Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America

[lhamo]

Here's another take on how to successfully blend being a pilot with a rental business from somebody who actually did both and enjoys it a lot:

https://millionairesunveiled.com/podcast/140-net-worth-of-2-2m-airline-pilot-who-didnt-make-100k-until-age-46/

[Mrs. Healthywealth]

Interesting topic. First thought that popped up, help rejecter and victim stance. This thread  really shows how depressive symptoms and help rejecting/complaining can impact our lives. Sometimes we get so use to a victim stance, becoming solution oriented and being able to see our lives outside of just the negative perspective can be challenging.

Don’t see this as an issue of being FIRE’d or not, the issues are valid for this individual regardless of whether they are RE or not. Hope OP seeks out a mental health professional to work with on the thoughts/emotions/behaviors. Dealing with this perspective for as many years as OP has been dealing with must be overwhelming and impacts everyone around that individual-kids and all.

Found this to explain this type of mentality: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201410/whats-the-best-way-deal-help-rejecting-complainers

Wish you the best of luck, and am not trying to be condescending in tone. Sincerely hope you gain some insight into how your own perspective is impacting your reality.

[Fru-Gal]

I was going to add a perspective on how people really don't want others to solve their problems, they want genuine empathetic recognition of the depth of them, but the article you just posted says it all SO WELL. Great points that I see applying to people I know, dealt a terrible hand years ago and can't transcend it (also this may be a form of PTSD).

To me the goal is to expand the self-efficacy/agency in one area of life to other areas where one may not be able to "get past" painful events. Almost everyone has at least one thing in life that they don't even question their efficacy at. Ironically, even if this is a "negative" (say, in my case, I know I can always enjoy delicious food but I also complain about my weight gain), there are people (say with GI problems, or an eating disorder) who would see eating whatever you want as a tremendous luxury. When you can finally observe your own latent agency and then use it to tackle other problems, that's powerful.

[Skyhigh]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts. 

[ysette9]

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

This is where you consistently trip up and get this fundamentally wrong. You may believe this is the case for yourself, though you don’t actually know because it sounds like you have never been FIREd yourself. We are here all together telling you that this is NOT a universal experience. It is wrong of you to continue insisting that it is in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

*** I hope you enjoyed your holidays.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

1) If you think FIRE is so bad, why the living BLEEP are you working to help others achieve it?
2) The "magic" is that you start at the bottom and work up. No magic. Just stuff you've said over and over again you're not interested in doing because it's beneath you.

No, some form of "employment" is not required. It is FOR YOU. The end. Your definition of employment is ridiculously narrow and is contributing, IMO, to your deep unhappiness.

[Skyhigh]

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

This is where you consistently trip up and get this fundamentally wrong. You may believe this is the case for yourself, though you don’t actually know because it sounds like you have never been FIREd yourself. We are here all together telling you that this is NOT a universal experience. It is wrong of you to continue insisting that it is in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

*** I hope you enjoyed your holidays.

I have been FIREd during several stretches of my life. In my current business, I work with clients who also have FIREd and have that experience as well. My parents FIREd when in their mid-40’s. My grandparents all retired young. I have spent my life examining this subject very closely and believe that I have a lot of experience with it.

It is possible that you have not been in that situation for long enough to have experienced the effects that I refer to.

[Skyhigh]

In my experience, it often takes an entrepreneurial attitude to develop the self-discipline, skills, and risk acceptance needed to achieve FIRE. However, those same people are not the ones who would often choose to retire. They need a constant stream of challenges and projects to remain satisfied.

I have friends who can not understand why, at my advanced age and financial position, would I go back to college to acquire yet another professional designation. They dream of retiring early, however, do not seem to have the discipline to do what it takes. They continue to dream about it while they watch TV.

Others who are able to accumulate a small pile of cash feel that it is appropriate to abandon their profession early. They place all their hopes on the stock market and other social promises. All I see is a perilous future for them. It is likely that their math will fail and they will be forced back into the job market long after their professional value has expired.

I understand that my perspective is different than most others here. It is exactly what a forum was meant to do. It is a place to share ideas and experiences.

[Skyhigh]

I...don't know what this even means. "I chose FIRE as my only option to provide for my family due to an underperforming career."

Similar statements have caused confusion throughout this thread.  By "FIRE" the OP means self-employment.   Apparently at some point he became FI, but he is still working, doing unfulfilling tasks he hates.  So, he's never RE'd.

Well what does the OP think the “RE” portion of “FIRE” means?  Or the FI part for that matter…

Real Estate? As in Financial Independence via Real Estate.

That would actually make this thread slightly less absurd.

Did we just solve the miscommunication?

