Continuing outrages related to our 45th President

[caracarn]

Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

. Wtf are you talking about?  No FUCKING way should Biden do this. Trump is a security risk to the entire US. He should be nailed to the wall and made an example so this doesn't happen again for another 200 years.

It'll be much better for all of us if he loses the next election and THEN gets thrown into jail... ideally by a state government like Georgia.

The overall dynamics of the Republican party have so fundamentally shifted due to his example in the last seven years that I'm not sure it will get better.   I used to think/hope that the rest of the party was just play acting, but even if they were (and I think they are not anymore), they have so set the expectations of the conservative voting base that there is no getting better.  Grievance politics and blowing shit up is now a feature of this party forever more.

[Glenstache]

Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

. Wtf are you talking about?  No FUCKING way should Biden do this. Trump is a security risk to the entire US. He should be nailed to the wall and made an example so this doesn't happen again for another 200 years.

It'll be much better for all of us if he loses the next election and THEN gets thrown into jail... ideally by a state government like Georgia.

The overall dynamics of the Republican party have so fundamentally shifted due to his example in the last seven years that I'm not sure it will get better.   I used to think/hope that the rest of the party was just play acting, but even if they were (and I think they are not anymore), they have so set the expectations of the conservative voting base that there is no getting better.  Grievance politics and blowing shit up is now a feature of this party forever more.

I think I see where you are coming from. If I get it, you are concerned about the blowback from the hard right if "their guy" is thrown in prison. I oersonally think that a hard stand for rule if law is better earlier than later because the trend is towards normalization of exercise of power over adherence to civil norms and rule of law. I fear that a hall pass for Trump is going to have much worse downstream effects than a short term appeasement.

[nereo]

Thinking about it, there’s only one series of events where I’d feel somewhat ok with A presidential pardon for Trump:

• Trump loses general election decisively
• trial occurs post- election; a jury of his peers convicts
• Trump is pardoned before serving time

Following that order it would be hard to argue the election was rigged (though many still will), or that he was politically prosecuted (because his opponent ultimately was his savior). It would also drive Trump batty and be the biggest blow to his political legacy.

[GuitarStv]

Thinking about it, there’s only one series of events where I’d feel somewhat ok with A presidential pardon for Trump:

• Trump loses general election decisively
• trial occurs post- election; a jury of his peers convicts
• Trump is pardoned before serving time

Following that order it would be hard to argue the election was rigged (though many still will), or that he was politically prosecuted (because his opponent ultimately was his savior). It would also drive Trump batty and be the biggest blow to his political legacy.

More likely:
1. Trump wins general election while losing the popular vote again
2. Trial occurs post election, because of the prevalence of MAGA supporters a hung jury after hung jury occurs until the inevitable conviction happens
3. Trump pardons himself while still in office

[sonofsven]

Why are we even discussing pardoning the most innocent man in history?
Pardons are for the guilty, not those cheated by the corrupt 'deep state'
Besides, I read on the internet that Trump is still the Real President, and the character of Joe Biden is being played by an actor.

/s, in case it's not obvious

[partgypsy]

Still feel my youngest assessment of Trump's presidency is the most concise and Apt "Trump (is the kind of person) who takes a dookie in the pool.Ruins it for everyone, but won't admit it, points to someone else and blames them for the dookie"

[PeteD01]

Our nutjob governor Ron DeSantis just published a video featuring 45.
No, this video is not an indication of "formidable intelligence" - ha ha.
I put it here because that hate mongerer does not deserve his own thread.

'Wonder how the donor class feels about this': DeSantis skewered for over-the-top anti-LGBTQ video
David McAfee
June 30, 2023

A verified user who purports to be independent politically wrote, "I thought it was done by the left til saw what account posting it...ouch."

https://www.rawstory.com/desantis-slammed-for-video/

[Kris]

Wow. That video is nuts.

[PeteD01]

Wow. That video is nuts.

Yeah, completely nuts.

