Continuing outrages related to our 45th President

[JoePublic3.14]

More straw men here than at a Wizard if Oz festival. No big thing, in general most of us do it here and there., especially in these types of threads. We can move along.

[PeteD01]

Trump’s strangely supportive language for Putin continues. Today on a Fox interview he called Putin a “genius” and his strategy for invading parts of Ukraine “savvy”.  This from a former POTUS.

Nothing strange here, Trump has been considered an asset by the KGB since the 1980s. Standard KGB operating procedure is to collect incriminating evidence followed by extortion, and more if necessary. They for sure got dirt on him galore:

‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

"Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: “He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we’re going to develop this guy and 40 years later he’ll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people.”

“Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

[Kris]

Trump’s strangely supportive language for Putin continues. Today on a Fox interview he called Putin a “genius” and his strategy for invading parts of Ukraine “savvy”.  This from a former POTUS.

Nothing strange here, Trump has been considered an asset by the KGB since the 1980s. Standard KGB operating procedure is to collect incriminating evidence followed by extortion, and more if necessary. They for sure got dirt on him galore:

‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

"Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: “He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we’re going to develop this guy and 40 years later he’ll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people.”

“Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

And now his base is an asset, as well.

[Just Joe]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

[former player]

More straw men here than at a Wizard if Oz festival. No big thing, in general most of us do it here and there., especially in these types of threads. We can move along.

So you think that pointing out problems with Putin's governance of Russia and lack of a realistic end game in Ukraine is irrelevant to refuting a claim that he is "damn smart" and "cunning"?

More likely you just don't have a decent argument and want to move on and forget it.  Rather like retiringearly, in fact.

[talltexan]

Trump’s unending praise for him seems to be based on one metric only - how much power he has amassed and maintains. There’s no consideration whatsoever about his effectiveness as a leader relative to his people or for the broader globe.

@nereo responded very well with this paragraph. Praising someone merely for winning power is contrary to American values, which articulate that those who hold power receive it upon consent of the governed.

[PeteD01]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

...

Putin is a brutal killer and a tyrant who feels cornered - a socialist or communist he is not.
This is not reassuring as the socialist adversaries during the cold war were essentially rational actors and the politburo in soviet Russia served as the guarantor for the succession process, provided a check on the General Secretary and created a supportive environment for the General Secretary.
The structure of the soviet state thus assured rationality in international affairs to a large degree.
Putin lacks these institutional supports and should be expected to act erratically when cornered. sasdly, the soviet mindset and particularly the KGB mindset is one of paranoia, suspicion and a sense of being cornered. Putin, as a former high ranking KGB operative, can be expected to have those qualities in abundance, and can also be expected to act with brutality in typical crude KGB fashion.

[ncornilsen]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline? 

[PeteD01]

More straw men here than at a Wizard if Oz festival. No big thing, in general most of us do it here and there., especially in these types of threads. We can move along.

So you think that pointing out problems with Putin's governance of Russia and lack of a realistic end game in Ukraine is irrelevant to refuting a claim that he is "damn smart" and "cunning"?

More likely you just don't have a decent argument and want to move on and forget it.  Rather like retiringearly, in fact.

He is not quite there yet, but getting close.
Retiringearly comes across as a Putin drone right out of MAGA-world, albeit equipped only with 1st generation AI.

[talltexan]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

 If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he...imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'   

Can you go into more detail about this right here? (Acknowledging the pipeline, which is currently being paused)

What other sanctions did Trump impose on Russia, and which statements by Democrats made it seem that Democrats thought it was "too much"?

[JoePublic3.14]

More straw men here than at a Wizard if Oz festival. No big thing, in general most of us do it here and there., especially in these types of threads. We can move along.

So you think that pointing out problems with Putin's governance of Russia and lack of a realistic end game in Ukraine is irrelevant to refuting a claim that he is "damn smart" and "cunning"?

More likely you just don't have a decent argument and want to move on and forget it.  Rather like retiringearly, in fact.

More likely you don’t want to answer a basic question and want to move on and avoid it. Rather like some other unnamed posters, in fact.

The reverse trolling is spectacular.

Trump was criticized here for calling Putin a genius. I made the point that someone can be a genius and a bad person (with a couple off the cuff examples) and asked how others would describe Putin's intelligence. I even provided my answer to the question.

[PeteD01]

...
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.
...

