Communications & Tech - The ISP, VoIP and Cellphone Superguide

[Jake P]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I'm going to port my wife's Iphone over in the next few days.  Screw the unlimited data.  She has averaged 1.5 gigs/month for the last 3 years.  If she stays with att here is what they want to charge to keep the unlimited data: $39.99 for 450 minutes talk,, $30 unlimited data, $20 unlimited text and aprrox $8 taxes and fees. so aprrox $98/month, then her work discount only applies to certain parts of the bill knocking off around $20/month.  That is just way too much.

[nsarwark]

Thanks IP for the guide.  I have SIMs for my iPhone 4S and my wife's 3GS ready to go, will do the port request tonight when I get home from work.  I've been averaging just under 1GB of data usage on AT&T and was going to get the $40 Airvoice plan, but after reading through all the facepunching, I've decided to do the $10/month plan and massively reduce my data usage.  If it doesn't work after a few months, I can always go up to a $30 or $40 plan, but I'd rather try to save the money first.

Cross your fingers that all goes well and thank you again for the guide.

-Nick

[b4u2]

Question. I am close to being out of contract with Directv. I am interested in dropping it completely. We love the dvr set up. A friend of mine has ROKU and loves it. I already have Netflix and just got Amazon prime free for a month. My main concern is sports, especially football (college & pro), what are my options? I do not have an antenna. Basically I want to be Directv free and cut that cable bill!

[Jake P]

I've been cable free and using an antenna for over 3 years.  Unfortunately, there just isn't a lot of sports broadcasting over the networks anymore.  The one exception being pro football.  I would invest in an antenna, then look into the cost of a streaming subscription from ESPN.

[_JT]

Apologies in advance to IP Daley, because I'm sure these questions have been asked/answered elsewhere. I read the first page of this thread and the last three pages, as well, and I didn't see them.

I have an iphone5 on AT&T, and my mobile habits/data usage are my number one biggest financial splurge. Slash hemorrhage.

The Bad:

Data usage: AT&T tells me every few months that I'm in the top 5% of data users. I have grandfathered unlimited data, so I'm burning it up like people used to burn fossil fuels. I stream podcasts, watch netflix, read pic intensive articles, watch youtube, surf craigslist basically an hour a day, etc. I check fb/twitter/instagram a handful of times day (less than most of my peers, but a horrifying amount to a mustachian, I'd guess). I send several thousand texts a month. I talk on the phone as much as 450 minutes a week. I'm, to put it lightly, a heavy user. I'm a musician and I live on the road -- my phone is the thing that keeps me connected to everyone.

The device: iPhone 5. It's pricey and the battery life isn't ideal. That said, I'm a fan of the interface and the app support. My gf, family, and most of my close friends are on them, so iMessage is pretty handy to me.

The Good:

Usage: The vast majority of my talk and text is to my gf, who lives 5 hours away from me, and is also on an iphone. I have 450 anytime minutes, but free friends/family or whatever AT&T's package is, so I actually never go over my minutes. If I have to pay for my data by the MB, I can easily dump the excess. I spent a month in Europe last year, and I used my iphone as an itouch (disabled the data and just used wireless), and it didn't bother me in the slightest. I'm pretty certain I can reign in all superfluous data usage without even missing it. Sync podcasts on wireless, ditch streaming video, disable images in the browser, and delete fb and ig apps, and I suspect my data usage would drop by 80%.

The OS: I'm still on iOS6, because I know apple software rollouts are annoying as fuck. I am given to understand that this makes it easier to setup on Airvoice?

Accessibility: I have good wifi at home, and decent wifi when I'm freelancing/with my family.

It looks as though the $40/month airvoice unlimited plan would be an easy transition for me, saving me $60/mo. I suspect that with a little discipline and some new habits I could get down into the pay-as-you-go or at least the $30/mo pretty quickly. But for right now getting my bill below 50 bucks would be a slam dunk.

I guess my questions are this: will future iOS upgrade paths on my 5 be denied to me by being on Airvoice? Would it be wise to, before making the jump, spend a month carefully auditing my data usage? If so, does anyone have any good recommendations on how to do that (preferably using my phone)? How will my coverage be affected (I see in the initial post here that most of the MNVOs don't allow roaming on other networks, but airvoice's coverage map looks to be pretty extensive)?

Thanks!

[Daley]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I'm going to port my wife's Iphone over in the next few days.  Screw the unlimited data.

Cross your fingers that all goes well and thank you again for the guide.

Glad to help, both of you. Best of luck with the changes!

Question. I am close to being out of contract with Directv. I am interested in dropping it completely. We love the dvr set up. A friend of mine has ROKU and loves it. I already have Netflix and just got Amazon prime free for a month. My main concern is sports, especially football (college & pro), what are my options? I do not have an antenna. Basically I want to be Directv free and cut that cable bill!

As it's been said, antenna. Otherwise, check out this thread for some ideas.

The OS: I'm still on iOS6, because I know apple software rollouts are annoying as fuck. I am given to understand that this makes it easier to setup on Airvoice?

-snip-

I guess my questions are this: will future iOS upgrade paths on my 5 be denied to me by being on Airvoice? Would it be wise to, before making the jump, spend a month carefully auditing my data usage? If so, does anyone have any good recommendations on how to do that (preferably using my phone)? How will my coverage be affected (I see in the initial post here that most of the MNVOs don't allow roaming on other networks, but airvoice's coverage map looks to be pretty extensive)?

In order of questions asked:

Yes.

Depends. You can upgrade and use now, but it's quirky and problematic. I don't see this improving, because it's pretty clear Apple prefers people to only use their product on the carriers they approve of (big four, StraightTalk, Virgin, etc.), or so it seems. Even if this is not the intent, the changes made certainly look that way.

