The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...

[Parizade]

Books - I love the feel of a brand new book.  I have 6+ on my unread shelf at any given time.  I don't like used books (unless they are in pristine condition) and really dislike library books (unless I can get them the day they hit the shelf).  I've been giving ebooks a try lately but they are not the same as paper.

I love library books for the very reasons you probably hate them! They're little adventures in themselves. Sometimes you open them and they smell of perfume, or smoke, or sand comes out. Sometimes you find scraps of paper in them, lists or letters, or old library receipts. Sometimes they have little notes written in them where the author got something wrong, or spelling corrected, or odd passages circled. Couple of times I've found some total rants about very small points, which I find entertaining. Once I found one with a great big spider squashed between the pages, which was gross but also interesting. Once I found a $20 note, which was more interesting! I like the library admin stuff also. I can tell which library originally acquired the book by the page number that's stamped with the library name, for instance. Some libraries protect their paperbacks with seal in a certain way, some do it another way. Library books have lives of their own, really.

I thought this was a very pretty little piece of writing, and I plan to stalk AnneGrowsAMustache to make sure I haven't missed any other little gems she may have penned

[DavidAnnArbor]

Books - I love the feel of a brand new book.  I have 6+ on my unread shelf at any given time.  I don't like used books (unless they are in pristine condition) and really dislike library books (unless I can get them the day they hit the shelf).  I've been giving ebooks a try lately but they are not the same as paper.

I love library books for the very reasons you probably hate them! They're little adventures in themselves. Sometimes you open them and they smell of perfume, or smoke, or sand comes out. Sometimes you find scraps of paper in them, lists or letters, or old library receipts. Sometimes they have little notes written in them where the author got something wrong, or spelling corrected, or odd passages circled. Couple of times I've found some total rants about very small points, which I find entertaining. Once I found one with a great big spider squashed between the pages, which was gross but also interesting. Once I found a $20 note, which was more interesting! I like the library admin stuff also. I can tell which library originally acquired the book by the page number that's stamped with the library name, for instance. Some libraries protect their paperbacks with seal in a certain way, some do it another way. Library books have lives of their own, really.

I thought this was a very pretty little piece of writing, and I plan to stalk AnneGrowsAMustache to make sure I haven't missed any other little gems she may have penned

Wow that's inspiring. Now I want to get a library book.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Awww, thanks! I'm so excited that I made this thread!

[zolotiyeruki]

In a thread discussing a recent report that Americans are paying an average of $550/mo car payments:

My car payment was £500, that's about $650

It was only one payment though. I'm quite happy with my 12 year old VW

[Linea_Norway]

About bailing out irresponsible parents...

You love them. We all know this, they know it. They also know that because you love them, they can use that love to manipulate and use you to patch up their grossly neglectful spending.

You need to stop bailing them out because until you do, they won't stop being assholes about money. Until they face actual consequences, they have no reason to stop. You bailing them out gives them the liscense to keep being spendthrifts. You are part of the problem - so step out of it and tell them. Do not buy a house or anything for them. Do not take control of their finances. Do not do anything other than offer to help them sort things and make phone calls or internet research. They are not helpless and you should not be taking over as their parent because they are helpless little children, and if you did do this... you know that they will be angry and resentful of your control even if it was "for their own good" right? Stop it. Just stop.

I'd suggest a hard line in the sand starting now. You've already tried the pay for their mistakes and bills and shit. It didn't work and they obviously didn't appreciate it or feel the least bit embarrassed about it because they not only did not change at all, they got even more in debt and now your father is using blackmail and emotional manipulation to try to get you to pay his bills - as soon as the words about that bullshit "likely going to have a heart attack if this bill isn't paid" left his lips, I would have told him he should be ashamed that he would stoop so low as to try to make his poor decisions and irresponsibility your problem after all you'd done before, and threatening to have a heart attack is just childish and disgusting behavior. And I would have told him that at this point, you'll be happy to call the ambulance or take notes in the emergency room if he's unconscious, but he better never use that sort of gross manipulation on you again or the relationship is over with. And I'd also tell him that he needs to have a serious think on how terrible he's treated you and taken advantage of your love and generocity over the years and this is the straw that may be the breaking of the relationship - that he values his stupid wine and insane spending more than his relationship with his daughter? Oh hell no.


Now that may sound really cold, but what he's doing to you is stone cold manipulative and using you like the Bank of Daughter is WRONG.

If you don't end up strong enough to have that type of convo (above) then you still need to tell them the Bank of Daughter is closed. So nicely:

Mom & Dad, I love you and I'm so sorry things are difficult right now for you, but going forward I am no longer able to give you any more money or bail you out of debts you've incurred. There are agencies out there that can help you find a cheap subsidized place to live if you lose your current housing, and I can help you research debt consolidation and other state/government assistance programs when I have time, but I can't afford to gift you more money or provide any financial assistance any more. You are adults and you are the ones that made this huge problem and aren't taking any steps to fix things for yourselves because you expect me to keep fronting the money to bail you out each time. But I can't be your safety net any more because I am draining my own earnings and endangering my own future to keep doing this over and over again for you. This is hurting me and hurting our relationship and I just can't do this any more. I'm sorry but that's how things are going to be going forward. Please don't try to guilt me or say things like you're going to have a heart attack if this or that doesn't get paid. That is childish and manipulative and I won't entertain any conversations that contain these types of threats or guilt trips.


I'd suggest you try reading a few books (check your local library!) by Susan Forward: Toxic Parents and Emotional Blackmail. There are several others that are great to read, but those two should be easy and fast to get through and help you to see clearly what is going on and how to break that dysfunctional cycle.

This is NOT the same thing as helping out a relative that has had unexpected bad luck or a series of terrible things happen. Of course you'd be there for a friend or family member if you could. But in your parents' case, they are spoiled babies that need to stop being lazy regarding their spending habits and make some hard choices about what is actually a want and what is a need. And they also need to learn that sometimes they don't get to have everything they want exactly when they want it just because they demanded it to be so. If they want to spend like they're rich, they themselves need to be RICH. Simple as that.

[former player]

Here's a happy one -

So, my son said the word "rich" again at bedtime so I said to him, "there's that word 'rich' again, is this something that's been on your mind?  What does 'rich' mean to you?" 

"I dunno, like, a high income or a big bank account?"

"Well, a high income only goes so far . . . if you spend it all, then are you rich?  If you make $100,000 a year but save nothing, are you rich?  If your neighbor makes $50,000 but saves $25,000, is he richer?  It's not necessarily what you make but what you keep."

"Plus taxes," he said, "why do we need taxes?"

"Well, we need taxes to live in a civilized society, to have teachers, and police officers, and roads, military, libraries, all sorts of things.  But even after taxes, most people have the choice to save or to spend.  Some people don't really make enough to save anything, but lots of people do, and they might spend it all and not have anything left.  So do you think that a high income is what makes you rich?"

"Or a big bank account?  How much is in your bank account?"  (This one he asked while half-hiding his face.)

"We have enough.  We have enough to own our own home that no bank can ever take away from us, we have enough to pay our bills and never have our lights turned off and always have food in the house and clothes that fit us and we have enough to buy what we need whenever we need it.  Enough is as good as a feast.  We are, in fact, richer than 99% of humans who have ever lived!  We have wealth that others have only ever dreamed of.  Some people don't have a home, or don't have food every day, or clothes that they need.  We are very fortunate."

"Or, like, maybe a big fancy house?"

"A big fancy house, okay.  Well, if someone lives in a big fancy house but owes the bank lots of money because they had to borrow a lot to live there, do you think that person is richer than someone who lives in a smaller house but who owes no one anything?"

