Author Topic: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?  (Read 57618 times)

TheAnonOne

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #400 on: December 30, 2023, 05:58:01 PM »
Bit over 3 months now, and down 31lbs, back into the 220s.

I haven't been this weight for 6-7 years despite trying. Side effects are nearly 0 now. Maybe some tiredness 1 day a week after taking the dose.

I'm about 10 lbs from being my lowest adult weight -ever-, if I do end up achieving that, I'll have to actually start thinking about the ultimate goal.

Down to 210. (50lbs down)

GLP1 drugs are pure magic. 270 down to 210 with very little effort, side effects, or downsides. Long term effects TBD obviously.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #401 on: May 20, 2024, 10:26:50 AM »
Warning, semi-necro post!

I just watched this discussion about Ozempic and thought it was informative, fair, and a great conversation starter -

The stunning side effects of Ozempic | Johann Hari

disclaimer - most of Pakman's stuff is political, so I'm not endorsing anything other than this one video.  Johann wrote the book 'The Magic Pill' and he had some really good points, my favorite one being about how processed foods have exploded obesity since the late 1970's.  Our modern lifestyle has created an artificial problem leading to obesity and right now the most effective solution we have is an artificial one also.  The ideal, of course, is that we solve the underlying problem - cheap and ubiquitous processed foods hijacking our society.

And my own personal reflection - Sadly, this 'junk hijacking our future' is a recurring theme in many areas of American life, with food and obesity being the most tangible example.  I find it fascinating that just solving the problem (e.g. replacing processed food with whole foods) didn't fix the problem in a controlled study, the rats instead stopped eating until near starvation.  The best way to 'fix' the problem is to never have the problem, but society is unwilling to admit this is necessary or even consider returning to 'beforetimes'...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 10:28:28 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

mm1970

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #402 on: May 24, 2024, 10:49:23 AM »
Quote
And my own personal reflection - Sadly, this 'junk hijacking our future' is a recurring theme in many areas of American life, with food and obesity being the most tangible example.  I find it fascinating that just solving the problem (e.g. replacing processed food with whole foods) didn't fix the problem in a controlled study, the rats instead stopped eating until near starvation.  The best way to 'fix' the problem is to never have the problem, but society is unwilling to admit this is necessary or even consider returning to 'beforetimes'...

This is so fascinating.  The one thing that I took out of the book Burn, by Herman Pontzer is that.  Well, I got a lot of interesting things out of the book.  But the finale, the "what can we do?" was basically, we need to stop eating ultra processed foods.  But recognize that if you are already overweight, this is very very very unlikely to make you not overweight.  You probably cannot fix that.

I'm so tired these days and DH is doing more cooking and there are WAY more processed foods in my kids' diet than when I was doing most of the cooking.  I still try and throw fruits and veg at them.

Dee_the_third

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #403 on: May 25, 2024, 01:05:17 PM »
Huh, thanks for the link @EscapeVelocity2020. This one resonated with me, especially the part where the author realized his KFC bucket was an attempt to salve his grief.  I realized after tracking my food intake for a few weeks that nearly all of my weight gain and/or (in)ability to lose weight since having kids can be attributed to late night snacking of processed foods after the kids are in bed. I’m eating to unwind and inject some good feelings into a brain that’s totally frazzled from chasing my little chaos monkeys all day.

Processed foods change your brain chemistry. It tracks.

ebella

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #404 on: May 27, 2024, 11:27:09 AM »
30 years ago medication for weight loss sometimes lead to illness and death. I know a couple of people that this happened to. Hopefully the new drugs are better but not worth it for me.

Yeah, I remember the whole Fen-Phen debacle (or various other amphetamines and stimulants) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine

I have never taken any other weight loss pill or medication, but the fact that GLP-1 was initially designed for diabetes care and only later discovered had the side effect of weight loss was reassuring.  I also would stop taking it if it had any psychoactive effects (speeding up resting heart rate, making me agitated, overheating, etc.).  All I have noticed thus far is that it curbs hunger and suppresses appetite, but in a very subtle way.  I still get hungry, but not as often and feel full sooner.  I have even experimented in eating a bit more sugar in my diet and did not gain weight!  It's like it used to be in my 20's and 30's...