Possibly, but if you're pretty confident you can gut it quickly, maybe try for a week first before pulling the handle. Fortunately, your data usage cutting is pretty obvious on the major offenders.

Onavo Count.

Switching to Airvoice is just like AT&T native coverage, only without partner roaming. You should hopefully be able to simulate it currently before switching on iOS6 using these instructions.

Hope it helps!

[_JT]

Brilliant. Indeed it does. And when I do eventually make my switch, I will be donating my first month's savings to you via your website for all your help here. A small token, given the efforts you make, but still.

[thenextguy]

Awesome thread. I'm considering switching to T-Mobile $30/mo. plan from AT&T. I'd like to keep my same phone number, obviously. I'm still under contract with AT&T, so I'll have to pay an ETF. I plan to keep using my AT&T phone, so I'll need to have them unlock it for me as well!

At what point do I cancel with them if I do switch? Also, at what point should I transfer my number to Google Voice if I plan to use that as well.

So many steps! :/

[Bruised_Pepper]

Question. I am close to being out of contract with Directv. I am interested in dropping it completely. We love the dvr set up. A friend of mine has ROKU and loves it. I already have Netflix and just got Amazon prime free for a month. My main concern is sports, especially football (college & pro), what are my options? I do not have an antenna. Basically I want to be Directv free and cut that cable bill!

I can't help you with college ball, since I don't watch it myself, but here's what I wrote in response to a similar query a while ago.  The OP wanted to watch the Patriots and lived in their home market. 

Okay, here's how the football schedule works--sorry if you already know all of this, but it's how games are assigned between the two major football channels:

The NFL is divided into two conferences: the AFC and NFC.  Every year, each team plays 12 games within its own conference, and four games with a team in the opposite conference.  Two of those non-conference games are played at home, and two are played as a visitor. 

The Sunday afternoon games (1:00 and 4:00 on the East Coast) are split between CBS and FOX.  CBS has the rights to all games where the visiting team is in the AFC, and FOX has the rights to all games where the visiting team is in the NFC.  Since each team hosts two non-conference opponents during the season, each team will play up to 14 of its games on one channel, and up to 2 on the other.  The Patriots are in the AFC, so they would play the vast majority of their games on CBS--so if that "up to 1 channel" you could receive via antenna is CBS, you're in luck.  Each local CBS/FOX affiliate will pick a game to play in each time slot.  Since you live near Boston, your local CBS/FOX affiliate (whoever has the rights to the game in question) will almost undoubtedly pick the Patriots every time.

Of course, one game a week is also played on Thursday night, Sunday night, and Monday night, regardless of the visiting team's conference rule.  Sunday night games belong to NBC, who gladly streams their game for free online every week on NBC.com.  Easy.  The other two games are broadcast on ESPN (Monday) and NFL Network (Thursday), so they are only available on cable/satellite.  I am currently unaware of any legal streaming possibilities there, so whenever the Patriots play on these networks, your husband will need to find a bar/friend's house to watch at.  This of course will require a fee (beers at the bar and drinks/snacks/travel time at his friend's house).  Unfortunately (I guess) since the Patriots are consistently good and wildly popular, their games appear more frequently in the primetime slots, so it's a little more cumbersome being a Patriots fan than a Jags fan. 

So:
- You get Sunday night games from NBC online
- Monday night and Thursday night games are cable/satellite only, so find a communal TV
- The Sunday afternoon Patriot games will be mostly on CBS, so you need to focus on getting this channel

Hopefully that one channel you can get is CBS.  If not, I've heard some fans buy a slingbox and ask one of their friends to stream them the game (I'm not familiar with the product so I can't endorse it).  Similarly, my parents (who have glorious Sunday Ticket) used a webcam pointed at the TV to stream a game to my brother when he was in college.  My dad also used to tape his team's game and send them to a man in England (they met on a fan forum).  Your husband likely knows people in Boston (or at least in better antenna-reception areas) who he could arrange something like this with.  Even if he has to offer payment for the service, it's still cheaper than subscribing to cable.

[...]

I'll point out for anyone who happens to live out of their NFL team's market that the local CBS/FOX affiliates may show your team depending on your team's popularity and strength (and if their game doesn't conflict with the local team), but you'll likely miss a majority of your team's games without extra help.  The official NFL viewing package is not done through the league like other major sports leagues, but exclusively through DirecTV.  Since most of us aren't signing up for satellite service, I hear you can purchase the product, Sunday Ticket, for your computer "if you can't get satellite where you live"--I've heard cases that DirecTV doesn't verify this, but I've never tried myself--but the cost is extraordinary...$350-400 for a season.  DirecTV's contract ends after the 2014 season, and there are whispers that they may not renew the exclusivity portion of the contract.  In the worst case, competition may start and lower the price, but still require expensive TV service to get the product.  In the best case, Google or similar acquires it (they're interested) and sells it independent of television subscriptions.  So, we might see a lot more access to football in the next few years, and if an internet company acquires the rights, maybe even a push for a la carte programming across the board.  Stay tuned.

In the time since I wrote that post, I've discovered another method that might work for an out-of-market dweller, but it's a bit skeezy.  You'd have to pay, but probably not nearly as much as the Sunday Ticket online-only method I noted towards the end.  And skeezy as it may be, it would be a lot better than stealing games off the Internet, unless you're okay with watching crap-quality streams.  PM me if you want the deets--I don't think I should be blabbing about it publicly.

[nsarwark]

The port to Airvoice worked fine, cellular data worked after a couple of resets and an APN change, but there doesn't appear to be any way to send MMS messages with the iPhones on Airvoice.  For now, my advice to my wife is to email pics and videos instead of trying to send a text.  It's a pain in the ass, but going from $145/month on AT&T to $20/month is probably worth the hassle.  Unless or until I find myself renewing the $10/month plan every week.

