The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: frugally on February 12, 2014, 10:58:08 AM
-
I see in the 'how much do you tip' thread that a lot of people give 10%, and I'm curious if anyone has had a horrible experience at a restaurant like that? I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.
To clarify: I probably end up leaving a 30% tip 60-75% of the time, and 0% other times.
-
If you're talking about this thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-much-do-you-tip/
I'm not sure where you're getting 10% from. The vast majority of the responses were 20% and the remainder were 15% with only a couple of outliers.
-
IMO, 0% should be reserved for absolutely abysmal service, and in that case it should not come as a surprise to the server. If 0% is something you're doing often, and for anything less than stellar, I urge you to reconsider given the fact that most servers are making far below minimum wage and rely on your tip to achieve a living wage.
What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip? I'm genuinely curious. Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.
-
Yeah pretty sure there was only one by-default 10%'er in that thread, and even then they upped the tip to 15% often enough to mention. The rest tipped higher and went down to 10% in the case of bad service.
What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip? I'm genuinely curious. Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.
I'm also curious, as "less-than-stellar" could mean a lot of different things.
-
I've left close to 0% (just the change or like $1), but that was because they literally forgot/ignored our party after getting our drinks. We were sitting right across from the manned register and near the front door for more than 45 minutes after our drinks were served. No coming to check on us, no asking if we were ready to order, and not too many other customers (fairly dead day). They only came to wait on us when one of us finally got up and asked the person at the register what was going on. No explanation was given. My friends are better than I, because if they weren't there I would have paid for my drink and just left. I didn't give an explanation for my tip and they didn't ask. :)
Other than that I typically tip 15% or more at sit-down places.
Edited for bad grammar.
-
IMO, 0% should be reserved for absolutely abysmal service, and in that case it should not come as a surprise to the server. If 0% is something you're doing often, and for anything less than stellar, I urge you to reconsider given the fact that most servers are making far below minimum wage and rely on your tip to achieve a living wage.
What kinds of things will trigger you to not leave a tip? I'm genuinely curious. Things like slow or seemingly inattentive service may be out of the server's hands (too large a section, kitchen screwups, etc), etc.
Agreed. In my 16 years of fairly frequent dining, I struggle to think of a time when 0% tip was justified. Unless the server was openly and unambiguously hostile, there's a tacit agreement that 10-20% tip should be paid for even fairly poor or indifferent service.
If the waiter forgets you (or never engages you at all), it's doubtful that this was an intentional slight. Misunderstandings and screw-ups happen. Waiters are human. If you feel like you've been forgotten, wave your hand at a waiter and see what's going on. Maybe knock the tip down from 17% to 12%. 0% should be reserved for repeated and major problems (that are within your server's control) and 0 attempt to ameliorate them, even when brought to the server's attention.
-
I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.
Also, if you started getting called out for shafting the service, would that make you less inclined to do so? "Getting away with it" doesn't justify it.
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly. I consider that stellar service. In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.
It does look like I was reading through a bit too quickly, I see your point, Eric.
-
I dont think 7.25 is a living wage. I would have to be convinced that the waiter/waitress intentionally gave me shotty service and even then would probably ask for an explanation. Alot of times behind the scenes there are other things going on that my not be there fault. While they can keep coming to the table with excuses it might really be because another server didnt show up and they are covering and or the cook is behind. Just something to think about because i too have gotten irritated but more times than not it wasnt the servers fault.
-
For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly. I consider that stellar service, but probably only receive that around 25% of the time. In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.
Do they know this ahead of time? I bet you'd get exactly what you wanted 90% of the time if you proposed a 30% tip and laid out the expectations when you were seated
-
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
-
I used to live in a state that required a minimum wage of over 8$ for servers, and it affected my tipping. I still tipped, but in no way did I feel like I needed to make sure I hit 20% every time, no matter what. A friend of mine waitressed and typically made in the 20-30$ range with salary + tips.
I am not the OP, but I can tell you that the only time I left a zero tip was when the waitress brought the wrong meal, never checked on me, and I tried to find her myself and couldn't find her. After about 30 minutes I found a manager, told him I wasn't paying for my not-right food, and couldn't find my waitress to tell her, and I left.
-
I think if you are giving a 0% tip more than once every few years, you either need to get a grip on what kind of a living $7.25 brings you and start tipping more or stop dining out all together.
Sounds to me like you are being really demanding and being cheap. Have you ever worked as a server or in a restaurant or any low wage job?
-
7.25??
When my GF was waiting tables last year, it was like $4.00/hr.
And giving 0 tip for 'less then stellar' service is the definition of CHEAP; there is nothing frugal about it.
-
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
Not to mention, I'm sure servers have plenty of stories of patrons who self righteously complained about the screwed up order, when in fact, the patron screwed it up themselves (they only thought they told the waiter to hold the mustard).
Bottom line, you should give your server the benefit of the doubt.
-
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service
-
I see in the 'how much do you tip' thread that a lot of people give 10%, and I'm curious if anyone has had a horrible experience at a restaurant like that? I will give a 0% tip fairly often for less-than-stellar service, and haven't had a problem myself.
If you are giving 0% regularly, the problem is probably your expectations. Please just stop going out at all for the sake of the servers. I personally do not like the tipping system, but that doesn't give me an excuse to screw someone over.
MN minimum wage for tipped employees is $5.25 for a small employer and $6.15 for a large employer (source: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm#Minnesota) and servers usually cannot get a full time schedule or benefits, so that is not really a living wage.
-
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service
As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected. That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you). My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips. Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager. Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.
How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first? That's basically what you are doing.
-
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service
As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected. That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you). My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips. Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.
I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).
-
I totally agree with Dragoncar. What's the difference between what a wait-staff does and someone who brings me my order at McDonald's, helps my wife carry out her groceries or helps me find something at Wal-mart? I tip those people if they go above and beyond as well.
If I'm paying $15 for someone to make me a steak and onion rings, how does that obligate me to pay an extra 15% when they bring me steak and fries? It doesn't make any sense.
Also, I have worked in the food industry where tips made up a portion of my overall pay, and still have this perspective. What I'm asking for isn't that hard.
For me, I need someone to get my order totally right, check in twice, and bring the bill relatively quickly. I consider that stellar service, but probably only receive that around 25% of the time. In those cases, I tip 30% of my bill.
Do they know this ahead of time? I bet you'd get exactly what you wanted 90% of the time if you proposed a 30% tip and laid out the expectations when you were seated
That's an extremely good point, and I haven't thought of doing that before. I'll try that when my wife and I go out on Valentine's Day.
-
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
I think $7.25 comes up pretty far short of a living wage, personally, even in places with very low COL.
You mention they should get your order entirely right, so what happens if the kitchen screws up and the server is too much of a professional to blame someone else?
I certainly hope you tip fast food employees, store clerks, and any other minim wage employee that provides a service
As you might expect, I don't in general-- but I also don't think it's a living wage for those that make it where tips are not expected. That said, it's offtopic here (but would be an interesting topic for discussion I will grant you). My only point was that wait service is considered socially to be a rung above minimum wage labor, and in the USA at least, we've engineered a system where the majority of a waiter's income is meant to be derived from tips. Tipping 0 with the excuse of "well they make $7.25" is a deflection, again IMO.
I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).
