Coronavirus is the End of Trump

[talltexan]

I cannot find any part of this article that is false. You guys?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwib2MvO2cnoAhWkd98KHQVIBA0QFjABegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fslate.com%2Fnews-and-politics%2F2020%2F03%2Ftrump-coronavirus-social-distancing-extension-flattery-self-interest.html&usg=AOvVaw3RewLKVH_uo4C56O-60OCT

[OtherJen]

I cannot find any part of this article that is false. You guys?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwib2MvO2cnoAhWkd98KHQVIBA0QFjABegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fslate.com%2Fnews-and-politics%2F2020%2F03%2Ftrump-coronavirus-social-distancing-extension-flattery-self-interest.html&usg=AOvVaw3RewLKVH_uo4C56O-60OCT

Seems about right. And plenty of us over here stand with “that woman from Michigan.” Gov. Whitmer won by a decent margin in 2018 and I think everyone but the Trump cultists are happy about that. Our last round of state GOP leadership gave us the Flint Water Crisis.

[Dancin'Dog]

Trump is a sociopath.  He put us in this position as revenge for his impeachment.  We had everything in place to defend against this pandemic, but he dismantled it.  The PPE that the hospitals needed was shipped to China as COVID-19 was heading here.  Other shipments have since been sent to Thailand.  Obama had a source for economical ventilators, but Trump rejected them in order for Kushner to work some backroom private deals for expensive units.


Trump is a sociopath.

[talltexan]

I just saw that 6.6 million new unemployment filings were completed during the past week. I don't know how to put this number in any kind of context. It's so different than the 230,000 we were averaging for much of the past few years.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/us-unemployment-claims-march-coronavirus-economy

Presidents have survived 10+% unemployment rates to win re-election (FDR, Ronald Reagan). It doesn't mean Trump is cooked.

[DarkandStormy]

I just saw that 6.6 million new unemployment filings were completed during the past week. I don't know how to put this number in any kind of context. It's so different than the 230,000 we were averaging for much of the past few years.

[GuitarStv]

There . . . that looks better.

[YttriumNitrate]

Presidents have survived 10+% unemployment rates to win re-election (FDR, Ronald Reagan). It doesn't mean Trump is cooked.

Although unemployment did exceed 10% for about a year during his first term, in November 1984 unemployment was at 7.4% when Reagan was re-elected. https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

7 months to go to the election. A lot can happen between now and then.

[talltexan]

I'm honestly not sure public schools will be open again before that November election.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Are you completely sure there will be an election?

[talltexan]

It's not up to Trump. It's ultimately up to states, right?

[sherr]

It's not up to Trump. It's ultimately up to states, right?

Not really even that. How each state runs its elections is largely up to the states, but the election day is set by current law and would require a change in the law. Also the constitution states that Trump's current term ends Jan 20, 2021, so if an election has not taken place to replace him then the presidency would fall down through the order of ascension until we find someone who is technically still in office. Assuming that Republicans care at all about following the constitution that is...

[wenchsenior]

There will be an election. However, I could see very effective voter suppression in dense blue areas of red states simply by dint of the governors ordering enforced social distancing such that polling places simply could not accommodate the volume of space required when voters have to stay separated in line.  I could see lines stretching for blocks and blocks (discouraging voters by visual impression) and local police being told to look for instances of accidental trespass related to these huge lines and arresting people for it, etc.  Or red city/states could enforce local curfews, cutting down time available to vote in busy polling places.  The GOP certainly will fight any effort for mail in voting.

That kind of thing I think is FAR more likely than trying to cancel the election outright.

[DarkandStormy]

It's not up to Trump. It's ultimately up to states, right?

Not really even that. How each state runs its elections is largely up to the states, but the election day is set by current law and would require a change in the law. Also the constitution states that Trump's current term ends Jan 20, 2021, so if an election has not taken place to replace him then the presidency would fall down through the order of ascension until we find someone who is technically still in office. Assuming that Republicans care at all about following the constitution that is...

