Wife flipped out when I brought up the idea

[Noodle]

I'm not buying the sleep deprivation thing. They pay a nanny fraking 24,000 per year. What's the point of that then?
Still not ok to throw around the D word

I believe the nanny is for daycare once they are both back at work. Although sometimes nannies live in ala Mary Poppins, most times they come in for the day and parents are still responsible for nights and weekends. Think of a traveling day care center that comes to your house.

[Astromarine]

I'm not buying the sleep deprivation thing. They pay a nanny fraking 24,000 per year. What's the point of that then?
Still not ok to throw around the D word

In almost everything else, I'm willing to bet you'd be willing to listen to the experts. Not only the women in this thread, but also all the psychologists they talked to, and all the psychologists YOU could talk to if you were willing to research this topic the same way you do investments or FIRE, would agree that it is a real thing, that people kinda go crazy in new and fun and interesting ways when they give birth, and that while this happens to both parents, the mothers get the REAL sharp end of the stick. Is the idea of being wrong about something really that uncomfortable?

[zippyc]

She might be back at work thinking "Oh my God, I can't keep doing this" and he's at home talking about quitting his job. I knew I was going back to work, we hired the mom as our nanny, and I still totally freaked out once I went back to work. My favorite was trying to pump between sales calls, having a meeting with my boss who suggested that I needed to get my numbers up, then having my husband call at 6pm on the dot with my daughter screaming into the phone asking me why I hadn't left yet. I was never in the right place at the right time and I was rarely sane or calm.

The baby is 3 freaking months old. My first had colic and didn't start sleeping for longer than 3 hours at a time until she was over 4 months old. If my husband would have suggested something that I perceived as insane at the time, I probably would have suggested divorce too. Suggesting it and meaning it are two different things. From my experience, people tend to use that word when they feel cornered and panicked and don't know what else to do. If you've never done that, I commend you, but I never heard my stonewalling parents fight or discuss divorce until they actually did after 20 years of marriage.

Give the hormone argument a rest. It's real as real gets. If you haven't been there (as a woman), then your two cents on that topic aren't needed.

All that being said... New York City is a place where most people are Very into money and status. If that is the world that you find yourself in there, it is hard to not keep up with the Jones's and being in that environment can make people feel like there is only one right way to do things and that way costs a lot. I can imagine with her past and issues with money, that not keeping up can make her feel like a lesser person. That is a really good thing to explore in counselling. I also believe that getting out of that environment (someday) can help with seeing the light on FI.

Would she accept Chicago as a big city that she could live near? Chicago is Sooo much cheaper. Try finding a job you can't pass up there.

A relaxing and simple vacation (not a run around taking in all the sights one) can be a great time to discuss future dreams and propose ways to move towards that, once the baby is 1 year old, of course. Best of luck.

[sol]

I've had trouble keeping up with the extraordinary growth of this thread, so please correct me if the following summary is inaccurate.

You are a rich dude with huge assets and income and a job that makes you miserable, so you want to talk to your wife about the possibility of early retirement with a less extravagant lifestyle.  Your wife has told you that she doesn't care if you are miserable and she wants a divorce if you do not continue to work in your miserable job to support her crazy level of spending.

How did this thread get to four pages long without someone using the word "golddigger"?  Because this looks like a textbook case, to me.

edit, for effect:
If you ain't no punk, holla "we want prenup".

[SisterX]

Since your wife is into status, I forgot to add that in the pricey ski town I lived in CO (and many other areas in the west and northwest), a husband that doesn't work is a status symbol.

It's called the leisure class.  Wife needs to stop thinking like such a pleb.

It's not cool to judge and condemn OP's wife without having met her and knowing all of the circumstances.  You (and others) are making assumptions, and it's not productive to the conversation.  "Since your wife is into status...."  How do you figure that?  Her reason for wanting OP to continue working is because it sets a good example for the kid.  How is that status?  She wants private school for a long list of very understandable reasons having everything to do with education, not status.  I'm willing to bet that at least part of her desire to travel through Europe also has to do with enrichment for the kid, giving him (or her?) opportunities she never got as a child and making him/her a better and more well-rounded person.  How is any of that status-related?  It's not.  It's trying to make sure her child has a better life than she does, no matter how great she thinks life already is, and every parent on the planet can understand that.  Just because she's thinking about this from a perspective you've all deemed wrong doesn't mean that her motives are wrong.

I'm not buying the sleep deprivation thing. They pay a nanny fraking 24,000 per year. What's the point of that then?
Still not ok to throw around the D word

Finally: get past the freaking divorce comment already.  She said it, but she hasn't done anything about it and OP doesn't seem super worried about the prospect of actually getting divorced.  So give it a rest.  I'm sure it's super helpful to have you harping on that one comment and how wrong she was to have said it.  Yay!  Congratulations, you know how to judge someone else!  Now stop it.  That's not what this forum is about.

[Gin1984]

I've had trouble keeping up with the extraordinary growth of this thread, so please correct me if the following summary is inaccurate.

You are a rich dude with huge assets and income and a job that makes you miserable, so you want to talk to your wife about the possibility of early retirement with a less extravagant lifestyle.  Your wife has told you that she doesn't care if you are miserable and she wants a divorce if you do not continue to work in your miserable job to support her crazy level of spending.

How did this thread get to four pages long without someone using the word "golddigger"?  Because this looks like a textbook case, to me.

edit, for effect:
If you ain't no punk, holla "we want prenup".

Because she is the one working right now?  Because her wanting BOTH of them to continue working does not mean she is after HIS money, after all it is both of THEIR money.   

[dragoncar]

Under no circumstance is it ok for a man's wife to threaten divorce after 30 min rant after man simply brings up a topic/idea. I don't care how fucking emotional you are, how stressed your are
SHE IS THE ONE WHO THREATENED THE DIVORCE. That is simply not acceptable. He NEVER threatened it. He just brought up a talking point with her.

I am sure (I hope) there is more to the story, but that is how I see it so far. This is all IMHO.

+1

Sounds like a lot of complainypants going on in here.  Wah wah I have hormones so I can't be expected to be a rational human for 6 months.  Wah wah I am stressed so a temper tantrum is justified.  The man merely brought up a suggestion.

I'm sorry, but your, or any person's ability to spout "complainypants" ends RIGHT HERE if you've never given birth, breastfed, worked, and pumped.  And if by any luck you are a woman who has done all of that, if you DIDN'T suffer from PPD then you STILL have to shut up.

And moreover, anyone who ISNT EXACTLY ME can shut up.  You don't know me!  I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake!!!!

[MsRichLife]

What I have mentioned that seemed effective was talking about things I was going to do to "help pay for the nanny".  I guess saving in one area so that we can pay for something  else resonates. Kinda zero sum but you gotta start somewhere.

I think you will have more success if you can frame things in a way that resonates with her strong values. She doesn't need to know what your end goal is yet, just start working on it in a way that doesn't make her feel like her values are being challenged.

As other posters have mentioned, at 3 months post partum, you wife is likely to be very much 'mama bear'. That baby is probably on her mind 24/7....seriously. Coupled with her high need for 'security', I think you need to play to those strong values of hers.  If you are doing something for junior's sake or to increase the family's financial security, I think you will have a lot more success.

