Thinking of selling my Tesla. Ashamed to drive and own.

[EchoStache]

I made the financial mistake of buying a brand new Tesla M3 a bit over two years ago.  2023 M3 that now has 29k miles.  My plan, once it no longer made much financial sense to sell it, was to drive it for 10 years and get every pennies worth of my money out of it due to its low maintenance and low operating costs.

However, I believe there comes a time where we cannot stand by idly and not take action against evil.  I do not feel good driving a car made by a company headed by someone who thinks it is ok to perform a fascist salute.  A salute that is the symbol of those responsible for perhaps the most atrocious crime against humanity in the past century.

I'm guessing I would be lucky to net much more than $25k from the car at this point, maybe $30k if lucky.  I suppose I would replace it with perhaps a very low mileage Honda Clarity for under $20k before tax credit, if it still exists.  There would not be much if any financial gain.  There is no way I would consider buying a Tesla now with Elon at the helm.  My hope is that Tesla stock tanks so badly as a result of his actions that he is booted from the company.  I see a realistic path where Tesla stock does tank very badly.  Sales were already down for the first time ever, before he performed his disgusting salute.  I suspect that as he continues to fail on his promise to launch FSD and robotaxi, and sales and profit margins tank sharply due to his actions, Tesla stock has a high probability of being decimated until they remove him.  That would be justice, and fair consequences for his actions. 

Thoughts on this decision?

[markpst]

I'd keep it - Elon already has your money. I get that you are still making a statement by selling. So, if it makes you feel that bad every time you see it though, sell it and take the loss if you must. (I'm not saying this would necessarily mean a loss - maybe you can find a good deal buying and selling on your own.) If dealerships are involved, you will more likely lose out a bit.

What scares me is the unknown - what if the replacement car ends up having issues? That is one of the reasons there is a premium for something brand new.

[mistymoney]

I endorse the idea and am considering selling mine too.

[Omy]

I REALLY wanted a Tesla several years ago. So glad I never bought one. I'd definitely be selling if I had one.

[NorCal]

I'm in a similar situation with a Model Y.  I won't own another Tesla again.

I'll also never own a gas car again.  Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

Continuing to own a Tesla is still WAY better than putting money back into the pockets of the oil & gas companies.  The amount of money your household could be spending on gasoline dwarfs any benefits to other "resistance" type actions. 

My plan is to keep the Tesla for a few more years until I can better justify the depreciation/transaction costs.  There's also a number of lower priced EV's on the horizon that should make the decision more financially palatable. 

I don't blame anyone for making the decision to ditch Tesla though.  Just don't turn it into a decision that puts more revenue into oil-lobbying groups.  That's counter productive. 

[jeninco]

One of my neighbors purchased a Tesla this past fall, and was so boyishly gleeful to have it. Every time I walk by, I think "I never guessed you'd be the type to purchase a Swasticar, but now I guess I know that about you."

You could at least put on a bumper sticker that says something like "I bought this before Elon went full Nazi" (although, he was kinda bonkers two years ago, honestly)

[Sibley]

One of the reasons to pursue FIRE is to have options. Options to fix mistakes, to take chances, to start again, to take a stand, to do good, to help someone or something.

Is money really more important than your conscience?

[lifeisshort123]

Model Y owner here.... The car works well... I hear you... I'd just also say that any time we put trust or hope in a company to reflect our values we are likely to be disappointed...

My vote would be keep the car.... Unless you truly don't care about the money at all, in which case sure... sell it at a loss and buy a Mustang Mach-E, Electric Blazer/Equinox, or upgrade to the R1 or hold out hope for the R2...

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I've disliked Elon for a very long time, and was opposed to buying a Tesla (and, overruled the request of my family) years ago. As a result, we are in the minority in the bay area with a Chevy Bolt. I love this car, & would absolutely recommend it. If I had a Tesla, I would sell it (assuming it wouldn't cause some sort of enormous financial hardship, but if you are driving a Tesla, I assume that's mostly not a factor.)

[Cannot Wait!]

Cover the whole thing in statement bumper stickers.

[ROF Expat]

You bought the car in good faith.  Getting rid of it doesn't really take anything away from Musk or Tesla, it just means someone else pays Tesla for maintenance/repair and hands you a depreciation loss earlier than you planned. 