If you go through this...no elections held...then Trump's term ends 1/20/21.  It then goes to Pence, whose term also ends 1/20/21.  It would then go to Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, but wait...the House had no elections and thus, no one there to vote for Speaker of the House.  So then, from there, it would go to the President pro tempore of the Senate.  Considering none of the Senate candidates up in '20 had elections, the balance would tilt to the Democrats since more R's are up in '20.  It would go to the longest-tenured Senate Dem which is...Patrick Leahy.

[Sanitary Stache]

Is there anyone with anything bad to say about Leahy, other than his advanced age? 

He would be an excellent President.  He responses intelligently everytime I ask him why the AUMF is still in effect.

[sherr]

It's not up to Trump. It's ultimately up to states, right?

Not really even that. How each state runs its elections is largely up to the states, but the election day is set by current law and would require a change in the law. Also the constitution states that Trump's current term ends Jan 20, 2021, so if an election has not taken place to replace him then the presidency would fall down through the order of ascension until we find someone who is technically still in office. Assuming that Republicans care at all about following the constitution that is...

If you go through this...no elections held...then Trump's term ends 1/20/21.  It then goes to Pence, whose term also ends 1/20/21.  It would then go to Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, but wait...the House had no elections and thus, no one there to vote for Speaker of the House.  So then, from there, it would go to the President pro tempore of the Senate.  Considering none of the Senate candidates up in '20 had elections, the balance would tilt to the Democrats since more R's are up in '20.  It would go to the longest-tenured Senate Dem which is...Patrick Leahy.

Right, but while this is technically true it's also never going to happen.

Besides the weirdness with the presidency you'd also end up with a completely empty House, and a bunch of empty state legislatures, etc. I agree with wenchsenior. The election will happen, but Republicans will fight tooth and nail against adding voter protections in any way, knowing full well that the more they can suppress the vote the better they'll do.

See also this video from the 80s by the founder of the Heritage Foundation...

[frugalnacho]

I will never again vote by anything other than absentee ballot.  It's beyond absurd for me to carve time out of my work schedule and go stand in line to cast my vote when it can all be done via absentee ballot.  Plus I really like getting the ballot ahead of time and knowing exactly what is on it so I have time to evaluate and think about my choices. 

I can only assume with this much lead time that the entire process is going to end up being done by absentee ballot for everyone.  At least it should be, in my opinion. 

[sherr]

I will never again vote by anything other than absentee ballot.  It's beyond absurd for me to carve time out of my work schedule and go stand in line to cast my vote when it can all be done via absentee ballot.  Plus I really like getting the ballot ahead of time and knowing exactly what is on it so I have time to evaluate and think about my choices. 

I can only assume with this much lead time that the entire process is going to end up being done by absentee ballot for everyone.  At least it should be, in my opinion.

Right, it should be, we agree, but it won't be. Because then too many people would be able to vote, and Republicans would lose.

"The things they had in there were crazy," Trump said of the voter protection and expansion proposals in the bill. "They had things—levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again."

[sui generis]

I will never again vote by anything other than absentee ballot.  It's beyond absurd for me to carve time out of my work schedule and go stand in line to cast my vote when it can all be done via absentee ballot.  Plus I really like getting the ballot ahead of time and knowing exactly what is on it so I have time to evaluate and think about my choices. 

I can only assume with this much lead time that the entire process is going to end up being done by absentee ballot for everyone.  At least it should be, in my opinion.

Absolutely, I haven't voted in person in a decade or decade and a half and I don't miss it at all, even though I never lived in a place where polling places were plagued by long lines.

And Michigan's new no-excuse absentee ballot should be a boon for your state at this time.  I read that the Governor and SOS are making sure an absentee ballot application is being sent to every registered voter in the state before the May 5 election and it looks like voters can mark down that they want to do permanent absentee at that time.  Some of these election reforms passed by the MI voters in 2018 were attempted to be undermined by the Republican legislature but I understand they were largely unsuccessful.  And you have a Democratic gov and SOS, so MI has better protections for democracy than many other states.  And luckily all 3 former "blue wall" states have Dem governors, so hopefully the November election will be somewhat protected in November, but the Republican legislatures will still be up to various hijinx in the meantime.