For example, 'let's cut down on expensive holidays to make contributions to junior's education fund'. It doesn't feel like such a loss if she has a vision of the 'good' that is being done.

[darkadams00]

I don't buy the undiagnosed PPD/hormone excuse. Plenty of husbands and wives of folks on this board have responded too irrationally to the "frugal lifestyle" discussion without the need for an excuse.

Both of our children spent almost two months in intensive neonatal care after birth. I was there when the doctor handed my older son to my wife after delivery for 30 seconds and then whisked him away to ICU before he was transported to another hospital over an hour away. Afterwards, I worked all day and then made the drive with my wife to spend all our evenings/nights in an unfamiliar place eating junk food and getting little sleep before driving over an hour home to repeat the cycle the next day. With the second son, initially we were put on 48-hour notice that he might not make it.

Just before our first son's birth, our family income dropped 60% due to a decision that I made. My wife never balked at my decision. She was supportive of my decision just as I was of hers when she wanted to stay at home while our children were preschool age. Difficult births and possible infant mortality are not at the top of the typical pre-marriage discussion lists although a minority of couples encounter this reality. The notion that two people will have exactly the same life goals over twenty plus years of marriage is also unlikely, hence one of the reasons society warns against teens marrying. However, this example proves that the marrying age is not the only good predictor for married bliss.

No marriage partner can honestly say that everything that can possibly happen after marriage was anticipated, much less discussed before the nuptials. I went to grad school after marriage--hello, cheap living. We moved to a new city after marriage--hello, new place. I changed careers after marriage--hello, new boss. We changed churches after marriage--hello, new friends. We developed new hobbies/interests after marriage--hello, new lifestyle.

Spouses who balk at the hint of change might have underlying reasons. Those reasons might have enough history to stiff-arm any attempts at discussion without a neutral third party. Work on the relationship. Work on being a husband a wife can love as a person, not as a cash cow. My wife might think I was getting lazy if I wanted to discuss quitting work just before going back to the office after a multi-week FMLA. That kind of husband would be hard to love in the best of times.

If you're a husband who would defend his wife and child to the death against an intruder, what's one or two years to keep piling up your income/savings at a job you hate to wait for your personal life to settle down? Time is on your side. If you misstep here, you could end up with a couple decades to wonder whether an extra year would have been worth the wait.

[msilenus]

Mr. OP sir,

I'm another guy in a less extreme case of the same thing.  My wife wants certain things out of life that I could take or leave.  We reached some compromises, which were mostly just me giving in to what she wants.  It wasn't as bad as it sounds.  Private school is expensive, but with one kid it might be cheaper to stay put and pay for private school than moving to an extremely good school district if it comes with a hefty price increase.  For example.

I've arrived at a two-phase approach to financial planning. There's the "pre-college" phase and the "post-college" phase.  From now until our kids are in college, we're living pretty expensive, because we're in a grand school district, and both of us working creates more expenses (ie: childcare).  I have our future premium housing obligations modeled as debt with an interest rate equal to inflation that we can't pay off early.  From there, my FI number becomes about meeting my post-college cash-flow needs, plus whatever is left of that "debt-to-self" at any given moment.  If you run the numbers in that way, I bet you'll find that your "debt" to meet the education side of what your wife wants is something like 1/4 of your current net worth.  Ie: it's not going to be catastrophic to just give in on the private school.  (Note that when you run the numbers that way, your "savings rate" goes through the roof, because you wind up fudging some of your spending over to the savings column.  (Cost of that being a much higher FI number.)  So don't get too much sticker shock at whatever FI number pops out.)

Travel and Europe: how meetable her expectations are boils down to how she thinks you need to travel and live while travelling.  She doesn't sound like a huge prima donna, so I suspect you're okay there.  (Hope that's right.)  Travel can be reasonably inexpensive, if structured right.  Kids limit when and how much you can travel.

Perhaps your hardest challenge is going to be around convincing her that your assets can produce meaningful income security.  Maybe learning how to manage Real Estate investing is the way to go.  I certainly don't think I could sell a skeptical new Mom on SWR math.  Much easier to convince her later that your stable of properties is throwing off predictable income.  I'm pretty sure the Tahoe Second Home idea is a bad way to do that, though.

Once the income-stability domino falls, and once you have enough in place to guarantee whatever you're signing up for, I think it should be easy to convince her that you can quit and become a contractor/consultant/capital manager/property manager/whatever.  Just so long as Junior sees you doing some work every day, of course.

If you think she's serious about the divorce threat... well, I suspect that just giving in on a lot of this would be a heck of a lot cheaper. :)

[frugalnacho]

Under no circumstance is it ok for a man's wife to threaten divorce after 30 min rant after man simply brings up a topic/idea. I don't care how fucking emotional you are, how stressed your are
SHE IS THE ONE WHO THREATENED THE DIVORCE. That is simply not acceptable. He NEVER threatened it. He just brought up a talking point with her.

I am sure (I hope) there is more to the story, but that is how I see it so far. This is all IMHO.

+1

Sounds like a lot of complainypants going on in here.  Wah wah I have hormones so I can't be expected to be a rational human for 6 months.  Wah wah I am stressed so a temper tantrum is justified.  The man merely brought up a suggestion.

I'm sorry, but your, or any person's ability to spout "complainypants" ends RIGHT HERE if you've never given birth, breastfed, worked, and pumped.  And if by any luck you are a woman who has done all of that, if you DIDN'T suffer from PPD then you STILL have to shut up.

And moreover, anyone who ISNT EXACTLY ME can shut up.  You don't know me!  I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake!!!!

I agree.  In fact I might even be more unique than you.  And that should exempt me from all criticism.

[rjg]

I do think her primary motives are security/stability, raising her child in the best possible way and having a husband she can be proud of.  I don't really see status as a big motivator honestky. Spending 600 on groceries doesn't earn you baller status. The way in which she wants to achieve those things seems wrongheaded to me and most of you guys but that's another matter.

Regarding gold digging, that doesn't ring true either. Not only will she inherit a ton of money (her mother remarried a wealthy guy) but she brought about 600k if her own when we got married. In addition, she wants to continue working rather than become a stay at home mom. Of course, this makes her money insecurity even harder to understand but I guess early child hood issues are hard to overcome.

Now it's pretty obvious to me that making changes in our cost of living would actually increase stability/security and enrich our child's life by allowing us to spend more time with him. But that's going to be a tough sell for her.

Starting my own business is an intersting idea though I have little interest in doing that or ideas for what it would be. It'd have to be a real money maker for her to accept it.

[Gin1984]

Under no circumstance is it ok for a man's wife to threaten divorce after 30 min rant after man simply brings up a topic/idea. I don't care how fucking emotional you are, how stressed your are
SHE IS THE ONE WHO THREATENED THE DIVORCE. That is simply not acceptable. He NEVER threatened it. He just brought up a talking point with her.

I am sure (I hope) there is more to the story, but that is how I see it so far. This is all IMHO.

+1

Sounds like a lot of complainypants going on in here.  Wah wah I have hormones so I can't be expected to be a rational human for 6 months.  Wah wah I am stressed so a temper tantrum is justified.  The man merely brought up a suggestion.

