Author Topic: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?  (Read 29897 times)

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2014, 05:21:05 PM »
Do you know of any server spitting in the food because the customer is a known jerk?

No.

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2014, 05:21:44 PM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2014, 05:23:18 PM »
The IRS has a program for restaurants to report tip income as a % of sales, so that is probably what honobob is referring to: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Voluntary-Compliance-Agreements-Restaurant-Tax-Tips

Having a "tip out" is a common practice in restaurants. I don't have data on it, but when I worked as a server, we were expected to tip out the busboys and other front-of-house staff as a percentage of our sales from our tips. It's enforced through social pressures in the restaurant. I thought this was a fairly well-known practice. Certainly, if something unusual happened in a shift, that might give you an excuse not to fully tip out as usual, but one table stiffing you wouldn't be cause.

At Outback, we didn't even do it manually. The computer just calculated it all & took it out of your check, then allocated it to all the other front of the house employees based on some complicated calculation of hourly sales and what not, so there wasn't even an option to not do so.

Eric

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2014, 05:31:08 PM »
Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way.  Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away.  To others, that means they're being rushed out.  Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal.  If not, the waitstaff was absentee.  But for others, that many times would be overbearing.  It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2014, 05:31:51 PM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.

How about the converse?  Say I leave a 30% tip (it happens).  Does the waiter pat himself on the back for a job well done or just assume I'm some kind of magnanimous fat-cat?

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2014, 05:33:50 PM »
Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way.  Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away.  To others, that means they're being rushed out.  Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal.  If not, the waitstaff was absentee.  But for others, that many times would be overbearing.  It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.

I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table.  But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.

It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.

Mori

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2014, 05:40:21 PM »
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.

When I got good tips (I was not a waiter but did fast food), I tended to remember that customer and be more responsive when they returned. Mind, I do good customer service anyway, but I remember thinking, "Man, it's nice to be appreciated!" So it probably helps more on places you go back to than on the initial trips.

I seem to remember my sister (former waitress) saying something about certain customers and how the hope was they'd sit in certain sections because they left good tips.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2014, 05:45:51 PM »
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.

When I got good tips (I was not a waiter but did fast food), I tended to remember that customer and be more responsive when they returned. Mind, I do good customer service anyway, but I remember thinking, "Man, it's nice to be appreciated!" So it probably helps more on places you go back to than on the initial trips.

I seem to remember my sister (former waitress) saying something about certain customers and how the hope was they'd sit in certain sections because they left good tips.

I don't eat anywhere regularly enough that I recognize a server.  And I don't really care if a server views me as a stingy bastard or a generous dude.  I typically tip as a reward for good service but if it's not seen as such I am seriously questioning why I should do it.

I'd still probably tip enough to not screw the server with negative tipping out or the Irs, but a constant 10% is sounding more reasonable.

Then again I'm mostly talk and will probably just keep doing what I've been doing


mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2014, 05:46:47 PM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.

How about the converse?  Say I leave a 30% tip (it happens).  Does the waiter pat himself on the back for a job well done or just assume I'm some kind of magnanimous fat-cat?

Probably a little bit of both, but more towards the you're just a nice person unless you specifically did something above & beyond for the person.

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2014, 05:47:26 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.

My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager.  Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.

How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first?  That's basically what you are doing.

Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.
Google "tip allocation".  Back in the old days when it started, early 80's?, restaurants were required to take total sales and divide each servers hours into this and then allocate 8% to each server.  It may have been increased since. 

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2014, 05:58:00 PM »
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

Lower rate.   You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html

Eric

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2014, 06:07:05 PM »
Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way.  Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away.  To others, that means they're being rushed out.  Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal.  If not, the waitstaff was absentee.  But for others, that many times would be overbearing.  It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.

I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table.  But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.

It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.

I think that's not true at all.  A good tip almost universally means that there was good service and does serve as positive reinforcement.  I'm just questioning how much a bad tip serves as negative reinforcement, because good service can still result in a bad tip. 

Mori

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2014, 06:18:42 PM »

I don't eat anywhere regularly enough that I recognize a server.  And I don't really care if a server views me as a stingy bastard or a generous dude.  I typically tip as a reward for good service but if it's not seen as such I am seriously questioning why I should do it.


I think it's more of a self-serving bias thing--where a person assumes you recognize they are awesome when you tip, but don't connect that with "I did a crappy job" when you don't. Because, of course, all of us do amazing jobs all the time.

