Author Topic: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President  (Read 123098 times)

Travis

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #850 on: June 08, 2023, 08:28:52 PM »

Well, well, well. If it isn't the consequences of my own actions.

Speaking of...

Trump indicted on multiple charges related to Espionage Act. He'll be booked on Tuesday in Florida.

https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1666993957400707074?s=46

And like clockwork...

https://twitter.com/ByChrisBrennan/status/1666955482886549504

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #851 on: June 09, 2023, 06:00:04 AM »
Too bad we can't vote on what his punishment should be.  I'd probably go with whatever the Coen brothers come up with. 

Just Joe

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #852 on: June 09, 2023, 07:36:20 AM »
Maybe Trump should flee to Russia... ;)

GuitarStv

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #853 on: June 09, 2023, 07:37:50 AM »
So . . . it will take a while for Trump to actually get through his legal case.  What happens if he wins the presidency and then is found guilty?  In the US a sitting president is not subject to the law . . . so . . . nothing then?

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #854 on: June 09, 2023, 08:20:05 AM »
So . . . it will take a while for Trump to actually get through his legal case.  What happens if he wins the presidency and then is found guilty? 

If he is found guilty after winning the presidency there would almost certainly be calls for his impeachment. Whether he'd be removed would depend greatly on the makeup of the Senate in ~2024. Unlike the previous two impeachments, I could see a number of GOP joining Dems to toss him out this time, as he'd be a term-limited and the alternative (whomever is his VP becoming President for 3-4 years) might be more palpable than enduring even more criminal trials, outrages, etc.

Or of course they could circle the wagons again...

Greystache

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #855 on: June 09, 2023, 08:22:29 AM »
That has been the strategy all along. Delay, file motion after motion, and bet the DOJ will not go to trial too close to the election. If he should win the election, then his new AG will drop the case.  If he loses, then plead to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist.

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #856 on: June 09, 2023, 08:28:01 AM »
That has been the strategy all along. Delay, file motion after motion, and bet the DOJ will not go to trial too close to the election. If he should win the election, then his new AG will drop the case.  If he loses, then plead to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist.

Holy crap - I can't imagine what kind of firestorm would be brought down on a new AG who dropped a case for his boss 18 months after indictment, after (presumably) the trail date had been set.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #857 on: June 09, 2023, 08:42:16 AM »
That has been the strategy all along. Delay, file motion after motion, and bet the DOJ will not go to trial too close to the election. If he should win the election, then his new AG will drop the case.  If he loses, then plead to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist.

Yep.  He has to get through the NY state indictment first and no attorney wants to try the federal case at the same time.  Which pushes the federal case out to near or beyond the election date.  If he wins he can instruct the Dept of Justice to drop it. 
And he remains the GOP frontrunner.  What a disgrace.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #858 on: June 09, 2023, 09:30:25 AM »
That has been the strategy all along. Delay, file motion after motion, and bet the DOJ will not go to trial too close to the election. If he should win the election, then his new AG will drop the case.  If he loses, then plead to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist.

Yep.  He has to get through the NY state indictment first and no attorney wants to try the federal case at the same time.  Which pushes the federal case out to near or beyond the election date.  If he wins he can instruct the Dept of Justice to drop it. 
And he remains the GOP frontrunner.  What a disgrace.




I'd bet against Dark Brandon allowing a peaceful transfer to Trump again. 

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #859 on: June 09, 2023, 09:58:54 AM »
I'd bet against Dark Brandon allowing a peaceful transfer to Trump again.

huh?

dividendman

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #860 on: June 09, 2023, 10:22:00 AM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

GuitarStv

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #861 on: June 09, 2023, 11:28:21 AM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

dividendman

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #862 on: June 09, 2023, 11:46:33 AM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

No, but similarly to pardoning Nixon, there should be a consideration for the country. Also, pardons are legal, and won't absolve Trump of the myriad of state crimes he's committed.

GuitarStv

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #863 on: June 09, 2023, 11:55:56 AM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

No, but similarly to pardoning Nixon, there should be a consideration for the country. Also, pardons are legal, and won't absolve Trump of the myriad of state crimes he's committed.

I don't believe that allowing powerful and influential people to be held to different laws than everyone else in the country is good for the country though.  Even as far back as the Magna Carta people have realized that nobody should be above the law.

