Author Topic: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?  (Read 32333 times)

mtbbrown

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #150 on: April 02, 2018, 10:01:26 AM »
I really agree with highplainsdrifter, Dave has some good stuff but shouldn't be the all-encompassing source for any true Mustachian. If you're trying to introduce people to Mustachianism, then I think that his tips are somewhat valuable and help to build some good financial principles.

madgeylou

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2402
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #151 on: April 02, 2018, 12:10:03 PM »
I'd prefer to introduce people who need financial education to our very own monstermonster, who is building out her own personal finance education business, with more cats and less no horrible faux Christianity bs. There are many other, better places to go for better guidance.

Bro-mero

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #152 on: April 05, 2018, 11:45:12 PM »
My credit card gives double cash back (2%) if you put the proceeds into a retirement account. I often think how it's a legal loophole to get tax free credit card rewards and put them into a roth. The time value of money increases so much here with the tax free earnings. Do to higher than normal spending last year I generated $1,000 in rewards for my roth. After 20 of compounding, the rewards might make me rich

Which credit card is this, if I may ask? I am looking to get a credit card, and adding as much money as possible to my IRA sounds wonderful!

Road2Freedom

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 44
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #153 on: April 06, 2018, 11:19:27 AM »
My credit card gives double cash back (2%) if you put the proceeds into a retirement account. I often think how it's a legal loophole to get tax free credit card rewards and put them into a roth. The time value of money increases so much here with the tax free earnings. Do to higher than normal spending last year I generated $1,000 in rewards for my roth. After 20 of compounding, the rewards might make me rich

Which credit card is this, if I may ask? I am looking to get a credit card, and adding as much money as possible to my IRA sounds wonderful!

It sounds like the Fidelity Rewards Visa Signature card.  I received an offer with unlimited 2% cash back and $100 bonus if you spend $500 in 90 days.  Looks like you can deposit the money into several different types of Fidelity retirement accounts. 

I would consider using it but have a 2.5% unlimited cash back with the USAA Limitless card.  Hard to beat it since the 2.5% is for any type of purchase.

highplainsdrifter

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #154 on: April 10, 2018, 06:50:04 PM »
My credit card gives double cash back (2%) if you put the proceeds into a retirement account. I often think how it's a legal loophole to get tax free credit card rewards and put them into a roth. The time value of money increases so much here with the tax free earnings. Do to higher than normal spending last year I generated $1,000 in rewards for my roth. After 20 of compounding, the rewards might make me rich

Which credit card is this, if I may ask? I am looking to get a credit card, and adding as much money as possible to my IRA sounds wonderful!

RoadtoFreedom is correct and gave a better breakdown of the rewards. I have the Fidelity rewards card which gives 2% into nearly any Fidelity account; IRA, Brokerage, 529, etc...

libertarian4321

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #155 on: April 11, 2018, 05:25:43 AM »
Dave Ramsey's advice is mostly sound.

For the financially lost/clueless, he can get them on the right path.

Especially for those who like his religious stuff.

That said, a lot of his advice will seem amateurish to those who know a bit more.  His jihad about NEVER using credit cards is ridiculous.  Great advice to those wallowing in debt, but to suggest that frugal multimillionaires who never pay a penny in interest should not use credit cards is absurd.  I'm pretty sure 99.9% of those of us who are millionaires use credit cards, despite Dave's protestations to the contrary.

He also points people to high cost "advisers."  His financial advisers and tax prep people.  Most of us know that index funds are a far more efficient path to wealth than paying a big fee to one of his "ELPs."

So it's fine if you are drowning and looking for a life raft.  But once you get a bit further along, you'll realize that a lot of his advice isn't the best when it comes to becoming wealthy.

poniesandFIRE

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • ponies and FIRE
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #156 on: April 11, 2018, 09:02:28 AM »
Agree with the sentiment that he offers a good introduction and kick in the pants to get started. We started with following the baby steps and still find a ton of good insight from The Total Money Makeover, but with FIRE 2025 being the new goal, we are looking past his advice and delving deeper into our personal finances and sometimes straying from his suggestions.

