Author Topic: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America  (Read 71115 times)

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #450 on: January 12, 2022, 09:24:28 AM »
I would appreciate it if OP shared his troubles with finding a job after a short FIRE.  I retired knowing if the market went to shit, I could always go back to work.  BUT, I also knew after about a year, I would not be able to re-enter my career at the same level and might have trouble finding any job in that industry.  (Especially true, now that I speak out against the industry.)

IF the ACA was repealed and nothing replaced it, I would probably have to find a job with benefits or move to a state with a public plan.  I feel it is unlikely now, but 12 years is a long time, and that's assuming Medicare stays as is.

Just wanted to add, I had carefully considered this, before FIRE.  As does just about everybody who posts here!

I believe that employers select away from those they deem to be financially independent. They prefer employees who will hold onto their jobs as if it was a lifeline. Returning after a long absence is usually difficult. Employers are doubtful of a person's ability to restore the yoke of employment oppression. In my resume, I do not share that I am self-employed.

matchewed

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #451 on: January 12, 2022, 09:37:25 AM »
Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.


Well for one thing FIRE != minimalism. Your FIRE can be minimalistic but it does not have to be. FIRE also doesn't have to be some weird cocoon that you envelope yourself in but can be the leaving of a chrysalis.

So you had a tightly constrained system when you FIRE'd and it did not succeed. Surprise surprise. Having a tightly constrained system means you have no flexibility. Rigidity is the enemy of adjusting to external variability.

Also you have an unhealthy perspective of what marriage and children affect an individual's life. When you say you lost control, control of what exactly?

Moustachienne

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #452 on: January 12, 2022, 09:50:20 AM »
Well, you weren't really FIRE if we understand the term to mean covering your desired expenses without external income. You covered your bare bones expenses.  But you weren't close to covering the expenses of the fuller life you came to desire; spouse, children, friends, travel.  Imagine a full life (whatever that means for you), understand what it will take to finance that life, and conduct yourself accordingly.  It does seem that you had a very limited imagination in your 20's, which isn't unusual, as to what would really make you happy in life.  You certainly had the "living in a van down by the river" lifestyle nailed down! :)  Maybe you should go knocking on those van doors to pass your warning message on to the young'uns inside.*  On this Forum, most of us are living a richly satisfying FIRE life.

* not really kidding. It is important to learn to take a long view and not close off opportunities. Although your characterization of the alternative to the van isn't that appealing. "horror" "discomfort" "oppression" - and that's just in the most recent posts.

Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.

sui generis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #453 on: January 12, 2022, 09:52:16 AM »
Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.

(to the bolded) No.  No it isn't, and doesn't have to be.  You did it wrong.  That's all there is to it.  You made yourself miserable in your "FIRE" and you didn't have to.  You could have had friends and dated people and had a rich and varied and fun social life (and I'm only tackling one angle of your miserable "FIRE" here) and you did not because of your own actions.  Whether it was due to lack of imagination or lack of effort, I don't know. 

But I'm going to reiterate something here that is a common theme on this thread: Learn to use "I statements" for chrissakes.  The things you learned or experienced are not objective truths.  They are your experience that you created and are often the opposite of what's true for the vast majority of people here on this forum.  We are not arguing with you about what your experience has been or your right to share that experience.  But we will argue with you about making statements like the bolded above that are framed as objective facts that apply to everyone, when they are not at all so.  We also have the same right to point out how your experience may be uncommon or have been the result of your own faulty decisions that could be avoided by XYZ (which does postentially serve as learning tools for future FIREes that are reading these boards).

Social lives can be very rich without spending lots of money because humans crave connection and don't need money to facilitate it.  You just have to be the tiniest bit creative.  I'm sorry you were unable to do that in your life, but don't blame it on FIRE.  The blame lies squarely with the beliefs you held and decisions you made.

DaMa

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #454 on: January 12, 2022, 10:05:14 AM »
I wouldn't call what you did FIRE.  I'd call it an experiment. 

In my run up to FIRE, I cut my expenses as far as I could to see how low I could go and still be happy.  When I wasn't happy, I knew it was too low.  I spent 8 years exploring this - experimenting.  Then I considered what I would want to add in retirement.  For me this was travel, buy a home vs. rent, and saving for grandkids college.  (Here's where you would add marriage and children.)  That's how I got to my FIRE number.

I also explored ways to spend time with family and friends that didn't cost much.  We play games (board and video) and have potluck brunches and dinners.  I meet people at parks to go for walks.  We get together and do our hobbies (sewing and knitting for me).  I joined in some community activities, like a library book club.  I did more of this after I retired, not less, because I had more free time.

You didn't escape FIRE.  You found that your properties didn't provide enough income to support the life you wanted.  You weren't even at FI.  Great job trying it out, though!  You know you can survive a job cut.  I'd say you were at FU money.  Which is a great accomplishment at only 25.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #455 on: January 12, 2022, 10:08:36 AM »
Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.


Well for one thing FIRE != minimalism. Your FIRE can be minimalistic but it does not have to be. FIRE also doesn't have to be some weird cocoon that you envelope yourself in but can be the leaving of a chrysalis.

So you had a tightly constrained system when you FIRE'd and it did not succeed. Surprise surprise. Having a tightly constrained system means you have no flexibility. Rigidity is the enemy of adjusting to external variability.

Also you have an unhealthy perspective of what marriage and children affect an individual's life. When you say you lost control, control of what exactly?

Hi,

The article is a story about my first experience with FIRE as a single 25-year-old. I have a second part in development about my current FIRE experience that is different.

 In regards to children, we have six kids. As you probably know, inviting others into your FIRE calculations means having to accommodate the unpredictable needs of others. I can control myself, but I can not create priorities for others. Effective minimalism means a careful selection of priorities. More people means more priorities to consider. Additionally, every person comes with a spectrum of events that can happen to them. Often these events are not good. Other events are good but come with an unplanned expense.  More people = a greater spectrum of possible needs.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #456 on: January 12, 2022, 10:16:49 AM »
I wouldn't call what you did FIRE.  I'd call it an experiment. 

