How do you lose weight without using up all your willpower?

[Kris]

The day when you get to reward yourself for the hard work you do all the other days.

I know this works wonderfully for some, but I find it kind of a slippery slope if you have any tendency at all towards disordered eating. I already wrestle with thinking about food as a reward, e.g. I've starved all day to "earn" this junk food. Plus on a moderate deficit, it's actually quite easy (for me) to eat back all of your calories on a cheat day. You figure a 500 calorie deficit per day, that's all wiped out by eating a steak and half a pan of brownies for lunch. Yes, I know that's a bit extreme, but I've been known to do it.

Cheat days don’t work for me, either. They just make it harder for me to get back on the wagon the next day. I prefer a diet that is mostly healthy with small treats here and there.

[Omy]

Ditto. A cheat day turns into a cheat week or cheat month if I'm not careful. It's way better for me to give myself a small  treat (like a square of dark chocolate) that fit inside the daily calorie count.

[wenchsenior]

I've never been a cheat day person, because I've never been a diet person.  I use calorie counting to eat appropriate amounts of food for the weight I want to maintain.  I can eat cake any day I want, just not every day I want it.

Same.

[Runrooster]

Ooh I forgot the best willpower-retaining tool:
Cheat day!
That is, the most wonderful day of the week, when you get to drink that beer, eat that cake, repeat, etc. Whatever floats your boat.
The day when you get to reward yourself for the hard work you do all the other days.
Should coincide with the toughest workout of the week though.
Also, it's possible to overdo it and make a slight-calorie-surplus week out of a slight-calorie-deficit one. You don't want to do that obviously, but I can't imagine a multi-month weight loss program without a cheat day every week or two.

I do that, except it's usually a cheat meal rather than a whole day.  It allows for some socializing or rule-breaking or both.  As a Paleo person, a bagel with cream cheese can be a  cheat meal.  or pizza.  Or cake.  preferably not all three.  On a weekend when I have time for two workouts, it can actually be a bigger deficit than other days. 

The best part is during the mid week slump, when i crave junk, i just tell myself to wait a few days.  If I'm on target for 6 days, I find I dont need to overindulge on the 7th.  Cheating every day on something is too much of a slippery slope for me. 

[gooki]

The day when you get to reward yourself for the hard work you do all the other days.
Should coincide with the toughest workout of the week though.

I find this works for me.

And why it works is because the days I do my toughest workout, I'm too zapped to eat all the things.

[mjdh1957]

I don't get the 'cheat' day idea either.

It's like 'spend 5 hours on a treadmill and you can have a piece of cake', but I'd rather not spend the time on the treadmill nor have the unhealthy sugary cake.

I'm currently losing weight and the best way for me is to avoid junk completely. Clear everything out of the house and don't spend time in the supermarket near the cakes and sweet stuff. Eat more fruit and vegetables, only whole grains, pulses, but absolutely no processed food and no high-fat or high-sugar foods.

There are plenty of ideas for healthier treats if you do need to have an indulgence, for example this one: https://www.yayforfood.com/recipes/date-banana-nut-bread/

[jnw]

We started eating a low carb diet here because my diabetes got out of hand.  Without trying, with no effort at all, my guy lost 60 lbs over a couple years.  From 215 lbs down to 155; size 36 down size 30 waist.  He's maintained it effortlessly as a side effect of dietary change.  He's 52.  The only exercise he gets is from his work and maintaining things around the house / yard.

[GreenSheep]

Some thoughts that came to mind while reading this thread:

1. Psychologist Doug Lisle literally has a lecture called "How to Lose Weight without Losing Your Mind" on YouTube.
2. Jeltema, et al. published an article in Food Science & Nutrition in 2015 called "Model for understanding consumer textural food choice," and although I can't figure out how to attach it here, you might be able to find it online. But the basic idea is that most people fall into one of four categories when it comes to food texture: crunchers, smooshers, chewers, and suckers. Crunchers like things like chips, cereal when the milk has JUST been poured, or raw vegetables. Smooshers like creamy things like pudding, oatmeal, cereal that's had time to soak in milk, or ripe bananas. Chewers like chewy cookies, dried fruits, or ice cream with brownie bits in it. Suckers like hard candies, mints, etc. Of course no one individual ONLY likes one category of food, but if you can figure out which of these gives you that satisfied feeling, then you can start substituting something healthy for something unhealthy, but with the same texture.
3. If it's in your house, it's in your mouth. There are literally locking boxes for food if you live with someone who insists on having foods in the house that tempt you. Otherwise, get it out, unless you are truly a moderator (see #6).
4. Chef AJ's talk on calorie density (with real life examples of foods) is really helpful. YouTube.
5. Take some kind of healthy food with you everywhere you go, all the time. A piece of fruit, a bag of carrots, whatever you like that's easily portable. It will save you when you find yourself out longer than expected, hungry sooner than expected, confronted with unhealthy options, etc.
6. Figure out whether you're a moderator or an abstainer. Some people are better off just NEVER having, for example, chocolate or peanut butter or chips, ever again. Some people do better when they can have a small bite of something and feel satisfied but not feel like they need to eat the entire package.
7. Salt and sugar make things taste better than they naturally would, and they trick your body into eating past the point of natural satiety. So avoid them whenever possible, with the exception being maybe you need a little salt or sugar in order to get yourself to eat something healthy. For example, if you'll eat a mountain of kale, but only if it has a little soy sauce on it, then go for it! If you need a teaspoon of sugar on your bowl of oatmeal and fruit, fine.
8. Calorie counts on all those food labels, apps, etc. can be off by as much as 20% either way, so you're better off skipping the calorie counting and just eating on the lower end of the calorie density chart. Bonus: no need to keep track of anything other than the general types of foods you're eating.
9. Restaurant foods have tons of hidden calories and use all the tricks (salt, sugar, MSG, etc.) to get you to eat more, so avoid restaurants whenever possible.
10. Skip the oil when cooking and learn to water-sauté. You won't miss the taste of the oil, your food won't stick, and you'll drop a few hundred calories a day without missing them.
11. Think of this as a lifestyle change, not a diet. Find the things that are sustainable for you and make them habits. If you just do this for a while and then go back to your old way of eating, the weight will come right back.