Personally, I'd put a couple of bumper stickers on it to make your position clear and keep driving it.  If your conscience will bother you, you could either sell the car or keep it and convert the depreciation loss you avoid into a donation to a group that is countering some of Musk's more egregious actions. 

[Paper Chaser]

Used Bolts with very reasonable mileage are selling for under $15k these days.

[jrhampt]

One of my friends got rid of her Tesla recently for the same reasons you're considering it.  I don't know what she replaced it with, but I do know that my other friends who wanted to go EV and were considering Tesla before Musk went Nazi went with a lightly used Kia Niro EV that they got a really good deal on and they have been so happy with it that they now have a second Kia EV for the spouse.  If you have the time, money, and motivation to do this, go for it.

[ATtiny85]

OK, so it is time to keep an eye out for a good deal on a Tesla, and then try to negotiate it down to a great deal.

People can call me or my things anything they want if I can get a large enough discount due to emotions.

[JupiterGreen]

You bought the car in good faith.  Getting rid of it doesn't really take anything away from Musk or Tesla, it just means someone else pays Tesla for maintenance/repair and hands you a depreciation loss earlier than you planned. 

Personally, I'd put a couple of bumper stickers on it to make your position clear and keep driving it.  If your conscience will bother you, you could either sell the car or keep it and convert the depreciation loss you avoid into a donation to a group that is countering some of Musk's more egregious actions.

Yeah this is a good take. But in the end, it's a decision you have to feel good about. If I felt bad every time I got in my car, I might think about selling it too (regardless of the reason why I felt bad). OP, I appreciate this kind of self reflection in people, thanks for sharing your evolving thoughts on where you choose to spend your dollars and the company Tesla.

[neo von retorch]

There is, of course, a chance Tesla becomes an increasingly toxic brand, flooding the market and causing a crash in used Tesla pricing. In which case, the sooner you sell the better.

Then it's a bit of a logical decision and not "just" because it's embarrassing to own a car associated with Nazi symbolism.

What are the actual numbers? Cost you paid, miles you put into it, and what it will sell for right now?

What would the replacement car cost you?

[HenryDavid]

When someone gives a Seig Heil salute, reatedly, I’m going to distance myself from that person in every possible way. And make noise about it.
We can all disagree about subtle things. Nazi stuff, no. Not subtle.

So, selling is good. Lotsa stickers maybe 2nd best?
It’s a shame but things change.

[GilesMM]

I would dump it before things get worse and you both ashamed to drive it and unable to sell it. His supporters are anti-EV so they won’t buy it either.

[lhamo]

I support the idea of selling.

FWIW, my Ph.D. advisor has a Nissan Leaf (charged off rooftop solar panels) and loves it.  So that might be another option to look at.

I've also been very happy with my 2015 Ford C-Max hybrid.  Sad they stopped making them for the US market.  Not sure if Ford has any fully chargeable vehicles.

[Steveray7071]

I think this is a very silly decision unless you apply the same filter to every single thing that you purchase.  In the end, you own a vehicle that you purchased from a publicly traded company - It is not a reflection of your support for Musk. 

[Luke Warm]

I mean, you could go set it on fire in front of Elon's house or the White House if you want to make a statement. I'd do the bumper sticker thing and drive it into the ground. Wasn't VW associated with Hitler?

[achvfi]

I admire your thought and this is not a silly discussion. I am glad to see peoples eyes open to monster we all created and enabled. Elon musk loves to push limits as long as he can get away with it. With US govt on his side he has little to no barriers and he will not stop now and his antics will only get worse globally. He is also a useful tool for Trump to shift some blame elsewhere. He is a useful idiot.

That being said, you are here because you are interested in financial independence. So my suggestion is to do what keeps that goal from derailing. Honestly getting rid of the car is likely a neutral decision to financial independence goals. I think depreciation and deflation will continue with tarnished brand for both used on new teslas. If you use the resulting equity to get a cheaper EV or PHEV that makes sense. Used/new car tax credits might help too.

Good luck on the difficult decision.

[Arbitrage]

We recently purchased a Tesla, but bought it used through a Toyota dealership.  We purchased after the election, and actually raced to purchase at that point to capture the used EV tax credit.  There was already an Elon stigma, though not to the extent that there is today.