IP, do you know if there's any plan to change how iOS locks out the MMS settings if the MVNO underlying carrier is AT&T? 

-Nick

[HokieInPa]

You can get MMS with Airvoice on an iPhone running ios6 or ios7. These directions are for ios7:

http://youtu.be/gmRSDDJbOUQ

You do need a T mobile sim, which are like $1 on amazon or eBay. You have to follow the directions exactly, but it does work. I have done it twice, including once about 10 days ago.

Good luck

[Daley]

IP, do you know if there's any plan to change how iOS locks out the MMS settings if the MVNO underlying carrier is AT&T?

It's possible to change as Hokie has shown, but the complexity in effort does raise questions. I wouldn't hold my breath that it'll ever change how it's done other than for the worse from the end user's perspective.

[Baylor3217]

For airvlice wireless or h2o, if you have multiple phones on the same plan is it just the plan amount times the number of phones?  (Ie $60 plan for 2 phones = $120)?

Ring charges an extra $6 so would seem to be an advantage there.

Also, anyone used Net10? 

[Simple Abundant Living]

You can get MMS with Airvoice on an iPhone running ios6 or ios7. These directions are for ios7:

http://youtu.be/gmRSDDJbOUQ

You do need a T mobile sim, which are like $1 on amazon or eBay. You have to follow the directions exactly, but it does work. I have done it twice, including once about 10 days ago.

Good luck

Does it need to be a T mobile sim card?  There are ultra mobile sims on ebay for $1, and the T mobile is $3.

[madage]

Does it need to be a T mobile sim card?  There are ultra mobile sims on ebay for $1, and the T mobile is $3.

An Ultra Mobile sim should work. The sim just needs to be from a non-AT&T MVNO.

[Daley]

Does it need to be a T mobile sim card?  There are ultra mobile sims on ebay for $1, and the T mobile is $3.

An Ultra Mobile sim should work. The sim just needs to be from a non-AT&T MVNO.

What Madage said. To add to that list, also include: P'tel/Giv Mobile, Spot Mobile, LycaMobile, MetroPCS and Ready SIM amongst a scad of others. Whatever's cheapest. Alternately, it doesn't even have to be an unregistered SIM card, even a used/non-active T-Mobile SIM will work from a friend.

[Daley]

Suggestions?

First, it would be best to know what actual monthly minute and text averages are involved to best understand usage pattern and expected costs. That said...

Verizon Postpaid Samsung SCH U365 - $60 (or $100 through Kitty Wireless)
Page Plus The 12 Plan - $12/month + PAYG cash card for any SMS texts over 250/month at 5¢ each (200 per $10).

Activation through Kitty Wireless right now gives you free activation, number port, and a free month of The 12 (if done before 12/31).

Verizon feature phone ETF fee for 03/2014 - $70-75

Total cost to switch with new device, new plan, and ETF before end of year (assuming The 12 will be sufficient): $(12*2+70+60) = $154 + tax
Total cost to ride out contract: $141

Same Verizon coverage, should be relatively transparent and painless a transition for your husband (excuse the address book migration). Yes, it's technically cheaper to ride out the contract, but only by a margin of $20, give or take. If the phone is failing, it might be worth it to cut and run earlier just for the sake of functionality and to get the switch done.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

Go Dolphin. Opera only compresses and resizes images, but Dolphin can turn off image use entirely. With the very rare exception (like a website showing a weather radar image) you'd be surprised how little you'll miss images loaded on the websites that you're reading, especially on a small screen.

I am still working my way through this thread before asking my own questions, but I did want to add that this is no longer true (if it was true at the time).  You can turn off images in Opera's mobile browser.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

You have a Nexus 4, why do you need to listen to streaming music? You have both fixed and expandable storage space.

I believe this is wrong also (unless you are referring to something other than an sd card for exandable storage).  No sd card slot in the N4.

[Daley]

I am still working my way through this thread before asking my own questions, but I did want to add that this is no longer true (if it was true at the time).  You can turn off images in Opera's mobile browser.

Not all versions of the Opera browser have had the capacity for disabling image loading, even on Android. Back in the Intercept and Nook ST days, I had to go to Dolphin for that functionality. It's great to hear that Opera finally introduced that feature, but honestly, interface and page rendering is better in Dolphin anyway and the invasiveness of the Terms of Service between the browsers is about equal. It also doesn't make a lick of difference to the bottom line of the point made: use a browser that can turn off image loading.

I believe this is wrong also (unless you are referring to something other than an sd card for exandable storage).  No sd card slot in the N4.

And? TurboLT has the phone, and I goofed on a minor device feature for one device in a sea of thousands. Your point makes no difference to the true point being made on questions answered over three months ago: use the storage you already have. I appreciate the feedback, but it's nitpicking.

[Daley]

So my big concern with the PagePlus would be texting but as you can see he's drastically reduced it recently and I think most of those texts are to/from me. He has a Samsung Galaxy mp3 player, is there an app where he can text from that if he has wifi?

As for his current phone failing it's not falling apart, the big issue is his contacts are very glitchy (it refuses to save my number, names won't pop up when some other saved contacts calls or texts him...) so I think he can hold out until the contract is up.

The other question would be can he test out the phone/service for say a month and then port his number over? I was able to do that with my Republic phone (I know but it's great for me and I got the old cheaper phone) to give it a test drive before I committed

Reasonable concern on the text quantities cited, and I suspect you might be right that most are with you (the SO is usually one of the major SMS text usage sources with most folks). As to the Samsung Galaxy MP3 player question, if it's an Android device (which I believe it should be), you should be able to load Google Hangouts on it, which does the Voice SMS integration thing so it could technically directly text cell phone numbers in exchange for just a bit more loss of privacy to Google. Alternately, there's other, non-SMS replacement apps for Android that you should be able to load on your own phone and the Galaxy like Kik, XMS, Nimbuzz, etc.