I'm sorry, but your, or any person's ability to spout "complainypants" ends RIGHT HERE if you've never given birth, breastfed, worked, and pumped.  And if by any luck you are a woman who has done all of that, if you DIDN'T suffer from PPD then you STILL have to shut up.

And moreover, anyone who ISNT EXACTLY ME can shut up.  You don't know me!  I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake!!!!

I agree.  In fact I might even be more unique than you.  And that should exempt me from all criticism.

I find these two comments quite amusing given that the point is, this is not unique but if you don't have experience in the matter, your opinion really does not matter/hold water.  It is like someone who did not pass high school biology holding an opinion on evolution, that is nice but without any knowledge who would listen.  Perhaps boys, you may want to listen to the man who posted earlier "In almost everything else, I'm willing to bet you'd be willing to listen to the experts. Not only the women in this thread, but also all the psychologists they talked to, and all the psychologists YOU could talk to if you were willing to research this topic the same way you do investments or FIRE, would agree that it is a real thing, that people kinda go crazy in new and fun and interesting ways when they give birth, and that while this happens to both parents, the mothers get the REAL sharp end of the stick. Is the idea of being wrong about something really that uncomfortable?"

[frugalnacho]

I find these two comments quite amusing given that the point is, this is not unique but if you don't have experience in the matter, your opinion really does not matter/hold water.  It is like someone who did not pass high school biology holding an opinion on evolution, that is nice but without any knowledge who would listen.  Perhaps boys, you may want to listen to the man who posted earlier "In almost everything else, I'm willing to bet you'd be willing to listen to the experts. Not only the women in this thread, but also all the psychologists they talked to, and all the psychologists YOU could talk to if you were willing to research this topic the same way you do investments or FIRE, would agree that it is a real thing, that people kinda go crazy in new and fun and interesting ways when they give birth, and that while this happens to both parents, the mothers get the REAL sharp end of the stick. Is the idea of being wrong about something really that uncomfortable?"

I don't think anyone claimed it wasn't real, just that it shouldn't be used an excuse for her behavior.  Where exactly do you draw the line on how much crazy you can excuse? 

[alibean]

Ok, so I didn't read every single post, but I got about half-way in.  My apologies if this is repetitive. 

Judging by your budget, this is a new way of thinking for you and your family.  You've probably been perusing the internet, reading articles, maybe even books about FI and frugality.  Meanwhile, your wife has probably been reading about how every baby needs x, y and z in order to be safe, healthy and happy.  I'm just guessing here....  not from experience I assure you. ;)   I won't go into details, but I would have gone ape sh!t if my husband had told me he wanted to quit his job when I was 3 mos ppd.  And, I was in such a dark place, I just might have mentioned divorce.  As much as you love the baby, this is a HUGE time time of transition already.  There is a lot of pressure out there about what it means to be a "good mom" and what exactly that entails.  And it's overwhelming!  Since you said you make the lion's share of the income, the idea of you quitting probably makes her feel so insecure and quite frankly, scared.  So, I'm guessing she brought up the D word out of fear. (Just a note- my husband and I are in a great place now despite that rough period)

Have you read, "Your money or your life?"  The book brings in great perspective about the true cost of working.  Maybe you could ask her to read it once she is a little more rested.  Then maybe show her some easy ways you can trim the budget that don't feel like suffering just to show you can.  I truly believe it's a process and a total change in mindset.  I don't think it's fair for you to expect her to jump onboard right away. 

There are points in your life where you just have blinders on and it's hard to see anything else but straight ahead.  Hopefully, she will eventually see that there isn't just this one, only way- likely the way most of the people she knows are doing things.  I think it's a whole paradigm shift.  My husband and I are just starting to make some changes.  It all started w/me emailing him links to articles about families that are seeking or have achieved FI w/the subject line, "Doesn't this sound awesome?" or "These people are so badass." 

So, good luck to you! 

[sol]

I don't think anyone claimed it wasn't real, just that it shouldn't be used an excuse for her behavior.

"I'm sorry officer, I was speeding because I'm drunk."

or how about

"I molested that child because I was abused when I was little."

Since when is bad behavior excused by anything at all?  Personal responsibility is tough, I know, but I think we're all adult enough to realize we should embrace it even when we don't want to. 

[okashira]

First of all, I'd like to thank the OP for sticking around and keeping up with the thread.

2nd, this thread has quickly turned quite epic and one of my favorites.

I re-read the OP to savor the moment. Looking at rjg's bullet list, I envisioned a beaten-down man, loosened tie handing from his neck, with messed up hair, sitting at the dinner table TAKING NOTES while his wife paraded around the kitchen ranting, somewhat incoherently, throwing up hear arms at times.

I am just poking fun, and I hope you will be able to, OP, in the sense that you will be able to have a more productive chat with your wife in a few months.

Keep us updated.

[dragoncar]

Under no circumstance is it ok for a man's wife to threaten divorce after 30 min rant after man simply brings up a topic/idea. I don't care how fucking emotional you are, how stressed your are
SHE IS THE ONE WHO THREATENED THE DIVORCE. That is simply not acceptable. He NEVER threatened it. He just brought up a talking point with her.

I am sure (I hope) there is more to the story, but that is how I see it so far. This is all IMHO.

+1

Sounds like a lot of complainypants going on in here.  Wah wah I have hormones so I can't be expected to be a rational human for 6 months.  Wah wah I am stressed so a temper tantrum is justified.  The man merely brought up a suggestion.

I'm sorry, but your, or any person's ability to spout "complainypants" ends RIGHT HERE if you've never given birth, breastfed, worked, and pumped.  And if by any luck you are a woman who has done all of that, if you DIDN'T suffer from PPD then you STILL have to shut up.

And moreover, anyone who ISNT EXACTLY ME can shut up.  You don't know me!  I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake!!!!

I agree.  In fact I might even be more unique than you.  And that should exempt me from all criticism.

I find these two comments quite amusing given that the point is, this is not unique but if you don't have experience in the matter, your opinion really does not matter/hold water.  It is like someone who did not pass high school biology holding an opinion on evolution, that is nice but without any knowledge who would listen.  Perhaps boys, you may want to listen to the man who posted earlier "In almost everything else, I'm willing to bet you'd be willing to listen to the experts. Not only the women in this thread, but also all the psychologists they talked to, and all the psychologists YOU could talk to if you were willing to research this topic the same way you do investments or FIRE, would agree that it is a real thing, that people kinda go crazy in new and fun and interesting ways when they give birth, and that while this happens to both parents, the mothers get the REAL sharp end of the stick. Is the idea of being wrong about something really that uncomfortable?"

I'll have you know that I was breast fed extensively as a child, and I am therefore well qualified to hold an opinion on all such matters.



Seriously, though I have no idea what you are even talking about.  I do know that I am allowed to hold an opinion on anything I choose -- that's what makes it opinion, ya know?  There is no appeal to authority here, don't even try it.

[Middlesbrough]

I feel for you OP. You seem like a man whose child showed you the light. Once you have a child and are secure, what else do you really need?