[EchoStache]

I'll share some thoughts about weight loss....just some general ideas that might be a little different from the norm.

First of all, I think being super strict on calories is a tough road to follow.....its going to SLOW the metabolism..then, when we go off track, AT ALL, the body will try its best to store any and all excess calories as fat.

As a general rule, doing things to speed up the metabolism may be helpful.  Such as resistance training.  And not 3 lb pink dumbbells balancing on one leg on a Bosu ball.  Real resistance training.  Compound lifts.  barbell squats, barbell bench press, barbell overhead press, rows of any kind.  All with sets of 8 reps or so. 

Avoid long duration steady state cardio...again...this tends to slow the metabolism as your body works hard to be extremely efficient with calories.  Instead, do high intensity interval training for 15 minutes on non resistance training days.  Resistance training is going to increase metabolism and burn calories.  HIIT increases metabolism like crazy and it is a much shorter time commitment than LISS(low intensity steady state).

So to summarize the exercise portion:
Resistance training, which speeds up metabolism.  Adding muscle mass also increases the amount of calories it takes to sustain a given body weight.  So it won't be as critical to eat super low calories as your body will require more.

HIIT speeds up metabolism...making your body less efficient.  I suggest an exercise in which you can "sprint" for 20 seconds and rest for 1:40.  Repeat every two minutes for 7 rounds.  Done in 15 minutes.  For the "sprint" you can *actually* sprint if your body can safely tolerate it, or sprint on a Schwinne Airdyne(also 20 seconds), or a rowing machine(30 seconds since you can't truly sprint on a rower).

For food, if you don't want to strictly track, a nearly foolproof guideline is to eat only single ingredient foods, and no sugary, high calorie  drinks.  It is A LOT harder to over eat this way and will almost guarantee weight loss in most people.  VERY hard to eat 1,000 calories of grilled chicken veggies, and rice or potato, oatmeal, etc.

[Runrooster]

2. Jeltema, et al. published an article in Food Science & Nutrition in 2015 called "Model for understanding consumer textural food choice," and although I can't figure out how to attach it here, you might be able to find it online. But the basic idea is that most people fall into one of four categories when it comes to food texture: crunchers, smooshers, chewers, and suckers. Crunchers like things like chips, cereal when the milk has JUST been poured, or raw vegetables. Smooshers like creamy things like pudding, oatmeal, cereal that's had time to soak in milk, or ripe bananas. Chewers like chewy cookies, dried fruits, or ice cream with brownie bits in it. Suckers like hard candies, mints, etc. Of course no one individual ONLY likes one category of food, but if you can figure out which of these gives you that satisfied feeling, then you can start substituting something healthy for something unhealthy, but with the same texture.

6. Figure out whether you're a moderator or an abstainer. Some people are better off just NEVER having, for example, chocolate or peanut butter or chips, ever again. Some people do better when they can have a small bite of something and feel satisfied but not feel like they need to eat the entire package.

I have no idea if I'm a cruncher or a smoosher.  I like raw veg, but in moderation. I eat a lot of soft fruit - bananas, mangos. Is pizza crunchy?  Ramen noodles are smooshy?  I just don't think satisfaction comes from texture by itself.

I also have no idea whether I'm a moderator or an abstainer.  I have a habit of eating an entire bag of chips over 2-3 days, but most other things I can portion out.  It's not a small bite of cake, though, it's a piece. I have counted that I'll make 6 servings out of a pint of ice cream.

I also tried the calorie density thing, and it made me crazy. I spent a summer eating ever-more dilute oatmeal - first milk, then water, then peaches... I got to where I hated peaches for years.  Same with the soup concept - it would fill me up, but it was temporary.  I'd get ravenous later.

I was on the no-fat bandwagon in the 90's, and I'll never go back to water-saute for cooking.  Things steam, or more likely boil, instead of cooking at the high temp of oil.  Maybe if you have one of those super-non-stick copper pans they advertise on TV, but no water please.  And how do you make an omelet in a water bath?  Could not pay me.

[GreenSheep]

2. Jeltema, et al. published an article in Food Science & Nutrition in 2015 called "Model for understanding consumer textural food choice," and although I can't figure out how to attach it here, you might be able to find it online. But the basic idea is that most people fall into one of four categories when it comes to food texture: crunchers, smooshers, chewers, and suckers. Crunchers like things like chips, cereal when the milk has JUST been poured, or raw vegetables. Smooshers like creamy things like pudding, oatmeal, cereal that's had time to soak in milk, or ripe bananas. Chewers like chewy cookies, dried fruits, or ice cream with brownie bits in it. Suckers like hard candies, mints, etc. Of course no one individual ONLY likes one category of food, but if you can figure out which of these gives you that satisfied feeling, then you can start substituting something healthy for something unhealthy, but with the same texture.

6. Figure out whether you're a moderator or an abstainer. Some people are better off just NEVER having, for example, chocolate or peanut butter or chips, ever again. Some people do better when they can have a small bite of something and feel satisfied but not feel like they need to eat the entire package.

I have no idea if I'm a cruncher or a smoosher.  I like raw veg, but in moderation. I eat a lot of soft fruit - bananas, mangos. Is pizza crunchy?  Ramen noodles are smooshy?  I just don't think satisfaction comes from texture by itself.

