Communications & Tech - The ISP, VoIP and Cellphone Superguide

[Daley]

Sorry for the delayed reply, but thank you very much for getting me going in the right direction!

Glad to help!

[MissGina]

First Thank you I.P. Daley for this post!

Second i have a question, or need conformation on what to do based on all that I have read in this thread. I think I spent most of my weekend doing research on what my options are.

Before reading this thread, I got my 69 year old Mom a Virgin Mobile iPhone 4.  (She has an iPad and I figured it would be easy for her to use this phone since iPad and iPhone are quite similar). I have her on the $35 a month plan, but she needs to be on a Pay as you go plan because she will only use the phone a few times a month and doesn't need any data (it's her first cellphone and only needs it to call me or my sister to pick her up from knitting class or hair dresser when she is all done. She doesn't like asking other people to use their phone to call us).
Can I call Virgin and ask them to switch us to non monthly billing or is there a better option that doesn't involve buying other phone? I have until 11/7/13 to return phone if I need to.

For me, my 2 year contract is up with Verizon on 11/3/13 and I have iPhone 4S. I'm going to break the law and go with P+ however I do get $250 from my job for a new phone. Should I buy a iPhone 4S GSM to give me more Prepaid options?


Thank you!

[notquitefrugal]

Just a heads up, I'm sure it's probably been covered before, but here goes: I had to call Airvoice to have them enable my voicemail and data on the $10 plan. Other than that, no hitches at all. My number got ported Saturday night, about 36 hours after I submitted the port request.

[Daley]

First Thank you I.P. Daley for this post!

Second i have a question, or need conformation on what to do based on all that I have read in this thread. I think I spent most of my weekend doing research on what my options are.

Before reading this thread, I got my 69 year old Mom a Virgin Mobile iPhone 4.  (She has an iPad and I figured it would be easy for her to use this phone since iPad and iPhone are quite similar). I have her on the $35 a month plan, but she needs to be on a Pay as you go plan because she will only use the phone a few times a month and doesn't need any data (it's her first cellphone and only needs it to call me or my sister to pick her up from knitting class or hair dresser when she is all done. She doesn't like asking other people to use their phone to call us).
Can I call Virgin and ask them to switch us to non monthly billing or is there a better option that doesn't involve buying other phone? I have until 11/7/13 to return phone if I need to.

For me, my 2 year contract is up with Verizon on 11/3/13 and I have iPhone 4S. I'm going to break the law and go with P+ however I do get $250 from my job for a new phone. Should I buy a iPhone 4S GSM to give me more Prepaid options?


Thank you!

Take the Virgin Mobile phone back IMMEDIATELY! There is A) not any cheap enough per minute prepaid plans on Virgin Mobile worth using in the first place, let alone small enough for your mother's use, and B) they won't let you take a smartphone to a per minute plan anyway. If you wanted an easy to use cellphone for an elderly woman who's never had one before, buying an iPhone (even if it's only $200) is not the option! Something with big numeric buttons and a loud speaker is all you need, and it doesn't sound like anyone should be spending more than $5 a month on service. Airvoice (AT&T) and Spot Mobile (T-Mobile) will probably be able to let you each come in under $5 a month using their PAYG plans. You should be able to pick up a carrier unlocked GSM phone with big buttons off Amazon or Ebay for around $50. Look for carrier unlocked Just5 or Snapfon handsets, or just do a search for "GSM senior phone". Here's just a couple links off Amazon:

Safe Talk Senior Mobile Phone (referral link)
YEZZ Z1 YZ800 (referral link)
(Note, I'm not recommending these specifically, they're just the two cheapest options that came up for carrier unlocked GSM senior phone off Ebay that hit under the $50 price point. Research research research!)

There's no shortage to find once you know about 'em.

As for your own iPhone situation, if PagePlus has a package that suits your needs at the right price, you want to stick with the whole iPhone thing, your Verizon coverage has been fine already, and you don't care about breaking ToS and are willing to take the consequences of doing so if they pull the plug on you, then there's no sense buying more stuff. New phones generate more electronic waste. Just because you're being given money to buy a phone doesn't mean you need to spend it.

That said, the carrier unlocked GSM 4S model would have far more carrier options.

[MissGina]

First Thank you I.P. Daley for this post!

Second i have a question, or need conformation on what to do based on all that I have read in this thread. I think I spent most of my weekend doing research on what my options are.

Before reading this thread, I got my 69 year old Mom a Virgin Mobile iPhone 4.  (She has an iPad and I figured it would be easy for her to use this phone since iPad and iPhone are quite similar). I have her on the $35 a month plan, but she needs to be on a Pay as you go plan because she will only use the phone a few times a month and doesn't need any data (it's her first cellphone and only needs it to call me or my sister to pick her up from knitting class or hair dresser when she is all done. She doesn't like asking other people to use their phone to call us).
Can I call Virgin and ask them to switch us to non monthly billing or is there a better option that doesn't involve buying other phone? I have until 11/7/13 to return phone if I need to.

For me, my 2 year contract is up with Verizon on 11/3/13 and I have iPhone 4S. I'm going to break the law and go with P+ however I do get $250 from my job for a new phone. Should I buy a iPhone 4S GSM to give me more Prepaid options?


Thank you!

Take the Virgin Mobile phone back IMMEDIATELY! There is A) not any cheap enough per minute prepaid plans on Virgin Mobile worth using in the first place, let alone small enough for your mother's use, and B) they won't let you take a smartphone to a per minute plan anyway. If you wanted an easy to use cellphone for an elderly woman who's never had one before, buying an iPhone (even if it's only $200) is not the option! Something with big numeric buttons and a loud speaker is all you need, and it doesn't sound like anyone should be spending more than $5 a month on service. Airvoice (AT&T) and Spot Mobile (T-Mobile) will probably be able to let you each come in under $5 a month using their PAYG plans. You should be able to pick up a carrier unlocked GSM phone with big buttons off Amazon or Ebay for around $50. Look for carrier unlocked Just5 or Snapfon handsets, or just do a search for "GSM senior phone". Here's just a couple links off Amazon:

Safe Talk Senior Mobile Phone (referral link)
YEZZ Z1 YZ800 (referral link)
(Note, I'm not recommending these specifically, they're just the two cheapest options that came up for carrier unlocked GSM senior phone off Ebay that hit under the $50 price point. Research research research!)