I saw a similar thing occur with my BIL. I graduated with the same degree as he did. I don't have a lot in common with him, so conversation is usually difficult. The only softball I could toss his way was his job. Since his first child, I can see the massive change in him. When I ask about his job or what he is working on, most of it seems to have shades of grey and nothing seems heartfelt anymore. My nephew has showed him what is most important, but he still has to provide. I can tell he would love to be at home all day with his son.

Good luck with your situation!

[EricL]

Blargh.  Yeah she was wrong to go straight to "divorce" ya da, yada.  But I didn't intend help demonize her or heap thermite on the bonfire around her stake.  Unless marital counseling counts as such.  Right or wrong, justified or not what was said was said.  But I'll expand my previous actual advice.  Withdraw, regroup, reset and wait for an opportune time to initiate the discussion again.  Do the stupid job and embrace the suck.  In the meantime prep the battlefield with a series of comments and actions to smooth the way with logic and pay offs.  Strategize how to discuss how such changes benefits what she wants.  Anticipate that what she wants may not necessarily be what she says she wants.  Sometimes wants are mere masquerades for what people really want.  Script pleasing rebuttals to her objections (already so thoughtfully given).  And of course don't hit her up with this when she may already feel backed into a corner.  If you succeed she'll want to become frugal.  If you really succeed she might start to think it was her idea.  If you reach this point silence is a good option.

[terrier56]

This is an unusual topic and basing this on my own experiences it touches on a area I have been trying to work out.

Some people argue their point with emotion. Others argue with logic. The problem with emotions is that they are irrational. You can't develop a good basis for arguments if you take the emotion route. Personal insults and threats are often a sign of this. They also never back down or admit defeat despite logic provided resulting in a kind of stalemate (I feel like they would consider conceding a weakness, however, I am always happy to be proven wrong and conceded the moment I see the flaw in the logic).

In this thread the people who fight with emotion seem to back up everyone else who fights with emotion.

[pom]

Good luck on the European job search, it really changes the pace compared to NYC (although I suspect that London is the exception, almost worked there but chose Paris instead).

My wife will start looking for another job after our baby is born and we are thinking that Zurich would be nice. She is also worried about me retiring in about 3-4 years (I am 42) but I told her that as long as I could cover half of the family expenses from my personaly investment earnings I would do as I please. We'll see how it goes when I get close to FIRE day.

[rmendpara]

Didn't read through the responses, but here's a brief take:

1) She really does want to spend lots of money on whatever, and your conflicting goals may cause a rift in your marriage (blunt, I'm sorry)

2) There are some underlying insecurities/worries that make it terrifying for her. Admittedly, early retirement is scary. There are so many "What if's" in life, that it's hard for some people to imagine being retired before 60.

I think the way to approach this a little better is to talk more about Financial Independence and less about Early Retirement, specifically. After all, isn't FI what everyone is really after (even if you plan to continue working)?

Maybe try and take the approach to have a budget (doesn't need to be crazy mustachian), save and invest a lot to plan for life's crazy surprises, and go from there.

Also, over time, see if you can broach the topic in different ways to get her more comfortable with what you're really talking about and see if you can address her concerns one by one. Fear makes people react emotionally, not rationally. Remember that.

[expatartist]

A while back, a poster kindly attached a spreadsheet on Madrid's COL. Now, if you were to move to a more 'relaxed' area than Madrid, your costs could drop (while still retaining that cachet which is Europe to many North Americans). Why not consider trying it out for 3 months sometime during off-peak season (sept/oct-april/may) in southern Spain? There are houses/flats for rent which can keep your COL very low.

NB: If you're both US citizens on tourist visas, the max you can stay is 3 months. But if you'd like to get residency and, eventually, passports, that may be possible, once you have a regular income from investments. Here's how one US family is doing it: http://life.almostfearless.com/want-to-move-to-europe-whats-an-american-to-do/

[Doomspark]

I've been reading this thread and all the replies. Demonizing OP's wife for a statement made while emotionally upset is not helpful.  Neither is demonizing OP for terrible timing.  So let's get past the name-calling and stuff and look at the situation a little more reasonably.

OP:  don't figure on making any changes right now.  Having poked the bear, you've got to back off and reassure her for a while.  She's insecure and I would guess also high-strung to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong).  Don't try to play the martyr with her, especially not right now; guilting your partner into doing something can sound the death-knell for a relationship.

When the little one has been sleeping through the night for a while, and both of you have recovered from sleep deprivation, then start again.  Ask her what she wants - short term, mid term, and long term and how she sees your future playing out.  Get her to explain why she wants the things she wants.  This first conversation is all about what SHE is thinking and feeling.  Draw her out; let her do most of the talking. And try to get an idea about what things are most important to her.  For the love of God, if she starts getting upset, change the subject immediately.

You need to know where she stands before you can plan how to best work things out.

Then take the information she's given you, and think about it.  You'll have to decide if her goals and yours are mutually exclusive and what you want to do about it if they are.  Be willing to compromise - but be honest about it. If the compromise includes you keeping the job you hate, that's not likely to work out well.  When you resume the conversation - and keep it LIGHT - give her reasonable alternatives to what she wants that allow you a bit more of what you want.

If the word "compromise" is not in her vocabulary (it wasn't in my ex's), then you're going to have to decide what you want to do.

[PloddingInsight]

I do think her primary motives are security/stability, raising her child in the best possible way and having a husband she can be proud of.  I don't really see status as a big motivator honestky.

She wants you to be miserable so that she can be "proud" of you?  I dunno, that sounds like a status thing to me.

[BlueHouse]

She wants you to be miserable so that she can be "proud" of you?  I dunno, that sounds like a status thing to me.

I'm pretty sure the wife isn't thinking "I want a miserable husband". I'd venture a guess to say that wife isn't even aware how miserable husband feels right now.  I'd even bet that the OP may not have felt so miserable until he was faced with returning to work after FMLA. That's just an extreme case of Monday morning syndrome.
I find it curious how many people are willing to demonize the Wife without ever having heard her side of the story. Back off people! 

[little_owl]

Now it's pretty obvious to me that making changes in our cost of living would actually increase stability/security and enrich our child's life by allowing us to spend more time with him. But that's going to be a tough sell for her.

Starting my own business is an intersting idea though I have little interest in doing that or ideas for what it would be. It'd have to be a real money maker for her to accept it.

Rjg, first - you are in an enviable position to be able to consider RE, so congratulations.

Next, you have gotten some good advice already in this post (and some...less helpful comments).  I have two other ideas for you.

Read "Smart Couples Finish Rich," and do the value-based exercise that the author describes in the first few chapters.  This book is a little out of date in terms of investing specifics, but the value-based exercise is INVALUABLE.  In essence, it outlines a way for you and your spouse to have a PRODUCTIVE conversation that focused on your individual and joint values.  From what you have described, you and your wife share some values....but have differences too.  Starting with the VALUES allows you to begin the conversation in a neutral place, rather than running to action steps.  We do the values exercise roughly annually, and while the outcomes rarely change, it allows us to ensure we are placing our money where our values are.

Second, I would suggest you re-evaluate how you think about your partnership.  I quoted you above and bolded some of the language that you have been using that seems a little off to me.  Your language suggests that you need to get permission, approval from your wife to do anything.

