Author Topic: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting  (Read 43032 times)

lifeisshort123

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New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« on: August 15, 2022, 03:52:53 PM »
This idea is getting huge news coverage….

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/08/14/what-is-quiet-quitting/10304956002/?gnt-cfr=1

It seems to be that people are saying, I’m putting in my 8 hours, and nothing else.  It seems to me calling it “quiet quitting” seems like a bit of a misname. 

Freedomin5

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2022, 04:14:48 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

Kris

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2022, 04:19:23 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

lifeisshort123

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2022, 04:46:49 PM »
I see it in many ways.

- I often respond to emails after work when I am at home.
- I often feel that achieving results and giving my time and energy has yielded large pay increases, bonuses, growth opportunities, etc.

On the other hand, I feel like
- the stress increases
- it becomes a hamster wheel of keeping to need to do more and find more ways to achieve that growth

I also think that some of it is “I’m going to sit here during work time and do as little work as possible”.  I’m sure everyone has days like that, for a variety of reasons, but I do think if that is your attitude, you will probably enjoy work even less than those who at least want to try to be stimulated by the tasks and operations at hand.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2022, 05:10:57 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2022, 05:31:06 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2022, 05:39:36 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

bacchi

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2022, 06:05:10 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

And school districts wonder why they can't find teachers.

Metalcat

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2022, 06:19:18 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

And school districts wonder why they can't find teachers.

Yep. This is particularly common and problematic in traditionally female dominated careers where vulnerable people like children and patients are at risk. Workers step up and do what's needed without reasonable compensation because they feel responsible.

Well, younger women are less inclined to follow these awful career paths, so there are these massive shortages. In my particular professional over 99% of the support staff are female, the jobs are horrible, non-unionized, no upward mobility, and pay hasn't kept up with inflation.

I used to work in staffing and when I started in my clinic I looked at the women in these roles and came home saying "the industry is fucked when women stop pursuing this as a career path" because technology had driven up the clinic overhead costs, and no one could afford to pay their support staff more.

Lo and behold, about 5 years later, the majority of the vocational colleges that teach these staff had shut down due to lack of applicants. Qualified staff became impossible to find, salaries for even unqualified staff sky rocketed, qualified staff got aggressively poached by larger corporations, and there is no solution in sight for the problem.

Most of my colleagues who never saw it coming are now trusting patient well being in the hands of useless, horrible, incompetent staff, and the owners are just grateful that they show up...at least most of the time.

I remember giving talks at industry events about how this was a predictable crisis, and my colleagues thought I was insane. I kept asking them "would you encourage your daughter to pursue that career?" But they just couldn't grasp why someone wouldn't want to work long, hard, back breaking hours, under insane pressure, for $20/hr, no pension, no benefits, and being treated like shit by docs who make ten times more.

Like...it's not fucking rocket surgery folks.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 06:23:10 PM by Malcat »

PDXTabs

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2022, 07:18:06 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.

scottish

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2022, 07:50:56 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

Not arguing about your hours.   Teachers also get summers off, don't they?    That would be a good benefit, but I don't think I'd trade it for a regular 60 hour work week as a teacher.

This has become a huge problem for nursing staff in Canada.    I'm starting to think that we're collectively living beyond our means in many, many areas.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2022, 07:58:28 PM »
I happily left a 100% commission job where I regularly put in 50+ hours including lots of nights and weekends for a government job where I put in my 40 hours and left everything else at work at the end of the day.

Now that I'm self-employed it's probably more than that, but I'm building equity in my business, and I see the fruits of my labor. In the corporate/government world my work meant nothing in the grand scheme of things and any extra work could maybe result in a slight pay increase in the mid-term.

mspym

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2022, 08:13:09 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.
Yup, the bare minimum not to get fired. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coopted by businesses to apply to workers who refuse the extraction of unpaid labour. There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

Freedomin5

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2022, 11:31:10 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

Not arguing about your hours.   Teachers also get summers off, don't they?    That would be a good benefit, but I don't think I'd trade it for a regular 60 hour work week as a teacher.

This has become a huge problem for nursing staff in Canada.    I'm starting to think that we're collectively living beyond our means in many, many areas.

