MMM therapy:Philosophical problems about work, home and life (somewhat rambling)

[shelivesthedream]

I've tried to categorise these ramblings a bit below, but the main theme is just not really being sure about what I'm doing with my life. I'd appreciate any thoughts you can raise from the tangled mess below. I'd be equally happy with questions and answers!

Background
I'm 25. I work as a freelance creative doing self-contained team projects. I have a degree in it and am doing OK with my career. I've only been doing it for a little under two years, so I guess I'm still an emerging creative. My husband is training for a super-steady job and his training is being paid for by his future employer. The pay will never be great but it's a job for life and he loves what he does/will do. He'll be training until about May 2017. Small flat in a walkable mid-sized town in the south of England.

Work
For someone working regularly in my creative field, I just don't think I'm very driven. I generally enjoy the work I do, and I definitely enjoy the working patterns of a freelancer (own schedule, own priorities, own responsibility but so little bullshit from bosses/colleagues). But when I look around at the people  graduated with, they are all really hustling to get on, really ambitious to work for top-tier organisations... I mean, I'd love to work for one if the opportunity arose but I just don't have the drive to get on my bike and seek it out. I think I am somewhat falling into the trap of thinking that your job *has* to be some major passion for you, but I do feel like it ought to be for creatives. Otherwise why bother accepting the shitty pay? I feel like I've been handed some huge privilege (regular work in my field) and I'm not even appreciating it.

I also feel a bit like a fraud/imposter. I do feel a bit like I'm just waiting to be found out as not being very creative or good at my job, and that I don't want to put my head above the parapet in case someone notices. But again, while I recognise that I am sort of being drawn into "magical thinking" about creativity, I still feel like that.

Finances
We have about three and a half years of expenses saved. We also have about £30k in student loans between us but they're UK student loans and we might never earn enough to pay back any significant amount. Basically the deal is that we spend my husband's stipend and save anything I earn. Last year this went well and we saved about 60% of our HHI. This year it's not looking so good - we'll barely clear 10% unless something huge pops up for me. I feel very anxious about not saving. I definitely have a scarcity mentality about money. I don't even know what I'm afraid of. The stock market tanks - so we wait for it to go back up again. One of us can't work - we have three years of savings to figure it out. It's just this weird fear about some giant hand in the sky coming down and taking it all away from us.


I'm also taking driving lessons and they are just SO expensive. It's eating up every spare penny of our extra money and then some. I have a test booked for summer but might have to dip into our savings to pay for lessons til then, which TOTALLY freaks me out. If we did that I don't think I would be able to sleep until we had paid back in every penny and then some. And I don't even know if I'll pass that test, so I might need yet more lessons.

Staying at Home
I was super duper busy in autumn with work, but this year has been pretty quiet so far, so I've spent a lot of time at home. It's kind of nice. I've finally managed to get somewhat on top of the cleaning and laundry, and I've been enjoying cooking some new things. I'm slightly tempted to just slide into being a stay-at-home spouse. It seems easy. My husband says he's happy with whatever I want as long as we're financially secure enough to not need my income. (We are at the moment.) But I don't know... It's kind of nice as a breather but it doesn't seem like it would solve my problem of not feeling purposeful and valuable. I would also have HUGE feminist guilt about it. It's one of those things where I would never judge another woman for doing X, but I judge myself massively for it. I have all this expensive education (private school, degree, postgrad) and I'm doing shit all with it. Even though I never asked for private school (parents chose it when I was five) and I didn't really want to go to university (parents told me I had to, paid for it all). The only bit I did for myself and by myself was the postgrad in my current field, and I feel like if I went back to my college they'd be really disappointed in how I'm doing at work right now. I've always been one of those people tipped as "most likely to succeed" but no one ever asked me what I wanted for myself. So now I'm 25 and I just don't know. My husband and I have talked about having children in the next few years but I just worry that my life as an independent being would be over then. I would want to care for my children and hopefully homeschool them, but I don't want to not have had the opportunity to live a little first. I will never again have the freedom that I do now, and I don't even know what to do with it.

Comparing
So I compare myself to other people. I compare myself to the people I graduated with. I compare myself to my friends. I compare myself to my parents. And I know it's stupid and you can't compare apples to oranges and you never even know the full orange anyway, but I still do. And I worry about it. Not pathologically, but just mild fretting. Maybe it's the shitty weather but it's been particularly bad this past week.