Kris

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #864 on: June 09, 2023, 11:57:13 AM »
We as a country are in a very different place than we were during the Watergate scandal. I firmly believe it would do the country more harm than good if Biden pardoned Trump.

dividendman

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #865 on: June 09, 2023, 12:06:16 PM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

No, but similarly to pardoning Nixon, there should be a consideration for the country. Also, pardons are legal, and won't absolve Trump of the myriad of state crimes he's committed.

I don't believe that allowing powerful and influential people to be held to different laws than everyone else in the country is good for the country though.  Even as far back as the Magna Carta people have realized that nobody should be above the law.

Do you think there should ever be pardons for any reason?

bacchi

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #866 on: June 09, 2023, 12:06:52 PM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

No, but similarly to pardoning Nixon, there should be a consideration for the country. Also, pardons are legal, and won't absolve Trump of the myriad of state crimes he's committed.

I don't believe that allowing powerful and influential people to be held to different laws than everyone else in the country is good for the country though.  Even as far back as the Magna Carta people have realized that nobody should be above the law.

Trump even campaigned on protecting classified information.

"No one will be above the law." -- Trump

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #867 on: June 09, 2023, 12:18:12 PM »
For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

You believe that the law should only apply to those who have never been presidents?

No, but similarly to pardoning Nixon, there should be a consideration for the country. Also, pardons are legal, and won't absolve Trump of the myriad of state crimes he's committed.
And if you look back Ford regrets issuing that pardon.  It tanked his election chances and in hindsight led us to where we are today.   The consideration for the country, IMO seems to be the opposite of yours.   Do you seriously entertain the idea that we want to set a precedent that as long as someone gets elected president than can pick and choose which laws apply to them?  Because make no mistake, that is what you are endorsing even though you may not have thought it through.  Trump needs to be tried and if the facts present themselves to conviction, convicted, sentenced and incarcerated.   I argue that the "damage to the country" will be far greater if we look the other way at any level. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #868 on: June 09, 2023, 12:21:36 PM »
Do you think there should ever be pardons for any reason?

Sure!  Plenty of reasons for pardons - for example the make a lot of sense after a person has shown evidence of rehabilitation and an unwillingness/lack of desire to re-offend.  Is there a convincing reason to pardon Trump though?  I don't see one.

jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #869 on: June 09, 2023, 12:23:52 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

Bull-fucken-shit. Trump does not give a crap who pardons him. He doesn't care who his friends were in the past. (Clintons at Trump's 3rd wedding.) He'll coal-roll and steam-roll over anyone and everyone, family included.
Fuck Trump and fuck anyone who defends him. Fuck 'em twice, thrice, until kingdom come.
And as someone who works in FedGov in a SCIF, if I had even a scrap of a page at my home, I'd be in a dark cell for almost 24H a day, within hours of being arrested. I'd get no fucking process like 45, even if I had the money and the lawyers. Different rules for elected officials time and again.

Spare me the "legally it might be good" crap. Trump's been ama-fucken-zing at wrangling and evading and discombobulating the legal process. For this case, and for all his cases. He's the evil mastermind at this shit, along with his army of minions.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 12:26:58 PM by jinga nation »

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #870 on: June 09, 2023, 12:24:10 PM »
If he should win the election,
If this were to happen showing that a majority of the country could care less about laws, we should just abolish all law and move to anarchy, for its where we would be headed anyway.   Only if it were to happen would I ever believe that citizens would be that foolish.   I currently believe he has zero chance in a general election.  He lost by over 7 million votes last time before all the actual indictments and more to come.   What exactly has happened that makes you feel that is recoverable in any way?  He likely has pushed even more than the 7 million people away from him in the intervening years.   

It's one thing to win a primary where there are 20 candidates and you can win with 15% of the vote.   It's something very different to have to get the majority in a two horse race.  Trump focus groups before the 2020 election would have 8-9 out of 10 people raise their hands about voting for him.  The ones I've seen lately it's the opposite.  They might, but are not sure.  That's not someone who's gaining in a general election.

