Poll: Who will win the 2020 U.S. Presidential Election?

[GuitarStv]

John Galt has already mentioned several times that he believes liberal judges cannot be trusted, while conservative judges will always do the right thing.  I don't think you're going to get much concern from him about McConnell choosing all future supreme court justices.

[John Galt incarnate!]

In Canada I can either vote in person (on the same day, and at the same time as every other Canadian) at the early voting day, or at the final voting day.  There are sometimes lines - in 20 years of voting I've once had to stand in line for 15 minutes, which was pretty outrageous (usually it's much shorter than that).  If I want to vote by mail you send elections Canada a note saying you want to vote by mail . . . and then that's how you vote from then on.  Your personal address information is automatically updated every time you file taxes, but you can also contact elections Canada to update the information if necessary.

Online voting aside, the voting system in the US is so weird.  There should be one set of standardized rules across the country.  It makes no sense at all that each state votes in a completely different way to a completely different rule set.  Some Americans can vote by mail, some can't.  Every kind of mail in voting is different.  The system is purposely set up to make voting difficult in many places.  Hour plus waits in line are just accepted as the norm by everyone.

That's federalism for you.

I adamantly oppose any encroachment on any of the states' prerogatives under the 10th Amendment.

Not a fan of democracy, eh?

Under the Supremacy Clause there are already federal rules that apply to federal elections.

 All dispersions of power,  including  dispersions of power under federalism are inherently democratic.


During a lecture at a law school in Hawaii Justice Scalia said "it's game over" if a concentration of power ever obtains.   

Kinda like McConnell being able to control which President gets to confirm judges!

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically elected minorities.

[bacchi]

John Galt has already mentioned several times that he believes liberal judges cannot be trusted, while conservative judges will always do the right thing.  I don't think you're going to get much concern from him about McConnell choosing all future supreme court justices.

At this point, it will be ALL federal judges that McConnell will refuse to confirm.

[bacchi]

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically minorities.

So...you'd be ok with packing the court?

Packing the court is, after all, perfectly Constitutional and the right of the majority House+Senate.

[JLee]

In Canada I can either vote in person (on the same day, and at the same time as every other Canadian) at the early voting day, or at the final voting day.  There are sometimes lines - in 20 years of voting I've once had to stand in line for 15 minutes, which was pretty outrageous (usually it's much shorter than that).  If I want to vote by mail you send elections Canada a note saying you want to vote by mail . . . and then that's how you vote from then on.  Your personal address information is automatically updated every time you file taxes, but you can also contact elections Canada to update the information if necessary.

Online voting aside, the voting system in the US is so weird.  There should be one set of standardized rules across the country.  It makes no sense at all that each state votes in a completely different way to a completely different rule set.  Some Americans can vote by mail, some can't.  Every kind of mail in voting is different.  The system is purposely set up to make voting difficult in many places.  Hour plus waits in line are just accepted as the norm by everyone.

That's federalism for you.

I adamantly oppose any encroachment on any of the states' prerogatives under the 10th Amendment.

Not a fan of democracy, eh?

Under the Supremacy Clause there are already federal rules that apply to federal elections.

 All dispersions of power,  including  dispersions of power under federalism are inherently democratic.


During a lecture at a law school in Hawaii Justice Scalia said "it's game over" if a concentration of power ever obtains.   

Kinda like McConnell being able to control which President gets to confirm judges!

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically elected minorities.

lol - a state with half the population of New York City elected him and now he's the sole person in control of which president gets to appoint judges.

That is not a democracy in any reasonable interpretation of the word. 

[sherr]

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically elected minorities.

lol - a state with half the population of New York City elected him and now he's the sole person in control of which president gets to appoint judges.

That is not a democracy in any reasonable interpretation of the word.

If you divide the population of each state in half and assign half to each of its senators, the 53-seat Republican Senate majority of the last 2 years only represents 47.7% of the population.

And yet this President (who lost the popular vote) and this Senate (who represent a minority of the voters) have been able to pack the judiciary chock full of judges who do not represent the views of the majority of the population. "Majority", "minority", and "democratically" are relative terms.