Though I certainly don't like the associations that the car now brings, there's been no consideration of selling.  I personally justify it by knowing that:
(a) We purchased used, and not from Tesla, so Elon didn't get any money from us.  Sure, one could argue the second-order effect of slightly helping resale values, or that one day we might need Tesla parts/maintenance/charging.  Hoping to minimize that.
(b) While the oil companies are not causing the acute pain that Elon is these days, they've been evil for a very long time, and will continue to be evil for the foreseeable future.  Supporting them less, and contributing less to climate change is good.
(c) Car culture is terrible and destructive, and I mostly e-bike to get around anyhow. 

Now, the random observer isn't going to know any of this, and we're going to have to accept that.  I do have very little patience for people passing judgment on my decisions while ignoring the terrible corporations and people they're supporting with their dollars.

Ideally, we would've gotten a different EV, but there wasn't a great deal of choice in the 'used EV tax credit-eligible' bucket. 

[classicrando]

I see what you're saying about not wanting to be associated with Tesla.  I saw a comment on Reddit this morning that seems semi-relevant to the discussion:

Spoiler: show

I've also seen a few posts about cybertrucks getting trashed and vandalized.  So maybe up your insurance and park it on the street more often?

[Must_ache]

Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

200,000 miles / 30mpg = 6,667 gallons x $3/gal = $20,000.

What if all car manufactures made the hand gesture Musk did?  Would you drive an Amish horse and buggy?  That hand gesture was stupid but has Musk actually done anything in line with that.  He just sounds like an intelligent guy volunteering his time to get rid of atrocious government waste. 

[Scandium]

I'll also never own a gas car again.  Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

How does this math work? $45k at $3.5/gallon is almost 13,000 gallons. At 35 mpg that's 450,000 miles I don't think most cars drive that far? At best half that. (not to mention that profit is ofc way less than revenue)

[mistymoney]

I'll also never own a gas car again.  Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

How does this math work? $45k at $3.5/gallon is almost 13,000 gallons. At 35 mpg that's 450,000 miles I don't think most cars drive that far? At best half that. (not to mention that profit is ofc way less than revenue)

aren't there a lot of subsidies to gas and oil to keep the price to consumers lower?

[Scandium]

I'll also never own a gas car again.  Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

How does this math work? $45k at $3.5/gallon is almost 13,000 gallons. At 35 mpg that's 450,000 miles I don't think most cars drive that far? At best half that. (not to mention that profit is ofc way less than revenue)

aren't there a lot of subsidies to gas and oil to keep the price to consumers lower?

Sure.
"In 2022, fossil fuel subsidies in the United States totaled $757 billion, according to the International Monetary Fund. "
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-reduce-fossil-fuel-subsidies-january-2024

But since oil is a globally fungible good so me not using it doesn't really have an impact on that.  Not saying it's not good to reduce one's personal fossil fuel reliance, but the impact on the global economy is vastly overstated. So I'm not going to make a personal financial sacrifice for that reason alone.

[GilesMM]

I'll also never own a gas car again.  Every gas car coming off the assembly line creates a ~$45k revenue stream for the oil & gas companies that now effectively own the EPA and DOE.  I would rather take a financial hit on a car than to continue contributing to that revenue stream. 

How does this math work? $45k at $3.5/gallon is almost 13,000 gallons. At 35 mpg that's 450,000 miles I don't think most cars drive that far? At best half that. (not to mention that profit is ofc way less than revenue)

aren't there a lot of subsidies to gas and oil to keep the price to consumers lower?

The so-called subsidies are to encourage economic development and spur domestic production to keep supplies high and prices lower. But they are subject to global supply and demand which dominates prices along with a lot of speculation about politics. States add a great deal of tax to pay for roads and other stuff which increases prices to consumers. Some stations show the gas tax amount on the pump. I’m in California this week where the tax is $.60/gallon. Fed tax is another $.18/gallon. Add in sales taxes and it is around $1/ gallon total; more than 20% of the total pump price.

[Kathryn K.]

One of the reasons to pursue FIRE is to have options. Options to fix mistakes, to take chances, to start again, to take a stand, to do good, to help someone or something.

Is money really more important than your conscience?

+1. Well said.

[windytrail]

Sell your cars, ride a bike. Join the cool kids' club.

[Fru-Gal]

Sell your cars, ride a bike. Join the cool kids' club.

Yes! Sell!

Also consider an e-bike, which is a fantastic and super fun car replacement the whole family will love. I have one and my teen/young adult kids and their friends all want to borrow mom’s bike.