As a poll worker I will Trump has done very well for one thing.  He has gotten people to get out and vote like nothing I've ever seen.   Even in off cycle elections the last 4 years we've had insane turnout even with no candidates on the ballot.   It's refreshing to see people giving a crap again.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 12:30:50 PM by caracarn »

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #871 on: June 09, 2023, 12:26:03 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

Bull-fucken-shit. Trump does not give a crap who pardons him. He doesn't care who his friends were in the past. (Clintons at Trump's 3rd wedding.) He'll coal-roll and steam-roll over anyone and everyone, family included.
Fuck Trump and fuck anyone who defends him. Fuck 'em twice, thrice, until kingdom come.
And as someone who works in FedGov in a SCIF, if I had even a scrap of a page at my home, I'd be in a dark cell for almost 24H a day. I'd get no fucking process like 45, even if I had the money and the lawyers. Different rules for elected officials time and again.
Glad to see it seems there is at least one reasonably sane person in Florida.

jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #872 on: June 09, 2023, 12:30:51 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

Bull-fucken-shit. Trump does not give a crap who pardons him. He doesn't care who his friends were in the past. (Clintons at Trump's 3rd wedding.) He'll coal-roll and steam-roll over anyone and everyone, family included.
Fuck Trump and fuck anyone who defends him. Fuck 'em twice, thrice, until kingdom come.
And as someone who works in FedGov in a SCIF, if I had even a scrap of a page at my home, I'd be in a dark cell for almost 24H a day. I'd get no fucking process like 45, even if I had the money and the lawyers. Different rules for elected officials time and again.
Glad to see it seems there is at least one reasonably sane person in Florida.

Yeah well, 45 ain't our current problem, he's the DoJ's and NY AG's and GOPs problem.
We're trying to deal with the current guvnah's antics, doing nothing for the people fucking over Floridians and spending our money on illegal shit in other states. And again, toothless FBI not doing anything about it. If a private citizen was to do that, locked bars reserved for them ASAP. As I said, different rules for elected officials time and again.

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #873 on: June 09, 2023, 12:33:46 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.

Bull-fucken-shit. Trump does not give a crap who pardons him. He doesn't care who his friends were in the past. (Clintons at Trump's 3rd wedding.) He'll coal-roll and steam-roll over anyone and everyone, family included.
Fuck Trump and fuck anyone who defends him. Fuck 'em twice, thrice, until kingdom come.
And as someone who works in FedGov in a SCIF, if I had even a scrap of a page at my home, I'd be in a dark cell for almost 24H a day. I'd get no fucking process like 45, even if I had the money and the lawyers. Different rules for elected officials time and again.
Glad to see it seems there is at least one reasonably sane person in Florida.

Yeah well, 45 ain't our current problem, he's the DoJ's and NY AG's and GOPs problem.
We're trying to deal with the current guvnah's antics, doing nothing for the people fucking over Floridians and spending our money on illegal shit in other states. And again, toothless FBI not doing anything about it. If a private citizen was to do that, locked bars reserved for them ASAP. As I said, different rules for elected officials time and again.
My parents live in FL, so I'm very familiar.  They are not fans of your leader either.  FL is a preview of what happens when the legislature is one party and what it allows the executive to do.  Hoping enough voters are paying attention (I think they are given the votes recently in WI, Kansas, Montana etc.).  I'm optimistic.

Travis

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« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 02:00:03 PM by Travis »

jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #875 on: June 09, 2023, 03:35:07 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/09/trump-lawyers-quit-classified-documents-case.html

Trump lawyers quit classified documents case.

Quote
    Two lawyers who represented Donald Trump in the months before the former president was indicted on federal charges over his handling of classified documents quit working for him.

    The attorneys, Jim Trusty and John Rowley, did not explain in detail why they had resigned, other than to say that “this is a logical moment” to do so given his indictment Thursday in U.S. District Court in Miami.

    Trump said he would now be represented by Todd Blanche, a New York lawyer who is representing him in another criminal case in Manhattan related to a 2016 hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Bigly.

Mr. Green

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #876 on: June 09, 2023, 04:44:14 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/09/trump-lawyers-quit-classified-documents-case.html

Trump lawyers quit classified documents case.

Quote
    Two lawyers who represented Donald Trump in the months before the former president was indicted on federal charges over his handling of classified documents quit working for him.