Astreja

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #157 on: April 11, 2018, 09:15:19 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

My cash flow was so tight it squeaked, but I got to the other side on schedule five years later and am mortgage-free.  Also reined in my spending quite a bit and developed an appreciation for minimalism.

tomsang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #158 on: April 12, 2018, 01:12:09 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

Did you calculate how much this coasted you over investing in the stock market?  I would think that this set you back several years from financial independence based on the stock markets return over the past decade.

kayvent

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Canada
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #159 on: April 12, 2018, 05:13:59 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

Did you calculate how much this coasted you over investing in the stock market?  I would think that this set you back several years from financial independence based on the stock markets return over the past decade.

Astreja is a Canadian. Looking up the S&P/TSX Composite index, over the last 10 years it has grown by 3.7%. That's not per year. Looking at the Total Return of that index, it's about 25% (I'm eyeballing a chart that won't give the number). That's ~2.3% average annualized return.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 05:15:32 AM by kayvent »

jlcnuke

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 887
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #160 on: April 12, 2018, 06:32:24 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

Did you calculate how much this coasted you over investing in the stock market?  I would think that this set you back several years from financial independence based on the stock markets return over the past decade.

Astreja is a Canadian. Looking up the S&P/TSX Composite index, over the last 10 years it has grown by 3.7%. That's not per year. Looking at the Total Return of that index, it's about 25% (I'm eyeballing a chart that won't give the number). That's ~2.3% average annualized return.

Being a Canadian does not preclude one from investing in other markets...

kayvent

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Canada
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #161 on: April 12, 2018, 08:30:05 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

Did you calculate how much this coasted you over investing in the stock market?  I would think that this set you back several years from financial independence based on the stock markets return over the past decade.

Astreja is a Canadian. Looking up the S&P/TSX Composite index, over the last 10 years it has grown by 3.7%. That's not per year. Looking at the Total Return of that index, it's about 25% (I'm eyeballing a chart that won't give the number). That's ~2.3% average annualized return.

Being a Canadian does not preclude one from investing in other markets...

Home country bias + favourable tax treatments + currency risk means Canadians tend to have a heavily weighted portfolio of Canadian assets. I think 30-50% is the industry standard advice but more conservative ones (due to currency risk) are higher weighted.

Astreja

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #162 on: April 12, 2018, 09:23:56 AM »
Overall I'm put off a bit by the religiosity in his writing, but I did get one very useful piece of advice from him -- "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else."  I used that as the inspiration to amortize a refinanced mortgage balance of $40K CDN over five years, with weekly payments.

Did you calculate how much this coasted you over investing in the stock market?  I would think that this set you back several years from financial independence based on the stock markets return over the past decade.

I was not investing at the time.  Being mortgage-free was more important to me, and I have no regrets.

saguaro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #163 on: April 12, 2018, 09:29:06 AM »
I agree that Dave is good for those just starting out in getting a grip on their finances, not so good for those who are past the "pants on fire" point and want to build wealth.  I don't care for the whole religious thing as I personally see it as irrelevant, but I can see how it works for some.

I never regularly listened to Dave because by the time I was aware of him we were already well along on the path of mustachianism.  My gateway was Your Money Or Your Life.

Nate79

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #164 on: April 12, 2018, 10:30:47 PM »
I like Dave Ramsey. I always feel the best plan is a simple plan and DR has been very successful because he is very clear, consistent and his plan is extremely simple to follow. Baby steps. 7 steps. Very little thinking required. No wishy washy do this in this circumstance but something else entirely in another blah blah blah. Black and white answers.

I believe that for a majority of people they will win better by asking for advice from DR vs sites like this or others because DR offers a plan that a person is much more likely to follow thru. Its motivating for success.

Just because I don't agree with all the little details of his plan doesn't mean I don't think his plan is good enough for most.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Lan Mandragoran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #165 on: May 17, 2018, 10:59:55 AM »

Just because I don't agree with all the little details of his plan doesn't mean I don't think his plan is good enough for most.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It just means it's poorly optimized. If someone can cut off years of time off their sentence, but doesn't because they can't handle a bit of detail it seems to me that they are making poor decisions. 