There's no shortage to find once you know about 'em.

As for your own iPhone situation, if PagePlus has a package that suits your needs at the right price, you want to stick with the whole iPhone thing, your Verizon coverage has been fine already, and you don't care about breaking ToS and are willing to take the consequences of doing so if they pull the plug on you, then there's no sense buying more stuff. New phones generate more electronic waste. Just because you're being given money to buy a phone doesn't mean you need to spend it.

That said, the carrier unlocked GSM 4S model would have far more carrier options.

Thanks so much!! I'm going to let her pick a more senior type phone from Amazon among all of those choices! I had no idea they had phones for seniors with those big buttons!

And I agree with you, just because my job is offering the money doesn't mean I need to use it! If only they would offer to pay the monthly bill like they do for the more senior folks!
 
Thanks again and I'm so happy to be free from my cell phone contract in 13 days!!!

[Insanity]

IP - Just wanted to thank you for the VOIPo recommendation.  I went with them and just put the order in as we were satisfied enough to transition over from our current cable provider's triple play.  We've had some choppiness, but I think that's when we've been streaming content as well as I'm working (doing website security assessments + citrix desktop to another client).  Next is getting the Motorola surfboard cable modem, dropping to the two bundle (internet and TV) and returning the equipment (might include a second box on that as well). 

Overall savings: $40-$50 a month when it is all said and done.


Still have to make that cell phone decision.

[Daley]

Thanks so much!! I'm going to let her pick a more senior type phone from Amazon among all of those choices! I had no idea they had phones for seniors with those big buttons!

And I agree with you, just because my job is offering the money doesn't mean I need to use it! If only they would offer to pay the monthly bill like they do for the more senior folks!
 
Thanks again and I'm so happy to be free from my cell phone contract in 13 days!!!

Good to hear, and glad to help! :)

IP - Just wanted to thank you for the VOIPo recommendation.  I went with them and just put the order in as we were satisfied enough to transition over from our current cable provider's triple play.  We've had some choppiness, but I think that's when we've been streaming content as well as I'm working (doing website security assessments + citrix desktop to another client).  Next is getting the Motorola surfboard cable modem, dropping to the two bundle (internet and TV) and returning the equipment (might include a second box on that as well). 

Overall savings: $40-$50 a month when it is all said and done.


Still have to make that cell phone decision.

Great to hear! The only recommendation I can make to improve call quality under heavy load is to do proper QoS packet shaping at the router, ensuring the VoIP packets get top priority over the Citrix and streaming media. Pretty easy to do with most routers and their settings.

[TwoWheels]

I've been using Airvoice and my new Motorola XT560 for a week or two now and I love it. But I'm slightly disappointed with the "free SMS with Google Voice" thing, which isn't as seamless or practical as I was hoping. Specifically, it appears that in order to receive SMS messages (somewhat) immediately, I need to enable background data and auto sync (Settings > Accounts and Sync), which uses a few megabytes of data per hour* when I'm not on WiFi. At $.066/MB this pretty much negates the benefit of using Google Voice. Based on the research I've done, here are my options:
- Root my XT560 and upgrade to the newest version of Android, which allows you to configure mobile data usage per application. (The XT560 is locked to Android 2.3, where all you get is a global setting.)
- Install an app that allows me to restrict background data to WiFi for individual applications. Unfortunately, all the apps I've found require root access (with the possible exception of JuiceDefender, but from the documentation it's not clear whether it will do what I want).
- Disable mobile data and tell people to call me rather than text if it's urgent.
- Give up on Google Voice. Obviously $.02 per message is nothing to get bent out of shape over – free would be better though. :)

Is there anything else I'm missing? I think next I will try getting JuiceDefender. With all its customizability hopefully I'll be able to get it working for me.

* IMO this is a ridiculous amount of background data. One positive to rooting my phone is that I'd be able to uninstall all of the Motorola crapware.

[jawisco]

Great to hear! The only recommendation I can make to improve call quality under heavy load is to do proper QoS packet shaping at the router, ensuring the VoIP packets get top priority over the Citrix and streaming media. Pretty easy to do with most routers and their settings.

Hi IP  - is this "QoS packet shaping" something that can be done with the Google Voice/Obi 100 setup?   I did a search and didn't find anything, but figured if anyone would know, it would be you...

[Daley]

Great to hear! The only recommendation I can make to improve call quality under heavy load is to do proper QoS packet shaping at the router, ensuring the VoIP packets get top priority over the Citrix and streaming media. Pretty easy to do with most routers and their settings.

Hi IP  - is this "QoS packet shaping" something that can be done with the Google Voice/Obi 100 setup?   I did a search and didn't find anything, but figured if anyone would know, it would be you...

You could do that with your router, but it's not going to improve call quality with that sort of setup. GV just stinks for call quality.

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Not especially. There's a reason why I used Kik as an SMS alternative with the frequent texters back when I was on Android. Avoided the Google data pit. GV used to be leaner, but not a great deal. Use a lean data, instant messenger alternative or just pay for the texts.

Glad to hear you like the phone, though... and even happier to hear you got the situation straightened out!

[jawisco]

Great to hear! The only recommendation I can make to improve call quality under heavy load is to do proper QoS packet shaping at the router, ensuring the VoIP packets get top priority over the Citrix and streaming media. Pretty easy to do with most routers and their settings.

Hi IP  - is this "QoS packet shaping" something that can be done with the Google Voice/Obi 100 setup?   I did a search and didn't find anything, but figured if anyone would know, it would be you...