[GuitarStv]

The senate is not really democratic.  20 million more people voted for Democratic candidates in Senate elections than for Republican candidates . . . but Republicans control the senate.

I expect that after this election that number will be even higher.

[cliffhanger]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

The Senate is meant to regulate the power of the House of Representatives by giving equal power to every state in the Senate. This is accomplished by allowing each State two senators with one vote each, which counteracts the fact that the number of representatives per state is based on the size and population of the state. As Madison says, "the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation". Due to this, each state has equal power in the Senate, which in turn protects smaller States from being overpowered by larger States. Representatives are elected with the people's interests in mind, while senators are elected with the States' interests in mind. What this means is that when the House of Representatives votes to pass a law or bill it is then voted for in the Senate which leads to the passing of laws that cater to both the States and the people. This type of two-stage voting system keeps the House of Representatives from passing too many laws or from passing laws that possibly serve the interests of the Representatives themselves.

[JLee]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

The Senate is meant to regulate the power of the House of Representatives by giving equal power to every state in the Senate. This is accomplished by allowing each State two senators with one vote each, which counteracts the fact that the number of representatives per state is based on the size and population of the state. As Madison says, "the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation". Due to this, each state has equal power in the Senate, which in turn protects smaller States from being overpowered by larger States. Representatives are elected with the people's interests in mind, while senators are elected with the States' interests in mind. What this means is that when the House of Representatives votes to pass a law or bill it is then voted for in the Senate which leads to the passing of laws that cater to both the States and the people. This type of two-stage voting system keeps the House of Representatives from passing too many laws or from passing laws that possibly serve the interests of the Representatives themselves.

I would argue that the composition of our court system is a matter of interest to the people, and that States are effectively comprised of the people who live in them.  Kentucky running the court system for the entire country is simply fucked.

[OtherJen]

Seeing as we have the technology, why isn't voting more streamlined? At this point, we should be able to vote online. I know that hacking is a concern, but surely that risk could be mitigated.

Easier to disenfranchise people with complicated voting rules and methods? Good question.

Honestly - this is 2020. How about we vote like we file taxes - online?

Hell no. You will pry Michigan's election paper trail from our 10 million cold, dead hands. We like our physical ballots.

[sui generis]

I think the hardest thing about voters deciding it's best to get Trump out, but leave Biden with a Republican Senate is that the Rs will make everything horrible for Americans for the next 4 years in order to (with McConnell reprising his words of over a decade ago) make Joe Biden a one-term president.  So, regardless of whether all of us here agree or not on judges or the Green New Deal or the filibuster...we also are not going to get any sort of economic relief and our economy will continue to suffer, because that is in the Rs best interest. 

It would have been nice to have had a Dem Senate so that Biden could at least show the people what his plans were, how they worked (or not) and let them make an honest assessment of his performance.  Now there will be nearly no performance to assess of his, but Rs will pin all the lackluster results of the government as a whole on him.

[sherr]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

Yes, and when that was written the difference in population between the smallest state (Delaware) and the largest (Pennsylvania) was 9x. Now its (Wyoming vs California) 68x.

What worked well enough back then does not necessarily work well now.

[bacchi]

I think the hardest thing about voters deciding it's best to get Trump out, but leave Biden with a Republican Senate is that the Rs will make everything horrible for Americans for the next 4 years in order to (with McConnell reprising his words of over a decade ago) make Joe Biden a one-term president.  So, regardless of whether all of us here agree or not on judges or the Green New Deal or the filibuster...we also are not going to get any sort of economic relief and our economy will continue to suffer, because that is in the Rs best interest. 

It would have been nice to have had a Dem Senate so that Biden could at least show the people what his plans were, how they worked (or not) and let them make an honest assessment of his performance.  Now there will be nearly no performance to assess of his, but Rs will pin all the lackluster results of the government as a whole on him.

Two years. The map isn't great in 2022 for the Republican Senators.

You're right, of course. Judgeships will sit empty, the stimulus bill will be anemic if it passes at all, and there will be no meaningful and needed changes to the democratic government.

