Author Topic: Obamacare v Medicare in New York  (Read 1667 times)

djadziadax

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Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« on: July 25, 2019, 01:58:47 PM »
I recently read on the forum the discussion about income in retirement and the effect on Obamacare subsidies, and went to the NY State healthcare site to estimate my premiums. I was floored - for a parent+one child, for income around 33K, the premium was about 600$ for a silver plan after the subsidy, with a deductible of 14K...WTH??? Below 33K they force to you Medicare. See the attachement.

Is Obamacare really this expensive?

Anyone with personal experience with this?

I cannot even imagine budgeting $800 a month for healthcare in about 3 years when we plan to FIRE.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 02:02:53 PM by djadziadax »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2019, 02:20:39 PM »
First off, I think you mean you would be on Medicaid based on your income level, not Medicare.

For adults you would generally need to be below 138% of the poverty level to be on Medicaid, but kids often have higher income limits due to the federal CHIP program. Here in Washington what they do if you're between the income limits is put the adults on a private ACA plan and the kids on the Medicaid/CHIP plan, but as Medicaid is partly state-managed they may do it differently in New York.

When I look on my local exchange for a one adult/one kid family with $33k income, I see silver plans (for the adult only) ranging from $166-$310/month after premium subsidies. Individual deductibles range from $1,900 to $5,325, depending on the plan. The kid would have no premium for their coverage.

Now, it's important to note that the $33k figure happens to be just above the line for 200% of the poverty level. If you go just below this line, some pretty nice cost sharing subsidies kick in for the silver plan. Changing my income estimate to $32k the net premiums are about the same as before, but the deductibles now range from $500 to $1,900. Much more predictable out-of-pocket costs at this level!

jim555

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 02:23:54 PM »
NY has the Essential Plan for 200% FPL and below, which is excellent.  Above 200% is a mini cliff.  Also Medicaid is NY is fine.
Plug the numbers in for sub 200% and you will see a big drop in your costs.

$20 a month for sub 200% FPL, no other state can come close to how low that is.  NY implemented the Basic Health Plan provision of the ACA giving much lower costs.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 02:34:40 PM by jim555 »

mathlete

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 02:25:01 PM »
I think you're confusing "Medicare" for "Medicaid", and "Out of Pocket Max" with "Deductible".

But yes, Obamacare healthcare really is that expensive. Roughly half of the country gets their coverage through an employer, and so they're shielded from the full cost of their coverage.

The US Healthcare model assumes that you will be some combination of destitute/on your parent's plan/employed between ages 18 and 65. It wasn't designed to cover people who are retiring early to pursue leisure. The ACA at the very least, provides a guaranteed issue option so you can't be denied coverage if you're already sick. But if you're not sufficiently low income enough, you'll have to pay the full cost.

Unless something substantial changes, I would plan on working a little longer if I were you. But this is the unfortunate "other side of the coin" that is living in a country with low taxes and ample tax sheltering for investments.

Acastus

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2019, 02:28:23 PM »
You should sign your child up for Child Health Plus, and get a single policy for yourself on NY State of Health. CHP will cost $9 or $15 per month, and a single policy is roughly $200-250 per month for silver. You are just over the 200% poverty threshold with 33k, so you cannot use the Essential plan.

This is yet another case of government benefits phasing out poorly. If you took  a 1k pay cut, your premium would be nearly free.

Edit:  You are very close to the threshold of 200% FPL. Talk to NY State of Health to see if you are below it based on your exact imcome, if known. It could save you a bundle.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 02:34:06 PM by Acastus »

wenchsenior

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 04:21:49 PM »
I think you're confusing "Medicare" for "Medicaid", and "Out of Pocket Max" with "Deductible".

But yes, Obamacare healthcare really is that expensive. Roughly half of the country gets their coverage through an employer, and so they're shielded from the full cost of their coverage.

The US Healthcare model assumes that you will be some combination of destitute/on your parent's plan/employed between ages 18 and 65. It wasn't designed to cover people who are retiring early to pursue leisure. The ACA at the very least, provides a guaranteed issue option so you can't be denied coverage if you're already sick. But if you're not sufficiently low income enough, you'll have to pay the full cost.

Unless something substantial changes, I would plan on working a little longer if I were you. But this is the unfortunate "other side of the coin" that is living in a country with low taxes and ample tax sheltering for investments.

Yes, healthcare of all kinds is the single biggest barrier to us seriously considering early retirement as well.  An re: the highlighted text...I think a lot of people truly don't realize just how expensive American health insurance is b/c so much cost is often borne by the employer. 

Consider this: We are 2 adults, 0 kids, covered through the 'standard' health insurance plan for federal employees (there are a couple cheaper options, which we don't use b/c of my chronic health conditions). 

Now, keep in mind that this is the same plan that Members of Congress used (and paid for) in the pre ACA days, and is frequently the subject of rage-filled memes complaining about how politicians or federal employees get 'cadillac' plans or 'free health care' while the rest of the nation has to suffer. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with this insurance plan and have no major complaints about it. But free it ain't.  We pay a 700$ deductible, copay of $25-35/visit, 15% of costs of in network tests/procedures, etc., and 10-50% of the cost of drugs.  Our premiums are just under $6,700/year BUT the gov't picks up almost $13,000 of the premium costs.

So total premiums for two people are ~$1,620/month.  Even with the employer picking up most of that, we often spend close to 10K/year on healthcare, between insurance and actual medical bills.

Needless to say, DH and I are well aware that we might need to be budgeting an additional 20K/year for costs related to healthcare/health insurance into our projected retirement budget, were we to retire early.

And of course, that doesn't even address the giant elephant in the room of potentially needing long term care at some point.

