Author Topic: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?  (Read 29881 times)

frugally

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Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« on: February 12, 2014, 10:58:08 AM »
I see in the 'how much do you tip' thread that a lot of people give 10%, and I'm curious if anyone has had a horrible experience at a restaurant like that?  I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.

To clarify: I probably end up leaving a 30% tip 60-75% of the time, and 0% other times.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 12:45:51 PM by frugally »

Eric

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 11:04:02 AM »
If you're talking about this thread:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/ask-a-mustachian/how-much-do-you-tip/

I'm not sure where you're getting 10% from.  The vast majority of the responses were 20% and the remainder were 15% with only a couple of outliers.

iamlindoro

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 11:10:18 AM »
IMO, 0% should be reserved for absolutely abysmal service, and in that case it should not come as a surprise to the server.  If 0% is something you're doing often, and for anything less than stellar, I urge you to reconsider given the fact that most servers are making far below minimum wage and rely on your tip to achieve a living wage.

What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip?  I'm genuinely curious.  Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 11:23:11 AM by iamlindoro »

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 11:20:33 AM »
Yeah pretty sure there was only one by-default 10%'er in that thread, and even then they upped the tip to 15% often enough to mention. The rest tipped higher and went down to 10% in the case of bad service.

What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip?  I'm genuinely curious.  Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.

I'm also curious, as "less-than-stellar" could mean a lot of different things.

Mori

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 11:25:52 AM »
I've left close to 0% (just the change or like $1), but that was because they literally forgot/ignored our party after getting our drinks. We were sitting right across from the manned register and near the front door for more than 45 minutes after our drinks were served. No coming to check on us, no asking if we were ready to order, and not too many other customers (fairly dead day). They only came to wait on us when one of us finally got up and asked the person at the register what was going on. No explanation was given. My friends are better than I, because if they weren't there I would have paid for my drink and just left. I didn't give an explanation for my tip and they didn't ask. :)

Other than that I typically tip 15% or more at sit-down places.

Edited for bad grammar.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 11:27:24 AM by Mori »

KingCoin

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 11:34:11 AM »
IMO, 0% should be reserved for absolutely abysmal service, and in that case it should not come as a surprise to the server.  If 0% is something you're doing often, and for anything less than stellar, I urge you to reconsider given the fact that most servers are making far below minimum wage and rely on your tip to achieve a living wage.

What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip?  I'm genuinely curious.  Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.

Agreed. In my 16 years of fairly frequent dining, I struggle to think of a time when 0% tip was justified. Unless the server was openly and unambiguously hostile, there's a tacit agreement that 10-20% tip should be paid for even fairly poor or indifferent service.

If the waiter forgets you (or never engages you at all), it's doubtful that this was an intentional slight. Misunderstandings and screw-ups happen. Waiters are human. If you feel like you've been forgotten, wave your hand at a waiter and see what's going on. Maybe knock the tip down from 17% to 12%. 0% should be reserved for repeated and major problems (that are within your server's control) and 0 attempt to ameliorate them, even when brought to the server's attention.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 11:35:42 AM by KingCoin »

KingCoin

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 11:38:11 AM »
I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.

Also, if you started getting called out for shafting the service, would that make you less inclined to do so? "Getting away with it" doesn't justify it.

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 11:39:58 AM »
Interesting comments. :)

To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly.  I consider that stellar service.  In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.

It does look like I was reading through a bit too quickly, I see your point, Eric.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 12:46:31 PM by frugally »

soccerluvof4

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 11:47:21 AM »
I dont think 7.25 is a living wage. I would have to be convinced that the waiter/waitress intentionally gave me shotty service and even then would probably ask for an explanation. Alot of times behind the scenes there are other things going on that my not be there fault. While they can keep coming to the table with excuses it might really be because another server didnt show up and they are covering and or the cook is behind.  Just something to think about because i too have gotten irritated but more times than not it wasnt the servers fault.

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 11:52:41 AM »
For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly.  I consider that stellar service, but probably only receive that around 25% of the time.  In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.

Do they know this ahead of time? I bet you'd get exactly what you wanted 90% of the time if you proposed a 30% tip and laid out the expectations when you were seated

iamlindoro

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 11:54:01 AM »
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.

You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

MayDay

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 12:01:45 PM »
I used to live in a state that required a minimum wage of over 8$ for servers, and it affected my tipping.  I still tipped, but in no way did I feel like I needed to make sure I hit 20% every time, no matter what.  A friend of mine waitressed and typically made in the 20-30$ range with salary + tips. 

