Chase Sapphire Reserve; 100,000 points signup bonus

[travelawyer]

As an existing card member, should I be at all concerned that the sign up bonus is changing?  I would like to keep the 150,000 points on standby for future travel but I wouldn't feel too bad about taking the $1000 cash and running.

No, they won't take your points away. The change only applies to new applicants.

[Nothlit]

With a $450 annual fee that is not waived in the first year is this card even worth it now that the bonus will be 50000 points instead?

Still totally worth it. You can double dip the 2017/2018 travel credit for a total of $600 while paying just one annual fee of $450. Plus the 50k points, which are worth $500 if you cash them out or $750 if you book travel through the Chase Ultimate Rewards portal. Or possibly more if you transfer UR points to an airline/hotel partner for more than 1.5cpp valuation.

But why wait for the bonus to drop to 50k? Apply today and it's still 100k. :-)

[sol]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

[secondcor521]

Quick question on the Priority Pass.  It says on the Chase paperwork that you get a priority pass select.  Well when I go to the PP site, it gives me to options of standard, standard plus, and prestige.  I am assuming the standard one is correct, but want to double check...

You get the PP thru Chase's site, not the PP pass site.  You have to sign up on Chase to get it though and it takes a couple weeks.

TealBlue, the PP paperwork that came with my card points to https://www.prioritypass.com/select for info.

[dragoncar]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

Plus $600 in travel credit.  It's a sick deal if you travel.

The checking account sign up bonuses usually require holding some minimum deposit for a few months and direct deposits to avoid fees.  I've done it, but the CSR was easier money IMO.  If you have to manufacture spend it becomes less attractive.  (Un)luckily I had plenty of opportunity to spend or prespend money this winter

[TomTX]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

You have to pay income tax on the checking account bonuses, not on the credit card bonuses.

You are neglecting the $600 travel reimbursement on the Chase card

There are additional perks, but they are mostly useful if you travel.

If you cancel within a reasonable time of the 2nd annual fee (I think 60 days) - Chase will typically refund it.

[frugalnacho]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

You are missing the the $300/yr travel credit reimbursement, and the fact that you can redeem points towards travel at 1.5x through the chase portal (so that nominal $1000 becomes $1500 in travel).  The $300/yr reimbursement is per calendar year, so you can double dip while only paying for 1 annual fee.

I used my 2016 credit to purchase $300 in non expiring delta gift cards, and then booked a vacation in 2017. 

Between the sign up bonus and the points I earned by meeting the spending requirements I had about $1,600 worth of travel, plus $600 in travel reimbursements (one for each 2016 and now 2017).  That's $2,200 worth of travel.  My wife signed up for her own too, so we got $4,400 worth of travel for $900 in fees and about $160 in lost cash back opportunity cost by spending $8k on theses instead of my 2% cash back card.  A net gain of over $3,300 for doing spending I was already doing.  That will pay a significant portion of our vacation this year.

[dragoncar]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

You are missing the the $300/yr travel credit reimbursement, and the fact that you can redeem points towards travel at 1.5x through the chase portal (so that nominal $1000 becomes $1500 in travel).  The $300/yr reimbursement is per calendar year, so you can double dip while only paying for 1 annual fee.

I used my 2016 credit to purchase $300 in non expiring delta gift cards, and then booked a vacation in 2017. 

Between the sign up bonus and the points I earned by meeting the spending requirements I had about $1,600 worth of travel, plus $600 in travel reimbursements (one for each 2016 and now 2017).  That's $2,200 worth of travel.  My wife signed up for her own too, so we got $4,400 worth of travel for $900 in fees and about $160 in lost cash back opportunity cost by spending $8k on theses instead of my 2% cash back card.  A net gain of over $3,300 for doing spending I was already doing.  That will pay a significant portion of our vacation this year.

Plus if you still have food and travel budget left, the 3 points/$ on travel and dining end as 4.5% back (with the 1.5x multiplier), which is a nice perk for the year you have the card.

I may still keep one of these cards an extra year, depending on how everything else goes.  The extra $150 in annual fee you pay (after travel reimbursement) requires about $6000 in annual spend at restaurants/travel in order to break even (assuming having the CSR gives you an extra 2.5% over your other cards).  That's spendy, but could make sense for some budgets.  I wonder if there's a way to get other types of gift cards coded that way.