Perhaps it's just my own perception. For me, I think that being a waiter or bartender and working your way through school (or even as a long term profession) is commonplace, based on lots of my friends having done it. Conversely, someone putting themselves through college working at McDonalds (or working there long term) sounds like hell (since there's next to no chance of them regularly making over their minimum wage).
I dunno, maybe it says more about me than society, didn't mean to speak opinion as fact.
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager. Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.
How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first? That's basically what you are doing.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
-
Once a guy left me a $0.12 tip on a $40 bill- he was one of only three tables so I knew my service hadn't been slow or anything. I ran after him and gave it back, he was like "no that's for you". To which I replied, "oh no, I couldn't, I mean where would I even spend this all at once?"
-
If I'm paying $15 for someone to make me a steak and onion rings, how does that obligate me to pay an extra 15% when they bring me steak and fries? It doesn't make any sense.
Because the cost of your steak and fries is artificially deflated by paying the wait staff less than they are expected to make, on the implicit understanding that this deficit will be made up by your tip.
You may not like it, but this is the expectation in the USA. Elsewhere (Europe in particular) this is not the case, and food is generally more expensive in a restaurant as a result. If you choose to tip below what society anticipates, or nothing at all, that's your choice-- but justifying it as "I paid for my food" rings a little hollow.
-
Wow. I have never tipped 0%. I tipped a dollar and change ONCE in my life, when the server forgot about us and we couldn't get her attention and had to get back to work.
Frugally--have you ever worked as a server? That completely changed my perspective. I usually do 18-20% regardless of service. I hate the whole tipping system and would much rather it be like Italy where you can give a euro or so for stellar service but where servers are paid properly by their employers instead of customers getting to make the decision on their performance.
-
I have no problem leaving nothing, or close to nothing, after horrible service at an upscale restaurant (e.g., bill for two is in the $100-$150 range). At a fast casual place though, I probably wouldn't go lower than 15%. Maybe 10% if it's really bad.
-
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.
Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example. However, that means I tip 18% on average. What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing? Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.
-
Frugally--have you ever worked as a server? That completely changed my perspective. I usually do 18-20% regardless of service.
I used to always tip generously. Then I worked as a line cook and that changed my perspective on servers (I think they're overpaid relative to the value they provide). Now I vary tips according to service.
-
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.
For the sake of discussion it would probably be more productive to be less dramatic and more factual next time. Now people are gonna think you're just backpedalling.
Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example. However, that means I tip 18% on average. What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing? Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.
Well, my biggest issue with your method (aside from the 0% tip itself, which I disagree with but whatever), is that once you've left nobody knows what they've done wrong and you're the asshole who just didn't leave a tip. It would be more productive for you to speak to a manager or the server themselves and at least let them know what they could fix. That way they (a) have a chance to make it right this time, and (b) know what you expect next time you're in. If you think the service doesn't meet your expectations, but isn't so bad that it warrants speaking to a manager, maybe you could reconsider the binary STELLAR 30% or SHITTY 0% construction that you've set up in your head.
Regarding "making an example", my question to you is what kind of example do you think you're making, and do you think anybody besides you actually gets it?
-
Okay, one more point of clarification: my 25% of the time was more for dramatic discussion effect, I actually leave the tip probably more like 60-75% of the time.
For the sake of discussion it would probably be more productive to be less dramatic and more factual next time. Now people are gonna think you're just backpedalling.
Given that knowledge, I still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example. However, that means I tip 18% on average. What's wrong with tipping the servers who do a better job more, and tipping the servers who do a poor job nothing? Given that things may not be in their control, eventually they'll be part of the majority that does actually receive a tip.
Well, my biggest issue with your method (aside from the 0% tip itself, which I disagree with but whatever), is that once you've left nobody knows what they've done wrong and you're the asshole who just didn't leave a tip. It would be more productive for you to speak to a manager or the server themselves and at least let them know what they could fix. That way they (a) have a chance to make it right this time, and (b) know what you expect next time you're in. If you think the service doesn't meet your expectations, but isn't so bad that it warrants speaking to a manager, maybe you could reconsider the binary STELLAR 30% or SHITTY 0% construction that you've set up in your head.
Regarding "making an example", my question to you is what kind of example do you think you're making, and do you think anybody besides you actually gets it?
Agreed, I've got a penchant for dramatization. Not sure what you mean by making an example, though. My whole philosophy behind tipping is to give a bigger reward to those who appear to have earned it.
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.
-
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:
"Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make BLEEP.
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: BLEEP Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip, huh?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I mean I'll tip if somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth the effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was OK. But she wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue: What's special? BLEEP
Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
Mr. Pink: Look, I ordered coffee, alright? And we been here a long BLEEP time and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee I want it filled six times.
Mr. Blonde: Six times? Well, what if she's too BLEEP busy?
Mr. Pink: The words "too fucking busy" shouldn't be in a waitress' vocabulary.
Nice Guy Eddie: Excuse me Mr. Pink, but the last BLEEP thing you need is another cup of coffee.
Mr. Pink: Jesus Christ I mean, these ladies aren't starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage and when I did I wasn't lucky enough to have a job the society deemed tipworthy.
Mr. Blue: You don't care if they're counting on your tips to live?
Mr. Pink: [rubbing his middle finger and thumb together] You know what this is? The world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.
Mr. White: You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their BLEEP. This is a hard job.
Mr. Pink: So is working at McDonald's, but you don't see anyone tip them, do ya? Why not?, they're serving you food. But no, society says don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here.
Mr. White: Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get, and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.
Mr. Pink: BLEEP all that.
Mr. Brown: Jesus Christ.
Mr. Pink: I mean I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's BLEEP up. That ain't my fault. It would appear to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government BLEEP on a regular basis. If you show me a piece of paper that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college BLEEP you're givin' me, I got two words for that: learn to BLEEP type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big BLEEP' surprise.
Mr. Orange: He's convinced me. Gimme my dollar back!""
My opinion? Tip your servers. If you can't afford to tip stay home.
-
Not sure what you mean by making an example, though.
Misinterpretation of what you were trying to say. I readI still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.
"as an example" as "to make a point", not as "in this hypothetical situation", since I thought we were done being hypothetical and dramatizing.
Also, if you hadn't yet been asked or berated about low tipping, you are now ;-)
-
Not sure what you mean by making an example, though.
Misinterpretation of what you were trying to say. I readI still don't leave a tip at 4/10 trips as an example.
"as an example" as "to make a point", not as "in this hypothetical situation", since I thought we were done being hypothetical and dramatizing.
Also, if you hadn't yet been asked or berated about low tipping, you are now ;-)
Haha I know, right? Nothing wrong with a healthy debate though as long as it stays clean. :-)
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.
The amount of the bill goes to the restaurant.
The IRS assumes a server will be tipped at least 8% so that's a bottom end of their sales that they have to declare as income. I assume the restaurant has to report per-server sales to IRS. (I'm just assuming that honobob got the % right.)
Although you give your server a tip, in many restaurants they in turn take that tip and split it up, often according to a formula based on their sales rather than their actual tips, and give some to the bus staff, the bartender, possibly some to the host, etc. If it's a fancy place I assume some to the sommelier if you bought wine.
So if you stiff them on a tip, they're paying out a percentage of your bill to a bunch of other people anyway and paying taxes on tip they didn't get.
-
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:
haha, I was waiting for that
-
In honor of this occasion allow me to quote from one of my favorite movies:
haha, I was waiting for that
Hahaha! Actually the second time today I have quoted that scene.