No - he states he thinks RE is "Retiring Early - "Ceasing a professional function prior to the commonly accepted age"."
He's got a fixation on "professional", which I think to him means being a doctor, lawyer, or airline pilot for a major airline. All the rest doesn't count.

Right, if a neurologist abandons their profession early to sell turnips at the farmers market it is not a benefit to themselves or to the world at large. Some of us have been blessed with the intelligence, education, opportunity, and resources to achieve a higher function in this life. 

To voluntarily vacate that meaningful interface with the world is not a benefit to anyone in my opinion.

[boarder42]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

Pete had a friend rePete what's Pete's friends name

Seriously I can understand why no one is hiring you. You don't have the ability to be presented information process it and respond to it.

[Moustachienne]

Again with the turnips!  :) :)

Not having just fallen off the turnip truck I'm with Candide, "one must cultivate one's own garden".  You seem to keep very busy in your garden of FIRE nay saying, although maybe not digging very deep. But in the end, to each his or her own turnips.

Right, if a neurologist abandons their profession early to sell turnips at the farmers market it is not a benefit to themselves or to the world at large. Some of us have been blessed with the intelligence, education, opportunity, and resources to achieve a higher function in this life.

[Skyhigh]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

Pete had a friend rePete what's Pete's friends name

Seriously I can understand why no one is hiring you. You don't have the ability to be presented information process it and respond to it.

This is a forum where people strive to retain their privacy. I am not going to start listing names and offering references if that is what you are asking for.

[boarder42]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

[Skyhigh]

Again with the turnips!  :) :)

Not having just fallen off the turnip truck I'm with Candide, "one must cultivate one's own garden".  You seem to keep very busy in your garden of FIRE nay saying, although maybe not digging very deep. But in the end, to each his or her own turnips.

Right, if a neurologist abandons their profession early to sell turnips at the farmers market it is not a benefit to themselves or to the world at large. Some of us have been blessed with the intelligence, education, opportunity, and resources to achieve a higher function in this life.

It seems to me that many here hold the image of a simple life in FIRE of chasing chickens and working in the garden. In my experience it gets old and usually costs far more than it ever produces.

[Skyhigh]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

I don’t have a good answer for that. FIRE is in competition with other goals.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

This whole thread is "OP is the only one who doesn't see it."

I'm out.

[boarder42]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

I don’t have a good answer for that. FIRE is in competition with other goals.

Whooosh

Maybe the op could use a trip to Derek Zoolander's school ?

[DadJokes]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

I don’t have a good answer for that. FIRE is in competition with other goals.

Whooosh

Maybe the op could use a trip to Derek Zoolander's school ?

I'm pretty sure that he's just trolling you guys.

I know that most people are pretty dumb, but I'm having a difficult time imagining that someone could be this dense.

[Villanelle]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

How do you deal with the fundamental hypocrisy of thinking FIRE is terrible for people, and taking money from people to help them achieve FIRE?  You think it is "not healthy or normal" but your life's work is pushing people toward it.   Personally, I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror in the morning if I knew I was going to spend my days doing something I thought was fundamentally damaging to people.  I'd feel like an epic a-hole in that scenario, and I'd end it immediately.

And your insistence that retirement is just laying around and gardening is a fundamental lack of imagination and some ignorant stereotyping.  People have posted example after example, but you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative or martyrdom and self-pity.  I actually hope you are a troll, because that is probably a more mild form of pitiable than if all of this is real.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

The holiday took much of my attention over the last few days.

For the record: I am a fully educated, trained, and experienced professional who was faced with a difficult employment environment in my field over the last 30 years. I did not choose FIRE. It was my primary option after being laid off at a young age. FIRE has since been in competition with my career goals. 

My business is to help others to achieve FIRE through real estate investments. I am also nearing completion of training to become a Certified Financial Planner this spring. I do not believe that retirement is healthy or a normal human experience. It is especially hard on the young.

Many here are earn, save, spent urban professionals who know the culture of what it takes to be successful in the professional job market. It was my aim to understand what magic it takes to break into a heavily defended job market. Others here seem to want to paint me as needing mental help because I am not ready to lay down and work in the garden for the rest of my life.

I do not believe that those who propose to retire on savings can truly claim to be Financially Independent. In my opinion you are very dependent upon the stock market, inflation rates, the survival of social security, and more. You can’t control events that may unravel your plans such as unexpected health challenges, divorce, boredom, and other unpredictable spectrum of events that can easily destroy savings.

Some form of employment is required to stave off boredom, maintain health, diversify income streams, and to retain a sense of purpose. If one is to be employed then it should be something that challenges the full spectrum of their talents, training, and gifts.