I also have no idea whether I'm a moderator or an abstainer.  I have a habit of eating an entire bag of chips over 2-3 days, but most other things I can portion out.  It's not a small bite of cake, though, it's a piece. I have counted that I'll make 6 servings out of a pint of ice cream.

I also tried the calorie density thing, and it made me crazy. I spent a summer eating ever-more dilute oatmeal - first milk, then water, then peaches... I got to where I hated peaches for years.  Same with the soup concept - it would fill me up, but it was temporary.  I'd get ravenous later.

I was on the no-fat bandwagon in the 90's, and I'll never go back to water-saute for cooking.  Things steam, or more likely boil, instead of cooking at the high temp of oil.  Maybe if you have one of those super-non-stick copper pans they advertise on TV, but no water please.  And how do you make an omelet in a water bath?  Could not pay me.

Wow, this comes across as very angry...

Of course texture isn't the only thing necessary for satisfaction, but it is one component of it. And of course not all foods will fit neatly into one of the categories.

Sounds like too much water and non-starchy vegetables made you feel hungry too soon after eating? More fiber might make a difference.

It might be helpful to look up videos on how to water-sauté, because if you're ending up with things that are steamed or boiled, you're doing it wrong. It's not supposed to be a "water bath." And it's mostly for vegetables, not for omelets.

This reads like you have a lot of frustration related to things you tried that didn't work. The things I've written about have worked for numerous people, but there is no guarantee that something will work for everyone. I hope you have found things that do work for you, and maybe you would be willing to share them here rather than just shooting down someone else's thoughts.

Edit: I see that you already did contribute your thoughts in reply #41. Thanks for your positive input. Maybe it will help someone.

[Zamboni]

Low carb / keto seems to work the best for me. My downfall is sweets and carbs, which I often ate to the detriment of getting enough protein. As long as I am avoiding the carbs, then I seem to get plenty of protein, and then I just gradually lose or maintain my weight without a problem without being uncomfortably hungry or feeling much sacrifice.

It's all very ironic, because in the 80's I read "Eat to Win" that was all about carbs are good, fat is bad. Pasta without sauce, baked potatoes without butter, skinless chicken. I was hard core. It was all so peak 80's. That book said the avocado was super evil . . . but now I eat avocados pretty regularly and everything seems to be fine. 

Also it helps me to really not try to skimp on deliciousness. It's hard to feel like I'm sacrificing when I'm eating bacon wrapped scallops or salmon and little mozzerella pearls with balsamic vinegar and olive oil and all things fancy and flavorful. I love salads with crumbled cheeses and having an egg for breakfast. The fat keeps me feeling full, which keeps me from binging on sweets. There are even keto alternatives to things like toaster waffles which are made from almond flour and they taste pretty good with some berries.

Cheat day throws me out of ketosis, and then I get a headache the next day when I stop eating carbs again, so I try to avoid doing that very often. The things I miss the most are 1. Indian food like chana masala with jasmine rice and naan and 2. mac and cheese: specifically chic-fil-a mac and cheese. Hilariously the day of the week I sometimes feel like cheating is often Sunday, when Chic-fil-a is closed. It's a message from God I guess . . . I should get the band back together.

[jim555]

Calorie counting worked for me.  Lost 30 lbs. after I retired.  Still count but try to keep under 2,100 which is the normal burn rate.

[jnw]

Low carb / keto seems to work the best for me.
..
It's all very ironic, because in the 80's I read "Eat to Win" that was all about carbs are good, fat is bad. Pasta without sauce, baked potatoes without butter, skinless chicken. I was hard core. It was all so peak 80's. That book said the avocado was super evil . . . but now I eat avocados pretty regularly and everything seems to be fine. 

wow so very interesting i read “eat to win” as well.  Kreb’s cycle & complex carbs lol.  thats when i started gaining weight ruining a 12 month weight loss of 70 lbs which i had done by skipping breakfast and eating light lunch.. this was before i knew about a”intermittent fasting”.

I was so brainwashed by that book I used it to write an essay in college; I even used it for a speech I wrote for Public Speaking class I took in college.

[Minotaur]

Some things to think about:
If you feel hungry have a drink of water. Hungry and thirsty feel the same so people often eat when they should drink.
The Slow Carb diet and the fasting diet really worked for me. Wish I could do them again however issues.
The big take away from the Slow Carb is that not all calories are equal and getting carbs out of your life will have a big effect.
Cheat days work because they stop your body from setting into a pattern. It also means if you really miss something you can still have it. Just one day a week.
Finally if you eat something that you should not have done. Stop move on and do not class the whole day as failed and eat your own body weight in rubbish.

Also I have never had the must not have it in my house before however now it has become an issue and not sure what to do about it.

[jeninco]

Wow, a ton of (as usual, for this kind of topic) conflicting advice here. Much of which is good! The conflicting doesn't make it not good, it means that different tactics work for different people!

My take:
The Dean Ornish-type very low fat plan works for some people who can stick to it.
It's looking like lo-carb diets work for people who can stick to them (search on this topic on the New York Times site, for some recent-ish summaries) They may be easier to stick to.
Prepared food is engineered to keep you eating it past the point of satiation.
Do as much as you possibly can so that you don't have to use "willpower" to make decisions in the moment.
Exercise is good. Walking is really good -- get your body moving, get outside, probably don't make yourself hungry.
Lifting is also really good for ramping up your metabolism, as well as just helping you feel good in your body. Get instruction if necessary!

Me, I make chopped salads twice a week or so and then eat large bowls of that with some whole-grain toast and cheese for satiation)  for lunch almost every day. I rarely eat breakfast, because I stopped being hungry in the morning in my late 40s, so I drink coffee (sometimes with milk) and water until about 10 or 11. I work at home, so I can eat when I'm hungry.