He did not want to criticize Biden - he just felt like licking Putin´s boots, in public and for all to see. At least that´s the impression I got.
There is also admiration for Putin dating back to Tea Party times (yes, I have been watching this). The most radical elements were into that at the time and they are now found well entrenched in MAGA-world - so, for Trump, such talk serves to please his base at no cost while causing problems for the GOP, exactly how he likes things.

[ncornilsen]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

 If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he...imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'   

Can you go into more detail about this right here? (Acknowledging the pipeline, which is currently being paused)

What other sanctions did Trump impose on Russia, and which statements by Democrats made it seem that Democrats thought it was "too much"?

Sanctions imposed by Trump:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

I looked for the statements that left me with the impression, and they're all around the repeal of the pipeline sanctions, and some democrats were opposed to that. So if you're stipulating to the pipeline thing, I don't have any other examples of democrats opposing Russian sanctions. It doesn't help that any google search of something with russian sanctions is saturated with current events.

[GuitarStv]

Trump was criticized here for calling Putin a genius. I made the point that someone can be a genius and a bad person (with a couple off the cuff examples) and asked how others would describe Putin's intelligence. I even provided my answer to the question.

I've been thinking about Trump's comments here, and trying to figure out why they bother me.
 On the surface . . . sure.  Putin is obviously an intelligent man*.  It wouldn't be possible for a stupid person to hold power the way that he has for the past few decades.  So yeah, on the surface no problems there.

It's the subtext that bothers me.

Trump didn't say "Putin's a terrible guy, but he's obviously smart".  He didn't say "He's a genius, but . . . ".
 Trump was very clear to only praise and ignore/gloss over any negatives.  That rankles a bit.  That but... is very important.  Putin is a pretty awful person.  He has done a lot of pretty terrible things.  To the point that it should be difficult to discuss anything positive about him without mentioning them.

But also, Trump's comments come from a man who directly benefitted in two elections from Russia interfering in US elections.  When Trump praises Putin, it sounds an awful lot like "Hey buddy, thanks for breaking international law to help me out.  I'm a weak man who needs that help, and you can count on me in the future."  Trump has a history of shady backroom dealings and breaking the rules.  Taken all together, I think that should be both disturbing and worrying for anyone paying attention.

I suspect that the anger/outrage is largely related to this subtext rather than the literal interpretation of the words said, which you seem to be assuming.





*Intelligent sure, but nothing I've read, heard, or seen of him really indicates 'genius' level intelligence.

[PeteD01]

...

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Whataboutism does not contribute anything tio the discussion and is just another way to blur lines of argument.
You mentioned five different presidential decisions in one paragraph and apparently expect them to be discussed or at least acknowledged.
I am not going to discuss these individually but will point out two things:

1) There is an underlying assumption that these decisions were made by the presidents in a political vacuum ignoring the constraining contemporary framework these decisions were made in.

2) All these decisions were made in a climate in which important players, to a varying degree, believed that Putin´s Russia could be treated like a rational actor similar to its soviet predecessor. That required ignoring the fact that the communist party structures that provided stability and checks were dismantled after the demise of the Soviet Union.
To some degree, Russia used to be a more rational actor than today because of the support of the oligarchs Putin relied on. These oligarchs are more vulnerable to sanctions and other economic headwinds than the repressive state apparatus Putin is most familiar with. That reliance on the oligarchs has decreased over the years with Putin actively working on it. Putin has been relying more and more on authoritarian repression - which would be the failure mode of a former KGB thug.
So no, none of this shows unusually high intelligence or cunning on Putin´s part.
 

[ncornilsen]

...

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Whataboutism does not contribute anything tio the discussion and is just another way to blur lines of argument.
You mentioned five different presidential decisions in one paragraph and apparently expect them to be discussed or at least acknowledged.
I am not going to discuss these individually but will point out two things:

1) There is an underlying assumption that these decisions were made by the presidents in a political vacuum ignoring the constraining contemporary framework these decisions were made in.

2) All these decisions were made in a climate in which important players, to a varying degree, believed that Putin´s Russia could be treated like a rational actor similar to its soviet predecessor. That required ignoring the fact that the communist party structures that provided stability and checks were dismantled after the demise of the Soviet Union.
To some degree, Russia used to be a more rational actor than today because of the support of the oligarchs Putin relied on. These oligarchs are more vulnerable to sanctions and other economic headwinds than the repressive state apparatus Putin is most familiar with. That reliance on the oligarchs has decreased over the years with Putin actively working on it. Putin has been relying more and more on authoritarian repression - which would be the failure mode of a former KGB thug.
So no, none of this shows unusually high intelligence or cunning on Putin´s part.