    The attorneys, Jim Trusty and John Rowley, did not explain in detail why they had resigned, other than to say that “this is a logical moment” to do so given his indictment Thursday in U.S. District Court in Miami.

    Trump said he would now be represented by Todd Blanche, a New York lawyer who is representing him in another criminal case in Manhattan related to a 2016 hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Bigly.
Sounds like they knew it is going to go very poorly.

Apparently there were nuclear secrets among the cache. Yikes.

As someone who has also worked in a SCIF in a former life, I concur that any of us peons caught with classified material at home wouldn't have a prayer of avoiding jail time.

Wildly enough, Georgia is still working through their investigation of election interference. Could he go 3 for 3?

sonofsven

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #877 on: June 09, 2023, 04:55:20 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/09/trump-lawyers-quit-classified-documents-case.html

Trump lawyers quit classified documents case.

Quote
    Two lawyers who represented Donald Trump in the months before the former president was indicted on federal charges over his handling of classified documents quit working for him.

    The attorneys, Jim Trusty and John Rowley, did not explain in detail why they had resigned, other than to say that “this is a logical moment” to do so given his indictment Thursday in U.S. District Court in Miami.

    Trump said he would now be represented by Todd Blanche, a New York lawyer who is representing him in another criminal case in Manhattan related to a 2016 hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Bigly.

Better Call Saul!
I read that there were more classified docs found that are not included in the evidence; perhaps they were too sensitive?
So it may actually be worse than it appears.

Loretta

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #878 on: June 09, 2023, 05:34:40 PM »
The photos cracked me uptoday—for such a ritzy titzy sounding club it’s so shabby and tacky  :)

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #879 on: June 09, 2023, 05:36:28 PM »

So it may actually be worse than it appears.

In criminal criminal cases, it often is.  The DOJ wants to keep evidence close to the chest until the indictment is unsealed. 

Travis

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #880 on: June 09, 2023, 06:17:57 PM »
The photos cracked me uptoday—for such a ritzy titzy sounding club it’s so shabby and tacky  :)

Once my friends and I got through the charges (if the classification level of the document has to be further classified you're in the big leagues), the rest of the afternoon was spent dunking on that awful bathroom.

jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #881 on: June 09, 2023, 06:32:45 PM »
Walt Nauta, Trump’s valet, retired in 2021 as Senior Chief Petty Officer, an E-8 rank. Would have expected better of him. I know E-5s thru 7 who take document security more seriously. One should never lie to the government’s investigators. They will double and triple check every answer for validation and verification, because if you give them incorrect info, you just gave them another reason to continue questioning. They are thorough AF. Nauta should have known this. Basically thrown his life away for supporting a clown. Let’s see how he defends himself, doubt Trump will pay for Nauta’s lawyers.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #882 on: June 09, 2023, 06:42:20 PM »
Van Jones made a good point on CNN last night:  Why?  Why did Trump take these particular documents?  Why did he refuse to return them when National Archives asked for them - again and again - for almost a year and a half? 

We're all talking about the legalistic details, but we're forgetting to ask the reason why he did this in the first place.  Maybe because it's what so many suspect - that he's made a deal with a foreign government to give up national secrets in exchange for cash. 
What other motive would there be?

jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #883 on: June 09, 2023, 06:56:26 PM »
Van Jones made a good point on CNN last night:  Why?  Why did Trump take these particular documents?  Why did he refuse to return them when National Archives asked for them - again and again - for almost a year and a half? 

We're all talking about the legalistic details, but we're forgetting to ask the reason why he did this in the first place.  Maybe because it's what so many suspect - that he's made a deal with a foreign government to give up national secrets in exchange for cash. 
What other motive would there be?