Have you tried backing up the contacts and doing a factory reset on the phone? It doesn't work all the time, but it works often enough to make it worth trying if the address book can be easily backed up and restored.

You could theoretically do that, but switching to Page Plus isn't going to be like switching to Republic. Your husband is going to have the exact same network coverage he already has (including off-network roaming coverage - though roaming costs won't be absorbed by Verizon) and if the phone reset helps with stability, even the same hardware. Other than needing to set back up voicemail and maybe contacting customer care after the switch, I doubt your husband will even be able to tell the difference. I'm not crazy about recommending PP due to the America Movil buyout, but there's no other stable, long term Verizon MVNO I can recommend yet. On the bright side, I saw PP cards down at Walgreens for the first time yesterday...

If you want to play it cautious and absolutely need to replace the handset, then yes, you can do a temporary trial number and then port over the new one. Kitty even has a section on their porting FAQ detailing the process.

If a new handset isn't needed, I'd recommend not waiting for the end of the contract if The 12 plan can be made to work. Your break even point is under two months with your current ETF.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

I appreciate the feedback, but it's nitpicking.

My apologies. it was not my intention to nitpick, but rather to contribute to the information in the thread.  I agreed with your general points and was hoping to add something to them. I'll be more careful in my wording next time. I really have enjoyed reading this thread, especially what you have written. I'll be likely be seeking some advice myself as soon as I'm done reading it (I'm on page 20 now).

[Daley]

His contract end date is just over 2 months away (3/5) so I think we'll just stick with Verizon until then, playing with the Android texting and then switching him to PagePlus. Thanks so much for your help!

Sounds like a plan, good luck!

My apologies. it was not my intention to nitpick, but rather to contribute to the information in the thread.  I agreed with your general points and was hoping to add something to them. I'll be more careful in my wording next time. I really have enjoyed reading this thread, especially what you have written. I'll be likely be seeking some advice myself as soon as I'm done reading it (I'm on page 20 now).

No worries, and apologies myself. I tend to be a bigger picture person, and that colors my approach more visibly at times than others. Let me know when you're ready, and I'll do what I can for you. :)

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

OK, I think I'm ready.

I have a pair of Nexus 5 that my wife and I use.  We are both currently on RingPlus $9.99 (400min/400txt/300MB; additional min/txt/MB are $0.02 each) because this was my first time stepping off of the MNO gravy train and I wanted a safety net to get my bearings on just how much I use when trying to be conscientious about it.  I set both of us up with GV numbers so I wouldn't lose phone #'s just in case RP turned out to be not such a good idea.  I am nearing a point where I think I would feel comfortable moving off of this to the RingPlus $5.99 plan (100min/10txt/$0.02perMB) plan.  Do you think this would be a good step down plan in preparation for a full fledged paygo scenario or should I simply brace myself further and take the plunge.

What I would eventually like to do is set up a VoIP home phone (voip.ms seems like a good candidate to me) and switch over to a paygo plan (considering ptel at this time).  I've thought about using CSipSimple as a softphone with VoIP (in addition to the home phone) and an IM app (my wife already uses Kakao Talk, but I am open to other suggestions) to further reduce costs on minutes & texts, but am less confident about this and would like some feedback on whether something like voip.ms+CSipSimple can be an effective plan.

Finally, my wife has family in Korea, and we already have a VoIP phone to communicate between her parents and sister.  I am told only costs the equivalent of $2-3 (I am not the one paying for it) a month and has free calls between accounts with the same provider.  While I believe I could get a better deal for myself and my wife's family through voip.ms, I very much doubt I could convince her family to make such a change.  The problem is that this offends my aesthetic sense (feng shui, etc) to have two separate VoIP devices/providers.  I'm not sure if I am looking for you to face punch me so I will get over this and just have both operating in my home or if you have magical abilities that can somehow resolve these two services into one.

Thanks again for this fantastic thread.

Edit: Oh, and I really wouldn't mind getting rid of Google Voice if I could somehow leverage the VoIP to replace it.

[Baylor3217]

I did confirm on h2o that you can add another phone. Thy give you $10 off each additional phone plan and the plan details are tied to each specific phone. No sharing of data etc.

[Baylor3217]

I'm probably going to go with republic. The data costs are just too compelling. My 4s is almost 4 years old so I'll be needing a new soonish regardless.

I'm going to the store today to play with the Motorola phones to see how I like them.

[arebelspy]

My 4s is almost 4 years old so I'll be needing a new soonish regardless.

It only seems like that. The 4s only came out just over 2 years ago.  ;)

[annaraven]

Switching to Airvoice is just like AT&T native coverage, only without partner roaming.

Can you explain this part a little more? What does it mean to be "without partner roaming"? Does that mean if I travel, I might have no phone service?

[Baylor3217]

My 4s is almost 4 years old so I'll be needing a new soonish regardless.

It only seems like that. The 4s only came out just over 2 years ago.  ;)

Yep. Sure seems longer.

[Daley]

OK, I think I'm ready.

Okay... given you're already on Ring Plus and your numbers are tied to Google Voice, truthfully? Going PAYG isn't really going to get you much cheaper than $5/month anyway (P'tel being the cheapest per minute PAYG offering available for your handset at 5¢ with a minimum monthly cost of $5, Airvoice and Spot can get you down into the $2.50-3.50 range, but run 10¢/minute and can include additional monthly costs. If you're getting under that threshold (or think the RP $6 Harrison plan is viable), you might want to re-evaluate the value of keeping the devices in your life at all. If you'd rather keep them around and given your current setup, you might as well ride out the RP gravy train for as long as it lasts or fits your needs. The only compelling reason to switch up services at this point is to switch for the sake of stability and customer support, and those changes may lead you to spending more than you are currently. I believe in quality over quantity and paying for what you need, and if you're on board with that, I'll be happy to help optimize accordingly; otherwise you've already taken things about as far as you can.