Purpose
I think I am lacking purpose in my life, but I don't know where to find one. I also don't really have any close friends to confide in at the moment. I can talk to my husband but he's just so fucking supportive and nice all the time. I need a bit of a wall to bounce off. Not facepunches exactly, but maybe a stern talking to. I am just a very introverted private person, and I constantly worry about others judging me. I think this does stem from my childhood - my mother in particular was very judgemental and not very emotionally connected (see reddit/raisedbynarcissists for an extreme idea). I just don't really know how to have friends. Like, what do you do with them?

Anyway, I don't know if anyone else has ever been in this situation, and what you did. Or if an outside eye could see more clearly. Or if you think I should just man the fuck up and stop wanting to be so existentially satisfied and self-actualised when millions of people are starving.

[Parizade]

Oh hon', wish I could send you a hug through the screen!

I too was raised by a narcissist and I think everything you've posted relates back to that. Have you read "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" by Dr Karyl McBride?

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Ever-Good-Enough-Narcissistic/dp/1439129436

I keep it on my bed so it's handy to reread any time. I was shocked to learn how much of what I thought was my personality was actually a dysfunctional adaptation to my mother's narcissism. I've been working on recovery for the past 7 years and I've come a long way but it's never really complete. I just know I'll keep getting better so I keep working at it.

You are so fortunate to have found a supporting partner, and you are fortunate to have figured out the issue so young.

[Mr Dumpster Stache]

I am just a very introverted private person, and I constantly worry about others judging me.

I guess i'm a dumb rednek, but I thought this was all British people. :D

[Reader]

Background
I'm 25.

Work
I also feel a bit like a fraud/imposter. I do feel a bit like I'm just waiting to be found out as not being very creative or good at my job, and that I don't want to put my head above the parapet in case someone notices. But again, while I recognise that I am sort of being drawn into "magical thinking" about creativity, I still feel like that.

Finances
We have about three and a half years of expenses saved... I definitely have a scarcity mentality about money... It's just this weird fear about some giant hand in the sky coming down and taking it all away from us.

I'm also taking driving lessons and they are just SO expensive.

Staying at Home
So now I'm 25 and I just don't know. My husband and I have talked about having children in the next few years but I just worry that my life as an independent being would be over then.

Comparing
So I compare myself to other people. I compare myself to the people I graduated with. I compare myself to my friends. I compare myself to my parents. And I know it's stupid and you can't compare apples to oranges and you never even know the full orange anyway, but I still do. And I worry about it. Not pathologically, but just mild fretting. Maybe it's the shitty weather but it's been particularly bad this past week.

Purpose
I think I am lacking purpose in my life, but I don't know where to find one. I also don't really have any close friends to confide in at the moment. ... I just don't really know how to have friends. Like, what do you do with them?

hiya from a "expected to be high achieving" fellow introvert. i was always told in school that i would be xxx , yyy by friends and family. went to a really competitive school and univ and more great things were expected. so yes, i had a serious case of the imposter syndrome then wondering when it would end. almost had a breakdown when i did not get a First, but i recovered, life moved on and more great opportunities came up in life which gave me a chance to do well in working life. some of the other friends whom i "benchmarked" myself with did "better" with great sounding titles and salaries, and some did "worse" earning less and progressing slower than i did. as i got older and saw friends do well from all sorts of starting points, i realised that there are many ways to "make it". and yes, comparison is really kind of pointless with people wanting different things in life.

i think you're really young at 25 and good job to be thinking about this at the start of your working/family life. one of my creative friends eschewed the typical high paying job in ad-land and picked jobs that allowed him to focus more on his own pottery making. he still makes way more than i do with less hours. you did not mention which area of creative work you're in but just use your feelings as a "imposter" to push yourself to work harder and better. it will become real over time.

ditto about family (and being really young). even if you had children at 28, they will be independent by the time you hit 50. so there's some good years of me time ahead with your husband if you choose to decide later.

friends take time to make. say yes more often to opportunities to get together or to know people. maybe one of your existing friends can be a close friend? it has turned out that way for me but we became close only in the last 5 years out of the 25 years we knew one another.

[matchewed]

Do not seek purpose and value from that which is around you. People, your job, your fellow grads, your friends...etc. they are not purpose nor your value. That has to come from within. As long as you keep looking around with an external locus of control (the worry that something is going to take it all away from you is a symptom of that) you will continue to feel out of control and lack purpose.