Looks like he is trying to run on a QAnon inspired stochastic terrorism ticket, painting targets on people´s backs and such.

DeSantis is known to be a breathtaking mega-asshole in person so maybe he is just telling his base what he thinks about them - and of course, he is so formidably intelligent that he knows for sure that they won't get the mockery.

[OzzieandHarriet]

This is certainly an outrage. (Gifting this from the NYT - hope the link works.))

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/politics/trump-plans-2025.html?unlocked_article_code=emmhZSNDbcu_ztDoYYQ5d6dfVApnvr0XGgvqEE7EurdoYaSpcenkClSc-qL5FeKZakf3kcLLIVuQv-9PNDOQbaggQcBD_X4scIsuG_tVpIcy92JcILhkZen2EgSUODJfcoy6k8QRHzeXGoTLvJRZAbv8eVKlIzbIsFUjBATTia25VtJAeFgVMDdoSnkwTCK7vSL3b3g6MzMvDRegVEDXxYQsbXcv7c4VmTdy2EgSpRtVk0CcTtKyaW2AkPy34Os0W00fcCn5STzhpcQArDJ3Sondmc4ZG5zap1zBOYLCPpsPu_Ao3HIB7WsKgD6HbshHNlPQYDWUdyiLGSWyxPg&smid=url-share

[bacchi]

This is certainly an outrage. (Gifting this from the NYT - hope the link works.))

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/politics/trump-plans-2025.html?unlocked_article_code=emmhZSNDbcu_ztDoYYQ5d6dfVApnvr0XGgvqEE7EurdoYaSpcenkClSc-qL5FeKZakf3kcLLIVuQv-9PNDOQbaggQcBD_X4scIsuG_tVpIcy92JcILhkZen2EgSUODJfcoy6k8QRHzeXGoTLvJRZAbv8eVKlIzbIsFUjBATTia25VtJAeFgVMDdoSnkwTCK7vSL3b3g6MzMvDRegVEDXxYQsbXcv7c4VmTdy2EgSpRtVk0CcTtKyaW2AkPy34Os0W00fcCn5STzhpcQArDJ3Sondmc4ZG5zap1zBOYLCPpsPu_Ao3HIB7WsKgD6HbshHNlPQYDWUdyiLGSWyxPg&smid=url-share

The guy's a dictator wannabe, no question. If he wins, and the Senate also flips, Congress will grant him the powers to follow some of these ideas. When Congress realizes its misstep, it'll be too late. TFG's Deep State will be in place.

That work at Heritage dovetails with plans on the Trump campaign website to expand presidential power that were drafted primarily by two of Mr. Trump’s advisers, Vincent Haley and Ross Worthington, with input from other advisers, including Stephen Miller, the architect of the former president’s hard-line immigration agenda.

Miller is a scary guy. He looks like a vampire and has the ethics of one (and not the nice Twilight ones). Brown people in red states should be very concerned if he gets his claws into new policies.

[OzzieandHarriet]

This is certainly an outrage. (Gifting this from the NYT - hope the link works.))

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/politics/trump-plans-2025.html?unlocked_article_code=emmhZSNDbcu_ztDoYYQ5d6dfVApnvr0XGgvqEE7EurdoYaSpcenkClSc-qL5FeKZakf3kcLLIVuQv-9PNDOQbaggQcBD_X4scIsuG_tVpIcy92JcILhkZen2EgSUODJfcoy6k8QRHzeXGoTLvJRZAbv8eVKlIzbIsFUjBATTia25VtJAeFgVMDdoSnkwTCK7vSL3b3g6MzMvDRegVEDXxYQsbXcv7c4VmTdy2EgSpRtVk0CcTtKyaW2AkPy34Os0W00fcCn5STzhpcQArDJ3Sondmc4ZG5zap1zBOYLCPpsPu_Ao3HIB7WsKgD6HbshHNlPQYDWUdyiLGSWyxPg&smid=url-share

Adding: Heather Cox Richardson discussed this in her letter today; of course we've always known this about him and his gang, but the concerning part is that mainstream Republicans are going along with it or even aiding and abetting (DeSantis), when in the past this kind of thing may have been roundly criticized. This is a result of 30-40 years of concerted effort by powerful right-wing forces to legitimize this stuff by various means. It's not just TFG, though they are using him for sure.