How do you deal with the fundamental hypocrisy of thinking FIRE is terrible for people, and taking money from people to help them achieve FIRE?  You think it is "not healthy or normal" but your life's work is pushing people toward it.   Personally, I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror in the morning if I knew I was going to spend my days doing something I thought was fundamentally damaging to people.  I'd feel like an epic a-hole in that scenario, and I'd end it immediately.

And your insistence that retirement is just laying around and gardening is a fundamental lack of imagination and some ignorant stereotyping.  People have posted example after example, but you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative or martyrdom and self-pity.  I actually hope you are a troll, because that is probably a more mild form of pitiable than if all of this is real.

+1

[nereo]

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

Senior management here. We’ve been hiring as fast as possible and have taken on several formerly self-employed people. They are wonderful, and we don’t consider self employment to be a negative on a resume. What I can say here is that there are a ton of red flags that would make me hesitant to give you a second interview, and none have to do with your history of self-employment or “FIRE”.

I would strongly encourage you to read through www.askamanager.com for some very real advice. With some critical reflection I believe you can pinpoint several reasons why you have had minimal success and - with a lot of practice - you could change your fortunes around

Good luck!

[ysette9]

It’s like a big train wreck. I know I shouldn’t look but somehow I just can’t stop myself.

I think we have all concluded this thread is hopeless.

[boarder42]

It’s like a big train wreck. I know I shouldn’t look but somehow I just can’t stop myself.

I think we have all concluded this thread is hopeless.

Yep. Troll or not it's a worthless thread.

[eyesonthehorizon]

All the value in it is coming from other posters, for sure, but it stands to help unintended targets. E.g.

I was going to add a perspective on how people really don't want others to solve their problems, they want genuine empathetic recognition of the depth of them, but the article you just posted says it all SO WELL. Great points that I see applying to people I know, dealt a terrible hand years ago and can't transcend it (also this may be a form of PTSD).

To me the goal is to expand the self-efficacy/agency in one area of life to other areas where one may not be able to "get past" painful events. Almost everyone has at least one thing in life that they don't even question their efficacy at. Ironically, even if this is a "negative" (say, in my case, I know I can always enjoy delicious food but I also complain about my weight gain), there are people (say with GI problems, or an eating disorder) who would see eating whatever you want as a tremendous luxury. When you can finally observe your own latent agency and then use it to tackle other problems, that's powerful.

Emphasis mine. I barely have anything to say except "this framing helped me." Thank you.

[Telecaster]

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

Senior management here. We’ve been hiring as fast as possible and have taken on several formerly self-employed people. They are wonderful, and we don’t consider self employment to be a negative on a resume. What I can say here is that there are a ton of red flags that would make me hesitant to give you a second interview, and none have to do with your history of self-employment or “FIRE”.

It is too late for the OP, but in case someone else is reading this thread...I've been self-employed for 17 years.  In the last say, two years, I've had multiple clients ask to hire me.  One has a standing offer.  I'm hit up regularly (once a month-ish) by corporate recruiters wanting to connect. 

Nothing I do is particularly hard or special.  I just have a record of delivering on time and making things easy for people who hire me.  That is a low bar, but it is high enough companies are eager to hire people who can clear that bar.

I mention this for two reasons, one is that fear of being unable to re-enter the workforce shouldn't scare anyone off self-employment, with rare special exceptions.  The second and I believe more importantly is that self-employment can allow you to Coast FIRE, and/or reduce sequence of returns risk by creating income, if you choose.

[Dicey]

Thanks to this conversation  I have hired a career coach.

[I know I shouldn't ask this, or post on this thread, having tried to help the OP in a trainwreck thread prior to this train wreck, but I just can't help myself.]

So...how'd that career coach work out?

[Fru-Gal]

Thank you, @eyesonthehorizon. Between raising teenagers and helping people close to me after some tragic events I hope I gained a little wisdom.

[Skyhigh]

Lost in America is a movie starring Albert Brooks and Julie Hagerty about a middle 30's urban professional couple who decide to quit their corporate jobs and retire early. They believe that they had reached a point of savings where they could sell their home, buy an RV and retire.

Van-life and FIRE concepts have been around for a long time. The movie came out in 1985. If I recall they had accumulated $400,000 at that point in their lives and believed that they had enough to live on for the rest of their lives. Albert Brooks was 38 at the time. He is currently 74. Imagine having to support a couple from a $400,000 nest egg for all that time. In 1985 $400,000 seemed like a limitless fortune.

I imagine that in 36 years from now a million dollars will seem like a pittance. I believe this movie is a great film and an example of FIRE gone wrong.