I am not the OP, but I can tell you that the only time I left a zero tip was when the waitress brought the wrong meal, never checked on me, and I tried to find her myself and couldn't find her.  After about 30 minutes I found a manager, told him I wasn't paying for my not-right food, and couldn't find my waitress to tell her, and I left. 

jawisco

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2014, 12:05:44 PM »
I think if you are giving a 0% tip more than once every few years, you either need to get a grip on what kind of a living $7.25 brings you and start tipping more or stop dining out all together. 

Sounds to me like you are being really demanding and being cheap.  Have you ever worked as a server or in a restaurant or any low wage job?

okashira

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2014, 12:08:13 PM »
7.25??

When my GF was waiting tables last year, it was like $4.00/hr.

And giving 0 tip for 'less then stellar' service is the definition of CHEAP; there is nothing frugal about it.

KingCoin

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2014, 12:10:26 PM »
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

Not to mention, I'm sure servers have plenty of stories of patrons who self righteously complained about the screwed up order, when in fact, the patron screwed it up themselves (they only thought they told the waiter to hold the mustard).

Bottom line, you should give your server the benefit of the doubt.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2014, 12:18:06 PM »
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.

You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service

minimalist

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2014, 12:24:16 PM »
I see in the 'how much do you tip' thread that a lot of people give 10%, and I'm curious if anyone has had a horrible experience at a restaurant like that?  I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.

If you are giving 0% regularly, the problem is probably your expectations. Please just stop going out at all for the sake of the servers. I personally do not like the tipping system, but that doesn't give me an excuse to screw someone over.

MN minimum wage for tipped employees is $5.25 for a small employer and $6.15 for a large employer (source: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm#Minnesota) and servers usually cannot get a full time schedule or benefits, so that is not really a living wage.

iamlindoro

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2014, 12:26:31 PM »
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.

You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service

As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected.  That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you).  My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips.  Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.

honobob

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2014, 12:27:18 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.

My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager.  Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.

How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first?  That's basically what you are doing.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 12:30:26 PM by honobob »

Rural

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2014, 12:29:11 PM »
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.

You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service

As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected.  That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you).  My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips.  Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.

I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2014, 12:31:09 PM »
I totally agree with Dragoncar.  What's the difference between what a wait-staff does and someone who brings me my order at McDonald's, helps my wife carry out her groceries or helps me find something at Wal-mart?  I tip those people if they go above and beyond as well.

If I'm paying $15 for someone to make me a steak and onion rings, how does that obligate me to pay an extra 15% when they bring me steak and fries?  It doesn't make any sense.

Also, I have worked in the food industry where tips made up a portion of my overall pay, and still have this perspective.  What I'm asking for isn't that hard.

For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly.  I consider that stellar service, but probably only receive that around 25% of the time.  In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.

Do they know this ahead of time? I bet you'd get exactly what you wanted 90% of the time if you proposed a 30% tip and laid out the expectations when you were seated

That's an extremely good point, and I haven't thought of doing that before.  I'll try that when my wife and I go out on Valentine's Day.

iamlindoro

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 12:33:32 PM »
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base.  Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage. 

I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.

You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?

I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service

As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected.  That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you).  My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips.  Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.

I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).

Perhaps it's just my own perception.  For me, I think that being a waiter or bartender and working your way through school (or even as a long term profession) is commonplace, based on lots of my friends having done it.  Conversely, someone putting themselves through college working at McDonalds (or working there long term) sounds like hell (since there's next to no chance of them regularly making over their minimum wage).

I dunno, maybe it says more about me than society, didn't mean to speak opinion as fact.

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2014, 12:37:00 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.

My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager.  Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.

How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first?  That's basically what you are doing.

Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.

Elaine

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 12:38:00 PM »
Once a guy left me a $0.12 tip on a $40 bill- he was one of only three tables so I knew my service hadn't been slow or anything. I ran after him and gave it back, he was like "no that's for you". To which I replied, "oh no, I couldn't, I mean where would I even spend this all at once?"

iamlindoro

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 12:39:46 PM »
If I'm paying $15 for someone to make me a steak and onion rings, how does that obligate me to pay an extra 15% when they bring me steak and fries?  It doesn't make any sense.

Because the cost of your steak and fries is artificially deflated by paying the wait staff less than they are expected to make, on the implicit understanding that this deficit will be made up by your tip.