In my run up to FIRE, I cut my expenses as far as I could to see how low I could go and still be happy.  When I wasn't happy, I knew it was too low.  I spent 8 years exploring this - experimenting.  Then I considered what I would want to add in retirement.  For me this was travel, buy a home vs. rent, and saving for grandkids college.  (Here's where you would add marriage and children.)  That's how I got to my FIRE number.

I also explored ways to spend time with family and friends that didn't cost much.  We play games (board and video) and have potluck brunches and dinners.  I meet people at parks to go for walks.  We get together and do our hobbies (sewing and knitting for me).  I joined in some community activities, like a library book club.  I did more of this after I retired, not less, because I had more free time.

You didn't escape FIRE.  You found that your properties didn't provide enough income to support the life you wanted.  You weren't even at FI.  Great job trying it out, though!  You know you can survive a job cut.  I'd say you were at FU money.  Which is a great accomplishment at only 25.

I have to disagree. My early FIRE experience easily met every criterion of being Financially Independent and Retiring Early.  I do agree that it was a thin existence, however, plenty of people here are proposing something horribly similar without the same acknowledgment. My point is similar to yours. FIRE needs to also include the possibility of an active life. Many here seem confident that if they can accumulate a small pile of nuts and eke out a minimalistic existence they can live a FIRE life that is unrealistic, unlikely, and unhealthy. It is the point that I am trying to make.

Financial Independence is great. However, the prospect of Retiring Early on a bare minimum is not a good life. It's not a life at all.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 10:22:07 AM by Skyhigh »

nereo

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #457 on: January 12, 2022, 10:33:42 AM »
I wouldn't call what you did FIRE.  I'd call it an experiment. 

In my run up to FIRE, I cut my expenses as far as I could to see how low I could go and still be happy.  When I wasn't happy, I knew it was too low.  I spent 8 years exploring this - experimenting.  Then I considered what I would want to add in retirement.  For me this was travel, buy a home vs. rent, and saving for grandkids college.  (Here's where you would add marriage and children.)  That's how I got to my FIRE number.

I also explored ways to spend time with family and friends that didn't cost much.  We play games (board and video) and have potluck brunches and dinners.  I meet people at parks to go for walks.  We get together and do our hobbies (sewing and knitting for me).  I joined in some community activities, like a library book club.  I did more of this after I retired, not less, because I had more free time.

You didn't escape FIRE.  You found that your properties didn't provide enough income to support the life you wanted.  You weren't even at FI.  Great job trying it out, though!  You know you can survive a job cut.  I'd say you were at FU money.  Which is a great accomplishment at only 25.

I have to disagree. My early FIRE experience easily met every criterion of being Financially Independent and Retiring Early.  I do agree that it was a thin existence, however, plenty of people here are proposing something horribly similar without the same acknowledgment. My point is similar to yours. FIRE needs to also include the possibility of an active life. Many here seem confident that if they can accumulate a small pile of nuts and eke out a minimalistic existence they can live a FIRE life that is unrealistic, unlikely, and unhealthy. It is the point that I am trying to make.

Financial Independence is great. However, the prospect of Retiring Early on a bare minimum is not a good life. It's not a life at all.
[/quote

This is exactly why people are saying you failed to be FIRE - you didn't meet your own criteria for a happy, healthy lifestyle post employment. You did not have sufficient Financial resources, nor did you design your life in such a way to have flexibility or layers of safety.

It is apparent that you made a laundry-list of avoidable failures in your attempt to be FIRE.  It's no wonder you came out of the experience with negative feelings.  It is a shame you did not find and absorb the lessons and information provided by this forum earlier, as it could have saved you a great deal of trouble and discomfort.  then again, you do not seem at all interested in learning from this forum currently, so I'm not sure what difference it would make.

alm0stk00l

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #458 on: January 12, 2022, 10:38:40 AM »
I wouldn't call what you did FIRE.  I'd call it an experiment. 

In my run up to FIRE, I cut my expenses as far as I could to see how low I could go and still be happy.  When I wasn't happy, I knew it was too low.  I spent 8 years exploring this - experimenting.  Then I considered what I would want to add in retirement.  For me this was travel, buy a home vs. rent, and saving for grandkids college.  (Here's where you would add marriage and children.)  That's how I got to my FIRE number.

I also explored ways to spend time with family and friends that didn't cost much.  We play games (board and video) and have potluck brunches and dinners.  I meet people at parks to go for walks.  We get together and do our hobbies (sewing and knitting for me).  I joined in some community activities, like a library book club.  I did more of this after I retired, not less, because I had more free time.

You didn't escape FIRE.  You found that your properties didn't provide enough income to support the life you wanted.  You weren't even at FI.  Great job trying it out, though!  You know you can survive a job cut.  I'd say you were at FU money.  Which is a great accomplishment at only 25.

I have to disagree. My early FIRE experience easily met every criterion of being Financially Independent and Retiring Early.  I do agree that it was a thin existence, however, plenty of people here are proposing something horribly similar without the same acknowledgment. My point is similar to yours. FIRE needs to also include the possibility of an active life. Many here seem confident that if they can accumulate a small pile of nuts and eke out a minimalistic existence they can live a FIRE life that is unrealistic, unlikely, and unhealthy. It is the point that I am trying to make.

Financial Independence is great. However, the prospect of Retiring Early on a bare minimum is not a good life. It's not a life at all.

Ahh... I get it now. The point you are trying to make is that you can determine what the minimum is for other people and tell them it is too small to be happy. And you can tell people that being minimalistic is not possible and they will need more stuff in their life to be happy.

Could you succinctly provide a structure for the proper way to retire? Exactly how much money is enough? What is the exact correct age for every person? What is the minimum sq. ft. of home required to be happy? How many dress shirts must you own to make you smile?

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #459 on: January 12, 2022, 10:46:20 AM »
Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.

