Author Topic: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?  (Read 29935 times)

Daleth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2014, 11:56:37 AM »
If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything.  You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right?  If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.

If you feel you can justify being a passive-aggressive cheapskate who makes about 1 in every 4 waiters think he's an a-hole, be my guest. I'm not going to stop you, although if I knew you and saw you pull that, I'd never go to a restaurant with you again. The choice is yours to make, although as you've noticed, your approach is not even remotely admired (to put it nicely) by your fellow Mustachians on this thread.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2014, 12:02:58 PM »
If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything.  You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right?  If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.

If you feel you can justify being a passive-aggressive cheapskate who makes about 1 in every 4 waiters think he's an a-hole, be my guest. I'm not going to stop you, although if I knew you and saw you pull that, I'd never go to a restaurant with you again. The choice is yours to make, although as you've noticed, your approach is not even remotely admired (to put it nicely) by your fellow Mustachians on this thread.

I'm not tipping for poor service either way.  That doesn't make me a cheapskate does it?  You have a problem with my lack of additional communication (which has nothing to do with being a cheapskate). 

According to my fellow mustachians, 19/20 waiters probably think I'm a super generous dude because I tip pretty well when I get good service, which is the vast majority of the time. 

I don't really care what the 1/20 thinks.  He should probably thank me for not complaining to management, but you do have me reconsidering that.  I would assume that complaints reflect poorly on the server but maybe I'm wrong?

Ps. You keep saying I'm passive aggressive.  But frankly the alternative you suggest is simply aggressive.  I imagine that most people don't want to be told outright that they are bad at their job, and would prefer a more subtle hint.  But that's just me as an introvert.  I would be mortified if a client complained to my boss.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:05:33 PM by dragoncar »

netskyblue

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2014, 12:27:37 PM »
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards.  I've only ever had one server who did a bad enough job that I purposely left a BAD tip (and if you leave no tip, chances are the server won't get it, and will just think you're cheap).  That server did about every possible bad thing - took our order, forgot about us for an hour, never put the order in, took our order again, got it WRONG, spilled our beverages on the table and didn't clean it up, and ignored us the rest of the meal.  That's reserved for the you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me bad. 

Even then, I wouldn't speak to a manager about it.  Anybody can have a shit day, and for all I know, her dog just got ran over 5 minutes before her shift and she just found out she has cancer, and who knows what.  But I'm not going to reward her for a job that badly done.  If it's repeated behavior, or something REALLY inexcusable, deliberate, like calls us a bad word, or something, that's when I'd say something to the manager.

CLEARLY with the lack of agreement you're getting here, the general public does not share your "standards of acceptable service" so if you want your waiter to refill your water glass every time it gets to 3/4 full, by all means, say so at the beginning of the meal.  And honestly, if someone had said to me at the beginning of the meal, "I expect x, y, and z from you" maybe I'd have thought they were a nut, but I'd have DONE it. 

If you're in a hurry, ask for the check to be brought to you with the food, so you can pay, and leave when you're ready.  Not knowing you were in a hurry is no excuse for the waitstaff to take forever in getting you your check, but if you want it fast, just say so.  Save yourself some trouble.  Stuff like that, some of it's on you, the customer.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2014, 12:42:23 PM »
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards.  I've only ever had one server who did a bad enough job that I purposely left a BAD tip (and if you leave no tip, chances are the server won't get it, and will just think you're cheap).  That server did about every possible bad thing - took our order, forgot about us for an hour, never put the order in, took our order again, got it WRONG, spilled our beverages on the table and didn't clean it up, and ignored us the rest of the meal.  That's reserved for the you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me bad. 

Even then, I wouldn't speak to a manager about it.  Anybody can have a shit day, and for all I know, her dog just got ran over 5 minutes before her shift and she just found out she has cancer, and who knows what.  But I'm not going to reward her for a job that badly done.  If it's repeated behavior, or something REALLY inexcusable, deliberate, like calls us a bad word, or something, that's when I'd say something to the manager.

CLEARLY with the lack of agreement you're getting here, the general public does not share your "standards of acceptable service" so if you want your waiter to refill your water glass every time it gets to 3/4 full, by all means, say so at the beginning of the meal.  And honestly, if someone had said to me at the beginning of the meal, "I expect x, y, and z from you" maybe I'd have thought they were a nut, but I'd have DONE it. 

If you're in a hurry, ask for the check to be brought to you with the food, so you can pay, and leave when you're ready.  Not knowing you were in a hurry is no excuse for the waitstaff to take forever in getting you your check, but if you want it fast, just say so.  Save yourself some trouble.  Stuff like that, some of it's on you, the customer.