My guesses:
1. He needs the money, he's bankrupt technically. Appearances are deceiving, everything Trump is a facade.
2. He compromised and owes money to powerful people, who might release info, like alleged pee-pee tapes.
3. He's a greedy fuck who's bleeding more than he's making. Hence the grift.
4. Unaccountable for his actions. No one's in his adult life has every told him No or Stop. He's always had it his way. Now his way is leading to ADX Florence. Hanssen died so there's a cell open for Donnie.
5. He said he was going to run government as a business. What he meant was he was going to monetize government IP and make money off it. He kept on going for one more fake-Ace until he got caught, bigly. Fat fuck forgot this wasn't a game of golf that you can cheat with unlimited mulligans and fake score your card.
7. He staffed his administration with sycophants. When you don't allow external thought and the right advisors, and allow traitors like Flynn and Meadows, etc., you risk making big mistakes, and you don't get told not to do it, and you don't get called out when you do it. Or you think you're so powerful that their opinions don't matter.
8. Narcissist. Explains all his behaviors.
9. He thought he owns everything, and wanted to hold it all, because fear of "Deep State".
10. $2B to Jared was paid up front. These were the docs to be shipped to Saudis and others. Didn't happen in time.

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #884 on: June 09, 2023, 07:29:12 PM »
I think “narcissist” is closest to the truth.  This is a guy who literally had framed, fake Time magazine covers of him in his golf club lounges. My guess is he kept the documents because they were forbidden and it made him feel superior to have them.   Otherwise why would he have bragged about them to so many people who lacked security clearances and ultimately provided the collaboration which got us to this point?

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #885 on: June 09, 2023, 08:35:08 PM »


Wildly enough, Georgia is still working through their investigation of election interference. Could he go 3 for 3?

He'll go 4 for 4.  Jack Smith's office still has the January 6th case and having read the entire 49 page indictment tonight, the thoroughness they were able to uncover evidence with in Trump's own home shows how it will likely be even more damning in a forum with outside groups etc. whose members have already been convicted of seditious conspiracy to turn into cooperating witnesses to get relief from their prison time.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #886 on: June 09, 2023, 09:10:29 PM »
I hope Trump gets a biggly cuddly cellmate, who's willing to give him all of the attention that he craves and deserves. 

Mr. Green

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #887 on: June 09, 2023, 11:44:23 PM »
I don't see prison happening for a former President with a Secret Service detail. Maybe house arrest or something like that but an actual prison where a bunch of regular joes are? Not gonna happen. I'm hoping part of the trade off will be being barred from future office.

caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #888 on: June 10, 2023, 05:14:15 AM »
Glenn Kirschner, a 30 year federal prosecutor, covered this about a month or two ago..   There are federal facilities that he can be housed at and are used for challenging prisoners like this and they simply clear one of those out and it is his new home.   The system has ways to handle former presidents and the Secret Service enters into an agreement with that agency effectively transferring a lot of the control to them knowing their procedures are sound.   The argument that it's "not gonna happen" because SS will not sit in jail with him is just false.   Secret Service will not be inconvenienced and sentenced to sit around with him.  In a facility like that they know he's secure and therefore they adjust any possible protection needs to something that we have not seen, but it does not at all preclude him going to prison.    I have tried to link to things in the past and been asked by others to remove the links, so not sure if I can post the link to that topic by Glenn.  If people feel I can I'm happy to post it here.

The fact the Secret Service quickly released a statement expressing their faith in local law enforcement protocols and are doing nothing special for his joy ride down to Miami shows they are more than happy to have other authorities take protection aspects so there appears to be a path here supported by at least one person with intimate knowledge of how these things actually work, rather than us guessing there is no way it will happen.

Finally, one of the counts he is charged with, if convicted automatically bars him from office.  Keep in mind that there is no way this gets through appeals before his possible election in 2024 so do not count on that to stop this.   The only bar to him regaining the presidency was and is the intelligence of the American electorate.  As I said above, if enough people felt and multiply indicted individual is our best choice for president then we've got other problems.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2023, 05:19:19 AM by caracarn »

LaineyAZ

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #889 on: June 10, 2023, 07:15:33 AM »
My respect for the Secret Service decreased tremendously when they appeared to have erased their texts and other messages from the January 6th insurrection. 
Their cooperation with the January 6th Committee was minimal too, as I recall.
So in my opinion there should be a few of them in prison alongside their former boss.

Just Joe

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #890 on: June 10, 2023, 07:20:13 AM »
This is a guy who literally had framed, fake Time magazine covers of him in his golf club lounges.

Hey now, those were pretty cool in the 1980s and we were 14 years old... In 2023 with grown ass adults? Unless they are for comedy material, not so much...

nereo

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #891 on: June 10, 2023, 12:02:26 PM »
I’m still dumbfounded by the hypocrisy here:  Trump spent much of 2016 hammering Clinton on her treatment of classified emails and the use of a private server as SoS. He frequently called for imprisonment (“lock her up!”), and vowed one of his first acts as president was going to be stricter enforcement on the handling of classified documents.