[Skyhigh]

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

Senior management here. We’ve been hiring as fast as possible and have taken on several formerly self-employed people. They are wonderful, and we don’t consider self employment to be a negative on a resume. What I can say here is that there are a ton of red flags that would make me hesitant to give you a second interview, and none have to do with your history of self-employment or “FIRE”.

I would strongly encourage you to read through www.askamanager.com for some very real advice. With some critical reflection I believe you can pinpoint several reasons why you have had minimal success and - with a lot of practice - you could change your fortunes around

Good luck!

Thank you. The job market does look better at the moment.

[boarder42]

Lost in America is a movie starring Albert Brooks and Julie Hagerty about a middle 30's urban professional couple who decide to quit their corporate jobs and retire early. They believe that they had reached a point of savings where they could sell their home, buy an RV and retire.

Van-life and FIRE concepts have been around for a long time. The movie came out in 1985. If I recall they had accumulated $400,000 at that point in their lives and believed that they had enough to live on for the rest of their lives. Albert Brooks was 38 at the time. He is currently 74. Imagine having to support a couple from a $400,000 nest egg for all that time. In 1985 $400,000 seemed like a limitless fortune.

I imagine that in 36 years from now a million dollars will seem like a pittance. I believe this movie is a great film and an example of FIRE gone wrong.

well luckily the past is easy to run numbers against so that 400k would be worth 3.6MM 36 years later and they could have taken out an inflation adjusted 4%

great job cherry picking a great year to FIRE.  You also picked a great translation for 400k into 1MM b/c the inflation adjusted value of 400k from 1985 is worth right at 1MM today.  So if history repeats everyone here retiring on 1MM could expect 9x their portfolio value in 36 years while spending 40k a year.

got anymore crazy stories to prove how great FIRE is?

[Kris]

Lost in America is a movie starring Albert Brooks and Julie Hagerty about a middle 30's urban professional couple who decide to quit their corporate jobs and retire early. They believe that they had reached a point of savings where they could sell their home, buy an RV and retire.

Van-life and FIRE concepts have been around for a long time. The movie came out in 1985. If I recall they had accumulated $400,000 at that point in their lives and believed that they had enough to live on for the rest of their lives. Albert Brooks was 38 at the time. He is currently 74. Imagine having to support a couple from a $400,000 nest egg for all that time. In 1985 $400,000 seemed like a limitless fortune.

I imagine that in 36 years from now a million dollars will seem like a pittance. I believe this movie is a great film and an example of FIRE gone wrong.

Billy and Akaisha Kaderli are actual real-life people who retired from their jobs in 1991 at the age of 38. They have been doing it for four decades, and still going strong.

https://www.retireearlylifestyle.com/profile.htm

Seriously, I cannot imagine how faulty your critical thinking skills are if you honestly believe that citing a fiction film is any sort of slam-dunk for your side. If anything, it makes your argument seem even more ridiculous.

[neo von retorch]

Using satirical comedy to prove points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3VdFriAvrs

In this movie, you learn that betting $400,000 in one big bet at a casino can turn out poorly for you.

You have to diversify your bets across various tables at many casinos!

[Telecaster]

Seriously, I cannot imagine how faulty your critical thinking skills are if you honestly believe that citing a fiction film is any sort of slam-dunk for your side. If anything, it makes your argument seem even more ridiculous.

The plot is that a 30-something couple has high paying corporate jobs they hate.  They run the numbers and conclude they can sell everything, RE and RV across the country full time.  The wife promptly losing their nest egg gambling.  They are forced to take menial jobs and living in near-poverty.  They conclude they want their soul-sucking corporate jobs back.

Moral of the story:  Don't lose your life savings gambling. 

[Kris]

Seriously, I cannot imagine how faulty your critical thinking skills are if you honestly believe that citing a fiction film is any sort of slam-dunk for your side. If anything, it makes your argument seem even more ridiculous.

The plot is that a 30-something couple has high paying corporate jobs they hate.  They run the numbers and conclude they can sell everything, RE and RV across the country full time.  The wife promptly losing their nest egg gambling.  They are forced to take menial jobs and living in near-poverty.  They conclude they want their soul-sucking corporate jobs back.

Moral of the story:  Don't lose your life savings gambling.

Wow. That's even a worse argument for his side than I thought. LMAO

[lhamo]

More FIRE movie trivia:

In American Beauty, there is a scene where the wife (Annette Bening) is in the car -- IIRC correctly she is screaming at her partner related to something about their deteriorating relationship. On the passenger seat is a copy of Your Money or Your Life.

Clearly FIRE aspirations are the cause of all mid-life crises....