There will be good savings years and bad savings years, there will be years where your job was satisfying and years where it may not be (you actually get a say in this). The overarching theme will be that you were there for it. So work on how you view these things rather than worry about these things.

Change your perspective.

[Lovelife]

I've never posted before and only found this blog/forum in like Dec I think so I have nothing to say about money, but I can chime in here on other things.

First, I'm super into personality stuff. I'm a fellow introvert (Myers Briggs INFP) and aspiring creative that also feels that I want to have meaning and some purpose in my career. Odd thing maybe on a forum specifically about retiring, but it's who I am and I'm more interested in the FI part for now anyways.

Idk what your personality type is, but the group I'm in (NF) is often thinking about the existential things. I don't think you have to give that up or "just get over it". I think it sounds like you've been doing that (or trying to) for a lot of your life and it's only making you miserable. Maybe look into sitting down and doing the "hard" work of writing out what your actual values are in life. Maybe they do involve you being ambitious, but also maybe they just involve you providing more value to people (in whatever way is important to you). It sounds like you know exactly what your parents and societies values are, but you don't know what yours are. So, take a weekend or however long it takes and figure them out. Then decide what small things you can do in your life that will move you in that direction. If you are following your values in your day to day life you will most likely feel more meaning and purpose in it as well. You don't need to follow the default values of your parents or society you come from. You are allowed to choose your own. :)

As for feeling like an impostor. This is an actual thing and it's called impostor syndrome and the creative field is the one hit heaviest by it. Though it is often a thing that hits people in many other fields as well. This is a fun and funny article about it that I read recently.

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2016/02/04/emmie-mears-hi-hello-were-here-to-revoke-your-artist-card/

As for friends. That can definitely be harder as an introvert especially when you're insecure/shy/perfectionist. It's also a skill that can be learned. People don't often think of it like that, but it is. If you're super horrible at it then I'd recommend a great book by Tynan http://www.amazon.com/Superhuman-Social-Skills-Likeable-Building-ebook/dp/B015QA1250/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 . Also, just doing the scary things like being more friendly and going out with work people. Or doing a hobby where you can meet people... which can be anything really as long as it's in a group. You could even go to classes at the gym and meet people. Or yoga. Or maybe you always wanted to learn glass blowing or pottery making. Or maybe outside things like a running club or hiking or something. Whatever you've wanted to try, but have put off go take a class or join a group. And then even if you don't meet anyone you will have done something fun that you've always wanted to. It's a win-win. :)

[steveo]

I can relate. I just don't really give a shit about work. I love doing jiu-jitsu, I love reading and playing chess and maybe even some games. I turn up to work regularly just to earn money to pay for our life (wife and 3 kids).

I don't think you are miserable. I think you are having problems embracing being lazy in ways that society judges. Society seems to push people to be hard working whereas some of us just aren't. I can do a tonne of stuff that I like to do and I can work hard at work when the work has to be done. As soon as I get the chance to take it easy though I take it easy.

I should add that my post is all really about me because if we are honest it's impossible to know you via your quick post so you have to see what you feel makes sense to you.

[Frankies Girl]

I just FIREd from a high pressure, super creative position (graphic designer/illustrator) last year.

I spent about 20 years in the industry working my ass off to move up. I started out at a very small ad agency, went to a larger city wide publication, freelancing in my free time. Did this for years. Went freelance only for about a year, and then landed the job I just left at a large worldwide publisher and worked there for over a decade.

At first, I was fine with the pressure because it was what you were supposed to do - and I felt some sort of weird pride in having zero work/life balance; my job was my life. I still enjoyed being creative as well.

And then after several years, the pressure and late nights and never ending hard deadlines started getting to me. And I realized that I'd stopped creating beautiful things in my spare time. I could literally sit down in front of a blank canvas or sketchbook and had nothing in my brain to put on that surface; it was all used up at work. That killed me. It was then I realized that my job had usurped all of my time, my energy and saddest of all, my creativity.

Do not fall into that trap of feeling like you must be pursuing the next big job or advancing up the ladder. In the creative field, many of us suffer burnout so severe, it changes how we can create our own art/vision. I miss the mad jumble of images that I could picture clear as day in my mind and the aching need to put paintbrush or pencil to paper. I have hopes that I'll get it back someday, and honestly I regret working so long at the place that used me up. My own fault however, as I traded money and benefits for my creativity, but it cost me dearly.