[cliffhanger]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

Yes, and when that was written the difference in population between the smallest state (Delaware) and the largest (Pennsylvania) was 9x. Now its (Wyoming vs California) 68x.

What worked well enough back then does not necessarily work well now.

What's the cut-off then? What's the purpose of the Senate in your view? Wouldn't you just turn it into another House by doing population proportional representation?

[John Galt incarnate!]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

The Senate is meant to regulate the power of the House of Representatives by giving equal power to every state in the Senate. This is accomplished by allowing each State two senators with one vote each, which counteracts the fact that the number of representatives per state is based on the size and population of the state. As Madison says, "the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation". Due to this, each state has equal power in the Senate, which in turn protects smaller States from being overpowered by larger States. Representatives are elected with the people's interests in mind, while senators are elected with the States' interests in mind. What this means is that when the House of Representatives votes to pass a law or bill it is then voted for in the Senate which leads to the passing of laws that cater to both the States and the people. This type of two-stage voting system keeps the House of Representatives from passing too many laws or from passing laws that possibly serve the interests of the Representatives themselves.

The Framers prescribed that members of the House of Representatives stand for reelection every two years so that they would be close to the people and the democratic corrective of action-reaction: If a House member supports or passes legislation (action) their vociferous constituents dislike, in less than two years  they can vote the House member out of office (reaction).

For exactly the opposite reason, the Framers specified a six-year term for senators: They wanted senators to function  at a remove from the passions and discord  of the House. The striking difference between House  and Senate rhetoric evinces the Senate's more temperate, cerebral  governance.

Think of the House as a  boisterous bunch of high school sophomores and the Senate as their staid chaperones.

[sherr]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

Yes, and when that was written the difference in population between the smallest state (Delaware) and the largest (Pennsylvania) was 9x. Now its (Wyoming vs California) 68x.

What worked well enough back then does not necessarily work well now.

What's the cut-off then? What's the purpose of the Senate in your view? Wouldn't you just turn it into another House by doing population proportional representation?

If you're asking me what I want, I want us to switch to a multi-party proportional-representation parliamentarian democracy, like the ones we institute in the countries we conquer and "democratize".

Failing that I would like to see local reforms like ranked-choice voting, automatic voter registration, universal mail-in paper-ballot voting like Utah and Washington (with automatic audits of a certain percentage of the vote in every election), automatic district generation or citizen-led nonpartisan redistricting, and for the size of the House to be uncapped so that the Electoral College will once again more closely resemble the popular vote.

For the Senate in particular? I would love it if we could make it proportional and multi-party, yes, but that would require a constitutional amendment and if we're going that far we might as well switch over entirely to a parliamentarian system. But surely you recognize that the current state of affairs is unfair to the majority. I suspect that if you weren't part of that minority then you'd have a problem with the current system too.

[GuitarStv]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

Yes, and when that was written the difference in population between the smallest state (Delaware) and the largest (Pennsylvania) was 9x. Now its (Wyoming vs California) 68x.

What worked well enough back then does not necessarily work well now.

What's the cut-off then? What's the purpose of the Senate in your view? Wouldn't you just turn it into another House by doing population proportional representation?

The senate serves no purpose of value today.  It's both anti-democratic and dysfunctional.  It's main purpose in this day and age is to empower a party that represents a vocal minority views to override the wishes of the rest of the country.

[wenchsenior]

I think the hardest thing about voters deciding it's best to get Trump out, but leave Biden with a Republican Senate is that the Rs will make everything horrible for Americans for the next 4 years in order to (with McConnell reprising his words of over a decade ago) make Joe Biden a one-term president.  So, regardless of whether all of us here agree or not on judges or the Green New Deal or the filibuster...we also are not going to get any sort of economic relief and our economy will continue to suffer, because that is in the Rs best interest. 

It would have been nice to have had a Dem Senate so that Biden could at least show the people what his plans were, how they worked (or not) and let them make an honest assessment of his performance.  Now there will be nearly no performance to assess of his, but Rs will pin all the lackluster results of the government as a whole on him.

:nods: He'd be a lame duck from the very first day in most ways.