Directly comparing the direction and intensity of actions on a particular topic to refute this contention that republicans are friends to Russia is a perfectly valid line of discussion. It is nonsense for you to contend that republicans are helping russia, then discount all of the examples of the exact opposite thing in reality.

That said, I don't disagree with either of those statements. I also don't think Putin is particularly genius or anything.  I think you're replying to someone else on that part?

[PeteD01]

Directly comparing the direction and intensity of actions on a particular topic to refute this contention that republicans are friends to Russia is a perfectly valid line of discussion. It is nonsense for you to contend that republicans are helping russia, then discount all of the examples of the exact opposite thing in reality.

No, the contention that Republicans are friends of Russia is false on its face and I would never say such a thing.
I see the attitude towards Putin as a divisive issue within the GOP that can be exploited - especially at a time when the fakeness of Putin admirers´ fake patriotism is more obvious than ever.
I think that is pretty much the opposite of saying that Republicans are friends of Russia - unless they line up behind Trump, that is.

[Scandium]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

[PeteD01]

Trump was criticized here for calling Putin a genius. I made the point that someone can be a genius and a bad person (with a couple off the cuff examples) and asked how others would describe Putin's intelligence. I even provided my answer to the question.

I've been thinking about Trump's comments here, and trying to figure out why they bother me.
 On the surface . . . sure.  Putin is obviously an intelligent man*.  It wouldn't be possible for a stupid person to hold power the way that he has for the past few decades.  So yeah, on the surface no problems there.

It's the subtext that bothers me.

Trump didn't say "Putin's a terrible guy, but he's obviously smart".  He didn't say "He's a genius, but . . . ".
 Trump was very clear to only praise and ignore/gloss over any negatives.  That rankles a bit.  That but... is very important.  Putin is a pretty awful person.  He has done a lot of pretty terrible things.  To the point that it should be difficult to discuss anything positive about him without mentioning them.

But also, Trump's comments come from a man who directly benefitted in two elections from Russia interfering in US elections.  When Trump praises Putin, it sounds an awful lot like "Hey buddy, thanks for breaking international law to help me out.  I'm a weak man who needs that help, and you can count on me in the future."  Trump has a history of shady backroom dealings and breaking the rules.  Taken all together, I think that should be both disturbing and worrying for anyone paying attention.

I suspect that the anger/outrage is largely related to this subtext rather than the literal interpretation of the words said, which you seem to be assuming.





*Intelligent sure, but nothing I've read, heard, or seen of him really indicates 'genius' level intelligence.

All this talk about Putin being so smart and intelligent is far more dangerous than it appears. Putin being a genius is also the official propaganda line in Russia - pure coincidence of course.
From my perspective, Putin´s actions do not look like the product of superior intelligence but like signs of weakness and instability on Putin´s part.
Attributing the events in Ukraine as the work of a genius appear mere appeasement of concerns about the danger of nuclear weapons in control of a possibly unstable individual. 

[ncornilsen]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

 

[Fireball]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

"So the most popular Republican talking head is on video supporting Russia, but what about this MSNBC, right?"....Come on, now. You were wrong. Take your lumps. 

[ncornilsen]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

"So the most popular Republican talking head is on video supporting Russia, but what about this MSNBC, right?"....Come on, now. You were wrong. Take your lumps.

Take your own lumps, clown. The youtube video with all of these clips about Tucker was made by MSNBC, so impeaching their credibility is fair game.

[MOD EDIT: manners, please.  We keep the name-calling to a minimum.]

[Fireball]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

"So the most popular Republican talking head is on video supporting Russia, but what about this MSNBC, right?"....Come on, now. You were wrong. Take your lumps.

Take your own lumps, clown. The youtube video with all of these clips about Tucker was made by MSNBC, so impeaching their credibility is fair game.

Google the Mike Turner and Tucker interview that was on Fox News and decide for yourself.  I assume Fox is sufficiently credible for you.

[Fireball]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

"So the most popular Republican talking head is on video supporting Russia, but what about this MSNBC, right?"....Come on, now. You were wrong. Take your lumps.