If I had the opportunity back then - the one you currently have - to stay home and putter around the house and make things nicer overall for myself and family, while still able to do some freelance on the side whenever a project interested me... I'd take that in a heartbeat.

You have a wonderful chance to do it all - enjoy your free time, work on projects that you can choose to work on, improve your home life, create a super environment for yourself and your husband and eventually your children if you choose to have some. And even if this is not exactly what you thought you'd like doing, take some time and just be yourself in this environment. Get a feel for what you like or don't like about it, and make an informed decision based off of only your (and to a lesser extent the husband's) opinions on how this works for you. Give yourself permission to just drift for a bit to see what you might end up drifting towards or away from. Sounds like you've been pushed and prodded your entire life and had to listen to everyone else; take the time now and just listen to yourself and your own voice, which also means telling that cranky dialogue that starts up regarding "wasting your degree" or being an imposter or other such bullshit to STFU since that is NOT your voice; it's the script your parents installed in your head!

You are not wasting your degree. You got one, you've used it some and if you never decide to continue after a certain point? Those years in school were more than just a piece of paper or a job. They were a learning and growth experience and rite of passage into adulthood. Education is never wasted if you learned and grew from it, whether you use the actual degree or not.

This is the definition of being a feminist: you are a woman choosing to do seek out what makes you happy and fulfilled. It is not a cop-out or a step backwards to stay home and work on things if you want to do so. You can always do more freelance if you decide to do so - it is all about choice.

[2Cent]

A lot of creatives feel they need to be original, and measure themselves against the opinions of their peers and art experts. But the truth is that the audience is mostly not looking for something original and "artsy" that conveys a deep truth. They just want something nice.

So don't feel like you're an impostor if you're just doing art as a job that you like and not your life calling. Most of your audience is on that same level.

[asauer]

So sorry you're struggling with this- I went through something pretty similar in my mid-twenties too.  You've gotten some good advice here and I will +1 for the "Good Enough" book- I was raised by a narcissist and that book changed my life (no that's not an exaggeration).

Additionally, one of the things you mention is possibly having children- it seems you're on the fence about this.  I just want to put in that you don't have to have kids.  It's not for everyone and if you don't your life will be perfectly fine.  Don't start a family just because it's what you're 'supposed' to do.  I do have kids but waited until 30 to have them- when we were absolutely sure.

Good luck!  Just the fact that you're thinking about these things means that you're going to be fine!

[J Boogie]

But the truth is that the audience is mostly not looking for something original and "artsy" that conveys a deep truth. They just want something nice.

Yeah, I think that's often the case. 

To go a little deeper, I think the aesthetic (in this case, "something nice") is informed by the ethic (the deep truth).

For instance, consider the Shaker furniture philosophy:

"Don't make something unless it is both necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful"

You can see this philosophy in Shaker designs, it has simple beauty to it.

From my experience, there's a good chance they'll appreciate inspired design when they see it.  However the same people will often appreciate very uninspired design too, with seemingly no ability or interest in differentiating between the two.   Well who am I to judge, I eat organic avocados but I don't hesitate to have 3 office donuts after lunch if they're available.

[acroy]

Sounds like you have some heavy thinking to do to find peace.

-   What are your core values
-   What are your key strengths and weaknesses
-   What circumstances/previous choices are you bound by (i.e. education, marriage, etc)
-   Given above, what is your correct ‘station in life’ / ‘calling’ / ‘vocation’  / choose your own term

Sounds easy…. Very difficult to execute.
(First world problems…. The rest of the world is just trying not to starve)
Truly peaceful, happy people know who they are, what they are doing, and why.
I wish you luck

[gt7152b]

Regarding your feelings of being an impostor: Fake it til you make it. You need to visualize yourself as the creative person you want to be and make every day decisions and steps towards becoming that even if you aren't 100% there yet. The question is do you really WANT to be that person.

That brings me to your work not being fulfilling: You have to find meaningful work and a cause to live for. Don't work in some field because your parents, peers, or society expects you to. You have to do it for yourself and the causes that you find important.

On comparing yourself to others: "Comparison is the thief of joy." - Theodore Roosevelt. Who cares what anyone else is doing? If being a stay at home Mom or some other profession is your purpose and fulfills you then why be miserable running in the opposite direction? You don't owe anything to anyone else including your parents. They spent the money on that education so they could live vicariously through you. I'm sure they had good intentions but it sounds like they took healthy encouragement a little too far.