Not trying to change any hearts and minds by posting all this, just want put my experience out there.  I had no problems maintaining a healthy weight from my teens until my mid-40's through a reasonable amount of exercise and a reasonable diet, losing weight when I put my mind to it and being relaxed about it otherwise.  At some point in my 40's, my diet got increasingly restrictive (no added sugars, more plant based, no snacking, IF...) and my exercise got increasingly intense (fewer rest days, more variety) and I was still gaining weight.  I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid and put on a synthetic hormone for that, which helped my weight and mood a bit, but again my weight has been creeping up over the years and now I am getting more injuries.

If there is a tool which helps me maintain my ability to lead a healthy lifestyle like I used to - augmenting reasonable diet and exercise, then I am open minded to try it.  I will also be open minded to wean myself off if I am experiencing negative effects or get negative results from my annual physical.  I am also continuing to educate myself on any new information (and secretly hoping Huberman will put out an update to this podcast soon).

I was actually just prescribed Phentermine by my GP when I asked for GLP1s.  For context, I am an obese 5'4" 39 yo woman who is otherwise totally healthy (normal BP, HT, cortisol, no diabetes) and my insurer is Kaiser.  While he could prescribe me Wegovy, I'd have to pay $1000/mo out of pocket for it. I'm pretty fit (road bike 20-30 mi weekly), strength train 2-3 days per week including some HIIT and jump training and eat mostly whole foods.  I'd been trying for 6 mo to just lose weight with diet and exercise but, at my weight, I was experiencing major joint pain in knees, feet, and ankles (I stopped distance running and switched to biking in my 30s because, even when I was a healthy BMI, my knees and distance running do not jive).  So I've had to cut back on the higher calorie burn stuff I really love and can do socially and focus on pilates and swimming which are not much burn per hour.  Working with a nutritionist and calorie tracking has been even more challenging too (my husband has a physical job and very different dietary needs than I do and loves to take me out to dinner so I'm a "buzzkill" when I say I can't). So it's a double whammy of the willpower to deny things I love (good food, dining out with husband) and being in too much pain to do the more efficient calorie burning and social exercises I enjoy.  Super skeptical of more pharmaceuticals generally but I, like you, I am open to tools for dropping at least 15% of my bodyweight so I can get back to higher burn exercises I enjoy. 
Phentermine (not to be confused with Phen-fen) is an older generation appetite suppressant.  So are Qsymia and Contrave (which Kaiser wants me to try if it doesn't work before they'll cover Wegovy).  I've only been on it a few days but intrusive food thoughts are less and I have more energy and no apparent side effects.  I think this may be bc it's a stimulant so interferes with the dopamine receptors that make a calorie deficit so challenging and gives you a little pep.  FDA doesn't recommend usage for more than 2 mo bc it can raise BP and HR and become addictive. None of these are major risks for me bc I have abnormally low BP (40 or 50 over 90 or 100) and HR (50 RHR) and no history of addiction. But I'm monitoring all these closely and will stop using in 2 mo anyway to either switch medications or if my weight has become such that its easier to reach my goals, get that serotonin exercise high that only high intensity exercise or outdoor hikes/bike/runs get me, and keep up the calorie deficit routine. 
TL/DR: I think all pharma interventions, but especially weight loss ones, are just this delicate dance of trying to find the right tool for the problem without causing more problems and then using that in conjunction with lifestyle adjustment and an awareness of unique individual risk factors.  E.g.  I'm probably better able to handle a short-term stimulant than an older person who is obese or a younger one with diff BP and HR numbers and exercise habits.   I've tried to read the studies on these drugs but even those can be so biased (who is funding, what are controls, what is the sample) because I feel like my medical providers can't give me much individualized attention and are in a medical-industrial complex vicious cycle of churning thru patients with 1 size fits all pharma interventions.  It's all ultimately kind of a roll of the dice when it comes to these drugs.  But they can be useful tools if you get the right one for the job and use it correctly.
 

Telecaster

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #405 on: May 27, 2024, 12:00:43 PM »
I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

Calories in is straightforward but calories out is tricky.   

Dee_the_third

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #406 on: May 27, 2024, 02:10:29 PM »

I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

You’re not wrong, but the “Just eat less and exercise more” approach clearly is not working- obesity continues to climb. Are people these days less disciplined, lazier, unwilling to put in the work than folks 50 years ago? I mean, maybe. But clearly the same old solution of shaming other people’s habits isn’t working.