DH is a teacher. But he gets summers off, and he’s geographically arbitraged his way into a teaching position that compensates him well for the hours he puts in. He’s also made some choices that have allowed him to be fairly compensated for his teaching knowledge. Sometimes I wonder if people being willing to do more than what they’re contracted for may have created or continued a system that abuses the workers. Is there an easy solution to a systematic problem? No. But on an individual level, perhaps there might be options for individual teachers to choose to make them less of a victim to the system.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2022, 11:35:48 PM »
I think some people are conflating two very different things here: doing the bare minimum to not get fired (which usually equates to really very little) and doing your job in the allocated time as per your contract and then not taking on extra tasks, overtime, etc. (this should be the norm, no?). Drawing any kinds of parallels between these two is pretty shitty, in my opinion.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2022, 04:25:52 AM »
Quiet quitter here.

Put my 10-30 hours a week in (WFH) and do just enough to stay off the shit list. More/better work is rewarded with more work.

I worked for a toxic company in 2018/2019 where I pretty much stopped working all together and still collected a salary for 6 months. Ditto in 2017 when I got promoted into a role and they fired my manager on the 3rd day and the VP above her two weeks later. I spent 8 months with no oversight and no one even knew what I was supposed to be doing.

Large corporations can be a magical place.

chemistk

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2022, 06:21:38 AM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

Hi! I regularly put in 3-10 extra hours a week and sometimes more. If I don't, I have to make it up the following week. I work in a chemistry lab and science doesn't stop for an 8 hour workday. Sometimes, you can be clever with scheduling but part of my role is to be on call to support manufacturing facilities if they have issues so if I have a sample sent to me at 2PM, I can't exactly just leave the lab bench when the clock strikes 3:30.

roomtempmayo

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2022, 07:51:32 AM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

I've heard the term "contract strike" before, which is exactly what it sounds like: going "on strike" by working only your contracted hours and nothing more.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2022, 08:00:04 AM »
Back when "shelter-in-place" started becoming commonly used, I heard a variant of that which was "retire-in-place." Basically, it's doing the bare minimum required not to get fired while trying to maximize retirement benefits.
https://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Retired+in+Place

In my opinion, retire in place is a much better descriptor than quiet quitting.

jinga nation

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2022, 08:16:20 AM »
I "quiet quit" for 5 years at my last employer, a Fortune 500. There were those who worked hard and tirelessly to impress the team's manager. Then there were a few who did only what was tasked, then spent time doing online research for trading stocks/commodities/currency. I got my work done in 2 hours each day cumulative. Spent most of the time reading MMM/Bogleheads/FatWallet Finance, figuring out my IPS, asset allocation, searching for rental properties, reading RE investment forums, buying company stock on ESPP discount and selling, and learning AWS for fun. The last one got me noticed by a co-worker who was leaving, and a few months later, I was working for him; still am.
I'm no longer quiet quitting, haven't for nearly 5 years. We're encouraged to think outside the box and spend time reading and following our curiosity compass. Company pays us to learn new skills.

Old manager told us it didn't matter what we did or how hard we worked, we all got the same raise. only 1 person could get a 5/5, and even that had to be validated by 2 levels above manager. 10% got 3 or below, thankfully as we had some shit to get rid off. The bulk of us got 4. The pay rise diff between a 4 and 5 was 0.25%. Even the manager was tired of HR's stupidity and frustrated that talent would leave for greener pastures, which affected his pay/bonus.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 08:19:47 AM by jinga nation »

ATtiny85

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2022, 08:43:20 AM »
If the minimum standard wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum standard...

There are plenty of threads on here about people putting in long hours because they are overworked, but there are just as many where people are working long hours because they are terrible at the their jobs and have no idea how many simple efficiency gains there are.

I am in product engineering, and enjoy engineering. I am often thinking about various problems at all hours, and have had a few ah-ha moments while running, mowing, sitting, and so on. But I am not going to put in extra hours sitting at my desk to create sketches or do calculations, it can wait until morning.

Paul der Krake

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2022, 09:14:50 AM »
Well look at that, another news article about a trend that totally vindicates my views on all my pet issues at work. Am I ever wrong about anything?

BlueHouse

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2022, 09:17:36 AM »
There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

On a performance review early on in my career, I received all top marks except for one category (unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I have absolutely no recollection of what that one category was). 
The one category I received a "Satisfactory" rating.  I was very unhappy and I thought it was completely unfair.  My supervisor had to point out to me that "satisfactory" was defined on the review as me doing the job I was hired for.  And that it was not considered a negative. 