[russianswinga]

Just got approved for CSR. I will downgrade my CSP to Chase Freedom next year, and keep CSR for at least a full year. If I close it after, I will transfer remaining points to southwest since I fly them several times per year.

[Roots&Wings]

Does anyone know exactly how 5/24 is calculated? I'm not sure if I go down to 4/24 in March or April, which is kinda important now with the deadline being March 12th for in-branch applications.

This is how I understand it:  If you are currently at 5/24 and the oldest of your 5 card was approved anywhere between March 1 - 30 2015  then you would be under 5/24 on April 1st.  If you card wasn't approved until April 1 then you'd have to wait until May 1st.

Or go to a branch. I'm over 5/24 and was denied online, but just approved in branch.

[geekette]

Does anyone know exactly how 5/24 is calculated? I'm not sure if I go down to 4/24 in March or April, which is kinda important now with the deadline being March 12th for in-branch applications.

This is how I understand it:  If you are currently at 5/24 and the oldest of your 5 card was approved anywhere between March 1 - 30 2015  then you would be under 5/24 on April 1st.  If you card wasn't approved until April 1 then you'd have to wait until May 1st.

Or go to a branch. I'm over 5/24 and was denied online, but just approved in branch.

I keep seeing this, so I looked.  The nearest branch is 200 miles and 2 states away.  Phooey.

[Roots&Wings]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

[Catbert]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

Wait time for interviews varies tremendously among locations.  I had a ~3 week wait in San Diego.  Some people have booked interviews at locations while they are on travel.  Many report sucess with checking frequently because the office gets cancellations all the time.  This obviously works better if your schedule is flexible.

[JLee]

Does anyone know exactly how 5/24 is calculated? I'm not sure if I go down to 4/24 in March or April, which is kinda important now with the deadline being March 12th for in-branch applications.

This is how I understand it:  If you are currently at 5/24 and the oldest of your 5 card was approved anywhere between March 1 - 30 2015  then you would be under 5/24 on April 1st.  If you card wasn't approved until April 1 then you'd have to wait until May 1st.

Or go to a branch. I'm over 5/24 and was denied online, but just approved in branch.

Were you pre-approved, or did you just apply?

[dragoncar]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

This is typical.  The "interview" is a joke ,too.  They basically just need to get your prints and verify your docs.

[JoJo]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

This is typical.  The "interview" is a joke ,too.  They basically just need to get your prints and verify your docs.

My interview was 10 minutes.  He asked "why have you been to so many countries in the last 5 years?"  There were 28 countries listed.

[Debts_of_Despair]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

As I posted above, it took me 11 business days.  Large metro areas seem to have disproportionately longer wait times.

[jorjor]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

This is typical.  The "interview" is a joke ,too.  They basically just need to get your prints and verify your docs.

When I was getting mine, the guy next to me was getting questioned about his Cuban cigars that were detained at the border back in 1998.

[jorjor]

Only reason I can think of for getting TSA Precheck is if you can't find a convenient place to get Global Entry interview done.

Or a convenient time.  We did Global Entry but the earliest interview time was June 2017.

So you paid the $100 for Global Entry application then couldn't get it for half a year? Is this normal timing for Global Entry? I will need to do TSA pre-check then instead. Assume pre-check is faster?

Wait time for interviews varies tremendously among locations.  I had a ~3 week wait in San Diego.  Some people have booked interviews at locations while they are on travel.  Many report sucess with checking frequently because the office gets cancellations all the time.  This obviously works better if your schedule is flexible.

I was just going to suggest this. I moved mine up once or twice when I checked back often and saw an earlier time pop up. They go quick though. I saw a couple open up for just a few minutes.

[Roots&Wings]

Does anyone know exactly how 5/24 is calculated? I'm not sure if I go down to 4/24 in March or April, which is kinda important now with the deadline being March 12th for in-branch applications.

This is how I understand it:  If you are currently at 5/24 and the oldest of your 5 card was approved anywhere between March 1 - 30 2015  then you would be under 5/24 on April 1st.  If you card wasn't approved until April 1 then you'd have to wait until May 1st.

Or go to a branch. I'm over 5/24 and was denied online, but just approved in branch.

Were you pre-approved, or did you just apply?

I guess pre-approved in their in-branch database? Not really sure since we went through the whole application process and SSN for the checking/savings account opening.