The VOIP.ms+CSipSimple idea is very viable, and if KakaoTalk is working for you, go for it. The Kik, Nimbuzz and XMS recommendations are primarily based on a measure between terms of service, privacy policy, platform availability, and overall data compression/usage on messaging. They're the least offensive and software stable click-and-install messaging apps I've found short of configuring your own using XMPP.

As to the Korea situation, so long as you have proper SIP account credentials, you can roll it and VOIP.ms into a singular device by using an ATA that supports two SIP accounts on one FXS port, like the OBi100. Then you can just set up dial plans to route the Korea calls through the one carrier and the remaining through the other. More specific advice would require knowing who the current VoIP provider is. You can PM me if you'd rather keep things a bit more private on this point.

Glad to be of help, and hope this gives you a bit extra direction.

What does it mean to be "without partner roaming"? Does that mean if I travel, I might have no phone service?

It means that on AT&T postpaid, you typically get free roaming onto T-Mobile/Plateautel/Cellular One/Cincinatti Bell/i wireless/[insert other obscure regional carrier here] GSM towers if there are no AT&T GSM towers available. On prepaid MVNOs like Airvoice, you can only make calls on AT&T towers. With major metropolitan areas and interstates, this typically isn't a problem as there's consistent coverage... and being on an AT&T MVNO, you're going to have a far larger coverage map (even in the sticks) than any T-Mobile MVNO, and honestly there aren't many places there's a T-Mo tower where there isn't an AT&T one. The only minor exception to this rule is some of those regional players I mentioned above who have a bit of a spectrum lock in parts of some states (mostly in more rural areas), like Plateautel (New Mexico, Texas panhandle), i wireless (Iowa), Cellular One (Illinois), Cinty Bell (Indiana, Ohio); you go into one of these areas, you're not likely to find many AT&T towers for making calls with on your prepaid plan far off the well beaten path.

Now, don't let this scare you off! As long as you have map coverage for all the areas you'll typically find yourself, you'll most likely be fine. And even for the times you don't have AT&T coverage and you need to make an emergency call to 911? The nearest GSM tower, no matter who owns it, has to take, route and connect your call to the nearest PSAP for your reception area. You might not be able to call a tow truck or kindly old Aunt Harriet to let her know you'll be late, but if the engine is on fire or you broke a limb, you'll be able to call emergency services. Make sense?

I did confirm on h2o that you can add another phone. Thy give you $10 off each additional phone plan and the plan details are tied to each specific phone. No sharing of data etc.

Clarification for others: $40+ plans only, and it's been available since April. The deal is underwhelming at best. There's better family plan options on the GSM spectrum than H2O... interestingly enough, is's Consumer Cellular since the AT&T MVNO price restructuring.

I'm probably going to go with republic.

You made your choice, good for you. Stick with it and get on with your life and stop debating further, as you've already wasted several hundred dollars in opportunity cost since June as is. I hope it works out for you, and you don't get burned by their terms of service with your data usage.

Be well.

[Baylor3217]

What do you mean from a terms of service perspective?

OK, I think I'm ready.

Okay... given you're already on Ring Plus and your numbers are tied to Google Voice, truthfully? Going PAYG isn't really going to get you much cheaper than $5/month anyway (P'tel being the cheapest per minute PAYG offering available for your handset at 5¢ with a minimum monthly cost of $5, Airvoice and Spot can get you down into the $2.50-3.50 range, but run 10¢/minute and can include additional monthly costs. If you're getting under that threshold (or think the RP $6 Harrison plan is viable), you might want to re-evaluate the value of keeping the devices in your life at all. If you'd rather keep them around and given your current setup, you might as well ride out the RP gravy train for as long as it lasts or fits your needs. The only compelling reason to switch up services at this point is to switch for the sake of stability and customer support, and those changes may lead you to spending more than you are currently. I believe in quality over quantity and paying for what you need, and if you're on board with that, I'll be happy to help optimize accordingly; otherwise you've already taken things about as far as you can.

The VOIP.ms+CSipSimple idea is very viable, and if KakaoTalk is working for you, go for it. The Kik, Nimbuzz and XMS recommendations are primarily based on a measure between terms of service, privacy policy, platform availability, and overall data compression/usage on messaging. They're the least offensive and software stable click-and-install messaging apps I've found short of configuring your own using XMPP.

As to the Korea situation, so long as you have proper SIP account credentials, you can roll it and VOIP.ms into a singular device by using an ATA that supports two SIP accounts on one FXS port, like the OBi100. Then you can just set up dial plans to route the Korea calls through the one carrier and the remaining through the other. More specific advice would require knowing who the current VoIP provider is. You can PM me if you'd rather keep things a bit more private on this point.

Glad to be of help, and hope this gives you a bit extra direction.

What does it mean to be "without partner roaming"? Does that mean if I travel, I might have no phone service?

It means that on AT&T postpaid, you typically get free roaming onto T-Mobile/Plateautel/Cellular One/Cincinatti Bell/i wireless/[insert other obscure regional carrier here] GSM towers if there are no AT&T GSM towers available. On prepaid MVNOs like Airvoice, you can only make calls on AT&T towers. With major metropolitan areas and interstates, this typically isn't a problem as there's consistent coverage... and being on an AT&T MVNO, you're going to have a far larger coverage map (even in the sticks) than any T-Mobile MVNO, and honestly there aren't many places there's a T-Mo tower where there isn't an AT&T one. The only minor exception to this rule is some of those regional players I mentioned above who have a bit of a spectrum lock in parts of some states (mostly in more rural areas), like Plateautel (New Mexico, Texas panhandle), i wireless (Iowa), Cellular One (Illinois), Cinty Bell (Indiana, Ohio); you go into one of these areas, you're not likely to find many AT&T towers for making calls with on your prepaid plan far off the well beaten path.