-
As a former waitress, if someone left me no tip and it wasn't due to some horrible thing I'd done, you can bet I'd refuse to wait on them a second time. Why waste my time on you when I can help someone else instead that WILL leave a decent tip?
-
I've never worked as a waiter so I can't speak from experience, but I think people should tip if you go to a restaurant. I don't know so making any assumptions would be unfair, so let's just say that absent any other information I would not hang out with anyone that I knew to not tip unless the service was exceptional. The few people I have known that act like that are people that believe a dollar is a decent tip, and that the waitress must give exceptional service to get that.
If the service was terrible, I would talk to the server or the manager, but then again I am don't mind confrontation. To me, walking out without tipping due to some problem is akin to cowardess.
If you are honstly asking if it is common to be confronted when not leaving a tip, then I think you have your priorities in the wrong order. My question would be, why is the case that you are not leaving a tip? If you are going to the restaurants that give you such abysmal service, why do you keep going there? Could it be that your standards of service are way too lofty? I've been restaurants where the waitress would come by without a smile, take your order, bring you your food, and then disappear until the bill and that still deserves a tip (this is what I expect when I walk into a Denny, if this were Morton's I would complain).
-
This reminds me: One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer. It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).
I paid with my card, and it had a line for tips -- I put 0.00 (I think that line is super awkward).
The girl said "thank you... sooo much". Her voice wasn't exactly dripping with irony, but at the same time I can't imagine it was meant any other way.
Anyways, that's the most I've ever been berated. I'm still not sure if it was intended as such, but again, she makes at least $10.75 + health benefits, so I'm not super worried about keeping her in clove cigarettes and ponytail scrunchies.
-
This reminds me: One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer. It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).
Yeah, I never have any idea what to do for situations like this, or when you get takeout at Chinese restaurants. I have no idea of whether it is considered normal to tip in these situations but I usually do. Sadly, this isn't altruism for me, but rather that the places I get takeout from the same places and they remember me and I suspect my food is slightly better.
-
This reminds me: One time I went to my local pizza place and ordered a slice and a beer. It's counter service only, but the effort required was put the slice on the plate and pour the beer (i.e. no more work than a McDonalds cashier).
Yeah, I never have any idea what to do for situations like this, or when you get takeout at Chinese restaurants. I have no idea of whether it is considered normal to tip in these situations but I usually do. Sadly, this isn't altruism for me, but rather that the places I get takeout from the same places and they remember me and I suspect my food is slightly better.
I'd probably tip for takeout, especially as a regular. Case by case, but probably someone had to take your call, box the order, take payment, etc. If that person is a waiter, then it takes them away from their tables. I think 5-10% is good.
-
As someone from the UK this sounds very strange. Over here it's 10% for good / great service and nothing for poor service. A few years back I was a waiter at £4 an hour, which was about $6 at the time. On an average day I got $10 of tips from an 8 hour shift...
Even with no tips it was better than most shop jobs that a young person could get
, so no tips wasn't the end of the world...
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.
yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.
Servers almost or literally never pay the restaurant part of their tips for the privilege of being an employee. I've never heard of it. Sometimes servers pool tips - so everyone chips in a part of their tips and it's redistributed evenly among all the servers, and income is less volatile - but I don't think it's ever the case that they pay money to the restaurant on a per-table basis.
-
one problem is many believe the minimum wage for wait-staff is the same minimum wage for non-server jobs.
McDonalds workers don't get tips; McDonalds workers don't come to your table, refill your glass unless you get up & walk to the counter, bring you condiments, clean the table, tell you something may be off,or take time to give you directions to various sites. They may also serve you lukewarm food because it's been sitting too long
Bar tenders and wine stewards or generally tipped separately from wait-staff
Tips for picking up a carry out/take out are almost never expected as you're not getting table service. If you want, you can throw a couple coins into the tip bucket.
The hostess is not tipped. The maitre-d usually is unless you want a table next to the dishwasher.
-
From my own experience working as a server at Outback, when I clocked out at the end of the night, the computer would automatically assign 10% of my cash sales as tips. Realistically, I usually made more than 10% on average on cash sales, but if you made less, I think you had to have a manager verify that & override the entry. There is something called "allocated tips" which can show up on a W-2 for a tipped employee if the reported tips do not seem to be sufficient, but I can't find any sources on how those amounts are calculated or at what thresholds.
BUT it is 100% true that at almost any restaurant above the most minimum, cheap place, servers tip out on SALES to busboys, bar tenders, bar backs, and sometimes host/hostesses. At Outback, I believe we tipped out something around 3%? But I can't exactly remember. I remember complaining when someone left a shitty tip on a $50 or $100 meal that you had paid $5 or $10 to wait the table, but I think we were doing shitty math. On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry), our manager could do some sort of override so they didn't have to tip out on that bill, but I only remember it happening maybe once or twice.
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing. I usually leave about 10% for lousy service on rare occasion, and otherwise pretty much stick to 20% 99.9% of the time. Serving is hard work and usually for no benefits BUT I personally was a pretty mediocre waitress in a small town, at a not terribly expensive restaurant, and the truth is I made about $15/hour on average. I don't really buy the whole servers are grossly underpaid, we should tip 30%, 40%, blah blah blah for exceptional service, but I do leave an extra tip every once in a while just to be a nice human being.
-
Do you know of any server spitting in the food because the customer is a known jerk?
-
The IRS has a program for restaurants to report tip income as a % of sales, so that is probably what honobob is referring to: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Voluntary-Compliance-Agreements-Restaurant-Tax-Tips
Having a "tip out" is a common practice in restaurants. I don't have data on it, but when I worked as a server, we were expected to tip out the busboys and other front-of-house staff as a percentage of our sales from our tips. It's enforced through social pressures in the restaurant. I thought this was a fairly well-known practice. Certainly, if something unusual happened in a shift, that might give you an excuse not to fully tip out as usual, but one table stiffing you wouldn't be cause.
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
-
Do you know of any server spitting in the food because the customer is a known jerk?
No.
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.
-
The IRS has a program for restaurants to report tip income as a % of sales, so that is probably what honobob is referring to: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Voluntary-Compliance-Agreements-Restaurant-Tax-Tips
Having a "tip out" is a common practice in restaurants. I don't have data on it, but when I worked as a server, we were expected to tip out the busboys and other front-of-house staff as a percentage of our sales from our tips. It's enforced through social pressures in the restaurant. I thought this was a fairly well-known practice. Certainly, if something unusual happened in a shift, that might give you an excuse not to fully tip out as usual, but one table stiffing you wouldn't be cause.
At Outback, we didn't even do it manually. The computer just calculated it all & took it out of your check, then allocated it to all the other front of the house employees based on some complicated calculation of hourly sales and what not, so there wasn't even an option to not do so.
-
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way. Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away. To others, that means they're being rushed out. Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal. If not, the waitstaff was absentee. But for others, that many times would be overbearing. It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.
How about the converse? Say I leave a 30% tip (it happens). Does the waiter pat himself on the back for a job well done or just assume I'm some kind of magnanimous fat-cat?
-
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way. Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away. To others, that means they're being rushed out. Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal. If not, the waitstaff was absentee. But for others, that many times would be overbearing. It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.
I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table. But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.
-
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.
When I got good tips (I was not a waiter but did fast food), I tended to remember that customer and be more responsive when they returned. Mind, I do good customer service anyway, but I remember thinking, "Man, it's nice to be appreciated!" So it probably helps more on places you go back to than on the initial trips.