[Ricky]

Are we twins? Besides a few discrepancies like your emotionally disconnected mother, I feel like I could of wrote this. I'm 25 and think like this from time to time (well all the time - but I've done better recently).

There's two very conflicting forces acting within/on us. The need to be alone (but don't want to be lonely) and the need to "prove" oneself (but don't care ultimately). It's such a catch 22 when you're extremely introverted and you just get caught up doing your own routine and are so satisfied with it that you can't imagine how another person would fit into it (sans significant other).

I definitely understand your desire to make more money yet not be subjected to the rat race and doing something you don't really like/believe in. Even if being creative makes you feel a little superficial at times, It's still better than working for a company that only cares about material items and numbers. I got out of the meaningless work and am also finding it hard to become motivated to do anything to make a ton of money since that requires working really hard and I know ultimately I won't need all the money that I get if I work really hard and endure the extra stress. It's a great problem to have, don't get me wrong, but it does take its toll mentally at times.

Maybe this will help: the feeling will never go away until you let it. It doesn't matter how much prestige or money you gain in your lifetime, it will never be enough until you let it. Until you can mentally accept "this is enough, this is me, you'll forever be haunted by the pressures of others and society. Understand that most people don't realize that they only need a very little amount to be happy and they're only "busting their ass" because everyone else around them is - all fueled by consumerism and social norms.

I recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1MqJPHxy6g (Alain de Botton: Status Anxiety)

I mean, I'd love to work for one if the opportunity arose but I just don't have the drive to get on my bike and seek it out.

That's the thing. Society over-values high-paying jobs since everyone thinks lots of money is the secret to happiness - or it's just plain necessary, when it isn't. Too many people chasing too few jobs = competitiveness. A high-paying "great" job is never going to fall into your lap unless you muster up the motivation to get it. Knowing people like us, that's unlikely to ever happen.

It's just this weird fear about some giant hand in the sky coming down and taking it all away from us.

I think that's a pretty normal feeling for anyone - hence the "one more year" syndrome. It could be anxiety as well. I've never seen it documented or claimed, but I have a hunch that heavy-leaning introverts are much more anxious than extroverts.

Not facepunches exactly, but maybe a stern talking to.

Again, this is society speaking, not you. Why do you think you need a stern talking to? To feel better?  You have the power to feel better right now.

Or if you think I should just man the fuck up and stop wanting to be so existentially satisfied and self-actualised when millions of people are starving

Yeah, pretty much! It's good to stay humble and remind yourself of this. It's not even the starvation statistic that rattles me, it's that 80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day. 80%!

[StetsTerhune]

Just wanted to give a few small encouragements. A. Most of what you're feeling is the most natural thing in the world when you're 25. I certainly felt very unsettled and had very little idea what I wanted or who I was at that point. B. It sounds like you're in a very secure place financially and have the ability to experiment with things quite a bit. Maybe that means pushing the stay-at-home thing. Maybe that means looking for a different kind of job to try out. Maybe that means seeing if you can "be ambitious" for a while. You're in a place where you can experiment with your life a bit, do it.

I've done a huge amount of experimentation with my life, and I have some reasonable recipes for keeping myself happy and satisfied. It's all about a balance of things that keep my mind in a good place. I truly believe I am the luckiest person on earth, and have, objectively, an amazing life. All that said, "existentially satisfied" is something I will never be. Life is pointless. To me, there's simply no escaping that fact. There's living with it, there's lots of joy that can be had in this world. Lots.

Sorry, your post really spoke to me, and I'm probably making too many assumptions about you here, but... for me at least there's absolutely no gain in thinking about the purpose or why's of life. I've spent way too much time down that path, it doesn't go anywhere. Be happy, you deserve that.

[The_path_less_taken]

Having read---and enjoyed---many of your previous posts, I guess I'm most astonished that you are only 25!

I could feel the tension in your post though: but so much of it was stuff that truly, I swear on my mother's grave is not important, like comparing yourself against some strangers. Or the corporate ladder. Or wanting to make more money right this second. Or being afraid to 'coast' for a while as a stay at home spouse.

I don't care HOW creative you are, you actually need to recharge that battery. A walk by the sea. A day at the Tate. A day on the couch with hot chocolate and a great novel....

Think of it like horse racing. I own an Arabian mare. With the right training, she could easily do the Tevis Cup race or another 100 miles cross country race. The Tevis cup is done through very rough mountains...it starts at the base of Squaw Valley Ski resort.