[nereo]

Let’s look at another classic FIRE tale:
The Princess Bride

Princess Buttercup: Commoner who gains status through marriage. Locked in tower, then flees

Prince Humperdinkt: Heir apparent; loses his self respect and everything else.

Vizzini: Government Contractor. Dies (poisoned) while conducting his job

Montoya: Skilled tradesman, presumably in a guild (sword-maker). Lives a rather miserable existence until following in Westley’s footsteps.

Fezzik: Sporadically employed (e.g. brute squad, governmental sub-contractor under Vizzini) & horse thief. Ultimately finds happiness caring for stolen horses.


[Dr.] Miracle Max: King’s physician until fired (not FIREd) by Humperdinkt; forced to go back to work in his sunset years. Lives in near-poverty in a hut despite his advanced education and training.

Count Rugen: High Government Employee, most-trusted advisor to the prince, inventor; killed.

The Albino: Low-level manual labor in government lab.  Assaulted, definitely concussed,  but fate unknown.

Westley: A self-made, self-employed (farm boy, dread-pirate Roberts #6) man who FIREs and lives happily ever after

The Military (aka “Royal Guard”);  Those that flee live. Everyone who does their job gets stabbed.  Monty Python had the best advice here (“run away!”).

Moral of the story: Financial security cannot be guaranteed by ‘safe’ governmental jobs, advanced training or even a massive amount of inherited wealth. Most people seems to die in the course of their employment. However, self-employed types can FIRE and live out their days in happiness and love so long as they are ok with a bit of moral ambiguity to get there.

[FIRE 20/20]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

I don’t have a good answer for that. FIRE is in competition with other goals.

Whooosh

@boarder42 , I don't think you could have imagined the utterly clueless amazing reply you were going to get when you posted that, but I have to give you serious props nonetheless.  I mean...wow.  I was going to post more comments to address the OP's "points", but you demonstrated with amazing clarity how futile that would have been.  Thank you.  The OP's response to your post is stunning. 

[herbgeek]

Some of us have been blessed with the intelligence, education, opportunity, and resources to achieve a higher function in this life.

So why haven't you achieved this higher function in life if you have, as you say, intelligence, education, opportunity and resources?

[poxpower]

Woah I just stumbled on this and it's like a neural network training itself for 2 years to write a bunch of disjointed rants about financial insecurity and lack of motivation.

[boarder42]

Woah I just stumbled on this and it's like a neural network training itself for 2 years to write a bunch of disjointed rants about financial insecurity and lack of motivation.

That's about what I was typing the other day. And didn't post it.

[Dicey]

Interviewer: can you tell me about a difficult conflict in your past job and how you resolved it.

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer: sounds like you were self employed what did you learn while self employed that would set you up for success here?

Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: that sounds difficult. What did you enjoy most about your previous job before becoming self employed.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life


Interviewer:. That's interesting can you elaborate on your statement. It seems youve had a rough go of it.


Skyhigh: my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

Interviewer: ok you can expect to hear from us in a few weeks


Skyhigh: but did you hear what I said? I can't start today!  my whole life is difficult I was fired 30 years ago and started a rental business and have been mowing lawns and it's been unfullfilling so I want back into corp life

I agree that prospective employers do not like those who are self-employed. They can tell from a resume that you have not had to do anything truly awful for a very long time. They must be wondering how someone who has become accustomed to the easy life, would be able to fit back into the box of full time employment.

I don’t have a good answer for that. FIRE is in competition with other goals.

Whooosh

@boarder42 , I don't think you could have imagined the utterly clueless amazing reply you were going to get when you posted that, but I have to give you serious props nonetheless.  I mean...wow.  I was going to post more comments to address the OP's "points", but you demonstrated with amazing clarity how futile that would have been.  Thank you.  The OP's response to your post is stunning.

It's been two days and I can still hear the giant sucking sound.

[Telecaster]

Lost in America is a movie starring Albert Brooks and Julie Hagerty about a middle 30's urban professional couple who decide to quit their corporate jobs and retire early. They believe that they had reached a point of savings where they could sell their home, buy an RV and retire.

Van-life and FIRE concepts have been around for a long time. The movie came out in 1985. If I recall they had accumulated $400,000 at that point in their lives and believed that they had enough to live on for the rest of their lives. Albert Brooks was 38 at the time. He is currently 74. Imagine having to support a couple from a $400,000 nest egg for all that time. In 1985 $400,000 seemed like a limitless fortune.

I imagine that in 36 years from now a million dollars will seem like a pittance. I believe this movie is a great film and an example of FIRE gone wrong.