I make dinner for the whole family, so that's generally a veg-heavy healthy meal. I have a notebook of recipes that we like, so we choose 7 dinners on Friday evening, I go through the fridge and cupboards and write a list that includes all needed components, then shop early Saturday morning. Dinners go on a list on the fridge, with notes right there in case I needed to be reminded to use something, ie "Caldo Tlalpeñ0 (cilantro)" so I don't forget components.

In short, you have to see what keeps you feeling reasonably satisfied (if you're spending the afternoon fighting off thoughts of snacks, it's tough to concentrate on what you're doing), then figure out how to make it easy for you to do what you've decided. Example: if you're going out with a group, look at the menu ahead of time and pre-make your decision: then you don't have to think about it in the moment!

And, although I do loads of other exercise in a typical week, I try to get out and at least walk 5 miles or so per day, (or equivalent.)

[Minotaur]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

[jeninco]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

Right, but like many, many diet- and lifestyle-related infos, YMMV. OTOH, try out whatever makes sense to you and see how it goes!

[Minotaur]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

Right, but like many, many diet- and lifestyle-related infos, YMMV. OTOH, try out whatever makes sense to you and see how it goes!

Just because it works for one person does not mean it will work for everyone you are so right. My biggest problem with the Slow Carb was breakfast protein as I have to force myself to eat in the morning and all of the "it the most important meal of the day" stuff. Then research comes out saying actually some people do not need breakfast.

[GreenSheep]

"it the most important meal of the day" stuff. Then research comes out saying actually some people do not need breakfast.

That apparently was purely marketing by some cereal company decades ago. I don't think anyone would say it's wise to stuff yourself with food before you feel hungry, but there is some research showing that calories eaten earlier in the day are processed by the body more efficiently than late-night calorie intake. To me, that suggests that grinding through a few hours of hunger just to start your eating later in the day doesn't pay off. I assume that has a lot to do with the fact that we're active during the day (most of us, anyway) and sleeping at night, so it's better to take in more calories earlier in the day and then burn them as the day goes on.

As far as intermittent fasting goes, Valter Longo has said that just a 12-hour overnight fast (every night) is optimal, meaning there's no need to cram all of your food into a 4-hour window or even an 8-hour window. I'm not sure how he feels about multiple-day medically-supervised fasts, but it seems like those are in a category on their own. As far as daily fasting goes, I've heard a lot of talk about the idea that it's not necessarily that there's some magic to the period of time during which you eat -- just that limiting yourself to 12 hours or whatever stops the mindless late-night snacking. I've also heard people refer to intermittent fasting as "intermittent bingeing," implying that it's not ideal for everyone and probably depends on one's relationship with food, kind of like the way cheat days work for some but not others.

All that said... I tend to eat an early dinner, brush my teeth, and forget about food till morning, when I wake up hungry and enjoy my breakfast right away. I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone, but I think there are quite a few people who don't like breakfast simply because they're still full from a late dinner or snacking the night before. Part of me wants to say who cares, 24 hours is 24 hours, just have breakfast later if you're snacking at 11pm... but as much as we've tried to fight it, humans function on a circadian rhythm, and the body is just better at doing certain things at certain times, with some variation among people who are early birds versus night owls, etc.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

These are the things that work for me, and they have the benefit of weight loss since I do need to lose weight.  They don't involve counting calories at all, because for me it's not as simple as calories in calories out.  My metabolism is shot, and I gain weight when I cut calories.  Also, with a history of eating disorders, calorie counting gets dangerous quickly.  Sometimes I veer off plan, but I always know what to do to get things back in order.  As I've lost some weight I find that my choice of portion size decreases because my appetite decreases, which gives me hope that my body is more intuitively guiding my food intake.

1) I eat two meals per day, around 10 a.m. and 5 p.m.  If something is going to push the second meal later, I eat a small snack midafternoon, and sometimes on the weekends I eat breakfast earlier and plan a heavier midday snack, to fit my eating schedule in with whatever we might be doing.  I choose unprocessed and minimally processed foods and my meals always have vegetables, fat, and protein, along with moderate carbs.  I can lose weight faster with fewer carbs, but I don't have the willpower for it, and I get headaches.
2)  My meal schedule naturally incorporates 16:8 intermittent fasting, although sometimes it's more like 15:9 or 14:10.  I don't sweat it if it isn't a perfect 8 hour eating window -- I don't think it's all that necessary.  It seems to me that I grew up not eating between dinner and breakfast, which was naturally about 12 hours, and everyone I knew ate the same way.
3)  I don't drink calories. Not even smoothies, because blending fruits destroys some of the benefits of fruit having fiber, especially the benefit of slowing down how much fruit you might eat in one sitting.
4)  For the most part, I don't eat sugar.  I'm okay with using honey in bread baking, and I plan to eat a delicious homemade treat on Saturday or Sunday.  If I want to lose weight faster I don't eat the weekly treat (switch it to monthly), but I find it makes it easier to say no to unplanned sweets if I know I can have something on the weekend -- a doughnut offered at a meeting on Thursday is less appealing if I know I'm planning to make homemade ice cream on Saturday.  Also, it makes socializing just a little easier -- I'll skip the homemade treat if I know we're going to a birthday party.
5)  If I want fruit I eat it at the end of a meal.
6)  I don't snack unless it's planned because of a later than usual second meal.  A typical snack is an apple and cheese.
7)  I don't count calories, period.  I eat until I feel full -- full enough to make it to my next meal without snacking.
8)  I try to walk daily, weather and schedule permitting.