"So, like, you guys could buy a bigger house if you wanted to?"

"Yes, if we wanted to we could.  As you've no doubt heard me tell you before, I grew up in a big house, and I wanted to live in a small house when I grew up, and now I do.  A big house is too much trouble and work for me, plus you can lose things quite easily and then have to run up three flights of stairs to get something from the attic when you're down in the basement, and it's just a hassle, to my way of thinking.  So I'd rather not spend more money to get a bigger house.  That's not something your father and I value.  If someone else values that, that's their prerogative and I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not what I want to do.  Same with cars.  You see a lot of expensive cars in Miami, and if that gives someone joy to spend their money that way, that's up to them, but I just see a car as a way to carry my family and me from here to there in relative comfort, so I don't want to put more money into cars."

"So, we are rich?"

"Yes, we're rich--rich in kisses!!" and I covered his face with kisses and he started to laugh.

[aspiringnomad]

Here's a happy one -

So, my son said the word "rich" again at bedtime so I said to him, "there's that word 'rich' again, is this something that's been on your mind?  What does 'rich' mean to you?" 

"I dunno, like, a high income or a big bank account?"

"Well, a high income only goes so far . . . if you spend it all, then are you rich?  If you make $100,000 a year but save nothing, are you rich?  If your neighbor makes $50,000 but saves $25,000, is he richer?  It's not necessarily what you make but what you keep."

"Plus taxes," he said, "why do we need taxes?"

"Well, we need taxes to live in a civilized society, to have teachers, and police officers, and roads, military, libraries, all sorts of things.  But even after taxes, most people have the choice to save or to spend.  Some people don't really make enough to save anything, but lots of people do, and they might spend it all and not have anything left.  So do you think that a high income is what makes you rich?"

"Or a big bank account?  How much is in your bank account?"  (This one he asked while half-hiding his face.)

"We have enough.  We have enough to own our own home that no bank can ever take away from us, we have enough to pay our bills and never have our lights turned off and always have food in the house and clothes that fit us and we have enough to buy what we need whenever we need it.  Enough is as good as a feast.  We are, in fact, richer than 99% of humans who have ever lived!  We have wealth that others have only ever dreamed of.  Some people don't have a home, or don't have food every day, or clothes that they need.  We are very fortunate."

"Or, like, maybe a big fancy house?"

"A big fancy house, okay.  Well, if someone lives in a big fancy house but owes the bank lots of money because they had to borrow a lot to live there, do you think that person is richer than someone who lives in a smaller house but who owes no one anything?"

"So, like, you guys could buy a bigger house if you wanted to?"

"Yes, if we wanted to we could.  As you've no doubt heard me tell you before, I grew up in a big house, and I wanted to live in a small house when I grew up, and now I do.  A big house is too much trouble and work for me, plus you can lose things quite easily and then have to run up three flights of stairs to get something from the attic when you're down in the basement, and it's just a hassle, to my way of thinking.  So I'd rather not spend more money to get a bigger house.  That's not something your father and I value.  If someone else values that, that's their prerogative and I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not what I want to do.  Same with cars.  You see a lot of expensive cars in Miami, and if that gives someone joy to spend their money that way, that's up to them, but I just see a car as a way to carry my family and me from here to there in relative comfort, so I don't want to put more money into cars."

"So, we are rich?"

"Yes, we're rich--rich in kisses!!" and I covered his face with kisses and he started to laugh.

Nice. Parent of the year nominee right there! Thanks for sharing :)

[marty998]

I'll just leave this here on relationships and unconditional love.

Thank you @Frankies Girl.

Big, scary truth bomb here: there is no such thing as unconditional love in a healthy relationship. That is love beyond reasonable. That is loving a serial killer or abuser or someone that continually hurts you because "he's a good man when he's sober and not smacking me and the kids around" type of love. It twists things around and the fact that you can't take a step back and re-read what you've written here and seen how absolutely sick your entire relationship is... that is super scary.

Unconditional love is a desperate sort of romanticized love that means "you have to forgive me even when I act like a shit to you because you LOOVE me" - it is not real and it is not something to strive for in a mature relationship. At best it is what a parent might feel towards their child - but in a grown up mature relationship - you will always have conditions. Being treated like garbage and never being forgiven for a past mistake, or living sexless for the rest of your life unless she wants to have a kid should be hills to die on.

Just because you made some mistakes and she made some mistakes... so that makes you even/made for each other? No, it doesn't. This is not something you just settle for. You have great reservations, otherwise this wouldn't even be a think to question. LISTEN TO YOUR INNER VOICE.

That whole coming home to an empty house and stopping off to buy her food things and all the stuff you shared mutually over the years and it is just so scary to think about her not being there any more? That's fear of the unknown and being alone and feeling stupid for having invested so much time into this and the next step should just be getting married and popping out kids and ..... it's fear and loss of the familiar and comfortable. You are friends. You are comfortable together. That does NOT mean you are a good couple or should get married.

What you want is a true, deep, and abiding love that is a based on respect, on desire, and true affection and concern for the other person's wellbeing and happiness. It is kindness. It is forgiveness when asked for. It is support when one of you is hurting. It is being open and non-judgmental when someone makes a mistake. It is setting clear boundaries in what you and your partner need from each other and doing your damnedest to follow through with them. It is caring for your partner's needs as if they are your own.

Do you think your girlfriend is considering your feelings over all these years? Do you think it is right to be continually chastized and guilted for things you deeply regret and have apologized for over and over again? Is this how you want the rest of your life to be? Just okay, feeling neglected and sometimes very lonely in this relationship, but hey, at least she's someone to sit on the couch with or go out to dinner right? Warm body without any real connection/affection for the rest of your life - FTW!

It is not holding grudges forever and setting ultimatums. If you have something you want/need from your partner, it means talking through things without threats, or guilt, or "well, you OWE me" bullshit. You work things out and compromise, or you part ways with the understanding that as much as you loved each other, some things just should not be compromised on. Sex, having/not having kids, using a past mistake as a stick to beat you with forever, holding out the carrot of "maybe I'll sex you again if you marry me?" This is a hard line, absolute - dangerous, unhealthy, completely wrong and poisonous.

You've both been drinking the hemlock for so long, you don't realize there is any other way to be, and you're both too scared of leaving and the unknown out there to just make a clean break. And again - look up SUNK COST FALLACY. It applies to relationships too.

I'm gonna check out of this at this point because I think it likely you're not really wanting to do the hard stuff of leaving and starting over. That makes me sad. For the both of you. Because I have zero doubt that you're going to end up with a child or two and divorced and very, very bitter and depressed 5 years from now if not sooner. And it didn't have to be that way if you valued yourself AND HER enough to do the hard but very right thing and break up and get counseling to work through all this stuff so your next relationship could be beautiful.

[Caroline PF]

This post spoke to me. I love the big picture look at the FIREd life.

Reading these responses you'd think us retirees (early or not) do a lot of napping, cooking, and eating and you wouldn't be wrong! :)  Set out like this it could make our days seem pleasant but maybe a bit boring.

So then I thought about how I would have described one of my work days (and I really liked my work).  "Got up at 6. Breakfast, etc. Walked to transit (30 min), transit to work (30 min).  At work: made tea, opened email, handled anything urgent, planned meeting agenda for distribution, met with a small group of direct reports, met with my own boss, ate lunch at desk, had one-one meetings with a couple of reports, drafted a few CCE's (Carefully Crafted Emails) to other units, met a colleague for coffee, transit home (30 min), walked (30 min). Home, read a bit/watched TV, prepped and ate dinner, TV/web, read, bed.