Billy and Akaisha Kaderli are actual real-life people who retired from their jobs in 1991 at the age of 38. They have been doing it for four decades, and still going strong.

https://www.retireearlylifestyle.com/profile.htm

Seriously, I cannot imagine how faulty your critical thinking skills are if you honestly believe that citing a fiction film is any sort of slam-dunk for your side. If anything, it makes your argument seem even more ridiculous.

And don't forget Paul and Vicky Terhorst authors of "Cashing in on the American Dream: How to Retire at 35".  This link is 10 years old but there are a million others out there that are newer. I just like to read Bogelheads comments ;-).

 https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60974

High powered executive and spouse quit their jobs at 35 to become full time travelers.  Now in their mid 60s and living a nice life and increased their stash. MMM talked about them in one of his blog posts when they hit their 30 year FIRE mark a few years ago.

The Kaderlis and Terhorsts are the OGs of the RE movement.  Also John Greeney who was an engineer at Exxon and retired at 38.  They were really the ones who proved the concept for those of us who came later. 

[boarder42]

Lost in America is a movie starring Albert Brooks and Julie Hagerty about a middle 30's urban professional couple who decide to quit their corporate jobs and retire early. They believe that they had reached a point of savings where they could sell their home, buy an RV and retire.

Van-life and FIRE concepts have been around for a long time. The movie came out in 1985. If I recall they had accumulated $400,000 at that point in their lives and believed that they had enough to live on for the rest of their lives. Albert Brooks was 38 at the time. He is currently 74. Imagine having to support a couple from a $400,000 nest egg for all that time. In 1985 $400,000 seemed like a limitless fortune.

I imagine that in 36 years from now a million dollars will seem like a pittance. I believe this movie is a great film and an example of FIRE gone wrong.

Billy and Akaisha Kaderli are actual real-life people who retired from their jobs in 1991 at the age of 38. They have been doing it for four decades, and still going strong.

https://www.retireearlylifestyle.com/profile.htm

Seriously, I cannot imagine how faulty your critical thinking skills are if you honestly believe that citing a fiction film is any sort of slam-dunk for your side. If anything, it makes your argument seem even more ridiculous.

And don't forget Paul and Vicky Terhorst authors of "Cashing in on the American Dream: How to Retire at 35".  This link is 10 years old but there are a million others out there that are newer. I just like to read Bogelheads comments ;-).

 https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60974

High powered executive and spouse quit their jobs at 35 to become full time travelers.  Now in their mid 60s and living a nice life and increased their stash. MMM talked about them in one of his blog posts when they hit their 30 year FIRE mark a few years ago.

The Kaderlis and Terhorsts are the OGs of the RE movement.  Also John Greeney who was an engineer at Exxon and retired at 38.  They were really the ones who proved the concept for those of us who came later.

Now this thread is getting good. Who else y'all know about.

[lhamo]

Vicki Robin, of course.  She's still the grand dame of old-school FIRE in my book - kind of like Pete's fairy godmother:

https://vickirobin.com/about/

David Heitmiller and Jacqueline Blix wrote the follow up to YMOYL (Getting a Life) -- and donated all the profits from the book via the New Road Map Foundation.  They were profiled in this 2008 article -- their annual spend had gone from 30k to 45k at the time, but that was pre-ACA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24879628

Oh, sadly David passed away in  2020....

https://funerals.coop/obituaries/2020-obituaries/july-2020/david-allen-heitmiller.html

This passage from his obituary is something many of us would be proud to have written of us:

He became involved in Voluntary Simplicity in 1991, left corporate life and the telephone company at age 48 to dedicate himself to truly living, and in 1997 co-authored a book on simple living and financial independence with his wife Jacque Blix. He was known by many as someone who could help fix something, install something, or build something. He formed and maintained hundreds of friendships, and connected or reconnected with extended family from all over the country and world. Over the years he took up the harmonica, saxophone, yoga, meditation, and most of all poetry: he kept a weekly poetry blog (thebicyclingpoet.blogspot.com) and had a poem published in the San Diego Poetry Annual Anthology (2020.) All of David’s activities reflected his deep love for life, for his family, his friends, and the world at large. It was his hope to leave the world a better place.

[youngwildandfree]

This passage from his obituary is something many of us would be proud to have written of us:

He became involved in Voluntary Simplicity in 1991, left corporate life and the telephone company at age 48 to dedicate himself to truly living, and in 1997 co-authored a book on simple living and financial independence with his wife Jacque Blix. He was known by many as someone who could help fix something, install something, or build something. He formed and maintained hundreds of friendships, and connected or reconnected with extended family from all over the country and world. Over the years he took up the harmonica, saxophone, yoga, meditation, and most of all poetry: he kept a weekly poetry blog (thebicyclingpoet.blogspot.com) and had a poem published in the San Diego Poetry Annual Anthology (2020.) All of David’s activities reflected his deep love for life, for his family, his friends, and the world at large. It was his hope to leave the world a better place.