There was a lot of trial and error to get to a place where I figured out the best way for me to eat, and I had to unlearn a lot of the maxims I'd heard all my life.  For instance, breakfast can be a bad meal for me, because I like sweet breakfasts and because most fast, easy breakfasts are full of sugar, natural or not.  Pushing my first meal to 10 a.m. set me on the path to making that first meal heartier, more brunch-like fare.  I'll make sweet potato bowls with cabbage and sausage, or eggs served with a cooked grain, zucchini, and avocado.  I bake one loaf of whole wheat bread per week (for the two of us who eat wheat) and we sometimes have eggs and toast with a side vegetable.  Or I make an egg casserole with shredded or cubed potatoes and plenty of vegetables, along with cheese.  This has broken my habit of either eating a sweet breakfast, or just not eating enough at breakfast, which is common for me if I try to eat too early.

The second meal of the day is a more common looking dinner/supper meal.

Also, I throw some of this out the window at certain times of the year.  From Christmas through Epiphany I eat whatever sweets and treats I want and I drink eggnog with rum, truly enjoying the season as a time of feasting.  Same with Easter week (Easter Sunday through the following Easter).  If we have house guests I cook in a way that's more normal for them, offering three meals per day along with snacks and treats.

[jim555]

I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

[Minotaur]

I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

Actual that is a bit of a myth. If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight. Burning something does not say anything about how the human body will process it.
Then you have fasting and keto which are changing the way your body works.

[Ecky]

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but to my understanding, insulin is both produced as a response to eating carbohydrates (particularly simpler ones), and triggers the release of grehlin, a hormone responsible for feeling hungry. So it's cyclical. We eat carbs, our body creates insulin, so we eat more carbs, which perpetuates the hunger cycle.

This is vastly oversimplified, but the TL;DR is that the lower you can keep your insulin levels, the less you'll be torturing yourself by cutting calories.

[GreenSheep]

If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight.

But... sugar IS a carbohydrate...???

[chemistk]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

Right, but like many, many diet- and lifestyle-related infos, YMMV. OTOH, try out whatever makes sense to you and see how it goes!

Signal boosting this.

There is no one approach to health and wellness that will work for everyone. Full stop.

And no individually developed health and wellness plan will work as intended if you (the person executing the plan on yourself, and yourself alone) cannot accept that your body will never look like the "ideal" body.

I've watched so many people in my life struggle with image. Some have dieted with great success. Others have had surgery that worked exactly as intended. Others have had surgery that did nothing but cause pain and anguish. I've seen family members use fasts and juice cleanses to yo-yo back and forth. I have family who hasn't worked out in 5 years whose weight doesn't fluctuate, and others who can work out every day and still gain weight. For some, cardio works. Others it's walking. And for others, it's strength training.

My wife has tried cleanses, WW, low-calorie diets, NOOM, high protein diets, walking, running, and the only thing that actually works for her is strength training. She lifts at the gym for 90 minutes a day and is easily stronger than I am.

For me, a dude, walking 10k steps a day keeps me 'in shape' better than any other approach, especially weightlifting.

A family friend lost over 100 lbs with gastric bypass, after a lap band failed miserably (and nearly killed her). She's been able to keep the weight off.

My wife's sister runs a lot, which seems to work better than other approaches.

Other family primarily focuses on food with little exercise and they do very well on that.

We have, as a culture, been groomed to believe that the "next great diet" is just one trick, or superfood, or shortcut away. Low carb, low fat, keto, IMF, high fat, vegan, juicing, all meat, etc. etc. are all approaches that have saturated our culture with unsurprisingly poor societal success. But they've all also had incredibly high levels of individualized success.

The thing that always, always will sink a health and wellness approach is the belief that you have to be someone else. That you have to look and act and feel like some "other". That if you can just lose the weight, or define the abs, or make your teeth whiter, that you'll finally feel comfortable in your own skin.

You are you, you are not like your spouse or your sister or your friend or mother or coworker or a stranger on a screen. You are you and figuring out how to accept yourself, set reasonable goals, and work on those goals independently of external motivation is the only surefire way to find success in a health and wellness plan.

There is no "diet". It's just you, your body, and the tools you have available to be happy and healthy in a way that only applies to you.

[Minotaur]

If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight.

But... sugar IS a carbohydrate...???

This is my guess, sugar is the fuel your body wants so it just uses it. Other carbs have to be processed and as part of that process the body turns the extra into fat. It could also be the difference between simple (Sugar) and complex carbs like flour.

[Minotaur]

There is no "diet". It's just you, your body, and the tools you have available to be happy and healthy in a way that only applies to you.

I think the problem is we need another word. Diet means what you eat and not a plan to drink cabbage soup for 7 to 14 days. I am looking for a healthy diet and not a meal guide to lose weight.
I do think the solution might be something already said and that is simply only buy things that are 100% one ingredient.
I do recommend the Hairy Dieters cook books. You will be able to get the recipes not sure about the books outside of the UK. You have to be careful as they are TV chefs so you want the Hairy Dieter books and not the Hairy Bikers. My favourite section of the first book is the fakeaway chapter and I cook those recipes a lot. They seem to work in Slow Cookers too. What I do is make 8 portions at the weekend and I use 5 over the following weeks on one day so the plan is every Saturday I cook 8 portions and then freeze 5 for the next 5 weeks. 6 portions would make more sense for people I need the extra to for something else.
The sweet and sour chicken and Chicken Korma are my favourites I think. Although the lamb spinach curry is very nice.
The problem I have at the moment is somehow I have ended up with 5 cheat days and seemingly no way not to have them. Plus depression which makes this even more fun to do.

[chemistk]

There is no "diet". It's just you, your body, and the tools you have available to be happy and healthy in a way that only applies to you.