Googling to find a good study on this gave me nothing (just ones on "do tips really work?"), so it's worth what much of the internet is worth--zero.

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2014, 06:31:05 PM »


I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).
Food service done right requires a VERY high skill level.  You are doing your job with many moving parts NOT under your control.  I have managed restaurants and was a server bartender once for about 6 months when I wanted to be between management jobs.  Once I had a regular customer that got bought/put out of business by a large corporation that needed an income and wanted to be a server.  My company had a 5 day training program for experienced servers.  I wanted to help out a regular customer and thought MAYBE their customer service experience would translate as usually I would never hire an inexperienced person NO MATTER HOW SMART THEY WERE.  She did well as far as knowing food service standards and the menu  but could NOT manage her time.  Smart woman that failed miserably.  She bailed quickly and stayed a regular customer with a much greater appreciation for the servers.  She was astounded how difficult it was.

Now I just got back from Wolfgangs Waikiki steakhouse (not Puck).  My Realtor took me there so I didn't pay.  $10.00 hamburgers and $35.00 steak at lunch.  Waiter never checked back and the last 30 minutes were spent trying to get the check.  We'd already been there 90 minutes.  The place was packed, at 2:00pm , were we all waiting for our checks?  It seemed that the place was understaffed and I discussed with my Realtor, who was upset that it was making her look bad, that if the place was consistently packed but understaffed it was management fault.  In this day and age with cell phones it should NOT be that hard to get an off duty person in  to cover a last minute call in sick.  Not sure what she tipped but it is the restaurant that will suffer when she doesn't bring in clients in the future.  where was the manager?

I think it was dragoncar that mentioned the "look" for service.  It's boggles me when I cannot get eye contact.  On the other side back in the day an experienced manager taught me how to make a table leave.  On the weekends it was "turn em and burn em".  We make more money on a new entrée than a dessert.  So she taught me how to "encourage" a table to leave without them thinking we wanted to get rid of them.   

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2014, 06:32:25 PM »
Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way.  Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away.  To others, that means they're being rushed out.  Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal.  If not, the waitstaff was absentee.  But for others, that many times would be overbearing.  It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.

I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table.  But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.

It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.

I agree half-way... your tip alone is not really a measure of service, but a server's monthly/weekly average tip % could be. If they're really good and have an average 22% tip, for example, if you come in and tip 10% without saying anything yeah they'll think you're a shitty tipper and not think twice about it. But if another server gets and average maybe 16% tip, they might look to the better-tipped server and see what they could do better. Still though, if the average 16% server gets one lonely 7% tip, that person's a bad tipper, or one individual 25% tip would just be a good tipper.

If the good server got 4 5% tips in a row I bet they would reconsider how well they're doing, because it's pretty clearly not a product of the normal distribution of good/bad tippers at that point.

Your tip reflects the level of service in the way it affects the server's average tip.

happy

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2014, 06:37:54 PM »
Ummm, don't we eat at home?
Is this whole thread relevant?

Rural

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2014, 06:45:50 PM »
Ummm, don't we eat at home?
Is this whole thread relevant?

We eat at home except when we don't. :-)

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2014, 06:47:26 PM »
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

Lower rate.   You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*  REEL LIFE!  No one reports MORE than 8% of their sales!  SO, if only one person is reporting less than 8% because you stiffed them then the govmint is gonna ask for their MONEY.  Can't we talk about the corporate welfare and leave the fucking Studio 54 staff that were making thousands a nite alone while the average good server is making a fair living because they have skills far beyond the average mortal? 

Hi, my name is honobob,  I'll be your poster today.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 06:53:01 PM by honobob »

happy

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2014, 06:51:42 PM »
Quote
We eat at home except when we don't. :-)

Oh I see, part of the frugal game. I'm just not playing right.

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2014, 06:52:44 PM »
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips

You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.

Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.

Lower rate.   You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*  REEL LIFE!  No one reports MORE than 8% of their sales!  SO, if only one person is reporting less than 8% because you stiffed them then the govmint is gonna ask for their MONEY.  Can't we talk about the corporate welfare and leave the fucking Studio 54 staff that were making thousands a nite alone while the average good server is making a fair living because they have skills far beyond the average mortal?

But with CC sales becoming more and more common, it's not really an issue as much. If you pay w/a CC and tip $0, I don't think there are allocated tips for that transaction because there is evidence of the $0 tip. It's only if you tip nothing on a cash sale that the server could incur allocated tips. But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.