That's inspiring! What a great life goal, "leave the world a better place".

[nereo]

That's inspiring! What a great life goal, "leave the world a better place".

That basically sums up both my and my spouse’s motto, which we independently arrived at before we even met.

[RainyDay]

Let’s look at another classic FIRE tale:
The Princess Bride

Princess Buttercup: Commoner who gains status through marriage. Locked in tower, then flees

Prince Humperdinkt: Heir apparent; loses his self respect and everything else.

Vizzini: Government Contractor. Dies (poisoned) while conducting his job

Montoya: Skilled tradesman, presumably in a guild (sword-maker). Lives a rather miserable existence until following in Westley’s footsteps.

Fezzik: Sporadically employed (e.g. brute squad, governmental sub-contractor under Vizzini) & horse thief. Ultimately finds happiness caring for stolen horses.


[Dr.] Miracle Max: King’s physician until fired (not FIREd) by Humperdinkt; forced to go back to work in his sunset years. Lives in near-poverty in a hut despite his advanced education and training.

Count Rugen: High Government Employee, most-trusted advisor to the prince, inventor; killed.

The Albino: Low-level manual labor in government lab.  Assaulted, definitely concussed,  but fate unknown.

Westley: A self-made, self-employed (farm boy, dread-pirate Roberts #6) man who FIREs and lives happily ever after

The Military (aka “Royal Guard”);  Those that flee live. Everyone who does their job gets stabbed.  Monty Python had the best advice here (“run away!”).

Moral of the story: Financial security cannot be guaranteed by ‘safe’ governmental jobs, advanced training or even a massive amount of inherited wealth. Most people seems to die in the course of their employment. However, self-employed types can FIRE and live out their days in happiness and love so long as they are ok with a bit of moral ambiguity to get there.

This was awesome.

[Telecaster]

Now this thread is getting good. Who else y'all know about.

This is a brief history of the modern FIRE movement based on my own leaky memory, things I heard over the fence, and some help from Google.   Corrections, comments, and additions welcome.  For entertainment purposes only.  No warranty is expressed or implied.

The OGs of FIRE are Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin who FIRE'd sometime in the 1980s, and published the classic "Your Money or Your Life"  in 1992.  Prior to that time, they were doing workshops promoting what we call FIRE today. 

The Terhorsts came out with their book  in 1988.   Despite being the first, the Terhorst's book never seemed to have the impact as YMOYL did.  I confess I've read neither, but many cite YMOYL has being hugely influential in their thinking.  However, Dominguez, Robin, and the Terhorsts all made a key planning error, in that they relied 100% on bonds for income.  At that time, the 4% rule had not been discovered and the data and tools to evalulate SWR did not even exist for the vast majority of people.   Peter Lynch, who probably had as many tools available to him as anyone, advocated a 7% WR. 

This changed in 1994 when Bill Bengen discovered the 4% rule and  published it an a industry journal.  Now, there was good answer to the central question of retirement planning, namely how much do I need? But back then the Internet didn't really exist as we know it today and I don't believe the 4% rule made a lot of penetration into the mainstream.

In about 1998 John Greaney (aka intercst), mentioned above, replicated Bengen's work, using Schiller's longer data set.  Greeney did a couple notable things, he founded the Retire Early Home Page which is still being updated in all of its HTML 1.0 glory (kids, if you want to know what the Internet used to look like, this is it) and he worked through a surprising number of topics related to early retirement, taxes, investment strategies, etc.  He also allowed people to download his Excel spreadsheet and data so you could see for yourself and make modifications.  And he set up a Retire Early Home Page discussion page at The Motley Fool.  Out of that board (I believe) our own @Nords and a poster named Dory36 (Bill Sholar) emerged, along with a few other notable posters.

Dory36 set up a early retirement discussion board: Early Retirement.org and he also created FireCalc.  So for the first time there was an online SWR calculator where you can enter your own inputs and assumptions. About this time, Johnathan Clements at the Wall Street Journal and noted syndicated personal finance author Scott Burns picked up on the 4% rule and introduced the concept of FIRE to a mainstream audience.  I believe CFIREsim also came out of Early Retirement.org as well, but I'm not sure of that.

After that, as far as I know  there wasn't a lot of real movement in the FIRE community until MMM arrived.   MMM did several notable things.  For one, he did the nuts and bolts kind of calculations like intercst and Dory36, but he also introduced a lot of philosophy and lifestyle discussion like YMOYL and the Terhorsts.  It really caught on and we all know the rest.