GuitarStv

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #407 on: May 27, 2024, 07:54:40 PM »

I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

You’re not wrong, but the “Just eat less and exercise more” approach clearly is not working- obesity continues to climb. Are people these days less disciplined, lazier, unwilling to put in the work than folks 50 years ago? I mean, maybe. But clearly the same old solution of shaming other people’s habits isn’t working.

Eat less and exercise works in some circumstances, and is doomed to fail in others.

If you are surrounded by poor options for food - things that are convenient, tasty, high calorie and don't make you feel all that full . . . you will overconsume.  If you can surround yourself with foods that are convenient, healthy, and high satiety then the odds are you will be able to control consumption better.

A variety of things in our society has made the former a much more common happenstance.

Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #408 on: May 27, 2024, 10:18:40 PM »
You really have to organize your life like a sober alcoholic would, trying to keep those trigger foods completely out of sight so they’re not an option. I still struggle when spouse brings home some processed snacks, though some of them aren’t a problem for me (for example, I ate so much ice cream during the pandemic that I no longer am tempted by it).

My coach at the gym is a competitive body builder/athlete, in incredible shape. They said they can’t keep any kind of nut butters at home because they’ll eat too much of it, though one trick they had for that was to keep it in the freezer.

One thing I learned in my recent WL journey is a bunch of new food substitutions.

I think that what perhaps is happening for many of us very active people who find our weight creeping up as we age is a perfect storm:

—mostly long slow endurance exercise, which tends to be catabolic (consumes muscle mass)
—little to no strength training
—intense effort followed by excessive rest (instead of effective, moderate strength effort and zone 2 cardio/high NEAT)
—gradual increase in processed foods and general higher calorie foods, increase in overall daily calories, becoming accustomed to high cal/low satiety foods as frequent (daily or several times/day) reward
—more alcohol, more fast food, more restaurants
—more sedentary life with way more screen time
—low NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis, things like daily step count)
—gradual loss of muscle mass and gain of fat leading to slower metabolism

I was blaming my increase in weight on factors out of my control plus middle age. Now I am realizing that all the above (except for the drinking/fast food/restaurants, I don’t do those myself) was happening. And it’s slow and insidious, and takes conscious effort to go against this tide!

Anyway see my other posts for what is working for me now in terms of body recomposition!




« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 06:47:43 PM by Fru-Gal »

Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #409 on: May 27, 2024, 11:55:00 PM »
Also I want to be clear that in my case I am aiming to get back to measurements/weight and blood work that correlates to being in peak health FOR ME. It is not me trying to get to a size/body type that I have never had.

Right now the effectiveness of the new drugs is making a lot of people who were always on the rounder side look suddenly gaunt, and while I can imagine, especially for those in the entertainment industry, that this is a perk for them, at the same time it seems like some of these people are pushing for a body type they never had. I hope that the resultant muscle and bone density loss won’t cause them problems in the future.

Basically this is the other side of the coin of kind of industrialized body dysmorphia that we saw happening with steroids where male movie stars suddenly all started getting extremely jacked. Now so many young male fitness influencers are playing a dangerous game with steroids.

OTOH as with gastric sleeve surgery, there will be some who are able to then make a complete lifestyle change with the help of the medical intervention, and maintain a consistent physique. Maybe the GLP-1 drugs are, like in the YT video mentioned above, the necessary interruptor for the ultra processed food addiction.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 11:57:15 PM by Fru-Gal »

GuitarStv

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #410 on: May 28, 2024, 07:54:50 AM »
Basically this is the other side of the coin of kind of industrialized body dysmorphia that we saw happening with steroids where male movie stars suddenly all started getting extremely jacked. Now so many young male fitness influencers are playing a dangerous game with steroids.

The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

mm1970

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #411 on: May 28, 2024, 11:35:30 AM »
I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

Calories in is straightforward but calories out is tricky.


I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

You’re not wrong, but the “Just eat less and exercise more” approach clearly is not working- obesity continues to climb. Are people these days less disciplined, lazier, unwilling to put in the work than folks 50 years ago? I mean, maybe. But clearly the same old solution of shaming other people’s habits isn’t working.


Yep.  Calories out is the hard part because the body is VERY good at making adjustments - it's why super duper active societies don't actually burn more calories than sedentary people.  The body adjusts.

So, you eat less food and the body has the ability to slow down OTHER background bodily functions.  And here's where ultra processed food and overweight/ obesity come in.  Once you've been overweight or obese, you body will fight tooth and nail with all of its ability to get back to that high weight.  It's one reason why in shows like The Biggest Loser - the contestants often gain back the weight - but at the end are burning FEWER calories ("Calories out" is less) than BEFORE they lost the weight - even when they are back at their original weight.