In England steeplechase horses can jump insane heights. But not for 100 miles.

The Kentucky Derby is not exactly a sprint race....horses train their entire lives for it. But there are quarter mile racetracks in California where the horse sprints down a track you or I could race.

And.....it's ALL horse racing! Each has a slightly different path, a different way, a different form...

You WILL find yours.

But expecting to have your entire life dialed in by 25 is like wanting to win the lottery every single week: aiming a bit high. If for no other reason than you will find that your priorities and even some of your core philosophy will change throughout life.

Bottom line: enjoy the ride. Try something, if you don't like it....try something else.

[LadyStache in Baja]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Shoot for an 80% life.  I think a fulfilled life comes from being good enough at all the aspects of life (friends, family, career, solitude, hobbies etc etc).  If you try too hard in any one aspect, you'll hurt the others, and therefore hurt your life. 

To use a metaphor, in highschool I was an all A-student.  That is great, that is good.  But by being perfect academically, I missed out on other experiences. 

Life is like that!  Just be good enough and try to enjoy it.  Try not to overthink it!

[shelivesthedream]

Wow. I really want to thank all of you. A lot. (Insert weird emotional words here.) And to reply to you each individually.

One thing which has come up generally is that I am “only” 25. Yes, but I am an old 25! I’m a married, settled-down, thinks-like-a-pensioner 25. I’m sensible. I’m “sorted”. I don’t act on impulse. I wear a shirt most days because I like it. I come across, in person and in print, as much older than I am. People never guess my age right (unless they have clues like when I graduated). And while I would love to go back to my fifteen-year-old-self and say “Don’t worry, you’re only fifteen” I know I sure as hell wouldn’t have made myself feel any better then for knowing that. Having a broken leg is a “normal” thing but it doesn’t make it hurt less.

Y’all have given me so much to think about, though, thank you. I always think that you can’t expect to solve a problem until you know what the problem is, and I feel like things are starting to emerge from the mud.

Parizade: I have so much weird history with my mother. I just don’t know if she’s a narcissist or not (like, I kind of think that maybe she does really love me and is just unable to express it) as I just can’t put my finger on anything she has ever said or done, and she doesn’t tick so many of the narcissist boxes, but there’s something about the way ACONs feel that just completely chimes with how I feel about my childhood. Some part of me would love some validation about her potential narcissism but I know it wouldn’t make me feel any better.

So I’ve read a lot of stuff about how to move on as an ACON in the past year or two and it’s really helpful, whether my mother is like that or not. Thank you for the book recommendation. It looks like just what I need, though I might need to work round to reading it. I really don’t feel like I have anything figured out, though! It’s like getting to the bottom of a hole, thinking you’ve found the way out, opening a trapdoor, and finding that there’s an even bigger hole underneath!

Mr Dumpster Stache: Believe me, there are extraverted Brits! Have you never heard of The Only Way is Essex?

Reader: I had a huge wobble when I got to university and felt like I had done everything I was supposed to and got to “the end” only to find out it wasn’t the end any more, and now there was suddenly this terrifying option of “what do I want?” I think I just keep having aftershocks from that wobble – it’s like a caged animal having the door opened onto a great big amazing world but wanting to stay in the cage because it feels safe there.

I know I’m young to be worrying so much about having children but I really don’t want to be an old parent. I have a personal mental deadline of 30 to either start trying or decide on never. This is partially a biology thing and partially because my parents had me quite old and it just sucks.

matchewed: Change your perspective. I am a very black and white person. I need to see the grey sometimes too. Thanks for reminding me.

DocMcStuffins: I think that part of the problem is that when you’re 19 it’s easy to say “Oh yeah, it’s my parents’ fault” but a few years down the line it starts to be your own fault and I think I’m getting to that “Oh fuck… personal responsibility…” stage and not knowing what to do with it. It’s like having too many sweets and not knowing which one to eat first so not eating any.

Lovelife: Every time I sit down and try and think about my values or priorities or what I want, I just end up thinking “I don’t know!” I test repeatedly as an INTJ, and I value MBTI types as a descriptor and validator of my preferences. While I am very decisive and efficient when faced with a particular task, when there isn’t anything to be “done” I tend to get stuck in analysis paralysis. I worry about committing to something emotional/personal/internal in case I make the wrong decision and can’t take it back – something I never have a problem with if it’s external.

