Author Topic: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable  (Read 6368 times)

mustachejd

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When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« on: October 25, 2013, 10:45:01 AM »
I thought this scenario was interesting.  I don't ascribe to the writer's reason for frugality (claims that she lives well below her means to remind herself that there are those who are less fortunate), but I do understand the difficulty of having a different spending philosophy than your partner's.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/carolyn-hax-when-partners-dont-share-same-idea-of-comfortable/2013/10/01/a0679166-253c-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html

Dear Carolyn: I was taught by my parents to live frugally, which meant never using more than I needed. I would reuse clothes and keep a car until it practically fell apart. We always lived comfortably as a family, but it was definitely a test of limits because our space was only as much as we needed.

My new fiance has a very different view of frugality. He comes from a much stronger economic background than I did, and, while he lives well within his means and is never financially irresponsible, he has never had to be frugal.

Now, we’re considering buying a house together. I believe it’s important philosophically to limit oneself, if only as a reminder that others don’t have as much. In my opinion, we should have just enough to live reasonably well, and that’s it. It’s a value I would like to transfer to my children because it implies a consciousness for those less fortunate.

My husband-to-be, on the other hand, wants a nicer and bigger house with more yard than we could ever use. Such a purchase wouldn’t hurt his/our finances at all. We would certainly be more comfortable. But, to me, buying a bigger house would throw aside one of my most central core values: living modestly to make a statement about the importance of social equity.

My fiance’s lack of understanding about this point is putting me on the verge of breaking off the engagement. Sure, it’s his money (and, one day, our money), and he can spend it the way he wants. But if my children one day thought it was okay not to live frugally because of our example, I’d feel like I failed as a parent. Am I digging my heels in too much? Or is it a deal-breaker and is it time to call it quits? — Signed, Why Can’t He Just See It?
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I’ll start with the easy part: Living according to your values is important; understanding and being understood in your marriage is important; setting a good example for your someday children is important; weighing your choices now for their impact on these important things in the future is important.

And getting this all said is important, because the details that make up these big concepts get complicated quickly.

For example, when you’re living according to your values and sharing your life in marriage, whose values take precedence when his and yours don’t perfectly align? Do you think it’s okay to have issues on which you or he won’t budge? If so, and if this is one of them, then we can skip the rest: You tell him this is central to your life purpose, to the extent that you’re unwilling to marry unless he buys into your idea of economic fairness as driver of all material choices.

Note the your idea of. Another complication is that there isn’t just one lifestyle that underscores “the importance of social equity.” What if, say, you had a big house and used it to host charity benefits, or house foster children? What if a status-brand car would outlast any other? What about modeling generosity vs. frugality?

There’s also a lifetime’s worth of complexity in the word “reasonable.” Does “reasonable” living space include a guest room — to promote close family ties or idea-circulation via worldly visitors — or a home office so you can get by with one car? Or does “reasonable” mean shelter and hygiene, period? Does the amount of yard you can “use” change if you’re growing your own food, or teaching kids about nature and giving them room to be independent?

How did you decide where to draw all these lines — did you put your own thoughts and self into their placement, or did you just trace over Daddy’s?

And your fiance: Is he just about desires, or does he have a core? Do you know it well? Respect it?

Which brings us to where it gets really fun: Imagine your fiance signs on to your whole philosophical program, lives it with you and helps teach it to your kids — and your kids use their 800-square-foot compassionate-childhood experience to shape a firm belief in as much house as their borrowing power can wrangle them, because, with God as their witness, they’ll never bump into siblings again.

“Our example” is up to you, but what they do with it is up to them. You can and should teach values, but you cannot “transfer” them.

Which brings us back to your fiance and the possible deal-breaker. If you and he haven’t dug into all this thoroughly enough to get at whats and whys like these, then I don’t think you’re in a position to break or even make any deals, much less impress future kids.

A couple’s thinking won’t always match. It can’t. But matching the depth of it, and its transparency, is a worthy bar to clear.

Forcus

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 11:15:29 AM »
I agree with the advice. But I hope the husband to be reads the column and chews his leg out of that bear trap.

Eric

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 11:44:14 AM »
I agree with the advice. But I hope the husband to be reads the column and chews his leg out of that bear trap.

Hahahaha.  Excellent!

Guy Incognito

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2013, 11:44:45 AM »
I actually understand and agree with the writer/author's viewpoint entirely.  Does that make me crazy? The two posters above seem to think so.

I am frugal by nature, and, a large part of the reason I strive to live below my means is due to the philosophical principles she describes.  I want to have enough to get by and be comfortable -- but I have no desire to live in luxury and in fact it makes me apprehensive/uncomfortable...  My wife on the other hand greatly values and enjoys things, and so I can relate to and understand the author's dilemna.  As a made up wild example, I just wouldn't feel right about, say, spending my money on a 6,000sq ft home or a Mercedes even if I was a multi-multi-millionaire, because there are many out there that have no housing or transportation at all.  WWJD and all that right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not depriving my family or anything (wife would never allow that, ha)...and I do believe everyone absolutely has every right to spend their money in any possible way they see fit.  But I understand and relate to the author.  Interesting to see others' perspectives on this because my wife thinks I'm nuts on this concept.

Forcus

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 11:57:13 AM »
I actually understand and agree with the writer/author's viewpoint entirely.  Does that make me crazy? The two posters above seem to think so.