Obviously better than saving 0% and getting into credit card debt or w/e, but that just means the person in huge debt has made even worse decisions.

It's not like its close either. It would be one thing if he were saying, its ok to live a reasonable life or something, but its stuff like pay off your debt at all costs that gets me. That stuff can be the differences of tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$ or years of a working life.

Maybe making the bar low is more realistic for most people... but screw that I don't want to barely get by a low bar.  It's not even like you have to do anything crazy, just do some sound math before you make choices.

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1385
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #166 on: May 17, 2018, 11:03:06 AM »

Just because I don't agree with all the little details of his plan doesn't mean I don't think his plan is good enough for most.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It just means it's poorly optimized. If someone can cut off years of time off their sentence, but doesn't because they can't handle a bit of detail it seems to me that they are making poor decisions. 

It's just optimized for something different than early retirement...  Dave's plan is optimized for potential success for the average American.

rob in cal

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #167 on: May 17, 2018, 11:08:32 AM »
Compared to most other finance talk on the radio, he's very good, especially to get people started. My biggest complaint is how he suggests that its really easy to beat typical stock market returns, by finding out which mutual funds have beaten the major indexes over the last several years. 

Lan Mandragoran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #168 on: May 17, 2018, 11:24:53 AM »

Just because I don't agree with all the little details of his plan doesn't mean I don't think his plan is good enough for most.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It just means it's poorly optimized. If someone can cut off years of time off their sentence, but doesn't because they can't handle a bit of detail it seems to me that they are making poor decisions. 

It's just optimized for something different than early retirement...  Dave's plan is optimized for potential success for the average American.

Yeah your right. It's the most effective method for the sheeps. Idk why anyone would want to be a sheep.... even if its a well led sheep or w/e (analogy breaking down lol).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:27:35 AM by Lan Mandragoran »

Zamboni

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2492
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2019, 02:11:35 PM »
I'm necroposting to chime that I personally love Dave Ramsey's approach and what he has done to help people. He is, in my opinion, what religion should be doing for people.

Most people are financial newbs, and they just never get past that. They need someone to scold them when they are talking about taking 10 years to pay off their $25K debt. He breaks down the math of getting out of debt (which most of his listeners are deep in) in a way everyone listening can understand. Also, he is sincerely compassionate when someone reports something terrible on his show.

He is an extremely well spoken, smart guy who has legitimately helped millions of people. He understands how emotional decision making drives most people. He understands the research behind credit card spending and how it gets out of control so easily. He understands how most CC and bank "products" harm people for their whole lives. Yes, he advertises and sells his stuff . . . I don't blame him for that at all.

If anyone came to me for financial advice, Dave Ramsey is the first place I would send them unless they already had no debt. And I'm totally areligious.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 02:51:52 PM by Zamboni »

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • Insert Snappy Title Here (Journal)
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2019, 02:45:06 PM »
“Necroposting” is now my word of the day.

thriftyc

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 410
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere just west of Toronto
  • Used to be thrifty canadian/thriftycanuck
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #171 on: June 11, 2019, 02:54:44 PM »
He's good for financial newbie's - babies of the sport of FI in terms of getting out of debt etc.  (vast majority of people)
His advice to see a financial advisor makes sense for these people too.

I have long since graduated from his kindergarten program, currently studying for my PhD.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 04:59:43 PM by thriftycanuck »

Zamboni

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2492
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2019, 03:18:38 PM »
;-) I'm glad you learned the alphabet in kindergarten so that you could progress to earning your PhD. Congrats!

Probably what spurred me to this thread was thinking about a friend of mine and her two small boys. Her husband died way too young, leaving them in bad financial shape. It's been a couple of years now since that happened, and she's just floundered around and is now getting remarried after only a short time dating. I worry that is being rushed by her financial distress. When she was telling me how it all went down, about the debt and no insurance, I remember thinking "boy, I wish she and her late husband had read up on Dave Ramsey five years ago." For most people, just the basics go a really long way.

You are right, it is seriously the difference between being illiterate and being able to read. What a difference being able to read makes in our lives!