[englishteacheralex]

Sell. Covering it with stickers is silly, in my opinion. Either sell it and get rid of it or resign yourself to not being as principled as you thought. Half-measures seem useless.

I own a 2020 Leaf that I bought used in 2022. It's fine.

[RedmondStash]

Sell it.

I always wanted to buy a Tesla, and I'm really annoyed that now I never will, but I never will.

Look at it this way: If you had however much you could get for it in your pocket ($25k?), and you didn't own the Tesla but knew someone who was selling it for $25k, would you buy it? Or would you buy something else?

No shade if you decide not to sell it. You didn't know at the time what you know now, and not everyone has the luxury of being able to vote with their pocketbook at all times. But I think selling it will make you feel better.

Also if you sell it, just think how gleeful you will be every time Telsa stock drops or you read an article about owners selling their used Teslas. You'll be Part Of Something.

[blahme]

Does any rational person who has researched the "supposed" nazi salute still believe that is what he did?

Thankfully we still live in a free economy, so if you feel better about yourself if you sell, please sell ASAP!

[VanillaGorilla]

I suppose I'll be a contrarian. Hold on to the car. Selling it accomplishes nothing except virtue signaling - Tesla already made the money from the sale.

This is a FIRE forum. From a FIRE perspective, you overspent on an unnecessary luxury purchase by buying precisely the Tesla that you wanted with all the bells and whistles, while the price was particularly high, and justified it by planning to keep it for a long time. Then you justified an expensive solar installation as the best way to keep the EV charged. You already had one non-Tesla EV that you recently sold at a substantial loss, do you really want to lose $30k on your other EV by owning it during its highest depreciation years? You already extended your working life by at least a year buying this car, do you want to extend your working life by an another year by selling it now?

You've been upfront with your dissatisfaction with your savings rate - this sort of behavior is the root cause. Hold on to the Tesla. In six months Musk might well have fallen from Trump's graces and be out of the political picture. If not, use the car to remind yourself not to splurge on hugely expensive items under the justification that you intend to keep it for a long time.

I bought a Tesla recently. I regret doing so for a variety of reasons. But I'm not going to sell it because of CEO political antics.

[volleyballer]

I sold my Tesla stock (at a handsome profit) as protest, but won't sell my Tesla (2023 M3P with FSD that I loooooove). The depreciation loss will hurt me a lot more than the sale will hurt elon. I will reevaluate my ownership once I get to 60k miles (bumper to bumper) and 120k (battery / drivetrain) warranty break points based on reliability. Unless Elon is in jail or on a one way trip to exile on Mars or otherwise not in control of TSLA, I won't be buying another. If the car holds up fine, I'll try and get to 150k or higher mileage.

Eta - I don't think that keeping the car imparts much marginal gain to Elon. One could try to find independent EV service shops and charge at third party fast chargers to really minimize incremental revenue to Elon.

Eta - I bought it used, from Tesla, about a month before Elon publicly declared Trump as his lord and savior :-/

[Cannot Wait!]

Float it on the market at an inflated price, maybe a Musk fan will buy it?

[wageslave23]

This is why nobody takes liberals seriously anymore when they claim racism.  Now it's ok they're "racist" but is it actually racism or like the time the socially awkward aspergers Elon made a nazi salute - even though he's never said or done anything else to suggest he's racist.

[Kris]

This is why nobody takes liberals seriously anymore when they claim racism.  Now it's ok they're "racist" but is it actually racism or like the time the socially awkward aspergers Elon made a nazi salute - even though he's never said or done anything else to suggest he's racist.

This is why no one takes conservatives seriously anymore.

The road to fascism is paved with people saying everyone is overreacting.

[Retire-Canada]

If I had a Tesla I'd sell it.

[kenner]

This is why nobody takes liberals seriously anymore when they claim racism.  Now it's ok they're "racist" but is it actually racism or like the time the socially awkward aspergers Elon made a nazi salute - even though he's never said or done anything else to suggest he's racist.

This is why no one takes conservatives seriously anymore.

The road to fascism is paved with people saying everyone is overreacting.

Yep.  "Do not do things that align yourself with Nazis" seems like an amazingly minimum standard to apply, and the idea that Musk is somehow too 'awkward' to understand that is pretty damn condescending to those of us who also have ASD level 1 diagnoses (the updated terminology for Aspergers, partially due to those Nazis again, although that I can understand people being less familiar with) and yet have somehow managed to wrap our heads around that idea.