Not very exciting and a lot of it not even very pleasant!  To get the full flavour of my work though, and why a lot of it was satisfying, I'd need to think in terms of annual or even multi-year achievements, e.g. hired and mentored excellent people, developed programs that made an impact, negotiated consensus on tricky issues for worthy ends, and so on.  The values were "work hard, have fun, do good" (Dilbert before Scott Adams went strange...)

So same thing for FIRE, the full flavour isn't in the details of the daily routine, it's in the values that are being expressed; health, family, friends, service, fun, learning, pleasure.   And this is how our daily details add up to something great!

[Budgie]

In the thread on "Our housing prices tripled, and new buyers don't blend into the community"

Here's a hint. People here generally don't like jokes about rape, even if you're being fun and flighty.

Sorry about that, you're right.  I was being careless with language there, I'll be more careful in the future.

Because it is lovely to see someone just acknowledge an error, state intent to do better, and move on. Thank you HBFIRE, for your graceful response.

[Parizade]

It's amazing how difficult people find honesty.  I don't mean this in a critical way, just that people often avoid conflict, which can often compound the original "problem." When my friend suggested an expensive restaurant few months ago, I suggested we pick something a commoner like myself could afford.  A good laugh was had and a more reasonable restaurant was suggested.  We had a great time.  Making light of it while still addressing the issue works well.

I thought this post was so simple, logical, useful and balanced.

[Abe Froman]

THIS one made it real simple - real fast. Thank you CindyBS for your reminder to everyone.

To me the real wealth that money brings has nothing to do with retiring early or buying or not buying some material good, but giving you the opportunity to do whatever is needed in a situation when your life falls apart.

Money gives you to choice to walk away from a job when you are being harassed or abused at work.  Money gives the opportunity to buy a last minute plane ticket and rush across the country when loved one has a stroke.  Money lets you leave an abusive relationship.  Money gives the last few months with your mom as she dies. Etc., etc., etc.

The day we found out my son had cancer (he's doing much, much better now), my world fell apart.  I never gave it a second thought that I would quit working and devote myself to saving him.  I never worried if we had enough to pay the bills, even as they were higher than ever.  I never worried we would lose the house, or get the car repo'd.  I never had to market my son as a product to gain sympathy and donations from others in order to survive.   Most of my frugal behaviors like home cooked meals went out the window when my singular focus was saving him.  Money bought me the ability to be the parent I needed to be at the moment my son needed me the most and not give a crap about anything else.   That is real wealth.

[APowers]

Malkynn, batting 1000 with good insight into human nature, as usual:

OP, you sound exhausted.

Working takes energy, doing work you don't enjoy takes orders of magnitude more energy, studying takes energy, studying while tired takes energy you don't even have, basic adulting takes energy, having fun takes energy, and dealing with a chronic illness takes an ENORMOUS amount of energy.

Something has to give before you will have the capacity to really enjoy life. You need a surplus of psychological and/or physical energy in order to be mentally healthy and happy.
Living in survival mode/ "reserve mode' just isn't fun, and there's really no way to make it fun either. Being physically and emotionally perpetually overdrawn is simply toxic.

A balanced life involves a combination of activities that simultaneously drain and generate energy. A long hard day of challenging work partially drains physical and focus energy, but fuels the satisfaction and excitement energies. However, if you enter into a long and hard work day with too little physical and focus energy, you can't recharge anything and operate only on "reserve mode".

In "reserve mode" you never recharge any energy. This makes all "down time" reserved for sitting the fuck down and doing nothing, which replenishes the baseline energy reserves just enough to maintain "reserve mode", but never lets you reenergize enough to get back up to full capacity. It's why hobbies and socializing are draining and feel like work.

It's like always using your phone in "power save" mode where you never actually get to use your phone's best features. Sure, you can make a call, but what's a smart phone without the capacity to stream cat videos??

As a result, you are living a hollow shell of a life never getting to experience the world in its full colour. You are living perpetually in grey-scale. You can't even know what would make you happy because you've never experienced having enough capacity to ever be overall happy.

We have this bizarre martyr culture where when we start failing due to lack of internal and external resources, we instinctively push ourselves harder, as if a lack of resources is a personal failing and not just a reality of our personal limitations.

It's like someone who runs a marathon being disappointed with their time because they weren't rested enough, so they immediately start running it again right then and there under the premise that if they just try harder that they will go faster, even though they're infinitely more exhausted than when they woke up.

It's illogical. Yet, it's what most people instinctively do.

You look at your lower grades and think of how you should "punish" yourself with harsher study practices. Meanwhile, knowing that you are perfectly capable of performing better, you could look at those grades as a warning sign that you are using up too much of your available resources, and that pushing yourself harder is actually the least efficient option available.

If a shortage of resources is the problem, then aiming to drain even more of those precious resources without cutting back somewhere else is probably the worst move.

You're not wrong, you really aren't living and you can feel it. You are surviving. Survival mode is not living, it's the psychological equivalent of eating only meal replacement shakes. Sure, you will survive, but you aren't eating and enjoying food the way others do. It's not the same experience.

Personally, I consider living in survival mode to be a state of emergency. I think knuckling-down is the worst possible response in that state unless it's absolutely necessary for your literal survival.

Just like financial debt is a hair-on-fire situation, energy debt is an even bigger HAIR-ON-FUCKING-FIRE situation.

Practicing gratitude is one thing, but being complicit in your own self torture is another. If you have any other options available to you to start living a better life, then being grateful for a suboptimal life is nonsense.

Aiming to maintain this state for 12 long years until you can FIRE at 40 sounds insane and self destructive to me. I recommend looking at your life right now and seeing where you can make more space for yourself.

Realistically evaluate your own capacity and try to operate within it. Could you reduce your work load while studying?
Could you quit working altogether and finish school full time?

I'm not actually asking you these questions to answer, I'm posing them as the types of questions you can ask yourself to push yourself out of the parameters that you have likely set for yourself as givens in this current situation. Meanwhile almost nothing is ever actually a given.

Life is a series of trade offs and if your current trades aren't producing happiness, they might be bad deals for YOU.

Just because you *can* do everything, doesn't mean you should and doesn't mean it's the smart or right thing to do. A radical change in plans might be worth considering.

I guarantee you, life will never put external pressure on you to be happy and healthy, so the only pressure to defend your own well being will only ever come from yourself. So if you aren't putting pressure on yourself to protect your own health and happiness, no one will. The only way you can ever truly fail yourself is to not care enough about your own well being.

The most powerful question anyone has ever asked me is : "whose job do you think it is to make sure that your life is a good one?

When people are depleted, almost nothing is fun, and certainly nothing recharges them enough to be able to fully enjoy anything.

Relaxing at home feels like a reasonable facsimile of "fun" when you are exhausted because of the absence of obligation for a period of time, but it's really just a basic recharge of the batteries.

The absence of suffering is not happiness. Happiness, joy, having fun, doing activities, self care, they all take energy.

Everyone has a different capacity and different resources. For someone who has some remaining energy on top of work, adding self care activities is rejuvenating because it uses a small amount of a certain type of energy while intensely recharging other types.

It's the same way that exercise is energizing even though it takes energy to do.

Someone on empty doesn't have the energy to invest in energizing activities, so adding them just feels like more work. Everything feels like work. Existing feels like work, sleeping feels like work, just feeling exhausted feels like work.

Once someone hits that level of empty, there's literally nothing that can be added to their life to add energy, everything is a net energy drain. Even therapy tends to require way too much energy.