[cliffhanger]

The Senate is not and was not made to be the same as the House. Each Senator represents the interests of the State, while each Representative represents the interests of the people. Checks and balances and all that. Federalist 62 if you're interested.

Here's the wiki

Yes, and when that was written the difference in population between the smallest state (Delaware) and the largest (Pennsylvania) was 9x. Now its (Wyoming vs California) 68x.

What worked well enough back then does not necessarily work well now.

What's the cut-off then? What's the purpose of the Senate in your view? Wouldn't you just turn it into another House by doing population proportional representation?

The senate serves no purpose of value today.  It's both anti-democratic and dysfunctional.  It's main purpose in this day and age is to empower a party that represents a vocal minority views to override the wishes of the rest of the country.

rofl at least sherr comes up with a reasoned response as to why they think the system has strayed from it's original intent. But I guess this is just your shtick

[John Galt incarnate!]

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically minorities.

So...you'd be ok with packing the court?

Packing the court is, after all, perfectly Constitutional and the right of the majority House+Senate.

Like RBG, I think a Court of nine is about right.

[sherr]

rofl at least sherr comes up with a reasoned response as to why they think the system has strayed from it's original intent.

"Original Intent" is not a good metric. The original intent of the Electoral College was explicitly to keep the weighty responsibility of choosing the President out of the hands of the low-brow commoner and firmly in the purview of the Elite (Federalist 68). And to convince the slave-states to join by giving them disproportionate power, so that they can be assured of upholding their system of slavery. (And, I would add, to come up with some system what was possible given the complete impracticality of waging a presidential campaign across ALL 13 STATES!!!1!!one1!! given 1787 technology.)

We have already entirely subverted the original intent of the Electoral College by banning slavery and choosing to assign electors based on the state's popular vote. And the original intent of voting was that the majority of people would not be able to do it (women, natives, slaves).

What matters more than whether we've "strayed from the original intent" is whether the original intent is still desirable.

[marty998]

Top post sherr. All this original intent nonsense needs to be seen in the context of the times.

[OtherJen]

Here we go.  Trump campaign files lawsuit to halt Michigan ballot counting, demands access to observe

[bacchi]

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically minorities.

So...you'd be ok with packing the court?

Packing the court is, after all, perfectly Constitutional and the right of the majority House+Senate.

Like RBG, I think a Court of nine is about right.

Wait, we're paying attention to what RBG wants now?

[partgypsy]

Like all senators McTurtle is a creature of the democratic process.

Democratically elected majorities have more power than democratically minorities.

So...you'd be ok with packing the court?

Packing the court is, after all, perfectly Constitutional and the right of the majority House+Senate.

Like RBG, I think a Court of nine is about right.

Wait, we're paying attention to what RBG wants now?

lol

[MrGreen]

Here we go.  Trump campaign files lawsuit to halt Michigan ballot counting, demands access to observe

He's already missed his window. He's already behind by almost 40k ballots and a recount isn't going to swing that much.

[OtherJen]

Here we go.  Trump campaign files lawsuit to halt Michigan ballot counting, demands access to observe

He's already missed his window. He's already behind by almost 40k ballots and a recount isn't going to swing that much.

No, but he's going to make everyone wait even longer while he has his tantrum. Although according to our state AG as of 40 minutes ago, the lawsuit hasn't yet been filed in the court of claims.

I also can't imagine that a judge wouldn't throw out the lawsuit. There was a big call for attorneys who are registered MI voters and Democrats to serve as poll challengers at the absentee ballot counting site in downtown Detroit this morning. They were needed to balance the huge number of GOP poll challengers on site. I don't know what further access Trump thinks he's going to get.

[2Birds1Stone]

Looks like Biden is going to take it. Can't believe it.

I might shed a tear for the first time in over a decade.

[bacchi]

The anti-democracy Trumpists are out in force in Detroit.

https://twitter.com/annalise_frank/status/1324079313176678402

"Stop the vote," really? That's never going to come across as sounding like a good thing for an election.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

I think the hardest thing about voters deciding it's best to get Trump out, but leave Biden with a Republican Senate is that the Rs will make everything horrible for Americans for the next 4 years in order to (with McConnell reprising his words of over a decade ago) make Joe Biden a one-term president.  So, regardless of whether all of us here agree or not on judges or the Green New Deal or the filibuster...we also are not going to get any sort of economic relief and our economy will continue to suffer, because that is in the Rs best interest. 