[OtherJen]

I will never again vote by anything other than absentee ballot.  It's beyond absurd for me to carve time out of my work schedule and go stand in line to cast my vote when it can all be done via absentee ballot.  Plus I really like getting the ballot ahead of time and knowing exactly what is on it so I have time to evaluate and think about my choices. 

I can only assume with this much lead time that the entire process is going to end up being done by absentee ballot for everyone.  At least it should be, in my opinion.

Absolutely, I haven't voted in person in a decade or decade and a half and I don't miss it at all, even though I never lived in a place where polling places were plagued by long lines.

And Michigan's new no-excuse absentee ballot should be a boon for your state at this time.  I read that the Governor and SOS are making sure an absentee ballot application is being sent to every registered voter in the state before the May 5 election and it looks like voters can mark down that they want to do permanent absentee at that time.  Some of these election reforms passed by the MI voters in 2018 were attempted to be undermined by the Republican legislature but I understand they were largely unsuccessful.  And you have a Democratic gov and SOS, so MI has better protections for democracy than many other states.  And luckily all 3 former "blue wall" states have Dem governors, so hopefully the November election will be somewhat protected in November, but the Republican legislatures will still be up to various hijinx in the meantime.

This is true about the May election ballots (and about the GOP' unsuccessful attempts to overturn the will of the voters). I suspect that we will see much more interest in absentee voting in August and November, as well. Yet another reason to be grateful that we passed Prop 3 in 2018 by a large margin.

[frugalnacho]

I will never again vote by anything other than absentee ballot.  It's beyond absurd for me to carve time out of my work schedule and go stand in line to cast my vote when it can all be done via absentee ballot.  Plus I really like getting the ballot ahead of time and knowing exactly what is on it so I have time to evaluate and think about my choices. 

I can only assume with this much lead time that the entire process is going to end up being done by absentee ballot for everyone.  At least it should be, in my opinion.

Right, it should be, we agree, but it won't be. Because then too many people would be able to vote, and Republicans would lose.

"The things they had in there were crazy," Trump said of the voter protection and expansion proposals in the bill. "They had things—levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again."

But why don't non-trump states just do it anyway on a statewide level?  In Michigan I already can absentee vote in all elections.  I don't even have to provide any type of reason why I want to vote absentee with the recent law changes.  Before that it was only allowable for certain circumstances but you could easily just lie and they couldn't verify it.  Yea I might be on vacation that day, or I might have to go out of town for work, so gimme my damn absentee ballot.

I remember when Obama got elected the first time the polls were absolute madness.  I ended up spending something like 2 hours waiting in a line that extended out of the school and down the sidewalk when I was available to be physically present at the polls.  I vowed on that day I would never, ever vote in person again and would always get absentee ballots even if I had to lie about my situation to obtain them.  Thankfully with the law change we don't need to lie about it anymore, and hopefully that encourages more people to vote absentee.

[frugalnacho]

I've never voted by absentee ballot, though I suppose that will be the plan for November. It's probably a good idea to email state legislators to ensure that such a plan is in place in case this continues on throughout 2020.

I'm pretty sure it's always been an option to everyone.  You usually just have to give some valid reason like you are military, or you have a planned vacation, or there is a reasonable chance you will be out of town for work, or you are disabled.  Many states don't even require an excuse, just a desire to vote early/absentee.  I encourage everyone to vote absentee, and if they require an excuse just lie about it because fuck them it's none of their god damn business why you want to absentee vote.  And if you feel uncomfortable "lying" about it, just remember there is a non-zero chance that you may have some type of emergency that prevents you from voting on election day.  Just vote absentee in anticipation of that 0.1% chance potentially affecting you. 

[dandarc]

"The things they had in there were crazy," Trump said of the voter protection and expansion proposals in the bill. "They had things—levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again."