The only answer in that state is to take something away reduce the demands on the grid and let it recover from the perpetual brown-out that it's been stuck in.

People can be so deep in energy debt that offering them a free all inclusive beach vacation would be a burden to them and they would only be able to accept if they were allowed an addition week off after returning in order to recover from the demands on traveling.

I only know what OP has shared, but their grim view of their life up to this point as being a vague collection of hard work spells out a pretty clear picture of someone who's energy stores have not been full, possibly ever in their life.

[Playing with Fire UK]

@Malkynn  How did you get to the point of consciously changing your perception?

I am very much struggling with wishing for things in the future and not able to enjoy day to day life as much but can't seem to change.

It's just about making it a top priority.

The problem is that most people don't understand priorities.
Most people think making something a priority means cramming into their existing life by willpower or force.

Like exercise, most people try to willpower themselves to exercise after work, on top of everything else they are already trying to accomplish. It doesn't work because they're not actually prioritizing it over anything else, they're trying to allot extra resources to it that they don't have.

Making something a priority means putting it first and adjusting your *entire life* around it and allotting your resources accordingly.

I now believe that if you aren't happy with your present, you had better have a damn good reason for it: finishing med school, battling cancer, bouncing back from a major business failure, going through a divorce, etc, etc.
Y'know, shit that really throws you for a loop and can take several years to manage.

If you are relatively able bodied, remotely intelligent, and have even a smidge of discipline, you should be able to generate a fulfilling life.

If you aren't...maybe you need to re-evaluate not just your plan, but also your priorities.

If your plan is based solely on the priority of making your future self happy, then you have a glaringly obvious culprit as to why you aren't happy in the present.
You CHOSE not to be. You chose a life and balance of priorities that puts future you ahead of present you.

The biggest problem with choosing future happiness over current happiness is that the more you do it, the more you train yourself to only consider your future self.

You train yourself to devalue your current happiness, which isn't healthy. If you do it long enough, it becomes very hard to stop.

When is enough? When is future-you allowed to be now-you?

It will ALWAYS seem more beneficial to prioritize future-you. It will always seem wiser, more mature, admirable, advisable, and praise-worthy.
Except it's not. In fact, it's pretty fucking pathological actually.

Delayed gratification is wise compared to self-destructive self-indulgence, but that's VERY different from prioritizing present happiness, and that's the part that most people get confused about. We're taught as kids the value of not giving into our short term drives, only NO ONE teaches us about how hard it is to be happy.

People assume happiness is a passive state that occurs when there's an absence of barriers to said happiness.
"I'll be happy when I graduate", "I'll be happy when I have FU money", "I'll be happy when I retire", "I'll be happy when I lose the weight", "I'll be happy when my kid gets into college and I no longer have to worry about all of these extra curriculars", etc, etc.

Happiness is like physical fitness, it takes work every day to maintain it. An obese person who loses weight isn't suddenly fit. They're not obese anymore, which is great, but they still need to exercise in order to get fit.

Happiness is the same. You can remove barriers to make it a lot easier to be happy, but you still have to put in the daily work and make it a daily priority.

So again, if happiness *today* isn't your priority, then how on earth do you expect to be happy in the future? And when exactly will it be appropriate to start working on it?

Your life will never be perfect, you will always have stressed and obligations and retirement won't fix that for you. A certain net worth won't fix that for you.

So you feel like you want to focus on happiness today but you "can't". Well, of course you can't, your priorities and plans probably don't align at all with generating present happiness.

Look carefully at your life choices and your priorities. I bet most of them are future-focused and by design they put your current happiness on the back burner. And don't forget, that that's a choice that you made for yourself.

If you want it to be different, you have ALL of the power to decide to have different priorities. But understand what that means. Understand that that means completely rearranging your entire life around a new priority, not just really wishing things were different and continuing on in the exact same pattern you always have.

The craziest thing about prioritizing present happiness is that it often correlates with higher future happiness as well. People like me and MMM himself have learned though experience that amazing doors open up when you focus on living your best life.

I chose to significantly cut back in my career in order to focus on mental health and happiness, and a few years later, my career has exploded in ways I could never have imagined, because I've focused only on projects that I enjoy and ferociously defended myself against work I don't enjoy.

As a result, my future self actually has a much cushier life than what was initially planned back when my future self was my top priority.

My last note on this very long essay of a post is that focusing on my present happiness has made me much more insightful as to what my future self might actually want.

It's shocking to realize that if you aren't already happy, it's extremely difficult to anticipate what a happy future-you really cares about. It's been eye opening getting to know my happy self and alarming to find that her priorities are WAY OFF what I thought they were back when I was unhappy.

ETA: sorry for the length, I've had way too much coffee this morning, lol

I'm still processing this. It's fantastically insightful. I've never considered that too much self-control and future focus can be harmful rather than admirable. Time to shake up my priorities to focus on now-me, thanks @Malkynn

[Metalcat]

I'm still processing this. It's fantastically insightful. I've never considered that too much self-control and future focus can be harmful rather than admirable. Time to shake up my priorities to focus on now-me, thanks @Malkynn

Yeah...that was a goddamn paradigm shifter for me too.

[dougules]

I'm still processing this. It's fantastically insightful. I've never considered that too much self-control and future focus can be harmful rather than admirable. Time to shake up my priorities to focus on now-me, thanks @Malkynn

Yeah...that was a goddamn paradigm shifter for me too.

Wow.  This really solidified something already kind of had a very vague notion of.  Well-put. 

[mm1970]

I chose to significantly cut back in my career in order to focus on mental health and happiness, and a few years later, my career has exploded in ways I could never have imagined, because I've focused only on projects that I enjoy and ferociously defended myself against work I don't enjoy.

This is really something I need to think about.  I've done a *decent* job at making my job something that I enjoy.  Until the last month, when my boss has been forcefully jamming shit I hate down my throat, and taking away the things I enjoy.

OTOH, I have been focusing on my health and happiness OUTSIDE of work, and have been making work "work around" the rest of my life, as much as I can.

Similarly, one of the things I do for fun is run.  I'm training for a half marathon but I kind of just want to DO it for fun.  All the focus of the coach is on RACING and choosing RACE PACE and setting goals and ... I just want to finish?  And have fun?  And not die?  Which she doesn't like as a goal.  I've raced for time in the past and am just not feeling it right now.  Well, in the last week I've had an epiphany based on a couple of conversations where I said "can't I just ... run ?  And not race ?"  I finally got the YES answer from more than one person.  So yay.  (Including the coach, who mentioned she's RUNNING the race but not RACING.)   So my priorities in this case ... I'm not running so that future me can get a PR or be more fit or whatever.  I'm running because I WANT to and I want to enjoy it.

Such a good post.

[Tracyl-5]

Malkynn, batting 1000 with good insight into human nature, as usual

+1!
I recently stumbled across one of Malkynn's posts in the "how-do-you-motivate-yourself-to-work-1-000-more-days" thread, and realized I have some soul searching to do...  Had no idea about all the amazing gems of advice Malkynn has given out that I'm seeing here!

[APowers]

Malkynn, batting 1000 with good insight into human nature, as usual

+1!
I recently stumbled across one of Malkynn's posts in the "how-do-you-motivate-yourself-to-work-1-000-more-days" thread, and realized I have some soul searching to do...  Had no idea about all the amazing gems of advice Malkynn has given out that I'm seeing here!

And that's *after* she deleted hundreds and hundreds of old posts which were also amazing.