20957

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #173 on: June 11, 2019, 03:22:47 PM »
I listen to him on youtube sometimes. Oh, the schadenfreude! The elp stuff and the 12% mutual fund stuff is annoying. But actually what gets to me is his ridicule of frugality unless absolutely necessary. A woman called in because her husband was complaining about "only" getting $160 or something a month for fun money, and he mocked her even though there were good reasons for their budget despite the lack of debt. (I usually get $40 a month, I haven't died of it yet). His idea of "living like no one else" apparently means dying with the most toys and hidously ugly huge houses as possible, which is kinda pathetic in my opinion.

clarkfan1979

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1889
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Pueblo, CO
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #174 on: June 11, 2019, 04:12:51 PM »
Over the past week, I have watched about 10 hours of you tube videos of people calling in an asking for advice. Each call is about 6 minutes.

Overall, his advice is very good for the masses, who are mostly really bad with money. When you start to gain some common sense, the Dave approach becomes less helpful. I have two main criticisms.

1) Dave claims that it's very easy to pick a mutual fund that consistently produces 12%/year and beats the market. All you have to do is find a fund that has a 10 year track record of beating the market. He ignores the science that says that 93% of mutual funds do not beat the market.

2) He suggests delivering pizzas and driving Uber for extra money, which might pay less than minimum wage, after you account for all the costs associated with driving an automobile.

When I finished grad school in 2011, I had 56K worth of student loan debt. I got my first job in south Florida, right after the housing market collapse. I told my Dave Ramsey friends that even though I had 56K worth of student loan debt, I was going to buy a house. Rent on a 2 bed condo would have been $1100. Instead, I bought a 3 bed/2 bath house for 95K. My total PITI was $665/month and now it's $625/month because the mortgage insurance is gone. It currently rents for $1850/month and it's worth about 250K. Yes, I still have 31K of student loan debt. However, if I rented for $1100/month, I might still be in a similar position.

Bernard

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Ojai Valley, Calif.
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #175 on: June 11, 2019, 04:40:44 PM »
I just discovered that thread and read all 4 pages of postings!

Only one of you mentioned that he states one needs no credit and no credit cards. He pays everything in cash, presumably even his multi-million dollar hillside mansion in Tennessee, and uses his debit card for renting a car, etc. So his FICO is 0 (mine is now 846), which may work for him, but it sure as hell doesn't work for somebody who wants to buy a home or even tries to be considered as a tenant in a competitive rental market. BS alert 1.

None of you have really called him out on his actively managed funds. I have some of those as well (FSPTX, TRBCX, PRGFX), but he says they are superior to index funds as they continuously make him more money. BS alert 2.

And, finally, the "no more than 25% of the take home pay and only a 15-year mortgage."
Let's run some numbers. Let's say a couple in California makes $100,000 together, annually. If they feed their 401Ks and/or IRAs with . . . let's assume $20K total, their take home will be around (just guessing) $60,000. That's $5K per month. 25% of that is $1,250. So here's a math question for you smart people: what loan amount would a 15-year mortgage have that has a monthly payment of no more than $1,250, including property taxes, escrow, etc., and then tell me if they can afford a run-down 1-car garage or a porta-potty on its own land? BS alert 3.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 04:42:37 PM by Bernard »

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5747
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #176 on: June 11, 2019, 05:09:35 PM »
Probably what spurred me to this thread was thinking about a friend of mine and her two small boys. Her husband died way too young, leaving them in bad financial shape. It's been a couple of years now since that happened, and she's just floundered around and is now getting remarried after only a short time dating. I worry that is being rushed by her financial distress. When she was telling me how it all went down, about the debt and no insurance, I remember thinking "boy, I wish she and her late husband had read up on Dave Ramsey five years ago." For most people, just the basics go a really long way.
A lady I know and her husband had started a business.   It was starting to do well.  She was supporting him but couldn't actually do what the business required on her own.

He entered an intersection when the light was green and was blindsided by a criminal fleeing from the police.  Killed him instantly.   

Because money was short they had canceled the life insurance some time before.

In one fell swoop, no business, no job, no income.    Lost almost everything. 

Just make sure the basics are covered.