I simply asked if I could get the Chase Sapphire Reserve card too when opening the $500 bonus checking/savings, and they said yes (it came with a decent $29k credit limit, but has $75 fee per authorized user, so likely not worth it for tradelines, but I also upped credit limit on my other Chase card while there at the branch, and learned you can transfer credit limit among your Chase cards, so overall a productive visit).

[Roots&Wings]

As I posted above, it took me 11 business days.  Large metro areas seem to have disproportionately longer wait times.

Sorry for missing that, the in-browser search function is not working for me for some reason. Appreciate everyone's feedback! I'll check with the airport application center, and see which might work out fastest here (TSA pre-check or Global Entry). I'd hate to pay the $100 for Global Entry, and end up not getting any benefit for a long time with several upcoming trips.

[secondcor521]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.

The itinerary is slightly complicated (in my opinion at least):

1.  Round trip from BOI to DEL to BOI for two people.
2.  Via SEA and DXB outbound.
3.  Possibly another stopover on the inbound - TBD, either LHR or some place warm
4.  One ticket is economy class, one is business class.
5.  Use all my points then the balance on my card.
6.  Using the Emirates sale that is going on now.

Any tips for getting an agent to ticket the above correctly/well?

[CowboyAndIndian]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.
...

Cool, PM me if you want any suggestions about what to do in India.

Cannot help you with booking it though :-(

[secondcor521]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.
...

Cool, PM me if you want any suggestions about what to do in India.

Cannot help you with booking it though :-(

PM sent :-)

[Iplawyer]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.

The itinerary is slightly complicated (in my opinion at least):

1.  Round trip from BOI to DEL to BOI for two people.
2.  Via SEA and DXB outbound.
3.  Possibly another stopover on the inbound - TBD, either LHR or some place warm
4.  One ticket is economy class, one is business class.
5.  Use all my points then the balance on my card.
6.  Using the Emirates sale that is going on now.

Any tips for getting an agent to ticket the above correctly/well?

You have to use the Ultimate Rewards travel site to use your points.

[secondcor521]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.

The itinerary is slightly complicated (in my opinion at least):

1.  Round trip from BOI to DEL to BOI for two people.
2.  Via SEA and DXB outbound.
3.  Possibly another stopover on the inbound - TBD, either LHR or some place warm
4.  One ticket is economy class, one is business class.
5.  Use all my points then the balance on my card.
6.  Using the Emirates sale that is going on now.

Any tips for getting an agent to ticket the above correctly/well?

You have to use the Ultimate Rewards travel site to use your points.

Right.  I doubt my ability to book this trip successfully myself via the UR portal and thought I read upthread that there are Chase reps who can book trickier itineraries for you.  This is trickier than anything I have attempted to book on my own, and I'm just not sure how tricky it would be for one of the Chase portal reps.  Maybe they do these things in their sleep, I don't know.

[Iplawyer]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.

The itinerary is slightly complicated (in my opinion at least):

1.  Round trip from BOI to DEL to BOI for two people.
2.  Via SEA and DXB outbound.
3.  Possibly another stopover on the inbound - TBD, either LHR or some place warm
4.  One ticket is economy class, one is business class.
5.  Use all my points then the balance on my card.
6.  Using the Emirates sale that is going on now.

Any tips for getting an agent to ticket the above correctly/well?

You have to use the Ultimate Rewards travel site to use your points.

Right.  I doubt my ability to book this trip successfully myself via the UR portal and thought I read upthread that there are Chase reps who can book trickier itineraries for you.  This is trickier than anything I have attempted to book on my own, and I'm just not sure how tricky it would be for one of the Chase portal reps.  Maybe they do these things in their sleep, I don't know.

Nonetheless - if you want to use the points to book it - you'll have to let them do it.

[secondcor521]

I am strongly considering using my Chase points to book a trip to India with my Dad.

The itinerary is slightly complicated (in my opinion at least):

1.  Round trip from BOI to DEL to BOI for two people.
2.  Via SEA and DXB outbound.
3.  Possibly another stopover on the inbound - TBD, either LHR or some place warm
4.  One ticket is economy class, one is business class.
5.  Use all my points then the balance on my card.
6.  Using the Emirates sale that is going on now.

Any tips for getting an agent to ticket the above correctly/well?

You have to use the Ultimate Rewards travel site to use your points.

Right.  I doubt my ability to book this trip successfully myself via the UR portal and thought I read upthread that there are Chase reps who can book trickier itineraries for you.  This is trickier than anything I have attempted to book on my own, and I'm just not sure how tricky it would be for one of the Chase portal reps.  Maybe they do these things in their sleep, I don't know.