(to the bolded) No.  No it isn't, and doesn't have to be.  You did it wrong.  That's all there is to it.  You made yourself miserable in your "FIRE" and you didn't have to.  You could have had friends and dated people and had a rich and varied and fun social life (and I'm only tackling one angle of your miserable "FIRE" here) and you did not because of your own actions.  Whether it was due to lack of imagination or lack of effort, I don't know. 

But I'm going to reiterate something here that is a common theme on this thread: Learn to use "I statements" for chrissakes.  The things you learned or experienced are not objective truths.  They are your experience that you created and are often the opposite of what's true for the vast majority of people here on this forum.  We are not arguing with you about what your experience has been or your right to share that experience.  But we will argue with you about making statements like the bolded above that are framed as objective facts that apply to everyone, when they are not at all so.  We also have the same right to point out how your experience may be uncommon or have been the result of your own faulty decisions that could be avoided by XYZ (which does postentially serve as learning tools for future FIREes that are reading these boards).

Social lives can be very rich without spending lots of money because humans crave connection and don't need money to facilitate it.  You just have to be the tiniest bit creative.  I'm sorry you were unable to do that in your life, but don't blame it on FIRE.  The blame lies squarely with the beliefs you held and decisions you made.

I am not blaming anyone else, but am sharing my experiences. I understand that old-timers can meet at McDonald's for their 5 am coffee visit. My point is that retiring early is harmful to younger people. Younger people still like to do things. They go on trips, out to dinner, they engage in expensive hobbies. Some are content with limiting their social contact to exchanging memes on FaceBook, however, most like to do active things.

Dating is difficult in itself without having to restrict it to those who share similar minimalist goals. Good luck.


sui generis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #460 on: January 12, 2022, 10:57:01 AM »
Post-FIRE

My first full experience with FIRE came by accident in my early to mid-20s. By that time in my life, I had suffered my first professional setback and a minor real estate gain. I used my humble proceeds to purchase a four-plex that I lived in. Realizing that my career prospects were slim I set to work slashing my budget down to a meager amount. Minimalism became a great hobby of mine as I combed through my expenses finding every little place I could cut. Eventually, I got my financial requirements down to around a few hundred dollars a month. I mowed the lawn at the building myself, conducted repairs, and managed it.

I also began to cut back on my social life. Associating with others is expensive. Going skiing and out to dinner is hugely destructive to a minimalist lifestyle. Dating also is a very costly and risky endeavor. I narrowed my social life down to a few people that lived within a few blocks and had a similar hermit lifestyle such as myself. The good news is that my plan worked. The rent covered my housing costs. My savings extended my ability to remain minimally employed for many years. Soon rent increases eclipsed the building expenses by a considerable margin. The surplus reached a point where I could extend my savings out into Infinity. Without even thinking about it I had reached a point where I didn't have to work a job ever again. I achieved FIRE at 25 years of age.

My life in FIRE was very safe. I had my expenses and activities whittled down to the bare minimum. Most days I slept until I naturally woke. I watched the morning news, read for a while, and wrote in my journal. I had a subscription to the newspaper so that I could clip coupons and buy macaroni and cheese for $0.35 a box. I sold my newer truck long prior and would ride my bicycle around town since I didn't need to get anywhere quickly. I lived alone and didn't need to carry a huge pile of groceries. The two small saddlebags on my bike could carry supplies to last for several weeks.

Time went by in this manner. The highlights of my week were usually going to the variety store on Tuesdays to survey the surprise sales followed by stopping at the library on my way back to check out new books and movies. This is how my life was living FIRE and it was ending one day at a time. Market conditions began to improve in my profession and opportunities slowly returned. The day came when I received an unsolicited phone call promoting a job offer. I had two days to think about it.

Around that time the realities of my FIRE lifestyle had made themselves painfully apparent. Without even trying I could see the decades of my life unfolding in a very predictable manner. To maintain a safe and comfortable FIRE lifestyle it is urgent to shun new and uncontrollable things in your life. Embarking on a new relationship that could lead to a spouse is akin to dropping a bomb into the middle of a minimalist's well-oiled financial machine. To entertain a relationship prospect that held the possibility of developing into a spouse you also must be prepared to surrender at least half of your control. Later I learned that I was mistaken. When people marry and have children you end up losing all control.

During those two days, I carefully evaluated the paths that lay before me. I could either remain in my humble secure existence of nothingness or hurl myself into the current of life with the full knowledge of what I would be giving up. As you may have already guessed I ended up leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.

(to the bolded) No.  No it isn't, and doesn't have to be.  You did it wrong.  That's all there is to it.  You made yourself miserable in your "FIRE" and you didn't have to.  You could have had friends and dated people and had a rich and varied and fun social life (and I'm only tackling one angle of your miserable "FIRE" here) and you did not because of your own actions.  Whether it was due to lack of imagination or lack of effort, I don't know. 

But I'm going to reiterate something here that is a common theme on this thread: Learn to use "I statements" for chrissakes.  The things you learned or experienced are not objective truths.  They are your experience that you created and are often the opposite of what's true for the vast majority of people here on this forum.  We are not arguing with you about what your experience has been or your right to share that experience.  But we will argue with you about making statements like the bolded above that are framed as objective facts that apply to everyone, when they are not at all so.  We also have the same right to point out how your experience may be uncommon or have been the result of your own faulty decisions that could be avoided by XYZ (which does postentially serve as learning tools for future FIREes that are reading these boards).

Social lives can be very rich without spending lots of money because humans crave connection and don't need money to facilitate it.  You just have to be the tiniest bit creative.  I'm sorry you were unable to do that in your life, but don't blame it on FIRE.  The blame lies squarely with the beliefs you held and decisions you made.

I am not blaming anyone else, but am sharing my experiences. I understand that old-timers can meet at McDonald's for their 5 am coffee visit. My point is that retiring early is harmful to younger people. Younger people still like to do things. They go on trips, out to dinner, they engage in expensive hobbies. Some are content with limiting their social contact to exchanging memes on FaceBook, however, most like to do active things.

Dating is difficult in itself without having to restrict it to those who share similar minimalist goals. Good luck.