You could do that with your router, but it's not going to improve call quality with that sort of setup. GV just stinks for call quality.

Thanks, IP.  I haven't found GV call quality to be very bad - in two months of using, only once has been terrible and maybe 3-4 other mediocre/poor quality calls.  I was just wondering if I could make it even better...

[geekette]

I don't know that this has been mentioned, but iOS 7 has some new features to control your data usage.  It's not as granular as I would like, but I can now keep cellular data on, but turn it off for things like calendar, contacts, Facebook, browsers, mail, podcasts, iBooks, Passbook, stocks, maps, and a couple others.  I'm not sure why some apps are switchable and some are not (Feedly and FB are, but most others aren't).

Most of my texting is via iMessage, and I don't know how Airvoice will handle that when I switch over in December.  Would they charge each iMessage as a chunk of data? (1MB, or 7 cents) or does it stay "connected" and a dozen back and forth texts would use that 1MB?  I can't turn off cellular data for iMessage and keep it available for other stuff (although it's just a couple clicks to turn it back on if need be).

[Daley]

Most of my texting is via iMessage, and I don't know how Airvoice will handle that when I switch over in December.  Would they charge each iMessage as a chunk of data? (1MB, or 7 cents) or does it stay "connected" and a dozen back and forth texts would use that 1MB?  I can't turn off cellular data for iMessage and keep it available for other stuff (although it's just a couple clicks to turn it back on if need be).

Airvoice rounds each connected session up to the nearest kilobyte (KB) upon disconnection, and the only data you're billed for outside of that session rounding is the data you've used. Far more reasonable than AT&T's number pumping round-up-to-the-nearest-MB-per-session policy they have on their postpaid accounts.

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/TermsOfService.aspx

As to the new news on iOS7 and more fine grained data controls? It's about @$#%*!! time. Thanks for the heads up, I'll be letting a few folks know in meatspace about this one.

[Tennis Maniac]

Note on AirVoice auto renewal...  beware...

My wife and I have $150 in accumulated credit on our AirVoice accounts that I almost forfeited by trusting AirVoice's auto-renewal process.

Per their terms of service, if you let your minutes expire you cannot get them back.  Also, per their "privacy policy" they do not send an email notification when your credit card is nearing expiration or when your credit card is denied.  There is also no way of updating credit card information on their website. 

Alone, these policies are not a problem and I understand the reason behind each; but in practice AirVoice does not notify you that the card they have on file is going to expire and you lose your minutes the day after they try to process it for auto-renewal (and they don't notify you that there was a problem).

I was able to convince the supervisor I talked to that the combination of these policies puts an unreasonable expectation on the customer to remember and proactively notify AirVoice to update a soon-to-expire credit card BEFORE things go south and got my credit reinstated, but my account now has a note that I fully understand the policies and process.  :)

I will now be going back to monthly manual renewals and notifying myself using my calendar.  Boo!

Carry on.

[Unique User]

Help - The whole technological/telecommunications thing has me confuzzled.  It used to be easy, 3 phones (2 with data, 1 for the kid) all on a plan that was primarily paid for employers so was left with about $35 a month in cost.  Spouse's employer kicked us off their plan, so now am on extremely expensive Sprint plan, about $125 per month - basically unlimited talk and text at $50 for me and $40 for the kid, plus $20 for data for me and taxes.  I need to find a different option, but weighing everything is making me crazy.  I work from home, have reliable internet and am on the phone All The Time.  I use my phone for email when I am away from my office, occasional texting, occasional GPS need, occasional browser use when spouse has to know the answer to some ridiculous question NOW (like how many soybeans are grown in the US and what are they used for as we drive past soybean fields).  The kid has a phone for voice and text only.  My contract is up with Sprint, I have a LG Optimus phone that is ok, not great, but works just fine.  I hooked up my phone to Google Voice, but  disconnected in a day since I had trouble understanding what I was supposed to answer and wasn't sure how it worked.  Kid has an old (5 year old) LG slide phone, not a smartphone, not a touchscreen that is probably about to die.  I thought about Republic Wireless, but since this is my job, I really need reliability.  Can anyone advise?

[Daley]

Can anyone advise?

Definitely use a quality VoIP solution at home for your business line, and offload most (if not nearly all) of your calling onto it. Google Voice is not your solution, nor will MagicJack, Nettalk or Republic be. Look into VOIPo, PhonePower, and CallCentric. If you're out of the house and need to still potentially receive business related calls, just use the global call hunt feature with these providers (it rings both the VoIP line and your cellphone at the same time). Also give this a read:

VoIP and the return of the home phone

The rest of your usage would probably be well suited going with Ting. You should be able to take the phones you have with you currently... excuse the one that needs replacing. The kid should be learning valuable budgeting skills and contributing their share to the monthly bill. There's no shortage of used Sprint feature phones on Ebay that you can activate on Ting so long as they have a clean ESN. Advice for shopping used/refurb phones here:

Ask Daley: Southwest Colorado 2 – Cellphone Boogaloo

[Unique User]

Thanks for the advice, I'll check into it!

[Jack]

So I bought a Nexus 5 yesterday.

(Excuses: there aren't any new Nexus 4s from Google right now, I'm considering learning to develop for it, I need a new phone because my current one can't reliably make calls, I've been wanting a new phone since the Nexus 4 came out but held out another year due to this site and now feel an anti-mustachian sense of entitlement... and I just flat-out want it.)

Anyway, it appears(?) that the Nexus 5 supports GSM and CDMA with the same hardware, so given my limited understanding of cellular networks I think that it would be supported by AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint MVNOs. Here are the specs, so you can correct me if I'm wrong:

GSM: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz
CDMA: Band Class: 0/1/10
WCDMA: Bands: 1/2/4/5/6/8/19
LTE: Bands: 1/2/4/5/17/19/25/26/41

My current plan is with Virgin Mobile with 1200 minutes/unlimited (slow) data. I haven't been tracking my usage since VM's web site sucks, but since 10/23 I've used 73 minutes and 10 MB. (I think that's low; my typical usage is probably ~400 minutes and maybe a couple hundred MB.)