TLDR - eat healthy food.  Exercise regularly.  Build muscle.  Do your best.  Use medication when warranted.  And when interacting with others: don't be a jerk.  Your experience is not their experience.

Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #412 on: May 28, 2024, 11:57:39 AM »
Quote
The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

And a good example of the dysmorphia that can happen is Alan Ritchson, who plays Jack Reacher on the new show. Season one he looked great and very much the part of a massive guy as described in the books. Of course, he was already a lot bigger than when he was first in movies. Then season 2 rolls around and many viewers were like woah what happened!! He looks like a side of beef, running looks difficult, his face is becoming enlarged. It starts to be concerning, like you worry about how his heart muscle is handling all this. I hope he can pull back a bit on the juice. He has described some of his regimen and it’s intense.

Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #413 on: May 28, 2024, 12:06:59 PM »
Quote
And when interacting with others: don't be a jerk.  Your experience is not their experience.

Hope you are not referring to me.

I am really excited about what I’ve been learning as it’s been 7 years of not being able to consistently stay around the size I had been for my entire life, with concomitant signs in my blood work. I am really hoping that once I get to where I’m aiming for, I will finally be out of the range that has been worrying my doc & me, as spouse manages a chronic disease I would really like to avoid developing.

Of course different things work for different people.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 12:09:59 PM by Fru-Gal »

mm1970

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #414 on: May 28, 2024, 01:46:25 PM »
Quote
And when interacting with others: don't be a jerk.  Your experience is not their experience.

Hope you are not referring to me.

I am really excited about what I’ve been learning as it’s been 7 years of not being able to consistently stay around the size I had been for my entire life, with concomitant signs in my blood work. I am really hoping that once I get to where I’m aiming for, I will finally be out of the range that has been worrying my doc & me, as spouse manages a chronic disease I would really like to avoid developing.

Of course different things work for different people.
Nope, not referring to you.  I enjoy  your posts.  They are well written and informative - and they recognize that people are different from one another - and also, what works when you are 20 isn't necessarily what works when you are older.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #415 on: May 28, 2024, 03:31:46 PM »
In addition to the talk about calories out, I'd also argue that the calories in part is just as confusing, complex, and nuanced.  For example, is there a definitive study showing that 1000 calories of romaine & veggies counts the same as 1000 calories of food with processing (e.g. a mix of sandwich bread, meats, cheese, condiments)?  I really thought I was eating better as I got older (no more fast food, much more salad) and yet I was still gaining weight once I got in to my late 40's...

The nice thing with salads is that it takes longer to eat and I felt better afterwards, but I'd still end up having a sandwich and chips when I was in a hurry.  I tried really hard to keep the two roughly equal calories, but managing the calories in was always harder for me than the calories out...

I don't even think about it now that I'm on a GLP-1, but I feel like I have kept a similar diet and calories in as to pre-GLP.  Calories out (according to my FitBit and having a consistent exercise regimen) is the same.  And yet the weight flew off (at least initially).  I chalk it up to less calories absorbed in my intestine and feeling fuller longer, so probably less snacking.  Even with periods of intense increased exercise, I was never able to maintain a reduced weight until I used a GLP-1.  Even now, if I cut back on the GLP-1 dosage but keep everything equivalent (calories in, calories out) my weight drifts up...

As magnificent as the human body is, it really sucks at managing weight when you get older.

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #416 on: May 28, 2024, 03:37:40 PM »
Basically this is the other side of the coin of kind of industrialized body dysmorphia that we saw happening with steroids where male movie stars suddenly all started getting extremely jacked. Now so many young male fitness influencers are playing a dangerous game with steroids.

The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

Huh, I thought all those defined abs on actors were the result of makeup artists and photoshop.

wenchsenior

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #417 on: May 28, 2024, 05:35:21 PM »


I don't even think about it now that I'm on a GLP-1, but I feel like I have kept a similar diet and calories in as to pre-GLP.  Calories out (according to my FitBit and having a consistent exercise regimen) is the same.  And yet the weight flew off (at least initially).  I chalk it up to less calories absorbed in my intestine and feeling fuller longer, so probably less snacking.  Even with periods of intense increased exercise, I was never able to maintain a reduced weight until I used a GLP-1.  Even now, if I cut back on the GLP-1 dosage but keep everything equivalent (calories in, calories out) my weight drifts up...