I think the problem is we need another word. Diet means what you eat and not a plan to drink cabbage soup for 7 to 14 days. I am looking for a healthy diet and not a meal guide to lose weight.
I do think the solution might be something already said and that is simply only buy things that are 100% one ingredient.
I do recommend the Hairy Dieters cook books. You will be able to get the recipes not sure about the books outside of the UK. You have to be careful as they are TV chefs so you want the Hairy Dieter books and not the Hairy Bikers. My favourite section of the first book is the fakeaway chapter and I cook those recipes a lot. They seem to work in Slow Cookers too. What I do is make 8 portions at the weekend and I use 5 over the following weeks on one day so the plan is every Saturday I cook 8 portions and then freeze 5 for the next 5 weeks. 6 portions would make more sense for people I need the extra to for something else.
The sweet and sour chicken and Chicken Korma are my favourites I think. Although the lamb spinach curry is very nice.
The problem I have at the moment is somehow I have ended up with 5 cheat days and seemingly no way not to have them. Plus depression which makes this even more fun to do.

I largely agree, especially on your first point. We have come to culturally define the word "diet" as a 'thing you do to lose weight/try to make your body look like some set ideal' and not as a mundane description of the food and beverages you consume day-to-day. Or in other words, we naturally assume "diet" is a how when it's actually a what.

But you also bring up some important pieces of food for thought - namely, you that you've found a given approach to cooking and eating that works for you but based just on the way you describe it here, you're not wholly convinced that it's helping you to achieve what you want it to help you achieve.

What's the importance of a "cheat day" to you? Dwayne the Rock Johnson's cheat days are entirely different from Gwyneth Paltrow's - each of them is doing something entirely different with their bodies to achieve some end.

I am largely of the opinion that the best "diet" (the what) does not come out of a cookbook. It comes over the course of time through the exploration of all different categories of food, how and when to eat that food, how much to eat, and the net result that it yields on your body and overall health and wellbeing in conjunction with the same approach to exercise and mental health.

When you wake up one day and realize that you haven't had to think about your relationship with food every waking second, feeling good, and living in a state of health that is appropriate for your biology, that's when you've found your diet.

If you want to follow a cookbook that's filled with good food and are satisfied because of that, great!

If you want to eat vegan and are working with a doctor to help make sure you're getting adequate amounts of your macros, awesome!

If you eat slimfast shakes because you just genuinely like the, taste, good on you (but diversify, maybe...).

And most importantly, apart from trained medical professionals who aren't also judging the state of your health on a horribly antiquated way of describing what a person's body should look like, nobody else has any right to give you shit about what when where or how much it is that you're eating so long as it's not putting your health (or theirs, if you are prone to kitchen fires) in real danger.

And most importantly, you shouldn't feel as though you need to do that to yourself if nobody else is doing it.

[Malossi792]

If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight.

But... sugar IS a carbohydrate...???

Sshhh. You're trying to apply reason to someone who has just tried to argue with math.

/S

[Dee_the_third]

@chemistk great points, thanks for the weigh in. It reminds me that even at different stages in life, the process is going to look different. What worked for me in the early 20s - rely on a fast metabolism and 3-4 miles a day of walking around to keep me in homeostasis - isn't really working now some odd-10 years later.

FWIW, the process I've settled on for now is just adding a tremendous pile of green veggies (or plain oatmeal) to all of my food. It seems to be working, I carefully tracked the calorie content for a few days and I've settled at a moderate deficit with very little mental effort. Plus, I've been walking to work - lower mechanical advantage than the bike. Time will tell.

[Minotaur]

If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight.

But... sugar IS a carbohydrate...???

Sshhh. You're trying to apply reason to someone who has just tried to argue with math.

/S

Actually we are arguing Chemistry and Biology.

Chemistry
The large calorie, food calorie, or kilogram calorie was originally defined as the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius (or one kelvin).

Biology
The human body breaks things down using acid.
There are 2,458 calories in a 32oz(907g) steak. However the body can only absorb around 25 grams of protein in one sitting so most of the 227g of protein in that steak are not going to be used by the body at all. This is why the Atkins and keto diets work.

[Sailor Sam]

Oh my god, could we just fucking not? This isn’t reddit. Argh!

[investnoob]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

For a while I have been thinking about somehow skipping breakfast. I am not really hungry early in the morning. But breakfast has become part of the pre-work routine. If I don't have breakfast, I tend to be starving right around 10 or so and then eat crap. So I need to figure out how I can maybe merge lunch and breakfast at around 10.

Or maybe I have a decent snack at 10 and then my lunch at noon hour. Its that 10 is sometimes inconvenient when working.

[GreenSheep]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

For a while I have been thinking about somehow skipping breakfast. I am not really hungry early in the morning. But breakfast has become part of the pre-work routine. If I don't have breakfast, I tend to be starving right around 10 or so and then eat crap. So I need to figure out how I can maybe merge lunch and breakfast at around 10.

Or maybe I have a decent snack at 10 and then my lunch at noon hour. Its that 10 is sometimes inconvenient when working.

I don't know if your way of eating includes smoothies or if you would feel full enough after a smoothie to make it to lunch, but I used to have smoothies at work sometimes when it was just too busy to bother with chewing. There are lots of brands of containers now that keep things cold for multiple hours, so you could make your smoothie in the morning, take it to work, and then sip on it when you start feeling hungry. Maybe it would be enough to keep you from eating junk but also not crawl into lunchtime feeling awful?

If you throw in a lot of greens, then you're also drinking your vegetables! (Cauliflower and zucchini are also good for adding creaminess without a ton of calories, plus obviously... vegetables. I've learned to boil the cauliflower for 3-4 minutes, then cool and freeze, because raw cauliflower in a smoothie tastes awful to me.)