I seem to remember my sister (former waitress) saying something about certain customers and how the hope was they'd sit in certain sections because they left good tips.
-
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.
When I got good tips (I was not a waiter but did fast food), I tended to remember that customer and be more responsive when they returned. Mind, I do good customer service anyway, but I remember thinking, "Man, it's nice to be appreciated!" So it probably helps more on places you go back to than on the initial trips.
I seem to remember my sister (former waitress) saying something about certain customers and how the hope was they'd sit in certain sections because they left good tips.
I don't eat anywhere regularly enough that I recognize a server. And I don't really care if a server views me as a stingy bastard or a generous dude. I typically tip as a reward for good service but if it's not seen as such I am seriously questioning why I should do it.
I'd still probably tip enough to not screw the server with negative tipping out or the Irs, but a constant 10% is sounding more reasonable.
Then again I'm mostly talk and will probably just keep doing what I've been doing
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.
How about the converse? Say I leave a 30% tip (it happens). Does the waiter pat himself on the back for a job well done or just assume I'm some kind of magnanimous fat-cat?
Probably a little bit of both, but more towards the you're just a nice person unless you specifically did something above & beyond for the person.
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
My rule is if the tip is going to be less that 10% I HAVE to talk to the manager. Believe me if the service is THAT bad I WILL talk to the manager but generally I figure tips of 10% will drive out the people that don't have the skills to be a server.
How would you like to just be fired from your job without a performance review first? That's basically what you are doing.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
Google "tip allocation". Back in the old days when it started, early 80's?, restaurants were required to take total sales and divide each servers hours into this and then allocate 8% to each server. It may have been increased since.
-
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips
You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.
Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.
Lower rate. You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html
-
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way. Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away. To others, that means they're being rushed out. Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal. If not, the waitstaff was absentee. But for others, that many times would be overbearing. It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.
I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table. But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.
I think that's not true at all. A good tip almost universally means that there was good service and does serve as positive reinforcement. I'm just questioning how much a bad tip serves as negative reinforcement, because good service can still result in a bad tip.
-
I don't eat anywhere regularly enough that I recognize a server. And I don't really care if a server views me as a stingy bastard or a generous dude. I typically tip as a reward for good service but if it's not seen as such I am seriously questioning why I should do it.
I think it's more of a self-serving bias thing--where a person assumes you recognize they are awesome when you tip, but don't connect that with "I did a crappy job" when you don't. Because, of course, all of us do amazing jobs all the time.
Googling to find a good study on this gave me nothing (just ones on "do tips really work?"), so it's worth what much of the internet is worth--zero.
-
I've never heard anyone suggest wait service was "a rung above" minimum wage work. I've certainly never thought it. It's pretty darn miserable work, if you ask me (which of course you didn't).
Food service done right requires a VERY high skill level. You are doing your job with many moving parts NOT under your control. I have managed restaurants and was a server bartender once for about 6 months when I wanted to be between management jobs. Once I had a regular customer that got bought/put out of business by a large corporation that needed an income and wanted to be a server. My company had a 5 day training program for experienced servers. I wanted to help out a regular customer and thought MAYBE their customer service experience would translate as usually I would never hire an inexperienced person NO MATTER HOW SMART THEY WERE. She did well as far as knowing food service standards and the menu but could NOT manage her time. Smart woman that failed miserably. She bailed quickly and stayed a regular customer with a much greater appreciation for the servers. She was astounded how difficult it was.
Now I just got back from Wolfgangs Waikiki steakhouse (not Puck). My Realtor took me there so I didn't pay. $10.00 hamburgers and $35.00 steak at lunch. Waiter never checked back and the last 30 minutes were spent trying to get the check. We'd already been there 90 minutes. The place was packed, at 2:00pm , were we all waiting for our checks? It seemed that the place was understaffed and I discussed with my Realtor, who was upset that it was making her look bad, that if the place was consistently packed but understaffed it was management fault. In this day and age with cell phones it should NOT be that hard to get an off duty person in to cover a last minute call in sick. Not sure what she tipped but it is the restaurant that will suffer when she doesn't bring in clients in the future. where was the manager?
I think it was dragoncar that mentioned the "look" for service. It's boggles me when I cannot get eye contact. On the other side back in the day an experienced manager taught me how to make a table leave. On the weekends it was "turn em and burn em". We make more money on a new entrée than a dessert. So she taught me how to "encourage" a table to leave without them thinking we wanted to get rid of them.
-
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
You're assuming that everyone judges good service in the same way. Above, the OP talks about wanting the check right away. To others, that means they're being rushed out. Some people liked to be checked on 4 times during their meal. If not, the waitstaff was absentee. But for others, that many times would be overbearing. It's such a guessing game, that my guess upon receiving a poor tip would be that the tipper was an asshole, not that I should start practicing ESP.
I don't need a waiter to come over and ask how I'm doing, or sprint the check to my table. But if I'm staring you down for 15 min to let you know I want the check, and you don't even glance at me to attempt eye contact, that's a demerit.
It sounds like my tip has absolutely no effect as a measure of service, which makes me inclined to tip less in general.
I agree half-way... your tip alone is not really a measure of service, but a server's monthly/weekly average tip % could be. If they're really good and have an average 22% tip, for example, if you come in and tip 10% without saying anything yeah they'll think you're a shitty tipper and not think twice about it. But if another server gets and average maybe 16% tip, they might look to the better-tipped server and see what they could do better. Still though, if the average 16% server gets one lonely 7% tip, that person's a bad tipper, or one individual 25% tip would just be a good tipper.
If the good server got 4 5% tips in a row I bet they would reconsider how well they're doing, because it's pretty clearly not a product of the normal distribution of good/bad tippers at that point.
Your tip reflects the level of service in the way it affects the server's average tip.
-
Ummm, don't we eat at home?
Is this whole thread relevant?
-
Ummm, don't we eat at home?
Is this whole thread relevant?
We eat at home except when we don't. :-)
-
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips
You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.
Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.
Lower rate. You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* REEL LIFE! No one reports MORE than 8% of their sales! SO, if only one person is reporting less than 8% because you stiffed them then the govmint is gonna ask for their MONEY. Can't we talk about the corporate welfare and leave the fucking Studio 54 staff that were making thousands a nite alone while the average good server is making a fair living because they have skills far beyond the average mortal?
Hi, my name is honobob, I'll be your poster today.
-
We eat at home except when we don't. :-)
Oh I see, part of the frugal game. I'm just not playing right.
-
That's not what tip allocation is, I did google it.
"Allocation of Tips
You must allocate tips among employees who receive them if the total tips reported to you during any payroll period are less than 8% (or the approved lower rate) of this establishment's gross receipts for that period.
Generally, the amount allocated is the difference between the total tips reported by employees and 8% (or the lower rate) of the gross receipts, other than nonallocable receipts.
Lower rate. You (or a majority of the employees) may request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) by submitting a petition to:
Internal Revenue Service"
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8027/ch01.html
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* REEL LIFE! No one reports MORE than 8% of their sales! SO, if only one person is reporting less than 8% because you stiffed them then the govmint is gonna ask for their MONEY. Can't we talk about the corporate welfare and leave the fucking Studio 54 staff that were making thousands a nite alone while the average good server is making a fair living because they have skills far beyond the average mortal?