When "more people voting" is the death of your party, maybe time to re-think that platform a bit.

[sherr]

But why don't non-trump states just do it anyway on a statewide level?  In Michigan I already can absentee vote in all elections.  I don't even have to provide any type of reason why I want to vote absentee with the recent law changes.  Before that it was only allowable for certain circumstances but you could easily just lie and they couldn't verify it.  Yea I might be on vacation that day, or I might have to go out of town for work, so gimme my damn absentee ballot.

I remember when Obama got elected the first time the polls were absolute madness.  I ended up spending something like 2 hours waiting in a line that extended out of the school and down the sidewalk when I was available to be physically present at the polls.  I vowed on that day I would never, ever vote in person again and would always get absentee ballots even if I had to lie about my situation to obtain them.  Thankfully with the law change we don't need to lie about it anymore, and hopefully that encourages more people to vote absentee.

I mean I don't disagree. But you're going to get very different voter participation numbers between the options of (for example):
1) Individually encouraging every single voter to lie and potentially risk prosecution to request an absentee ballot.
2) Automatically mailing every registered voter a ballot.

And the states where Republicans already have enough power to resist expanded voter protections are also (by sheer coincidence?!!!!) the same ones that have the most voter suppression and could be benefited the most by expanded voter protections. Like my state, NC, or Georgia. It's mind-blowing how far Republicans in these states have already gone to steal power and undermine democracy.

[frugalnacho]

I've never voted by absentee ballot, though I suppose that will be the plan for November. It's probably a good idea to email state legislators to ensure that such a plan is in place in case this continues on throughout 2020.

I'm pretty sure it's always been an option to everyone.  You usually just have to give some valid reason like you are military, or you have a planned vacation, or there is a reasonable chance you will be out of town for work, or you are disabled.  Many states don't even require an excuse, just a desire to vote early/absentee.  I encourage everyone to vote absentee, and if they require an excuse just lie about it because fuck them it's none of their god damn business why you want to absentee vote.  And if you feel uncomfortable "lying" about it, just remember there is a non-zero chance that you may have some type of emergency that prevents you from voting on election day.  Just vote absentee in anticipation of that 0.1% chance potentially affecting you.

I looked through TN's reasons to vote via absentee ballot, and I certainly don't qualify for any of them. While I wouldn't mind saying I can't vote in person because I'm ill, I think that might not work when scaled to a statewide level without making a change. It would be a good idea for state governments to have a plan to waive those restrictions this year, just in case.

Like I said, I have absolutely no problem with people outright lying about it because I think it's an unfair restriction in the first place.  Just tell them you have medical/digestive issues and don't want to risk diarrheaing all over the polls.  Are they going to come inspect everyone's buttholes just to keep people honest?

[DoubleDown]

At this point, I don't think think we can forecast anything to be "the end of Trump." We could only wish it was so. There have been so many occasions for reasonable people to conclude, "That's the final straw!" but it never happens. His supporters (and there are many of them) love him for everything he stands for.

I'm reading a fiction book right now (written before Trump was elected) where one of the evil dudes (a neo-Nazi leader) gives a monologue defending his views by saying, in effect, "People say they want democracy, but what they really want is an authoritarian government. Authoritarian governments make them feel safe, protected." Sadly, it's true. This describes Trump and the appearance of so many other recently-elected authoritarian world leaders who traffic in lies, corruption, conspiracies, divisiveness, xenophobic rhetoric, and being "macho" (Duterte, Bolsinaro, Boris Johnson, Orban, el-Sisi,...)

The people in my family who are Trump supporters -- you could tell them until you're blue in the face about all his corruption and self-serving and disgusting actions, and it wouldn't matter one bit to them. They'd tell you they like that about him and besides, "everyone does it."

[skp]

I just today got an absentee ballot mailed to me for Ohio's primary election.  I always vote in person. I didn't have to request it.  It just showed up.  I highly doubt that if Covid is still a problem in November Ohio won't do the same thing.  And we have a republican governor.  Adding, the postage stamp is already on the return envelope.  I don't even have to have/ go out and buy a stamp.