This raises a flag to me, as a true partnership isn't about getting permission from one another.  I point this out only because you have used language like thispretty consistently in this post, and that might mean that you have (perhaps unintentionally) set up a very submissive / permissive relationship with your wife, which you may have to put some effort against "resetting.". One spouse being in charge of the other leads to frustration!

I hope you do keep us updated....while NYC is an amazing place to live, I hope you find a path to RE to get out of a job you do not enjoy.  You only have one trip around the merry go round, my friend.

[rjg]

I've been reading this thread and all the replies. Demonizing OP's wife for a statement made while emotionally upset is not helpful.  Neither is demonizing OP for terrible timing.  So let's get past the name-calling and stuff and look at the situation a little more reasonably.

OP:  don't figure on making any changes right now.  Having poked the bear, you've got to back off and reassure her for a while.  She's insecure and I would guess also high-strung to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong).  Don't try to play the martyr with her, especially not right now; guilting your partner into doing something can sound the death-knell for a relationship.

When the little one has been sleeping through the night for a while, and both of you have recovered from sleep deprivation, then start again.  Ask her what she wants - short term, mid term, and long term and how she sees your future playing out.  Get her to explain why she wants the things she wants.  This first conversation is all about what SHE is thinking and feeling.  Draw her out; let her do most of the talking. And try to get an idea about what things are most important to her.  For the love of God, if she starts getting upset, change the subject immediately.

You need to know where she stands before you can plan how to best work things out.

Then take the information she's given you, and think about it.  You'll have to decide if her goals and yours are mutually exclusive and what you want to do about it if they are.  Be willing to compromise - but be honest about it. If the compromise includes you keeping the job you hate, that's not likely to work out well.  When you resume the conversation - and keep it LIGHT - give her reasonable alternatives to what she wants that allow you a bit more of what you want.

If the word "compromise" is not in her vocabulary (it wasn't in my ex's), then you're going to have to decide what you want to do.

Makes a lot of sense. You are very right about her being high strung. It is very easy to rile her up - sometimes it happens when I think I'm saying something positive (for example FI). But this time I really seemed to have "poked the bear".

As for what's important to her, I already have a pretty good sense of that:
Education, travel, good food, safety/security, maintaining herself, maintaining me (she's very particular about wanting me to look good), being social

Money is a real land mine of an issue with her. I've only gotten her to work on a budget once (in preparation for our fmla) and it ended with her basically doubling all my estimates "to be safe".  If you met her parents it's not hard to understand. Her dad was a blue collar guy who struggled as a carpenter, furniture maker and contractor. Her mom came from an independently wealthy family and was very "flighty". Never worked for money.  Her mom and moms family used money as a means of control. She later remarried to a wealthy guy when my wife was 13 and was sent to boarding school (which she hated). So she bounced between 2 extremes.

My wife's financial philosophy is basically: never have debt, always work, don't trust the financial service industry (including the stock market). So pretty far from MMM's boundless optimism in that area.

She is supportive of me taking a year off to go back to a (top) school and get an MBA. She thinks that would boost my confidence and open up new opportunities while "clearing my head".  I'm not enamored with that idea because it would cost a lot of money and I'm skeptical that it would open up jobs that I'd actually want. But it may be a something to work wjth.

The idea of finding a job in Europe is interesting. That would make her very happy. I'd enjoy it too if the job wasn't too stressful. Neither of us speak a foreign language however.

I'm also looking at trying to find a lower stress/lower pay job here in NYC. The crazy part is that if I add up the nanny cost, the extra monthly carrying cost of our apt and the opportunity cost of the home equity that's locked up in our place it comes to atkeast 70k/year! So that's how much I need to make just to tread water in NYC.

70k is an odd number because it's not entry level but it's also far below what I make now. I'd likely be over or under qualified for jobs in that range. I'm not convinced that doing what I do now but working for a non profit or university is going to be much better. And getting my wife to agree to me making less than half my current salary will provoke a similar response to the FI discussion.

But I think I need to start making some changes, however small, to get "un stuck".

[Noodle]

I have kept thinking about your dilemma and hoping you and your wife will come to a resolution. I had another thought...

Is there any possibility that, even if she never said it out loud, your WIFE wished on some level that she were able to stay home with the baby? And denied herself that because she felt that giving baby the best life meant two working parents? In that case, I could imagine an internal dialogue that went something along the lines of "I wish I could stay home, but I toughed it out and went back to work so that we can give our baby the very best. And now Mr. R thinks HE gets to stay home, AND downgrade our whole lifestyle, just because HE doesn't feel happy about going to work... How does he think I feel? Well, buster..." Meltdown ensues. If she feels like you are asking for something that she has already denied herself (even if she hasn't totally admitted it consciously) I could see that bypassing the logic circuits and going straight to the red anger button, esp complicated by all the stress/hormones/sleep deprivation mentioned already.

[rjg]

Now it's pretty obvious to me that making changes in our cost of living would actually increase stability/security and enrich our child's life by allowing us to spend more time with him. But that's going to be a tough sell for her.

Starting my own business is an intersting idea though I have little interest in doing that or ideas for what it would be. It'd have to be a real money maker for her to accept it.

Rjg, first - you are in an enviable position to be able to consider RE, so congratulations.

Next, you have gotten some good advice already in this post (and some...less helpful comments).  I have two other ideas for you.

Read "Smart Couples Finish Rich," and do the value-based exercise that the author describes in the first few chapters.  This book is a little out of date in terms of investing specifics, but the value-based exercise is INVALUABLE.  In essence, it outlines a way for you and your spouse to have a PRODUCTIVE conversation that focused on your individual and joint values.  From what you have described, you and your wife share some values....but have differences too.  Starting with the VALUES allows you to begin the conversation in a neutral place, rather than running to action steps.  We do the values exercise roughly annually, and while the outcomes rarely change, it allows us to ensure we are placing our money where our values are.

Second, I would suggest you re-evaluate how you think about your partnership.  I quoted you above and bolded some of the language that you have been using that seems a little off to me.  Your language suggests that you need to get permission, approval from your wife to do anything.

This raises a flag to me, as a true partnership isn't about getting permission from one another.  I point this out only because you have used language like thispretty consistently in this post, and that might mean that you have (perhaps unintentionally) set up a very submissive / permissive relationship with your wife, which you may have to put some effort against "resetting.". One spouse being in charge of the other leads to frustration!

I hope you do keep us updated....while NYC is an amazing place to live, I hope you find a path to RE to get out of a job you do not enjoy.  You only have one trip around the merry go round, my friend.

I agree. I tend to be a pretty laid back "go along to get along" kind of person. When confronted wjth strong confrontational personalities I tend to back down. Combined wjth the fact that I've just been feeling depressed about my job, I haven't been a decisive leader at home or at work. This is something I need to work on as it leads to frustration. My guiding principle is "work less" which is anathema to many people at work and NYC in general.

[rjg]

I have kept thinking about your dilemma and hoping you and your wife will come to a resolution. I had another thought...