Take your own lumps, clown. The youtube video with all of these clips about Tucker was made by MSNBC, so impeaching their credibility is fair game.

Google the Mike Turner and Tucker interview that was on Fox News and decide for yourself.  I assume Fox is sufficiently factual for you.

Don't defelect. Acknowledge you are a reflexive jellyfish who kneejerks to any criticism of your vaunted media sources without even a second of critical thought about it. Acknowledge you are too intellectually lazy to actually understand my statement and realize what I actually said.

I'll watch his interview. I said I'd reserve judgement and meant it... I just will not take MSNBCs edited videos for anything, though.

Cool, cool. Let me know what you think of the interview! 

[OtherJen]

From Fox News's website: Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it (foxnews.com, published February 23, 2022)

[talltexan]

Thanks for sharing the text of the Carlson piece.

Problematic in the Carlson statement is the idea that domestic political opponents are the real villains, rather than the autocrat that is in charge of a rival nation. What concept of our nation allows for that?

[Scandium]

Hasn't it traditionally been the Republicans who worried about socialism? And communists. And socialism = communism. The McCarthy hearings and all that.

So now the Republicans are publicly supporting the leader of Russia who just invaded a neighboring country...

This sure does simply who to vote for in our future elections.

The Republican message is all over the place. Freedom is paramount until two fellows want to get married. Or someone asks them to wear a mask in the hopes of reducing the spread of virus and either killing people or reducing their ability to work and earn a buck (free enterprise). Etc.

If you insist on mischaracterizing republican positions, it's no wonder it doesn't appear consistent. Leftist doctrine has far more problems that I'm not going to go into right now.
I find trumps, in particular, comments on Putin's genius to be dumb and bad taste... and if he wanted to criticize Biden there are far more direct ways to do it.

That said, I listen to conservative media. None of them are supporting Russia's actions, most are making fun of Putin for looking like an overstuffed pillow these days. They have plenty of well deserved criticism of Biden, but none have lauded Putin.

And let's forget talk... what about actions? If Trump was so friendly to Russia, why is it that he stopped that gas pipeline and imposed sanctions on russia that democrats said were 'too much?'  Why did Obama allow the annexation of the Crimea? Why did Obama deny Ukraine weapons, and why did Trump approve them? Why did Biden repeal the sanctions and allow the construction of that gasline?

Only the biggest show on the biggest conservative network?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSuwiOe2dA0

I don't watch Tucker, or really any TV.  Maybe he does support Russia, and that's problematic for me. Anything MSNBC gets covered in a shaker of salt, however. They are pretty notorious for slanted coverage and selective editing. I reserve judgement on Tucker.

Well then take 6 minutes and watch it and tell me what's "slanted". They show clips of Tucker talking! Pretty hard to twist his own words then huh?

The MSNBC commentary is slanted yes; like "we should not support an authoritarian dictator invading a democractic country without cause". I guess that's controversial these days

[Just Joe]

Just switched off conservative talk radio. Their take on Ukraine is that Ukraine is bombing eastern Ukraine which actually belongs to Russia. So Russia's entry into these areas are intended to protect these eastern Ukraine regions from Ukraine. Many platitudes for Putin which I found nauseating.

Saw some news of supposed eastern Ukrainians welcoming the arrival of the Russians.

Back to the conservative talk radio: "This is what a real man does! He takes action... Not like the liberal soy boys".

 

[Scandium]

Just switched off conservative talk radio. Their take on Ukraine is that Ukraine is bombing eastern Ukraine which actually belongs to Russia. So Russia's entry into these areas are intended to protect these eastern Ukraine regions from Ukraine. Many platitudes for Putin which I found nauseating.

Saw some news of supposed eastern Ukrainians welcoming the arrival of the Russians.

Back to the conservative talk radio: "This is what a real man does! He takes action... Not like the liberal soy boys".

That's amazing. Straight up propaganda, that would make Pravda blush. They don't do this without reason, is it just because Biden is against Russia, therefore they are for it? Are some actually paid by Russia? They did finance national front and other hard-right parties in Europe..