Nonetheless - if you want to use the points to book it - you'll have to let them do it.

I understand you.  Or at least I am pretty sure I do.

Perhaps if I had phrased my original question this way my intent would be clearer:

"Any tips for getting [a Chase UR portal customer service representative] to ticket the above correctly/well?"

which is what I really meant.

[golfreak12]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

So lets say you open a CSR today.
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$550 - Spend $4000 withing the next 90 days. The value of 100K points is much more than $1000 but lets keep it tat way.
+$850 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+1150 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

At minimum you gain $1150 for minimum work so its easy to see why everyone is crazy about it. There are other perks too but you get the gist of it.

[Dollar Slice]

So lets say you open a CSR today.
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$550 - Spend $4000 withing the next 90 days. The value of 100K points is much more than $1000 but lets keep it tat way.
+$850 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+1150 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

It's worth mentioning that you don't even have to travel to get this much benefit - you can use the $300 travel credits on things like trains, subway passes, Uber/taxi/rideshare services, highway and bridge tolls, parking garages, etc. so some of us are able to use that on everyday expenses we would have spent anyway.  (Although it might be tough to spend $300 on commuting expenses in 2018 given the short window - for certain things you should be able to prepay.)

[JLee]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

So lets say you open a CSR today.
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$550 - Spend $4000 withing the next 90 days. The value of 100K points is much more than $1000 but lets keep it tat way.
+$850 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+1150 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

At minimum you gain $1150 for minimum work so its easy to see why everyone is crazy about it. There are other perks too but you get the gist of it.

That $4000 spend will get you a minimum of 4000 points, and potentially up to 12,000 depending on the type of purchase. That adds another $40-120 in cash value, or $60-180 in travel credit.

Using the card in an optimal manner, we have:
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$1110 - Spend $4000 within the next 90 days. The value of 104,000 points used for travel is $1560.
+$1410 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+$1710 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
+$1810 - apply for Global Entry ($100) - fee is reimbursed.
+free airport lounge access
+free primary rental car insurance
+free emergency medical and evacuation coverage while traveling (up to $2,500 / $100,000 respectively)
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

It's a phenomenal deal.

[sol]

So if used in the most optimal fashion, I can make roughly $1800 off of this card.  It requires some work over the next year to get that much, but let's go with it.

What if the points conversion scale changes before you can spend it, and you're already out the $450 out of pocket up front?  What about the points I already earn on my current card, that I would lose if I used this one instead?

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

I'm not saying it's a terrible deal that nobody should utilize, just that it seems like a lot of hassle and risk to cut five days off my working career, when you can cut a whole year off by raising your savings rate 1%.

Sorry to be a downer.  I'll probably sign up for the card anyway.

[CloserToFree]

Sol - I just don't see the big hassle/risk.  What do you find most annoying?

I'm stuck in >5/24 land and don't have a Chase branch location convenient to where I live.  I could drive a few hours to one (or go to one on my next visit to a city that has Chase branches, in February), and am seriously considering doing it to get this deal.  Any sense of how much more likely branch approval is vs online approval (I was rejected a few months ago)?  Has anyone applied at a branch that's NOT where they live?  Wondering if this'll be viewed as sketchy...and also if I'm going to need to open an account there first, then ask about applying for the Reserve card.

[frugalnacho]

So if used in the most optimal fashion, I can make roughly $1800 off of this card.  It requires some work over the next year to get that much, but let's go with it.

What if the points conversion scale changes before you can spend it, and you're already out the $450 out of pocket up front?  What about the points I already earn on my current card, that I would lose if I used this one instead?

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

I'm not saying it's a terrible deal that nobody should utilize, just that it seems like a lot of hassle and risk to cut five days off my working career, when you can cut a whole year off by raising your savings rate 1%.

Sorry to be a downer.  I'll probably sign up for the card anyway.

I think your math is a bit off by neglecting the taxes you'll pay by working, because the benefits of the card are post tax money, but I get your point.

I think you are greatly over stating the amount of work involved too.  I had to fill out a credit application, and and some point I will need to cancel the card.  Even if you count the several hours I have spent researching how to most effectively use our points for travel it will work out to several hundreds of dollars an hour chase paid me just to use their card to do spending I was already doing.  It would be foolish not to get the card.