It's a real challenge, for sure.

FireLane

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2019, 06:52:54 PM »
I'm also in New York and I second the recommendation for the Essential Plan. That's what I intend to use. New York is one of only two states that offers this, we actually have better options than people living elsewhere!

Don't forget, early retirees get favorable tax treatment. Your spending might be $33K, but if you're retired and living off investments, your income for tax purposes will just be whatever fraction of that amount comes from capital gains and dividends. You may be interested in this post from my journal that goes into the math.

djadziadax

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 10:18:02 AM »
I'm also in New York and I second the recommendation for the Essential Plan. That's what I intend to use. New York is one of only two states that offers this, we actually have better options than people living elsewhere!

Don't forget, early retirees get favorable tax treatment. Your spending might be $33K, but if you're retired and living off investments, your income for tax purposes will just be whatever fraction of that amount comes from capital gains and dividends. You may be interested in this post from my journal that goes into the math.

Thanks for the tips, very helpful.

RedwoodDreams

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2019, 06:43:22 PM »
Also, don't forget that you can lower your MAGI (which is used to calculate the subsidy) by contributing to traditional IRAs and to HSAs. For my family of three (two of us age 50+ = 14k IRAs), one of us with an ACA plan with HSA (=4500 HSA), we lower our MAGI by $18,500 per year by doing this. It makes a huge difference in the premiums paid for my husband's ACA plan, and means my son is on Medi - Cal.

Norsky

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2019, 10:33:53 PM »
This is somewhat off topic but related. My wife and I are ready to retire @ current age 61, but are concerned about cost/availability of insurance till age 65. We live in Iowa and I hadn’t priced for a couple years. Knowing we are now going to retire to Minnesota I plugged in our info and got an estimate of about $16,000 for the 2 of us. In Iowa, it would be over $50,000 without subsidies, where it was approx $35,000 the last time I checked. We could live with the MN cost so long as we are confident the program won’t get cancelled. We would be uninsurable without ACA pre-existing condition protections. It’s amazing there can be this much difference between a red and blue state adjacent to one another in the Midwest.

djadziadax

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2019, 12:12:09 PM »
Also, don't forget that you can lower your MAGI (which is used to calculate the subsidy) by contributing to traditional IRAs and to HSAs. For my family of three (two of us age 50+ = 14k IRAs), one of us with an ACA plan with HSA (=4500 HSA), we lower our MAGI by $18,500 per year by doing this. It makes a huge difference in the premiums paid for my husband's ACA plan, and means my son is on Medi - Cal.

That is interesting, but would it work if you are already FIRE and don't have a traditional income? I.e., most of our income will be from divvy+cap gains+roth conversion, so may not be useful in that context.

EricEng

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2019, 12:50:27 PM »
This is somewhat off topic but related. My wife and I are ready to retire @ current age 61, but are concerned about cost/availability of insurance till age 65. We live in Iowa and I hadn’t priced for a couple years. Knowing we are now going to retire to Minnesota I plugged in our info and got an estimate of about $16,000 for the 2 of us. In Iowa, it would be over $50,000 without subsidies, where it was approx $35,000 the last time I checked. We could live with the MN cost so long as we are confident the program won’t get cancelled. We would be uninsurable without ACA pre-existing condition protections. It’s amazing there can be this much difference between a red and blue state adjacent to one another in the Midwest.
I just searched 50302 for Des Moines in Iowa.  It showed lots of plans for around $2-2.5k a month with no subsidy.  Not cheap, but not even close to your $35-50k/annual.  Plug in an expected income of $50k and you get a subsidy of $2,400 which made several plans free.  What zip code are you looking at?  That matters a lot.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2019, 01:06:36 PM »
This is somewhat off topic but related. My wife and I are ready to retire @ current age 61, but are concerned about cost/availability of insurance till age 65. We live in Iowa and I hadn’t priced for a couple years. Knowing we are now going to retire to Minnesota I plugged in our info and got an estimate of about $16,000 for the 2 of us. In Iowa, it would be over $50,000 without subsidies, where it was approx $35,000 the last time I checked. We could live with the MN cost so long as we are confident the program won’t get cancelled. We would be uninsurable without ACA pre-existing condition protections. It’s amazing there can be this much difference between a red and blue state adjacent to one another in the Midwest.

Minnesota is one of two states (New York being the other) that has a state-run program for folks under 200% of the poverty line. My mother was on the Minnesota program for a couple of years after my dad retired and before she was old enough for Medicare. She was quite happy with it.

Norsky

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Re: Obamacare v Medicare in New York
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2019, 08:49:19 AM »
This is somewhat off topic but related. My wife and I are ready to retire @ current age 61, but are concerned about cost/availability of insurance till age 65. We live in Iowa and I hadn’t priced for a couple years. Knowing we are now going to retire to Minnesota I plugged in our info and got an estimate of about $16,000 for the 2 of us. In Iowa, it would be over $50,000 without subsidies, where it was approx $35,000 the last time I checked. We could live with the MN cost so long as we are confident the program won’t get cancelled. We would be uninsurable without ACA pre-existing condition protections. It’s amazing there can be this much difference between a red and blue state adjacent to one another in the Midwest.
I just searched 50302 for Des Moines in Iowa.  It showed lots of plans for around $2-2.5k a month with no subsidy.  Not cheap, but not even close to your $35-50k/annual.  Plug in an expected income of $50k and you get a subsidy of $2,400 which made several plans free.  What zip code are you looking at?  That matters a lot.

I was using the Kaiser Foundation calculator at https://www.kff.org.  Plugging in 50302 zip code and 2 people aged 63 resulted in an estimate of $39,561. Glad to hear the actual exchange may have better results.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!