The Fitness Megathread

[grantmeaname]

I think you would do much better do drop the curls and flyes and replace them with pull-ups and dips

Good idea, I'll look into that.

If I recall correctly, you're a regular cyclist right?  If you're on a bike often, it would be a good idea to incorporate an exercise that works your lower back (cyclists tend to have poor abs and lower back development).  Barbell deadlifts, front squats, or back squats would be much more useful strength exercises to do than leg curls and would work your lower back, abs, and legs all at the same time.

Yeah, I know squats are better than leg press, but when I tried them this summer I just couldn't get my elbows and wrists happy with them on front or back. I'll try those again too.

Are you following a particular program and progression, or are you just doing stuff that seems like exercise?  Trying out a strength program (starting strength is a great one to begin with) will give you structure and clear progression goals.

Just doing stuff that seems like exercise at this point, though I've been having a little success with that. The library will have me a copy of starting strength in approximately seventy years.

[GuitarStv]

Are you following a particular program and progression, or are you just doing stuff that seems like exercise?  Trying out a strength program (starting strength is a great one to begin with) will give you structure and clear progression goals.

Just doing stuff that seems like exercise at this point, though I've been having a little success with that. The library will have me a copy of starting strength in approximately seventy years.

When starting strength training, pretty much any routine will work.  The key to a good program is that it lets you regularly progress, and it develops your strength much quicker than doing random stuff.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program

^ There's enough information there to understand the SS program and the basics of how everything works if you read it through.  It may take several readings for it all to sink in though, there's a lot of stuff.

[moestache]

Hi fitness people, maybe you can help me out with something I've been thinking about -

Because I work out at home and don’t have a squat rack due to not having enough room, I’ve been doing a mix of zerchers, box squats, and lunges instead. However I’m wondering whether there’s any other leg exercises on top of what I’m currently doing that I should add given that I can’t do back squats? Or whether these exercises are too quad focused and not enough of hamstrings? I do deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts as well. The equipment at home are a barbell, 2 dumbbells and a tower for pullups and dips. No bench due to having no room. I’m 53kg/f.

[Kriegsspiel]

I never really liked them, but you can do hack squats (deadlifts with the bar behind you). Some people are built for them.

Also, you can clean the bar up and then do front squats.

[GuitarStv]

Hi fitness people, maybe you can help me out with something I've been thinking about -

Because I work out at home and don’t have a squat rack due to not having enough room, I’ve been doing a mix of zerchers, box squats, and lunges instead. However I’m wondering whether there’s any other leg exercises on top of what I’m currently doing that I should add given that I can’t do back squats? Or whether these exercises are too quad focused and not enough of hamstrings? I do deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts as well. The equipment at home are a barbell, 2 dumbbells and a tower for pullups and dips. No bench due to having no room. I’m 53kg/f.

I made some squat stands using 2x4s and concrete in buckets.  Do a google search, there are tons of tutorials for this, and it's really pretty easy.  The stands work great for 300+ lbs+ and can be moved into a corner when not using them to save space.  A pair of collapsible metal saw horses from Home Depot work well as safeties if you need to bail from under the bar, and like the squat stands they can be moved out of the way pretty easily if you need the space.  The adjustable metal saw horses can also be used to do dips, which is a great exercise if you can't bench.

If that's still not an option, you don't mention front squats.  I find that heavy front squats work the legs, upper back, and REALLY work the abs.  Would always pick 'em over zerchers for that reason.  It's safe to bail from a front squat by just letting the weight fall (although it does nothing good to your bar).  The RDL (and/or Good Mornings) will help even out your legs if you can't back squat, but the back squat really is the best exercise for this.  You might try doing deadlifts with two dumbbells out to your side as well, as this motion is more like a back squat than a barbell deadlift in my experience.

[jba302]

Hi fitness people, maybe you can help me out with something I've been thinking about -

Because I work out at home and don’t have a squat rack due to not having enough room, I’ve been doing a mix of zerchers, box squats, and lunges instead. However I’m wondering whether there’s any other leg exercises on top of what I’m currently doing that I should add given that I can’t do back squats? Or whether these exercises are too quad focused and not enough of hamstrings? I do deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts as well. The equipment at home are a barbell, 2 dumbbells and a tower for pullups and dips. No bench due to having no room. I’m 53kg/f.