It's possible you have insulin resistance and just didn't know it. As I've noted elsewhere (possibly in this thread), it's absolutely rampant in the populations of most developed nations (hence the incredible surge in diabetes since 1990) and most people don't even know when they have it, at least not until prediabetes or diabetes develops.

While calorie deficit is always required to lose weight, it is not always as simple as CICO since several health conditions (two of them extremely common: thyroid disease and insulin resistance) can greatly hinder the 'out' part of that equation. High prolactin and various adrenal/cortisol disorders can also hinder weight loss (these are not as common but are certainly out there).


Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #418 on: May 28, 2024, 06:44:01 PM »
Thanks, @mm1970 !

I really would like to get some input or guidance on where to look for research on this idea that I’m working with, as expressed above (the “perfect storm”).

My thesis is, it’s not aging, it’s the passage of time. Get it?

In other words, aging has recently been proven to NOT lower metabolism (I admit I don’t know about aging causing other stuff like insulin resistance).

So if you rule out physiological effects of aging on weight gain, you are left with the passage of time. And if every year you replace a little more muscle with a little more fat, you lower your metabolism and your bone density. Do that for years or decades and presto, it’s harder than ever to lose weight.

The fact that we are seeing much more obesity in children and young adults should indicate that it’s not an aging issue. It’s just that we’re hitting middle age right around the time that all these processed foods and super sedentary lifestyles have become common.

Anyway that’s my theory.

As a woman, of course my weight has gone up and down many times in my life, especially around pregnancy and breast feeding. Nursing the first kid left me skinnier than I had ever been. But then second kid, the same routine, indeed, nursing for even longer, did not have the same result. And I was young! That’s about the time I started really getting into endurance sports, and that did work for a time to get myself back to my pre-pregnancy body.

But then 10-15 years later, I found I could gain weight while doing all sorts of endurance sports. Marathons, etc. Again, see my theory above…
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 06:48:30 PM by Fru-Gal »

Metalcat

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #419 on: May 29, 2024, 05:34:08 AM »
Basically this is the other side of the coin of kind of industrialized body dysmorphia that we saw happening with steroids where male movie stars suddenly all started getting extremely jacked. Now so many young male fitness influencers are playing a dangerous game with steroids.

The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

Steroid use is also extremely common among women now as well.

And yeah, it's pretty safe to assume that the vast, overwhelming majority of fitspo online is produced by illegal appearance and performance enhancing drugs (APED)

Looks Can Kill is an absolute must read for anyone wanting to understand how insanely pervasive the use of APEDs is, especially among young people.

My sister and I watched the first season of Love is Blind together and when they followed up with the contestants a year later it was so obvious that all of the men on the show had started using steroids.

She didn't even notice because we're just so accustomed to seeing steroid phenotypes in media now, it just looks normal to most people.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #420 on: May 29, 2024, 05:57:47 AM »
You really have to organize your life like a sober alcoholic would, trying to keep those trigger foods completely out of sight so they’re not an option. I still struggle when spouse brings home some processed snacks, though some of them aren’t a problem for me (for example, I ate so much ice cream during the pandemic that I no longer am tempted by it).

My coach at the gym is a competitive body builder/athlete, in incredible shape. They said they can’t keep any kind of nut butters at home because they’ll eat too much of it, though one trick they had for that was to keep it in the freezer.

One thing I learned in my recent WL journey is a bunch of new food substitutions.

I think that what perhaps is happening for many of us very active people who find our weight creeping up as we age is a perfect storm:

—mostly long slow endurance exercise, which tends to be catabolic (consumes muscle mass)
—little to no strength training
—intense effort followed by excessive rest (instead of effective, moderate strength effort and zone 2 cardio/high NEAT)
—gradual increase in processed foods and general higher calorie foods, increase in overall daily calories, becoming accustomed to high cal/low satiety foods as frequent (daily or several times/day) reward
—more alcohol, more fast food, more restaurants
—more sedentary life with way more screen time
—low NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis, things like daily step count)
—gradual loss of muscle mass and gain of fat leading to slower metabolism

I was blaming my increase in weight on factors out of my control plus middle age. Now I am realizing that all the above (except for the drinking/fast food/restaurants, I don’t do those myself) was happening. And it’s slow and insidious, and takes conscious effort to go against this tide!