But with CC sales becoming more and more common, it's not really an issue as much. If you pay w/a CC and tip $0, I don't think there are allocated tips for that transaction because there is evidence of the $0 tip. It's only if you tip nothing on a cash sale that the server could incur allocated tips. But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
-
We eat at home except when we don't. :-)
Oh I see, part of the frugal game. I'm just not playing right.
Heh. Budget for it if you want to do it, don't if you don't. Or, in our case since we don't budget, plan on doing a little bit of eating out but don't go crazy. And to get back on topic, I figure on tips as part of the cost when planning on doing it a little bit.
-
But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported. But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government. I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales. So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made. Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts. KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.
-
But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported. But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government. I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales. So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made. Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts. KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
-
But honestly, the estimated tips on my cash sales were NEVER ONCE more than what I made and no one I know that waits tables reports their tips truthfully, so I think it'd be a rare occasion that a server was hurt by this.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* I agree that USUALLY your tips are more than what is reported. But that was the DEAL that tipped employees made with their employers that was interfered with by the government. I also worked 24 hour places where the 11-7 people were basically cleaning/stocking people but their 8 hour shift counted as one third of the days sales. So some actually got allocated MORE than they actually made. Their benefit was that they could study from 2-6 when they weren't making money but still they were subsidizing the lunch and dinner shifts. KILL a SERVER, go to IRS heaven.
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
-
I typically will tip 15-20% on a bill, but there have been many times I tipped less. I worked in service industries for years, and you know what? It's not that hard. You smile, be nice to people, wish them well, and perform the service you're paid to. If you're bad, you will get a low tip from me.
That means if you get an order wrong, never fill my glass, don't check in on the meal until I'm done eating, can't answer questions about the menu, or have an attitude if I happen to request a substitution, you can expect 5% or so. If you mis-charge me over the menu price, you can expect that amount to be taken out of your tip. I don't have time to run around fixing your problems -- I come to a restaurant so I DON'T have to deal with kitchen, household bullshit. If they can't handle it, hey, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Edited to add: No, I have never gotten berated. However I rarely return to those places (and rarely eat out anyways).
-
On the question of tips you all might be interested in some data points from a report by Gordon Lafer issued last year by EPI.
1. In 2011, lawmakers in Wyoming introduced a bill that would have allowed restaurants and other employers to force their wait staff to pool their tips. Tips would be redistributed among the non-wait staff, who could then be paid the subminimum wage.
2. That same year, Maine legislators passed a bill declaring that “service charges” were not tips at all. Because they aren’t tips, they don’t belong to the wait staff. Employers can pocket them—without informing customers—and redistribute them to the non-wait staff (or keep them as profit).
Pretty crooked in my view.
http://www.epi.org/publication/attack-on-american-labor-standards/
/Remember if you don't tip you may literally be taking food out of the mouths of the children of your server. There is a difference between frugal and immoral.
//"I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process." - Benjamin Harrison
-
I live in a rural area. Most of the places we go are the kind of places you might be told to go grab your own damn food if it gets too busy (in a pleasant, "where everybody knows your name" kind of way). We tip well because the service is friendly if not good.... or because the place is having a bad night and we're sympathetic.
The couple times I've been somewhere "new" with service so bad (attitude) that I wouldn't want to tip, we left before ordering anything. I've never been hungry enough to stick around, get treated like crap, and withhold a tip to make a point.
-
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
I didn't get it either.
Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".
Probably for the best, eh?
-
I just remembered something. I was talking to the bartender at a hotel bar in Vegas, off the strip, that has a lot of European guests (mostly German according to the bartender). I asked her about tipping as that isn't common in many countries in Europe and she said that they are allowed to automatically add a tip to the bill, but will waive it if the person requests it. This wasn't done to my bill, and of course I tipped, nor to anyone that I knew but she said that she would do it to the German patrons and almost never did they bat an eye at paying it. I don't know if this is done in all bars or if this is something allowed in Vegas. My impression is that for the Germans they are ok with paying for the tip, and wouldn't if it wasn't part of the bill because this isn't something they do back at home. Btw, from what little I know the European guests at the hotel were almost all tourists, not business travelers who I am assuming would know about tipping.
-
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)
If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607
-
Also, I remember seeing this some time ago and want to share it with you. This made me laugh when I saw it, and I hope you all will enjoy it as well.
http://imgur.com/7CGWk
-
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
I didn't get it either.
Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".
Probably for the best, eh?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* Yeah, so am I the only guy here that likes p*ssywomen? Can I ask that? Is that too badass? Move along, nothing to see here.wom
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.
No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.
Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.
Now here's the problem:
1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.
While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.
That is where the 8% figure comes from.
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
Honobob, can you show me the source for that? I've never seen that before.
He made that part up. They don't.
No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.
Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.
Now here's the problem:
1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.
While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.
That is where the 8% figure comes from.
The allocated tips must also be reported on each employee's W-2 form; however, you do not actually pay or withhold taxes on the allocated amounts. They are reported to the IRS for informational purposes only.
http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/sbg/tax-info/payroll-taxes/payroll-tax-obligations-for-tipped-employees.aspx
-
I am extremely frugal!! I don't often go out to eat, but if I do I make sure I can afford to tip 15% if the service was excellent. I have been in the service industry and waitresses have to make a living too. If the service was terrible than I completely agree with leaving minimal to no tip, but waitresses make about $3/hr, they live on tips. Go to McD's if you want to save money!!
-
frugally, you are actually costing the server money. They have to declare 8% of your bill for income tax purposes. Also she probably tips out to the busperson and bartender and it is usually based on sales. So server frugally you sold $800 in food and drinks and your fair share to your support staff is expected on that.
yeah can we have an explanation on this please. sounds like the server takes and keeps all money from their area then has to give the restaurant a certain amount for each meal served and declare the rest for tax purposes. this seems rather odd but i'm in Europe and have never been to America so have no idea.
ok. thanks, that kind of makes sense.
here in the uk, i always make sure to tip cash to the person who served rather than adding it to the card bill or whatever because sometimes card tips just get put in a joint pool and i want to know it's going to the person who actually helped me.
The amount of the bill goes to the restaurant.
The IRS assumes a server will be tipped at least 8% so that's a bottom end of their sales that they have to declare as income. I assume the restaurant has to report per-server sales to IRS. (I'm just assuming that honobob got the % right.)
Although you give your server a tip, in many restaurants they in turn take that tip and split it up, often according to a formula based on their sales rather than their actual tips, and give some to the bus staff, the bartender, possibly some to the host, etc. If it's a fancy place I assume some to the sommelier if you bought wine.
So if you stiff them on a tip, they're paying out a percentage of your bill to a bunch of other people anyway and paying taxes on tip they didn't get.
-
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)
If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607
No I'm referring to something that happened at the restaurant I worked at while I was there one night which didn't make the news.
-
No, he didn't make it up: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html
If the total tips reported by all employees at your large food or beverage establishment are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (or a lower rate approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee's share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. You are required to report the amount allocated on Form W-2 in the box labeled "Allocated Tips" for each employee to whom tips were allocated. Penalties may be imposed for both failing to file and failing to furnish a correct Form W-2 for each form on which you fail to include this required information. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips, since these amounts have not been reported to you by your employee.
Whether or not you are required to allocate tips, your employees must continue to report all tips to you, and you must use the amounts they report to figure payroll taxes.