How are you doing a box squat if you can't do a back squat?

[moestache]

Kriegsspiel - I haven't tried hack squats so I might try that.

Kriegsspiel & GuitarStv - I haven't been doing front squats as I don't do cleans, I suppose if I started doing them I should be able to start doing front squats too.
I'll give some thought to making a squat stand outside, though I had to google what metal saw horses are! I have a pile of leftover paving bricks lying around outside which could do as weights. Do you have to reinforce the handles on the buckets so they don't break?

jba302 - I should've mentioned I've been doing box squats with dumbbells.

[GuitarStv]

Kriegsspiel - I haven't tried hack squats so I might try that.

Kriegsspiel & GuitarStv - I haven't been doing front squats as I don't do cleans, I suppose if I started doing them I should be able to start doing front squats too.
I'll give some thought to making a squat stand outside, though I had to google what metal saw horses are! I have a pile of leftover paving bricks lying around outside which could do as weights. Do you have to reinforce the handles on the buckets so they don't break?

jba302 - I should've mentioned I've been doing box squats with dumbbells.

This is what I'm talking about with the squat stands:


You basically do the following:

- Get six 2x4s, a couple large buckets, and a two bags of concrete mix from your local hardware store.
- Measure from the ground to your armpit and take off an inch, use this for the center 2x4.  Take that measurement and add an inch for the front board, and you don't have to cut the rear board at all.
- Nail/Glue/Screw the boards together.  (Should go: medium sized, smallest, big 2x4)
- Get some rope and use it to secure the boards standing straight up and down in the buckets.
- Mix the concrete and pour around the boards in the buckets.
- Wait overnight and you have squat stands!
(if you want to get really crazy, you can add two more boards to make uprights for doing a bench press as in the picture above).

They will be pretty heavy, but it should be possible to tilt the buckets on their side and kinda roll the stands into and out of positions.

These saw horses at home depot are good to 2000 lbs:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Crawford-38-in-Adjustable-Folding-Sawhorse-SH38A-16/100003259
and can fold up to be moved around very easily.

You set the adjustable metal saw horses as safeties to catch the bar at the bottom of the bench press or squat:

[AlanStache]

Really like the idea of hack squats for when you dont have a squat stand will have to try it.

But you can do high and low bar back squats without a rack, clean-push press-lower onto back.  Is hard to go heavy so the reps will have to be higher but you can still do it to some level.  To do this you really need to know how to do a clean and press.  Also I dont normally have the power left at the end of a set to press the weight back up and over my head so I have to drop it from the bottom of a squat-this is OK with bumper plates-but not great.

All that said I would make every effort to get a squat rack.  Is great for both squats and over head presses.  You really can only do so much without a squat stand.

[prodarwin]

Really like the idea of hack squats for when you dont have a squat stand will have to try it.

But you can do high and low bar back squats without a rack, clean-push press-lower onto back.  Is hard to go heavy so the reps will have to be higher but you can still do it to some level.  To do this you really need to know how to do a clean and press.  Also I dont normally have the power left at the end of a set to press the weight back up and over my head so I have to drop it from the bottom of a squat-this is OK with bumper plates-but not great.

All that said I would make every effort to get a squat rack.  Is great for both squats and over head presses.  You really can only do so much without a squat stand.

Just do front squats?  Then you don't have to press up and lower onto your back.  As long as you can clean it, you're good.  Plus, if you need to drop it for any reason, it falls forward, you step back.

[AlanStache]

Front squats: I have real trouble with these and putting the load on my wrists, cant keep the elbows up enough for the weight to be on my shoulders.  Can most people do these at responsibly heavy weight?  I have thought about cleaning it than getting my hands out of the clean position and into an overhand crossed position but that just did not seem to work.

[Cromacster]

Front squats: I have real trouble with these and putting the load on my wrists, cant keep the elbows up enough for the weight to be on my shoulders.  Can most people do these at responsibly heavy weight?  I have thought about cleaning it than getting my hands out of the clean position and into an overhand crossed position but that just did not seem to work.