I didn't quite get that from the original writer's view point. I got that she was being a martyr for martyr's sake. The "shaping her children's core beliefs" sounded more to me "they will believe exactly as I do and not be allowed to have their own beliefs, which would naturally be less perfect than my own". She also sounds like she has these beliefs... but does not do anything about them except feel shame. Not real useful. Doesn't sound like what you described yourself as either.

Jamesqf

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2013, 12:14:08 PM »
But, to me, buying a bigger house would throw aside one of my most central core values: living modestly to make a statement about the importance of social equity.

I think if I was this person's fiance and read this, I'd run - fast. 

mustachejd

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2013, 01:04:30 PM »
I actually understand and agree with the writer/author's viewpoint entirely.  Does that make me crazy? The two posters above seem to think so.

I didn't quite get that from the original writer's view point. I got that she was being a martyr for martyr's sake. The "shaping her children's core beliefs" sounded more to me "they will believe exactly as I do and not be allowed to have their own beliefs, which would naturally be less perfect than my own". She also sounds like she has these beliefs... but does not do anything about them except feel shame. Not real useful. Doesn't sound like what you described yourself as either.

That was pretty much how I read her letter, too.

I like to think that I spend less money than most of my colleagues because I have different priorities for my dollars, not because I took some oath of poverty to make myself feel better. 

Guy Incognito: So, hypothetically speaking, if someone offered you a Mercedes (or some other luxury vehicle) for free, you wouldn't take it because there are folks who aren't as fortunate?  (In this hypothetical, pretend that this luxury car gets excellent gas mileage =P)  You remind me of my cousin - she works in the upper echelons of Mercedes management and gets to lease a Benz for free.  However, her husband is a minister and she said she would feel absolutely awful if she drove a nicer vehicle than their parishioners.  So she always gives the car to my uncle.

MrsPete

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2013, 01:22:49 PM »
Two thoughts:

Agreeing on how to spend one's money (and other resources) is tremendously important in a marriage.  If the writer has accurately portrayed the situation, this couple is likely to butt heads on details:  They're both in the mood for Italian, but he wants to go out, while she wants to pop a Stouffer's lasagna into the oven.  They're planning a vacation, and he wants to go on a cruise, while she thinks camping is more practical.  A marriage is not likely to be successful if the two can't agree on how they're going to spend -- most of the time anyway. 

Both parties are likely to undergo changes in their way of thinking about money as they grow older. I know that when we were first married, one of my goals was to own a really nice, large house.  Today, although I could easily pay cash for the house I used to want, that is no longer appealing in the least -- today I think more about having to clean the house!  I suppose the point is, The two need to communicate and work together on how they're going to spend.

mustachejd

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2013, 01:30:08 PM »
I know that when we were first married, one of my goals was to own a really nice, large house.  Today, although I could easily pay cash for the house I used to want, that is no longer appealing in the least -- today I think more about having to clean the house! 

This is exactly how I feel :). 

Heather

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 02:04:33 PM »
There are cultures where self promotion is treated with disdain.
Imagine that this was how you were raised.  It might really be hard to stomach, to live in a house that showed you to be better than others.   


Forcus

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 02:08:34 PM »
They're both in the mood for Italian, but he wants to go out, while she wants to pop a Stouffer's lasagna into the oven.

I think it was more like, he wants to go out, she wants to go to the back alley of the Italian place and eat out of the dumpster to protest social injustice.

Woodshark

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 03:08:07 PM »
I wonder if the air is thin up there on that high moral horse she's riding.  Heck I'm frugal but damn, what a martyr attitude!  "There are villages without clean running water so we will turn off the water and draw our water from the creek.  There is almost no refrigeration in the outback so the refrigerator goes to curb and we will live off dirty water and dried beans."  Where do you draw the line?

I grew up in the projects so I'm not exactly from a privileged childhood but this sounds like a self made bed of nails to me.

MrsPete

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 04:40:51 PM »
I grew up in the projects so I'm not exactly from a privileged childhood but this sounds like a self made bed of nails to me.
Yeah, this poor farm girl has trouble understanding it too. 

Zikoris

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2013, 07:13:14 PM »
I can kind of understand the sheer discomfort factor - as a pretty big anti-consumer minimalist, I would be totally not cool with living in a huge house and the through-the-roof consumption that would probably go along with it. Someone might be able to talk me up to a 2 bedroom apartment, but I've always been more comfortable in smaller spaces, and I greatly appreciate a place that's easy to keep clean.

That said, I don't go out and date people who want those things, let alone get engaged to them - this seems like some pretty deep-rooted incompatibility, in line with one person wanting 6 kids and the other wanting to get sterilized. Surely she could find someone more suitably matched?

Jamesqf

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Re: When partners don’t share same idea of comfortable
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2013, 10:24:33 PM »
I can kind of understand the sheer discomfort factor - as a pretty big anti-consumer minimalist, I would be totally not cool with living in a huge house and the through-the-roof consumption that would probably go along with it. Someone might be able to talk me up to a 2 bedroom apartment, but I've always been more comfortable in smaller spaces, and I greatly appreciate a place that's easy to keep clean.

I could understand it if it was just a matter of comfort: I could easily afford a much larger house than the one I own, could drive a new luxury car, etc.  I don't because I like living the way I chose to live.

But this woman doesn't seem to be looking for a comfort factor.  Instead, she's actively seeking discomfort, trying to make herself a martyr to her ideas of social justice.  In a different time, she might have joined one of the flagellant sects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellant and gotten her kicks that way.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!