Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!

[Metalcat]

I quit just over 5 years ago, but decided to drink a bit on my current trip.

I've been spending 2 weeks in Paris and Copenhagen, and am having an occasional Kir Royal here are there. Even these small <5oz drinks are able to cause almost immediate negative impact on my system. It's wild.

For the first several years of not drinking I was pretty convinced I would never drink again because it's so awful, but now I kind of like occasionally experimenting as it's like a booster reminding me why I don't generally do this. Lol.

I am very much looking forward to getting back home soon where mocktails are readily available and no one smokes at restaurants. The smoking is fucking killing me.

[Bobo629]

I quit just over 5 years ago, but decided to drink a bit on my current trip.

I've been spending 2 weeks in Paris and Copenhagen, and am having an occasional Kir Royal here are there. Even these small <5oz drinks are able to cause almost immediate negative impact on my system. It's wild.

For the first several years of not drinking I was pretty convinced I would never drink again because it's so awful, but now I kind of like occasionally experimenting as it's like a booster reminding me why I don't generally do this. Lol.

I am very much looking forward to getting back home soon where mocktails are readily available and no one smokes at restaurants. The smoking is fucking killing me.

I applaud your life changes and also your willingness to keep it where it should be, a once in a while thing. Avoiding alcohol is EASY for me. If I have even one beer it's a certainty that I will get a hangover the next morning. I don't know what it is, but it keeps me on the straight and narrow.

So they are smoking it up over there? Cigarettes or MJ? Not sure about Europe's stand on MJ. Or cigarettes, for that matter.

[Metalcat]

I quit just over 5 years ago, but decided to drink a bit on my current trip.

I've been spending 2 weeks in Paris and Copenhagen, and am having an occasional Kir Royal here are there. Even these small <5oz drinks are able to cause almost immediate negative impact on my system. It's wild.

For the first several years of not drinking I was pretty convinced I would never drink again because it's so awful, but now I kind of like occasionally experimenting as it's like a booster reminding me why I don't generally do this. Lol.

I am very much looking forward to getting back home soon where mocktails are readily available and no one smokes at restaurants. The smoking is fucking killing me.

I applaud your life changes and also your willingness to keep it where it should be, a once in a while thing. Avoiding alcohol is EASY for me. If I have even one beer it's a certainty that I will get a hangover the next morning. I don't know what it is, but it keeps me on the straight and narrow.

So they are smoking it up over there? Cigarettes or MJ? Not sure about Europe's stand on MJ. Or cigarettes, for that matter.

Cigarettes. Both Paris and Copenhagen are very heavy cigarette smoking cities, but marijuana is illegal. Which is interesting coming from Canada where smoking is prohibited in most areas, but marijuana is legal. I'm much more accustomed to smelling marijuana in and around my neighborhood rather than cigarettes.

Meanwhile here in Paris, even if smoking isn't allowed in an area, someone will be smoking. I basically can't escape it. Close to 30% of the population here smokes, it's wild.

[41_swish]

I have never ever understood cigarettes. I think they are truly disgusting. I am not European enough to comprehend.

[Metalcat]

I have never ever understood cigarettes. I think they are truly disgusting. I am not European enough to comprehend.

No one smokes because smoking is pleasant, they smoke because they started young because it was "cool" and then became quickly very addicted.

Once your brain is addicted to something, it will make that thing the most pleasurable experience in the world to get your hit, the drug itself doesn't actually need to be enjoyable.

It's one of the most common addiction misconceptions, that it's how enjoyable the substance is that determines how addictive it is. But that's simply not at all true. A substance being enjoyable makes it more likely for the person to use it enough to become addicted, but many substances are highly addictive without being overly enjoyable.

So there's nothing to understand about smoking other than the fact that it's socially popular enough for a lot of young people to smoke enough cigarettes to get addicted.

And that's the really insidious thing about cigarettes. They're not amazing and almost no one tries them and thinks "man, this is so good I could easily get addicted." It's the very fact that smoking isn't incredible that makes it so high risk for addiction, because it doesn't feel like something that you would become addicted to.

[Bobo629]

Mind blown.

90% of my previous generation family members smoked. Every weekend as a kid we gathered at grandpa's house where pinochle was played for 36 hours straight, everyone smoking, the dining room a dim, eye watering haze, seeping out to eventually engulf the rest of the house, and us kids having a life long imprint of smoking=disgusting stamped on our brains. My grandparents, aunts and uncles all smoked. None of the 30 cousins did.

My dad was such a jerk that he'd smoke like a chimney in the car, but not let anyone roll a window down. We suffered horribly as kids during car rides. Painful, but I could never get hooked in cigarettes. Other things, yes. But not those.

[Metalcat]

Mind blown.