The opportunity cost lost by using this card and forgoing other cash back is small, and depending on what you spend on you may actually come out ahead with this card as opposed to your normal cash back card.  But by the same logic that that any sum of money less than a weeks work ($2,000) is negligible, a paltry amount like $0-40 shouldn't even be on your radar.

I really don't see the downside, or how you could possibly imply it's not a fantastic deal.  Even if you don't intend to travel and just want to take the cash back straight away.  The only risk is if you won't meet the $4k spend requirement in the time frame.  If you can meet that requirement the card is a no brainer.

EDIT:

Also this:

[Joel]

Question regarding the travel credit, I opened my account mid/late December 2016 (around the 20th). I didn't receive the card until the 27th and the $450 annual fee posted on 1/1/2017. Therefore, I will be cancelling/downgrading the card by 12/31/2016. I'm a bit confused by the language surrounding the $300 travel credit. If my statement posts early December, would I be able to incur $300 in travel charges after that date to double up on the travel credit for 2017 while cancelling before the second $450 fee?

[golfreak12]

(Annual fee posts the first business day of the month following account opening, and every 12 months thereafter.)

So you pay $450 one month after signing up in order to get 100k of points (nominally $1,000) in three months once you spend $4,000?  And then you have to cancel before 12 months are up and you get charged another $450?

I mean it's not a terrible deal, but it doesn't seem like something to get all excited about, either.  What am I missing?  We routinely get ~$300 in sign up bonuses for opening checking accounts without having to spend anything at all, and that seems to scale better.

So lets say you open a CSR today.
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$550 - Spend $4000 withing the next 90 days. The value of 100K points is much more than $1000 but lets keep it tat way.
+$850 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+1150 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

At minimum you gain $1150 for minimum work so its easy to see why everyone is crazy about it. There are other perks too but you get the gist of it.

That $4000 spend will get you a minimum of 4000 points, and potentially up to 12,000 depending on the type of purchase. That adds another $40-120 in cash value, or $60-180 in travel credit.

Using the card in an optimal manner, we have:
-$450 - Pay $450 annual fee.
+$1110 - Spend $4000 within the next 90 days. The value of 104,000 points used for travel is $1560.
+$1410 - During 2017, spend $300 on travel and get $300 back.
+$1710 - In 2018, you have a small window to spend $300 on travel and get another $300 back. Buy airline GC if you have to.
+$1810 - apply for Global Entry ($100) - fee is reimbursed.
+free airport lounge access
+free primary rental car insurance
+free emergency medical and evacuation coverage while traveling (up to $2,500 / $100,000 respectively)
- Cancel before or when you see the 2nd $450 annual fee.

It's a phenomenal deal.

I'm 100% in total agreement. I was only stating the minimum benefits of this card.
I usually transfer all my Chase points to my Hyatt account. To me Hyatt has the 2nd best points reward program behind SPG(Sheraton) for hotels.
For example, this past Oct we visited NYC for the first time. We all know how expensive it is to stay anywhere near Time Square. We stayed at a Hyatt Place for 5 nights that was $330 a night. With TAXES it was $1900 total. We did the cash+points. 10K points + $125/night. (50K points + $710) VS ($1900) so using 50K points are worth almost $1200 to us.
Something to note that when looking at hotels, the $200 price is more like $230 with taxes depending on the city. So when using FREE points for hotels, make sure you calculate the value plus taxes because using POINTS for free nights you don't have to pay for taxes.

[dragoncar]

So if used in the most optimal fashion, I can make roughly $1800 off of this card.  It requires some work over the next year to get that much, but let's go with it.

What if the points conversion scale changes before you can spend it, and you're already out the $450 out of pocket up front?  What about the points I already earn on my current card, that I would lose if I used this one instead?

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

I'm not saying it's a terrible deal that nobody should utilize, just that it seems like a lot of hassle and risk to cut five days off my working career, when you can cut a whole year off by raising your savings rate 1%.

Sorry to be a downer.  I'll probably sign up for the card anyway.