You still have a jaw-dropping lack of imagination about meaningful and fulfilling social interactions without spending money. You act like doing "active things" is synonymous with spending money and it just isn't.  In fact some of the most active things people can do (in the literal sense of either intellectually or physically active) are completely free.  And buying coffee at McDonald's every day would get expensive, so it just shows how limited your imagination is.

Orrrrr.....as others have suggested and surmised, you are just a total troll.  I really found myself agreeing with this assessment for most of the recent few weeks of posts and then I forgot and replied.  Sigh.  Point to you, skyhigh. 

As much as it's hard to look away from a train wreck, I think it's my time to hit the unnotify button on this one.

charis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #461 on: January 12, 2022, 11:40:42 AM »
You can be active, travel, have kids, and all that in FiRE if you plan for it - which you did not.  If you didn't have enough money for a fulfilling lifestyle with your family, you failed at FIRE because you didn't plan appropriately. People on this forum track their current level of spending and account for extra retirement costs like travel and health care, etc. You didn't do that.

This isn't an us (FIRE community) problem, it's a you problem.

ysette9

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #462 on: January 12, 2022, 11:47:52 AM »
Maybe OP thought he wandered in on the Early Retirement Extreme forum where everyone is spending $20k/year in FIRE? If your lifestyle is too barebones for your own happiness then sure, I can see earning people against that. But making the leap from his experience in his 20s to somehow all of us are leading bare, restricted, narrow lives is a huge leap of faith with zero evidence to support.

Some of us spend very little. Some spend a ton. Plenty spend somewhere in between. It isn’t so important how much we spend but that we do so thoughtfully and on the things in life that being us joy. Figure out whatever that costs for your unique situation and stop working once you have sufficient nuts to fund that lifestyle. Or a bit more if you think your tastes will change a bit over time.

Sheesh. This isn’t that hard.

boarder42

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #463 on: January 12, 2022, 12:05:37 PM »
You can be active, travel, have kids, and all that in FiRE if you plan for it - which you did not.  If you didn't have enough money for a fulfilling lifestyle with your family, you failed at FIRE because you didn't plan appropriately. People on this forum track their current level of spending and account for extra retirement costs like travel and health care, etc. You didn't do that.

This isn't an us (FIRE community) problem, it's a you problem.

holy shit you just described my plans throw in a boat and wakesurfing and you're there!

nereo

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #464 on: January 12, 2022, 01:06:05 PM »
You can be active, travel, have kids, and all that in FiRE if you plan for it - which you did not.  If you didn't have enough money for a fulfilling lifestyle with your family, you failed at FIRE because you didn't plan appropriately. People on this forum track their current level of spending and account for extra retirement costs like travel and health care, etc. You didn't do that.

This isn't an us (FIRE community) problem, it's a you problem.

holy shit you just described my plans throw in a boat and wakesurfing and you're there!

IIRC our own @arebelspy FIREd, is active, has traveled extensively and has three kids. All of this from a sub-median salary as a teacher. Despite (or perhaps "because") of being FIRED and active and travel and having kids I believe his NW has only grown over the last six years.

herbgeek

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #465 on: January 12, 2022, 01:36:26 PM »
Quote
Many here seem confident that if they can accumulate a small pile of nuts and eke out a minimalistic existence they can live a FIRE life that is unrealistic, unlikely, and unhealthy.

And no one here is saying that but you.  There is no one posting who spends the bare minimum, makes pennies scream and lives this miserable existence.   Its a ridiculous straw man argument that you then knock down, as you've done many times in this thread.   

I have a significant travel budget, a personal indulgences allowance, eat and drink very well, take classes, do various activities with friends, donate to causes I care about, volunteer.  I planned my retirement to have enough to engage in activities I find of value, as well as extra money for serendipity.   Most posters have mentioned hobbies and are actively engaged in life. 

You keep inferring we are all miserable and should do things your way-- and then you say things like
Quote
leaving my safe static cocoon of FIRE in trade for the horror and discomfort of a courageous unrestrained out of control life.
.  Yeah that sounds like a winning plan. 

Dude, ITS YOU.  You aren't happy, you will likely NEVER be happy.   Nothing to do with FIRE, everything to do with the choices you've made and continue to make. 


Dicey

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #466 on: January 13, 2022, 10:43:30 AM »
Doing post-FIRE well continues to require a certain amount of initiative, especially once your time is completely yours to manage. Maybe the OP just really isn't capable of it. There's no point in telling him he's wrong. The student clearly isn't ready.

It occurs to me that based on OP's replies, maybe the problem is he's reaching HIS definition of FIRE, but he's not breaking through to post-FIRE life. Too bad for him, because life is great on the other side. Who even thinks about work any more, let alone laments it?

DaTrill

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #467 on: January 13, 2022, 01:42:00 PM »


Kris,

It seems that I don't agree with that others here are posting. It is possible that I am trying to help them to understand the hazards of early retirement.

HOLY FUCK no way man

Why didnt you state that as the thread title?  I had no idea your goals were to bash how bad FIRE was.  Maybe you should work on your delivery because this came across to me as you being very very pro FIRE through posting movies that timed out to radically successful FIRE stories.

People disagree on the internet? 

Maybe start a "Work-tell-you-die" cult proclaiming happiness comes from new stuff and debt, other than Facebook. 

lhamo

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #468 on: January 13, 2022, 03:05:12 PM »
I just had a fantastic morning where all I spent  was some time and energy.

A old work colleague who became a good friend reached out last week.  He wanted my address and also asked if I was free for a chat sometime.  We booked the call for today and in  the meantime I received his note in the mail -- he and his wife are expecting their first baby!