EngagedToFIRE

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2019, 06:48:09 AM »
And, finally, the "no more than 25% of the take home pay and only a 15-year mortgage."
Let's run some numbers. Let's say a couple in California makes $100,000 together, annually. If they feed their 401Ks and/or IRAs with . . . let's assume $20K total, their take home will be around (just guessing) $60,000. That's $5K per month. 25% of that is $1,250. So here's a math question for you smart people: what loan amount would a 15-year mortgage have that has a monthly payment of no more than $1,250, including property taxes, escrow, etc., and then tell me if they can afford a run-down 1-car garage or a porta-potty on its own land? BS alert 3.

$1,250 would get you $175,000 loan.  With a down payment, $200k+ house.  Which is a VERY nice home in most of the US.  In California, I guess it depends on what part. And if someone can't get the home/income ratio to work for them in California, then they can put their big boy pants on and look elsewhere.  I'm not sure you are on the right site if you think spending more than 1/4 of your income on a mortgage is a good idea.  :)

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4864
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2019, 07:11:34 AM »
Following every piece of advice Dave Ramsey says perfectly will be better for many (most?) people.

I feel like my thoughts on Dave are summed up in: "perfect is the enemy of good."


wtp1020

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2019, 09:22:49 AM »
For the most part, I have a high opinion of DR. Ten years ago, my husband and I had a shitload of credit card debt and other bills. I was brought up by parents who spent every dime they had and never put money away for a rainy day. I thought this was a normal way to live. Sadly, I had no idea what I was doing with finances.

I kept having anxiety thinking about the credit card bills arriving in the mail, I knew something had to change. I read Suzy Orman's books and Dave's book - The Total Money Makeover. Dave's simple way of paying off bills and slashing every frivolous expenditure resonated with me. I needed simple, in my face advice. I began listening to Dave on the radio. I liked his caller's Debt Free Screams and his down home advice on handling money. I was all in. Soon my husband was too.

We paid off all our debt and a few years later paid off our house. DR's way is exactly what we needed. We learned to be smart with money. We turned our finances around and have taught our children how to budget and manage money.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:32:53 AM by wtp1020 »

LiveLean

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Location: Central Florida
    • ToLiveLean
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2019, 01:17:52 PM »
If you boil down DR into his top 10 rants, they pretty much come down to this:

1. Don't take on debt for anything other than a 15-year mortgage. Even then, strive to pay it off in less.
2. Pay cash for cars.
3. Attend college only at public in-state universities.
4. Major in something marketable in college.
5. Invest only in mutual funds and real estate. (Let's substitute index funds rather than Dave's 12 percent annual unicorn funds.)
6. Save at least 15 percent annually for retirement.
7. Buy term life insurance if you have dependents.
8. Don't buy horrible products like whole life insurance and timeshares.
9. If you're in debt, don't compound the problem by purchasing optional motors: boats, motorcycles, additional cars.
10. Don't hold onto money- and time-sucking real estate. (Amazing how many calls he takes from people who won't part with a previous home even though it's cash-flow negative and 1,000 miles away.)
 
Criticize him for his shameless shilling of all things DR and the need for his ELPs, to say nothing of his idaughter's grating voice,
but if most people followed these 10 guidelines from age 18, they'd likely live debt free and be financiallly successful.


Bernard

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Ojai Valley, Calif.
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2019, 03:01:05 PM »
Quote
$1,250 would get you $175,000 loan.  With a down payment, $200k+ house.  Which is a VERY nice home in most of the US.  In California, I guess it depends on what part. And if someone can't get the home/income ratio to work for them in California, then they can put their big boy pants on and look elsewhere.  I'm not sure you are on the right site if you think spending more than 1/4 of your income on a mortgage is a good idea.  :)

Where I live, and have to live because my business is here and could not be moved if I wanted to, $200K would not buy you a mobile home. Entry price for a 2+1 from the '50s with 1000 square feet or less is close to $500K. I bought my fixer upper for $555K, put $80K in it so far, and my 30-year mortgage of $3,159.xx is indeed more than 25% of my income. If I were to rent, $1,250 would get me . . . a room in the ghetto.