On the other hand, let's say you are ARS with 500k points on chase cards.  Getting the CSR makes that worth an extra $2500 for travel.  It's worth the card for the 1.5x bump alpne

[golfreak12]

 I posted earlier in the thread that I was denied for this card because of the 5/24 rule. I also went to the branch and they told me I was not pre-approve for it. Now I'm been lusting over this card since it became available so I went to check my credit to see when my 5/24 drop off. Its not until March 2017.
 3 weeks ago, the day after Christmas, I went to my local branch to deposit some money and the teller told me I was pre-approved for a Freedom card. Said I was not interested. Only interested in the CSR. She's like, let me get you a CR and she can check for you. I'm thinking I was checked not too long ago and I wasn't but I'm lusting over this card so bad so WHY not. CR looked real quick and said I was approved for a few cards including the CSR. I'm like are you sure ?? She assured me. It was the end of 2016 so didn't even try because I wanted the $300 for 2 yrs. Thinking I'll wait till 2017 so I can get the credit for 2017 and 2018.
 Fast forward to this year and I hear that they will lowered the 100K points by Jan 12. Although the branch will still have the 100K until March, still didn't want to take that chance. Well, I just got back from Chase and voila, APPROVED with a $29K credit limit. It was weird. I had to fill out a quick online application with her and was instantly approved. The application involved asking me how much I make and thats about it. Pretty weird that I'm this excited over a credit card.

[Debts_of_Despair]

Tomorrow (1/11/17) is allegedly the last day to apply online with the current signup bonus.

[golfreak12]

Tomorrow (1/11/17) is allegedly the last day to apply online with the current signup bonus.

YES but in branch promotion will remain the same until March supposably.

[Dollar Slice]

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

You're on a website where people are optimizing electricity usage, turning down thermostats, eating excessive quantities of oatmeal, living in their cars, bicycling to work, etc. etc. to save a few bucks, and you're worried that it's not worth it to make a tax-free four figures in an hour or two of easy work? :-)

[JLee]

So if used in the most optimal fashion, I can make roughly $1800 off of this card.  It requires some work over the next year to get that much, but let's go with it.

What if the points conversion scale changes before you can spend it, and you're already out the $450 out of pocket up front?  What about the points I already earn on my current card, that I would lose if I used this one instead?

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

I'm not saying it's a terrible deal that nobody should utilize, just that it seems like a lot of hassle and risk to cut five days off my working career, when you can cut a whole year off by raising your savings rate 1%.

Sorry to be a downer.  I'll probably sign up for the card anyway.

What risk, exactly?

I find going to work five times for a combined total of ~40 hours to be a lot more hassle than opening and closing a credit card, but that's me.

[sol]

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

You're on a website where people are optimizing electricity usage, turning down thermostats, eating excessive quantities of oatmeal, living in their cars, bicycling to work, etc. etc. to save a few bucks, and you're worried that it's not worth it to make a tax-free four figures in an hour or two of easy work? :-)

Yes, I know.  The financial motivations behind those decisions are purely the frosting on top.  This is essentially a lifestyle blog about how to be healthier and happier and more environmentally friendly, and the $$$ is just the vector, the pathway to get people to make changes for the better.

I don't think I will be happier credit card churning to save a few bucks, in the same way that I am happier biking to work to save a few bucks.  Or better yet, happier retiring early with those saved bucks, which I will not continue to save once I am no longer commuting or qualifying for credit cards.

[geekette]

Question regarding the travel credit, I opened my account mid/late December 2016 (around the 20th). I didn't receive the card until the 27th and the $450 annual fee posted on 1/1/2017. Therefore, I will be cancelling/downgrading the card by 12/31/2016. I'm a bit confused by the language surrounding the $300 travel credit. If my statement posts early December, would I be able to incur $300 in travel charges after that date to double up on the travel credit for 2017 while cancelling before the second $450 fee?

You'll probably be able to get it late December 2017 (get an airline gift card if nothing else).  I got my 2016 credit shortly after receiving the card, but it reset after my December bill dropped. I charged a hotel night right after that bill date and got (some of) the 2017 credit.

[dragoncar]

We've previously established that the median income for mustachians is about $100k/year, and many of us are struggling with OMY syndrome as we push our retirement dates back farther and farther.  At that salary, it's literally five more workdays to get this much benefit.  Work one more week, and never have to worry about gift cards or travel redemptions or point conversions our minimum spend requirements.

What's the median retirement expenditure for mustachians though?  If it's anything like MMM at $24k, $2000 in benefits is 8% of annual spend.  If you can travel hack* $2000 per year, that's equivalent to saving an extra $50k in your stash.

Some people hate doing that stuff, but I feel like you are overestimating the amount of work this involves.  I've spent more time just writing silly responses in this thread than I did to actually get the card.  It was a 1 minute application process, I only made purchases I was going to otherwise make, and now I've booked flights I was otherwise going to book for free.  It took me a minute to set a reminder to cancel next year, and that will take me maybe 10 min? 

