Author Topic: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?  (Read 411020 times)

Morning Glory

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #250 on: August 19, 2021, 05:33:03 PM »
This thread is making me wonder what happened to @swampwiz. I miss "things swampwiz found on the internet".

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #251 on: August 20, 2021, 05:14:15 AM »
I used to love listening to Dave Ramsey, I think his advice can help most people, and he is pretty entertaining.  He lost me during Covid with his actions and I stopped listening.  Just stick to personal finance, I don't want to hear your opinion on politics, Covid etc.

This but he lost me well before Covid.  I get it he’s an evangelical Christian and I’m not, but either I didn’t notice how much it colors his advice to individuals or his message was more relevant to me earlier in my life.  It really bothers me, how he seems to address men and women differently.  I recall a call from a struggling roll flipped household where the wife was the primary earner.  He told the husband to stop being a baby and get a job; where he is perfectly fine with a woman being a stay at home mother or lower earner.

I also hate his take on mortgage risk at low interest rates.  Yes, having a mortgage is riskier even in order to have more money in investment, but higher risk often can lead to higher rewards.  It’s those calculated risks we take that lead to great things even though we know it can end up with us crashing and burning though unlikely.

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 05:16:27 AM by Fomerly known as something »

HPstache

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #252 on: August 20, 2021, 08:08:30 AM »
I used to love listening to Dave Ramsey, I think his advice can help most people, and he is pretty entertaining.  He lost me during Covid with his actions and I stopped listening.  Just stick to personal finance, I don't want to hear your opinion on politics, Covid etc.

Never forget:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2020/03/03/coronavirus-stock-market/

https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/1280519241771311104?lang=en
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 08:10:02 AM by v8rx7guy »

talltexan

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #253 on: August 20, 2021, 08:31:38 AM »
Dave has seemed positively unhinged about the timeshare industry targeting him these days. He just doesn't sound reasonable in the episodes he's devoting to focusing on this issue, and it should be an easy lift for him. And--as harmful as buying a time share seems to be--he just hasn't been able to produce a high volume of callers who are actually sharing stories about being abused by that industry.

PDXTabs

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #254 on: August 20, 2021, 03:29:35 PM »
I used to love listening to Dave Ramsey, I think his advice can help most people, and he is pretty entertaining.  He lost me during Covid with his actions and I stopped listening.  Just stick to personal finance, I don't want to hear your opinion on politics, Covid etc.

Never forget:
https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/1280519241771311104?lang=en

I think that's an accurate statement for the population at large. Perhaps not for certain high risk groups or for very short timeframes. "Unhealthy diet contributes to approximately 678,000 deaths each year in the U.S." - https://www.cspinet.org/eating-healthy/why-good-nutrition-important

ericrugiero

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #255 on: August 26, 2021, 01:08:29 PM »
Dave has seemed positively unhinged about the timeshare industry targeting him these days. He just doesn't sound reasonable in the episodes he's devoting to focusing on this issue, and it should be an easy lift for him. And--as harmful as buying a time share seems to be--he just hasn't been able to produce a high volume of callers who are actually sharing stories about being abused by that industry.

It's interesting how different people can hear the same thing and have different reactions.  I like the fact that he has been going after the timeshare industry.  My MIL/FIL got absolutely screwed twice by a timeshare salesman telling them lies and selling them a timeshare they couldn't use like he said.  (they are great people but are the type an unscrupulous salesperson would be excited to see walk in)  I've been to a couple presentations and heard the high pressure and dishonest sales tactics myself.  What else can you buy for $30,000 and not be able to give away for free in a week? 

If he needs more people to call in, I would be happy to share my timeshare stories.  I just haven't gotten the impression he is short on callers. 

talltexan

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #256 on: August 26, 2021, 01:16:35 PM »
Thanks for the reply, indeed my criticisms of DR have more to do with his tone than his side (I am anti-timeshare myself):

  • He continues his (fairly baked in) sexist trajectory in responding to the "Inside Edition" reporter who has criticized him on the issue
  • He is howling and screaming at an almost Kramer-esque frequency in these segments, in some cases bragging about the value of his newly constructed headquarters (seems irrelevant)
  • The callers seem to often be people who sat through sales presentations, but did not buy
  • He is pretty transparently trying to help the Timeshare Exit Team business survive their legal quagmire by giving them free advertising

Chris22

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #257 on: August 26, 2021, 05:59:16 PM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

DadJokes

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #258 on: August 27, 2021, 05:34:16 AM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He does teach "biblical" finance. And the Bible never speaks well of debt. So I'll give him credit there, even if I disagree with it from a mathematical point of view.