Are you talking to me?  If so, how often do you think I get bad service (my estimate of 1/20 was just a random guess - the point was its rare).  To which "standards" are you referring, as I never said anything about a 3/4 full glass?  You seem to think I'm incredibly demanding, yet the expectations you mention are pretty much the same as mine (I shouldn't wait forever for the check, nor be neglected for an hour, etc.).  Also, please stay on point with the mob - you say don't tell the manager but others are telling me to complain.  Which is it?

phred

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2014, 01:00:01 PM »
tell the manager if the food itself is bad.  Bad food is rarely the server's fault, and the manager does need to know about it

phred

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2014, 01:02:14 PM »
Honobob:
  How do you increase table turnover when quite busy?  One way may be not to say 'Would you like to see the dessert menu', but what are other effective ways that still leave the guests happy?

netskyblue

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2014, 01:06:45 PM »
I was addressing the OP.

But no, *I* wouldn't escalate to "taking it to the manager" for run of the mill bad service, the first time.  If the server was doing something that I didn't like (or not doing something I did want), I'd say something to the server.  If they brought me the wrong food, I'd say so.  If I asked for two sour creams on the side, and they brought me one, I'd say excuse me, could I please get the second sour cream I asked for?  If she forgot to bring the salads before the main course came out, I'd point it out.  You're almost always going to get an apology and they'll fix it, either bring your salads now, or deduct them from the bill, as you choose.  Humans make mistakes, and a willingness to fix them when they're made is what matters to me.  I'm not going to say the service was terrible if the waiter failed to notice a mistake was made, and I chose not to point it out.  It's only terrible if I DO point it out, and they don't apologize and fix it.

It would take multiple poor experiences with the same server for me to have to inform the manager that such-and-such server just isn't good at her job. 

marblejane

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2014, 01:14:04 PM »
Honobob:
  How do you increase table turnover when quite busy?  One way may be not to say 'Would you like to see the dessert menu', but what are other effective ways that still leave the guests happy?

One way that I was taught to increase table turnover is to always clear empty glasses and plates promptly. This speeds up the next course, and guests are less likely to linger at the end of a meal if the dishes have been removed. You always offer dessert to increase your sales, just make sure to remove the dessert plates as soon as the guest is finished.

Related to that, I was taught to make sure glasses were never left empty; i.e., always offer a refill for waters/soda, and ask the patron if they would like another drink if refills don't apply (juice, wine & beer, etc). It's good service and can increase your sales, thus your tips.

Cassie

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2014, 01:15:21 PM »
The poster seems to be overly fussy to me. I always tip 20% unless the service is horrible & then 10%. It is a tough job and they do not make much $.  If my check is small because the food is cheap I leave a minimum of $3.00.

nicknageli

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2014, 01:22:14 PM »
My two cents: 

- I don't go out to eat much at all.  When I do, it's to places like Subway where I can choose my ingredients or Corner Bakery, for example, where I can look up their nutritional info online.  I also much prefer restaurants where I can order and eat without having to be waited on by a server.

- If I happen to go to a restaurant where there is a wait staff, I don't necessarily expect the person to read my mind.  I do expect them to be reasonably available though.  If I'm waiting 10-minutes for the check and I haven't seen the server come by my table for the last 30-minutes and I can see him/her in the back BS-ing with the other wait staff, that is very frustrating and makes me rethink why I frequent a restaurant at all.

I'm betting that if I left a 10% tip after poor service like that the server would just assume I was cheap.  It wouldn't surprise me if many servers (and I was one back in the day) think they just have to show up to work and that deserves a 25% gratuity.

Anyway.

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2014, 01:26:14 PM »
That attitude didn't describe me or any of my coworkers.

nicknageli

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2014, 01:38:22 PM »
That attitude didn't describe me or any of my coworkers.


frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2014, 07:17:45 PM »
Here's the same question, phrased another way:

If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?

Just curious. :)

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2014, 07:20:22 PM »
Here's the same question, phrased another way:

If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?

Just curious. :)

0.6*0.3 = 18%
1.0 * 0.15 = 15%

So I choose 18% average.

minimalist

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2014, 07:46:27 PM »
Here's the same question, phrased another way:

If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?

Just curious. :)

Based on probability, 18% is greater than 15%, but I would choose 15% because I wouldn't be a very good server.

60% of the time, it works every time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2014, 07:52:12 PM »
Here's the same question, phrased another way:

Irrelevant, and not the same question.

Again, people don't disagree with occasional 30% tips or an 18% or 15% average. They disagree with a 0% tip for anything less than perfect service, the details of which your server is supposed to somehow ESP out of you.

Of course 18% is greater than 15%. Thank you for constructing this very clever example.

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2014, 08:04:17 PM »
Here's the same question, phrased another way:

Irrelevant, and not the same question.

Again, people don't disagree with occasional 30% tips or an 18% or 15% average. They disagree with a 0% tip for anything less than perfect service, the details of which your server is supposed to somehow ESP out of you.

Of course 18% is greater than 15%. Thank you for constructing this very clever example.

True, it's not the same question as the original topic.  I more meant that as a, "since we seem to be on a similar topic anyway, let me throw this out there."

libertarian4321

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2014, 11:39:12 PM »
I think tipping is ridiculous.  I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country.  Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.