[nereo]

The phrase “the coverup is even worse than the crime” comes to mind…

Trump has been hit with new charges in the classified documents case. Prosecutors allege that he attempted to destroy evidence demanded in the investigation, including ordering subordinates to delete video footage.

If true it’s unbelievably stupid. Not only is it a substantial charge in its own right, but it undermines his entire defense - ie any shortage of evidence on other charges becomes as much his problem as the prosecutor.

[Sandi_k]

^^^^^

All I could think, when reading about the latest charges, was "Does no one remember Oliver North and Fawn Hall?!"

;)

I also took great glee in the news stories where Rudy G. "stipulated" in the GA lawsuit filed against him by the two election workers that he and TFG demonized, that **both** he AND TRUMP knew that the accusations they leveled against the election workers were false.

THAT is a smoking gun for Jack Smith - someone willing to state that TFG's state of mind was clear - he KNEW he hadn't won, and deliberately refused a peaceful transition of power.

Anyone still supporting the Orange Buffoon is a traitor.

[LaineyAZ]

Sandi,
I remember Oliver North and his secretary Fawn Hall!  I remember her testifying that she had smuggled documents out in her knee-high boots.  Ah, the old days of having to sneak paper documents out of a building! 

But of course North's open defiance of Congress was dismissed and his reputation was rehabilitated.  We don't seem to know how to deal with traitors, especially those who wear a military uniform. 

[sixwings]

I still cling to the belief that most americans are not nearly as radical/far right as Trump and the current version of the republican party, and that with Trump nominee they'll get wrecked in 2024.

Please tell me I can still cling to that belief!

[Dancin'Dog]

I still cling to the belief that most americans are not nearly as radical/far right as Trump and the current version of the republican party, and that with Trump nominee they'll get wrecked in 2024.

Please tell me I can still cling to that belief!

They've been so brainwashed to hate dems that they'll for any POS that the GOP names.  Hate is a powerful emotion and "you can't fix stupid".  The GOP just has to wave the 2nd Amendment threat and that secures a lot of red votes.  They are motivated by Fear & the GOP feeds on that.

[sixwings]

I still cling to the belief that most americans are not nearly as radical/far right as Trump and the current version of the republican party, and that with Trump nominee they'll get wrecked in 2024.

Please tell me I can still cling to that belief!

They've been so brainwashed to hate dems that they'll for any POS that the GOP names.  Hate is a powerful emotion and "you can't fix stupid".  The GOP just has to wave the 2nd Amendment threat and that secures a lot of red votes.  They are motivated by Fear & the GOP feeds on that.

Yeah but like, that's gotta only like be like 25-30% of the voting population... right? Like fox news only gets 2.5M viewers during prime time. I've gotta think at least 60% of voters are not insane hatred filled morons.

[OzzieandHarriet]

I still cling to the belief that most americans are not nearly as radical/far right as Trump and the current version of the republican party, and that with Trump nominee they'll get wrecked in 2024.

Please tell me I can still cling to that belief!

They've been so brainwashed to hate dems that they'll for any POS that the GOP names.  Hate is a powerful emotion and "you can't fix stupid".  The GOP just has to wave the 2nd Amendment threat and that secures a lot of red votes.  They are motivated by Fear & the GOP feeds on that.

Yeah but like, that's gotta only like be like 25-30% of the voting population... right? Like fox news only gets 2.5M viewers during prime time. I've gotta think at least 60% of voters are not insane hatred filled morons.

Our system gives that minority much more power than their numbers would suggest. Every state has two senators regardless of population, and the last few Republican presidents have won the Electoral College but not the popular vote.