Rural

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2014, 06:56:06 PM »
Quote
We eat at home except when we don't. :-)

Oh I see, part of the frugal game. I'm just not playing right.

Heh. Budget for it if you want to do it, don't if you don't. Or, in our case since we don't budget, plan on doing a little bit of eating out but don't go crazy. And to get back on topic, I figure on tips as part of the cost when planning on doing it a little bit.

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2014, 07:02:45 PM »
  But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*  I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported.  But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government.  I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales.  So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made.  Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts.  KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2014, 07:14:26 PM »
  But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*  I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported.  But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government.  I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales.  So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made.  Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts.  KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2014, 07:19:13 PM »
  But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*  I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported.  But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government.  I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales.  So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made.  Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts.  KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*

Hotstreak

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2014, 07:24:42 PM »
I typically will tip 15-20% on a bill, but there have been many times I tipped less.  I worked in service industries for years, and you know what?  It's not that hard.  You smile, be nice to people, wish them well, and perform the service you're paid to.  If you're bad, you will get a low tip from me. 

That means if you get an order wrong, never fill my glass, don't check in on the meal until I'm done eating, can't answer questions about the menu, or have an attitude if I happen to request a substitution, you can expect 5% or so.  If you mis-charge me over the menu price, you can expect that amount to be taken out of your tip.  I don't have time to run around fixing your problems -- I come to a restaurant so I DON'T have to deal with kitchen, household bullshit.  If they can't handle it, hey, the world needs ditch diggers too.



Edited to add:  No, I have never gotten berated.  However I rarely return to those places (and rarely eat out anyways).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:29:21 PM by RobbyJ »

MPAVictoria

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2014, 07:46:08 PM »
On the question of tips you all might be interested in some data points from a report by Gordon Lafer issued last year by EPI.

1. In 2011, lawmakers in Wyoming introduced a bill that would have allowed restaurants and other employers to force their wait staff to pool their tips. Tips would be redistributed among the non-wait staff, who could then be paid the subminimum wage.

2. That same year, Maine legislators passed a bill declaring that “service charges” were not tips at all. Because they aren’t tips, they don’t belong to the wait staff. Employers can pocket them—without informing customers—and redistribute them to the non-wait staff (or keep them as profit).

Pretty crooked in my view.

http://www.epi.org/publication/attack-on-american-labor-standards/


/Remember if you don't tip you may literally be taking food out of the mouths of the children of your server. There is a difference between frugal and immoral.

//"I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process." - Benjamin Harrison

eman resu

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2014, 07:54:27 PM »
I live in a rural area. Most of the places we go are the kind of places you might be told to go grab your own damn food if it gets too busy (in a pleasant, "where everybody knows your name" kind of way). We tip well because the service is friendly if not good.... or because the place is having a bad night and we're sympathetic.

The couple times I've been somewhere "new" with service so bad (attitude) that I wouldn't want to tip, we left before ordering anything. I've never been hungry enough to stick around, get treated like crap, and withhold a tip to make a point.     

Mori

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2014, 08:41:21 PM »
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?

I didn't get it either.

Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".

Probably for the best, eh?

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2014, 09:37:27 PM »
I just remembered something. I was talking to the bartender at a hotel bar in Vegas, off the strip, that has a lot of European guests (mostly German according to the bartender). I asked her about tipping as that isn't common in many countries in Europe and she said that they are allowed to automatically add a tip to the bill, but will waive it if the person requests it. This wasn't done to my bill, and of course I tipped, nor to anyone that I knew but she said that she would do it to the German patrons and almost never did they bat an eye at paying it. I don't know if this is done in all bars or if this is something allowed in Vegas. My impression is that for the Germans they are ok with paying for the tip, and wouldn't if it wasn't part of the bill because this isn't something they do back at home. Btw, from what little I know the European guests at the hotel were almost all tourists, not business travelers who I am assuming would know about tipping.

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2014, 09:40:05 PM »
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)

If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2014, 09:42:32 PM »
Also, I remember seeing this some time ago and want to share it with you. This made me laugh when I saw it, and I hope you all will enjoy it as well.
http://imgur.com/7CGWk

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2014, 10:05:29 PM »
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH*
I didn't get it either.

Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".

Probably for the best, eh?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"*  Brandi, RHOBH* Yeah, so am I the only guy here that likes p*ssywomen?   Can I ask that?  Is that too badass? Move along, nothing to see here.wom
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 10:11:45 PM by honobob »

prosaic

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2014, 10:30:42 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.