[sui generis]

I just today got an absentee ballot mailed to me for Ohio's primary election.  I always vote in person. I didn't have to request it.  It just showed up.  I highly doubt that if Covid is still a problem in November Ohio won't do the same thing.  And we have a republican governor.  Adding, the postage stamp is already on the return envelope.  I don't even have to have/ go out and buy a stamp.

I'm a bit surprised, although dewine has seemed to be less trumpian than other R govs and better at handling this mess for sure. MA and MD also. TN, GA and FL are not doing so well though. I don't consider any of these states make it or break it states, thankfully. Though some do consider OH and FL swing states still.

[frugalnacho]

At this point, I don't think think we can forecast anything to be "the end of Trump." We could only wish it was so. There have been so many occasions for reasonable people to conclude, "That's the final straw!" but it never happens. His supporters (and there are many of them) love him for everything he stands for

There are people in my neighborhood sporting giant trump flags. 

[PDXTabs]

‘It's a sh-- sandwich': Republicans rage as Florida becomes a nightmare for Trump

[bacchi]

Trump is losing Michigan as well.

Kristol's group is airing ads in several battleground states: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxG241bExqY&

[Kris]

Here is an anecdote:

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped.

Tonight she posted a desperate post on FB, so upset that people were not staying home.

I replied: “I don’t understand why Trump doesn’t proclaim a nation-wide stay at home order.”

I honestly thought she would lose her shit on me.

Instead, she said, “I don’t know! It needs to happen!”

I was pretty surprised. The tide may be shifting ever so slightly.

[Just Joe]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/us-edits-national-stockpile-website-after-kushner-claims-its-not-for-states

One comment: "It is being reported by NBC News that the federal government has been buying supplies from China, then distributing them to private vendors, who then sell them to states. Since the states are all bidding against each other, the price goes up. Then FEMA swoops in and buys the supplies. So, friends of Trump in the private sector make oodles of cash on the bidding war, then sell it to the feds. Kushner says he got supplies to friends of Trump when they couldn't get them anywhere else. Trump also sends all the supplies that governors of red states request, but blue state governors like Whitmer in MI are given much less.

The outright corruption is beyond stunning, beyond criminal. It's obvious that these people have no souls, with the mighty dollar meaning more than people dying due to lack of proper equipment and tests. I can only hope they will all face jail terms when this is all over."

[Freedom2016]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/us-edits-national-stockpile-website-after-kushner-claims-its-not-for-states

One comment: "It is being reported by NBC News that the federal government has been buying supplies from China, then distributing them to private vendors, who then sell them to states. Since the states are all bidding against each other, the price goes up. Then FEMA swoops in and buys the supplies. So, friends of Trump in the private sector make oodles of cash on the bidding war, then sell it to the feds. Kushner says he got supplies to friends of Trump when they couldn't get them anywhere else. Trump also sends all the supplies that governors of red states request, but blue state governors like Whitmer in MI are given much less.

The outright corruption is beyond stunning, beyond criminal. It's obvious that these people have no souls, with the mighty dollar meaning more than people dying due to lack of proper equipment and tests. I can only hope they will all face jail terms when this is all over."

I can only hope they will all burn in hell when this is all over.

[Davnasty]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/us-edits-national-stockpile-website-after-kushner-claims-its-not-for-states

One comment: "It is being reported by NBC News that the federal government has been buying supplies from China, then distributing them to private vendors, who then sell them to states. Since the states are all bidding against each other, the price goes up. Then FEMA swoops in and buys the supplies. So, friends of Trump in the private sector make oodles of cash on the bidding war, then sell it to the feds. Kushner says he got supplies to friends of Trump when they couldn't get them anywhere else. Trump also sends all the supplies that governors of red states request, but blue state governors like Whitmer in MI are given much less.

The outright corruption is beyond stunning, beyond criminal. It's obvious that these people have no souls, with the mighty dollar meaning more than people dying due to lack of proper equipment and tests. I can only hope they will all face jail terms when this is all over."