I also use Google Voice with my current phone and an ObiTalk VoIP box at home, and it works well for me (except that sometimes my VM voicemail picks up calls before my GV one does). If I bothered to set up GV over VoIP on my new phone I could probably cut my cellular minutes in half.

So finally, my question is this: given all that, which MVNO should I pick going forward? I'm not sure I'd be allowed to switch phones and keep my VM plan...

[abhe8]

i want to cut our monthly cell phone bill. i read the first few pages of the thread, but i'm still confused. we have sprint, 2 phones with just voice/text, no data. would not mind upgrading to a data plan but not sure its necessary. we use about 1400 mins and 300 texts per month, between the 2 phones.

is ting my best option? my phone will transfer but dh's is so old it wont, so he will need a new phone. i read MMM article on on Republic Wireless and he seemed to like it. is it improved since the original post? it looks like Ting could cut my bill from 95 to 55 per month but that still is more then i want to pay.

what would you recommend?

(home internet is Socket, flat rate of 42 per month. no home phone needed).

[Daley]

So I bought a Nexus 5 yesterday.
-snip-
So finally, my question is this: given all that, which MVNO should I pick going forward? I'm not sure I'd be allowed to switch phones and keep my VM plan...

With CDMA providers, even if the phone can support CDMA, it doesn't guarantee the carrier will activate it. This is why you can't technically take Verizon handsets to Sprint, Cricket, or inversely. I sincerely doubt VM will let you activate the N5.

Given that and the fact that you've now bought a shiny, you're best served to stick with GSM providers with the device in question and it'll likely be the easiest course of action. The three best and most competitively priced GSM MVNOs now are the same as they were before: Airvoice, P'tel and Spot.

i want to cut our monthly cell phone bill. i read the first few pages of the thread, but i'm still confused. we have sprint, 2 phones with just voice/text, no data. would not mind upgrading to a data plan but not sure its necessary. we use about 1400 mins and 300 texts per month, between the 2 phones.

is ting my best option? my phone will transfer but dh's is so old it wont, so he will need a new phone. i read MMM article on on Republic Wireless and he seemed to like it. is it improved since the original post? it looks like Ting could cut my bill from 95 to 55 per month but that still is more then i want to pay.

what would you recommend?

(home internet is Socket, flat rate of 42 per month. no home phone needed).

(highlights mine)

Ting is likely your best option for MVNO, but...

"No home phone needed," you say. Your family spends over 23 hours a month on the phone. How many of those hours are actually spent while mobile outside of the house versus time spent on your mobile phone while stationary in your house?

You want to save more money? Bring back the home phone using a VoIP service like VOIPo and stop using mobile phone service in your house to talk with people. Have a link. If you refuse to sacrifice mobility with your minutes, you're going to have to accept the fact that reliable mobile service costs more than stationary.

As to Republic? Republic's math is not favorable, it's customer service questionable, nor is its quality appropriate for the money spent. VoIP is your solution to saving money, but cutting corners and trying to sandwich VoIP into your mobile service stack is just asking for trouble.

[Daley]

Google Voice update

So, you know how I'm no great fan of Google Voice, and I say things like what price free and that people should pay for what they need?

http://blog.obihai.com/2013/10/important-message-about-google-voice.html

Nutshell? Google's dumping XMPP interoperability. They're abandoning the open standards that let GV users use the service with the Obihai ATA devices without paying for a third party VoIP provider. It'll be interesting to see how this news impacts Talkatone-based GV users as well, which I'm sure it will.

I don't want to say I told you so, but...

Now, imagine if Obihai had sold their ATA devices solely as a one trick pony: a Google Voice bridge. What if they hadn't opened the hardware up to handle open, industry standard SIP services in the first place? If not for Obihai's open standards support (and honestly, it was through open standards that GV support was even possible on the devices in the first place - but GV never used industry standards for VoIP communication) the Obi100's that I know a lot of you had purchased solely to use with Google Voice would be paperweights after May 15th next year. This is the same problem I speak towards with stuff like Ooma, MagicJack, NetTalk, Republic Wireless, TextNow and their ilk... or other "free" VoIP+SMS smartphone apps.

This is why I place such a fine point on carrier/provider unlocked, open standards hardware and providers that support bringing your own device, and provide a service that has to answer to some form of government regulation. It's why I skew towards SIP based VoIP providers that offer e911 support and GSM cellular providers instead of some mega-corp looking for lock-in, and I recommend staying away from "free" or subsidized services supported through datamining. In the long run, which is cheaper: re-investing in equipment every time you have to pull up stakes with a service provider for whatever reason(s) and starting over, or just changing the configuration settings on your equipment to another provider that uses the same technology?

The Obihai ATA+Google Voice users got lucky here, there's time and opportunity to pay to port the GV number out here if desired, and the hardware can still be used with another VoIP provider. Most others aren't this lucky when things go south. Spend your money where it counts, and support businesses for your communications needs (where you can) that provides no restrictions to their service other than paying for what you need.

[dorkus619]

Update and Kudos to I.P.Daley
October 1 - I switched to Ting with IP's guidance. I have managed to keep my data down to the SMALL bucket! With a $25 credit from using someone's referral link (they got $25 too!) AND the fact that Ting also credited me $47 to help with my Verizon Early Termination Fee, my first month was FREE. And next month will be free!

My total bill was $23 + $3.63 in surcharges and fees (this is unavoidable by any/all carriers and I believe varies by state/locale) = $26.63 total, paid by Ting in credits!