No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

Quote
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.

Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.

Now here's the problem:

1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.

While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.

That is where the 8% figure comes from.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2014, 10:58:36 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.


No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

Quote
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.

Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.

Now here's the problem:

1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.

While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.

That is where the 8% figure comes from.


The allocated tips must also be reported on each employee's W-2 form; however, you do not actually pay or withhold taxes on the allocated amounts. They are reported to the IRS for informational purposes only.

http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/sbg/tax-info/payroll-taxes/payroll-tax-obligations-for-tipped-employees.aspx

savehardretireearly.com

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2014, 04:45:30 AM »
I am extremely frugal!! I don't often go out to eat, but if I do I make sure I can afford to tip 15% if the service was excellent. I have been in the service industry and waitresses have to make a living too. If the service was terrible than I completely agree with leaving minimal to no tip, but waitresses make about $3/hr, they live on tips. Go to McD's if you want to save money!!

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2014, 05:49:01 AM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.

yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.

ok. thanks, that kind of makes sense.
here in the uk, i always make sure to tip cash to the person who served rather than adding it to the card bill or whatever because sometimes card tips just get put in a joint pool and i want to know it's going to the person who actually helped me.

The amount of the bill goes to the restaurant.

The IRS assumes a server will be tipped at least 8% so that's a bottom end of their sales that they have to declare as income. I assume the restaurant has to report per-server sales to IRS. (I'm just assuming that honobob got the % right.)

Although you give your server a tip, in many restaurants they in turn take that tip and split it up, often according to a formula based on their sales rather than their actual tips, and give some to the bus staff, the bartender, possibly some to the host, etc. If it's a fancy place I assume some to the sommelier if you bought wine.

So if you stiff them on a tip, they're paying out a percentage of your bill to a bunch of other people anyway and paying taxes on tip they didn't get.

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2014, 06:00:53 AM »
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)

If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607

No I'm referring to something that happened at the restaurant I worked at while I was there one night which didn't make the news.

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2014, 06:19:25 AM »
No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

Quote
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.

Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.

Now here's the problem:

1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.

While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.

That is where the 8% figure comes from.
You know I linked an equivalent IRS reference already right? "At large food or beverage establishments directly tipped workers must report the difference between gross tip receipts and 8% of sales if gross tip receipts are less than 8% but do not have anything withheld" is much different than "Your server has to declare 8% of your bill as income".

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MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2014, 08:33:40 AM »
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)

If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607

No I'm referring to something that happened at the restaurant I worked at while I was there one night which didn't make the news.

That's terrible, I'm very sorry that this happened to your colleague.

Daleth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2014, 09:06:35 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.

If you can't afford to leave a normal tip for normal service, you can't afford to eat out.

Numbers Man

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2014, 09:11:12 AM »
All these tipping stories of the servers being under tipped is really interesting to me. We never hear about the dirty little secrets of the servers under tipping their support staff like the bus boys.

I was the only bus boy at a high end hotel restaurant that was always busy on the weekends. There was one server that was ready to retire in a year or so but I suspected she was under tipping me. So I checked her credit card receipts at the hotel front desk and confirmed she was under tipping me. I stopped busing her tables. I really had a good laugh watching her bus the table and bring the heavy tray down the 50 foot ramp into the kitchen. I loved it when she bitched at me. I hope she learned her lesson.

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2014, 09:13:11 AM »
Serving is hard work for low pay no matter how you slice it. A lot of customers are difficult, making it that much worse. I once saw a man dump a milkshake on a waitresses head because it was the wrong flavor, and one time a guy in a drive thru, threw a hot coffee in the window at me. I was a manager at the time, and trying to help out the servers who had gotten behind due to volume. When he called back later to complain about receiving the wrong coffee, I thanked him for letting me know about the bad service, and let him know that if he would like to come back, I would be happy to let the police sort out his assault on my worker (didn't tell him it was me). He hung up abruptly and didn't return.

What the average customer may not see, is that in both cases, the workers needed to immediately put on a smile as if nothing bad had happened, and wait on the next customer, because clearly what just happened was not their fault. Have a little grace with people. It's a tough job. And if you're leaving 0% without complaining to the manager, it's just a dick move. The manager is not the nuclear option. That is what they are there for.


grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2014, 09:18:35 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
It isn't?

Daleth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2014, 09:19:35 AM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.