I still have trouble with that explanation.  We're a nation of people raised to believe that we must all be above average in every aspect.  We must all be exceptional.   Oh man, I'm finally seeing just how much I was hoodwinked.  That is "American Exceptionalism".  Tricking the worker into believing they owe more than what they're paid for so that each one of us can be the stand-out. 

Nowadays, I'd rather just be a cog in the wheel. 

Drink Coffee And Stack Money

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2022, 09:22:05 AM »

Old manager told us it didn't matter what we did or how hard we worked, we all got the same raise. only 1 person could get a 5/5, and even that had to be validated by 2 levels above manager. 10% got 3 or below, thankfully as we had some shit to get rid off. The bulk of us got 4. The pay rise diff between a 4 and 5 was 0.25%. Even the manager was tired of HR's stupidity and frustrated that talent would leave for greener pastures, which affected his pay/bonus.

This sounds like my current employer. Reviews are a shit-show at best.

Metalcat

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2022, 09:39:22 AM »
There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

On a performance review early on in my career, I received all top marks except for one category (unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I have absolutely no recollection of what that one category was). 
The one category I received a "Satisfactory" rating.  I was very unhappy and I thought it was completely unfair.  My supervisor had to point out to me that "satisfactory" was defined on the review as me doing the job I was hired for.  And that it was not considered a negative. 

I still have trouble with that explanation.  We're a nation of people raised to believe that we must all be above average in every aspect.  We must all be exceptional.   Oh man, I'm finally seeing just how much I was hoodwinked.  That is "American Exceptionalism".  Tricking the worker into believing they owe more than what they're paid for so that each one of us can be the stand-out. 

Nowadays, I'd rather just be a cog in the wheel.

I've mentioned it several times, but you should probably read "The Meritocracy Trap."

Also, in my business consulting, I've been training small business owners to stop expecting exceptional work from their staff. These are all medical professionals who internalized working long hours and self-sacrifice as a fundamental good, and they need to be trained to not expect that of their 40K/year staff.

I remember working with one clinic owner who was so frustrated she started crying in a meeting with me. She kept saying "I just want them to care about my practice as much as I do! I want the best of the best!" To which I burst out laughing and said "are you prepared to share your profits with them? If not, that's an insane expectation."

They're a category of people who've been indoctrinated to become superordinate workers and they can't understand anything else. Yet, they're all fucking miserable, depressed, plagued with addiction problems, and health issues. So they shouldn't exactly be setting the standard.

I've rehabbed a lot of clinics by getting everyone from the top down to focus on working *less* intensely.

Moustachienne

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2022, 09:52:04 AM »
I'm applying the "do less" approach to swimming these days (see clip below) but when I reflect on my career, it was the smoothest, most satisfying and yes, most productive when I learned to just lay on the surfboard and flow. :)  I managed other uptight professionals and had to constantly coach them towards this as well. It was a struggle for us all because it's counter cultural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoKnHoloDXQ&t=2s

iris lily

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2022, 10:12:53 AM »
There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

On a performance review early on in my career, I received all top marks except for one category (unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I have absolutely no recollection of what that one category was). 
The one category I received a "Satisfactory" rating.  I was very unhappy and I thought it was completely unfair.  My supervisor had to point out to me that "satisfactory" was defined on the review as me doing the job I was hired for.  And that it was not considered a negative. 

I still have trouble with that explanation.  We're a nation of people raised to believe that we must all be above average in every aspect.  We must all be exceptional.   Oh man, I'm finally seeing just how much I was hoodwinked.  That is "American Exceptionalism".  Tricking the worker into believing they owe more than what they're paid for so that each one of us can be the stand-out. 

Nowadays, I'd rather just be a cog in the wheel.

I've mentioned it several times, but you should probably read "The Meritocracy Trap."

Also, in my business consulting, I've been training small business owners to stop expecting exceptional work from their staff. These are all medical professionals who internalized working long hours and self-sacrifice as a fundamental good, and they need to be trained to not expect that of their 40K/year staff.

I remember working with one clinic owner who was so frustrated she started crying in a meeting with me. She kept saying "I just want them to care about my practice as much as I do! I want the best of the best!" To which I burst out laughing and said "are you prepared to share your profits with them? If not, that's an insane expectation."

They're a category of people who've been indoctrinated to become superordinate workers and they can't understand anything else. Yet, they're all fucking miserable, depressed, plagued with addiction problems, and health issues. So they shouldn't exactly be setting the standard.