[Dicey]

Malkynn, batting 1000 with good insight into human nature, as usual

+1!
I recently stumbled across one of Malkynn's posts in the "how-do-you-motivate-yourself-to-work-1-000-more-days" thread, and realized I have some soul searching to do...  Had no idea about all the amazing gems of advice Malkynn has given out that I'm seeing here!

And that's *after* she deleted hundreds and hundreds of old posts which were also amazing.

WTF? Why did she do that? I love Malkyn's writing! Boo-hoo!

[Metalcat]

Malkynn, batting 1000 with good insight into human nature, as usual

+1!
I recently stumbled across one of Malkynn's posts in the "how-do-you-motivate-yourself-to-work-1-000-more-days" thread, and realized I have some soul searching to do...  Had no idea about all the amazing gems of advice Malkynn has given out that I'm seeing here!

And that's *after* she deleted hundreds and hundreds of old posts which were also amazing.

WTF? Why did she do that? I love Malkyn's writing! Boo-hoo!

Creepy shit happens online sometimes.
It's all good, I'm fine.

[nereo]

Friendly reminder to all:

This thread is a repository to all the 'Best Posts' made in these forums.  If you wish to comment on the subject or poster, please do so in the relevant thread.  You can find the thread by clicking on the "Quote from: XXXX on XXX....."

Thank you :-)

[Dicey]

This is amazingly helpful:

I wish there were a way to see all my posts on just this topic.  Because I have more I want to contribute, but I think I may have already said them.  :(

Use the print view: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/wordsphrases-i-wish-would-go-away/?action=printpage

And then hit control+f and search for "Post by: BlueHouse"

I see 22 of them.

10-20 seconds per post, I estimate it'll take you 5-10 minutes to read through them all.

Maybe we could have a sticky thread for Forum Tips & Tricks?

Friendly reminder to all:

This thread is a repository to all the 'Best Posts' made in these forums.  If you wish to comment on the subject or poster, please do so in the relevant thread.  You can find the thread by clicking on the "Quote from: XXXX on XXX....."

Thank you :-)

Nereo, I understand your point and agree with you in general, but I'm not going to apologize for expressing concern for a beloved member. And  Malkynn's reminder to be careful with personal information is relevant everywhere :-)

[DadJokes]

What if you lose your job and have no household income? What happens if you then develop a health problem related to stress about that?

Your argument made a lot more sense a decade ago than it does today.  Today, I've already won the game using a buy and hold strategy, and I no longer care about market fluctuations.

Like basically every mustachian who started saving 60% or more of their income during the great recession, I have long since passed the 25x expenses threshold.  I FIRED by buying every month even while people like you told me to wait, and now my investments can provide my income even in the face of another great recession.

Every single early retire like me is proof positive that the mustachian investing mindset works.  Hundreds of forum members have used it to reach FIRE.  By ignoring the doubters and the naysayers, we have made ourselves financially invulnerable to market moves.  So the entire premise of "well, what if prices go down" no longer concerns us.  We're not looking to time the market now, and we got here by not looking to time the market over the past decade.

So I am not worried about losing my job.  I already gave it away, and it was one of the best things I have ever done.  I am also not worried about the stress if having no job, because it turns out that being retired is about the least stressful thing you can do with your life.  You too could be early retired right along with me, if only you had started saving the majority of your paycheck in 2008, every week, instead of holding cash waiting for your dry powder moment.

[BicycleB]

@1WattLightbulb posted an article about a fantastic idea: attaching a horizontal pool noodle to the back of your bike. This could save lives. Wow!!

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/article-why-every-cyclist-needs-a-pool-noodle/msg2378483/#msg2378483

[Dicey]

Another winner from @Malkynn...

This is the MMM forum, not the Marxism 101 and Income Disparity Discussion forum. You may have come to the wrong place.

You're still new here, this is actually a totally normal direction for this thread to go in on this forum.

Interesting, and unfortunate!

Not really...

Threads go off into all sorts of directions that involve discussion of greater societal impacts of our personal life decisions. 

Again, you're new here, so you haven't participated in the same few dozen thread topics that pop up in various forms over and over and over and over.

Do I agree with what everyone says, of course not, but I am happy they participate and keep things interesting.

You will get used to it.
Debates are repetitive, criticisms get very personal, if there's a thread about anything to do with spousal problems a large number of people will jump immediately to telling the OP to break up/get divorced, threads that go political are generally a lost cause, the word "strawman" probably appears in more posts than the word "money", and literally any spending can be simultaneously lauded and maligned with equal intensity, and there are a lot of inside jokes hidden in a lot of threads.

This place is what it is, and within the noise is some absolute brilliance and an astronomical amount of valuable knowledge and resource.

For me, the benefit of participating in a thread like this is not to defend my own position, but to voluntarily expose myself to the arguments around it, because I find it healthy to have my own spending justifications challenged regularly, or even better, to see my position supported in ways that give me pause by posters I regularly disagree with.

Nothing makes you question a position more than thinking "hell yeah!" to a response and then looking at the poster's name and reacting "what the fucking fuck?"

If the thread goes into larger and unexpected territories, all the better for contemplation.

I felt good about hiring my cleaner because she was a young woman starting her own business and charging a non-minimum wage rate.

However, I don't mind reflecting on why I make so much more than she does, why my time is valued so much higher, and if I'm fundamentally okay with that disparity...and why.

If you come here just to be right, you will burn out pretty quickly. You cannot win threads here, you cannot win debates, there will always be someone who is either too stubborn or willing to take the argument into whacky directions.

I've come to love it as a feature of this place instead of be frustrated by it, because at the end of the day, we're really just talking about the same damn few subjects over and over and over where the ultimate conclusion is: well, it depends on your personal decision.

So really, this place can either be ridiculous, entertaining, and regularly brilliant, or it can be sane and fucking dull.

So no, as a very active member here myself, I don't think it's unfortunate at all.

[Obviously for those watching closely, the whole point of my post was to write something long and tangential as a self referential joke to entertain myself because I'm really not all that concerned about what anyone thinks of this place and I'm finding it slow this morning and I don't feel like working yet ;) ]

[bbates728]

@MonkeyJenga had a great line today in response to a claim that FIRE-types are typically type A personalities.

I got to FIRE because I was too lazy to buy things. Retirement suits me.

[MonkeyJenga]

Fitting that my laziest post ever gets me into this thread. :D

[dougules]

Fitting that my laziest post ever gets me into this thread. :D

Is this the shortest post to have made it into this thread?

[markbike528CBX]

Fitting that my laziest post ever gets me into this thread. :D

Is this the shortest post to have made it into this thread?

No :-)

[Linea_Norway]

About getting a job offered elsewhere for someone who is stuck in a relationship that leads nowhere.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Dude. This is not running away from your problems. This is SOLVING YOUR PROBLEMS. This is the literal definition of the perfect answer to everything you've been not dealing with. Your horribly messed-up sexless relationship, your passivity and acceptance of playing the role of martyr, your dead-end job that isn't using your skills or challenging your intelligence or offering you a single rung up the ladder for advancement let alone reasonable pay, a change of scene, a chance to move to someplace where you already have friends and support system there and willing to give you a place to live and help you out and be social with you... great zombie jesus, do you want them to bake you a plate of cookies and give you a back massage in addition before you wake up and see this is the kind of opportunity that most people would kill for? This is the fucking Deus ex machina divine intervention that silly/great movie plots hinge on - you're not possibly going to pass this up are you?

Running away from your problems is EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 7 YEARS. Despite the verb "running" indicating action, you've spent your entire relationship avoiding that giant Very Insanely Big Mess that is your romantic relationship. You've hidden from it, you've avoided it, you've bent yourself into stupid painful shapes pretending that everything is just fine, this is normal, stuff like this is totally okay and you are now numb and distanced from living a real, in living color and with all the amazing colors and sounds and feelings out there... because you've spent the time RUNNING AWAY FROM DEALING WITH IT.