90% of my previous generation family members smoked. Every weekend as a kid we gathered at grandpa's house where pinochle was played for 36 hours straight, everyone smoking, the dining room a dim, eye watering haze, seeping out to eventually engulf the rest of the house, and us kids having a life long imprint of smoking=disgusting stamped on our brains. My grandparents, aunts and uncles all smoked. None of the 30 cousins did.

My dad was such a jerk that he'd smoke like a chimney in the car, but not let anyone roll a window down. We suffered horribly as kids during car rides. Painful, but I could never get hooked in cigarettes. Other things, yes. But not those.

The only reason you "can't" get hooked on cigarettes is because you refuse to smoke them. If you smoked enough of them, you would become hopelessly addicted.

Btw, my childhood was similar and I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, which is why I'll never become addicted to them, the same way I'll never become addicted to cocaine, which was also rampant in my childhood. I'll just never ever try it.

But if I smoked enough cigarettes and snorted enough coke, I would become addicted to both. Whether I enjoyed them or not, whether I was disgusted by them or not wouldn't be relevant.

The brain becomes addicted to addictive things with enough exposure whether you enjoy the experience or hate it. How you feel about the substance is irrelevant to how readily your brain would become addicted to it.

[Weisass]

Mind blown.

90% of my previous generation family members smoked. Every weekend as a kid we gathered at grandpa's house where pinochle was played for 36 hours straight, everyone smoking, the dining room a dim, eye watering haze, seeping out to eventually engulf the rest of the house, and us kids having a life long imprint of smoking=disgusting stamped on our brains. My grandparents, aunts and uncles all smoked. None of the 30 cousins did.

My dad was such a jerk that he'd smoke like a chimney in the car, but not let anyone roll a window down. We suffered horribly as kids during car rides. Painful, but I could never get hooked in cigarettes. Other things, yes. But not those.

I am suddenly much more grateful for my parents not smoking.

[GuitarStv]

Mind blown.

90% of my previous generation family members smoked. Every weekend as a kid we gathered at grandpa's house where pinochle was played for 36 hours straight, everyone smoking, the dining room a dim, eye watering haze, seeping out to eventually engulf the rest of the house, and us kids having a life long imprint of smoking=disgusting stamped on our brains. My grandparents, aunts and uncles all smoked. None of the 30 cousins did.

My dad was such a jerk that he'd smoke like a chimney in the car, but not let anyone roll a window down. We suffered horribly as kids during car rides. Painful, but I could never get hooked in cigarettes. Other things, yes. But not those.

I am suddenly much more grateful for my parents not smoking.

My grandparents on my mom's side smoked like chimneys.  When we were kids and over for Christmas one time we made gingerbread houses.  Fresh gingerbread, snow white icing.  Looked awesome when they were done.  And the next morning all the icing was yellow/brown.  :(

[rosarugosa]

And the starting young part is key, because most adults have enough sense not to start such a pointless habit. 

I started smoking at age 15, and it was hard, made me cough, eyes water, etc. but I persevered!  I was heavily addicted and smoked for 38 years before giving it up 13 years ago.  You couldn't pay me enough to smoke a cigarette today, and I think back on all those years as though I was under some sort of evil spell.

There's nothing rational about addiction, but that doesn't mean it isn't powerful.

[Metalcat]

And the starting young part is key, because most adults have enough sense not to start such a pointless habit. 

I started smoking at age 15, and it was hard, made me cough, eyes water, etc. but I persevered!  I was heavily addicted and smoked for 38 years before giving it up 13 years ago.  You couldn't pay me enough to smoke a cigarette today, and I think back on all those years as though I was under some sort of evil spell.

There's nothing rational about addiction, but that doesn't mean it isn't powerful.

Nice sentiment, but 1000% inaccurate.

There are plenty of obviously addictive, self-destructive habits that begin in adult years.

I've spoken to many cocaine addicts who never even tried coke until their 30s. Cigarettes are an addiction of youth because it's in youth when smoking is socially most cool. Cocaine is often a drug that some people don't even encounter until they're educated and in high paying jobs where it becomes the socially cool thing.

Likewise, I never drank much until I dated older men who were "really into wine" aka classy alcoholics. Then because it was socially cool, I drank enough for my brain to get addicted to something I didn't particularly enjoy and I HATED getting drunk. And yet, I was exposed enough to develop a strong addiction.

As I said before, it's actually the lack of incredible feeling from these substances that makes the process so insidious.

I didn't particularly like wine and I hated getting drunk, and I come from a wine loving family, so I felt no need to be cautious with my consumption and no need to monitor for signs of addiction. But just a handful of years later and I absolutely "loved" wine and leaned on it to unwind whenever I felt overwhelmed.

Kids smoke/vape and it feels so benign that they feel zero need to be cautious, and then they're quickly addicted.

Highly educated professionals in fast-paced jobs in their 30s feel peer pressured to try cocaine to keep up with the work/party pace, and it feels like no big deal, so despite knowing it's insanely addictive, they don't think they're at risk because it doesn't feel amazing to them, so they assume it's less addictive to them, and then they do enough lines to get hooked and without even noticing it, it becomes their favourite thing in the world to do.