It would have been nice to have had a Dem Senate so that Biden could at least show the people what his plans were, how they worked (or not) and let them make an honest assessment of his performance.  Now there will be nearly no performance to assess of his, but Rs will pin all the lackluster results of the government as a whole on him.

It makes sense if you don't want Biden to get the things passed that you think he would get passed because the Democrats finally controlled everything and Republicans have done a lot of nutty things so the Democrats will try to take this opportunity to do literally everything they can and you don't like the Democratic platform......but you felt compelled to vote against Trump because he's just that awful.

I really don't see how it's difficult to understand.

[OtherJen]

The anti-democracy Trumpists are out in force in Detroit.

https://twitter.com/annalise_frank/status/1324079313176678402

"Stop the vote," really? That's never going to come across as sounding like a good thing for an election.

Yep. They really, really don't want Detroiters' votes to be counted. It's so offensive to the voters and everyone in the city (and statewide, really) who worked so hard to make sure that all validly registered Detroit voters would have access to ballots. I'm not sure those protesters understand what it means to be an American citizen. They're the opposite of patriotic.

[partgypsy]

It doesn't make sense to me, because one of the biggest things Americans complain about is stagnation and not getting things done in the legislature. Basically all that politicians do is fight and do nothing. Have a republican led senate is going to lead to yet another 4 years of nothing happening.

[OzzieandHarriet]

It doesn't make sense to me, because one of the biggest things Americans complain about is stagnation and not getting things done in the legislature. Basically all that politicians do is fight and do nothing. Have a republican led senate is going to lead to yet another 4 years of nothing happening.

I’m wondering if McConnell is even going to allow Biden a cabinet.

[sui generis]

I think the hardest thing about voters deciding it's best to get Trump out, but leave Biden with a Republican Senate is that the Rs will make everything horrible for Americans for the next 4 years in order to (with McConnell reprising his words of over a decade ago) make Joe Biden a one-term president.  So, regardless of whether all of us here agree or not on judges or the Green New Deal or the filibuster...we also are not going to get any sort of economic relief and our economy will continue to suffer, because that is in the Rs best interest. 

It would have been nice to have had a Dem Senate so that Biden could at least show the people what his plans were, how they worked (or not) and let them make an honest assessment of his performance.  Now there will be nearly no performance to assess of his, but Rs will pin all the lackluster results of the government as a whole on him.

It makes sense if you don't want Biden to get the things passed that you think he would get passed because the Democrats finally controlled everything and Republicans have done a lot of nutty things so the Democrats will try to take this opportunity to do literally everything they can and you don't like the Democratic platform......but you felt compelled to vote against Trump because he's just that awful.

I really don't see how it's difficult to understand.

I didn't say I didn't understand it.  Read again.

[DoubleDown]

Holy crap, if Biden wins this election as things now stand, it will be with the exact, absolute minimum number of electoral votes required (270). Nothing like cutting it close (and making it ripe for contention by King Trump and all his men-children).

You know, on the one hand, I would have loved a giant "blue wave" to send a message to Trump and all his supporters that the vast majority of the country wants you to crawl back under a rock. But I can see a silver lining in having him lose by just a sliver, so that side gets to see what it feels like.

[sui generis]

The anti-democracy Trumpists are out in force in Detroit.

https://twitter.com/annalise_frank/status/1324079313176678402

"Stop the vote," really? That's never going to come across as sounding like a good thing for an election.

Yep. They really, really don't want Detroiters' votes to be counted. It's so offensive to the voters and everyone in the city (and statewide, really) who worked so hard to make sure that all validly registered Detroit voters would have access to ballots. I'm not sure those protesters understand what it means to be an American citizen. They're the opposite of patriotic.