Moving and taking this job is literally whatever higher power/deity/karma/clockwork that you may believe in handing you your golden ticket. This is your out. And it's "easy" like something easy is necessarily a bad thing? Who the fuck cares if it's easy - not that I think it is since we're talking uprooting your entire life and moving to someplace you never even considered before - but if you think this is easy, even better! You've been handed pretty-awful and stuffing down your wants/needs for years... you've earned "easy" at this point!

Do NOT let your girlfriend's pessimism and lack of support blind you to the fact that this is AMAZING opportunity. She is not considering you at all here (again). She is only concerned for her own self - she is selfish and self-centered and needs to grow up. I still don't think she's doing any of this intentionally, but until she gets her own head straight, she isn't fit to be in a relationship... and you are exactly the same. Sad thing is, you need to grow up too, and neither one of you are going to do any growing or maturing or working towards being really content/happy if you stay together. You need to leave. Hell, if you are that nervous, don't sell and just rent the house out, and promise yourself that if you hate San Antonio you can come back there in a year. But GO and commit to doing your damnest to having fun, growing up and work on you.

San Antonio is actually a pretty nifty place - GREAT food, fun stuff to do - amusement parks, sports, nature/state parks, RIVERWALK and FIESTA for the crazy party stuff, lovely people for the most part, museums, beautiful, old world buildings and lots of cool stuff a 20-something guy should be REALLY happy to experience. I personally think San Antonio is one of the best cities in Texas - I'm a transplant myself in one of the not so great cities - but I honestly can't see living anywhere else despite the slightly annoying "crazy Texan" personas you'll meet down here (they put the flag/lone star stuff on EVERYTHING. You'll be fine tho, promise). Heat sucks, but it's pretty nice in the winter months and just wear sunscreen/hats/drink lots of water and get in the shade or A/C if you start feeling too hot. Or go swimming. Or river tubing, or the many waterparks...

Just try it. Even if you hate it, give it one year. You get some space to find who you really are without being tied down to someone that was happy to cripple you emotionally/physically and get some great job and living experience and have the safety net of friends in the area.

Break up with your girlfriend, give her a few weeks to move out, then either put the house up for sale or rent it out. Do NOT contact your old girlfriend and make sure to block her on social media/phone. Do not call her/text/message her. Move to San Antonio and take that job. Date LOTS of different people. Do NOT start any new relationships other than casual stuff (no exclusive dating) for at least 6 months to a year. Get a counselor to work through the relationship stuff and your self worth and confidence.

You are worth more than what you are getting now - both in your career and in your relationship - please don't pass this opportunity up. Someone out there throwing you a lifeline while you're drowning. Just grab onto that rope and don't look back.

[fuzzy math]

In response to someone complaining that low wage workers are lazy and call in sick a lot

Seriously have you ever set foot in any Megacorp at all?

I work for one. No, the 6-figure incomes don't call in sick a lot because their bonus payment depends on it. Instead they call in to say they work from home today or close the door to their office the entire day so nobody knows what they're really doing.

The blue collar workers that we employ, when we are not satisfied with their work we fire them. The white collar workers just get promoted to a different department or are at worst suspended with full pay for 6 months so they can find another job.

Yes, our blue collar workers sometimes don't show up in time or are rude, but on the other hand we time their bathroom breaks and make them work in the heat during summer and in the freezing cold during winter, we let the bosses yell at them. Often blue collar workers are treated with such contempt that it's no wonder they retaliate by breaking the rules. I'm not talking specifically about my current employer but my general experience from my own minimum wage jobs and how I now hear leadership talk about workers. No one has yelled at me anymore since I got my degree.

[marty998]

I like this. Speaks for itself really.

A good policy is to never lend money to anyone whose knees you would be uncomfortable breaking.

[ElleFiji]

@Allie has a delightful post yesterday (ARS had one that came in second), but both are lost in the ether.

[bbates728]

@Allie has a delightful post yesterday (ARS had one that came in second), but both are lost in the ether.

Any hint as to the overall message in their posts?

[ElleFiji]

@Allie has a delightful post yesterday (ARS had one that came in second), but both are lost in the ether.

Any hint as to the overall message in their posts?

The stand out piece for me was "in case you're wondering, and I don't think you ever would, my summer is going great" in response to a banned poster who'd tagged her with the intent to start an argument.

ARS was less pithy, but did a good job of reminding the poster that the new account was welcome to discuss on topic topics

[former player]

Could anyone put this better?  I don't think so.

TL;DR - talk to your wife early and often. Make a plan that is right for both of you.

Wife is 100% on board and has full disclosure. Her visibility of our financial situation is also 100% mostly because I tell her regularly what our investments are and what our net worth is. She probably would be ok with less information.

Once a month she signs into her 401k for the monthly net worth spreadsheet update. She likes the Race To $$$ thread, she calls it “the ranker.” She also asks me, “how is the stock market today?” Not because she cares, but because she wants to humor me.

Back in January she was concerned about the stock market collapse everyone was talking about at her office (she works at a financial publication). She asked if we should sell. I assured her I was buying as much as I could and will not sell unless we run out of grocery money. She trusts me to make the right call.

Left on her own she would probably stash in a savings account and eventually buy real estate when she had enough to pay cash. She doesn’t know about stocks and doesn’t care to learn. She also is very debt adverse. To accommodate this we keep a decent cash cushion, not because I think we should, but because it makes her feel secure. I am also 100% planning on trading my taxable account for a multi family when possible. Again, not because I think real estate is superior, but because it’s something that interest her and will make her feel secure.

It’s all about finding a path you can both walk together. Make compromises, be transparent, offer to educate her, and accept if she doesn’t want to be educated. Build her trust in your ability to provide and you will be able to do whatever you think is best openly. Secrets can only work to break down her trust and cause problems for you in the future.

[Gerard]

Once you start to disengage from the default way of life by driving less, living closer to everything you need, downsizing your too-big house . . . it seems so obvious that it's an interlocking, or mutually reinforcing, set of "needs" the keeps people mortgage-poor, car-poor, stuck in traffic jams on the way to Costco and IKEA to fill up the big house . . . . and on and on. (Because I NEED the car to get to work from the big house which I NEED to relax because of my hard work and commute, which I NEED to do because big houses cost too much close to work, where I NEED to work to earn enough to pay for the car and the house, oh and the suits, which I NEED to keep the job to pay for the car . . . and the PARKING . . .)

Step away from the default way of life. Put down the car keys. Sell the lawnmower. Get a bike and a library card. Your soul will thank you.

Or as I saw it expressed in an article about Japanese salarymen years ago, "I take a train to a job I hate to pay for the train it takes me to get there."

[nereo]

On a post about moving closer to work but paying more, Walt made a very succinct observation:

I think using a percentage makes sense, but only if you include *all* of the costs of the house. You can buy a cheap run-down house far away from work/play/school that will end up making you poor. You can buy an expensive well maintained house close to everything and do much better.

The main point is: commuting costs *are* housing costs (both the gas and vehicle maintenance, and your time/health). The bank might not think of it that way, but you should.

-W

[Basenji]

@tyort1 on minimalism and keeping things that make you very happy

Here's what happened - the impact of the single awesome lamp was actually increased because it didn't have all the other "sort of nice" lamps taking away from it's awesomeness.  It stood out even more BECAUSE it was alone. 