Likewise, I've worked with chronic pain for years. A LOT of folks get completely caught off guard by opioid addiction because they expect to get really high off the drugs, but a lot of people don't. I barely notice morphine or Dilaudid when I take them. I react much more strongly to synthetic opioids rather than opiates.

If you give me tramadol, which is about the weakest opioid there is, I will get really fucking high, but if you give me morphine, I'll barely notice. If I didn't understand addiction, I would think the tramadol would be more addictive because I like it a hell of a lot more. But if given equal amounts, the morphine would be much, much more addictive.

I actually know this for a fact because I was on dilaudid for a few weeks years ago and quitting was a bitch, but was on tramadol for nearly half of 2023 and had no issues tapering off with only mild cravings.

Then there's the neurological mechanism that the faster something resolves a craving, the more addictive it is. This is part of why cigarettes and cocaine are so incredibly addictive.

This is why it frequently takes very little exposure for cigarette or cocaine addiction to kick in, but if you talk to alcohol addicts, they were often able to drink moderately for years before significant addiction kicked in.

For me, I started drinking in my teens and never really liked it. Then I dated a "wine lovers" in my 20s and developed a taste for wine, but still maintained a very modest habit, and then 5ish years later significant signs of addiction showed and paired with extreme, sustained, daily stress/pain ended up with a self-medication problem.

Unfortunately, we're socially conditioned to see addiction as a character flaw, which is ridiculous since addiction is just the brain working exactly the way it's supposed to. And the main reason people succumb to addiction is because they don't feel like there's much risk of becoming addicted to whatever they're doing because it doesn't feel overwhelmingly good to them, which makes it feel low risk.

But that feeling that it's low risk is exactly why addiction is so insidious, because despite KNOWING these things are addictive, they don't feel "weak" while using them, meaning they smoke/drink/snort/swallow pills, and don't feel strong urges to do so, so they think "oh, I won't get addicted, I'm not a weak-willed person who loves snorting lines, I just do it casually with my boss to fit in."

If people better understood addiction and it's mechanisms, they would know to be more wary of engaging in addictive behaviours that feel benign, because it's when they feel benign that we're most at risk of becoming addicted.

The highest I've ever been is on Demerol. I knew from the first hit that I should be careful with Demerol, but because I didn't get at all high from Dilaudid, I didn't worry about it. Guess which one I wasn't careful with and developed addiction to??

It was a very brief addiction, but it was fast and caught me completely off guard. That experience was also the impetus for me wanting to better understand addiction. I come from a family of addicts, many of whom have died of addictions.

And I've been extremely cautious about addictive things my entire life, which is why I quickly noticed the opiate addiction after surgery, even though that was back in the opiate over-prescribing days and my surgeon insisted that I couldn't get addicted if I had legitimate pain and tried to prescribe me more! Ugh, such bullshit.

Anyhoo, the only things I've ever developed addiction to were the things I couldn't develop addiction to. Go fucking figure.

I thought I would never become addicted to Dilaudid because it does nothing for me. I thought I would never become addicted to alcohol because I never liked it and always despised the sensation of getting drunk.

Only *some* addictive things feel addictive at the beginning. Many of them feel pretty benign and low risk. And it's this lack of understanding the mechanisms of addiction that leaves people so vulnerable to it.

[2Birds1Stone]

Idk, a post coital smoke can be pretty enjoyable........but not nearly as enjoyable as a post Epicurean feasting.

I smoked off and on for over a decade. It's been well over a decade since it's been a regular thing, but a once in a blue moon smoke can still be very enjoyable under the right circumstances. YMMV.

[Metalcat]

Idk, a post coital smoke can be pretty enjoyable........but not nearly as enjoyable as a post Epicurean feasting.

I smoked off and on for over a decade. It's been well over a decade since it's been a regular thing, but a once in a blue moon smoke can still be very enjoyable under the right circumstances. YMMV.

If you smoked on and off for a decade, you have enough brain reward for it to be quite enjoyable, especially if paired with already enjoyable activities.

But even then, you're not describing an experience that is blissful enough for the average person to try it their first time and think "fuck yeah, this is so amazing I can see why it ravages people's brains with powerful addiction to the point that people with COPD will stand outside of hospitals in -40C/F smoking themselves literally to death, because it's obviously worth it it's that great!"

It's just not that great until the person is addicted to it, and then yeah, it's that great, because the brain will make anything you are addicted to THAT GREAT.

That said, if you can start and stop cigarettes, it doesn't sound like you developed an extreme level of addiction, although I could be misinterpreting, but smoking for you may not be as blissful as it is for the dying COPD patient. Because the level of enjoyment a person gets from a substance is directly caused by how addicted they are to it.