Also, I heard (so take it FWIW) that the City of Philadelphia will be releasing the body cam footage and the 911 call from the killing of Walter Wallace from last week.  Which will probably stimulate protests in the street.  Which Trump will happily use to draw irrelevant conclusions about how it proves the votes should not be counted further.  So, (maybe) get ready for that, too.

[sherr]

You know, on the one hand, I would have loved a giant "blue wave" to send a message to Trump and all his supporters that the vast majority of the country wants you to crawl back under a rock. But I can see a silver lining in having him lose by just a sliver, so that side gets to see what it feels like.

It wouldn't be the same. It'll be a sliver in the EC, yes, but once the western states finish counting Biden will be up in the popular vote by what, maybe 5 Million votes total? That's not at all the same as winning the popular vote but losing the EC by a sliver.

Plus there's still a decent chance that Georgia and Pennsylvania actually go to Biden once they finish counting, as in "more likely than not" according to some pundits.

[OtherJen]

It doesn't make sense to me, because one of the biggest things Americans complain about is stagnation and not getting things done in the legislature. Basically all that politicians do is fight and do nothing. Have a republican led senate is going to lead to yet another 4 years of nothing happening.

I worked a precinct in my city yesterday. At the end of the night, Trump had a roughly 50-vote lead over Biden among the 490 in-person voters at that precinct. Strangely, Rashida Tlaib, our US district rep., won by a much larger margin in the same precinct, suggesting that people were voting for both her and Trump.

If anyone can figure that one out, more power to you. I can only assume it's the incumbent effect.

[Just Joe]

The anti-democracy Trumpists are out in force in Detroit.

https://twitter.com/annalise_frank/status/1324079313176678402

"Stop the vote," really? That's never going to come across as sounding like a good thing for an election.

Yep. They really, really don't want Detroiters' votes to be counted. It's so offensive to the voters and everyone in the city (and statewide, really) who worked so hard to make sure that all validly registered Detroit voters would have access to ballots. I'm not sure those protesters understand what it means to be an American citizen. They're the opposite of patriotic.

Someone needs to be reminding everyone there in four years that the GOP didn't want their votes to be counted. The GOP didn't want them to be able to vote. Never forget...

[Montecarlo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/1323994466672386055?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1323994466672386055%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbrandon_morse%2F2020%2F11%2F04%2Fmichigan-ballots-n274829

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

[DoubleDown]

You know, on the one hand, I would have loved a giant "blue wave" to send a message to Trump and all his supporters that the vast majority of the country wants you to crawl back under a rock. But I can see a silver lining in having him lose by just a sliver, so that side gets to see what it feels like.

It wouldn't be the same. It'll be a sliver in the EC, yes, but once the western states finish counting Biden will be up in the popular vote by what, maybe 5 Million votes total? That's not at all the same as winning the popular vote but losing the EC by a sliver.

Plus there's still a decent chance that Georgia and Pennsylvania actually go to Biden once they finish counting, as in "more likely than not" according to some pundits.

You're right, Biden winning 270 electoral votes but a large popular vote wouldn't be the same as the 2016 loss. But for the losing side, I think it would still feel pretty raw having the winning side squeak out the win with the absolute minimum required. So I'll accept it as some level of schadenfreude :-)

These election results have once and for all proven to me that 40% of this country irrevocably sucks.

[ctuser1]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/1323994466672386055?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1323994466672386055%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbrandon_morse%2F2020%2F11%2F04%2Fmichigan-ballots-n274829

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

Vote counts are not officially reported till a few days at a minimum. The "media" counts are just that - media counts. The "media" mostly does a good job, but sometimes messes up - e.g. when they project AZ was 97% counted yesterday and then corrected.

Why is this conspiracy-monger talking about what some unofficial media is reporting, again? And why are you promoting that?

There are no official counts to see yet!! Come back next week and you may have some.

[AerynLee]

Holy crap, if Biden wins this election as things now stand, it will be with the exact, absolute minimum number of electoral votes required (270). Nothing like cutting it close (and making it ripe for contention by King Trump and all his men-children).

You know, on the one hand, I would have loved a giant "blue wave" to send a message to Trump and all his supporters that the vast majority of the country wants you to crawl back under a rock. But I can see a silver lining in having him lose by just a sliver, so that side gets to see what it feels like.