Now here's the problem:
1. By IRS policy, servers must report ALL TIPS.
2. By IRS policy, if reported ups for workers at a specific establishment fall below 8% of gross guest check receipts, then what I quoted above applies.
While many servers do report their true, full tip amount, many restaurant owners just insist that servers report 8% of their gross guest check receipts to avoid complications with the IRS.
That is where the 8% figure comes from.
You know I linked an equivalent IRS reference already right? "At large food or beverage establishments directly tipped workers must report the difference between gross tip receipts and 8% of sales if gross tip receipts are less than 8% but do not have anything withheld" is much different than "Your server has to declare 8% of your bill as income".
-
Some stupid writting... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-tipped-workers-dont-need-a-raise-2014-02-13?link=kiosk
-
On very rare occassions if someone was truly a gigantic asshole & didn't leave a tip (like the guy who called a gay waitresses a faggot and made her cry)
If you are referring to the story that came out of New Jersey, it appears that it was a hoax. After hearing the news the couple reported that they left no such note and left a tip and have provided their receipt. My guess is that does indeed happen as people can be dicks, and should not in any way be encouraged, this act would be deplorable behavior.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/waitress-behind-anti-gay-receipt-dishonorable-marines-discharge-report-article-1.1531607
No I'm referring to something that happened at the restaurant I worked at while I was there one night which didn't make the news.
That's terrible, I'm very sorry that this happened to your colleague.
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
If you can't afford to leave a normal tip for normal service, you can't afford to eat out.
-
All these tipping stories of the servers being under tipped is really interesting to me. We never hear about the dirty little secrets of the servers under tipping their support staff like the bus boys.
I was the only bus boy at a high end hotel restaurant that was always busy on the weekends. There was one server that was ready to retire in a year or so but I suspected she was under tipping me. So I checked her credit card receipts at the hotel front desk and confirmed she was under tipping me. I stopped busing her tables. I really had a good laugh watching her bus the table and bring the heavy tray down the 50 foot ramp into the kitchen. I loved it when she bitched at me. I hope she learned her lesson.
-
Serving is hard work for low pay no matter how you slice it. A lot of customers are difficult, making it that much worse. I once saw a man dump a milkshake on a waitresses head because it was the wrong flavor, and one time a guy in a drive thru, threw a hot coffee in the window at me. I was a manager at the time, and trying to help out the servers who had gotten behind due to volume. When he called back later to complain about receiving the wrong coffee, I thanked him for letting me know about the bad service, and let him know that if he would like to come back, I would be happy to let the police sort out his assault on my worker (didn't tell him it was me). He hung up abruptly and didn't return.
What the average customer may not see, is that in both cases, the workers needed to immediately put on a smile as if nothing bad had happened, and wait on the next customer, because clearly what just happened was not their fault. Have a little grace with people. It's a tough job. And if you're leaving 0% without complaining to the manager, it's just a dick move. The manager is not the nuclear option. That is what they are there for.
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
It isn't?
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.
No, I think it's because they think if you were dissatisfied with something, you would have told them (so that they could fix the problem) or the manager (ditto). Therefore, if you acted perfectly fine throughout the meal, seemed to like your food but left a shitty tip, the natural conclusion is that you're a shitty tipper.
I mean, think about it this way: Does it make ANY sense to act fine, say nothing, and leave a shitty tip? You're basically assuming that the server will be able to guess which of her many actions or inactions, or which aspects of the food or the presentation, bothered you. Apart from being completely passive-aggressive, as a method of making someone improve, that is just idiotic. If you were trying to train your dog not to shit in the house, would you just go through your entire day, watch him shit in the house, say nothing, and then swat him with a newspaper three hours later?
You can't cultivate better service by NOT telling people what was wrong with their service. That simply doesn't work. Therefore, if you don't tell them what's wrong, but simply eat your food and seem fine and then leave a shitty tip, the conclusion is you're an asshole--either because you're a shitty tipper, or because you must have been displeased with something but were too wimpy and passive-aggressive to let them know, or a mix of both.
-
All these tipping stories of the servers being under tipped is really interesting to me. We never hear about the dirty little secrets of the servers under tipping their support staff like the bus boys.
Where I worked, we didn't have bussers (we bussed our own tables), but we did have to tip out the kitchen and the bartender. When the owner gave us our money at the end of the night, he kept 1% of our sales for the kitchen, 1% for the bar. It really pissed me off when we didn't HAVE a bartender, and the owner himself was bartending, and he'd still take some of our tips for himself.
Of course, everything about the place was dodgy and illegal. The kitchen staff was well-paid, but all under the table, and the wait staff wasn't paid at all.
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com
To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:
"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com
To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:
"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"
Please let's not be morons, Russ. There's a world of difference there--$100k is almost seven times $14,500. If you have achieved FI and own your own home free and clear, sure, $14,500 can be enough to live on. But would anyone here seriously ever recommend to another Mustachian who has NOT yet achieved FI that they should work 40 hrs/week for $14,500/year? Of course not--because for those who don't yet have a house free and clear it's an absolutely terrible amount of money, barely subsistence level in most of the USA.
-
Please let's not be morons, Russ. There's a world of difference there--$100k is almost seven times $14,500. If you have achieved FI and own your own home free and clear, sure, $14,500 can be enough to live on. But would anyone here seriously ever recommend to another Mustachian who has NOT yet achieved FI that they should work 40 hrs/week for $14,500/year? Of course not--because for those who don't yet have a house free and clear it's an absolutely terrible amount of money, barely subsistence level in most of the USA.
I normally wouldn't recommend it because there are hundreds of better-paying options for anyone with an iota of skills/experience. That doesn't mean it's not enough to live on.
This is also independent of any discussion of whether minimum wage is a fair wage or not, which I'm decidedly undecided on.
-
Interesting comments. :)
To me, it's different because I live in a state where wait staff make $7.25/hour base. Therefore, I think a tip is completely unnecessary to achieve a living wage.
Oh, in your state a living wage is $14,500/year?! Uh, no... no it's not.
Thanks you for signing up for DCUrbanMom.com
To complete your registration, please complete the following sentence:
"Anything less than $100k/year is not a ______ wage"
LOL, I had to check to make sure I was on the correct website for a second there
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
Because it's easier to assume that the customer is an asshole than that you made a mistake I guess. I never really understood it.
No, I think it's because they think if you were dissatisfied with something, you would have told them (so that they could fix the problem) or the manager (ditto). Therefore, if you acted perfectly fine throughout the meal, seemed to like your food but left a shitty tip, the natural conclusion is that you're a shitty tipper.
I mean, think about it this way: Does it make ANY sense to act fine, say nothing, and leave a shitty tip? You're basically assuming that the server will be able to guess which of her many actions or inactions, or which aspects of the food or the presentation, bothered you. Apart from being completely passive-aggressive, as a method of making someone improve, that is just idiotic. If you were trying to train your dog not to shit in the house, would you just go through your entire day, watch him shit in the house, say nothing, and then swat him with a newspaper three hours later?
You can't cultivate better service by NOT telling people what was wrong with their service. That simply doesn't work. Therefore, if you don't tell them what's wrong, but simply eat your food and seem fine and then leave a shitty tip, the conclusion is you're an asshole--either because you're a shitty tipper, or because you must have been displeased with something but were too wimpy and passive-aggressive to let them know, or a mix of both.