My experience so far:
Phone Activation: Bought a Sprint HTC EVO 4G LTE (fancy) for like $120 on eBay, good transaction. Activation took a couple hrs but worked perfectly.
Customer Service: Those people at Ting are delightful and communication is easy, laid back, down to earth.
Phone Service: Hmm...well group texts come in individually so that's annoying because I use this a lot with my teammates. Call quality is alright but I find myself saying "I'm sorry can you repeat that?" or "You're breaking up" a lot more than when I was with Verizon. Besides that, all is well! 

I guess it's a learning experience! Now I know that Sprint service isn't great here. Maybe an ATT MVNO would be better as a future experiment.

If you're planning to switch to Ting, you could use my referral link and we'll both get a credit. https://zljnfp1htd4.ting.com

[windyday]

I'm hoping for some help/advice about Google Voice.  I was searching the forums to figure out how to transfer my number to GV, when I came across I.P. Daley's Google Voice Update post. 

This is what I was planning to do... I have a personal (crappy) phone with a phone number I'd like to keep (I've had it for 10+ years). I also have a fully paid for iphone through work. I was planning to transfer my personal number to GV and drop it from our family's cell phone plan ($9.99 a month for the line plus a little more for fees/taxes), since I truly almost never use it.  I was going to use Talkatone on my iphone for the few times I do use it (and actually thought I might use the "line" more often, since it's usually the fact that I only carry one phone that keeps me from using the personal number).

But now I'm not sure if that plan will still work based on that update. Since it only costs me $10-$12 a month to keep it on our family plan, it doesn't make much sense to try to set it up through a discount carrier - the whole idea was to drop the cost of it completely, but still have it available for once in awhile use (i.e. calls over wi-fi, etc.). Any suggestions?

[Daley]

Any suggestions?

If you want to keep the number, and keep it as cost efficient as possible, port it over to VOIP.ms instead and then use it with an iOS based softphone. $10 to port, $1-1.50 a month to maintain the number, 1-1.5¢ a minute incoming or outgoing. You could keep the number for a fraction of the price, and still have a similar setup to what you were wanting to do with GV, only you'll have more control over your number and service. Better to pay for what you need.

But if even a couple bucks a month isn't worth it for you to keep the number, then I guess that settles how important that phone line truly is to you. Just remember, you make that jump and ditch it? You'll be 100% dependent upon other companies to supply your phone service out of the kindness of their own pocketbook (like you would have been using GV), and you won't be able to take your work number with you.

[Kevan]

My total bill was $23 + $3.63 in surcharges and fees (this is unavoidable by any/all carriers and I believe varies by state/locale)

For the record, Airvoice Wireless doesn't add surcharges, fees, or other stuff. The price you see is all you pay.

[Paul der Krake]

Another MVNO pay as you go rookie question:

I am considering purchasing a SIM from a GSM operator to give to family when they visit the United States from overseas. The usage would be short occasional bursts of a week or two, once a year at the *very* most. It would potentially remain dormant for 2-3 years before seeing any action.

Would the operator would be fine with very, very sparse usage, or would they somehow retire the SIM or the account it is associated with? Losing the number is fine as long as a new one can be obtained easily (without having to reorder a SIM and wait for it in the mail, basically), since I'm the only person calling that number.

[Daley]

Would the operator would be fine with very, very sparse usage, or would they somehow retire the SIM or the account it is associated with? Losing the number is fine as long as a new one can be obtained easily (without having to reorder a SIM and wait for it in the mail, basically), since I'm the only person calling that number.

Unfortunately, it's the SIM cards that are disposable. I don't know of an MVNO (or MNO for that matter) that will re-activate a SIM card that's had lapsed service or a closed account.

Cheapest option is to buy a small handful of SIM cards from the MVNO you plan on using through Ebay. Airvoice, P'tel and Spot Mobile SIM cards through that method can be had for a buck a pop or less depending on volume ordered. Just activate as needed, and a new number will be issued.

[jfer_rose]

I just made a confession in my journal and it occurs to me I should post here too. I had intended to switch to Airvoice as soon as my AT&T contract was up. It has been up now for about a month but I still have not made the switch. And here's why-- I'm not very tech savvy and I simply don't understand what I need to do next.

Here's where I am:
I have an Airvoice SIM card and it is cut down to size, ready to fit my iPhone 4S.
I contacted AT&T to have my phone unlocked. They tell me that it is unlocked, but according Airvoice Support website,  "f you cannot see Cellular Data Network then the iPhone is locked." (Source=https://www.airvoicewireless.com/SupportIphone.aspx). Well, on my supposedly unlocked phone I cannot see Cellular Data Network.

So what now? Any ideas? Please use simple terms as I'm not as savvy at this tech stuff as many of you here. Thanks so much!!!

[Daley]

So what now? Any ideas? Please use simple terms as I'm not as savvy at this tech stuff as many of you here. Thanks so much!!!

Let me guess, iOS7? *grumble* Bane of my existence these days, apologies if it's not going to be wholly simple. You can thank Apple and AT&T both for this. Read:

http://www.prepaidphonenews.com/2013/09/did-ios7-update-break-your-at-mvno.html

[jfer_rose]

So what now? Any ideas? Please use simple terms as I'm not as savvy at this tech stuff as many of you here. Thanks so much!!!

Let me guess, iOS7? *grumble* Bane of my existence these days, apologies if it's not going to be wholly simple. You can thank Apple and AT&T both for this. Read:

http://www.prepaidphonenews.com/2013/09/did-ios7-update-break-your-at-mvno.html

Thanks this is helpful. I had actually noticed this issue before my phone updated to ios 7 but I was not aware of the SIM card switch method. Now to find a non-ATT MVNO SIM card to use for the workaround...

[madage]

Thanks this is helpful. I had actually noticed this issue before my phone updated to ios 7 but I was not aware of the SIM card switch method. Now to find a non-ATT MVNO SIM card to use for the workaround...