When front squatting the load should not be on the wrist.  This problem is most likely due to poor flexibility in the shoulders and T-spine. 

Are you trying to keep a full grip on the bar?  One tip that might help is to let go with the thumb, and if needed the pinky as well.  the fingers are just there to provide stability, the load should be on your shoulders.  If you can avoid it, don't do the crossover method, you lose some of the benefit of the front squat, which is strengthening the upper back.

[AlanStache]

Yes I have horrible wrist flexibility, my shoulders are not much better.  Also it took most of '13 to get my basic back squats form "f-ing horrible" up to "needs improvement".  My fitness goals are mostly centered around running with lifting to get some upper body and to support the running, so putting real time into addressing wrist flexibility so I can do an alternate form of squat has not been on the list of priorities.  But yes during front squats I would only have the inner two fingers on the bar or at most finger tips - definitely not a full grip.

[prodarwin]

Front squats: I have real trouble with these and putting the load on my wrists, cant keep the elbows up enough for the weight to be on my shoulders.  Can most people do these at responsibly heavy weight? 

Yes, but I am pretty flexible.  I have no problems holding the bar and keeping my elbows straight out or even up.  I can always keep good form with a front squat.  The flexibility will come quickly if you practice though.

IMO, its much easier and much safer than with a back squat.  In a back squat, if your form suffers you round-over and possibly hurt yourself.  In a front squat, if your form suffers, your elbows fall and you drop the weight.

[AlanStache]

Rounded back is never a problem for me with anything.  Its all about lateral knee control, heals staying on the ground while getting proper depth; also I had a tendency to fall back on my ass that I have mostly corrected.  Had worked on flexibility and stuff on its own but the only thing that helped was doing tons of squats with a KB held in front of my chest-this let me balance, get depth and ultimately helped whatever strength/flexibility thing I had going on.

[jba302]

Rounded back is never a problem for me with anything.  Its all about lateral knee control, heals staying on the ground while getting proper depth; also I had a tendency to fall back on my ass that I have mostly corrected.  Had worked on flexibility and stuff on its own but the only thing that helped was doing tons of squats with a KB held in front of my chest-this let me balance, get depth and ultimately helped whatever strength/flexibility thing I had going on.

Sounds like someone could use an IT band release. Preferably proceeded by a glass of scotch.

[fallstoclimb]

Is it weird that I now sit at my cube flexing my arms and touching my new muscles?  :)

Super impressed by how much muscle I've put on already -- I might turn out to be one of those ladies who bulks up, but I have no problem with that!

Question, though, on hip drive during the squat.  I watched a Rip video and he seemed to be coaching the kid to initiate hip drive by raising his butt out of the squat before / to the detriment of the chest -- the back ends up pretty horizontal.  I do find this makes it easier to get out of the hole with the weight but is it really correct form for my back to end up so low before bringing my chest up last?  Sometimes I feel the bar scoot up a TINY TINY bit and I have fear of somehow losing the bar over my head/on my neck (I realize this would be an insane thing to happen). 

[Cromacster]

I haven't seen the video by rippetoe.....Is he teaching the low bar back squat?  That technique sounds more in line with the low bar.

If you are doing high bar back squat I would not suggest raising your butt first, but instead to focus on leading with your shoulders out of the hole.  It might happen anyway, especially in new(er) lifters as they get closer to max lifts.  From my understanding this is due to the lack of strength in the back as well as flexibility issues.

[fallstoclimb]

Yes, sorry, I should have said it was low bar, which is what I am doing/intending to do. 

[Cromacster]

Yes, sorry, I should have said it was low bar, which is what I am doing/intending to do.

Then ignore what I said.  Sorry, I do not have any experience with the low bar!

[fallstoclimb]

For more context, this is the video I was talking about:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

And in a quick google to find this, I also found a bunch of discussions about the 'Rippetoe hip drive controversy' so maybe this one isn't settled yet!  I for sure felt stronger / could handle the weight easier when I focused on raising my hips first to get out of the hole though, it just seems a little awkward. 

[jba302]

Yes, hips initiate the ascent. You should not be losing the bar forward though, that's too far. You could post a vid, or alternatively, if you can measure you shin length, femur length, and torso length, I could give you an angle idea of where you need to be. I know I have to squat wide simply because my femurs are so long compared to my torso that I cannot squat properly otherwise.