Ok, from now on I'll be a "manly man" and when my waiter fucks up, I'll tell him to go get the manager and bend over for a spanking. Honestly, I don't reduce my tips for ephemeral bullshit like "didn't like your shirt." If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything. You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right? If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.
-
If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything. You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right? If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.
If you feel you can justify being a passive-aggressive cheapskate who makes about 1 in every 4 waiters think he's an a-hole, be my guest. I'm not going to stop you, although if I knew you and saw you pull that, I'd never go to a restaurant with you again. The choice is yours to make, although as you've noticed, your approach is not even remotely admired (to put it nicely) by your fellow Mustachians on this thread.
-
If you can't figure out what went wrong, then you are so far gone a helpful note isn't going to solve anything. You were paying attention to the quality of your service every step of the way, right? If not, then that's probably why the service sucked.
If you feel you can justify being a passive-aggressive cheapskate who makes about 1 in every 4 waiters think he's an a-hole, be my guest. I'm not going to stop you, although if I knew you and saw you pull that, I'd never go to a restaurant with you again. The choice is yours to make, although as you've noticed, your approach is not even remotely admired (to put it nicely) by your fellow Mustachians on this thread.
I'm not tipping for poor service either way. That doesn't make me a cheapskate does it? You have a problem with my lack of additional communication (which has nothing to do with being a cheapskate).
According to my fellow mustachians, 19/20 waiters probably think I'm a super generous dude because I tip pretty well when I get good service, which is the vast majority of the time.
I don't really care what the 1/20 thinks. He should probably thank me for not complaining to management, but you do have me reconsidering that. I would assume that complaints reflect poorly on the server but maybe I'm wrong?
Ps. You keep saying I'm passive aggressive. But frankly the alternative you suggest is simply aggressive. I imagine that most people don't want to be told outright that they are bad at their job, and would prefer a more subtle hint. But that's just me as an introvert. I would be mortified if a client complained to my boss.
-
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards. I've only ever had one server who did a bad enough job that I purposely left a BAD tip (and if you leave no tip, chances are the server won't get it, and will just think you're cheap). That server did about every possible bad thing - took our order, forgot about us for an hour, never put the order in, took our order again, got it WRONG, spilled our beverages on the table and didn't clean it up, and ignored us the rest of the meal. That's reserved for the you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me bad.
Even then, I wouldn't speak to a manager about it. Anybody can have a shit day, and for all I know, her dog just got ran over 5 minutes before her shift and she just found out she has cancer, and who knows what. But I'm not going to reward her for a job that badly done. If it's repeated behavior, or something REALLY inexcusable, deliberate, like calls us a bad word, or something, that's when I'd say something to the manager.
CLEARLY with the lack of agreement you're getting here, the general public does not share your "standards of acceptable service" so if you want your waiter to refill your water glass every time it gets to 3/4 full, by all means, say so at the beginning of the meal. And honestly, if someone had said to me at the beginning of the meal, "I expect x, y, and z from you" maybe I'd have thought they were a nut, but I'd have DONE it.
If you're in a hurry, ask for the check to be brought to you with the food, so you can pay, and leave when you're ready. Not knowing you were in a hurry is no excuse for the waitstaff to take forever in getting you your check, but if you want it fast, just say so. Save yourself some trouble. Stuff like that, some of it's on you, the customer.
-
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards. I've only ever had one server who did a bad enough job that I purposely left a BAD tip (and if you leave no tip, chances are the server won't get it, and will just think you're cheap). That server did about every possible bad thing - took our order, forgot about us for an hour, never put the order in, took our order again, got it WRONG, spilled our beverages on the table and didn't clean it up, and ignored us the rest of the meal. That's reserved for the you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me bad.
Even then, I wouldn't speak to a manager about it. Anybody can have a shit day, and for all I know, her dog just got ran over 5 minutes before her shift and she just found out she has cancer, and who knows what. But I'm not going to reward her for a job that badly done. If it's repeated behavior, or something REALLY inexcusable, deliberate, like calls us a bad word, or something, that's when I'd say something to the manager.
CLEARLY with the lack of agreement you're getting here, the general public does not share your "standards of acceptable service" so if you want your waiter to refill your water glass every time it gets to 3/4 full, by all means, say so at the beginning of the meal. And honestly, if someone had said to me at the beginning of the meal, "I expect x, y, and z from you" maybe I'd have thought they were a nut, but I'd have DONE it.
If you're in a hurry, ask for the check to be brought to you with the food, so you can pay, and leave when you're ready. Not knowing you were in a hurry is no excuse for the waitstaff to take forever in getting you your check, but if you want it fast, just say so. Save yourself some trouble. Stuff like that, some of it's on you, the customer.
Are you talking to me? If so, how often do you think I get bad service (my estimate of 1/20 was just a random guess - the point was its rare). To which "standards" are you referring, as I never said anything about a 3/4 full glass? You seem to think I'm incredibly demanding, yet the expectations you mention are pretty much the same as mine (I shouldn't wait forever for the check, nor be neglected for an hour, etc.). Also, please stay on point with the mob - you say don't tell the manager but others are telling me to complain. Which is it?
-
tell the manager if the food itself is bad. Bad food is rarely the server's fault, and the manager does need to know about it
-
Honobob:
How do you increase table turnover when quite busy? One way may be not to say 'Would you like to see the dessert menu', but what are other effective ways that still leave the guests happy?
-
I was addressing the OP.
But no, *I* wouldn't escalate to "taking it to the manager" for run of the mill bad service, the first time. If the server was doing something that I didn't like (or not doing something I did want), I'd say something to the server. If they brought me the wrong food, I'd say so. If I asked for two sour creams on the side, and they brought me one, I'd say excuse me, could I please get the second sour cream I asked for? If she forgot to bring the salads before the main course came out, I'd point it out. You're almost always going to get an apology and they'll fix it, either bring your salads now, or deduct them from the bill, as you choose. Humans make mistakes, and a willingness to fix them when they're made is what matters to me. I'm not going to say the service was terrible if the waiter failed to notice a mistake was made, and I chose not to point it out. It's only terrible if I DO point it out, and they don't apologize and fix it.
It would take multiple poor experiences with the same server for me to have to inform the manager that such-and-such server just isn't good at her job.
-
Honobob:
How do you increase table turnover when quite busy? One way may be not to say 'Would you like to see the dessert menu', but what are other effective ways that still leave the guests happy?
One way that I was taught to increase table turnover is to always clear empty glasses and plates promptly. This speeds up the next course, and guests are less likely to linger at the end of a meal if the dishes have been removed. You always offer dessert to increase your sales, just make sure to remove the dessert plates as soon as the guest is finished.
Related to that, I was taught to make sure glasses were never left empty; i.e., always offer a refill for waters/soda, and ask the patron if they would like another drink if refills don't apply (juice, wine & beer, etc). It's good service and can increase your sales, thus your tips.
-
The poster seems to be overly fussy to me. I always tip 20% unless the service is horrible & then 10%. It is a tough job and they do not make much $. If my check is small because the food is cheap I leave a minimum of $3.00.
-
My two cents:
- I don't go out to eat much at all. When I do, it's to places like Subway where I can choose my ingredients or Corner Bakery, for example, where I can look up their nutritional info online. I also much prefer restaurants where I can order and eat without having to be waited on by a server.