Or, if you want it to be heavy enough to be more like a full meal, then this is one of my favorites. Never in a million years would I have guessed there's cauliflower and black beans in here.
https://www.heynutritionlady.com/chocolate-black-bean-brownie-smoothie/#recipe

[Minotaur]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

For a while I have been thinking about somehow skipping breakfast. I am not really hungry early in the morning. But breakfast has become part of the pre-work routine. If I don't have breakfast, I tend to be starving right around 10 or so and then eat crap. So I need to figure out how I can maybe merge lunch and breakfast at around 10.

Or maybe I have a decent snack at 10 and then my lunch at noon hour. Its that 10 is sometimes inconvenient when working.

You might want to drink water instead and see how you feel first. As I said hunger and thirst often get confused.

[Runrooster]

Oh my god, could we just fucking not? This isn’t reddit. Argh!

Are you sure this isn't reddit?

[iris lily]

How much weight do you have to lose? If it’s a lot, it falls off faster than if you only have 5–10 pounds.

Those last 5–10 pounds are miserable to lose.

 

[Malossi792]

If you eat the same calories of protein you would lose weight. Of sugar your weight would stay the same. Of Carbs you would gain weight.

But... sugar IS a carbohydrate...???

Sshhh. You're trying to apply reason to someone who has just tried to argue with math.

/S

Actually we are arguing Chemistry and Biology.

Chemistry
The large calorie, food calorie, or kilogram calorie was originally defined as the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius (or one kelvin).

Biology
The human body breaks things down using acid.
There are 2,458 calories in a 32oz(907g) steak. However the body can only absorb around 25 grams of protein in one sitting so most of the 227g of protein in that steak are not going to be used by the body at all. This is why the Atkins and keto diets work.

OK I'll bite.
The biological part is just ridiculous.
So you think you can eat all you want because your body will just refuse to process protein after an arbitrary amount is reached?
I'm sorry but lmao here.
It does happen to various nutrients during some illnesses, and the symptom you're looking for is diarrhea.

Also the human body breaks down protein using enzymes.
What actually happens is the protein that's digested but not needed right then to *build* something, gets transformed into *grasp* carbohydrates. That's right, your body needs carbs and if you won't eat it it'll make it. Then I suppose you know what happens with excess carbs if they're not burned soon...

Keto diets work because they reduce the overall calorie intake, just like all the diets out there that actually work.

[Sailor Sam]

Oh my god, could we just fucking not? This isn’t reddit. Argh!

Are you sure this isn't reddit?

I'm thinking the more pointed question should be "do I think there are reddit bros here?" The answer to that is: yes. Totally. So many, right here in this location.

And for fuck sake, the human body doesn't convert anything into carbs. There are no free floating molecules of carb floating around, bumping into each other hand having a good time. The body has glucose, which is a sugar, which is a carb. Glucose==sugar==carbohydrate.  If the body finds itself short of glucose, it will turn non-carbohydrate metabolites into glucose via glyconegenesis inside the Krebs cycle.

It we're going to be pedantic, at least try to be specific.

ETA: Okay, I admit that I myself might also be a reddit bro. But at least I'm a well informed one. ;)

[jeninco]

There is actual some research now that some people just do not need to do breakfast at all. A lot of special forces types actual eat only dinner so a sort of permanent fast.

For a while I have been thinking about somehow skipping breakfast. I am not really hungry early in the morning. But breakfast has become part of the pre-work routine. If I don't have breakfast, I tend to be starving right around 10 or so and then eat crap. So I need to figure out how I can maybe merge lunch and breakfast at around 10.

Or maybe I have a decent snack at 10 and then my lunch at noon hour. Its that 10 is sometimes inconvenient when working.

I make parfaits for situations like this: in a jar (choose the right size for you) put yogurt and some kind of cut up fruit. Return to the fridge. The next morning, just before leaving, top with ... well, I use homemade granola, because I can control the amount of sugar in it.  Other things (like overnight soaked oats, to which you can also add cut-up fruit) work the same way. Open jar at work when hungry, consume.  Yogurt + oats + some nuts + fruit.

And +1000 for adding copious veggies (or fruit, in the case of breakfast) to every meal. If I try to get 10 servings of fruit/veg per day, that squeezes out a lot of less healthy food.

[Blissful Biker]

As a pudgy endurance athlete for many years I am proof of the old adage "you can't outrun your fork".  I ate pretty clean but felt entitled to any portion size or treats because of the long hours I spent (and loved) training.

Recognizing that my performance would improve if I was leaner I tried calorie counting but it took a lot of mental bandwidth and caused me low level anxiety when I was running out of calories and feared being hungry. 

I had always viewed weight watchers as being for obese old ladies but my sister and an active friend had great results with it so I decided to give it a try.  I slowly lost 20lbs over the course of a year focusing on protein and vegetables but able to eat anything I wanted in moderation.  The long list of zero point foods made the program very simple and alleviated any worry about being hungry.  The cost of about $10/month was money well spent.

I've retained the healthy eating habits I learned through WW and have focused this year on strength using Carolyn Girvan's EPIC programs on youtube.  She's a machine!

Out of the trails I can now run, bike and ski further, faster and with more joy.  So glad I made the changes.

[Malossi792]

Oh my god, could we just fucking not? This isn’t reddit. Argh!

Are you sure this isn't reddit?

I'm thinking the more pointed question should be "do I think there are reddit bros here?" The answer to that is: yes. Totally. So many, right here in this location.

And for fuck sake, the human body doesn't convert anything into carbs. There are no free floating molecules of carb floating around, bumping into each other hand having a good time. The body has glucose, which is a sugar, which is a carb. Glucose==sugar==carbohydrate.  If the body finds itself short of glucose, it will turn non-carbohydrate metabolites into glucose via glyconegenesis inside the Krebs cycle.

It we're going to be pedantic, at least try to be specific.