That exactly was my criticism of Dave Ramsey. He does not take HCOL areas into his rigid consideration, and that's just not in tune with the real world. Somebody who can buy a house for $50K will have it easier to pay it off than somebody who has to buy a house for 10 or 15 times that amount.

the_fixer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 560
  • Location: Colorado
  • mind on my money money on my mind
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2019, 07:18:10 PM »
Quote
$1,250 would get you $175,000 loan.  With a down payment, $200k+ house.  Which is a VERY nice home in most of the US.  In California, I guess it depends on what part. And if someone can't get the home/income ratio to work for them in California, then they can put their big boy pants on and look elsewhere.  I'm not sure you are on the right site if you think spending more than 1/4 of your income on a mortgage is a good idea.  :)

Where I live, and have to live because my business is here and could not be moved if I wanted to, $200K would not buy you a mobile home. Entry price for a 2+1 from the '50s with 1000 square feet or less is close to $500K. I bought my fixer upper for $555K, put $80K in it so far, and my 30-year mortgage of $3,159.xx is indeed more than 25% of my income. If I were to rent, $1,250 would get me . . . a room in the ghetto.

That exactly was my criticism of Dave Ramsey. He does not take HCOL areas into his rigid consideration, and that's just not in tune with the real world. Somebody who can buy a house for $50K will have it easier to pay it off than somebody who has to buy a house for 10 or 15 times that amount.
Well to be honest if you live in a HCOL area your wages should be higher than average as well or you need to look at why and what you can do to get them up, move or accept the fact that your options in life are limited by your choices.

He is a bit aggressive with the 15 year but so is a 60% savings rate and MMM to your normal person

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 07:25:59 PM by the_fixer »

PDXTabs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1251
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2019, 09:29:31 PM »
I think he is sleezey and half of his advice is unwarrented. However, he has two ideas that I'm totally on board with:

  • Pay off your debt (with a snowball, but whatever).
  • If you live like other people don't want to now you will get to live like other people don't get to later.

To reiterate, these are really solid principles that I feel like most of us should be behind. I just prefer it when J. R. Collins handles the delivery, and not on radio.

Zamboni

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2492
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #184 on: June 19, 2019, 03:37:44 PM »
I've listened to a little more of his show this week.

He's right on target with most family and marriage advice as well. He has a very healthy sense of family dynamics and boundary setting. After probably watching 40 snippets that involved couple dynamics or family dynamics, I have agreed with him and thought he cut right to the heart of the matter 100% of the time.

I'm probably opposite with him in terms of political views, and I'm not religious, but neither of those things are really the focus of his show. The focus of his show is money and how people can exercise their power over their own lives to move their financial lives in the right direction.

EngagedToFIRE

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #185 on: June 20, 2019, 05:38:38 AM »
I've listened to a little more of his show this week.

He's right on target with most family and marriage advice as well. He has a very healthy sense of family dynamics and boundary setting. After probably watching 40 snippets that involved couple dynamics or family dynamics, I have agreed with him and thought he cut right to the heart of the matter 100% of the time.

I'm probably opposite with him in terms of political views, and I'm not religious, but neither of those things are really the focus of his show. The focus of his show is money and how people can exercise their power over their own lives to move their financial lives in the right direction.

I'm a fan of anyone that is bringing financial common sense to the masses.  Even if it's not the exact strategies I would use.  He's really not that bad and if his strategy resonates with people, all the better for those people.  As they continue their journey to financial responsibility, maybe mustachianism is down the line, too.  I have a family member who was a big Ramsey fan, did a lot of good for him.  Now he's big on MMM and made so many big changes over the last 5 years.

rob in cal

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #186 on: June 22, 2019, 12:16:03 AM »
  One thing about DR is that he isn't big on RE even if one is very well off. He often talks about encore careers, dangers of not having a job etc.  But, I believe his retirement focused sidekick Chris Hogan who just wrote Everyday Millionaire might be an undercover FIRE advocate, because he's always talking about how great retirement is if you have saved for it properly, with no age requirement or other restriction.