Is there any possibility that, even if she never said it out loud, your WIFE wished on some level that she were able to stay home with the baby? And denied herself that because she felt that giving baby the best life meant two working parents? In that case, I could imagine an internal dialogue that went something along the lines of "I wish I could stay home, but I toughed it out and went back to work so that we can give our baby the very best. And now Mr. R thinks HE gets to stay home, AND downgrade our whole lifestyle, just because HE doesn't feel happy about going to work... How does he think I feel? Well, buster..." Meltdown ensues. If she feels like you are asking for something that she has already denied herself (even if she hasn't totally admitted it consciously) I could see that bypassing the logic circuits and going straight to the red anger button, esp complicated by all the stress/hormones/sleep deprivation mentioned already.

Definitely. I think there is some conflicted emotion there. She wants to go back to work and doesn't want to go back. Whereas I just don't want to go back.

[dude]

As far as private education goes, my wife works in the education field (and is very opposed to things like the common core and the "testing" mandated by no child left behind. She thinks that the best private schools foster creativity and give more individual attention. I disagree but she's "the expert". I have suggested that maybe she try and find work as an admissions officer at such a school - maybe that would eventually allow us to send our kid there for reduced tuition. She seemed to like that idea. Of course, the schools she likes are either in NYC or Boston so that doesn't help wjth cost of living.

Dude, Boston and NYC are not in the same league.  Take it from someone who made the move (8 years ago), and whose wife bore some of the same traits as yours and only made the move kicking and screaming.  She pouted for almost a full year (always making off-hand comments about how Boston sucked and "it wasn't New York" blah, blah, blah).  I took a pay cut to come to Boston, but ended up with the same take home pay (no city tax, lower state tax), and everything, from housing to gas to food, is cheaper in Boston.  Now, if she wants to live in the Back Bay, or Newton, all bets are off, but otherwise, places like Cambridge, Somerville, East Boston, Jamaica Plain, etc, etc, are exceptional places to live only minutes from downtown.  And Massachusetts schools are some of the best in the nation.  Cambridge schools are world class.  Don't rule out a move to Boston as a potential compromise.  I can tell you that I've gotten FAR ahead since moving here.  Best thing we could have done financially.

[rjg]

As far as private education goes, my wife works in the education field (and is very opposed to things like the common core and the "testing" mandated by no child left behind. She thinks that the best private schools foster creativity and give more individual attention. I disagree but she's "the expert". I have suggested that maybe she try and find work as an admissions officer at such a school - maybe that would eventually allow us to send our kid there for reduced tuition. She seemed to like that idea. Of course, the schools she likes are either in NYC or Boston so that doesn't help wjth cost of living.

Dude, Boston and NYC are not in the same league.  Take it from someone who made the move (8 years ago), and whose wife bore some of the same traits as yours and only made the move kicking and screaming.  She pouted for almost a full year (always making off-hand comments about how Boston sucked and "it wasn't New York" blah, blah, blah).  I took a pay cut to come to Boston, but ended up with the same take home pay (no city tax, lower state tax), and everything, from housing to gas to food, is cheaper in Boston.  Now, if she wants to live in the Back Bay, or Newton, all bets are off, but otherwise, places like Cambridge, Somerville, East Boston, Jamaica Plain, etc, etc, are exceptional places to live only minutes from downtown.  And Massachusetts schools are some of the best in the nation.  Cambridge schools are world class.  Don't rule out a move to Boston as a potential compromise.  I can tell you that I've gotten FAR ahead since moving here.  Best thing we could have done financially.

She actually grew up in Cambridge. But is not excited by the prospect of moving back there. I'd love to live there. I agree that overall it makes a ton of sense

[dude]

As far as private education goes, my wife works in the education field (and is very opposed to things like the common core and the "testing" mandated by no child left behind. She thinks that the best private schools foster creativity and give more individual attention. I disagree but she's "the expert". I have suggested that maybe she try and find work as an admissions officer at such a school - maybe that would eventually allow us to send our kid there for reduced tuition. She seemed to like that idea. Of course, the schools she likes are either in NYC or Boston so that doesn't help wjth cost of living.

Dude, Boston and NYC are not in the same league.  Take it from someone who made the move (8 years ago), and whose wife bore some of the same traits as yours and only made the move kicking and screaming.  She pouted for almost a full year (always making off-hand comments about how Boston sucked and "it wasn't New York" blah, blah, blah).  I took a pay cut to come to Boston, but ended up with the same take home pay (no city tax, lower state tax), and everything, from housing to gas to food, is cheaper in Boston.  Now, if she wants to live in the Back Bay, or Newton, all bets are off, but otherwise, places like Cambridge, Somerville, East Boston, Jamaica Plain, etc, etc, are exceptional places to live only minutes from downtown.  And Massachusetts schools are some of the best in the nation.  Cambridge schools are world class.  Don't rule out a move to Boston as a potential compromise.  I can tell you that I've gotten FAR ahead since moving here.  Best thing we could have done financially.

She actually grew up in Cambridge. But is not excited by the prospect of moving back there. I'd love to live there. I agree that overall it makes a ton of sense

There is a renaissance going on in Boston.  It's palpable.  One of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, red hot real estate market, and an exploding tech and health care sector.  Get here before it really is as expensive as NYC.  Quality of life here is so much better.

[frugalnacho]

I don't think anyone claimed it wasn't real, just that it shouldn't be used an excuse for her behavior.

"I'm sorry officer, I was speeding because I'm drunk."

or how about

"I molested that child because I was abused when I was little."

Since when is bad behavior excused by anything at all?  Personal responsibility is tough, I know, but I think we're all adult enough to realize we should embrace it even when we don't want to.

exactly

[Noodle]

The other thing you might consider, and I mean this very, very kindly, is looking for someone to talk things through with before you come back to the next conversation with your wife. First of all, it sounds like you are looking to change the communications dynamic of your marriage--that you have a hard time asserting yourself with strong personalities, which your wife is. You may find some coaching will help you know how to frame the conversation, when to stand up for yourself and when to let it go, etc. This is all tough to figure out on the fly! The other issue is that it sounds possible you might be suffering from some depression. We have heard a lot about what you don't want to do or can't do, but not a lot about what you do want to do. Even the conversation about staying home with the baby has been less about how excited you are to spend time with this little person, and more about how you are dreading going back to work. (Again, this could just be the post-baby issues, as well as something bigger.) If you really want to make these changes, it will be a marathon. Think of this as training for the marathon! You will handle your wife's issues better if you are handling your own issues as well as possible.

[DoubleDown]

These nickling and diming suggestions are pointless. OP HAS $2.3 MILLION!!! He does not need to pack lunches or cut their heating bill by $10/month to make ER work. For crying out loud, he's already there! He can make it happen by extricating them from their high-priced lifestyle, and he recognizes it. As he said, just by selling their expensive place and going somewhere else, they could have a paid-off house and pretty damn luxurious monthly budget without even trying.

I disagree. Nickles and dimes quickly turn into $1,000 per month when you're living in that budget range. Packing lunches is probably $200 in savings each month (each). Unless you're willing to admit that it all makes a difference, then you're not really extricating yourself from anything.