I've rehabbed a lot of clinics by getting everyone from the top down to focus on working *less* intensely.

That is an interesting perspective and experience. I can see where the drive for “excellence” is somewhat self defeating.


NorthernIkigai

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2022, 11:39:44 AM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.

I've heard the term "contract strike" before, which is exactly what it sounds like: going "on strike" by working only your contracted hours and nothing more.

Health care workers here did this earlier this year. Fed up and tired after being constantly overworked and underpaid even before the pandemic, they announced they were going to stop doing any overtime or switching shifts.

Since the field is so crappily managed and managers used to appeal to their staff’s sense of duty (- Hey, boss, we’re really legally supposed to be 8 people doing this shift. - Yeah, sorry, I’m sure you can manage with 6, or maybe get a colleague to do a double shift?), the mandated staffing numbers during the strike sometimes ended up being higher than normal, real staffing levels (such as 7 in the above example). That didn’t stop health care managers from being quoted in media saying that staffing during the strike was dangerously low! Public opinion was firmly on the side of the health workers…

There was also talk about mass resignations, to which the government responded by suggesting trained health care workers might be forced by law to stay in their jobs. Which led to a number of them quitting from the official registry of health care workers. Good times (not).

J.R. Ewing

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2022, 12:24:18 PM »
Quiet quitter here.

Put my 10-30 hours a week in (WFH) and do just enough to stay off the shit list. More/better work is rewarded with more work.

I worked for a toxic company in 2018/2019 where I pretty much stopped working all together and still collected a salary for 6 months. Ditto in 2017 when I got promoted into a role and they fired my manager on the 3rd day and the VP above her two weeks later. I spent 8 months with no oversight and no one even knew what I was supposed to be doing.

Large corporations can be a magical place.

This reminds me I haven't seen Office Space in a while.

GuitarStv

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2022, 12:30:44 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.
Yup, the bare minimum not to get fired. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coopted by businesses to apply to workers who refuse the extraction of unpaid labour. There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

I also have tried doing this in the past and stopped because I got bored.  The idea of working less was to benefit me, but if it doesn't benefit me (because I'm bored out of my skull) then what's the point?  :P

SuperNintendo Chalmers

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2022, 01:35:51 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.
Yup, the bare minimum not to get fired. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coopted by businesses to apply to workers who refuse the extraction of unpaid labour. There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

I also have tried doing this in the past and stopped because I got bored.  The idea of working less was to benefit me, but if it doesn't benefit me (because I'm bored out of my skull) then what's the point?  :P

Plus, in many contexts, doing less work in practice means that others will have to pick up that work.  So you have boredom at the same time as feeling not so great as you watch someone else (who is going through their own shit) slog through more work. 

ixtap

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2022, 02:14:02 PM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.
Yup, the bare minimum not to get fired. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coopted by businesses to apply to workers who refuse the extraction of unpaid labour. There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

I also have tried doing this in the past and stopped because I got bored.  The idea of working less was to benefit me, but if it doesn't benefit me (because I'm bored out of my skull) then what's the point?  :P

Plus, in many contexts, doing less work in practice means that others will have to pick up that work.  So you have boredom at the same time as feeling not so great as you watch someone else (who is going through their own shit) slog through more work.

DH struggles with this even though he is officially downshifted.

rocketpj

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2022, 03:55:53 PM »
I've had a few jobs.  Now I have a union job.  I go in, I work hard for my time there.  When my day is done I turn off my phone and computer, lock them in my desk and leave.  Calls and emails will be checked when I come back next.

My job would be really, really easy to slack off at, but it is meaningful work and I like it, so I do my best.  My only supervisor is rarely on site, and they are so happy to have a site that effectively runs itself with only occasional contact to get a particular expense approved. 

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2022, 03:57:49 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.
I remember reading material from a Swedish teacher's union, and one thing they specifically said was "if you can't complete your tasks in your 40h work week, that's the school's problem, not yours."

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2022, 04:21:40 PM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

So much this.  My contract was 37.5 hours/week.  60 was normal, 70 during exams.  If we had all done what we were contracted for the system would have collapsed.  My daughter went into a job that pays well but when the day is over she goes home and has her life.  No second generation teachers here.
I remember reading material from a Swedish teacher's union, and one thing they specifically said was "if you can't complete your tasks in your 40h work week, that's the school's problem, not yours."