Now, don't let this scare you off! As long as you have map coverage for all the areas you'll typically find yourself, you'll most likely be fine. And even for the times you don't have AT&T coverage and you need to make an emergency call to 911? The nearest GSM tower, no matter who owns it, has to take, route and connect your call to the nearest PSAP for your reception area. You might not be able to call a tow truck or kindly old Aunt Harriet to let her know you'll be late, but if the engine is on fire or you broke a limb, you'll be able to call emergency services. Make sense?

I did confirm on h2o that you can add another phone. Thy give you $10 off each additional phone plan and the plan details are tied to each specific phone. No sharing of data etc.

Clarification for others: $40+ plans only, and it's been available since April. The deal is underwhelming at best. There's better family plan options on the GSM spectrum than H2O... interestingly enough, is's Consumer Cellular since the AT&T MVNO price restructuring.

I'm probably going to go with republic.

You made your choice, good for you. Stick with it and get on with your life and stop debating further, as you've already wasted several hundred dollars in opportunity cost since June as is. I hope it works out for you, and you don't get burned by their terms of service with your data usage.

Be well.

[Daley]

What do you mean from a terms of service perspective?

Sorry Baylor, but you already used up your last free help token a couple weeks ago. You want cheap, you want reliable, and you want to feed your data habit. I can't give you what you want. Nobody can. Until you either value reliable more than you do data or realize reliable data can't co-exist with the prices you want to pay, any guidance I offer is nothing but dust and ashes in your world.

Good luck.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

Okay... given you're already on Ring Plus and your numbers are tied to Google Voice, truthfully? Going PAYG isn't really going to get you much cheaper than $5/month anyway (P'tel being the cheapest per minute PAYG offering available for your handset at 5¢ with a minimum monthly cost of $5, Airvoice and Spot can get you down into the $2.50-3.50 range, but run 10¢/minute and can include additional monthly costs.

After looking at Airvoice, I think you might be right.  I understand that they charge a $1 monthly fee, but I expect I will be using more than 30MB, and at that range, it still makes it cheaper than Ptel.  I don't know much about Airvoice's reputation though, so if you have reservations about them I would like to hear it.

If you're getting under that threshold (or think the RP $6 Harrison plan is viable), you might want to re-evaluate the value of keeping the devices in your life at all. If you'd rather keep them around and given your current setup, you might as well ride out the RP gravy train for as long as it lasts or fits your needs.

I do still need a mobile communications device.  I am the sole means of transportation for my family, which means I am often dropping off and picking up my wife and/or children and will need to stay in contact with them because of this.  Of course, a Nexus 5 is overkill for this task, but I make extensive use of its other functions (while doing my best to avoid excessive use of mobile data) and so it is a luxury I am prepared to pay for.

RingPlus is a good deal, but if I am going to add a home VoIP phone, I might as well leverage the service to further cut down on cellular usage and save additional money.  A rough estimate on my part would have my costs with Airvoice+voip.ms somewhere around $17-$20.  This isn't much of a savings over my current set up, but it would add a degree of redundancy by introducing a home VoIP system that wouldn't be reliant on cellular networks.

The only compelling reason to switch up services at this point is to switch for the sake of stability and customer support, and those changes may lead you to spending more than you are currently. I believe in quality over quantity and paying for what you need, and if you're on board with that, I'll be happy to help optimize accordingly; otherwise you've already taken things about as far as you can.

I would be interested in any ideas you have, of course.

The VOIP.ms+CSipSimple idea is very viable, and if KakaoTalk is working for you, go for it. The Kik, Nimbuzz and XMS recommendations are primarily based on a measure between terms of service, privacy policy, platform availability, and overall data compression/usage on messaging. They're the least offensive and software stable click-and-install messaging apps I've found short of configuring your own using XMPP.

It isn't exactly that KakaoTalk is working for me (in fact, it proved to be quite an irritant recently), but that I do not wish to multiply communications apps and thus introduce further complexity into the situation, as this would be a disincentive for my wife, who is not as enthusiastic about reducing communications expenditures as I am.  I think I will go with KakaoTalk for the time being, but will keep in mind your suggestions as well.  I had considered Google Hangout since that is pre-installed on the Nexus, but I noticed that for it to operate properly, I needed to authorize background mobile data on Google Play services as well, and this would negate some of the savings gained by using an IM app.

As to the Korea situation, so long as you have proper SIP account credentials, you can roll it and VOIP.ms into a singular device by using an ATA that supports two SIP accounts on one FXS port, like the OBi100. Then you can just set up dial plans to route the Korea calls through the one carrier and the remaining through the other. More specific advice would require knowing who the current VoIP provider is. You can PM me if you'd rather keep things a bit more private on this point.

I would be interested in doing something like that.  Unfortunately, the service is provided by myLG070, and my Korean isn't good enough to battle my way through that website.  I'll see if I can enlist the assistance of my (admittedly non-technical) wife to work out the settings.  If I can get the SIP settings worked out, would your solution work for incoming calls as well?

Glad to be of help, and hope this gives you a bit extra direction.

Thanks again for the assistance.

[Daley]

lots of stuff

Let me see if I can hit it a chunk at a time.

Airvoice is fine, they're a good company and they're on the no fuss approved list with myself. (Even my mother, Ma Daley, uses the Airvoice $10/month plan.) If there's a package that works for your needs, they're good. That said, when you're targeting the sub $10/month range... don't mince pennies and be willing to pay for what you need. Find the wireless carrier that both gives you the best coverage for your area and balances with the cheapest costs. If Ring Plus has served you well, stay put since you're already a customer. If you'd rather go with a T-Mo based MVNO, you won't get cheaper rates than P'tel, who like Airvoice is a great outfit. When you're dealing with price differences between plans from various providers of maybe $2-3 a month in this range? Don't aim for lowest cost, go for highest quantity for the money so long as it doesn't impact service reliability. It's better to spend a couple extra bucks and have a cushion to work with if you're going to spend the money in the first place.