I haven't been able to find any NBC reports making this claim. I suspect it would be making headlines if it were true.

[Just Joe]

Dose of salt then...

[Just Joe]

https://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/admiral-defends-federal-government-sending-medical-supplies-to-the-private-sector-81600069633

[PDXTabs]

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped...

I have a very good friend who's dad trusted whatever Fox news told him. But now, Fox news told him that Covid-19 wasn't a big deal, but it really really is. So now he doesn't trust Fox news anymore. Seriously, this guy has been on the Trump bandwagon the whole time because Fox told him to, and now he's off the Fox train. The sad thing is he has no idea who to listen to now. He knows not to trust Fox, but he doesn't know who to trust.

[MasterStache]

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped...

I have a very good friend who's dad trusted whatever Fox news told him. But now, Fox news told him that Covid-19 wasn't a big deal, but it really really is. So now he doesn't trust Fox news anymore. Seriously, this guy has been on the Trump bandwagon the whole time because Fox told him to, and now he's off the Fox train. The sad thing is he has no idea who to listen to now. He knows not to trust Fox, but he doesn't know who to trust.

I would suggest detaching themselves from major news networks and finding reliable sources of information coupled with fact checking, etc.

[OtherJen]

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped...

I have a very good friend who's dad trusted whatever Fox news told him. But now, Fox news told him that Covid-19 wasn't a big deal, but it really really is. So now he doesn't trust Fox news anymore. Seriously, this guy has been on the Trump bandwagon the whole time because Fox told him to, and now he's off the Fox train. The sad thing is he has no idea who to listen to now. He knows not to trust Fox, but he doesn't know who to trust.

That is sad. Reuters and AP News are widely considered both centrist and very reliable. Unfortunately for those withdrawing from Fox News, they are not televised infotainment services full of fancy graphics, outrageous statements, and air-headed GOP shills.

[Kris]

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped...

I have a very good friend who's dad trusted whatever Fox news told him. But now, Fox news told him that Covid-19 wasn't a big deal, but it really really is. So now he doesn't trust Fox news anymore. Seriously, this guy has been on the Trump bandwagon the whole time because Fox told him to, and now he's off the Fox train. The sad thing is he has no idea who to listen to now. He knows not to trust Fox, but he doesn't know who to trust.

I would suggest detaching themselves from major news networks and finding reliable sources of information coupled with fact checking, etc.

Sure, but as a Trump supporter, he has been taught that all of the reliable sources of information and fact checking resources are fake news. The cult won’t allow him to do this.

[RetiredAt63]

I have a FB friend in Arkansas. She is the Trumpiest trumper whoever trumped...

I have a very good friend who's dad trusted whatever Fox news told him. But now, Fox news told him that Covid-19 wasn't a big deal, but it really really is. So now he doesn't trust Fox news anymore. Seriously, this guy has been on the Trump bandwagon the whole time because Fox told him to, and now he's off the Fox train. The sad thing is he has no idea who to listen to now. He knows not to trust Fox, but he doesn't know who to trust.

If he doesn't want to watch any American news source, what about BBC?  I'd say CBC but a lot of Canadian news has content about American Federal government acts that are driving us crazy, so not a good source for someone coming off Fox news.

Or you could cause a total brain explosion and suggest Al Jazeera.  ;-)  Compared to it any American news channel might seem safe and cozy and American-focused, it is very international in its presentation.  I watched it while I was in New Zealand and it was good.   

[sui generis]

Someone in my Facebook feed posted a picture of what purported to be an empty hospital, commenting on the hoax, intended to force mail balloting so that Biden can win in November with "Obama style fraud". And several people agreed.

So if Biden does indeed win, there's the narrative.

[dandarc]

When simply "more people voting" is the death-knell for your party . . .

[PDXTabs]

Sure, but as a Trump supporter, he has been taught that all of the reliable sources of information and fact checking resources are fake news. The cult won’t allow him to do this.