Chris22

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #259 on: August 27, 2021, 08:26:18 AM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He does teach "biblical" finance. And the Bible never speaks well of debt. So I'll give him credit there, even if I disagree with it from a mathematical point of view.

I understand the source of his POV, I just think it’s fucking stupid.

iris lily

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #260 on: August 27, 2021, 08:36:53 AM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

ericrugiero

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #261 on: August 27, 2021, 10:08:56 AM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner. 

iris lily

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #262 on: August 27, 2021, 10:38:20 AM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner.

Good.I didn’t see how these obligations could carry on beyond death unless the heir actively did something to take on that responsibility.

So any complainy pants post I see about this means the heir actively participated at one point in ownership.

I sure hope Dave makes it clear in his programs that heirs need not and SHOULD NOT accept timeshare properties from the deceased person’s estate.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 11:20:02 AM by iris lily »

ericrugiero

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #263 on: August 27, 2021, 11:39:28 AM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner.

Good.I didn’t see how these obligations could carry on beyond death unless the heir actively did something to take on that responsibility.

So any complainy pants post I see about this means the heir actively participated at one point in ownership.

I sure hope Dave makes it clear in his programs that heirs need not and SHOULD NOT accept timeshare properties from the deceased person’s estate.

Right, but timeshare companies will take little things like just paying the fees from the heir's account (not the estate) as "proof of acceptance".  I'm not sure that would hold up in court but some heirs who are just trying to do the right thing have been suckered into taking over the payments. 

Hash Brown

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #264 on: August 27, 2021, 11:52:36 AM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He doesn't oppose mortgage debt for a primary residence.   

He does oppose loans for vacation homes and investment properties. 






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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #265 on: August 27, 2021, 03:13:14 PM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner.

Good.I didn’t see how these obligations could carry on beyond death unless the heir actively did something to take on that responsibility.

So any complainy pants post I see about this means the heir actively participated at one point in ownership.

I sure hope Dave makes it clear in his programs that heirs need not and SHOULD NOT accept timeshare properties from the deceased person’s estate.
Soon after we married, DH’s parents casually mentioned that they had added all three of their kids to their timeshare deed so that they would all inherit equally when they passed. If they had not mentioned it in conversation, we would have had no idea until they died. We very quickly got DH removed from that deed. IL’s were not happy about it (they think it’s a great investment, and there’s no really great way to say, “yes that’s good for you but horrible for us…”), but there’s no way we’re going to be tied to DHs siblings like that. Not to mention the timeshare thing. I have no clue how they did it without his signature, but they did.

Morning Glory

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #266 on: August 27, 2021, 04:36:35 PM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He does teach "biblical" finance. And the Bible never speaks well of debt. So I'll give him credit there, even if I disagree with it from a mathematical point of view.

Your post got me down a rabbit hole searching for data on household debt based on religious affiliation. I couldn't find anything recent, other than Islam having a ban on charging or paying interest (there are workarounds such as paying an upfront fee instead of interest on a mortgage). There was one on income by religion, and several on debt by other demographic factors such as age and race.  It would be interesting to see data on debt by religious affiliation that's controlled for other factors like race, income, and education level. Do Christians actually have less debt than non-religious people, for example?

HPstache

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #267 on: August 27, 2021, 08:48:48 PM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He does teach "biblical" finance. And the Bible never speaks well of debt. So I'll give him credit there, even if I disagree with it from a mathematical point of view.

Your post got me down a rabbit hole searching for data on household debt based on religious affiliation. I couldn't find anything recent, other than Islam having a ban on charging or paying interest (there are workarounds such as paying an upfront fee instead of interest on a mortgage). There was one on income by religion, and several on debt by other demographic factors such as age and race.  It would be interesting to see data on debt by religious affiliation that's controlled for other factors like race, income, and education level. Do Christians actually have less debt than non-religious people, for example?

Probably no difference.   Christianity and the Bible do not forbid debt, it is never defined as a sin, but there are a few references in the Bible that debt is a foolish idea which is what Dave Ramsey clues into.


iris lily

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #268 on: August 28, 2021, 08:46:02 AM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner.