A Fella from Stella

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #187 on: June 24, 2019, 11:53:00 AM »
I got very bored of him, which led me to seek out the FI podcasts. However, he has made some changes to his approach that have made the clips that come up on my YouTube feed much more enjoyable.

When Pete lambasted him on the blog, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he just was ahead of me when he found him, and didn't mind how harsh he was since he is willing to put his own name on the work.

Miss Prim

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Location: Michigan
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #188 on: June 24, 2019, 12:34:18 PM »
I agree that Dave is good for those just starting out in getting a grip on their finances, not so good for those who are past the "pants on fire" point and want to build wealth.  I don't care for the whole religious thing as I personally see it as irrelevant, but I can see how it works for some.

I never regularly listened to Dave because by the time I was aware of him we were already well along on the path of mustachianism.  My gateway was Your Money Or Your Life.

This!^  Your Money or Your Life was the book that set me on my path also!  Great book!  I was never interested in Dave Ramsey's advice because I was already aware of how to optimise my spending and saving.  I never was one for getting into debt in the first place, and already used credit cards responsibly, so his advise not to use them made no sense to me.


I was kind of upset when they had a set of his classes at our church.  I just didn't feel that it was appropriate for a church to push his agenda.  Bible study classes belong in a church, not Dave Ramsey courses!  Others may not feel that way, but it rubbed me the wrong way.


                                                                     Miss Prim

watchitgrow

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #189 on: June 24, 2019, 01:36:55 PM »
I will pile on to the group that thinks Dave Ramsey is a great place for someone starting out. He has an enormous amount of content on youtube that really helped draw me in and get the basics down. I followed almost all of his steps expect ditching the credit card.

He initially rubbed me the wrong way but quickly grew on me with his common sense advice. The debt free screams really helped to get my wife on board, which accelerated our progress in a way I didn't realize was possible. All of that lead me here, so I'm extremely grateful for that.

Now, I mostly listen to other podcasts and shows that are more FIRE related but will occasionally click one of his videos to see if he is talking about anything new, only to realize how far I've come.

If I talk to someone who has debt and stresses over it I send them to Dave Ramsey. If I talk to someone without debt but no vision for how they can ever retire, I send them to MMM.


Zamboni

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2492
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #190 on: June 24, 2019, 08:54:39 PM »
^^His religion angle is the stroke of genius that has made him so wealthy. He gets buy in from the church leadership by advising people to tithe. He draws from the scriptures to reinforce his message of no debt to the faithful. My momma always said “If you really want to make a lot of money, go into the business of religion.”

I can certainly understand how your church pushing a for profit business bothers you, of course. He makes lots of money on those Financial Peace packages. On the other hand, he claims to donate lots of money back to churches and I have no reason not to believe this. Have you ever stopped to consider what other subtle financially-related agendas your church my be pushing?

His class actually does help a lot of people get out of debt, and he has free content and a free budget app that is pretty nice. You don’t really need the class to benefit from his ideas, but many people need the structure and a class also gives structure to couples trying to work together.

By the way, many religions advise against borrowing money. For example, Islam has many guidelines about borrowing, the most important of which being that loans should be paid back only in the principal amount . . . No interest.

Finally, on the religion-as-a-business topic, you definitely should not go to YouTube and look up the Jim Bakker Bulk Bucket Sampler.

Lan Mandragoran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #191 on: June 25, 2019, 01:51:07 PM »
I will pile on to the group that thinks Dave Ramsey is a great place for someone starting out. He has an enormous amount of content on youtube that really helped draw me in and get the basics down. I followed almost all of his steps expect ditching the credit card.

He initially rubbed me the wrong way but quickly grew on me with his common sense advice. The debt free screams really helped to get my wife on board, which accelerated our progress in a way I didn't realize was possible. All of that lead me here, so I'm extremely grateful for that.

Now, I mostly listen to other podcasts and shows that are more FIRE related but will occasionally click one of his videos to see if he is talking about anything new, only to realize how far I've come.

If I talk to someone who has debt and stresses over it I send them to Dave Ramsey. If I talk to someone without debt but no vision for how they can ever retire, I send them to MMM.