Today the clouds lifted so I decided to do a long walk around my beautiful neighborhood while we chatted.  We hadn't talked in several months, so there was lots to catch up with on both sides.  It was really great  to  reconnect.  As I was on the last leg home, I asked what kind of support network they had near them  for   when  the  baby comes.  Not  much, it  turns out -- they are near NYC and their families are scattered around the country.  So I let him know that if they need a hand at any point they should feel free to reach out -- I'd be happy to help them adjust to parenthood, or manage the transition to daycare, or whatever.  He then floated the idea of a trip to the NE together -- his dad lives in a very pretty part of the country and we could stay there while doing low key hikes with the baby in  a backpack and what not.  Sure!  I'm up for that.

We ended the call as I got home and I realized I had been walking for 90 minutes!  Went up several steep hills, too, so I got a really good workout.  And the call made it so pleasant.  Going to start working more catchup calls in with friends as I also meet my exercise/being outside goals for the year.

It was lunch time when I got home so I cooked up a great pot of soup using kale from my garden and chicken broth I made from the bones of a Costco roasted chicken last week.  Also threw in some chinese sausage that had been languishing in the fridge. It was really tasty and I have enough leftovers for several more bowls. 

The sun is still out so after I take out the garbage/composting I think I'll transplant some of the strawberries that I got to root from runners off of last year's plants.   I did spend a few bucks for a new variety, but it and the plants I got from a neighbor last year both spread so vigorously I will never have to buy strawberry plants again -- and I have plenty to give away to garden- and fruit-loving friends, which is another way I build community.

I'm just repeating the same message a lot of others have posted already:  a rich and rewarding life doesn't have to cost a ton of money.  Learn to cook well and you never have to set foot in a restaurant again once your friends try your food.


Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #469 on: January 14, 2022, 10:43:03 AM »
I was 37 years old the day I learned that my career was over. Two decades of continuous effort snuffed out with a single news report that my employer had ceased operations. At the time I'd reached a point where I was about to achieve my career objective position. At job fairs, prospective employers showed interest and I was starting to get interviews before the economy collapsed and my company folded.

At the time, my wife and I had two toddlers with one on the way. I clearly remember being terrified as I stared at my final paycheck and wondered what we were going to do next. Thankfully my side hustle had been the slow accumulation of 7 rental homes. At every stop on my career path, I would accumulate a house or two. When it was time to leave, I would rent them out and move on to my next position. They were spread along the west coast, and I managed them from afar. Now my access to free travel was extinguished and I had to make a change.

The real estate market was enjoying an upswing. I was able to quickly liquidate my distant investments and, using a 1031 tax exchange, reconstituted the equity into building lots back in my rural hometown. My family and I moved from the heart of urban life to where the cost of living was low and effectively created a new fighting position on familiar ground. The only other job skill I had accumulated in my life to that point was in the construction of single-family housing. Using that ability, I began to construct rental houses on the lots I purchased, and we were quickly on our way to a new life.

As the years went by, I was able to acquire or build three to five homes per year. I managed all parts of construction and conducted much of the labor myself. It was grueling manual labor however I was beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel before the collapse of 2008 occurred eliminating access to mortgages. Idled again by another economic downturn I began to hunt for new ways to make myself productive. Eventually, it occurred to me that the growing number of vacant homes would need professional property management. I was able to secure a designated real estate broker's license and opened my own property management business.

The first years were grueling. I went from being a physical laborer to one who had to manage people. These skills did not come instinctively to me. Emotional work is some of the most painful that I have experienced and by far the least fun. When starting a business, you don't get to pick and choose the fun parts. You are responsible for all the tasks to run the operation including those you are not well suited for. It wore me down emotionally and would seek refuge in the footwell of my desk on occasion so that people would think I had left. Eventually, I was able to begin hiring staff to help carry the load. Eight or more years ago, I had reached a point where I had hired and trained and hired enough people to be able to replace myself completely. I was free to return to my chosen profession and set to work hunting job opportunities.

Quickly I discovered that my stale resume had no value. Employers were not impressed by my recent years of manual labor. They were not interested in my business accomplishments either. I had to start completely over at an entry-level position in my field to restore my professional value. So, I began to climb the ladder anew and eventually worked my way into a good job at a professional level position that serves as a respected credential. Eventually, I was again experiencing positive feedback from prospective employers and even started to receive some interview invitations before covid hit.

The purpose here is to share my story of how I reached FIRE. Though I do receive paychecks, the last check I received as the sole support of my family was a very long time ago. The bulk of my financial support comes from passive and active sources. I am very thankful that my real estate efforts bore fruit. My family is much happier after my career imploded. We eventually grew to 6 children and have been able to live in a manner that we only dreamed of as a wage slave. My career had me on the road constantly. Now my wife has me close at hand every day. I am only a text away from picking up a kid at school for an orthodontist appointment or last-minute items at the store. Since being laid off long ago, I have been home nearly every night. I currently am employed full-time in a position in my chosen field however, it is not my career objective. Apart from that, I can do what I want most of the time except sleep-in since the kids must be at school. I still head into the office on days where I am not engaged with my profession and join in with whatever situation is at hand. Lately, we have been focused on snow removal. Life in FIRE is great. I could spend my days skiing but choose not to. 

I would like to make the point here that I do not have to work at all and have been in that situation for a very long time. Employment is my choice. Nothing in life is either all good or all bad. There are some considerable downsides to life after FIRE. It is the primary focus of my contributions to this thread.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #470 on: January 14, 2022, 10:48:26 AM »


Kris,

It seems that I don't agree with that others here are posting. It is possible that I am trying to help them to understand the hazards of early retirement.

HOLY FUCK no way man

Why didnt you state that as the thread title?  I had no idea your goals were to bash how bad FIRE was.  Maybe you should work on your delivery because this came across to me as you being very very pro FIRE through posting movies that timed out to radically successful FIRE stories.

The original intent of my thread was to learn from others how to break into the network of corporate employment and escape FIRE. It has since changed into a discussion about the downsides of FIRE life.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #471 on: January 14, 2022, 10:51:42 AM »
Many here like to use the 4% annual withdrawal example and assumptions to prove to themselves that the future will unfold as they expect. The common early retirement strategy is to accumulate a minimum pile of nuts as a hedge against future needs and minimally feed off the pile in a consistent predictable manner thereon.