Yeah, the Network Settings option has never been available with an AT&T or AT&T MVNO sim card installed. Honestly, the description of the card swap for iOS7 is the way I always did it on iOS6.

Regarding a non-ATT sim card, it is often possible to get a T-Mobile sim card for free or $0.99 shipped to your home. I think the online price is $10 right now, though. Some people have managed to sweet-talk T-Mobile store employees to just giving them a sim, but I don't know how often that happens. If you like, PM me and I'll send you an old cut-down T-Mobile sim for the cost of postage.

[Daley]

Brief personal aside and open letter of sorts:

Edit - 10 November 2013: Given the fact that this open letter has ground the utility of the thread to a halt, I will be greatly truncating its message and simply leaving it on my website. I should also point out that the people in question have not responded to this or any private queries. Just because I'm taking down what I've posted in this thread doesn't mean I stopped caring about others plagiarizing my content here and on Technical Meshugana.

Truthfully, the only thing more bothersome to me than people who do this sort of thing is not being able to help others in the first place. In the interest of getting the thread back on track, I've cut most of the content from this post. However, I'm leaving the last portion:

I know this is the internet, and that people "steal" content all the time. Information wants to be free, etcetera. I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is people monetizing this content without my permission and without attribution for their own benefit, passing it off as their own hard work, and then slapping it behind a copyright. My website's content is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0. Given MMM's generous non-ownership stance over forum content, consider anything I've posted here to be licensed likewise. You want to use it for your own personal gain? Go for it, but do so by the letter of the license. Give proper attribution and release under the same license, or contact me directly to arrange otherwise.

[Daley]

Google Update:

There's stuff afoot over with Google, regarding Android, Google+, Voice, Hangouts, and the changes being bandied about.

Nutshell? Google's dumping XMPP interoperability. They're abandoning the open standards that let GV users use the service with the Obihai ATA devices without paying for a third party VoIP provider. It'll be interesting to see how this news impacts Talkatone-based GV users as well, which I'm sure it will.

Dennis Bournique over at Prepaid Phone News is being positive about the changes regarding MMS bridging with T-Mobile and Google Voice, but couched within it is mention of end of life support for services like Talkatone and GrooveIP due to the shift to Google+, Hangouts, and cutting off XMPP interoperability, as well as more "native" integration of phone support with the Hangouts apps for Android and iOS. I'm sure a lot of you cheapskates here are all excited about these "positive" changes, but you should also pay attention to the bigger picture on what's going on at Google regarding their mobile platform and marketing strategies.

Google just pulled a “Facebook Home”: KitKat’s primary interface is Google Search - Ars Technica

Google Is Testing A Program That Tracks You Everywhere You Go - Business Insider Australia

The rapid succession of these news bits taken together should be raising some eyebrows, so ask yourself this: is low-quality "free" VoIP phone service worth letting Google monitor your day-to-day life this closely?

Something to think about before committing any farther on that front, smartphone and free service fans. Pay attention to how your life relates to your technology, and try not to sell yourself out for a few shiny beads. You're a human being, your life and your privacy is far more valuable than you realize. Be prudent with your choices, and remember that in a world where you can pay less than $8 for 5000 minutes of VoIP phone service a month? The paid alternatives are genuinely a trivial cost in relation to the price of free.

As I've said before... be frugal, not cheap.

[Insanity]

We both have said it before, IP.   When you don't pay for a service you are not the customer which means you are paying in some other way.

[madage]

Thanks this is helpful. I had actually noticed this issue before my phone updated to ios 7 but I was not aware of the SIM card switch method. Now to find a non-ATT MVNO SIM card to use for the workaround...

You can order a free sim from T-Mobile today with promo code NOVSIM. I don't know how long the code will last. You'll need a mini sim for an iPhone 3G or 3GS, micro for a 4 or 4S and a nano for any iPhone newer that.

[geekette]

Thank you for this madage.  I ordered one to round out my collection of sim cards (and hopefully make it easier to get airvoice running).

Oddly, they required a credit card number for the 0.00 balance due.  I gave 'em a quickly expiring virtual number.

[windyday]

Any suggestions?

If you want to keep the number, and keep it as cost efficient as possible, port it over to VOIP.ms instead and then use it with an iOS based softphone. $10 to port, $1-1.50 a month to maintain the number, 1-1.5¢ a minute incoming or outgoing.

Sorry for the delay, but thanks so much for the response!  I'm not too technically savvy in this arena so I've been trying to read up on softphones and VoIP and all that and have another question, if you don't mind... would I be able to do as you suggested and still send and receive text messages? I realize I didn't specify that in my original post, but I'd say I probably use my phone for texting as much as for calling. It's not a deal breaker, because I can use my work phone for texting, but I'd rather limit the number of personal texts I do on it. Thanks again for any insight!

[katieboo]

My $90 contract with Verizon is up, and I've made the move to Airvoice.

Went ahead and bought a refurbished Samsung Google Nexus S, before had a Verizon Iphone 4s. I chose Airvoice because of the cheap plans and cheap data rates, and the fact it was on AT&T. When shopping for an MVNO, I knew that I only wanted to be on Verizon or AT&T, no other networks.

Initially signed up for the $10 plan because I'm not a big talker or texter, personally. That said, after a few days on Airvoice, I'm wondering how I'll make $10 last a whole month.

So after researching some, I loaded both Phone for Google Voice and Talkatone on my phone in an effort to try to make free internet phone calls from my cell phone. Already have a Google voice account set up. Not having any luck getting either application to work. I've only spent a day trying, and honestly, this is all too complicated for me.

I think I just want to go with the $30 unlimited Airvoice plan, I just realized I don't want to have to do a bunch of configurations, and I do not want to port my old number to Google Voice. I want my old number on my Airvoice account.

As I'm struggling with how to make this all work, today, a really good professional networking opportunity presented itself. I don't want to mess with bad call quality, or stress over using up my minutes too soon, and then having to reload my card. Or worse, losing my number that I've had for many years.