[Kriegsspiel]

Squatting is probably the most difficult lift to teach other people, or talk about on the internet. It's so different for everyone. Paul had a good write up on lift-run-bang, if you google it you might find it. I'd suggest reading and watching a lot of instructional videos until you find a style that suits you.

[fallstoclimb]

I took a video, but I haven't been able to get a helpful angle on my phone enough to actually show anything (I'm working out in a fairly cramped space).  I'll see if I can post measurements later.  I think I might just need to focus on STARTING with my hips but really keeping my chest up at the same time/shortly thereafter? 

[AlanStache]

Have not used them myself but I understand there are app's that will do some barbell lift analysis without you having to upload video to the wider web.  Would still require a good angle for the video.  This still does not solve the problem of what you should be doing...

[jba302]

Squatting is probably the most difficult lift to teach other people, or talk about on the internet. It's so different for everyone. Paul had a good write up on lift-run-bang, if you google it you might find it. I'd suggest reading and watching a lot of instructional videos until you find a style that suits you.

Paul squats low bar the way rippetoe teaches. He's also anthropometrically good at squatting. If you want to see a poorly-built squatter moving big weight, Layne Norton -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl0RF65VLHQ

A good instructional cue on initiating the squat is to have someone put their hand on your lower back / upper hip when you start the ascent (not unweighted, but use a very light weight as it can be surprisingly hard). This is a very good cue to give you the correct feeling of a hip-initiated start. You can also do air squats pushed up against a wall to work on glute activation, though I don't like this one because it doesn't allow forward knee movement.

I don't disagree that it can be difficult to explain this over the internet, but it's not prohibitively so. Again a side video is best, but without a video, the measurements will at least give me a touch point to work with and to know if there's a anthropometric reason you are losing it forward or if it's more a cuing / stance issue.

[fallstoclimb]

OK, I put a video up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa8Rb1CCM4o

Sorry the angle isn't great but my garage is pretty cramped.

So to me (being a total novice here!) it looks like the biggest problems are:

1) My wrists are way too bent -- I know what they are supposed to look like but I have flexibility problems here. 
2) The bar is maybe too high for low bar?
3) It looks like my chest is going way too low although I'm wondering if some of that is the angle.  I don't feel like I get THAT low. 
4) It also looks like I might be getting up on my toes a little bit, although I don't really feel that when I lift?
5) Also I don't think I stand up all the way really, my back angle stays forward.


I'd love some useful criticism, but please also keep in mind that I am totally new to this and basically learning out of books!  This was my first time squatting 85 lbs and it wasn't easy for me. 

I couldn't find guidance on how exactly to measure so I put how I did it:

Shin length (top of foot to bottom of knee) -- 31 cm
Femur length (top of knee to hip flexor) --  35 cm
Torso length (hip flexor to top of shoulder) -- 50 cm

I *think* I have sort of long femurs (relative to my shins) and a short torso.

[jba302]

Actually your femur:torso is fine which is good news. My femurs are a little longer than my torso :).

Yes, you need to work on straightening your wrists as you said. That's just mobility that you can work towards. I like that bar position, it's right on the top of your posterior deltoids.

One thing that pops out to me is that there seems to be a lack of trust in your hamstrings in the descent (and/or there is a flexibility issue in your hamstrings / calves). Keep the weight back, descend onto your hamstrings and dig your heels into the ground. Don't think you are going to fall backwards, which is what it looks like in the video.  I think this is the biggest thing that is correctable. People tend to feel like they are going to fall backwards when they start squatting low bar and this is an over-compensation to that feeling. When you correct this, then your heels will be digging into the ground as you stand up and it should naturally correct the heels up issue.

To give you a visual of how far back you can go and not fall, this is mine. Keep in mind that my femurs are -longer- than my torso, so I am naturally going to be centered behind midfoot when I squat down. This is one of the better examples I can find, which meant I probably stretched my hamstrings and hips every day for a week leading into it -
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10103075574515830&l=5685195645861883080

A final cue is "chest out." Don't let your chest cave in when you squat. Big chest, like you are trying to show off the girls in a club.