I agree that OP and his wife spend a LOT of money, but I don't think that's the issue here. Packing one's lunch pails in comparison to having a nanny and a maid. And they're beyond the accumulation phase. Clearly, saving money will help them extricate themselves from the must-work-to-afford-our-lifestyle treadmill. I think the OP gets that, he acknowledged that right away. At the same time, a 4% SWR from $2.3 million gives off about $92,000/year in income for life. He recognizes that simply by moving to a lower cost of living area and all the inherent savings that come from getting out of NYC with a nanny, maid, "maintenance", they could easily make it. $92,000/year. It would not require PB&J sandwiches if they don't want that, and no turning off the A/C.

I think we're all for cutting expenses and waste, not just for the monetary aspect but because of the other reasons MMM espouses. But like I said, I don't think that's the primary issue here. OP has much bigger issues to deal with his wife's stance.

[norabird]

Just wanted to chime in on the NYC front. No, it's not the cheapest COL, yes, there are segments that are very status-focused, but there is nothing wrong with choosing to live here and it is totally compatible with also attempting to not spend so much. Valuing a place where one's career, friends etc. are, a place one feels at home and comfortable, is personal; and there's no need to insist that moving out of the city has to happen for the OP to downsize expenses. 6k a month is plenty to live on here, it's about changing the attitude and not the location IMO.

Note I have thought to myself before that I would never want to be with someone who didn't see himself staying here for the long term future. So while obviously having a family and spouse change things I get feeling wedded to the city. There may be room to shift that attitude, but it doesn't have to be on the table/required.

Good luck!

[SisterX]

OP, I thought of another small thing which might help.  Yet another book recommendation.  "Bringing Up Bebe".  It's about a New York transplant to Paris and how she saw raising kids in both locations.  Has nothing to do with money, but everything to do with how well-mannered the French kids were, how much more relaxed the parents were, blah blah blah Europeans do it all better and skinnier.  Doesn't matter if the topic is totally mind-numbingly boring to you, the point is that it's about parenting in Europe.  Maybe you could read that and get her to read it.  If she claims not to have time, suggest reading it aloud to the kid during feeding times.  That's what I did and it's good for both baby and mama because of the bonding.  Babies love hearing their mother's voices, and reading aloud to them from the get-go is one of the best things you can do for your kid.  If she doesn't want to do that, she'd probably find it adorable if she caught you reading aloud to Jr. and be intrigued by the book.  Plus, brownie points for you for reading a parenting book, and on your own initiative no less.   

The reason I suggest this is because it might light a fire under her for wanting that European travel/living and you could use that as a jumping off point for how to make it happen.  It's sneaky and subtle and it totally would have worked on me.  :)  Even if she doesn't read it herself, having you bring it up in conversation and talk about wanting to travel with her and Jr., being gently enthusiastic about it, and trying to cut costs so that you can make that dream happen for all of you, as a family, will probably go a long way toward helping her change her attitude and thinking.  At the moment she doesn't see any benefit to her and your family if you quit your job.  All she sees is the monetary loss, which is scary at any time but particularly with a new baby.  Others have said it but it bears lots of repeating: you need to make her see how all of this will benefit the family, and show her that you're working toward her dreams as well as your own.  If one method for selling the dream doesn't work, try another.  And another.  And another.  Plenty of people on the forums have noted that it took a while to sell their spouse on the idea of FI/ER, but once they did the spouse became even more motivated than they were.  I'm confident that you'll be able to find the right way to frame this for your wife to love it, but it may take some time.

Good luck!

[pipercat]

Sorry if this is redundant, I admit I haven't read every post:

Are there any goals that you and your wife share?  Even small ones?  While allowing the dust to settle from this discussion, I suggest focusing on those goals.  Let her see that you value your relationship more than money, and that you are willing to work hard to reach those common goals.

This is really the same thing we've seen a dozen times on these forums. . . how to get your spouse on-board.  Take small steps, focus first on yourself, and plant the seeds of frugality.  She may or may not come around, but your relationship will be stronger if you take a position of respect for her and her concerns.

[scrubbyfish]

Your language suggests that you need to get permission, approval from your wife to do anything.

This raises a flag to me, as a true partnership isn't about getting permission from one another.

Because I am actively learning about such things (in order to shift my own patterns), I would love to hear more about this concept, please, little_owl. I get that we want partnerships, equality...but don't we have to have a partner's agreement before we implement a change to our shared lifestyle? In genuine curiousity, I'd like to hear more about your perspective here.

On a note unrelated to that, but related to the larger thread, I did know one young couple in which the woman was extremely domineering, and ordered her husband not only to work full-time, but to work full-time in a job he hated, with a very long commute. She "required" him to earn a certain (very high) salary, and said she would leave him if he didn't. She also gave him explicit orders as to when to request a raise and for precisely how much. A very different situation from OP's (the wife refused to work, for starters), but reading this thread I'm reminded of how profoundly sad I felt watching that whole scenario. I asked her if she might consider working, if she wouldn't love more time with her husband, if she was concerned about his sadness... She said she didn't think she'd be able to get a job (lack of experience), that she wanted to stay home in any case, that this was the deal, etc. I really felt quite heartbroken for the young husband. He was incredibly smart and hardworking (and kind and helpful and sweet and handsome), but also very passive and even browbeaten. Yes, I would love to have seen him learn skills in standing up for himself within his marriage! I haven't seen them for a long time, and really hope they're doing better now.

[cpa cat]

Your language suggests that you need to get permission, approval from your wife to do anything.

This raises a flag to me, as a true partnership isn't about getting permission from one another.

Because I am actively learning about such things (in order to shift my own patterns), I would love to hear more about this concept, please, little_owl. I get that we want partnerships, equality...but don't we have to have a partner's agreement before we implement a change to our shared lifestyle? In genuine curiousity, I'd like to hear more about your perspective here.

You learn to pick a partner who wants to work with you, not have you work for them.

For instance, when this OP had gone to his wife, the ideal partnership would have involved her saying, "This is an interesting idea, but I have some concerns. My concerns are X. Do you think the benefits outweigh those concerns? Is there a way for us to make this happen while alleviating 80% of my concerns? etc" During a discussion like this, the conversation should be evolving while each partner contributes, thinks about it and returns to discuss some more.

In a good partnership, each spouse tries to maximize both spouse's happiness - not just their own.

You shouldn't ever be in a position where you're asking your partner, in essence, for permission to be happy. When you tell your partner what you need, their instinct should be to look for ways to make that work. Will compromises be involved? Probably. That's part of the partnership.

If you say to your partner, "I need to make X changes in order to be happy" and the response is the equivalent of "Too bad for you. Suck it up. In my top ten list of things I'm willing to sacrifice, your happiness is number 1," then that's not a partnership. That's a master-servant relationship.

Not every solution you come up with in your partnership will be 100% successful or involve instant gratification. But there should be an effort to come up with a compromise of some sort. Some give and take. It's not easy to resolve, for example: "I want to quit my job and move to a hippy commune and I can only truly be happy if I use leaves as toilet paper!" But I know a couple for whom the hippy commune dilemma was a legitimate problem, and they ended up deciding to take extended, year-long breaks every few years in which they live apart.

[former player]

Wow, what a thread.  Kudos to OP for sticking with it and coming back to comment.

The OP has been incredibly successful: he is a millionaire who earns the best part of $200,000 per annum and has a wife and new baby.  The problem is not his wife or his marriage, but the fact that he has realised that he hates his job.  That sounds pretty reasonable to me: a job which pays that much could very well be highly pressured, frequently require difficult and risky decisions, involve unsympathetic co-workers and provide little intrinsic reward.