Basically, relax on this front. You're doing great already. Under $20 a month between mobile and home phone will be excellent, even if you don't optimize to the nth degree.

The more I learn about your setup and read into the situation, I'm inclined to agree that VOIP.ms will likely be your best option for a home VoIP carrier. I did a little research on the whole Lucky Goldstar Uplus Samsung Galaxy Player 070 WiFi phone setup. Basically, it looks like an open Android handset without a GSM/CDMA radio (an Android MP3 player with WiFi). As such, I doubt you'll be able to yank SIP credentials to use in another device as the service is provided through a dedicated app, but it doesn't mean we can't work it to our advantage. Since it sounds like the LG UPlus and KakaoTalk ideas are inherited infrastructure to keep communications cheap going across the Pacific and the investment has already been made, let's work with what we've already got and bring the mountain to Mohammed so to speak.

Going with VOIP.ms will let you set up sub accounts. We can leverage this to our advantage to turn the Galaxy 070 and each Nexus 5 into additional house phones when on WiFi (exactly like line extensions at an office). Install CSipSimple on all three, and configure accordingly. We might not be able to bring the LG UPlus service to an ATA or the Nexus handsets (unless they offer a stand-alone Android app and concurrent login on the same account from multiple handsets), but we've effectively used the Galaxy 070 as a handset for your new home phone line. If you'd like to keep your Google Voice number but ditch Google Voice, port it over and use it for the home phone number with VOIP.ms if you don't want to port it to a longer established MVNO as your mobile number.

Long post short, I think you were on the right track with your initial ideas... just don't sweat the mobile plan prices and usage levels as much as you have been. If you've justified the need to keep the service and can still keep it between $5-10 a month, you're doing great!

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

The more I learn about your setup and read into the situation, I'm inclined to agree that VOIP.ms will likely be your best option for a home VoIP carrier. I did a little research on the whole Lucky Goldstar Uplus Samsung Galaxy Player 070 WiFi phone setup. Basically, it looks like an open Android handset without a GSM/CDMA radio (an Android MP3 player with WiFi). As such, I doubt you'll be able to yank SIP credentials to use in another device as the service is provided through a dedicated app, but it doesn't mean we can't work it to our advantage. Since it sounds like the LG UPlus and KakaoTalk ideas are inherited infrastructure to keep communications cheap going across the Pacific and the investment has already been made, let's work with what we've already got and bring the mountain to Mohammed so to speak.

Sadly, I have the older version of Mohammed:



Still, I suppose I can just purchase an ATA and run with a second phone.  Do you still recommend the OBI100 given the more limited circumstances of its usage?

[Daley]

Sadly, I have the older version of Mohammed

Well, fudge.

Do you still recommend the OBI100 given the more limited circumstances of its usage?

Aye, or you can use the Nexus(es - or would that be Nexii?) as well.

[annaraven]

I just forwarded my daughter to read this thread. She's currently paying $25 a month to AT&T for a FEATURE phone! The only tower coverage in her town are AT&T and Verizon, with AT&T better. So - would it be possible for her to switch to something cheap for now with someone else? She wants to stay with AT&T-based carriers due to the coverage. She does not have Wifi available hardly anywhere except at home, (not even at her college!) so Republic is out. Eventually, she'll be swapping to a smartphone - her old beast is on its last legs but she wants to use it until it dies.

I could only find $30 plans with Airvoice but that has data and she isn't currently doing any data. She thought Ting looked great but is Sprint based and that's useless to her. Suggestions for a carrier that would be cheaper than AT&T for her with her current phone, with decent rates for when she switches to a smartphone?

And, thank you again for all your help. Onavo Count is helping a lot with figuring out my data usage. So when we're finally unlocked, I'll have a good solid idea of how much data I'll actually need, and be able to save money.

[Daley]

I could only find $30 plans with Airvoice but that has data and she isn't currently doing any data. She thought Ting looked great but is Sprint based and that's useless to her. Suggestions for a carrier that would be cheaper than AT&T for her with her current phone, with decent rates for when she switches to a smartphone?

Depends on usage levels. Airvoice is one of the best and most reasonably priced AT&T based MVNOs at the low end, and competitive with data prices at the MVNO high end. If she's already on GoPhone's $25 monthly plan for 250 minutes and "unlimited" messaging (which is the only AT&T $25 feature phone plan I know of)... short of perhaps reducing her minute usage and putting a massive dent in texting numbers to not make the plan worth keeping and be able to make Airvoice's $10/month plan work, there's not really anywhere cheaper to go. Consumer Cellular might be an option, but they're postpaid, and you still need hard numbers to see if it's worth it. Hard to make any recommendations without numbers, and my provider list is kept pretty short per carrier (with a focus on a balance between good price and good quality) to make decisions easier. There's not many places left to go with a focus on quality if the usual suspects don't fit the bill.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

Aye, or you can use the Nexus(es - or would that be Nexii?) as well.

I think I'll give it a test run on my own phone (maybe try out Airvoice too) and go from there based on the experience.  Thanks for the help.  BTW, what is your opinion of RingPlus.  I'll probably be leaving my wife with them at least until I get things figured out better.

[annaraven]

I could only find $30 plans with Airvoice but that has data and she isn't currently doing any data. She thought Ting looked great but is Sprint based and that's useless to her. Suggestions for a carrier that would be cheaper than AT&T for her with her current phone, with decent rates for when she switches to a smartphone?