My prior suggestions I would keep in as well. Wall squats to feel your glutes/hams fire, get someone to put their hand on your lower back and you'll know what "hip drive" feels like.

[fallstoclimb]

One thing that pops out to me is that there seems to be a lack of trust in your hamstrings in the descent (and/or there is a flexibility issue in your hamstrings / calves). Keep the weight back, descend onto your hamstrings and dig your heels into the ground. Don't think you are going to fall backwards, which is what it looks like in the video.  I think this is the biggest thing that is correctable. People tend to feel like they are going to fall backwards when they start squatting low bar and this is an over-compensation to that feeling. When you correct this, then your heels will be digging into the ground as you stand up and it should naturally correct the heels up issue.

I'm not sure if I really understand what you're saying here.  Is this basically displaying itself as me keeping my weight on my toes?  So I should just focus on driving through my heels?  Or do my hips need to go further BACK? 

I will say that as a cyclist, I do have tight hamstrings and my quads are where my strength is, so I know where the problem is coming from.  Just not sure how to fix it.  I do stretch fairly regularly.

[annaraven]

Drive through your heels, imho.

[jba302]

I'm not sure if I really understand what you're saying here.  Is this basically displaying itself as me keeping my weight on my toes?  So I should just focus on driving through my heels?  Or do my hips need to go further BACK? 

I will say that as a cyclist, I do have tight hamstrings and my quads are where my strength is, so I know where the problem is coming from.  Just not sure how to fix it.  I do stretch fairly regularly.

Yes. It seems you understand my rambling quite well. You are putting the weight too far forward, and need to be driving through your heels.

Try the hand on the lower back thing, and do wall squats (apparently this is not called a wall squat but I don't know what else to call it)-

[fallstoclimb]

Oh, the picture helps.  I thought you were telling me to do squats with my back against a wall and I didn't see how that would help the problem!

[AlanStache]

Also what worked for me was LOTS of "kettlebell goblet squats" -google it and really thinking about chest up with very little weight on your toes.  Personally I like thinking about initiating movement from the butt.  I had trouble doing the wall thing as I could not even do that well enough to get much out of it, I would fall on my ass or be 3' away from the wall.  I dont know my measurements but I am all leg, only 5'11" and most stores dont sell jeans long enough.

[fallstoclimb]

Being that we are MMM here, what do we think about squat shoes?  I may be able to track down a pair of children's converses that would work for my tiny feet.  Not super excited to spend money on shoes I will only wear on my garage, but barefoot squatting is not an option on that concrete floor in winter, and while the new balances I am using are somewhat old school they still have a bit of cushioning.  Will it actually make a difference to go to something with no cushioning? 

[AlanStache]

I work mostly bare foot in summer then in five fingers in winter-yes the floor is cold.  You may want to try putting a thin block of wood under you heals, 1/2 inch-ish or less; or one five LB plate under each heal can do something similar.

[jba302]

Try squatting barefoot. If you prefer heeled over barefoot then I would recommend buying lifting shoes at some point (I wear rogues and really like them). If you take care of them they will last a decade. If you prefer barefoot then I'd go with something like wrestling shoes. It's not critical by any means but the support of a solid heel is noticeable over a gym shoe.

[Cromacster]

I have Nike Romaleos's 2 (for free from a guy who didn't like them, they happened to be my size woot!).  I love em.  I still reality check once a month or so and squat in flats to check that I'm keeping up with my calf and ankle maintenance.

[GuitarStv]

I second the wrestling shoes idea . . . It's what I would use if I couldn't go barefoot.

[Kriegsspiel]

I've had a pair of Adidas Equipment shoes for... oh, about a decade now. They have a pretty high heel. Obviously if you just use them for lifting weights, they'll last forever. I had to gorilla glue the bottom a bit, but other than that they keep on trucking.

[moestache]

So I tried hack squats for the first time. When I'm lifting the bar from the ground, it hits the back of my legs, I've watched several videos online but I can't figure out what it is I'm doing wrong?

[jba302]

Post a video, it might be fine.