Good.I didn’t see how these obligations could carry on beyond death unless the heir actively did something to take on that responsibility.

So any complainy pants post I see about this means the heir actively participated at one point in ownership.

I sure hope Dave makes it clear in his programs that heirs need not and SHOULD NOT accept timeshare properties from the deceased person’s estate.
Soon after we married, DH’s parents casually mentioned that they had added all three of their kids to their timeshare deed so that they would all inherit equally when they passed. If they had not mentioned it in conversation, we would have had no idea until they died. We very quickly got DH removed from that deed. IL’s were not happy about it (they think it’s a great investment, and there’s no really great way to say, “yes that’s good for you but horrible for us…”), but there’s no way we’re going to be tied to DHs siblings like that. Not to mention the timeshare thing. I have no clue how they did it without his signature, but they did.

oy! Glad you got out of that timeshare thing. Yeah, not cool that they put your name on the deed.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #269 on: August 28, 2021, 09:36:06 AM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

DadJokes

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #270 on: August 28, 2021, 09:43:56 AM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #271 on: August 28, 2021, 04:29:09 PM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

Part of the problem is that the other personalities tend to refer to Ramsey solutions/the baby steps too much, I was listening to George Kamel the other day on the earn and invest podcast, it was boring because he referred to Ramsey solutions and the baby steps too often.  George I know where you work, stop telling me every 2 minutes.

talltexan

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #272 on: August 30, 2021, 06:11:49 AM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

I've wondered if this isn't as much about growth as it is about succession. Each of these new personalities has spun off additional content.

Among the personalities, I actually find some value, and the segments with John Doloney in particular have a lot of extra insight.

ender

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #273 on: August 30, 2021, 06:31:10 AM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

I don't see this succeeding if I'm honest.

I enjoy listening to Dave Ramsey, because it's great entertainment. But the "it" part is almost exclusively the "Dave" part.

Almost none of the Ramsey personalities are remotely as interesting to listen to, as hard as they try to be.

nick663

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #274 on: August 30, 2021, 09:32:22 AM »
Curious from the Ramsey listeners:  In all of the timeshare talk does Disney Vacation Club ever come up?  It's a timeshare but it is probably the only one on earth that has appreciated over time.  Also has an end date instead of continuing forever.

Not an owner so I don't have a dog in the fight.  Just think it would be funny if that came up and he lumped it in with everything else.
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He doesn't oppose mortgage debt for a primary residence.   

He does oppose loans for vacation homes and investment properties.
Likely because everyone would laugh him off if he said to buy a house cash.  One of his baby steps is still to pay off the house early so I would argue he still isn't too in favor of it.

talltexan

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #275 on: August 30, 2021, 11:28:11 AM »
My wife and I benefit from continued participation of her parents in the DVC, so I have listened carefully for this. I have never heard DR specifically name them among the problems.

It baffles me why the economics of DVC are so different than the others. Perhaps it's because Disney has private control of their theme parks, rather than the main attraction being "a beach" like it is in Myrtle Beach, for example.

Chris Pascale

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #276 on: August 30, 2021, 12:52:29 PM »
I can’t take seriously anyone who insists all debt regardless of rate, term, and use is a moral failing. It’s simplistic and fucking stupid.

He does teach "biblical" finance. And the Bible never speaks well of debt. So I'll give him credit there, even if I disagree with it from a mathematical point of view.

I understand the source of his POV, I just think it’s fucking stupid.

It's the part where you're thinking that's tripping you up.

Chris Pascale

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #277 on: August 30, 2021, 01:16:30 PM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

I don't see this succeeding if I'm honest.

I enjoy listening to Dave Ramsey, because it's great entertainment. But the "it" part is almost exclusively the "Dave" part.

Almost none of the Ramsey personalities are remotely as interesting to listen to, as hard as they try to be.

Any clip with Christy Wright or the pastor guy is boring.

But forget about the "get-out-of-debt-show" being what it is on the surface, and let's dig down to the heart of it. Dave traded in the integrity of his brand when he (as a guy who won't ride an elevator alone with a lady so as to protect both of their virtue) backed up Chris Hogan when it was known that he slept with a relative, a co-worker, and a fan. The co-worker was let go, and Mrs. Hogan, who wanted leadership within the corp to help, was accused of trying to hurt the company.