Idk, I'm proud of myself for holding a 0% interest 5k debt for 2 years. We'll pay it off the instant it's due, but until then I've had 2 years of 5k investing to use (going towards tax free accounts to boot). Probably made 1500-2k off that decision.

HBFIRE

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #192 on: June 25, 2019, 02:00:38 PM »
I think he's a good entrepreneur and knows how to make money off people who aren't critical thinkers.  This is why his religious angle works so well.

CheapScholar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
  • Location: The Midwest
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #193 on: June 26, 2019, 06:07:20 AM »
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/employer-401k-match-debt-dave-ramseys-advice

Wow.  Just awful.  I guess the person asking Dave for advice didn’t say the rate on his debt.  But, still...just awful...

Lan Mandragoran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #194 on: June 27, 2019, 09:01:23 AM »
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/employer-401k-match-debt-dave-ramseys-advice

Wow.  Just awful.  I guess the person asking Dave for advice didn’t say the rate on his debt.  But, still...just awful...

Well... idk. It may be terrible advice (and it certainly needs more details like an interest rate :S ) for someone with a brain, but as someone whose experienced people that just can't get out of their own way it's not so bad.

I sure wish certain family members of mine had the mindset of just, stay in their little jobs, don't crazy choices, paid off debt as soon as possible and invest when done with that.

It's obviously quite far from optimal, but compare that to what they did... (invest in a 401k, instead of student loans, find a "fixer-upper house", take out 401k and incur huge amounts of taxes etc etc) and it doesn't sound so bad to just treat it like simple math, because at some point when your saving alot of money it's pretty simple, just dont screw it up.


Edit: With that said... I hyper-optimize everything and think it's insane that everyone doesn't.

big_owl

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 649
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #195 on: June 27, 2019, 09:29:54 AM »
We used to watch Suze Orman faithfully and loved the "Can I afford It?" segment of her TV show...we were even on the show once asking "If we could afford it".  Since that went off the air we now listen to Dave.  Though at this stage none of his advice really applies to us I still think it's pretty good and can help your average American out.  We mostly just listen for entertainment at this point.  I hate how he says "Pastor" though.


Proud Foot

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1041
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #196 on: July 03, 2019, 08:13:43 AM »
I enjoy listening to him. His show is on my podcast list I play at work and am always intrigued by the questions the callers have, particularly the ones who call him and then try to justify taking out another loan and getting him to agree that it's a good idea! However I cannot stand it when he is out and one of the Ramsey Personalities fill in. I find Chris Hogan's voice soothing but the Personalities but its almost like a telemarketer, they have their script and prompts but never think or deviate from it. Heard one the other day where a lady called in wanting to sell their current house and downsize in a move which would have reduced their mortgage. But no, they have some other non-mortgage debt and the personality kept telling them to focus on paying down the debt and keep renting. Like WTF THEY ARE NOT RENTING CURRENTLY!!!

FunkyChopstick

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #197 on: July 08, 2019, 05:30:14 PM »
Dave Ramsey is a great foot into the door of figuring this out. I feel like Ramsey is the gateway drug. I think he's entertaining, a bit too smug but it suits him. I cannot argue the basic principles. For the sage Mustachians he's not much but for the masses, 99% of our population, he does a world of good to get them on their way.

The biggest crime is that *basic* financial literacy and life skills are not taught in high school. It should be a part of core curriculum.

AnxietyFly

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #198 on: July 08, 2019, 08:22:56 PM »
He keeps it simple for people to get out of debt. I enjoy listening to him to hear other people successfully reach there goals with his plan. My personal thought is that he's getting ready to retire and hand the empire over to Chris Hogan. Chris is good and more personable but I'll miss Dave's personality.

AnxietyFly

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: What is your opinion of Dave Ramsey?
« Reply #199 on: July 08, 2019, 08:29:35 PM »
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/employer-401k-match-debt-dave-ramseys-advice

Wow.  Just awful.  I guess the person asking Dave for advice didn’t say the rate on his debt.  But, still...just awful...

Definitely more controversial part of his strategy. I would have big problems giving up my 401k match to pay down debt.  However, his plan is pretty clear and people have good results going through the seven stages. I never actually used his plan but I listen all the time.