Anyway see my other posts for what is working for me now in terms of body recomposition!

I've studied addiction for years and it really does help for understanding consumption motivation.

It's important to understand that the most addictive substances are the fast-delivery ones. Drugs are more addictive if they get you high faster. The brain craves whatever is the shortest path to satisfaction.

With eating, this means that the brain will scan your house for whatever is in it that's edible and zero in on the fastest, most calorie dense option it can come up with.

So if you have the makings of a salad, which will take time to assemble, or you have a fatty ultra processed item in your freezer or pantry that can be heated up quickly, that's what you're going to crave.

I work with a few clients on eating psychology, and the first step I work on is to understand cravings. We simultaneously tackle the emotional self-medication motivation beyond eating and logistically tackle the access problems.

If you want to crave whole foods, you have to kind of mindfuck your own brain. You have to make whole food options the fastest/easiest/laziest option.

In my house, I can have cookies or cake, that's not a problem, but I have to make them, which I'm basically never motivated to do when I'm snacky, so I don't crave cookies and cake because those take time.

In my house, the fridge is perpetually packed with extremely lazy, whole food eating options. I bulk cook meals and pre-portion them, I keep hard boiled eggs, hummus, and veggies at all times, and bananas.

When I have an urge to eat, I can observe my brain do it's food scan and settle on hard boiled eggs, raw peppers, and hummus as the most tempting option. It's a passive process, I don't have to exert any will power to choose whole foods over ultra processed snacks, and my brain won't crave ultra processed snacks because that would require going to the store, which takes more time.

Making the decision making process passive, for me, was always the key to how I lost a lot of weight and kept it off.

I don't have a ton of willpower, if I depend on willpower and active decision making for healthy habits, I would be fucked. I've always had to create systems that make the outcome I want the most passive and automatic one.

So that means the two-pronged approach of working *with* how the brain craves food AND addressing the self-soothing aspect of eating for comfort/boredom/etc, by making sure that eating as a coping skill is effectively replaced with an alternative coping skill.

Because if someone eats as a coping skill, taking that skill away just increases the very stress they were eating to manage, which is more likely to make any eating modification fail and rebound hard.

It has to be easy to be sustainable.

For example, since my leg got mangled, it's been much more challenging for me to bulk cook. DH can help, but it's not at all efficient or pleasant for us to cook together. We ended up buying a lot more processed food options over the last year as a result and were not at all happy with that solution.

So instead, I've hired a cooking assistant to lighten my work load. It costs about the same as buying more processed food, and makes healthier options easier.

I work within the assumption that if it's not easy, I won't do it. Taking care of my body must be the easiest and most pleasant option for it to be a sustainable solution.

Fru-Gal

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #421 on: May 29, 2024, 11:38:37 PM »
Fantastic explanation as usual, @Metalcat!

Here’s a video on the topic of adding muscle, claiming that new studies show it is literally never too late to do so.

https://youtu.be/2G4arrouEk8

rothwem

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #422 on: May 30, 2024, 02:38:53 PM »
Quote
The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

And a good example of the dysmorphia that can happen is Alan Ritchson, who plays Jack Reacher on the new show. Season one he looked great and very much the part of a massive guy as described in the books. Of course, he was already a lot bigger than when he was first in movies. Then season 2 rolls around and many viewers were like woah what happened!! He looks like a side of beef, running looks difficult, his face is becoming enlarged. It starts to be concerning, like you worry about how his heart muscle is handling all this. I hope he can pull back a bit on the juice. He has described some of his regimen and it’s intense.

I'm conflicted on TRT usage by male actors.  Ritchson is 40 or so, and there's no way that he's going to hold onto muscle like a 20 year old will, and having muscle mass into your later ages is shown to have pretty extensive health benefits.  I don't think these guys are injecting crazy dosages like Arnold in the 70's, I think the goal is just to put you back to something equivalent to a 20-25 year old's testosterone level.  I don't really know specifics though, do they cycle like the old school bodybuilders did or are they on a constant low dose that they can't/won't/don't stop?