So you can either spend ~30 total minutes getting this benefit or an extra 5 days working.  You'd choose the 5 extra days, and that's fine but I don't think most people would make that trade

*I actually hate this term since it's not travel hacking at all.  IMO travel hacking is like booking a flight and getting off at the layover, or booking different legs on different carriers, and so on.  This is churning.  But I called it travel hacking because in this case the churning benefit is multiplied if you use it for travel.

[Dollar Slice]

Yes, I know.  The financial motivations behind those decisions are purely the frosting on top.  This is essentially a lifestyle blog about how to be healthier and happier and more environmentally friendly, and the $$$ is just the vector, the pathway to get people to make changes for the better.

I don't think I will be happier credit card churning to save a few bucks, in the same way that I am happier biking to work to save a few bucks.  Or better yet, happier retiring early with those saved bucks, which I will not continue to save once I am no longer commuting or qualifying for credit cards.

I'll admit the waste involved with overnighting the overly-fancy deluxe credit card packaging was a little upsetting. (Even my houseguest at the time, who was with me when I got the package, was dismayed about it.)  It's too bad there was no opt-out for that.

But maybe it is worth it as that will save me over a week of running a computer at some office job, or it will give me more money to donate to a very efficient charity someday :-)

[sol]

What's the median retirement expenditure for mustachians though?  If it's anything like MMM at $24k, $2000 in benefits is 8% of annual spend.

One of the things I have learned from my aging parents is that you will no longer qualify for new credit cards once you no longer have regular employment income.  Churning is a game designed for people who don't really need the money.  Poor folks don't qualify.

This is part of the reason I am applying for new credit cards now, because pretty soon I will be stuck with those same cards for the rest of my life, unable to get new ones.  Maybe someone should add this tidbit to the "retirement checklist" thread:  sign up for a bunch of new credit cards while you still have high earned income.

My retired parents were just denied a home equity line of credit for an amount smaller than the balance of their savings account at the same bank.  Retirees can't get loans or credit, it seems, even with an 800+ credit rating.

[geekette]

What's the median retirement expenditure for mustachians though?  If it's anything like MMM at $24k, $2000 in benefits is 8% of annual spend.

One of the things I have learned from my aging parents is that you will no longer qualify for new credit cards once you no longer have regular employment income.  Churning is a game designed for people who don't really need the money.  Poor folks don't qualify.

Not so sure about that - we've been retired for over 3 years and have been churning a storm for the last 2.  I put our income at $35,000/year, which is about what we pull out of investments, and haven't been turned down yet.  CSP for each of us, Amex Starwood for each, Barclay USAir (now AA) for each, Freedom Unlimited for each, CSR for DH (I'm over 5/24), and a couple others. 

[sol]

What's the median retirement expenditure for mustachians though?  If it's anything like MMM at $24k, $2000 in benefits is 8% of annual spend.

One of the things I have learned from my aging parents is that you will no longer qualify for new credit cards once you no longer have regular employment income.  Churning is a game designed for people who don't really need the money.  Poor folks don't qualify.

Not so sure about that - we've been retired for over 3 years and have been churning a storm for the last 2.  I put our income at $35,000/year, which is about what we pull out of investments, and haven't been turned down yet.  CSP for each of us, Amex Starwood for each, Barclay USAir (now AA) for each, Freedom Unlimited for each, CSR for DH (I'm over 5/24), and a couple others.

I hope you're right.  Churning could be a useful side gig in retirement, I'm just not sure I can count on it.

[Joel]

Question regarding the travel credit, I opened my account mid/late December 2016 (around the 20th). I didn't receive the card until the 27th and the $450 annual fee posted on 1/1/2017. Therefore, I will be cancelling/downgrading the card by 12/31/2016. I'm a bit confused by the language surrounding the $300 travel credit. If my statement posts early December, would I be able to incur $300 in travel charges after that date to double up on the travel credit for 2017 while cancelling before the second $450 fee?

Thanks.

I'll have to pay attention to how quickly the credit posts this year, and consider getting on it right after the statement closes in December.

You'll probably be able to get it late December 2017 (get an airline gift card if nothing else).  I got my 2016 credit shortly after receiving the card, but it reset after my December bill dropped. I charged a hotel night right after that bill date and got (some of) the 2017 credit.