You may not like it, but this is the expectation in the USA.  Elsewhere (Europe in particular) this is not the case, and food is generally more expensive in a restaurant as a result.  If you choose to tip below what society anticipates, or nothing at all, that's your choice-- but justifying it as "I paid for my food" rings a little hollow.

zinnie

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2014, 12:43:12 PM »
Wow. I have never tipped 0%. I tipped a dollar and change ONCE in my life, when the server forgot about us and we couldn't get her attention and had to get back to work.

Frugally--have you ever worked as a server? That completely changed my perspective. I usually do 18-20% regardless of service. I hate the whole tipping system and would much rather it be like Italy where you can give a euro or so for stellar service but where servers are paid properly by their employers instead of customers getting to make the decision on their performance.

garth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 12:43:42 PM »
I have no problem leaving nothing, or close to nothing, after horrible service at an upscale restaurant (e.g., bill for two is in the $100-$150 range). At a fast casual place though, I probably wouldn't go lower than 15%. Maybe 10% if it's really bad.

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 12:44:50 PM »
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.

Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.  However, that means I tip 18% on average.  What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing?  Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.

garth

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 12:52:24 PM »
Frugally--have you ever worked as a server? That completely changed my perspective. I usually do 18-20% regardless of service.

I used to always tip generously. Then I worked as a line cook and that changed my perspective on servers (I think they're overpaid relative to the value they provide). Now I vary tips according to service.

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 01:00:03 PM »
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.

For the sake of discussion it would probably be more productive to be less dramatic and more factual next time. Now people are gonna think you're just backpedalling.

Quote
Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.  However, that means I tip 18% on average.  What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing?  Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.

Well, my biggest issue with your method (aside from the 0% tip itself, which I disagree with but whatever), is that once you've left nobody knows what they've done wrong and you're the asshole who just didn't leave a tip. It would be more productive for you to speak to a manager or the server themselves and at least let them know what they could fix. That way they (a) have a chance to make it right this time, and (b) know what you expect next time you're in. If you think the service doesn't meet your expectations, but isn't so bad that it warrants speaking to a manager, maybe you could reconsider the binary STELLAR 30% or SHITTY 0% construction that you've set up in your head.

Regarding "making an example", my question to you is what kind of example do you think you're making, and do you think anybody besides you actually gets it?

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 01:04:34 PM »
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.

For the sake of discussion it would probably be more productive to be less dramatic and more factual next time. Now people are gonna think you're just backpedalling.

Quote
Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.  However, that means I tip 18% on average.  What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing?  Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.

Well, my biggest issue with your method (aside from the 0% tip itself, which I disagree with but whatever), is that once you've left nobody knows what they've done wrong and you're the asshole who just didn't leave a tip. It would be more productive for you to speak to a manager or the server themselves and at least let them know what they could fix. That way they (a) have a chance to make it right this time, and (b) know what you expect next time you're in. If you think the service doesn't meet your expectations, but isn't so bad that it warrants speaking to a manager, maybe you could reconsider the binary STELLAR 30% or SHITTY 0% construction that you've set up in your head.

Regarding "making an example", my question to you is what kind of example do you think you're making, and do you think anybody besides you actually gets it?

Agreed, I've got a penchant for dramatization.  Not sure what you mean by making an example, though.  My whole philosophy behind tipping is to give a bigger reward to those who appear to have earned it.

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2014, 01:09:03 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.


Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.

yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.

MPAVictoria

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2014, 01:17:12 PM »
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:

    "Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
    Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
    Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
    Mr. Pink: I don't believe in it.
    Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
    Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make BLEEP.
    Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.
    Nice Guy Eddie: BLEEP Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip, huh?
    Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I mean I'll tip if somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth the effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
    Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.
    Mr. Pink: She was OK. But she wasn't anything special.
    Mr. Blue: What's special? BLEEP
    Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
    Mr. Pink: Look, I ordered coffee, alright? And we been here a long BLEEP time and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee I want it filled six times.
    Mr. Blonde: Six times? Well, what if she's too BLEEP busy?
    Mr. Pink: The words "too fucking busy" shouldn't be in a waitress' vocabulary.
    Nice Guy Eddie: Excuse me Mr. Pink, but the last BLEEP thing you need is another cup of coffee.
    Mr. Pink: Jesus Christ I mean, these ladies aren't starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage and when I did I wasn't lucky enough to have a job the society deemed tipworthy.
    Mr. Blue: You don't care if they're counting on your tips to live?
    Mr. Pink: [rubbing his middle finger and thumb together] You know what this is? The world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.
    Mr. White: You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their BLEEP. This is a hard job.
    Mr. Pink: So is working at McDonald's, but you don't see anyone tip them, do ya? Why not?, they're serving you food. But no, society says don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here.
    Mr. White: Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get, and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.
    Mr. Pink: BLEEP all that.
    Mr. Brown: Jesus Christ.
    Mr. Pink: I mean I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's BLEEP up. That ain't my fault. It would appear to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government BLEEP on a regular basis. If you show me a piece of paper that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college BLEEP you're givin' me, I got two words for that: learn to BLEEP type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big BLEEP' surprise.
    Mr. Orange: He's convinced me. Gimme my dollar back!""