I'm making significant efforts to simplify my life, so it looks like an unlimited plan is it for me. And I should be fine with 100MB, if not, I'll upgrade. What I need is to not stress over reaching talk and text limits.

$30 bucks is still better than $90.

Thanks for guide IP Daley.

[Daley]

I'm not too technically savvy in this arena so I've been trying to read up on softphones and VoIP and all that and have another question, if you don't mind... would I be able to do as you suggested and still send and receive text messages?

I can only say maybe. VOIPo and VOIP.ms both do support SMS text messaging, but the criteria is tight. In the case of VOIP.ms, you actually have to specifically purchase a number that supports it, IIRC. I don't know if you'd be able to do texting if you ported it over, maybe contact customer support and ask.

Thanks for guide IP Daley.

Glad to have helped. :)

[Jane]

This is such a great thread and I really appreciate all of the helpful advice. I was thinking of going with RW, but after reading some of the threads on here from I.P. Daley, it made me rethink the whole concept. I really dislike that they use a proprietary phone and that it costs $300 that would be lost if I switched plans. I read through the parts of the TOS that you referred to, and that was concerning to me as well.

My main usage is data with very little talk so I was thinking of going with the T-Mobile $30/month plan with 100 minutes of talk and unlimited data. I particularly like that it is up to 5GB of 4G speeds. I realize it is somewhat excessive to use a couple gigs of data a month but that is one area I'm willing to splurge on. I use it for keeping up with blog and personal business activities, streaming Pandora (I know, excessive), and it helps keep me sane when I am sitting in my little cubicle hell.

A few questions:

-Has anyone successfully BYOD? It says "This plan is only available for devices purchased from
Wal-Mart or devices activated on T-Mobile.com." Was wondering how they enforce this, if at all.

-If I do use a non T-Mobile device and switch the SIM card, will I still get the same data speeds?

-Any suggestions on good phones I could use on this plan that take advantage of the 4G network and have a decent camera? I currently have an iPHone 4 (not S) with Sprint, which if I understand that means I can't use it with other networks.


If you have suggestions for other plans that might be good for my type of usage, I'd love to read up on those as well. Thanks again for all the advice.

[anneinpdx]

Hi again all.   I wanted to come back and update on our progress.  This past month we got home phone service with VOIPo and I love having a home phone again.  Having the home phone allows me to switch from ATT to to the Airvoice $10/month plan.  My husband is on board to switch too but we are waiting to work out the kinks on my phone.   If this all goes well we ill be saving ~$100/month on our communications bill.  Sweet!

This thread has been so useful...I am wondering if anyone has any advice?  I stupidly upgraded my iPhone 4 to ios7.4 and I cannot get MMS/cell data working with Airvoice.  (I wanted the facetime audio option)   I know my phone successfully unlocked because I can get into the Cellular Data Network settings if I use a tmobile sim card but as soon as I put the airvoice card back, the settings revert and I can't access them anymore.  (EDIT: I used the background settings trick and can adjust the settings but still data/mms not working.  Not sure if the settings revert since I can't access this option without the tmobile sim...aargh!)  I tried the sim swap along with the settings listed on the airvoice website but no luck.  I looked into downgrading back to ios6 but it appears I can't do this. 

I am half tempted to just buy a non iPhone and sell this one but almost everyone I text uses an iPhone so most of my texts come over iMessage which drops my usage heavily.   

Does anyone here have any advice?

[Daley]

A few questions:

-Has anyone successfully BYOD? It says "This plan is only available for devices purchased from
Wal-Mart or devices activated on T-Mobile.com." Was wondering how they enforce this, if at all.

-If I do use a non T-Mobile device and switch the SIM card, will I still get the same data speeds?

-Any suggestions on good phones I could use on this plan that take advantage of the 4G network and have a decent camera? I currently have an iPHone 4 (not S) with Sprint, which if I understand that means I can't use it with other networks.


If you have suggestions for other plans that might be good for my type of usage, I'd love to read up on those as well. Thanks again for all the advice.

The plan used to be BYOD, but I noticed the change you referenced to the page a couple months back myself. This, I am unsure of currently. I normally scrounge HoFo for an answer to questions like this. While you're there, take note of the frequent billing problems and vanishing balance issues with some T-Mo prepaid customers. There's reasons why I don't particularly recommend them either.

Only if you have a pentaband GSM phone (typically T-Mobile US branded models). T-Mo is rolling out data support on the 1900MHz band in a lot of cities, but their high speed network coverage is pretty limited to metro areas all around, no matter what GSM band you use with them for data connectivity.

As for phones, if you're wanting a "good" cameraphone, you'll need to stick close to flagship model smartphones typically. Stuff like the Galaxy S series, the Google Nexus, HTC One, etc. Have a tool to look up based on criteria. The Nexus 5 is a pentaband GSM + CDMA world phone, and can even be activated on CDMA MVNOs like Ting (it should even theoretically activate on PagePlus after flashing to disable LTE support - but that's a whole other can of worms).

If you've got a Sprint iPhone4, Ting has recently started a beta program for 4/4S activations through them. Your data habit will be expensive assuming minimal voice and text usage, but it is an option that wouldn't require you to buy another phone and keep the coverage you're already used to.

As for other plans, excluding the T-Mobile $30 one, pretty well all MVNOs worth doing business with that'll give you 2GB+ of data are going to run you around the $45+/month mark (just like Ting), but you'll likely get more available calling and texting usage than you can shake a stick at. If T-Mo coverage is fine, P'tel and Spot both do 2GB for $50, Airvoice (AT&T) and Spot both do 3GB for $60, GoSmart (T-Mobile owned) does 5GB "unlimited" plans for $45, and Aio (AT&T owned) does 7GB for $70. Data is expensive, and the only way you're going to get "cheap" mobile data is through compromises that you might not like given you're astute enough to read terms of service agreements.