Sorry, is it a company? Or are they doing the work of a great God? If the latter, then a jezebel like Chris Hogan can't come in like a whore of Babylon and slut it up all over the place. He needs to meet the corp standard or go back to being a banker where he can raw-dog to his heart's content.

One thing I like about Dave is that he did make a positive change or two as a result of listening to people on his team. For example, he used to say (regarding a son or daughter at college) that you can't support Little Johnny if he's a weed head or Little Suzy if she's sleeping around. It was a common example and one time on air you could almost hear Rachel Cruz miming to him not to criticize Suzy for her sexuality, and I don't think he has since. Another time he had on-air a blogger who criticized him, and Ramsey got nailed on his investment return percentage, and while he acted like a baby about it in the moment, he actually did adjust his percentages after.

But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Chris Pascale

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #278 on: August 30, 2021, 01:19:55 PM »
Here’s an aside question: is it true that timeshare ownership automatically transfers to an estate if the owner dies?  I don’t know where I got that impression, but I have it.

I think timeshares are incredibly stupid but one should be able to get out of one’s timeshare obligation when one dies, for fks sake.

It's true that timeshare companies will tell mourning heirs that they are now responsible for the maintenance fees.  They may even be able to collect on fees that are past due.  In general, it's not true that an heir is required to take ownership (or pay future fees) unless they do something crazy like put their name on the deed with the original owner.

Good.I didn’t see how these obligations could carry on beyond death unless the heir actively did something to take on that responsibility.

So any complainy pants post I see about this means the heir actively participated at one point in ownership.

I sure hope Dave makes it clear in his programs that heirs need not and SHOULD NOT accept timeshare properties from the deceased person’s estate.
Soon after we married, DH’s parents casually mentioned that they had added all three of their kids to their timeshare deed so that they would all inherit equally when they passed. If they had not mentioned it in conversation, we would have had no idea until they died. We very quickly got DH removed from that deed. IL’s were not happy about it (they think it’s a great investment, and there’s no really great way to say, “yes that’s good for you but horrible for us…”), but there’s no way we’re going to be tied to DHs siblings like that. Not to mention the timeshare thing. I have no clue how they did it without his signature, but they did.

oy! Glad you got out of that timeshare thing. Yeah, not cool that they put your name on the deed.

Share "How I Got Out of my Timeshare" with anyone it may help.

https://oldpodcast.com/timeshare/
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 01:45:13 PM by Chris Pascale »

Nick_Miller

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #279 on: August 30, 2021, 01:28:24 PM »
Hmmm...slimy timeshare salespeople versus a Bible-thumping egomaniac?

Hmmm...

I might need a moment.

nick663

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #280 on: August 30, 2021, 02:30:56 PM »
My wife and I benefit from continued participation of her parents in the DVC, so I have listened carefully for this. I have never heard DR specifically name them among the problems.

It baffles me why the economics of DVC are so different than the others. Perhaps it's because Disney has private control of their theme parks, rather than the main attraction being "a beach" like it is in Myrtle Beach, for example.
I believe it's propped up by the fact their resorts are so ungodly expensive and so many want to stay close to the theme parks.

solon

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #281 on: August 30, 2021, 02:34:13 PM »
My wife and I benefit from continued participation of her parents in the DVC, so I have listened carefully for this. I have never heard DR specifically name them among the problems.

It baffles me why the economics of DVC are so different than the others. Perhaps it's because Disney has private control of their theme parks, rather than the main attraction being "a beach" like it is in Myrtle Beach, for example.
I believe it's propped up by the fact their resorts are so ungodly expensive and so many want to stay close to the theme parks.

Yeah, I think they're also limiting the supply so they don't flood the market.

talltexan

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #282 on: August 31, 2021, 07:08:53 AM »
My FiL approached me last month asking me what I thought of the new Riviera resort and if I thought I wanted to buy some of my own points.

That's a nope.

yachi

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #283 on: August 31, 2021, 08:19:15 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.

Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

HPstache

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #284 on: August 31, 2021, 08:31:12 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.

Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

Huh.  Whoever that coordinator was did not do that properly.  It's a reporting of non-mortgage debt, # of credit cards, and "cash on hand"... you are not calculating net worth in this exercise so there is no home value or investment portfolios included.  Source: I've coordinated financial peace university 6 times.