This. Teachers are contracted for a standard work week. If they (or any other member of the public) wants to volunteer some time to the school for free, great! There has to be room for those who are not interested in doing so, free of shame.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2022, 06:47:45 AM »
With 270 days to go I'm going quietly.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2022, 09:38:31 AM »
I've never understood why some people would be willing to put in more than their 8-hours, for no additional compensation. They call it "quiet quitting" -- I call it "work life balance" or only working the hours you're contracted to work.

If you are in education, you have no choice if you want to be effective. I'm an administrator so it is especially true, it's the nature of the job. Another reason for the teacher shortage.

Yeah, my spouse used to be a teacher.  At one point we calculated the hourly rate based on the true number of hours worked, and it was a fraction of minimum wage.

Is this hyperbole?

A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)

So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour

In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.

FWIW yes I totally did the quiet quitting before I retired/fried/changed careers etc.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2022, 09:51:17 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2022, 09:55:48 AM »
With 270 days to go I'm going quietly.

We're 10 days apart! Will you be in Citrus this winter? We'll be down there for 5 months (Tampa) and come up to your neck of the woods at least once a month for a long weekend. Maybe get together for a bike ride along the Withlacoochee trail? The families backyard borders a section of it.

Villanelle

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2022, 10:01:08 AM »
Literally doing your job is quiet quitting?

Oh, brother…

Depending on who you ask "quiet quitting" is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. I've tried this in the past but I always get bored.
Yup, the bare minimum not to get fired. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coopted by businesses to apply to workers who refuse the extraction of unpaid labour. There's a reason that work to rule is an effective industrial action - most workers go above and beyond their paid duties as a matter of course.

I also have tried doing this in the past and stopped because I got bored.  The idea of working less was to benefit me, but if it doesn't benefit me (because I'm bored out of my skull) then what's the point?  :P

Plus, in many contexts, doing less work in practice means that others will have to pick up that work.  So you have boredom at the same time as feeling not so great as you watch someone else (who is going through their own shit) slog through more work.

I had a job where there were many of us in identical positions but we were each assigned a "desk" of work.  I was in university grant administration, and essentially one person might cover the Electrical and Mechanical Engineering grants and projects, and another the English Department, etc.  They said they started new employees with a smaller list of projects until they learned the job and then would increase, taking work away from one of the very busy admins.  After several months, I was clearly proficient and while I didn't know everything, I could do all the common things.  I repeatedly requested to have more added to my workload.  And I was told that yes, they'd look at the workloads and find something to add.  (So it wasn't that they didn't think I was ready, or they'd have told me that).  Now, I don't think any of the admins were truly overworked, but some definitely had pretty full days.  But they never got around to giving me more.  Eventually, I stopped asking because I felt like when I did, they were defensive or felt like I was telling them (the supervisors) how to do their jobs.  Truly, all I ever did was say, "I've got a lot of free time had definitely have the capacity to handle more, so if there are departments or projects to transfer to me, I'd love to have them", but after the first few times, their reaction was as though I was saying they were doing something wrong.  So I STFU, because that seemed to be what they wanted me to do.

I  was required to be at my desk 40 hours a week.  I think most weeks I probably do 20 hours or less of actual work. 

And it was terrible.  If I'd been able to come and go as I pleased, great.  But since I had set work hours, it was awful.  I played on the internet somewhat, but was worried about getting caught in the occasional audit they did where a couple people would get the "we noticed you spent an average of X hours a day on Random Sites" conversation with HR.  In a cube farm, I couldn't pull out a book or anything obvious, so it was painful to fill the time.  I frequently went for walks, since time away from desk could be explained as, "walking over the the engineering building to see Prof X."  If I walked the campus for an extra half an hour beyond that meeting, so be it. 

Anyway, for me having a half-time job in full time hours was awful.  Being forced to sit and waste time was far worse than being busy. 

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2022, 11:01:33 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?

PDXTabs

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2022, 11:06:18 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?

Why would you conflate age and seniority? My high school science teacher was in his 40s on his first day at work (after first working 20 years in a different career).

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2022, 11:26:33 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?
The answer to your question is found in the first sentence from Jon Bon I quoted.

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2022, 11:34:45 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?
The answer to your question is found in the first sentence from Jon Bon I quoted.

The first sentence from Jon Bon that you quoted is:
Quote
Is this hyperbole?

Which is itself a question.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Jon Bon

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2022, 11:37:09 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?
The answer to your question is found in the first sentence from Jon Bon I quoted.