So the moral for me - even if you have lots of nice things, the beauty/impact of them is hugely impaired when you have too many of them.  Thus, I keep ONLY the very, very, very NICEST things and get rid of all the other stuff that's merely "good".

Now, to bring this back to cards and papers - I take the same approach.  I only want to keep the things that have the MOST impact, and bring me the MOST happiness.  IME, those things are actually pretty easy for me to identify!  So I sort those out of the pile first and put them in the "You won't even get this out of my cold, dead hands" box.  Those things are the things I cherish the most and they are sacred. 

The other stuff that makes me "sort of" happy, I toss all that.  Because I don't want the "pretty good" memories to take up any of my headspace and thus distract me from the "super awesome" stuff that I really cherish. 

[zolotiyeruki]

From the "Are we rich or poor?" Thread:

This is one major reason why I won't go to my sister for celebrating the local version of christmas. She gets her kids a bag full of crap with a few expensive toys. My kids get 1 thing, each, paid for by Grandma.

The irritating thing is that when we did participate, she would buy gifts for my kids because she couldn't explain to hers why mine only got one gift. I don't get why her kids wouldn't understand it (8 and 9 at the time) but I think it's mostly because my choices don't match hers and she simply cannot explain because she doesn't get it herself.

[AlanStache]

following

[Hirondelle]

BicycleB having some wise moments and giving the best overview of mustachianism that I've ever seen:

What about when money DOES buy happiness, especially the aspect of where does Original Standard Mustachianism overlap with True Happiness as advertised, and where does it not. Spent half the morning discussing that topic with a buddy, who recently read his fill of MMM's posts in one giant sitting. Our joint tentative conclusion, shared for perspective and discussion, not as recommendation for any one person's life:

1. MMM's prescriptions in totality are a perfect system...for some people, of whom MMM himself is one.
2. Most of his stuff relates to many people, but most people are justly going to pick and choose what to apply and how, because everyone is different.
3. The early stage of the forums included many participants for whom the whole package worked really well, so many first wave forum members did the whole deal - optimized house insulation, frequent bike rides to work, engineer level DIY, producing serious thrift as the engine towards seriously early and perhaps very active retirement from cube jobs. I aspire to their level of action, but am not there myself.
4. My personal theory is that #3 occured as a simple result of search and ad sorting algorithms doing their job properly. The people most like MMM found him first, boom done. The forum didn't start with holy saints and then suffer a fall into modern lazy slacking because society declines or forum newbies are sucky lame asses, it started with full clones (no offense, my dear eco-heroes) and only drew in us half cases later.
5. Forgive my digression in #4 from the topic...it's meant to illustrate and support, but if you disagree, forgive me; return to the main point. Which I shall do momentarily, but in the second wave, the blog's growing numbers brought it to mainstream attention, bringing in the second wave. This is people who love some aspects, such as FI or finding happiness, but are not as predisposed to find happiness in bicycle pedals, swinging hammers, hanging laundry to dry, or in your case OP, cooking. Some will do particular things, but in the new wave, more of us have some exclusions from the Full Mustache Template.
6. In short, there's a spectrum of where happiness is, and where money can buy it.
7. I do think that MMM's ideas about Stoicism, hedonic adapatation and the like have value.
8. I'm still pondering when to apply them in my life and when not to try.
9. We each get to explore that for ourselves.
10. I am glad you have chanced into a happy medium. Enjoy it as long as it works for you!

[ErrantVenture]

Unless you were kidnapped and forced into slave labor, an bad employment contract is by your choice and by your fault to a great extent. Staying longer than you like and sacrificing your ethics and work morale just for the paycheck (or maybe for your children's sake or what not) demonstrates that you were probably not worth hiring in the first place.

When I was a college student working as a waitress, I thought it was so much fun!  I couldn't understand how or why the older servers had such negative attitudes or allowed the random bad customer to get under their skin.  Then I realized that the difference in attitudes was because I had choices in my life.  I was in college, working toward any number of better opportunities.  The older servers were single moms or people with no education, struggling to pay the rent or a kid's medical bill.  Not a lot of choice for them. 
While I'm sure you treat your employees with respect and dignity, not everyone does.  And it often seems that those who supervise the people with fewer choices are sometimes complete jerks. 

As I write this, I am remembering a certain Labor Day weekend where the restaurant manager tried to strong-arm me into working a single shift in the middle of the weekend, despite me giving notice weeks in advance that I wouldn't work that weekend.  I was able to say "no thanks" with the knowledge that it could get me sacked.  It didn't, but it did force the lady with kids to cancel her plans to cover the shifts.
 
Education or savings or plans = options=choice

Reading through the Epic FU money thread. It's instructive.

[markbike528CBX]

While a doomsday prognostication will eventually be correct the following threads show how they can be wrong.
The logical bases of the threads are often identical to new threads. So you can judge the likelyhood of truth of current threads by the fact that prior threads have been wrong.

1/2013  [SP500 = 1462]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/is-now-a-bad-time-to-invest-in-stock-index-funds/
5/2013  [1583]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/starting-today!/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/$80k-sitting-in-cash-bc-scared-of-high-flying-stock-mkt-punch-me/
10/2013  [1695]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/stock-market-expensive-now-alternatives/
5/2014  [1884]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/stock-market-is-high-am-i-too-late/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/is-the-stock-market-too-expensive-to-get-back-in/
7/2014  [1973]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/current-market-has-me-scared-to-invest/
9/2014  [2002]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/is-it-a-good-time-to-invest-new-money/
10/2014  [1946]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/stock-market-would-you-buy-now-or-wait/
1/2015  [2058]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/stock-market-should-i-be-concerned/
3/2015  [2117]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/talk-me-out-of-timing-the-australian-market/
12/2015  [2103]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/where-to-put-a-large-windfall-with-stock-market-near-all-time-highs/
1/2016  [2013]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/about-to-sell-everything-talk-me-off-the-ledge-(or-push-me-off)-please!/
2/2017  [2280]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/does-anyone-think-we-are-in-a-bubble/
4/2017  [2359]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/top-is-in/
6/2017  [2430]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/continue-the-blog-conversation/recession-coming/
8/2017  [2476]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/getting-scared-of-stock-market/
1/2018  [2696]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/nervous-about-the-market/
3/2018  [2678]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/when-would-you-get-back-in/
5/2018  [2655]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investing-in-a-bull-market/
6/2018  [2735]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/moving-to-cash-market-timing-can%27t-believe-it/
10/2018  [2925]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/sell-index-funds-now-for-down-payment-during-recession/
2/2019  [2707]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/welp-i'm-going-to-take-a-stab-at-timing-the-market/
4/2019  [2867]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/buy-vtsax-now-while-its-this-high-or-wait-till-a-drop/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/how-concerned-are-you-about-the-everything-bubble/
5/2019  [2924]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/scared-of-investing-in-the-stock-market-now/
6/2019  [2890]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/uk-tax-discussion/global-index-tracker-is-so-high!-do-i-just-keep-putting-my-money-into-it-anyway/
7/2019 [3026]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/would-you-106836/

Miscellaneous
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/%27but-right-now-the-market-is-at-an-all-time-high-%27/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/the-great-market-crash-of-2016!/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/how-to-deal-with-losing-$117k-in-stock-market/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/anyone-else-feeling-depressed-about-global-equities-10-year-outlook/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/stocks-will-only-return-4-annually-for-next-decade-john-bogle/

Found at https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/would-you-106836/
and represents a S$&@@load of work by @RWD, THANKS!!

[Loren Ver]

That was a fun look through, thanks for posting.  :)

[DadJokes]

You're amazing - thanks for posting all of these.