To cease the effort of bringing financially new things in our lives also means the elimination of opportunity. These projections often require the assumption that nothing new of value will come into your life that could result in an increased consumption rate. No new relationships. No significant travel opportunities, No helping of others in need. No new hobbies. No new educational exploits. No more children.

To me that just seems so sad. Spending decades watching TV, taking walks in the park, and intentionally having to avoid new things is a grim prospect to me. Carefully doling out your monthly portion is no way to live. I spent a few years doing that and the negatives quickly become obvious. If someone is well past any of that I can see retirement as a welcomed situation, however, to sign off from opportunity at 35 years of age seems like a mistake.

The future could be better, and it could also be very much worse. No graph can predict the future of you.
All of that could apply whether you're working or not. But hey, you keep doing you. No one does it better.

I agree. No path is without its perils.

boarder42

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #472 on: January 14, 2022, 10:51:58 AM »


Kris,

It seems that I don't agree with that others here are posting. It is possible that I am trying to help them to understand the hazards of early retirement.

HOLY FUCK no way man

Why didnt you state that as the thread title?  I had no idea your goals were to bash how bad FIRE was.  Maybe you should work on your delivery because this came across to me as you being very very pro FIRE through posting movies that timed out to radically successful FIRE stories.

The original intent of my thread was to learn from others how to break into the network of corporate employment and escape FIRE. It has since changed into a discussion about the downsides of FIRE life.

It's sad you think this is a discussion. To be a discussion all parties have to read and evolve their statements based on other input. This is you posting the same boring fire bashing bullshit over and over and failing to discuss anything with anyone.  Now other people here are having discussions. You aren't.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #473 on: January 14, 2022, 11:26:19 AM »


Kris,

It seems that I don't agree with that others here are posting. It is possible that I am trying to help them to understand the hazards of early retirement.

HOLY FUCK no way man

Why didnt you state that as the thread title?  I had no idea your goals were to bash how bad FIRE was.  Maybe you should work on your delivery because this came across to me as you being very very pro FIRE through posting movies that timed out to radically successful FIRE stories.

The original intent of my thread was to learn from others how to break into the network of corporate employment and escape FIRE. It has since changed into a discussion about the downsides of FIRE life.

It's sad you think this is a discussion. To be a discussion all parties have to read and evolve their statements based on other input. This is you posting the same boring fire bashing bullshit over and over and failing to discuss anything with anyone.  Now other people here are having discussions. You aren't.

I read the comments. Many of them are simple attempts to deliver a predictable blow to my sacrilegious FIRE posts. Other comments are more interesting and I respond to them. I don't know much about you. It helps to know more about those with whom I am conversing. It seems unfair to enter a discussion with those who I do not know anything about because I believe that people experience FIRE differently based upon age, relationship status, and if they have children or not. I share a lot about my situation.

Many here seem to be single hermits who are more than happy to burrow deep into their one-bedroom apartments on a meager stipend and a cat. Others here do not seem to have any ambitions beyond merely existing. I don't understand those aspirations. Intelligent goal-oriented people need to be challenged. They require resources in order to pursue their dreams and interests. Boredom and a lack of purpose lead to depression. Those who are parents have an example to provide for their children. Every situation is unique, however, in my experience, a life of nothingness is not well received by most.

If my words do not apply to you at all then why care?

charis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #474 on: January 14, 2022, 11:30:56 AM »
lol, I see you've moved on to flat out lies

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #475 on: January 14, 2022, 11:41:06 AM »
I don't even try to find articles about the folly of early retirement. They are everywhere if you look. I am by no means alone in my position.

Yesterday the USA Today had an article titled "4-reasons-not-to-retire-in-your-50-s". In case you don't have access here is the summary: You might run out of money in your old age. No one here can accurately predict the future. I saw another opinion piece written by someone a few days ago who claimed that "so much of retirement planning is wishful thinking - - - what I've learned after 3 years of actually being retired".

If you look there are a lot of articles and advice pieces regarding the hazards of early retirement. It might be fun for now, but maybe not so much fun later long after you can do anything about it. The world is facing a retirement crisis. I can't understand how anyone who is of working age and ability can turn away from such an important source of support given the uncertainties we face.




Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #476 on: January 14, 2022, 11:42:21 AM »
lol, I see you've moved on to flat out lies

I am curious, what is the "lie" you are referring to?  If you are going to levy a statement like that then you should offer an explanation.

Dicey

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #477 on: January 14, 2022, 11:46:53 AM »
Some of us live in lovely large houses and do good work in our communities. Mostly what we are is a RESILIENT bunch.

We engage to provide a counterpoint to your bitterness toward FIRE. Greater good and all that.

jim555

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #478 on: January 14, 2022, 11:59:21 AM »
Two years on this thread.  Don't feed it.

DadJokes

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #479 on: January 14, 2022, 12:01:16 PM »
Y'all can just stop engaging with him at any time. It's quite clear that he's either a troll or completely incapable of processing new information that doesn't fit his distorted view of reality.

neo von retorch

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #480 on: January 14, 2022, 12:11:32 PM »
Many here seem to be single hermits who are more than happy to burrow deep into their one-bedroom apartments on a meager stipend and a cat. Others here do not seem to have any ambitions beyond merely existing.

Never met anyone on MMM that didn't fit this definition to a "t"!

Oh wait, actually, never met anyone on MMM that fit this definition. 🤔

This whole thread... is based on the juvenile game "opposite day!" We just have to wait for the long game to end, and SkyHigh will pull the rug out and yell "Psych!" Can't wait. I mean, I can wait. 😉

We should gather the list of assumptions being used in the hypothesis that "FIRE is bad for you."
  • Any time you are not employed, you are FIRE
  • FIRE reduces your choices
  • No one tries to FIRE with funds sufficient to meet their lifestyle choices, or future options
  • People FIRE with the bare minimum of funds to eat rice and beans (and to feed their only friend, their cat)
  • Respect of other people should be your top goal in retirement, and you cannot be respected without a long, ambitious career, and retirement after you turn 60
  • Learning from others is best achieved by ignoring anyone you make assumptions about, and those assumptions include "no one else is worth listening to."
  • The Word of FIRE is Gospel, and most MMM Forum Participants are blind but loyal zealots

charis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #481 on: January 14, 2022, 12:25:10 PM »
lol, I see you've moved on to flat out lies

I am curious, what is the "lie" you are referring to?  If you are going to levy a statement like that then you should offer an explanation.

Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?

ixtap

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #482 on: January 14, 2022, 12:30:06 PM »
Two years on this thread.  Don't feed it.

How else will we intentionally avoid new things?!?

jim555

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #483 on: January 14, 2022, 12:42:35 PM »
Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
This is cutting it kind of close for me, but no cat.

charis

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #484 on: January 14, 2022, 12:59:33 PM »
Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
This is cutting it kind of close for me, but no cat.

Have you tried clawing your way into the corporate world? I'd love to have a one-bedroom apartment, actually, but those darn kids of mine.

jim555

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #485 on: January 14, 2022, 01:04:28 PM »
Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
This is cutting it kind of close for me, but no cat.

Have you tried clawing your way into the corporate world? I'd love to have a one-bedroom apartment, actually, but those darn kids of mine.
It is a point of personal failure for me, can't get back to the 3 hour commutes, grinding meetings, and micro managing bosses.

Dicey

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #486 on: January 14, 2022, 01:19:29 PM »
Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
This is cutting it kind of close for me, but no cat.

Have you tried clawing your way into the corporate world? I'd love to have a one-bedroom apartment, actually, but those darn kids of mine.
It is a point of personal failure for me, can't get back to the 3 hour commutes, grinding meetings, and micro managing bosses.
We forgive you.

chasingthegoodlife

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #487 on: January 14, 2022, 03:45:56 PM »
Congratulations on finding a full time role in your chosen field. You mention it is not your career objective. Do you mean you are working towards a different role in your field? Would you feel comfortable sharing a bit more about what your ultimate goal position is? I am interested what this role involves that has been so difficult to replicate in a voluntary or self employed way. Sounds like you are closer to your goals than when you started this thread, which is great.

Out of curiosity, you mention you started your property management business in 2008 and it took some years to establish, and now you are working full time in a different role - which years have you had a break from working entirely?

To me, your story reads as someone who wasn’t able to continue working in their industry of choice due to an industry downturn and instead created two businesses of their own, before eventually breaking back into the industry they started in. From where I’m sitting, having that initial capital when you lost your job probably gave you more options (your laid off colleagues may have had to take less desirable or skilled jobs like admin or hospitality?) But it sounds as though you see having a fall back option delayed you from re-entering your preferred field because you didn’t NEED to?

To me that seems more a problem of having savings than of retiring  - by your own account you worked very hard to establish those businesses (I’m the daughter of a self made man who happily chooses to work for a wage - running a business us no joke!)

I get that some people might be more hungry for success when failure is ‘not an option’ but still I would choose to have savings if I got laid off, I think

ixtap

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #488 on: January 14, 2022, 04:12:28 PM »
lol, I see you've moved on to flat out lies

I am curious, what is the "lie" you are referring to?  If you are going to levy a statement like that then you should offer an explanation.

Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
I'm surprised he even gave us this much credit because I'd think this is would be an upgrade from van life. FatFIRE? I just don't know how even even gets this stuff from ANY of the forum threads. It's like, IDK, he hasn't read them.

I would prefer vanlife to holed up in an apartment life. Planning to try it after doing boatlife for a while.

Kris

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #489 on: January 14, 2022, 04:13:20 PM »
lol, I see you've moved on to flat out lies

I am curious, what is the "lie" you are referring to?  If you are going to levy a statement like that then you should offer an explanation.

Where are the many single hermits, holing up in their one-bedroom apartments with meager stipends and a cat, and ambition-less lumps that you've met on here? Is there like a thread or subboard where they are all hanging out?
I'm surprised he even gave us this much credit because I'd think this is would be an upgrade from van life. FatFIRE? I just don't know how even even gets this stuff from ANY of the forum threads. It's like, IDK, he hasn't read them.

I mean, he has proven in this thread to be remarkably capable of skipping over anything that challenges or refutes what he wants to believe. I guess that’s how he reads the rest of the forum as well?

ysette9

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Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #490 on: January 14, 2022, 08:59:18 PM »
I used to read the Post FIRE threads on breaks at work as inspiration. I would read journals like John Snow and just lose myself in daydreams of how wonderful it must be to not have to go into the office and deal with the stress and bullshit.

Thankfully I also had rewarding positions and also did cool things. I’m grateful for that opportunity. But I am also immensely grateful for this amazing gift I have that is FIRE. Sure, raising little kids can be tough and frustrating sometimes but overall life is awesome!

Today I walked my kid to school, then went on a little run that looped back to home, listening to the birds and admiring the foggy sunrise. I skipped the strength exercises this morning because I was feeling tired and instead showered and ate second breakfast. I then biked to the store to pick up a few things and caught up with a friend on video chat over her lunch break from work. A quick parent-teacher conference and then I was able to accommodate a last minute contractor stopping by to give us a quote on a kitchen remodel. I then tried out a new instant pot recipe for dinner while talking Roth conversions and capital gains taxes with my husband (sexy!). :) We had our usual dinner together as a family and put the kids to bed.

I’m going to send out an email and then read a book with a back massager on my shoulders.

Not a shabby life at all.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #491 on: January 14, 2022, 09:44:31 PM »
I used to read the Post FIRE threads on breaks at work as inspiration. I would read journals like John Snow and just lose myself in daydreams of how wonderful it must be to not have to go into the office and deal with the stress and bullshit.

Thankfully I also had rewarding positions and also did cool things. I’m grateful for that opportunity. But I am also immensely grateful for this amazing gift I have that is FIRE. Sure, raising little kids can be tough and frustrating sometimes but overall life is awesome!