[Just Joe]

Anyone see Guliani's video that attempts to spin his confession that he knew he was lying about the electors and how even though he confessed to investigators - his confession was all fake news? Or something like that.

I can't find the original clip but here it is buried in another clip.

https://youtu.be/UED0viwpxK0?t=289

[Kris]

The indictment of former President Donald J. Trump.


https://www.scribd.com/document/662462402/Trump-Indictment

[nereo]

The third indictment of former President Donald J. Trump.


https://www.scribd.com/document/662462402/Trump-Indictment

FTFY

[jinga nation]

Count me cynical. Rich, old, white, male. WASP - 45 and Gang.
Wake me up when the hammer actually hits the nail on the head aka he's sentenced. And his conspirators too. And the rot is excised.
Until then, performative politics to keep the hoi polloi on their toes.
There's different rules for different fools; we're the fools.

[nereo]

Count me cynical. Rich, old, white, male. WASP - 45 and Gang.
Wake me up when the hammer actually hits the nail on the head aka he's sentenced. And his conspirators too. And the rot is excised.
Until then, performative politics to keep the hoi polloi on their toes.
There's different rules for different fools; we're the fools.

Well for clarity, he was found liable in civil court (Carroll v. Trump) and Trump was ordered to pay $5MM.  Then he was obstinate enough to go against the judge's orders and effectively re-opened himself to further litigation.

Now, despite having spent somewhere north of $100MM over the past two years fighting inquiries he has been indicted three times, with two more pending. The next two years will interesting to see if he is acquitted, but certainly it looks very, very bad for him despite the eye-popping sums spent on pre-trial legal maneuvering. In this latest indictment it doesn't help that literally dozens of people have pled guilty to criminal charges publicly swearing that they did so at the urging of Trump.

[FIPurpose]

Count me cynical. Rich, old, white, male. WASP - 45 and Gang.
Wake me up when the hammer actually hits the nail on the head aka he's sentenced. And his conspirators too. And the rot is excised.
Until then, performative politics to keep the hoi polloi on their toes.
There's different rules for different fools; we're the fools.

I think this is why we continue to see Trump's strong poll numbers. People in general are not tracking the actual contents of the case and overall do not see it likely that a former president will be indicted.

I think if the shoe does drop on Trump we'll see the polls change against him. (though there's no obvious replacement for Trump)

It may turn into a late scramble for the primaries or perhaps the GOP are secretly hoping to turn it into a backroom deal where the primaries are essentially nullified and they get to play king maker after the fact.

[jinga nation]

Count me cynical. Rich, old, white, male. WASP - 45 and Gang.
Wake me up when the hammer actually hits the nail on the head aka he's sentenced. And his conspirators too. And the rot is excised.
Until then, performative politics to keep the hoi polloi on their toes.
There's different rules for different fools; we're the fools.

I think this is why we continue to see Trump's strong poll numbers. People in general are not tracking the actual contents of the case and overall do not see it likely that a former president will be indicted.

I think if the shoe does drop on Trump we'll see the polls change against him. (though there's no obvious replacement for Trump)

It may turn into a late scramble for the primaries or perhaps the GOP are secretly hoping to turn it into a backroom deal where the primaries are essentially nullified and they get to play king maker after the fact.

I'm tracking the case, don't get me wrong. I work in the DoD, and if I had a scrap of classified paper, I'd be in a locked cell within hours. But TFG is still walking around free and continuing his grift. So I know how it feels about "rules" and "national security policy" etc. Also, related-unrelated, TFG overrode and gave Jared a security clearance. Meanwhile everyone else who works in the DoD has to go through years and levels and checks and paperwork. Talk about privilege.

I agree that the timing is going to be quite "interesting". I heard a BBC interview this morning (on NPR) that if this spills over past the elections, and TFG wins, he'll be trying a bunch of things to get it dismissed, including pardoning himself.