Chris22

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #285 on: August 31, 2021, 09:14:11 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.

Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

Huh.  Whoever that coordinator was did not do that properly.  It's a reporting of non-mortgage debt, # of credit cards, and "cash on hand"... you are not calculating net worth in this exercise so there is no home value or investment portfolios included.  Source: I've coordinated financial peace university 6 times.

Well that’s a dumbass metric. Why do I want a bunch of “cash on hand” instead of in an investment portfolio?  My “cash in hand” is probably low 5 figures (10-15k?) because it doesn’t make me any money sitting in a savings account. It’s all in mutual funds and 401ks and 529s. But my non-mortgage debt is fairly minimal too; but do things like a car lease count as debt?

And number of credit cards?  Who cares?  Balance in those cards is far more important; I bet between us my wife and I have 10-15, maybe even 20 credit cards; most have zero balance and are rarely used, so why does it matter?  Like I have a credit card for our local electronics store, we bought all of our appliances there for my last house and paid them off at 0%.  I haven’t closed the account because why would I?  Only helps my credit having it open and I’ve managed to not run out and buy 10 80” TVs even though the credit is sitting there waiting for me.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 09:17:36 AM by Chris22 »

solon

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #286 on: August 31, 2021, 09:19:13 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.
Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

Huh.  Whoever that coordinator was did not do that properly.  It's a reporting of non-mortgage debt, # of credit cards, and "cash on hand"... you are not calculating net worth in this exercise so there is no home value or investment portfolios included.  Source: I've coordinated financial peace university 6 times.

Another FPU coordinator here. Can confirm, it's definitely non-mortgage debt.

I'll also add that the point is not to see how much more debt we have than cash on hand. The point is to compare non-mortgage debt at the beginning of the course to non-mortgage debt at the end of the course. And the same thing with cash on hand. See how much debt we paid off and savings we grew in just 9 weeks?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 09:20:51 AM by solon »

HPstache

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #287 on: August 31, 2021, 09:23:06 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.

Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

Huh.  Whoever that coordinator was did not do that properly.  It's a reporting of non-mortgage debt, # of credit cards, and "cash on hand"... you are not calculating net worth in this exercise so there is no home value or investment portfolios included.  Source: I've coordinated financial peace university 6 times.

Well that’s a dumbass metric. Why do I want a bunch of “cash on hand” instead of in an investment portfolio?  My “cash in hand” is probably low 5 figures (10-15k?) because it doesn’t make me any money sitting in a savings account. It’s all in mutual funds and 401ks and 529s. But my non-mortgage debt is fairly minimal too; but do things like a car lease count as debt?

One of the overarching goals of Financial Peace University is to become debt free, plain and simple.  This is a simple metric is calculating how far from being debt free the class is, not class net worth.  You report the same metrics at the end of class and it typically shows class progress towards becoming debt free.  I've attached the form that the people taking the class fill out.  If someone were able to calculate the debt that they owe due the the car lease, they could add it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 09:34:58 AM by v8rx7guy »

yachi

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #288 on: August 31, 2021, 10:08:31 AM »
But in the end, you need to graduate from the elementary school called Ramsey University so you can live your life. If you do it without ever getting a credit car again, that's fine, but at some point you should be able to stop saying "Dave says" and move on to "I choose."

Exactly this.  I had my crap together and was ready to move on from Dave Ramsey well before I experienced his material.
Friends of ours went to a Dave Ramsey class, and in one of the group sessions all the participants are to report debt and savings.  Whoever is leading the session adds them all up, and shows the totals to the group.  The amount of debt held by all the participants is supposed to tower greatly over the amount of savings: while mortgages are included as a debt, I think they are not offset by home values.  Also, most people have more debt than savings.

The message is: imagine if we switched these numbers (if the debt of the group became the money the group had) how much more awesome we could be!  Well, our friends shared what those totals looked like for their group, and let's just say that if we had participated, they wouldn't have been able to make their point, even though we still carry student loan debt.

Huh.  Whoever that coordinator was did not do that properly.  It's a reporting of non-mortgage debt, # of credit cards, and "cash on hand"... you are not calculating net worth in this exercise so there is no home value or investment portfolios included.  Source: I've coordinated financial peace university 6 times.

Another FPU coordinator here. Can confirm, it's definitely non-mortgage debt.