[RWD]

While a doomsday prognostication will eventually be correct the following threads show how they can be wrong.
The logical bases of the threads are often identical to new threads. So you can judge the likelyhood of truth of current threads by the fact that prior threads have been wrong.

1/2013  [SP500 = 1462]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/is-now-a-bad-time-to-invest-in-stock-index-funds/
[...]
7/2019 [3026]
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/would-you-106836/

Found at https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/would-you-106836/
and represents a S$&@@load of work by @RWD, THANKS!!

That was a fun look through, thanks for posting.  :)

You're amazing - thanks for posting all of these.

Welcome! I just got tired of seeing the same thread over and over again so I decided to make that compilation. I'm sure there will still be plenty more in the future too. And of course since a thread pops up every month or so one will eventually coincide with a crash, but not because of brilliant market timing.

[Brother Esau]

Top is in!

[Brokenreign]

Hopefully I did this right....really enjoyed this post by wenchsenior:

Wow, this hits home. Right from the blog post.

"Then something strange happened.  In early 2012, I got a job that gave me a lot more free time.  It sounds great, but here’s the weird part:  After initially feeling much better, about a year after I started, I developed a mild case of depression."

[ADDED] - But after reading through 8 pages,  doesn't feel too familiar. It seems like Dr.Doom had a small number of challenges... I suspect that my therapy may last longer than 5 sessions, but who knows.  Maybe there's a lynchpin?

I think he had more than 5, he doesn't really even start working on the specific problems until he says appointments "5-6". But yes, his specific issues may well be different. I think the point I was trying to make is more that you're not alone in this, lots of people have issues when confronting middle age, retirement, and other massive life changes. Lord knows I do. Hang in there.

Yes, I do see that.

I have my first therapy next Wednesday and had an initial conversation with the therapist today.  I'm hopeful.

I was listening to the radio today and the announcer said something to the effect that Eminem turns 50 in only a few short years.

<blink><blink> No, that can't be true... He grew up in a trailer park with his mom... That was only a few years ago...

So yeah, still feeling like I literally blinked and all of a sudden, old, not young. It's almost like my brain is capable of time travel but can only seem to go forward and feel nostalgic about the past.

This is truly messing with me. I was at the dentist today...  Looked at the dental hygienist that 6 months ago I would consider being around my moms age... only... I realized that she was my age.....

W.....T.....F....???

Was watching American Beauty last night...  I'm the same age as Lester Burnham (played by Kevin Spacey) in the movie...  He makes a comment about how much the price of weed has gone up since 1973 (movie came out in 1999).  25 years...   The difference of 1973 to 1999 is the same as 1993 to 2019...  One timeline seems like ancient history...  the other seems just like yesterday.

Lester Burnham looks and acts like a grown up to me.  I much more relate to Paul Rudd in "This is 40." Perhaps it's a generational thing?

Mind...blown...   I didn't see this coming. Like a rabbit punch out of nowhere.

Kill me when I start wanting to decorate the home with "old person" paintings of a horse looking at a sunset over a barn.

Welcome to middle age LOL.  I kid (gently), but with real sympathy.   A couple years ago I realized that I was now older than the age of most of the celebrity 'sexy older men' crushes I had in my teens and 20s.  In fact, some of those crushes are DEAD now. 

Life seems to go faster and faster as we get older. I routinely now 'forget' an entire decade when trying to remember dates (it's like my brain just skips the 2000s...I will think: "Oh, that album came out about 15 years ago," when it will actually be 25 years ago). But of course, the 1990s stay vivid in my mind, it being the decade I was in college/having fun/becoming an an adult.  It seems more 'real' to me than the 2000s, in many ways.

I think this is very typical. Midlife crisis is a cliche for a reason.  The 40s are tough psychologically.  For those with kids, many of the kids are approaching college and getting ready to leave the nest.  Most of us are start to deal with the unpleasant realities of our parents' aging/health/financial issues, and sometimes need to restrict our own freedom to help them.  Time seems to rocket by, and yet we often have trouble engaging in/enjoying the moment we're in.  We've made a lot of crucial life decisions by our 40s, and therefore closed off a lot of life possibilities; this can be a shock when we realize it...it can make us feel trapped in a way we weren't in our youth when more options were still 'live'.  Women usually start perimenopause and are beginning to contemplate a future of actual menopause. Men's testosterone levels are dropping, which can lead to body changes and depression. 

Then there's the advent of health problems. My health also took a serious nosedive at age 40 (no more carefree assumptions that my body would just continue functioning as I took for granted for so long). My situation is unusually complex, but many people still deal with sudden realization of consequences of being overweight, or nagging injuries, bad diets, high cholesterol/blood pressure, etc., by their 40s. 

None of this should be a surprise to us: after all, evolutionarily speaking, humans are built to be 'done/cannon fodder' by their mid-40s, post reproductive prime.  But it still feels shocking, almost like we bought into a bad deal, or got scammed.

The good part is that for most people, the psychological turmoil associated with the 40s does ease off eventually, and can be actively worked through faster than that.  My husband (who is 9 years older) struggled with malaise in his 40s, and didn't really try to address it except by increasing his fitness level.  But since hitting his 50s he's been much calmer, happier, more mindful, and more emotionally resilient to the realities of his body and life.    I had all sorts of emotional turmoil from 40-45, as my body seemed to constantly betray me.  I wish I'd really started to attack my psychological state immediately, rather than waiting half of my 40s for things to just work themselves out (news flash: they didn't).  However, once I took the opportunity to try to learn new psychological coping tools (mostly based on mindfulness and cognitive behavioral therapy techniques), as well as starting to prioritize health/exercise, etc. more, things improved notably.  Now, in my late 40s, I feel more optimistic and (especially) resilient than at any time since my 20s. And that's a big deal b/c my baseline had long been to have relatively high anxiety and mild dysthymia.  It's also important b/c the challenges of the 40s are just the beginning of many similar challenges I am going to be facing as I age, assuming I'm lucky enough to live a long time.  And I need these new skills to cope with those inevitable challenges! 

Aging also gives perspective that can be really helpful. It helps you prioritize what's important in life.  It helps you communicate better and with a broader array of people.  E.g., I was recently thinking how much better I can connect to older people emotionally than I could just a few years ago.  No matter how empathetic I tried to be, my younger self couldn't directly relate to a lot of the issues that my older friends and relatives were dealing with. I hadn't lost friends and family, I was healthy, I wasn't grappling with life's disappointments as much.  But all of those are part of life, and now that I've had to deal with some of that myself, I can connect emotionally to an entire chunk of the population in a way I formerly couldn't. Conversely, when I'm doling out life advice to my husband's grad students, I now need to remind myself that they can't necessarily relate to everything I'm telling them, and I can understand why.  It will come to them in time, just as it did me.

I also am definitely much better now than I was in my 20s and 30s at just living in the moment, and appreciating the small things as well as the big things in life.

If I were you, I'd try to tackle this life stage as a crucial opportunity to learn new skills and try new things to actively improve your emotional well-being.  Make sure you don't have any obvious physical problems (e.g., thyroid imbalance) that might be exacerbating your mental state.  Try to absorb yourself in new projects or hobbies that give you a feeling of progress and accomplishment, etc.  Consider cbt therapy or mindfulness practice, etc.

It does get better, with some effort, for most people.  Though I should warn you, some of this mental disorientation never really leaves us.  My 75-year-old mother notes that she still 'feels mentally like she's a 35 year old woman, and has no idea who the hell that wrinkled old lady in the mirror is...sometimes can't even relate to that person at all'.   We just learn to accept it, hopefully with grace.