[charis]

I agree that the timing is going to be quite "interesting". I heard a BBC interview this morning (on NPR) that if this spills over past the elections, and TFG wins, he'll be trying a bunch of things to get it dismissed, including pardoning himself.

I'm sure he'll be doing everything he possibly can to drag out these cases past the election. 

[nereo]

I agree that the timing is going to be quite "interesting". I heard a BBC interview this morning (on NPR) that if this spills over past the elections, and TFG wins, he'll be trying a bunch of things to get it dismissed, including pardoning himself.

I'm sure he'll be doing everything he possibly can to drag out these cases past the election.

That's his lifetime MO. 
However, I'm not sure that works in his favor here.  To win re-election, he has to perform better than he did in 2020. Due to a shifting electorate preforming "just as good" will have a much worse outcome.  Frankly I question whether independents and moderate Rs will show up in greater numbers than previously for a man who has at least 3 separate criminal charges pending.
It's hard to keep up an attack on your opponent when literally every new story will have to start with the latest updates of this or that criminal case.

[Just Joe]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

[nereo]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

Like I said, that's his lifetime MO.  I'm just not convinced it will work in his favor this time with the severity of the charges and the multiple venues he must defend himself in.  I guess we will find out over the next 15 months.

[bacchi]

However, I'm not sure that works in his favor here.  To win re-election, he has to perform better than he did in 2020. Due to a shifting electorate preforming "just as good" will have a much worse outcome.  Frankly I question whether independents and moderate Rs will show up in greater numbers than previously for a man who has at least 3 separate criminal charges pending.
It's hard to keep up an attack on your opponent when literally every new story will have to start with the latest updates of this or that criminal case.

Particularly in Georgia, where he has been criticizing the elected Republicans. Sure, Raffensperger probably still gets death threats from MAGA idiots but to others Raffensperger is a decent establishment conservative. TFG already lost Georgia in 2020 and now he has to convince Republicans who voted for Raffensperger and Kemp that he didn't really mean it.

There's also the funding issue. As we saw this week, multiple teams of high priced lawyers can easily run into the tens of millions.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

Like I said, that's his lifetime MO.  I'm just not convinced it will work in his favor this time with the severity of the charges and the multiple venues he must defend himself in.  I guess we will find out over the next 15 months.

What's the alternative, though? Get convicted? I would delay as long as I could.

[nereo]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

Like I said, that's his lifetime MO.  I'm just not convinced it will work in his favor this time with the severity of the charges and the multiple venues he must defend himself in.  I guess we will find out over the next 15 months.

What's the alternative, though? Get convicted? I would delay as long as I could.

Well, there’s “get acquitted “. Kind of nightmare scenario for Dems - suddenly it brings a certain validity to the claims of deeply unjust persecution. Biden’s DOJ gets the blame, republicans see it as proof that it was all a political sham. Dems are outraged that they couldn’t even convict the guy that kept saying the Quiet parts out loud. 

…but I think Trump will continue the delay tactic hoping for to win election when he can go on a revenge tour, fire everyone involved and pardon himself. 

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

Like I said, that's his lifetime MO.  I'm just not convinced it will work in his favor this time with the severity of the charges and the multiple venues he must defend himself in.  I guess we will find out over the next 15 months.

What's the alternative, though? Get convicted? I would delay as long as I could.

Well, there’s “get acquitted “. Kind of nightmare scenario for Dems - suddenly it brings a certain validity to the claims of deeply unjust persecution. Biden’s DOJ gets the blame, republicans see it as proof that it was all a political sham. Dems are outraged that they couldn’t even convict the guy that kept saying the Quiet parts out loud. 

…but I think Trump will continue the delay tactic hoping for to win election when he can go on a revenge tour, fire everyone involved and pardon himself.

True, but what are the chances of him getting acquitted? It seems inevitable if the jury is impartial that he'll be convicted on something. I doubt even he's deluded enough to think he'll win them all.