I'll also add that the point is not to see how much more debt we have than cash on hand. The point is to compare non-mortgage debt at the beginning of the course to non-mortgage debt at the end of the course. And the same thing with cash on hand. See how much debt we paid off and savings we grew in just 9 weeks?

I'm probably remembering it wrong then.  I know I thought at the time that my invested money would balance out all the reported debt, but I guess that's excluded.  That's good since it's not information I'd want to share in person.

wageslave23

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #289 on: August 31, 2021, 10:16:19 AM »
I love how half the people on this thread are like, "Well I have a lot credit cards and I have a lot of money, blah, blah, blah...".  Cool story bro, so do I but I also have the common sense to know that Dave Ramsey doesn't apply to me.

RetiredAt63

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #290 on: August 31, 2021, 01:06:47 PM »
.
And number of credit cards?  Who cares?  Balance in those cards is far more important; I bet between us my wife and I have 10-15, maybe even 20 credit cards; most have zero balance and are rarely used, so why does it matter?  Like I have a credit card for our local electronics store, we bought all of our appliances there for my last house and paid them off at 0%.  I haven’t closed the account because why would I?  Only helps my credit having it open and I’ve managed to not run out and buy 10 80” TVs even though the credit is sitting there waiting for me.

I'm guessing someone who needs Financial Peace University would see all those credit cards and use them all.  I have known people who looked at a bank account and saw money in it and thought they could spend it, even though in reality that money was ear-marked for rent/mortgage and bills.  Some people's minds do not work like the minds of people on the forums.

Chris22

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #291 on: August 31, 2021, 02:08:18 PM »
I love how half the people on this thread are like, "Well I have a lot credit cards and I have a lot of money, blah, blah, blah...".  Cool story bro, so do I but I also have the common sense to know that Dave Ramsey doesn't apply to me.

My problem is that Ramsey’s bullshit isn’t marketed as “money management for financial alcoholics”, it’s marketed as “this is the one true way”.

Psychstache

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #292 on: August 31, 2021, 02:12:24 PM »
I love how half the people on this thread are like, "Well I have a lot credit cards and I have a lot of money, blah, blah, blah...".  Cool story bro, so do I but I also have the common sense to know that Dave Ramsey doesn't apply to me.

My problem is that Ramsey’s bullshit isn’t marketed as “money management for financial alcoholics”, it’s marketed as “this is the one true way”.

That's the packaging that appeals to the devoutly Christian audience that he largely traffics in.

Chris22

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #293 on: August 31, 2021, 02:26:58 PM »
I love how half the people on this thread are like, "Well I have a lot credit cards and I have a lot of money, blah, blah, blah...".  Cool story bro, so do I but I also have the common sense to know that Dave Ramsey doesn't apply to me.

My problem is that Ramsey’s bullshit isn’t marketed as “money management for financial alcoholics”, it’s marketed as “this is the one true way”.

That's the packaging that appeals to the devoutly Christian audience that he largely traffics in.

Yup. And it’s odious to take advantage of the mentally handicapped.


[MOD NOTE:  No, let's not insult people.]
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 08:20:24 AM by FrugalToque »

Shwaa

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #294 on: August 31, 2021, 06:20:56 PM »
That new guy, George Kamal, at least seems pretty intelligent.  Listening to an episode with him and Ken Colemen and it's glaring the difference between the 2.  Ken just regurgitates the same lines over and over again, but dumb people listen to him and buys his books.   IMO Ken and Kristi are the worst and just try to push their own material for sales.  Deloney is tolerable from a purely psychologist/non $$ advice point of view.  I dont even count Rachel Cruz (DR's daughter) in the mix, she is barely on.

Of course, all my opinion :)

Sidenote....what happened to Anthony O'Neal??  He disappeared it seems.  I would put him in the same group as Ken and Kristi, but not quite as blatant as them

ender

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #295 on: August 31, 2021, 06:35:25 PM »
Sidenote....what happened to Anthony O'Neal??  He disappeared it seems.  I would put him in the same group as Ken and Kristi, but not quite as blatant as them

I got curious on this and saw this tweet from him:

https://twitter.com/AnthonyONeal/status/1431222002107527168

Quote
The goal isn’t to turn up in your 20’s/30’s and retire at 65.

The goal is to use your 20’s/30’s to build wealth and retire whenever you want.