- If I happen to go to a restaurant where there is a wait staff, I don't necessarily expect the person to read my mind. I do expect them to be reasonably available though. If I'm waiting 10-minutes for the check and I haven't seen the server come by my table for the last 30-minutes and I can see him/her in the back BS-ing with the other wait staff, that is very frustrating and makes me rethink why I frequent a restaurant at all.
I'm betting that if I left a 10% tip after poor service like that the server would just assume I was cheap. It wouldn't surprise me if many servers (and I was one back in the day) think they just have to show up to work and that deserves a 25% gratuity.
Anyway.
-
That attitude didn't describe me or any of my coworkers.
-
That attitude didn't describe me or any of my coworkers.
(http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/thumbup.gif)
-
Here's the same question, phrased another way:
If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?
Just curious. :)
-
Here's the same question, phrased another way:
If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?
Just curious. :)
0.6*0.3 = 18%
1.0 * 0.15 = 15%
So I choose 18% average.
-
Here's the same question, phrased another way:
If YOU (not specifically directed at anyone in particular) were the server, knowing yourself, your attention to detail and your work ethic, would you rather have a 60% chance at a 30% tip based on how well you did, or a 100% chance of a 15% tip?
Just curious. :)
Based on probability, 18% is greater than 15%, but I would choose 15% because I wouldn't be a very good server.
60% of the time, it works every time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M
-
Here's the same question, phrased another way:
Irrelevant, and not the same question.
Again, people don't disagree with occasional 30% tips or an 18% or 15% average. They disagree with a 0% tip for anything less than perfect service, the details of which your server is supposed to somehow ESP out of you.
Of course 18% is greater than 15%. Thank you for constructing this very clever example.
-
Here's the same question, phrased another way:
Irrelevant, and not the same question.
Again, people don't disagree with occasional 30% tips or an 18% or 15% average. They disagree with a 0% tip for anything less than perfect service, the details of which your server is supposed to somehow ESP out of you.
Of course 18% is greater than 15%. Thank you for constructing this very clever example.
True, it's not the same question as the original topic. I more meant that as a, "since we seem to be on a similar topic anyway, let me throw this out there."
-
I think tipping is ridiculous. I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country. Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.
That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee. Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
-
I think tipping is ridiculous. I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country. Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.
That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee. Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.
-
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
^Is this a reference to something that I'm missing?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH*
I didn't get it either.
Google says RHOBH is "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".
Probably for the best, eh?
"Are you fucking kidding me?"* Brandi, RHOBH* Yeah, so am I the only guy here that likes p*ssywomen? Can I ask that? Is that too badass? Move along, nothing to see here.wom
Not badass, just homophobic and sexist. And probably the real reason your server wouldn't make eye contact with you in your complaint above.
Here's irony: My gay brother watches Real Housewives, so that refutes your completely illogical comment.
But what do I know? I am just a pussy.
-
I'm just gonna leave this here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/opinion/bittman-a-valentine-for-restaurant-workers.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20140214&_r=0
-
To answer the original question, no. Because I don't give small tips.
-
I think tipping is ridiculous. I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country. Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.
That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee. Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.
Went there last oktober. Had a wonderful waitress who was kind, friendly, good at her job as well. We actually did tip her 5€ for her excellent service. Just like everywhere you have exceptions on both sides. In general in Europe I've always been served nicely. A few occasions of rubbish waiters, but that exists as well in the US. Good service shouldn't depend on a system where you get payed close to nothing and can only survive on tips.
The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit. Here in Belgium we pay a rather decent wage (not gonna say it's the best paying job but you can easily live off it) for waiters. We only tip if the service was excellent.
That being said, when I go to the UK or US, I do tip the local amount since it's the culture there :)
-
I think tipping is ridiculous. I can't understand why we still use such a silly system in this country. Most civilized countries pay servers a real wage and the cost of their salary is included in the cost of the meal.
That said, as long as the USA uses the moronic "tip" system, you should tip and not look for excuses to screw over a low wage employee. Tip the 15% and be done with it unless the wait person does something really egregious.
Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible.
Went there last oktober. Had a wonderful waitress who was kind, friendly, good at her job as well. We actually did tip her 5€ for her excellent service. Just like everywhere you have exceptions on both sides. In general in Europe I've always been served nicely. A few occasions of rubbish waiters, but that exists as well in the US. Good service shouldn't depend on a system where you get payed close to nothing and can only survive on tips.
The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit. Here in Belgium we pay a rather decent wage (not gonna say it's the best paying job but you can easily live off it) for waiters. We only tip if the service was excellent.
That being said, when I go to the UK or US, I do tip the local amount since it's the culture there :)
I've had good experiences abroad as well.
-
...
So are you against bonuses and commission as well?
-
"Have you ever been waited on in Germany? It's terrible."
Not my experience at all. Have eaten out many times in Germany and I would say the service is just as good as in North America.
-
The US system is just so ridiculous. Let the customers pay the difference so the company can pay below minimum wages and get a bigger profit.
Well, all restaurants could decide to increase all their food & drink prices by 20% (and charge you sales tax on it, by the way), and pay their servers a 20% commission. (As if that would really happen...more like they'd increase prices by 20% and give servers a 12% commission, because that's the way the world really works.)
At least you're not paying sales tax on your tip. Here in Iowa, you could be a good tipper, buy a $40 meal, and leave an $8 tip, 6% sales tax, so $50.40. If the cost of your meal was 20% more, you'd pay $50.88 after taxes. In Manhattan, (I think it's 8.875% tax?) it would be $52.26 instead of $51.55. That's assuming no alcohol, I don't know how tax rates change on alcohol.
In DC, there's a 10% tax on prepared food, I believe, so your 20% tip would in essence become 22% over the original price of the meal.
-
I think if you're getting "very poor" service THAT often, there's something wrong with your standards.
I think service quality varies a lot by market and segment. My opinion (based on an employee and customer view): A "good" (not great) restaurant in a major market often has waitstaff that includes many servers who consider themselves above the job, aren't very skilled at it and know there are plenty of other restaurants with significant turnover where they could find work. So I'm not at all sure there's something wrong with the other poster's standards.
-
The reality is, that when a server gets a shitty tip, they just assume you're a shitty tipper. So, if you are dissatisfied with the service you should definitely get a manager or tell them what you're unhappy about. Otherwise, they're just going to be pissed & assume you're an asshole & you've accomplished basically nothing.
Why would that be? They don't consider how their service could have been better? I keep hearing that I should talk to the manager, but I feel like that's the nuclear option.
I've never waited tables, so this is just my intuition speaking, but...
I would imagine that they do not simply because providing hospitality services is a volume-driven enterprise whereas consuming hospitality services is not. A server sees dozens of customers every day, each of whom has their own particular situation going on and may give a good or bad tip for any one of dozens of different reasons, only a couple of which boil down to performance on the server's part. Each customer on the other hand is likely to be having their only restaurant meal that day / week / month.
In other words, for a wait staff who gets a one-off shitty tip it's almost certainly a poor use of their time to dwell on the reasons why since the next paying customer just walked in the door and is expecting service, so they just chalk it up to "that person's an asshat" and drive on. If I'm selling $1,000 items, I care what customers think. If I'm selling Bloomin' Onions for $8.99 I really just want them to eat up and move on. For a waitstaff who is consistently getting shitty tips, it might eventually dawn on them that they suck at waiting on customers, which might achieve the result you are looking for, i.e. either they reflect on how to become a better server or, more likely, they find some other way to make money.