No, I think it's because they think if you were dissatisfied with something, you would have told them (so that they could fix the problem) or the manager (ditto). Therefore, if you acted perfectly fine throughout the meal, seemed to like your food but left a shitty tip, the natural conclusion is that you're a shitty tipper.

I mean, think about it this way: Does it make ANY sense to act fine, say nothing, and leave a shitty tip? You're basically assuming that the server will be able to guess which of her many actions or inactions, or which aspects of the food or the presentation, bothered you. Apart from being completely passive-aggressive, as a method of making someone improve, that is just idiotic. If you were trying to train your dog not to shit in the house, would you just go through your entire day, watch him shit in the house, say nothing, and then swat him with a newspaper three hours later?

You can't cultivate better service by NOT telling people what was wrong with their service. That simply doesn't work. Therefore, if you don't tell them what's wrong, but simply eat your food and seem fine and then leave a shitty tip, the conclusion is you're an asshole--either because you're a shitty tipper, or because you must have been displeased with something but were too wimpy and passive-aggressive to let them know, or a mix of both.

netskyblue

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2014, 09:44:46 AM »
All these tipping stories of the servers being under tipped is really interesting to me. We never hear about the dirty little secrets of the servers under tipping their support staff like the bus boys.

Where I worked, we didn't have bussers (we bussed our own tables), but we did have to tip out the kitchen and the bartender.  When the owner gave us our money at the end of the night, he kept 1% of our sales for the kitchen, 1% for the bar.  It really pissed me off when we didn't HAVE a bartender, and the owner himself was bartending, and he'd still take some of our tips for himself.

Of course, everything about the place was dodgy and illegal.  The kitchen staff was well-paid, but all under the table, and the wait staff wasn't paid at all. 

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2014, 09:46:52 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.

Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com

To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:

"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"

Daleth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2014, 09:50:43 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.

Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com

To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:

"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"

Please let's not be morons, Russ. There's a world of difference there--$100k is almost seven times $14,500. If you have achieved FI and own your own home free and clear, sure, $14,500 can be enough to live on. But would anyone here seriously ever recommend to another Mustachian who has NOT yet achieved FI that they should work 40 hrs/week for $14,500/year? Of course not--because for those who don't yet have a house free and clear it's an absolutely terrible amount of money, barely subsistence level in most of the USA.

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2014, 10:14:50 AM »
Please let's not be morons, Russ. There's a world of difference there--$100k is almost seven times $14,500. If you have achieved FI and own your own home free and clear, sure, $14,500 can be enough to live on. But would anyone here seriously ever recommend to another Mustachian who has NOT yet achieved FI that they should work 40 hrs/week for $14,500/year? Of course not--because for those who don't yet have a house free and clear it's an absolutely terrible amount of money, barely subsistence level in most of the USA.

I normally wouldn't recommend it because there are hundreds of better-paying options for anyone with an iota of skills/experience. That doesn't mean it's not enough to live on.

This is also independent of any discussion of whether minimum wage is a fair wage or not, which I'm decidedly undecided on.

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2014, 10:17:43 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.

Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com

To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:

"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"

LOL, I had to check to make sure I was on the correct website for a second there


The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.

Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.

No, I think it's because they think if you were dissatisfied with something, you would have told them (so that they could fix the problem) or the manager (ditto). Therefore, if you acted perfectly fine throughout the meal, seemed to like your food but left a shitty tip, the natural conclusion is that you're a shitty tipper.

I mean, think about it this way: Does it make ANY sense to act fine, say nothing, and leave a shitty tip? You're basically assuming that the server will be able to guess which of her many actions or inactions, or which aspects of the food or the presentation, bothered you. Apart from being completely passive-aggressive, as a method of making someone improve, that is just idiotic. If you were trying to train your dog not to shit in the house, would you just go through your entire day, watch him shit in the house, say nothing, and then swat him with a newspaper three hours later?

You can't cultivate better service by NOT telling people what was wrong with their service. That simply doesn't work. Therefore, if you don't tell them what's wrong, but simply eat your food and seem fine and then leave a shitty tip, the conclusion is you're an asshole--either because you're a shitty tipper, or because you must have been displeased with something but were too wimpy and passive-aggressive to let them know, or a mix of both.

Ok, from now on I'll be a "manly man" and when my waiter fucks up, I'll tell him to go get the manager and bend over for a spanking.  Honestly, I don't reduce my tips for ephemeral bullshit like "didn't like your shirt."  If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything.  You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right?  If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.