Maybe he FIRE'd from his job :-)

It's a little confusing though. He's got a page https://www.ramseysolutions.com/anthony-oneal but not on https://www.ramseysolutions.com/personalities so I'm not sure what's up with that.

bryan995

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #296 on: September 01, 2021, 08:14:54 AM »
Saw this elsewhere. Sums it up pretty well.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRS7sCtQ/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRSvVkAR/

Ps this guy is hilarious
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 08:18:24 AM by bryan995 »

slappy

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #297 on: September 01, 2021, 09:49:28 AM »
.
And number of credit cards?  Who cares?  Balance in those cards is far more important; I bet between us my wife and I have 10-15, maybe even 20 credit cards; most have zero balance and are rarely used, so why does it matter?  Like I have a credit card for our local electronics store, we bought all of our appliances there for my last house and paid them off at 0%.  I haven’t closed the account because why would I?  Only helps my credit having it open and I’ve managed to not run out and buy 10 80” TVs even though the credit is sitting there waiting for me.

I'm guessing someone who needs Financial Peace University would see all those credit cards and use them all.  I have known people who looked at a bank account and saw money in it and thought they could spend it, even though in reality that money was ear-marked for rent/mortgage and bills.  Some people's minds do not work like the minds of people on the forums.

MOST people's minds don't work like the minds of the people on this forum. I'm not sure why people on this forum have such a hard time understanding that.

RetiredAt63

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #298 on: September 01, 2021, 10:50:50 AM »
.
And number of credit cards?  Who cares?  Balance in those cards is far more important; I bet between us my wife and I have 10-15, maybe even 20 credit cards; most have zero balance and are rarely used, so why does it matter?  Like I have a credit card for our local electronics store, we bought all of our appliances there for my last house and paid them off at 0%.  I haven’t closed the account because why would I?  Only helps my credit having it open and I’ve managed to not run out and buy 10 80” TVs even though the credit is sitting there waiting for me.

I'm guessing someone who needs Financial Peace University would see all those credit cards and use them all.  I have known people who looked at a bank account and saw money in it and thought they could spend it, even though in reality that money was ear-marked for rent/mortgage and bills.  Some people's minds do not work like the minds of people on the forums.

MOST people's minds don't work like the minds of the people on this forum. I'm not sure why people on this forum have such a hard time understanding that.

My "some" was me being optimistic. I have seen some young people get much more sensible in their financial thinking as they hit their late 20s.  And more sensible in general, the speeding tickets disappear, the partying/drinking calms down, etc.

Hash Brown

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Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #299 on: September 01, 2021, 12:05:16 PM »
I listened to Dave Ramsey for a few minutes yesterday, first time in probably a year or two. I noticed how he's now calling it just "The Ramsey Show" as opposed to the "The Dave Ramsey Show". I suppose so he can start pulling himself out to have his kids or other folks eventually take over.

It's been a multi-year plan to try to set the company up to continue without him. The company changed its name to Ramsey Solutions a couple years back, and he's been grooming all of his "Ramsey personalities," including letting them do segments on his show to get them some traction. As far as I can tell, it hasn't worked too well. That's the problem when a company is built around one personality. Shifting away isn't easy.

I remember listening to the show when I lived in Nashville upwards of 20 years ago and it was still a local show.  I only recall one black caller during that time period and Dave really talked down to her in that way that southerners really talk down to people (it's a lot different than how northerners handle the same situation).  At some point he realized it was good business to start attracting a black audience and that's when he brought on Chris Hogan, who became his right-hand man for many years.  Chris was, by far, his best co-host. 

I subscribe to Anthony O'Neil's channel on youtube.  Dave has given him a license to branch out but there are definitely still boundaries if you want to work at that place, and there have to be.  How could the place operate without its various personalities living their lives in close accordance with what they teach? 

Anthony O'Neil talks about his getting caught up in cars and expensive externalities when he was young, and how he paid a steep price for it, but now as a Ramsey personality he talks about how he built his own very expensive house and paid cash for a Porsche.  I imagine that he is making over $100k but I don't understand why he still wants those things.  He also talked once about buying a 7,000sq foot house that would have cost over $1 million.  You live in Nashville, which is relatively expensive, but you can definitely get a house for under $500k, and there is no reason to buy a large house as a single man.   

« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 11:26:03 AM by jmecklenborg »