Depends on usage levels. Airvoice is one of the best and most reasonably priced AT&T based MVNOs at the low end, and competitive with data prices at the MVNO high end. If she's already on GoPhone's $25 monthly plan for 250 minutes and "unlimited" messaging (which is the only AT&T $25 feature phone plan I know of)... short of perhaps reducing her minute usage and putting a massive dent in texting numbers to not make the plan worth keeping and be able to make Airvoice's $10/month plan work, there's not really anywhere cheaper to go. Consumer Cellular might be an option, but they're postpaid, and you still need hard numbers to see if it's worth it. Hard to make any recommendations without numbers, and my provider list is kept pretty short per carrier (with a focus on a balance between good price and good quality) to make decisions easier. There's not many places left to go with a focus on quality if the usual suspects don't fit the bill.

Tha problem is - I don't see the $10 a month plan. Do you have a link? The lowest I even see is $30. She doesn't need unlimited. She just needs cheap.

[Daley]

Tha problem is - I don't see the $10 a month plan. Do you have a link? The lowest I even see is $30. She doesn't need unlimited. She just needs cheap.

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/Plans.aspx

Rightmost, gray header. 250 Minute Plan - $10. Direct plan link: https://www.airvoicewireless.com/PlansC.aspx

Take note of the word OR. It's a $10 monthly plan, but it's structured like PAYG. 250 minutes OR 500 texts OR ~150MB of data OR some lesser combination of each service up until $10 of usage. I just make a point to highlight this as there's been confusion in the past with people thinking it was AND and getting all giddy over the price, and then being shocked when they've burned through their entire balance a week in. It's a good deal, but it's not that good.

[Baylor3217]

For republic wireless and this moto x that I'm looking at buying, do I have to buy it from Republic?  The phone they offer only has 16GB and I've been looking at either getting a used one with 16 or getting a 32GB which I currently have with my iPhone.

There's is $299 so I'm also looking to see if I can make a more cost effective purchase.

[_JT]

What does it mean to be "without partner roaming"? Does that mean if I travel, I might have no phone service?

It means that on AT&T postpaid, you typically get free roaming onto T-Mobile/Plateautel/Cellular One/Cincinatti Bell/i wireless/[insert other obscure regional carrier here] GSM towers if there are no AT&T GSM towers available. On prepaid MVNOs like Airvoice, you can only make calls on AT&T towers. With major metropolitan areas and interstates, this typically isn't a problem as there's consistent coverage... and being on an AT&T MVNO, you're going to have a far larger coverage map (even in the sticks) than any T-Mobile MVNO, and honestly there aren't many places there's a T-Mo tower where there isn't an AT&T one. The only minor exception to this rule is some of those regional players I mentioned above who have a bit of a spectrum lock in parts of some states (mostly in more rural areas), like Plateautel (New Mexico, Texas panhandle), i wireless (Iowa), Cellular One (Illinois), Cinty Bell (Indiana, Ohio); you go into one of these areas, you're not likely to find many AT&T towers for making calls with on your prepaid plan far off the well beaten path.

Now, don't let this scare you off! As long as you have map coverage for all the areas you'll typically find yourself, you'll most likely be fine. And even for the times you don't have AT&T coverage and you need to make an emergency call to 911? The nearest GSM tower, no matter who owns it, has to take, route and connect your call to the nearest PSAP for your reception area. You might not be able to call a tow truck or kindly old Aunt Harriet to let her know you'll be late, but if the engine is on fire or you broke a limb, you'll be able to call emergency services. Make sense?

As an extra data point, it turns out I've actually had partner roaming turned off on my phone for the past year, during which time I've driven cross country twice with no issues. I'm also an AT&T user.

[VuwylkOnlezzyen]

For republic wireless and this moto x that I'm looking at buying, do I have to buy it from Republic?  The phone they offer only has 16GB and I've been looking at either getting a used one with 16 or getting a 32GB which I currently have with my iPhone.

There's is $299 so I'm also looking to see if I can make a more cost effective purchase.

You have to buy it from them if you're going to use it on their network. Their phones have a special set up.

[Kevan]

Sadly, I have the older version of Mohammed:

This could provoke worldwide rioting, you know . . . :-o

[Simple Abundant Living]

Re: Airvoice $10 plan rollover?

I put my dd on this $10 plan with her iphone.  The first month she used $2.50 and we just figured she lost the other credit.  I must have set up some kind of auto-pay, (which I couldn't remember doing) but now her balance says $17.50 on her account.  This is great if it is correct, but I haven't talked to airvoice to confirm it.  Any one else have this?  We are still in the process of getting out of contract with ATT so we can make the switch for the rest of the family.  It would be great to know if unused $ rolls over from the previous month.

[Daley]

Re: Airvoice $10 plan rollover?

Correct, the unused balance on the $10 plan does roll over so long as the account stays active. It is one of the perks to the plan. :)

The rollover concept, however, does not apply to unused data on their unlimited talk and text plans.

[RootofGood]

Any recent experiences with Freedompop for phone service? 

I'm thinking about snagging a spring evo 4g or an epic touch off ebay/craigslist and doing the "bring your own device" option at freedompop.  It looks like I can get a phone this way for $50-100 and free service on a monthly basis. 

FYI, I rarely use my cell phone.  Usage is under 100 minutes/month and usually under 100 MB/mo.  I'm currently on Virgin mobile at $25/mo for 300 minutes talk, unlimited text and data. 

[arebelspy]

Any recent experiences with Freedompop for phone service? 

Pretty decent, as long as your reception for the area is good.

On the actual officially branded FreedomPop phone, the battery life sucks and the phone quality is meh, but if you don't use a phone that much and just want it for the rare and in case scenario and the data, it's great.

[Simple Abundant Living]

Daley,

I have basic phone at home (I have Centurylink internet and basic phone for $50/mo).  If I change my cell phone plan from ATT, I would like to be able to make long distance calls from home.  Would getting a prepaid card be the best?  Or do you have a better suggestion?