Yup, and now that he sees that Fox is fake he thinks that they all are.

If he doesn't want to watch any American news source, what about BBC?  I'd say CBC but a lot of Canadian news has content about American Federal government acts that are driving us crazy, so not a good source for someone coming off Fox news.

These are good ideas! In fact, I said BBC and his daughter said CBC. Hopefully he can get there.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Sure, but as a Trump supporter, he has been taught that all of the reliable sources of information and fact checking resources are fake news. The cult won’t allow him to do this.

Yup, and now that he sees that Fox is fake he thinks that they all are.

If he doesn't want to watch any American news source, what about BBC?  I'd say CBC but a lot of Canadian news has content about American Federal government acts that are driving us crazy, so not a good source for someone coming off Fox news.

These are good ideas! In fact, I said BBC and his daughter said CBC. Hopefully he can get there.

Al Jazeera is a great global news channel also.

[dandarc]

When simply "more people voting" is the death-knell for your party . . .

Seeing as most people seem to be idiots, I'd be all for less people voting, as long as those people actually were knowledgeable, anyway.

There are too many people (including on this forum) who are only capable of seeing things from one side and both believe and spread misinformation.

Not that my thought would ever work in real life, but it's fun to think about.

The misinformation spread from the right > than that from the left.

That is Fox News' great achievement - convincing large numbers of people that high quality, politically central news sources such as the New York Times are "the extreme left and spreading fake news". When they themselves are only a little better than a propaganda machine.

That being said, I can't tell you how many people on my Facebook feed are complaining about "you're gonna have to pay back the stimulus check!" Even pushing back when I provide a detailed explanation of how that probably isn't true.

[MDM]

...politically central news sources such as the New York Times....

One would presume that a politically central news source would have endorsed at least one candidate from each of the major political parties in the past 60 years.  That does not describe the NYT.

One can go to news aggregators such as Real Clear Politics and find juxtaposed opposing views (e.g., "President Trump: Commander of Confusion" and "Dems, Media Try to Pin Blame on Trump. It Won't Work" from yesterday) from various sources, then read each and decide which seems more correct.

But the vast majority of news outlets exercise their first amendment rights to support the political position of their choice, be that right or left.

[bacchi]

One can go to news aggregators such as Real Clear Politics and find juxtaposed opposing views (e.g., "President Trump: Commander of Confusion" and "Dems, Media Try to Pin Blame on Trump. It Won't Work" from yesterday) from various sources, then read each and decide which seems more correct.

It's not only about presenting opposing views. It's also about what stories/op-eds they publish and where they're from. Some of their sources are questionable.

RCP isn't centrist.

[MDM]

One can go to news aggregators such as Real Clear Politics and find juxtaposed opposing views (e.g., "President Trump: Commander of Confusion" and "Dems, Media Try to Pin Blame on Trump. It Won't Work" from yesterday) from various sources, then read each and decide which seems more correct.

It's not only about presenting opposing views. It's also about what stories/op-eds they publish and where they're from. Some of their sources are questionable.

RCP isn't centrist.

If presenting opposing views and letting the reader decide which seems more correct isn't centrist, what is?

[GuitarStv]

One can go to news aggregators such as Real Clear Politics and find juxtaposed opposing views (e.g., "President Trump: Commander of Confusion" and "Dems, Media Try to Pin Blame on Trump. It Won't Work" from yesterday) from various sources, then read each and decide which seems more correct.

It's not only about presenting opposing views. It's also about what stories/op-eds they publish and where they're from. Some of their sources are questionable.

RCP isn't centrist.

If presenting opposing views and letting the reader decide which seems more correct isn't centrist, what is?

Would it be centrist to present an article about WWII, and follow it with an article denying the Holocaust?  Or to provide an article showing pictures of the Earth from space, followed with an article from flat Earthers denying that the world is round?

Sometimes opposing views are so full of shit they don't deserve the recognition that providing them a platform gives.  In these cases it's not centrist at all to give both 'sides' of the story.