[fallstoclimb]

Has anyone read Rippetoe's Practical Programming book?  (I'm assuming yes).  The Starting Strength program is all well and good for me this winter, as a total novice, but once spring hits I'm going to start training on the bike again and will probably only have two days for lifting.  Will Practical Programming discuss how to do this, or is the book geared more towards people prioritizing strength training over all else?

It makes me a little uneasy I don't know what my goals are, with this.  I'm a goal-setter / planner.  I set 2014 lifting goals but I suspect I'll hit most of them by spring, and really I care more about being healthy / strong / injury free than anything else.  My squat is up to 100, my goal is 125 (I know, there's probably no reason I won't hit that soon, and I think I still have a "lady weights" approach to this) -- I just don't really know where to...go...from there.  Keep working up to alarming weights?  Just do 125 forever?  Is that "maintaining" strength or will I plateau?

[Cromacster]

Has anyone read Rippetoe's Practical Programming book?  (I'm assuming yes).  The Starting Strength program is all well and good for me this winter, as a total novice, but once spring hits I'm going to start training on the bike again and will probably only have two days for lifting.  Will Practical Programming discuss how to do this, or is the book geared more towards people prioritizing strength training over all else?

It makes me a little uneasy I don't know what my goals are, with this.  I'm a goal-setter / planner.  I set 2014 lifting goals but I suspect I'll hit most of them by spring, and really I care more about being healthy / strong / injury free than anything else.  My squat is up to 100, my goal is 125 (I know, there's probably no reason I won't hit that soon, and I think I still have a "lady weights" approach to this) -- I just don't really know where to...go...from there.  Keep working up to alarming weights?  Just do 125 forever?  Is that "maintaining" strength or will I plateau?

For most purposes squatting 2x a week will be enough to make gains and maintain at your level.  Others who have a better idea of programming can chime in (I do not have much experience), but.  If I was squating 2x a week.  I would have Day 1 alternate between 1rm or 2rm.  Then Day 2 alternate between 5rm or 8rm.  Starting with the empty bar, climbing by 10-20lb jumps.

You won't plateau anytime soon, by that I mean years and years.  That term gets thrown around a little too loosely.  It typically refers to top level lifters, who essentially get to a point where they can't become any stronger...where a 800lb squat turns into a 801lb squat after a few months of hard training (and they celebrate the shit out of that 1lb).  Your average lifter (ie you me most likely anyone reading this) will never hit what a true plateau.  If anything the reason you won't see any gains is because you aren't getting under the bar enough.

[GuitarStv]

Not sure I completely agree with the above.  You get to a point after a couple years where it's difficult to consistently make gains on your heaviest lifts.  You'll fail for a variety of reasons . . . lack of sleep, bad nutrition, lack of rest/overtraining, too much rest/undertraining.  Not getting under the bar enough is only one of many causes of a stall.

[fallstoclimb]

Sure, but my question is what if I don't want to keep moderately increasing my lifts forever?  Maybe this is just a naive novice idea to have, but there's probably a law of diminishing returns here, right?  Especially since my goal is to use weightlifting more as cross training.  Can it be effective crosstraining if I stop increasing lifts eventually and just do the same weight always? 

[GuitarStv]

Sure, but my question is what if I don't want to keep moderately increasing my lifts forever?  Maybe this is just a naive novice idea to have, but there's probably a law of diminishing returns here, right?  Especially since my goal is to use weightlifting more as cross training.  Can it be effective crosstraining if I stop increasing lifts eventually and just do the same weight always?

Yep.  You'll maintain strength without gaining or losing it.

This tends to be self imposed if you're really serious about the sport you're pursuing anyways . . . because you'll spend more time and energy on the sport than on weight lifting, you'll hit a wall where the strength increases stop coming a lot quicker.

[jba302]

Sure, but my question is what if I don't want to keep moderately increasing my lifts forever?  Maybe this is just a naive novice idea to have, but there's probably a law of diminishing returns here, right?  Especially since my goal is to use weightlifting more as cross training.  Can it be effective crosstraining if I stop increasing lifts eventually and just do the same weight always?