Yeah I guess my point was that teachers hardly have a monopoly on working way more then 40 and thus having a crappy "hourly" rate. Whether I use starting or ending salary is irrelevant. I agree making <7.25 an hour is pretty bad, making <12.50 an hour is slightly less bad......

Perhaps it is slightly worse for teachers as the first few years getting their feet wet they don't have their systems in place so they are putting in more hours while starting at the bottom of the pay scale.

I also worked 50-60 hours for ~65k, thus why I don't do that job anymore!



« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 11:43:54 AM by Jon Bon »

Jon Bon

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2022, 11:52:02 AM »
Is this hyperbole?
A quick google search shows 65k per year as the average teacher salary. So only working 40 hours 50 weeks a year (but teachers work closer to 45 weeks right?)
So 65,000/50/40 = $32.50 an hour
In order to get below the federal minimum wage of 7.25 an hour teacher making 65k a year would need to work around 180 hours every week. Perhaps this was a part time gig working full time hours? I mean I get that teachers likely do put in a bunch of hours pretty regularly, but don't a ton of us work >40 hours on the regular? However we are paid on an assumption of 40 hours a week. Sorry for the thread hijack, that math just jumped out at me.
You shouldn't use the average teacher salary, you should use the starting teacher salary. In Colorado (location listed for SuperNintendo), that's about $35,000 [1]. Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is higher than the federal minimum. [2]. The current minimum for Colorado is $12.56/hr, so a new teacher would need to work 2786 hours a year to make less than minimum wage. Working 60 hours a week for 47 weeks a year could get you to about that number.
Why would you use the starting salary when the average teacher age is over 40 years in all 50 states?

Why would you conflate age and seniority? My high school science teacher was in his 40s on his first day at work (after first working 20 years in a different career).

Sure there are exceptions, but I would imagine there is a pretty strong correlation between age and number of years of experience.

Bateaux

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2022, 12:09:13 PM »
[quote author=2Birds1Stone link=topic=128235.msg3048659#msg3048659 date=166075174

We're 10 days apart! Will you be in Citrus this winter? We'll be down there for 5 months (Tampa) and come up to your neck of the woods at least once a month for a long weekend. Maybe get together for a bike ride along the Withlacoochee trail? The families backyard borders a section of it.


A bike ride would be awesome!!!

 I'm sure we'll spend some time there.  Maybe around the middle of February.  Haven't made any plans yet.  Just left there Sunday.  Spent a day at Clearwater Beach and another at Busch Gardens.

Let's keep in touch and good luck with FIRE!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 12:11:02 PM by Bateaux »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2022, 12:39:17 PM »
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
When determining if something is an exaggerated statement or claim not meant to be taken literally, you should start your evaluation from a position favorable to the statement being true while still being plausible.

In this case, SuperNintendo stated their spouse was making less than minimum wage as a teacher. Since there are a good number of teachers just starting out, it is reasonable to use the starting salary as the basis for evaluation before calling out SuperNintendo's statement as bullshit.

GuitarStv

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2022, 12:48:35 PM »
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
When determining if something is an exaggerated statement or claim not meant to be taken literally, you should start your evaluation from a position favorable to the statement being true while still being plausible.

In this case, SuperNintendo stated their spouse was making less than minimum wage as a teacher. Since there are a good number of teachers just starting out, it is reasonable to use the starting salary as the basis for evaluation before calling out SuperNintendo's statement as bullshit.

Many schools (at least around here) operate on a last one hired / first one fired hiring policy . . . so it's possible that new teachers feel more need to put in extra, unpaid hours.  My parents both worked as teachers, and 60 hr weeks seemed to be the norm for each of them when you counted in class time, extra curricular stuff, and work that was done at home.

Vashy

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Re: New Work Trend - Quiet Quitting
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2022, 01:11:31 PM »
I emotionally quit years before I left (was downsized) - and I remember the exact day it happened. Up to that point I was going above and beyond, working over time on a f*cked-up schedule with inefficient systems under a micromanaging boss. I specially asked for a qualification (which is now industry standard) I was promised during the interview (and for which my employer needed to endorse me - there's no other way to even sign up for the course). My boss said: "If  the company did that, you could leave, so we won't."

I felt that no longer caring was an appropriate response to having my further progression and self-improvement willfully and deliberately sabotaged by my employer. Ultimate, if you don't care about me, I sure don't care about you. Loyalty is earned.