[LaineyAZ]

Honestly, I've been more disturbed lately by the Alabama state legislature blatantly defying the U.S. Supreme Court about redrawing a more fair voting map.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/column-alabamas-redrawn-voting-map-could-put-supreme-court-test-again-2023-07-28/

Have we ever had an instance of a government entity defying the highest court in the land?  Where are we as a country if we accept this basic lawlessness?
We have got to start punishing these people by throwing them in prison - I know it's the only thing they're really afraid of. 
 
And, related to Trump, I think prison is the only appropriate penalty for him too - all the fines or public censure or other finger-wagging type scolding is just laughed off.  Like others I'm waiting for the handcuffs and orange prison jumpsuit. 

[Just Joe]

Yeah it seems like we'll go off the rails really quickly if the GOP is allowed to do things like this with no blow back.

So any speculative history enthusiasts here? What to tell us what it looks like if Trump gets re-elected? I can day dream all sort of bad outcomes.

[FIPurpose]

Honestly, I've been more disturbed lately by the Alabama state legislature blatantly defying the U.S. Supreme Court about redrawing a more fair voting map.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/column-alabamas-redrawn-voting-map-could-put-supreme-court-test-again-2023-07-28/

Have we ever had an instance of a government entity defying the highest court in the land?  Where are we as a country if we accept this basic lawlessness?
We have got to start punishing these people by throwing them in prison - I know it's the only thing they're really afraid of. 
 
And, related to Trump, I think prison is the only appropriate penalty for him too - all the fines or public censure or other finger-wagging type scolding is just laughed off.  Like others I'm waiting for the handcuffs and orange prison jumpsuit.

Isn't this like Alabama's MO?

They defied SC orders to desegregate in the 60's-70's.
They were one of the states to cede from the Union 100 years before that.

I'm not too worried about it. Some higher court will redraw the map for them. At the end of the day, they do not have the final say over federal election districts. This is just them throwing a hissy fit for a while.

[sixwings]

Honestly, I've been more disturbed lately by the Alabama state legislature blatantly defying the U.S. Supreme Court about redrawing a more fair voting map.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/column-alabamas-redrawn-voting-map-could-put-supreme-court-test-again-2023-07-28/

Have we ever had an instance of a government entity defying the highest court in the land?  Where are we as a country if we accept this basic lawlessness?
We have got to start punishing these people by throwing them in prison - I know it's the only thing they're really afraid of. 
 
And, related to Trump, I think prison is the only appropriate penalty for him too - all the fines or public censure or other finger-wagging type scolding is just laughed off.  Like others I'm waiting for the handcuffs and orange prison jumpsuit.

Isn't this like Alabama's MO?

They defied SC orders to desegregate in the 60's-70's.
They were one of the states to cede from the Union 100 years before that.

I'm not too worried about it. Some higher court will redraw the map for them. At the end of the day, they do not have the final say over federal election districts. This is just them throwing a hissy fit for a while.

Yet they are one of the states most dependent on federal aid.

https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2022

[charis]

Delay, delay, delay - maybe he thinks he'll live out the remainder of his life before the consequences come back on him.

Like I said, that's his lifetime MO.  I'm just not convinced it will work in his favor this time with the severity of the charges and the multiple venues he must defend himself in.  I guess we will find out over the next 15 months.

What's the alternative, though? Get convicted? I would delay as long as I could.

Well, there’s “get acquitted “. Kind of nightmare scenario for Dems - suddenly it brings a certain validity to the claims of deeply unjust persecution. Biden’s DOJ gets the blame, republicans see it as proof that it was all a political sham. Dems are outraged that they couldn’t even convict the guy that kept saying the Quiet parts out loud. 

…but I think Trump will continue the delay tactic hoping for to win election when he can go on a revenge tour, fire everyone involved and pardon himself.

True, but what are the chances of him getting acquitted? It seems inevitable if the jury is impartial that he'll be convicted on something. I doubt even he's deluded enough to think he'll win them all.