Joe Dominguez died in 1996.  I heard but cannot confirm that his bond ladder was starting to fail and he was living a much diminished lifestyle.   Vicki Robin lives on an island in Washington State and makes occasional media appearances. Robin switched to index funds years ago.  The Terhorsts also switched to index funds and apparently are still having a blast.  John Greaney is still around, and says  "If I knew then what I know now, I would have retired at 30."  Nords appears to be doing well.   Bill Sholar decided running a message board was a lot like work and sailed off into the sunset.

[LoanShark]

Now this thread is getting good. Who else y'all know about.

This is a brief history of the modern FIRE movement based on my own leaky memory, things I heard over the fence, and some help from Google.   Corrections, comments, and additions welcome.  For entertainment purposes only.  No warranty is expressed or implied.

The OGs of FIRE are Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin who FIRE'd sometime in the 1980s, and published the classic "Your Money or Your Life"  in 1992.  Prior to that time, they were doing workshops promoting what we call FIRE today. 

The Terhorsts came out with their book  in 1988.   Despite being the first, the Terhorst's book never seemed to have the impact as YMOYL did.  I confess I've read neither, but many cite YMOYL has being hugely influential in their thinking.  However, Dominguez, Robin, and the Terhorsts all made a key planning error, in that they relied 100% on bonds for income.  At that time, the 4% rule had not been discovered and the data and tools to evalulate SWR did not even exist for the vast majority of people.   Peter Lynch, who probably had as many tools available to him as anyone, advocated a 7% WR. 

This changed in 1994 when Bill Bengen discovered the 4% rule and  published it an a industry journal.  Now, there was good answer to the central question of retirement planning, namely how much do I need? But back then the Internet didn't really exist as we know it today and I don't believe the 4% rule made a lot of penetration into the mainstream.

In about 1998 John Greaney (aka intercst), mentioned above, replicated Bengen's work, using Schiller's longer data set.  Greeney did a couple notable things, he founded the Retire Early Home Page which is still being updated in all of its HTML 1.0 glory (kids, if you want to know what the Internet used to look like, this is it) and he worked through a surprising number of topics related to early retirement, taxes, investment strategies, etc.  He also allowed people to download his Excel spreadsheet and data so you could see for yourself and make modifications.  And he set up a Retire Early Home Page discussion page at The Motley Fool.  Out of that board (I believe) our own @Nords and a poster named Dory36 (Bill Sholar) emerged, along with a few other notable posters.

Dory36 set up a early retirement discussion board: Early Retirement.org and he also created FireCalc.  So for the first time there was an online SWR calculator where you can enter your own inputs and assumptions. About this time, Johnathan Clements at the Wall Street Journal and noted syndicated personal finance author Scott Burns picked up on the 4% rule and introduced the concept of FIRE to a mainstream audience.  I believe CFIREsim also came out of Early Retirement.org as well, but I'm not sure of that.

After that, as far as I know  there wasn't a lot of real movement in the FIRE community until MMM arrived.   MMM did several notable things.  For one, he did the nuts and bolts kind of calculations like intercst and Dory36, but he also introduced a lot of philosophy and lifestyle discussion like YMOYL and the Terhorsts.  It really caught on and we all know the rest.

Joe Dominguez died in 1996.  I heard but cannot confirm that his bond ladder was starting to fail and he was living a much diminished lifestyle.   Vicki Robin lives on an island in Washington State and makes occasional media appearances. Robin switched to index funds years ago.  The Terhorsts also switched to index funds and apparently are still having a blast.  John Greaney is still around, and says  "If I knew then what I know now, I would have retired at 30."  Nords appears to be doing well.   Bill Sholar decided running a message board was a lot like work and sailed off into the sunset.

Great post. Thanks.

[MissNancyPryor]

I saw the YMOYL team on Oprah back when they were just getting known- they were on the show with Amy Dacyczyn of the Tightwad Gazette.  Most chalked them up as hippy-dippy types and dismissed them as weirdos.   

People doing this a while will the remember useless retirement calculators that did not allow you to set your post-work annual spend amount at anything less than 80% of your current salary.  That could be said another way -- the concept of saving more than 20% of your pay was not fathomable.  If I live on 60% of my current pay, why do I need 80% when I am not working?  Vanguard's was this way up until pretty recently.     

I also remember being frustrated that none of the calculators allowed you to look at the effect of eating your nest egg in the last years of life.  The introduction of Monte Carlo simulations and graphic displays of same made a huge difference. 

We've come a long way, baby.