ETA: Okay, I admit that I myself might also be a reddit bro. But at least I'm a well informed one. ;)

It's funny how you managed to act like a jerk and over-simplify at least as much as I did all at the same time (though you didn't even quote me, it's clear you targeted me).
Oh and btw it's called the Szentgyörgyi-Krebs cycle, if we're trying to be pedantic.
I was just trying to be helpful to those who would listen... I just can't stand misinformation presented as fact, like that 25 gram protein nonsense, because it could mislead someone who's trying to learn.

[Sailor Sam]

Oh my god, could we just fucking not? This isn’t reddit. Argh!

Are you sure this isn't reddit?

I'm thinking the more pointed question should be "do I think there are reddit bros here?" The answer to that is: yes. Totally. So many, right here in this location.

And for fuck sake, the human body doesn't convert anything into carbs. There are no free floating molecules of carb floating around, bumping into each other hand having a good time. The body has glucose, which is a sugar, which is a carb. Glucose==sugar==carbohydrate.  If the body finds itself short of glucose, it will turn non-carbohydrate metabolites into glucose via glyconegenesis inside the Krebs cycle.

It we're going to be pedantic, at least try to be specific.

ETA: Okay, I admit that I myself might also be a reddit bro. But at least I'm a well informed one. ;)

It's funny how you managed to act like a jerk and over-simplify at least as much as I did all at the same time (though you didn't even quote me, it's clear you targeted me).
Oh and btw it's called the Szentgyörgyi-Krebs cycle, if we're trying to be pedantic.
I was just trying to be helpful to those who would listen... I just can't stand misinformation presented as fact, like that 25 gram protein nonsense, because it could mislead someone who's trying to learn.

bruh!

[iris lily]

As a pudgy endurance athlete for many years I am proof of the old adage "you can't outrun your fork".  I ate pretty clean but felt entitled to any portion size or treats because of the long hours I spent (and loved) training.

Recognizing that my performance would improve if I was leaner I tried calorie counting but it took a lot of mental bandwidth and caused me low level anxiety when I was running out of calories and feared being hungry. 

I had always viewed weight watchers as being for obese old ladies but my sister and an active friend had great results with it so I decided to give it a try.  I slowly lost 20lbs over the course of a year focusing on protein and vegetables but able to eat anything I wanted in moderation.  The long list of zero point foods made the program very simple and alleviated any worry about being hungry.  The cost of about $10/month was money well spent.

I've retained the healthy eating habits I learned through WW and have focused this year on strength using Carolyn Girvan's EPIC programs on youtube.  She's a machine!

Out of the trails I can now run, bike and ski further, faster and with more joy.  So glad I made the changes.

I like Weight Watchers that basically focuses on portion control and tracking, which is key for me. Yes you can eat anything you like ais long as you account for it.

I’m less enchanted with their  latest program, the one running now, since it seems to me to be a lot of game playing with what “counts “as Weight Watchers’ points and what does not. But I just try to remember to track and measure out  foods and that is OK.

Just today I realized one cup of spaghetti is really a lot! Half a cup is probably enough for me.

[Dee_the_third]

Re: reddit (source: xkcd. Randall precisely on the nose, as usual)

[Minotaur]

I don't know if your way of eating includes smoothies...

To do the Slow Carb right I ended up having to have protein smoothies. There were accidents... I do not want to take about it.

[Minotaur]

OK I'll bite.
The biological part is just ridiculous.
So you think you can eat all you want because your body will just refuse to process protein after an arbitrary amount is reached?
I'm sorry but lmao here.
It does happen to various nutrients during some illnesses, and the symptom you're looking for is diarrhea.

Check out the Carnivore diet, that is basically the diet plan and it works.
My point was that not all calories are created equal which is a scientific fact.

Also the human body breaks down protein using enzymes.
What actually happens is the protein that's digested but not needed right then to *build* something, gets transformed into *grasp* carbohydrates. That's right, your body needs carbs and if you won't eat it it'll make it. Then I suppose you know what happens with excess carbs if they're not burned soon...

Except the body will only process so much protein an hour and it dumps the rest.
Look at the Keto diet, your body does not need carbs. Pre-farming getting lots of carbs was really hard work so we managed to exist without large amounts of them for a long time.

Keto diets work because they reduce the overall calorie intake, just like all the diets out there that actually work.

Actually keto does not care how many calories you eat it is about removing glucose from your diet to put you in Ketosis so almost no carbs because they body converts them. One of the properties of protein is that you feel full so people tend not to over eat.

[Malossi792]

Re: reddit (source: xkcd. Randall precisely on the nose, as usual)

You're right, I'm sorry, I'll stop feeding the troll.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

I see all these posts about when you eat, and timing gymnastics, but ultimately it comes down to calories.  It is a pure burn calculation.  Burn more than you eat, you lose weight, pretty simple.

I wish this were true.  If it were true, I wouldn't be overweight and I wouldn't have spend more than a decade of my life cutting calories and increasing activity only to stay overweight.  I especially cut fat calories, because that was the battle cry for losing weight.  And it didn't work and made me less healthy for it.

One reason a calorie isn't just a calories is that the human body doesn't use the carbohydrate fructose for immediate energy.  Fructose is mostly stored as fat.  That Sugar Film is a really great documentary that explores what happens when a person eats a healthy diet that is high in refined carbs without being high in candy or sweets.  I saw the film after I'd already started cutting refined carbs from my diet and losing weight even while eating more calories, and it helped me understand why cutting fructose works for me. For me, carbs are fine in moderation, but they need to be whole/complex.  I'm fine with a piece of fruit, a slice of 100% whole wheat bread, or sweet potatoes.  And that really comes down to eating carbs as they more naturally appear in nature.  The more I cut highly processed foods that are no longer whole, the easier the weight comes off.