Today I walked my kid to school, then went on a little run that looped back to home, listening to the birds and admiring the foggy sunrise. I skipped the strength exercises this morning because I was feeling tired and instead showered and ate second breakfast. I then biked to the store to pick up a few things and caught up with a friend on video chat over her lunch break from work. A quick parent-teacher conference and then I was able to accommodate a last minute contractor stopping by to give us a quote on a kitchen remodel. I then tried out a new instant pot recipe for dinner while talking Roth conversions and capital gains taxes with my husband (sexy!). :) We had our usual dinner together as a family and put the kids to bed.

I’m going to send out an email and then read a book with a back massager on my shoulders.

Not a shabby life at all.

Bullsh*t, @ysette9 - Your FIRE life is sad, miserable, lonely & you are WASTING yourself. Have you read none of this thread?! /s

It all sounds glorious to me! Living an intentional life that you planned for & are enjoying? Perfect.

Dicey

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #492 on: January 14, 2022, 10:18:10 PM »
I used to read the Post FIRE threads on breaks at work as inspiration. I would read journals like John Snow and just lose myself in daydreams of how wonderful it must be to not have to go into the office and deal with the stress and bullshit.

Thankfully I also had rewarding positions and also did cool things. I’m grateful for that opportunity. But I am also immensely grateful for this amazing gift I have that is FIRE. Sure, raising little kids can be tough and frustrating sometimes but overall life is awesome!

Today I walked my kid to school, then went on a little run that looped back to home, listening to the birds and admiring the foggy sunrise. I skipped the strength exercises this morning because I was feeling tired and instead showered and ate second breakfast. I then biked to the store to pick up a few things and caught up with a friend on video chat over her lunch break from work. A quick parent-teacher conference and then I was able to accommodate a last minute contractor stopping by to give us a quote on a kitchen remodel. I then tried out a new instant pot recipe for dinner while talking Roth conversions and capital gains taxes with my husband (sexy!). :) We had our usual dinner together as a family and put the kids to bed.

I’m going to send out an email and then read a book with a back massager on my shoulders.

Not a shabby life at all.
Remember how worried you were about All The Things before you pulled the plug? You must be doing something wrong now. /s

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #493 on: January 17, 2022, 09:47:13 AM »

Another great Retirement movie recommendation

(2015) The Intern - Robert De Nero and Anne Hathaway.

It is a story about an accomplished age-appropriate retiree who goes back to work in an entry-level position. In my opinion, it is a great movie about the benefits of maintaining a purpose and lifelong contribution.

boarder42

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #494 on: January 17, 2022, 09:50:03 AM »

Another great Retirement movie recommendation

(2015) The Intern - Robert De Nero and Anne Hathaway.

It is a story about an accomplished age-appropriate retiree who goes back to work in an entry-level position. In my opinion, it is a great movie about the benefits of maintaining a purpose and lifelong contribution.

way to totally engage in the conversation and not continue to just post random shit.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #495 on: January 17, 2022, 09:55:39 AM »
The Financial Samurai had an article on November the 20th of 2021 titled "The Negatives of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes to Talk About".  It truly is a review of everything that I have written about here. Sams does a much better job than me. Read the comments. It is like I wrote them myself. (I didn't)  My point is that my experiences and opinions are not unique.

Another great one from the FS blog is, "The Surprising Negatives of Living the FIRE Lifestyle".  There are many more out there. All it takes is a simple google search.

boarder42

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #496 on: January 17, 2022, 09:58:49 AM »
The Financial Samurai had an article on November the 20th of 2021 titled "The Negatives of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes to Talk About".  It truly is a review of everything that I have written about here. Sams does a much better job than me. Read the comments. It is like I wrote them myself. (I didn't)  My point is that my experiences and opinions are not unique.

Another great one from the FS blog is, "The Surprising Negatives of Living the FIRE Lifestyle".  There are many more out there. All it takes is a simple google search.

thats like saying voldemort around here that guy is just baiting for clickbait now.  But maybe you can go find companionship there?

Dicey

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #497 on: January 17, 2022, 10:01:55 AM »
The Financial Samurai had an article on November the 20th of 2021 titled "The Negatives of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes to Talk About".  It truly is a review of everything that I have written about here. Sams does a much better job than me. Read the comments. It is like I wrote them myself. (I didn't)  My point is that my experiences and opinions are not unique.

Another great one from the FS blog is, "The Surprising Negatives of Living the FIRE Lifestyle".  There are many more out there. All it takes is a simple google search.
Hmmm, maybe that's where you should be posting...

ysette9

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #498 on: January 17, 2022, 10:06:14 AM »
The Financial Samurai had an article on November the 20th of 2021 titled "The Negatives of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes to Talk About".  It truly is a review of everything that I have written about here. Sams does a much better job than me. Read the comments. It is like I wrote them myself. (I didn't)  My point is that my experiences and opinions are not unique.

Another great one from the FS blog is, "The Surprising Negatives of Living the FIRE Lifestyle".  There are many more out there. All it takes is a simple google search.

thats like saying voldemort around here that guy is just baiting for clickbait now.  But maybe you can go find companionship there?
Yeah, if you think Financial Samurai is going to receive a good reception around here you clearly mis-judged this forum.

Skyhigh

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Re: Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America
« Reply #499 on: January 17, 2022, 11:11:24 AM »

MMM and FS

From my perspective, MMM and Financial Samurai are the same. Neither of them is truly retired in the sense that they do nothing of a financial incentive with their time. It seems like many here consider Retirement as the act of becoming completely idle in regards to income-generating activities.

Both MMM and FS are aggressively working towards multiple income streams. They enjoy automomy of their time, however are both are very employed. MMM flips houses and was a RE broker for a time. They both have rental homes and self-manage them. They both work their blogs and occasionally make TV appearances to promote their websites.

I don't believe that they model the example of nothingness as a virtue yet many here are desperately clinging to it. In my professional life, I work the same processes as MMM and FS. Some here seem to want to paint me as the outsider, however, my belief is that my views are completely in line with MMM and FS.