OP doesn't really sound as though he is interested in the type of job which would require an MBA, or which is the same as he does now but in in a sector which pays less, or which involves moving to a different city or abroad, or which involves him starting his own business.  There is no spark of interest in any of those options.  So I don't get that following up on any of these options would be much of an improvement on the work situation he is in now.

So what to do?  Having a period off work (whether to look after a baby or not) provides time to look up and smell the roses, but the task of gearing up to go back to work often looks pretty daunting.  Proving to yourself that you can go back means that you are judging your hatred of your job from a position of strength not weakness.  So I would suggest to the OP that he does go back to work, for a short while at least.

I would then suggest that the OP, having gone back to work, picks a good time and starts a conversation along the lines of "I love you, I love baby.  But I hate my job and it is making me utterly miserable.  I can keep on doing it for a while but I don't think I can stomach growing old doing it."   He doesn't need to provide answers to the problem (ie early retirement) or ask his wife for answers (suck it up), just get her used to the idea that work is making her husband miserable.  If there is a good marriage there, once she has got used to that idea and taken it on board, both are at then the point where they can start to think together about solutions.

[LadyStache]

I wouldn't bring this up right away since you guys just had a massive fight and she's probably super stressed having recently given birth, but a good compromise might be moving to NJ. You can reduce costs with the move in a few ways, such as savings from the lower tax rate, lower costs for your car (NJ has super cheap gas, plus your insurance rates and parking fees would likely decrease), and cost savings from sending your child to public school. I know your wife prefers private schools, but there are a lot of great school districts in NJ, so you may be able to convince her. Show her this article for starters: http://www.nj.com/education/2014/08/new_jersey_has_the_best_school_systems_in_us_report_says.html

She could still choose to commute to her current job in New York, or since she works in education, maybe she could find a great job at a New Jersey school.

[DoubleDown]

I think it's funny how so many are assuming that OP's wife has PPD and/or must be sleep-deprived, even though the OP never suggested any such thing. Could be their baby is sleeping 5-6 hours a night without waking, and the wife gets to take naps all day, who knows.

A likely alternative explanation -- that the wife is just opposed to giving up the lifestyle (based on the reasons the OP actually has stated, such as her upbringing and feelings about money) -- seems to have been glossed over or ignored. Occam's Razor, and all that. We didn't have a newborn, and I got 99% of the same reaction from my wife, so...

[RapmasterD]

There is a 50% divorce rate in this country for many reasons, chief among them is a lack of values alignment among husband and wife. It's surprising that it took THIS conversation to unearth such a lack of alignment, but there you go.

All I can say to your wife is -- give it a decade and a half. Perhaps she won't be as 'married' to location as she is now. There are so many awesome places to live in this country and world. But I did not used to feel this way. And we still live in an extremely expensive area. That said, pounding away in middle management year after year and paying a fart load of taxes can change one's perspectives and open up one's mind over time.

[sobezen]

It seems like you tossed out a proposal to majorly upheave nearly every aspect of your lives.  Of course she freaked out. 

Are the things she mentions wanting things you currently have or have discussed?  if so, then I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect any reaction other than freaking out. 

Adults should never "freak out" and threaten divorce when their partner simply broaches a subject. Yes it would be a major life change IF THEY DID IT, but he simply raised a "hey what if we..." situation. If you can't do that without your partner 'freaking out' then you will not be able to ever discuss any important issues with them.

We already have a term for freaking out when somebody brings up something you don't like: it's called a temper tantrum, and mature adults don't do it, children do.

Agreed.  Sorry to hear your wife acted immaturely.  However, bear in mind you are proposing a radically different change in lifestyle and possibly, life goals.  We don't know much about your existing relationship, life goals, and communication styles.  But perhaps if you are willing to share, go ahead and let us know more about these key topics.

I would suggest if you can, to research the MMM articles about introducing Mustachianism to your partner.  This is not easily especially if they equate spending to a source of pleasure and it is a "right".  I've found these are both red flags, but spending as an escape, hobby or as a leisurely activity, often highlights other concerns.  Just like spending as an entitlement because they earned it, needs a reward, or how one works hard, so they deserve to play hard.  Side note, I greatly dislike that phrase and it is commonplace all over dating profiles.   

Be patient, use active listening and if needed go to counseling especially if you want to keep this relationship.  Good luck.

[rjg]

Ha- I've read brining up bebe and so has my wife. She'd be totally into that - as long as I had a job in Paris. European travel with no job is a no go for her (as of now)

Totally agree that cutting spending is the tail wagging the dog at this point. There may be some hope of moving to a cheaper place in the city and cutting expenses to become FI while staying here. Still a long way to go to get the wife to that point.

She goes back to work next week and is staring to have second thoughts. Told me this morning that she'd give it to November to see if she'd continue working. Wasn't really sure how to react to that - on the one hand she's suggesting similar changes to what she criticized me for but on the other hand I want to say "great! I'd like to join you". For now I said nothing. She said "what do you think?" And I responded "yeah let's see"

As some of you pointed out, it would help if I had something more concrete to offer than just the financial angle. Any thoughts on what could be the benefits to her of me quitting too? Any thoughts on ways to frame it in a more positive light (other than just spending more time with my son/helping with child care)?

The truth is I'd be content just doing that, doing errands, cooking, etc. But if I had something that sounded more compelling I think it would help. I've never been a go getter ambitious type so it's a bit unnatural for me to think in that way. No ideas or interest in starting my own business for example.

As far as sharing mmm articles, I have to tread carefully with that. I could see her just finding it ridiculous and ripping it apart. "So is this where you're getting these ideas?! You need to spend less time on the Internet! "

At this point she's probably rather I have a porn addiction than reading an early retirement  forum!

[scrubbyfish]

I think it's funny how so many are assuming that OP's wife has PPD and/or must be sleep-deprived, even though the OP never suggested any such thing. Could be their baby is sleeping 5-6 hours a night without waking, and the wife gets to take naps all day, who knows.

A likely alternative explanation -- that the wife is just opposed to giving up the lifestyle (based on the reasons the OP actually has stated, such as her upbringing and feelings about money) -- seems to have been glossed over or ignored.

I don't think (all) those of us pitching this are assuming she has these, just noting that these are very real possibilities, potential variables. Even if she were getting 5 hours of sleep at night, and a nap or two in the day, that wouldn't (in my experience) resolve the experience of the horrible hormonal shifts, the drain from breastfeeding on a standard Western diet, or even the exhaustion experienced when sleep is not a solid stretch of 7-9 hours and the sleep that's had is broken unnaturally as though by alarm vs according to one's own rhythm.

Absolutely it's just as possible that she is perfectly healthy, nurtured, calm, delighted with parenting, and physically/chemically balanced and just totally hates the ideas presented, yes.

We simply don't know where she's coming from, and can't know unless she posts herself. But personally, I think it's wise for the OP to consider all possible variables, as starting a conversation from a compassionate place which assumes the other is in need of kindness and gentleness is always yummy. Of course, I feel OP deserves the same considerations regarding his dreams for change.