That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee.  Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #118 on: February 14, 2014, 05:27:52 AM »
I think tipping is ridiculous.  I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country.  Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.

That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee.  Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.

BPA

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #119 on: February 14, 2014, 05:54:49 AM »
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
I didn't get it either.

Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".

Probably for the best, eh?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH* Yeah, so am I the only guy here that likes p*ssywomen?   Can I ask that?  Is that too badass? Move along, nothing to see here.wom

Not badass, just homophobic and sexist.  And probably the real reason your server wouldn't make eye contact with you in your complaint above.

Here's irony:  My gay brother watches Real Housewives, so that refutes your completely illogical comment.

But what do I know?  I am just a pussy.



jrhampt

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #121 on: February 14, 2014, 07:24:57 AM »
To answer the original question, no.  Because I don't give small tips.

Jappe

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #122 on: February 14, 2014, 08:00:02 AM »
I think tipping is ridiculous.  I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country.  Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.

That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee.  Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.
Went there last oktober. Had a wonderful waitress who was kind, friendly, good at her job as well. We actually did tip her 5 for her excellent service. Just like everywhere you have exceptions on both sides. In general in Europe I've always been served nicely. A few occasions of rubbish waiters, but that exists as well in the US. Good service shouldn't depend on a system where you get payed close to nothing and can only survive on tips.

The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit. Here in Belgium we pay a rather decent wage (not gonna say it's the best paying job but you can easily live off it) for waiters. We only tip if the service was excellent.

That being said, when I go to the UK or US, I do tip the local amount since it's the culture there :)

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #123 on: February 14, 2014, 08:08:07 AM »
I think tipping is ridiculous.  I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country.  Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.

That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee.  Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.
Went there last oktober. Had a wonderful waitress who was kind, friendly, good at her job as well. We actually did tip her 5 for her excellent service. Just like everywhere you have exceptions on both sides. In general in Europe I've always been served nicely. A few occasions of rubbish waiters, but that exists as well in the US. Good service shouldn't depend on a system where you get payed close to nothing and can only survive on tips.

The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit. Here in Belgium we pay a rather decent wage (not gonna say it's the best paying job but you can easily live off it) for waiters. We only tip if the service was excellent.

That being said, when I go to the UK or US, I do tip the local amount since it's the culture there :)

I've had good experiences abroad as well. 

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #124 on: February 14, 2014, 08:49:07 AM »
...
So are you against bonuses and commission as well?

MPAVictoria

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2014, 09:08:52 AM »
"Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible."

Not my experience at all. Have eaten out many times in Germany and I would say the service is just as good as in North America.

netskyblue

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2014, 09:10:49 AM »
The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit.

Well, all restaurants could decide to increase all their food & drink prices by 20% (and charge you sales tax on it, by the way), and pay their servers a 20% commission.  (As if that would really happen...more like they'd increase prices by 20% and give servers a 12% commission, because that's the way the world really works.)

At least you're not paying sales tax on your tip.  Here in Iowa, you could be a good tipper, buy a $40 meal, and leave an $8 tip, 6% sales tax, so $50.40.  If the cost of your meal was 20% more, you'd pay $50.88 after taxes.  In Manhattan, (I think it's 8.875% tax?) it would be $52.26 instead of $51.55.  That's assuming no alcohol, I don't know how tax rates change on alcohol.

In DC, there's a 10% tax on prepared food, I believe, so your 20% tip would in essence become 22% over the original price of the meal.

Undecided

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #127 on: February 14, 2014, 09:42:39 AM »
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards. 

I think service quality varies a lot by market and segment. My opinion (based on an employee and customer view):  A "good" (not great) restaurant in a major market often has waitstaff that includes many servers who consider themselves above the job, aren't very skilled at it and know there are plenty of other restaurants with significant turnover where they could find work. So I'm not at all sure there's something wrong with the other poster's standards.

mgreczyn

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #128 on: February 14, 2014, 11:03:01 AM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

I've never waited tables, so this is just my intuition speaking, but...

I would imagine that they do not simply because providing hospitality services is a volume-driven enterprise whereas consuming hospitality services is not.  A server sees dozens of customers every day, each of whom has their own particular situation going on and may give a good or bad tip for any one of dozens of different reasons, only a couple of which boil down to performance on the server's part.  Each customer on the other hand is likely to be having their only restaurant meal that day / week / month. 

In other words, for a wait staff who gets a one-off shitty tip it's almost certainly a poor use of their time to dwell on the reasons why since the next paying customer just walked in the door and is expecting service, so they just chalk it up to "that person's an asshat" and drive on.  If I'm selling $1,000 items, I care what customers think.  If I'm selling Bloomin' Onions for $8.99 I really just want them to eat up and move on.  For a waitstaff who is consistently getting shitty tips, it might eventually dawn on them that they suck at waiting on customers, which might achieve the result you are looking for, i.e. either they reflect on how to become a better server or, more likely, they find some other way to make money.