I'm very impressed that Ritchson was able to put on 30 pounds of muscle in 8 months naturally for the first season, being that he's no spring chicken.  I'm a lean 6'2"/205 like Ritchson was before he landed the role-- but at 37, there's no fucking way I'd get to a lean 235 without some kind of chemical assistance.

dividendman

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #423 on: May 30, 2024, 02:49:19 PM »
Quote
The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

And a good example of the dysmorphia that can happen is Alan Ritchson, who plays Jack Reacher on the new show. Season one he looked great and very much the part of a massive guy as described in the books. Of course, he was already a lot bigger than when he was first in movies. Then season 2 rolls around and many viewers were like woah what happened!! He looks like a side of beef, running looks difficult, his face is becoming enlarged. It starts to be concerning, like you worry about how his heart muscle is handling all this. I hope he can pull back a bit on the juice. He has described some of his regimen and it’s intense.

I'm conflicted on TRT usage by male actors.  Ritchson is 40 or so, and there's no way that he's going to hold onto muscle like a 20 year old will, and having muscle mass into your later ages is shown to have pretty extensive health benefits.  I don't think these guys are injecting crazy dosages like Arnold in the 70's, I think the goal is just to put you back to something equivalent to a 20-25 year old's testosterone level.  I don't really know specifics though, do they cycle like the old school bodybuilders did or are they on a constant low dose that they can't/won't/don't stop?

I'm very impressed that Ritchson was able to put on 30 pounds of muscle in 8 months naturally for the first season, being that he's no spring chicken.  I'm a lean 6'2"/205 like Ritchson was before he landed the role-- but at 37, there's no fucking way I'd get to a lean 235 without some kind of chemical assistance.

Ritchson did not add 30 lbs of muscle in 8 months naturally. But I agree with you, it may be that taking some testosterone is beneficial for older males... I wonder when the jury (studies) will come in on that.

rothwem

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #424 on: May 30, 2024, 03:06:11 PM »
Quote
The use of steroids and growth hormone among actors is an open secret at this point.  You can't throw a stick without hitting a guy on the juice.  Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Kumali Nanjiani, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Sylvester Stallone, Zac Effron, Henry Caville, Arnold Schwarzenegger . . . all actors who have had body transformations that are not naturally possible (due to age or speed of transformation) or have admitted to using steroids.  Honestly, it's safer to assume that anyone you see on screen who looks like they're in great shape is taking drugs . . . and will continue to be until Hollywood performs drug testing.

And a good example of the dysmorphia that can happen is Alan Ritchson, who plays Jack Reacher on the new show. Season one he looked great and very much the part of a massive guy as described in the books. Of course, he was already a lot bigger than when he was first in movies. Then season 2 rolls around and many viewers were like woah what happened!! He looks like a side of beef, running looks difficult, his face is becoming enlarged. It starts to be concerning, like you worry about how his heart muscle is handling all this. I hope he can pull back a bit on the juice. He has described some of his regimen and it’s intense.

I'm conflicted on TRT usage by male actors.  Ritchson is 40 or so, and there's no way that he's going to hold onto muscle like a 20 year old will, and having muscle mass into your later ages is shown to have pretty extensive health benefits.  I don't think these guys are injecting crazy dosages like Arnold in the 70's, I think the goal is just to put you back to something equivalent to a 20-25 year old's testosterone level.  I don't really know specifics though, do they cycle like the old school bodybuilders did or are they on a constant low dose that they can't/won't/don't stop?

I'm very impressed that Ritchson was able to put on 30 pounds of muscle in 8 months naturally for the first season, being that he's no spring chicken.  I'm a lean 6'2"/205 like Ritchson was before he landed the role-- but at 37, there's no fucking way I'd get to a lean 235 without some kind of chemical assistance.

Ritchson did not add 30 lbs of muscle in 8 months naturally. But I agree with you, it may be that taking some testosterone is beneficial for older males... I wonder when the jury (studies) will come in on that.

Enh, I'm not sure about that.  He's pretty open about using TRT between Seasons 1 and 2, but he claims to have not used anything other than lots of food to bulk up for the first season.  And his physique kinda supports that--guys on steroids tend to have huge traps and deltoids and a protruding six pack--and that isn't present in Season 1 but incredibly obvious in Season 2. 


EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #425 on: June 13, 2024, 08:24:12 AM »
For whatever reason, this topic popped back in to my mind today.

We all like to think that we are the masters of our own universe.  For example, if I work out enough (use a trainer, put in the time, dial in the nutrition), I'll ultimately reach my body type goal.  But I hit a wall every time, I just can't get body-builder sized muscle mass.  A lot of that is likely due to not having the same natural testosterone and hormone levels that successful bodybuilders have.  But I could take steroids and 'break natures limitations'.  Same thing for this GLP-1.  I probably used to have higher naturally occurring levels and they have dropped off due to aging.  So now I am supplementing what was lost and getting back to the same results I used to get...