Also somewhere between sad and hilarious that conservatives so easily fall for such obvious propaganda. Large parts of the country have simply retreated into caveman brain state of "us vs them, they bad"

[Kris]

Just switched off conservative talk radio. Their take on Ukraine is that Ukraine is bombing eastern Ukraine which actually belongs to Russia. So Russia's entry into these areas are intended to protect these eastern Ukraine regions from Ukraine. Many platitudes for Putin which I found nauseating.

Saw some news of supposed eastern Ukrainians welcoming the arrival of the Russians.

Back to the conservative talk radio: "This is what a real man does! He takes action... Not like the liberal soy boys".

Gross. Was this a local talk radio program, or national? I’d like to hear it…

[Just Joe]

You might get a kick out of this. I was testing a vintage shortwave radio. The antenna is not optimal and the whole rig was inside so its reception sensitivity is mediocre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWCR

I'm 99% sure this is what I was listening to.

[partgypsy]

On Facebook, already see the conservative talking points,this wouldn't have happened if trump was still in office. Not understanding that Putin spent a lot of resources, getting trump elected and keeping him there. Even an idiot would realize, Putin would only support someone who was LESS likely to be a threat, not more. I think I need to take a break from the news. And I do hope anyone who does want to support Ukraine, the best way is the west to show a united front against Russia. Russia is the enemy
 

[bacchi]

On Facebook, already see the conservative talking points,this wouldn't have happened if trump was still in office. Not understanding that Putin spent a lot of resources, getting trump elected and keeping him there. Even an idiot would realize, Putin would only support someone who was LESS likely to be a threat, not more. I think I need to take a break from the news. And I do hope anyone who does want to support Ukraine, the best way is the west to show a united front against Russia. Russia is the enemy

The alt-right forums I frequent are all over the place. There are the Tucker traitors who support Russia, the "Biden supports Ukraine because of Hunter's bribes" group, and the "We need a real man to protect us/Europe/Ukraine" group. Oh, there's also a small group that insists the invasion is fake.

One thing they all agree on is that it's Obama's Hillary's Biden's fault.

[Glenstache]

And Trump directly supporting Putin looks like..
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/trump-russia.html

“I mean he’s taking over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Putin to donors and Republican lawmakers at Mar-a-Lago, his private club, on Wednesday. “I’d say that’s pretty smart.”

[Scandium]

And Trump directly supporting Putin looks like..
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/trump-russia.html

“I mean he’s taking over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Putin to donors and Republican lawmakers at Mar-a-Lago, his private club, on Wednesday. “I’d say that’s pretty smart.”

He really is the most republican republican, totally mask off. Putin is invading a sovereign country and killing tons of people, but it's a good deal so it's OK, so smart.
Completely amoral greed, I suppose it's refreshing

[partgypsy]

And Trump directly supporting Putin looks like..
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/trump-russia.html

“I mean he’s taking over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Putin to donors and Republican lawmakers at Mar-a-Lago, his private club, on Wednesday. “I’d say that’s pretty smart.”

He really is the most republican republican, totally mask off. Putin is invading a sovereign country and killing tons of people, but it's a good deal so it's OK, so smart.
Completely amoral greed, I suppose it's refreshing

. He really is, the worst. And I don't say this lightly but Putin reminds me of Hitler, but with nukes...

[partgypsy]

I don't watch Fox News, but am I naive to be surprised that Tucker Carlson is so pro Putin? I don't understand how conservatives reserve the epithet for democrats being "socialist" or "communists" yet, fawn over Putin even when he is literally threatening the US and our allies? I am dumbfounded. Especially as I am old enough to have grown up through part of the cold war where the Republicans were the most hawkish.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucker-carlson-russian-television/

[OtherJen]

I don't watch Fox News, but am I naive to be surprised that Tucker Carlson is so pro Putin? I don't understand how conservatives reserve the epithet for democrats being "socialist" or "communists" yet, fawn over Putin even when he is literally threatening the US and our allies? I am dumbfounded. Especially as I am old enough to have grown up through part of the cold war where the Republicans were the most hawkish.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucker-carlson-russian-television/

Yes. A popular American media figure who claims to be a patriot is giving aid to a former-KGB dictator who is attempting to reclaim Soviet glory. And the right wing is fine with this. Ronald Reagan must be spinning in his grave.