My opinion? Tip your servers. If you can't afford to tip stay home.

Russ

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2014, 01:29:55 PM »
Not sure what you mean by making an example, though.

Misinterpretation of what you were trying to say. I read
I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.
"as an example"  as "to make a point", not as "in this hypothetical situation", since I thought we were done being hypothetical and dramatizing.

Also, if you hadn't yet been asked or berated about low tipping, you are now ;-)

frugally

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2014, 01:31:32 PM »
Not sure what you mean by making an example, though.

Misinterpretation of what you were trying to say. I read
I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.
"as an example"  as "to make a point", not as "in this hypothetical situation", since I thought we were done being hypothetical and dramatizing.

Also, if you hadn't yet been asked or berated about low tipping, you are now ;-)

Haha I know, right?  Nothing wrong with a healthy debate though as long as it stays clean. :-)

ritchie70

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2014, 01:34:55 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.

yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.

The amount of the bill goes to the restaurant.

The IRS assumes a server will be tipped at least 8% so that's a bottom end of their sales that they have to declare as income. I assume the restaurant has to report per-server sales to IRS. (I'm just assuming that honobob got the % right.)

Although you give your server a tip, in many restaurants they in turn take that tip and split it up, often according to a formula based on their sales rather than their actual tips, and give some to the bus staff, the bartender, possibly some to the host, etc. If it's a fancy place I assume some to the sommelier if you bought wine.

So if you stiff them on a tip, they're paying out a percentage of your bill to a bunch of other people anyway and paying taxes on tip they didn't get.

somepissedoffman

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2014, 01:35:31 PM »
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:



haha, I was waiting for that

MPAVictoria

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2014, 01:38:15 PM »
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:



haha, I was waiting for that

Hahaha! Actually the second time today I have quoted that scene.

netskyblue

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2014, 01:43:53 PM »
As a former waitress, if someone left me no tip and it wasn't due to some horrible thing I'd done, you can bet I'd refuse to wait on them a second time.  Why waste my time on you when I can help someone else instead that WILL leave a decent tip?

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2014, 02:22:32 PM »
I've never worked as a waiter so I can't speak from experience, but I think people should tip if you go to a restaurant. I don't know so making any assumptions would be unfair, so let's just say that absent any other information I would not hang out with anyone that I knew to not tip unless the service was exceptional. The few people I have known that act like that are people that believe a dollar is a decent tip, and that the waitress must give exceptional service to get that.

If the service was terrible, I would talk to the server or the manager, but then again I am don't mind confrontation. To me, walking out without tipping due to some problem is akin to cowardess.

If you are honstly asking if it is common to be confronted when not leaving a tip, then I think you have your priorities in the wrong order. My question would be, why is the case that you are not leaving a tip? If you are going to the restaurants that give you such abysmal service, why do you keep going there? Could it be that your standards of service are way too lofty? I've been restaurants where the waitress would come by without a smile, take your order, bring you your food, and then disappear until the bill and that still deserves a tip (this is what I expect when I walk into a Denny, if this were Morton's I would complain).

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2014, 02:59:01 PM »
This reminds me:  One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer.  It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).

I paid with my card, and it had a line for tips -- I put 0.00 (I think that line is super awkward).

The girl said "thank you... sooo much".  Her voice wasn't exactly dripping with irony, but at the same time I can't imagine it was meant any other way.

Anyways, that's the most I've ever been berated.  I'm still not sure if it was intended as such, but again, she makes at least $10.75 + health benefits, so I'm not super worried about keeping her in clove cigarettes and ponytail scrunchies.

MgoSam

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2014, 03:17:04 PM »
This reminds me:  One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer.  It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).

Yeah, I never have any idea what to do for situations like this, or when you get takeout at Chinese restaurants. I have no idea of whether it is considered normal to tip in these situations but I usually do. Sadly, this isn't altruism for me, but rather that the places I get takeout from the same places and they remember me and I suspect my food is slightly better.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2014, 03:25:45 PM »
This reminds me:  One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer.  It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).