Find out what you're actually using in data a month, and see what you can live with. I know you want to indulge on this front, but it almost might be cheaper for you to gut the Pandora usage on your data, and go with Spotify's offline mode... you could just download what you want to listen to in advance instead of using expensive data to get your custom music fix. I don't personally understand why people pay so much money for the privilege to borrow music, especially in these parts of the intertrons... but *shrug*. Your money, Jane. With that context in mind, please take this last bit of advice in the spirit of concern for your well being: if your job is so soul crushing that you think you need these things to survive your job, you might want to consider a vocational change.

[Daley]

This thread has been so useful...I am wondering if anyone has any advice?  I stupidly upgraded my iPhone 4 to ios7.4 and I cannot get MMS/cell data working with Airvoice.

-snip-

I am half tempted to just buy a non iPhone and sell this one but almost everyone I text uses an iPhone so most of my texts come over iMessage which drops my usage heavily.

Apple used to have something called the iPhone Configuration Utility for business/enterprise that you could use to change those settings, but I'm unsure if it'll work with iOS7 now, and they've gone out of their way to hide anything useful on that front now. I know you can still download IPCU from their support site, but I'm not sure what to say beyond that. Apple's also made it ridiculously difficult to downgrade to iOS6 now as well. This is what happens when you pay through the nose for the privilege of owning a walled garden device, you're only allowed to do what the manufacturer ultimately permits you to do.

Honestly, at this point, I've been telling my AT&T iPhone model clients running iOS7 wanting to use an AT&T MVNO to ditch the fool device and go Android. Let some other sucker inherit the misery. Given the charlie foxtrot over iOS7, especially with AT&T devices and MVNOs these past few months, it's pretty clear that Apple and AT&T both don't give a crap about their users. Sorry I don't have better advice. This issue is complicated and nuanced at this point, and it involves AT&T and how they manage MVNOs, MVNO SIM card identification, Apple's auto-configuration utility, and a mess of other fiddly bits. You aren't the only one hurting by this situation, I assure you.

[anneinpdx]

Thanks IP for the fast response!  I've been getting a lot of dead ends searching the internet so at least I know my google skills aren't completely broken...I will try that utility and if that doesn't work I'll have to choose between ditching the iPhone or going to SpotMobile. 

SpotMobile was my original choice for their $12 plan but I ordered a pre-cut sim from ebay and their customer service rep couldn't figure out how to activate it.  After 30 non-productive min on the phone I hung up and sent an email with a detailed explanation of my situation and 1 day later I got back a form letter with no helpful info at all.  I decided to go Airvoice instead which was super easy to deal with in terms of porting and activation...not so easy on the configuration front.   I sent them a message but am not feeling hopeful.

Anyway maybe this will help someone else reading and trying to figure out their mvno plans. 

[Daley]

SpotMobile was my original choice for their $12 plan but I ordered a pre-cut sim from ebay and their customer service rep couldn't figure out how to activate it.

Maybe consider going P'tel instead if you're open to T-Mobile coverage?

[madage]

My main usage is data with very little talk so I was thinking of going with the T-Mobile $30/month plan with 100 minutes of talk and unlimited data. I particularly like that it is up to 5GB of 4G speeds. I realize it is somewhat excessive to use a couple gigs of data a month but that is one area I'm willing to splurge on. I use it for keeping up with blog and personal business activities, streaming Pandora (I know, excessive), and it helps keep me sane when I am sitting in my little cubicle hell.

A few questions:

-Has anyone successfully BYOD? It says "This plan is only available for devices purchased from Wal-Mart or devices activated on T-Mobile.com." Was wondering how they enforce this, if at all.

I'm not positive, but I don't think this wording has recently changed. It just means you can't walk into a T-Mobile store and walk out with this plan. My wife's unlocked (originally AT&T) iPhone 4 has been on this plan since March of this year and I had no trouble getting her activated and account set up at t-mobile.com.

[Hamster]

My $90 contract with Verizon is up, and I've made the move to Airvoice.

Went ahead and bought a refurbished Samsung Google Nexus S, before had a Verizon Iphone 4s. I chose Airvoice because of the cheap plans and cheap data rates, and the fact it was on AT&T. When shopping for an MVNO, I knew that I only wanted to be on Verizon or AT&T, no other networks.

Initially signed up for the $10 plan because I'm not a big talker or texter, personally. That said, after a few days on Airvoice, I'm wondering how I'll make $10 last a whole month.

When you were on the $10 plan, did your mobile data work? I just got an airvoice SIM with the $10 plan, and talking/texting work fine, but it doesn't give me mobile data. When I put my GoSmart SIM in, mobile data works just fine, but my T-mo reception is atrocious at my house.

I need to call Airvoice customer service tomorrow to clarify this. I have to say, so far I'm not very impressed by AirVoice's website - very non-intuitive, and their information is self contradictory - for the same $10 plan, different places in the website and the paper info that came with the SIM state that data is:
$0.33/Mb
$0.066/MB
and
$0.066/message.

If I can't get mobile data working, I'll either have to go to a more expensive plan, or plead for IP to give me some guidance :-).

[Daley]

If I can't get mobile data working, I'll either have to go to a more expensive plan, or plead for IP to give me some guidance :-).

You typically need to call Airvoice to get mobile data enabled on the $10 plan.

[Hamster]

If I can't get mobile data working, I'll either have to go to a more expensive plan, or plead for IP to give me some guidance :-).

You typically need to call Airvoice to get mobile data enabled on the $10 plan.

Thanks!

[HokieInPa]

I am by no means an expert, but I am running iOS 7.03 on Airvoice and getting mms after a tmobile sim swap. Maybe that ability changed with ios 7.04? I sure hope not as i just purchased a used iPhone to switch my wife to Airvoice from Verizon when her contract ends. Thought I was home safe with the switch since I was the guinea pig for us going from Verizon to Airvoice, but the iOS 7.04 issue from above has me concerned