To go back to the original topic, personally I'd probably sell the car, but all-electric doesn't work for my usage model so I can't speak to specific tradeoffs with other all-electric vehicles.

[simonsez]

Wait, are there really this many people that care about stuff like this with Tesla and stupid hand gestures or whatever the issue du jour is with that guy but have no problem owning car brands the actual Nazis used while typing on their smartphone or laptop made with cobalt slave labor? I get it's impossible to not be hypocritical to an extent buying goods in a developed country but this smells like manufactured outrage and I'm wondering who benefits.

To each their own! Signal that virtue! Granted I've never owned a Tesla nor have they ever been on my radar for various reasons, a main one being they're a luxury brand and while my household is not opposed to all luxury goods, we don't spend dollars on luxury cars.

Music hits me way deeper. A car to me is pretty impersonal and when I use it, I don't see or hear the engineer or CEO. It's just a tool.  But with music, I admit that it's harder to listen to a MJ song on one of my playlists and not be tempted to skip or just be a little bummed and conflicted. Same with Chuck Berry and many others. But it is next to impossible for me to care much less than I already do about the actions, thoughts, etc. of a top person at a car manufacturer. Do they make a good product or not? But again, if someone owns a product and wants to sell it, go for it.

[simonsez]

Any Ford owners on this forum? Henry Ford published antisemitic newspaper articles well after the brand was established. Quite a step up from a hand gesture.

[GilesMM]

Any Ford owners on this forum? Henry Ford published antisemitic newspaper articles well after the brand was established. Quite a step up from a hand gesture.

He later apologized but it certainly tarnished his reputation. Of course, at this point, Ford doesn’t make such great vehicles either.

[neo von retorch]

If you think it's just a hand gesture than how to you explain his stated support of AfD? He literally visited and endorsed the existing far right party of Germany. Are you not paying attention or are you in denial?

You can ignore the hand gesture and still come to the same conclusions. He came from South Africa and is in a club of white men from South Africa that supported apartheid. This is not a logical leap here people.

[Fru-Gal]

There are 3 reasons why boycotting Tesla is not pointless virtue signaling:

1, Musk is actively violating laws and people are upset about it, but since he's unelected the only way to express that is via boycott.
2, Musk's fortune depends on Tesla's stock valuation and government contracts. He claims to want to save taxpayer dollars. Since this is obviously a lie (the quickest way to save taxpayer dollars would be to reduce contracting to companies like his), consumers can send a message that they will stop propping up his fortune with their own dollars.
3, Doing Nazi salutes at the inauguration was inappropriate and shocking, and hit a deep nerve with the public.

The third reason is likely the most important. People act emotionally. Musk committed a grave emotional error by associating his companies, intentionally or jokingly, with the Nazi regime.

[darkadams00]

OP, do what you will, I agree with earlier posters—apply this idea to everything you buy, or it’s just virtue signaling for/against the latest outrage. We live in such a tangled, corporately merged economy now, we’d have to homestead and make our own clothes to avoid bad companies, bad CEOs, bad countries, child labor, illegal sweat shops, nefarious banking/pharma/ag/energy practices, and spokespersons of the most ill repute (for simplicity, I won’t argue whether Musk is good or bad). And then to question every purchase under the “5 years later” lens? That would be worse than trying to keep up with my portfolio on a daily basis—just exhausting and not practical. Have you even considered the supply chain of the phone/tablet/laptop you used to start this thread?

If I bought something out of support for a person/cause/company/church and said person/institution dropped the ball, I’d consider a change. If I bought something that optimized my life at that time with no regard for the person/institution, I’d shrug and move on. Sounds like a lot of people worshipped at the cool altar of Tesla and wrote a check for an exorbitant offering they’re reconsidering now that their EV Jesus has gone in an unexpected direction.

[Fru-Gal]

When people who bought his product feel upset at his actions and want to divest, that's pointless virtue signaling.

When Musk spends his day on a website trading insults and threats, that's very important virtue signaling.

[Telecaster]

Any Ford owners on this forum? Henry Ford published antisemitic newspaper articles well after the brand was established. Quite a step up from a hand gesture.

He sure did.  He also died 80 years ago, so trying to send him a message by not buying one of his namesake cars might not have much of an effect.