Long story short, I'm falling more in to the camp that we are products of our nature/genetics vs. we are in control and just suck at calories in - calories out.  It's not black or white by any means, but there is more gray there than most give credit for.

Side note, I came across this Nextdoor conversation yesterday "OZEMPIC - A word of advice to anyone who is planning to venture taking this weight loss shot. Be aware and don’t ruin your kidneys or mess up your body functions! I know someone who took it for 4-5 weeks, and sure, she started losing weight but is as sick as a dog now as her one of her kidneys not doing well!".  The thread is up to 65 comments and going strong with conflicting / completely wrong information, but there is no scientific evidence that Ozempic damages kidney function.  If anything, it tends to improve it (due to lowering AC1 / blood sugar levels), but there is no way in heck I'm going to post on that thread, people are crazy!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 08:25:53 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

GuitarStv

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #426 on: June 13, 2024, 09:27:59 AM »
I like to think of genetics as setting the limits of the peak that your body can achieve, and then personal actions as controlling how much of that genetic limit you're able to take advantage of.

Like you may never have a body builder physique naturally (although I'd also argue that most body builders don't naturally have body builder physiques either  :P  ).  But working out regularly is going to get you stronger and looking better than not working out hard would.  The person with the best genetics in the world who never works out, will be weaker than the average genetics guy who does.

I suspect that the same holds true for diet and weight loss.  You may never achieve runway model/skeletor levels of slenderness, but proper meal planning should be able to keep your weight in a healthy range.  The person with the best genetics in the world who does nothing but eat junk food will need to have a wall cut out of their apartment to be airlifted out, while the average genetics guy who keeps his diet in check will be able to use the door.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 09:29:53 AM by GuitarStv »

RetireOrDieTrying

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #427 on: July 23, 2024, 10:20:25 AM »
...
You have to make whole food options the fastest/easiest/laziest option.
...
In my house, the fridge is perpetually packed with extremely lazy, whole food eating options. I bulk cook meals and pre-portion them, I keep hard boiled eggs, hummus, and veggies at all times, and bananas.

Interesting to read this, as it's exactly what I've done as well. When I open the 'fridge, a wall of fresh fruits and vegetables greets my eye. I also have a bunch of ready-to-eat hard-boiled eggs, steamed broccoli and carrots, fish, chicken breasts cooked en masse in the air fryer ready to heat up, and so forth.

If I'm sitting around in the evening (before my self-imposed 7:30 p.m. cutoff for food intake), I'll grab some fresh berries, a big tomato, or some raw asparagus.

I never really thought about this as hacking the brain shortcut proclivity, but in essense I suppose that's what I've done.

I treat the ultra-processed stuff like an alcoholic treats a drink - not one, not ever, or there won't be just one. I keep NONE of it in my home, so that it's exceedingly inconvenient to obtain on a spur of the moment.

Jade

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #428 on: July 24, 2024, 07:45:27 AM »
I found "french women don't get fat" by Mireille Guiliano very useful in this regard.

Britan

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Re: How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?
« Reply #429 on: July 24, 2024, 09:51:21 AM »
...
You have to make whole food options the fastest/easiest/laziest option.
...
In my house, the fridge is perpetually packed with extremely lazy, whole food eating options. I bulk cook meals and pre-portion them, I keep hard boiled eggs, hummus, and veggies at all times, and bananas.

Interesting to read this, as it's exactly what I've done as well. When I open the 'fridge, a wall of fresh fruits and vegetables greets my eye. I also have a bunch of ready-to-eat hard-boiled eggs, steamed broccoli and carrots, fish, chicken breasts cooked en masse in the air fryer ready to heat up, and so forth.

If I'm sitting around in the evening (before my self-imposed 7:30 p.m. cutoff for food intake), I'll grab some fresh berries, a big tomato, or some raw asparagus.

I never really thought about this as hacking the brain shortcut proclivity, but in essense I suppose that's what I've done.

I treat the ultra-processed stuff like an alcoholic treats a drink - not one, not ever, or there won't be just one. I keep NONE of it in my home, so that it's exceedingly inconvenient to obtain on a spur of the moment.
I have to exercise self restraint at the grocery store, because once it’s in my house, all bets are off.
This is why I NEVER buy goldfish crackers.