While I would be happy if PA (and GA) flipped a part of me would love to see Trump get voted out because my state (NE) only gave him 4 of our 5 electoral votes

[NaN]

It doesn't make sense to me, because one of the biggest things Americans complain about is stagnation and not getting things done in the legislature. Basically all that politicians do is fight and do nothing. Have a republican led senate is going to lead to yet another 4 years of nothing happening.

I worked a precinct in my city yesterday. At the end of the night, Trump had a roughly 50-vote lead over Biden among the 490 in-person voters at that precinct. Strangely, Rashida Tlaib, our US district rep., won by a much larger margin in the same precinct, suggesting that people were voting for both her and Trump.

If anyone can figure that one out, more power to you. I can only assume it's the incumbent effect.

What precinct are you talking about? Biden has crushed it in Tlaib's district.

[NaN]

Holy crap, if Biden wins this election as things now stand, it will be with the exact, absolute minimum number of electoral votes required (270). Nothing like cutting it close (and making it ripe for contention by King Trump and all his men-children).

You know, on the one hand, I would have loved a giant "blue wave" to send a message to Trump and all his supporters that the vast majority of the country wants you to crawl back under a rock. But I can see a silver lining in having him lose by just a sliver, so that side gets to see what it feels like.

While I would be happy if PA (and GA) flipped a part of me would love to see Trump get voted out because my state (NE) only gave him 4 of our 5 electoral votes

Hate to say it but it ain't over yet. Little concerned about the AZ call.

[sherr]

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

Who says supposedly? That can't be correct, the "percent counted" goes up in the right-hand picture.

Regardless of what happened you're not going to be able to convince a conspiracy-theorist by using something "more official". They're gonna believe what they're gonna believe. It was a foregone conclusion that they would decide that the election was stolen because of "voter fraud" or something long before the election actually happened. Hell, they said that about 2016 and they won that one.

Also yes, I second ctuser's excellent explanation. These are just preliminary counts, not officially certified. They get revised up or down as counting proceeds and things are corrected.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Scary thing for us Texans, the Republicans will get to redistrict (post the census) and ensure their Senate and House seats in 2022.  If Biden gets in, the country will probably never realize just how close it came to Republicans solidifying their minority rule (dictatorship)...

[bacchi]

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

Who says supposedly? That can't be correct, the "percent counted" goes up in the right-hand picture.

Regardless of what happened you're not going to be able to convince a conspiracy-theorist by using something "more official". They're gonna believe what they're gonna believe. It was a foregone conclusion that they would decide that the election was stolen because of "voter fraud" or something long before the election actually happened. Hell, they said that about 2016 and they won that one.

Also yes, I second ctuser's excellent explanation. These are just preliminary counts, not officially certified. They get revised up or down as counting proceeds and things are corrected.

It's both a mistake and fake news.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1324020322622971913

DecisionDeskHQ explained what happened. Biden's total actually dropped due to a county error and then someone reversed the images to make it appear as if Trump lost votes.

[Freedom2016]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/1323994466672386055?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1323994466672386055%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbrandon_morse%2F2020%2F11%2F04%2Fmichigan-ballots-n274829

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

That screenshot wasn't sourced so it's hard to take seriously...

[Montecarlo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/1323994466672386055?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1323994466672386055%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fbrandon_morse%2F2020%2F11%2F04%2Fmichigan-ballots-n274829

Anyone tracking this?  Supposedly the screenshots are in reverse order - 140k votes were removed from Biden after a fat finger, but if anyone has something more official I would like to share with my Trump friends to get their hackles down

Vote counts are not officially reported till a few days at a minimum. The "media" counts are just that - media counts. The "media" mostly does a good job, but sometimes messes up - e.g. when they project AZ was 97% counted yesterday and then corrected.

Why is this conspiracy-monger talking about what some unofficial media is reporting, again? And why are you promoting that?

There are no official counts to see yet!! Come back next week and you may have some.

So cynical!  I specifically asked for sources to help refute this conspiracy!