The chances are not great, particularly on the most recent indictment.  The DOJ has now had a bunch of good practice convicting January 6 rioters.  They appear to feel pretty solid on Trump's case.

[Dancin'Dog]

Can he get off with an "insanity" plea?  Seems to be extensively documented. 

[Just Joe]

Would his ego allow that? Or would he spin it that the "owned the courts"?

[FIPurpose]

It's also being tried in DC which voted for Biden 92 - 5. I don't think there's going to be a strong chance of the jury being packed with Trump sympathizers.

[Travis]

Can he get off with an "insanity" plea?  Seems to be extensively documented.

His Twitter-level defense so far is that he acted on advice from good lawyers. According to the indictment, most of those lawyers told him for months that there was no fraud and changing the election outcome just wasn't going to happen. Bill Barr was on CNN last night saying that if he went with this "I acted on legal advice" claim in court, he'd probably have to sit on the stand without attorney-client privilege and be asked about it directly. And then be cross-examined and hope he can keep his stories straight.

[blue_green_sparks]

Whenever Trump devotees are interviewed, they don't seem to know or care about any facts at all. A true cult of personality that will be studied for generations.

[Dancin'Dog]

I wonder what kind of drama Trump might give us next?  It would be hilarious if he gets caught faking his own death or trying to flee the country.  I don't think an ultra-narcissist is able to bring himself to run and/or hide like that.  He can't give up even one minute of camera time. 


What kind of crazy stunts do you guys think he might try?  How long do you think he can make the trials drag out?  What happens to the remaining trials if one happens to imprison him before the others are finished?  They can't release him from a GA or FL prison to jet off to finish a DC trial, can they? 


It's insane that he can be "presumed innocent until proven guilty" for so damned many things at the same time. 

[LaineyAZ]

Not sure about stunts but isn't it interesting that Ivanka and Jared are MIA? 
Don Jr. and Eric are doing their usual social media rants, but really, who among his family is going to be supporting him by attending his sessions in court?
 
Everyone's absence is very telling.

[bacchi]

Not sure about stunts but isn't it interesting that Ivanka and Jared are MIA? 
Don Jr. and Eric are doing their usual social media rants, but really, who among his family is going to be supporting him by attending his sessions in court?
 
Everyone's absence is very telling.

Jared may be more cautious given his dad's criminal history.

After Charles Kushner discovered his brother-in-law was cooperating with federal authorities, the wealthy real estate executive and father of President Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared, hatched a scheme for revenge and intimidation.

Kushner hired a prostitute to lure his brother-in-law, then arranged to have the encounter in a New Jersey motel room recorded with a hidden camera and the recording sent to his own sister, the man’s wife [to prevent her from testifying before a grand jury].

The scheme didn’t work. Kushner later pleaded guilty to tax evasion and making illegal campaign donations in a case tailor-made for tabloid headlines.

[Just Joe]

Great people. The best people. Only the finest. Glad DHT and his team were there to drain the swamp. What interesting times we live in.

[nereo]

I’d like to know how much money it will cost the GOP to defend Trump in at least three different trials.  I heard one report that in the first quarter of 2023 $40MM was spent.  Sounds like its only going to intensify as trials near, and this will go on for at least another year if not longer.

[PeteD01]

I'm getting a little concerned about so far not seeing an effort to shut DJT up.
There comes a point where failure to take him into custody, or otherwise silencing his public self-incrimination, might start to look deliberate.

We are dealing with an individual of limited intellectual capacity who is apparently unaware of the consequences of his blabbering.

Hard call to make given everything, but the judge has to consider that the defendant is actively working in favor of Jack Smith's prosecution and, by allowing the defendant's behavior to continue, the impartiality of the judge might be questioned down the line.

Interesting twist, but DJT might have to be taken into custody or muzzled in other ways with the judge acting on behalf of the defendant's own interest in having a fair trial.