[Travis]

I don't watch Fox News, but am I naive to be surprised that Tucker Carlson is so pro Putin? I don't understand how conservatives reserve the epithet for democrats being "socialist" or "communists" yet, fawn over Putin even when he is literally threatening the US and our allies? I am dumbfounded. Especially as I am old enough to have grown up through part of the cold war where the Republicans were the most hawkish.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucker-carlson-russian-television/

Carlson is a professional contrarian.  He'll say whatever is in line with Trump, or at the very least opposite of what the Democrats are doing. When the winds shift he very publicly gets stuck talking out both sides of his mouth, but keeps driving on with whatever he's going to say next.

[nereo]

I don't watch Fox News, but am I naive to be surprised that Tucker Carlson is so pro Putin? I don't understand how conservatives reserve the epithet for democrats being "socialist" or "communists" yet, fawn over Putin even when he is literally threatening the US and our allies? I am dumbfounded. Especially as I am old enough to have grown up through part of the cold war where the Republicans were the most hawkish.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucker-carlson-russian-television/

Carlson is a professional contrarian.  He'll say whatever is in line
with Trump, or at the very least opposite of what the Democrats are doing. When the winds shift he very publicly gets stuck talking out both sides of his mouth, but keeps driving on with whatever he's going to say next.

True. But with Trump as their standard bearer the GOP gutted support for Ukraine in their 2016 platform and continued to take a much more pro Russia stance for your next four years

[OtherJen]

I don't watch Fox News, but am I naive to be surprised that Tucker Carlson is so pro Putin? I don't understand how conservatives reserve the epithet for democrats being "socialist" or "communists" yet, fawn over Putin even when he is literally threatening the US and our allies? I am dumbfounded. Especially as I am old enough to have grown up through part of the cold war where the Republicans were the most hawkish.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucker-carlson-russian-television/

Carlson is a professional contrarian.  He'll say whatever is in line with Trump, or at the very least opposite of what the Democrats are doing. When the winds shift he very publicly gets stuck talking out both sides of his mouth, but keeps driving on with whatever he's going to say next.

Also, no one should be surprised when Carlson starts spewing bigotry. According to him, it's worse for a rich white man (himself) to be called a racist than it is for Putin to invade a sovereign country with the intent to overthrow its government.

Carlson's gonna Carlson: Tucker Carlson condemned for Ketanji Brown Jackson ‘Rwanda’ comments (Guardian, February 26, 2022)

The nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson is an attempt to “defile” the supreme court and “humiliate and degrade” the US, the Fox News anchor Tucker Carlson claimed on Friday night.

If confirmed, Jackson, whose nomination was announced by Joe Biden earlier on Friday, will be the first Black woman on the court.

Carlson said Jackson was nominated “because of how she looks”. He said: “Do you want to live in that country? Most people don’t, of all colors. They think you should be elevated in America based on what you do, on the choices not on how you were born, not on your DNA, because that’s Rwanda.”

[PDXTabs]

CNN: 'I've got morons on my team': Romney blasts fellow GOP members for attending White nationalist event and supporting Putin

[Virtus3]

CNN: 'I've got morons on my team': Romney blasts fellow GOP members for attending White nationalist event and supporting Putin

Romney is one of the few Republicans I still have any respect for.

[Just Joe]

CNN: 'I've got morons on my team': Romney blasts fellow GOP members for attending White nationalist event and supporting Putin

Romney is one of the few Republicans I still have any respect for.

Yes!

[talltexan]

News broke yesterday of the Jacobs-Eastman email exchange that occurred over January 5-6, 2021. Sigh.

[brandon1827]

January 6 Committee apparently has enough evidence that Trump (personally and his team) committed crimes. They made the info public in an informal referral to DOJ...but with Merrick Garland there, nothing will likely ever come of it

[talltexan]

I feel like Trump's fame is a kind of shield against ever being convicted by a jury. So why should Garland expend the resources to prosecute him?

[OtherJen]

January 6 Committee apparently has enough evidence that Trump (personally and his team) committed crimes. They made the info public in an informal referral to DOJ...but with Merrick Garland there, nothing will likely ever come of it

I suspect that this is where it will stop.

[brandon1827]

I feel like Trump's fame is a kind of shield against ever being convicted by a jury. So why should Garland expend the resources to prosecute him?

Because he committed felonies...and because he's never been held accountable in his life...and to stomp out the possibility that he can run in 2024

[talltexan]

Is there a law that says someone who is incarcerated cannot appear on the state ballot for President?

Again, I do not think he would go to jail even if he were tried.