Now he’s facing 37 counts all relating to his handling of classified documents and his attempts to hide them and lie about their whereabouts.


jinga nation

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #892 on: June 10, 2023, 12:27:10 PM »
I’m still dumbfounded by the hypocrisy here:  Trump spent much of 2016 hammering Clinton on her treatment of classified emails and the use of a private server as SoS. He frequently called for imprisonment (“lock her up!”), and vowed one of his first acts as president was going to be stricter enforcement on the handling of classified documents.

Now he’s facing 37 counts all relating to his handling of classified documents and his attempts to hide them and lie about their whereabouts.

More here on this: https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-indicted-classified-documents-felony-1805561

Quote
Trump signed legislation that year that extended section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, part of which included a change to 18 U.S. Code §1924, increasing the penalty for "unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material" from one to five years.

According to Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute, this upgrades the offense from a misdemeanor to a Class E felony.

Before the legislation was signed, Trump had repeatedly attacked 2016 presidential race rival Hillary Clinton over claims that she had mishandled classified information; she was never charged.

While we don't yet know what legislation Trump will be charged under, the similarity of the wording in this bill to the offense that Jack Smith has been investigating strongly suggests he could be charged with this particular felony.

If he is, whether Trump will face a full five years in prison (which the tweet suggests) remains to be seen. However, the irony that he upgraded the punishment guidelines for the crime which he now appears to facing has not been lost.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #893 on: June 10, 2023, 12:51:11 PM »
I wonder when DOJ will begin indicting Trump's friends & family?  Seeing a group photo of them all in orange will be such a delight for those of us they've wronged.  Confiscating all of the Trump branded golf courses & properties will be icing on the cake. 

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caracarn

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #895 on: June 12, 2023, 02:08:45 PM »
I wonder when DOJ will begin indicting Trump's friends & family?  Seeing a group photo of them all in orange will be such a delight for those of us they've wronged.  Confiscating all of the Trump branded golf courses & properties will be icing on the cake.
I'm not a lawyer, but think it is not really possible the and property gets confiscated for criminal charges.  He's not facing those types of counts.   Perhaps something comes of the NY suit but I think the penalty is jail time and fines not anything like you are hoping for.

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #896 on: June 13, 2023, 06:09:46 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.
. Wtf are you talking about?  No FUCKING way should Biden do this. Trump is a security risk to the entire US. He should be nailed to the wall and made an example so this doesn't happen again for another 200 years.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 06:19:18 PM by partgypsy »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #897 on: June 13, 2023, 07:55:27 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.
. Wtf are you talking about?  No FUCKING way should Biden do this. Trump is a security risk to the entire US. He should be nailed to the wall and made an example so this doesn't happen again for another 200 years.

Given Trump's past history, he would proclaim a pardon proved he was innocent of all wrong-doing and the Dems were out to get him.

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #898 on: June 15, 2023, 01:24:12 PM »
This is a guy who literally had framed, fake Time magazine covers of him in his golf club lounges.

Hey now, those were pretty cool in the 1980s and we were 14 years old... In 2023 with grown ass adults? Unless they are for comedy material, not so much...

dividendman

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Re: Continuing outrages related to our 45th President
« Reply #899 on: June 15, 2023, 01:51:52 PM »
Hopefully Biden pardons Trump of all federal crimes relatively soon.

Politically it will be a good move to take the wind out of Trumps sails (being saved by a "lib"). Somehow I think that Biden pardoning Trump would make him lose the nomination, as crazy as that sounds.

For the country it will be good because putting former presidents in jail, while it is almost assuredly deserved, isn't a good path to go down.

Legally it might be good so Trump can't plead the 5th and will have to testify against others who may have committed crimes as well.
. Wtf are you talking about?  No FUCKING way should Biden do this. Trump is a security risk to the entire US. He should be nailed to the wall and made an example so this doesn't happen again for another 200 years.

It'll be much better for all of us if he loses the next election and THEN gets thrown into jail... ideally by a state government like Georgia.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!