Yea at some point it becomes a choice between focusing on pure absurd strength and heading somewhere else. You can't run a 4 hour marathon and squat 500 pounds on the same program, I think at least. There is a finite limit on your fitness modalities both individually and cumulatively.  Some combine nicely and others don't as much (sprinters have strong legs - strength helps with speed generation to a point, but high cardio doesn't work with high strength as examples). These are also high end limits, it's pretty easy to keep moderate to advanced levels of all modalities if you have the time in the day. And the food. And the sleep, as Guitar said. I know my strongest gains / maxes were months of eat/eat/eat/eat/train/sleep.

Now keep in mind, strength stricks around long term better than other modalities of fitness, while cardio tends to be a high maintenance parameter where "use it or lose it" applies heavily. So that's where the Rippetoe "Get fucking strong" comes from, and it isn't wrong but he also is a powerlifter not a biker.

So if you want a good goal, as a bicyclist - get as ridicu-strong as you think you can with PP and maybe 5/3/1 type program. Then cut back to a 2 day/week routine (5/3/1 as a 2 day program without the 3's week, and don't add weights weekly) and build your cardio while maintaining as much of that strength as you can. If you are racing then you really need to plan it with appropriate peaking / tapering macrocycles, but if it's just a casual biking thing you should be able to do it without needing a structure.

Shit I type too much, I need to focus my typing better. Sorry everyone!

[fallstoclimb]

No I like this!  Super helpful.  I am lifting alone in my garage and have no other resources outside of books and the internet, I am sucking up information like a sponge wherever I can find it.

I like the idea of doing 531 on a 2-day program.  I'll have to look up the specifics of that later, but yes, for now I will continue focusing on the current program.  I just needed to have some sort of long term plan here.  I'm not racing but will be doing long rides (50-70 mile) working up to a tough (lots of climbing) century in the fall, recovery will be a moderate issue but the bigger problem is I just won't have the TIME to focus on both lifting and cycling (and horse riding, and training the dog, and cooking, and working, and having a life, and and and).   

[AlanStache]

The fun part just comes in with trying to fit squats into a one week cycle with hard runs/rides.  What worked for me was squats tuesday/thursday with friday totally off and satruday/sunday for hard long runs and maybe a bit of squatting one day then monday/wednesday more upper-body focused lifting and/or easier runs. Not sure there is a perfect pain on a 7 day cycle.  Friday off sort of evolved with having a life and wanting to be fresher for sport specific work that weekend.

Read most of Piratical Programming and Riptoe does not discuss multi sport or lifting and doing something else that uses muscle similarly.  probably to may variables in there to write a short lifting book.

[jba302]

I like the idea of doing 531 on a 2-day program.  I'll have to look up the specifics of that later, but yes, for now I will continue focusing on the current program.  I just needed to have some sort of long term plan here.  I'm not racing but will be doing long rides (50-70 mile) working up to a tough (lots of climbing) century in the fall, recovery will be a moderate issue but the bigger problem is I just won't have the TIME to focus on both lifting and cycling (and horse riding, and training the dog, and cooking, and working, and having a life, and and and).   

I am not much of a cardio hound. I did rock climbing while doing a high volume powerlifting program and found that the accommodation was not as hard as I would have thought, BUT, there was not much overlap. So my comments here are limited to what limited experiences I have had in this combination.

I did have a couple thoughts which would be either good or useless. If your lifts are not going up quickly (in the area of 5-10 pounds per month or stagnant) you could do an increasing volume Sheiko series (29 has a lot of squat volume), then titrate in some sprint work in following squat primary days (Monday lift, Tuesday light sprints, wednesday deadlift, thursday off / active rehab, friday squat, saturday cardio, sunday off / active rehab). Then for "in season" drop to a 5/1 2/day program and ramp up sprint work with cardio (Monday squat+front squat+OHP, Tuesday light recovery, Wednesday volume cardio, Thursday deadlift/bench, Friday light cardio, saturday hard sprints, sunday off).

I think in general I would keep the cardio to a low din until you need the lungs for the 70 mile race, which would take a couple months of concerted effort. My thought process here is that if you can tolerate a lot of sprints, a medium pace race doesn't seem that difficult to do and you want to maintain a good amount of strength to muscle through hills on your final race (increasing sprint volume towards this). Depends on if you are trying to do a good time or win the race I spose.