Yeah, I never have any idea what to do for situations like this, or when you get takeout at Chinese restaurants. I have no idea of whether it is considered normal to tip in these situations but I usually do. Sadly, this isn't altruism for me, but rather that the places I get takeout from the same places and they remember me and I suspect my food is slightly better.

I'd probably tip for takeout, especially as a regular.  Case by case, but probably someone had to take your call, box the order, take payment, etc.  If that person is a waiter, then it takes them away from their tables.  I think 5-10% is good.

Prof Penny Pincher

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2014, 03:27:38 PM »
As someone from the UK this sounds very strange. Over here it's 10% for good / great service and nothing for poor service. A few years back I was a waiter at 4 an hour, which was about $6 at the time. On an average day I got $10 of tips from an 8 hour shift...

Even with no tips it was better than most shop jobs that a young person could get
, so no tips wasn't the end of the world...

grantmeaname

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2014, 04:32:33 PM »
frugally, you are actually costing the server money.  They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes.  Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales.  So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that?  I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.

yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.
Servers almost or literally never pay the restaurant part of their tips for the privilege of being an employee. I've never heard of it. Sometimes servers pool tips - so everyone chips in a part of their tips and it's redistributed evenly among all the servers, and income is less volatile - but I don't think it's ever the case that they pay money to the restaurant on a per-table basis.

phred

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2014, 05:09:55 PM »
one problem is many believe the minimum wage for wait-staff is the same minimum wage for non-server jobs.

McDonalds workers don't get tips; McDonalds workers don't come to your table, refill your glass unless you get up & walk to the counter, bring you condiments, clean the table, tell you something may be off,or take time to give you directions to various sites. They may also  serve you lukewarm food because it's been sitting too long

Bar tenders and wine stewards or generally tipped separately from wait-staff

Tips for picking up a carry out/take out are almost never expected as you're not getting table service.  If you want, you can throw a couple coins into the tip bucket.

The hostess is not tipped.  The maitre-d usually is unless you want a table next to the dishwasher. 

mlipps

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2014, 05:10:10 PM »
From my own experience working as a server at Outback, when I clocked out at the end of the night, the computer would automatically assign 10% of my cash sales as tips. Realistically, I usually made more than 10% on average on cash sales, but if you made less, I think you had to have a manager verify that & override the entry. There is something called "allocated tips" which can show up on a W-2 for a tipped employee if the reported tips do not seem to be sufficient, but I can't find any sources on how those amounts are calculated or at what thresholds.

BUT it is 100% true that at almost any restaurant above the most minimum, cheap place, servers tip out on SALES to busboys, bar tenders, bar backs, and sometimes host/hostesses. At Outback, I believe we tipped out something around 3%? But I can't exactly remember. I remember complaining when someone left a shitty tip on a $50 or $100 meal that you had paid $5 or $10 to wait the table, but I think we were doing shitty math. On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry), our manager could do some sort of override so they didn't have to tip out on that bill, but I only remember it happening maybe once or twice.

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing. I usually leave about 10% for lousy service on rare occasion, and otherwise pretty much stick to 20% 99.9% of the time. Serving is hard work and usually for no benefits BUT I personally was a pretty mediocre waitress in a small town, at a not terribly expensive restaurant, and the truth is I made about $15/hour on average. I don't really buy the whole servers are grossly underpaid, we should tip 30%, 40%, blah blah blah for exceptional service, but I do leave an extra tip every once in a while just to be a nice human being.

phred

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2014, 05:18:22 PM »
Do you know of any server spitting in the food because the customer is a known jerk?

marblejane

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 05:19:50 PM »
The IRS has a program for restaurants to report tip income as a % of sales, so that is probably what honobob is referring to: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Voluntary-Compliance-Agreements-Restaurant-Tax-Tips

Having a "tip out" is a common practice in restaurants. I don't have data on it, but when I worked as a server, we were expected to tip out the busboys and other front-of-house staff as a percentage of our sales from our tips. It's enforced through social pressures in the restaurant. I thought this was a fairly well-known practice. Certainly, if something unusual happened in a shift, that might give you an excuse not to fully tip out as usual, but one table stiffing you wouldn't be cause.

dragoncar

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Re: Has anyone ever gotten asked/berated about giving a small tip?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 05:20:17 PM »

The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.

Why would that be?  They don't consider how their service could have been better?  I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.