I have read about Impostor Syndrome a lot, but knowing what it is only takes the edge off it, it doesn’t make it go away!

steveo: You’re right. I’m not miserable. I have been miserable – I know what it’s like and this is not it. I also think you’re right that it is partially to do with society. I read a lot of history and I yearn for earlier periods where the expectations were just totally different. A nice upper-middle class Victorian woman who could just sit around and do handicrafts and good works until she got married. Or a medieval tenant farmer who was sorted as long as he went to church on Sunday and managed to harvest just enough wheat.

Frankies Girl: I see creativity used as an excuse for so many things. For being an asshole. For being crap with money or time. For being a workaholic. It jades me, I think, to see that people think that being “creative” somehow excuses them from being a decent, functional human being. You are absolutely right that it is someone else’s voice telling me off for not being [insert everything here] enough – but I just don’t know what my own voice is, so I haven’t got a voice to talk back with.

2Cent & J Welterweight: A lot of my problem with creative impostorship is that I look at the stuff people say about art and just think it’s bullshit. You can’t measure goodness. People look at a painting and see completely opposing things. There’s no way you can tell one of the that they are right and one that they are wrong. So I feel the need to be all artsy fartsy too, because everyone else is.

asauer: I was very anti-children until a few years ago. I think mainly because I didn’t want them to have the childhood that I had. Like bringing something into the world just to make it suffer. But I think I’m coming to realise that there really is another option, and that maybe I could give them an emotionally fulfilling childhood. There’s just so much baggage. And I worry about losing myself in them, which I think is why I think I need to figure out who I am first, so that I have something definite to hang onto through years of babbling babies and screaming toddlers.

“Just the fact that you're thinking about these things means that you're going to be fine!” – I really struggle with stuff like this! It feels equivalent to: “Don’t worry that you’re getting every single question wrong and have no idea why! Just the fact that you’re doing maths problems means you’ll pass the exam!”

Basenji: You know, I wish so often that I could go back to my younger self and tell her that it’ll all be fine and not to worry so much. It’s hard to do that when you don’t know the ending, though.

acroy: I just don’t know.

gt7152b: I just don’t know if I do want to be that person. Or, if I want to be that person more than I want other stuff like ten hours sleep a night or a clean kitchen or money in the bank.

Ricky: ” the need to "prove" oneself (but don't care ultimately)” Yes, this. This is how I feel. I desperately need to prove my worth to other people even though I simultaneously couldn’t give a crap about it. I care not because I care but because I think other people care (worried about letting people down?) even though I know they don’t really. If I cared too I would be ambitious enough to make it happen. If I didn’t think “they” cared either I could just bumble along my merry way (though what that way is I don’t know).

I do try to be accepting of “me” but I don’t know what “me” is. I am getting better at not judging myself for things that I wouldn’t judge other people for (would I care if my friend hadn’t hoovered before I went round? Not at all, so I don’t need to tie myself up in knots about hoovering my own house – stupid example because I am not some crazy house perfectionist but you know what I mean)

I don’t think I am excessively anxious most of the time but I am a very internal “thinking” person. I just think think think. And from time to time that gets a bit much.

[people starving] “Yeah, pretty much!”: This did make me laugh! I do need to remind myself sometimes that not everything has to be difficult. It’s OK for life to be easy. To not be challenged. To not be “achieving”.

StetsTerhune: I am a huge thinker. I love nothing more than thinking. Think think think. I do get very blinkered by it sometimes, though. Maybe it’s being cooped up over winter or something. I don’t know. I often think on a multi-lifetime timescale. Like, if I write a letter I’ll think about what my grandchildren would think if they read it – not in a judgey way, just if they’d find it interesting and what stuff would seem really dated. Or I’ll throw something in the bin instead of the recycling because I can’t be bothered to rinse it and I’ll think about it being found by an archaeologist in landfill in a few hundred years. I post on this forum and think about whether it will be here in ten years and the shape of the internet over my future lifetime. I read a lot of history of a social/daily-life (rather than kings and battles type), so I often think about people’s everyday lives a hundred or two hundred years ago. I struggle, though, with the day to day.

The_path_less_taken: I’m curious – how old did you think I was? I almost always come across as older than I am – in print and in person! I’m both surprised and glad that you favourably recall some of my previous posts! Thank you!

It’s kind of a problem, though, because when people say “You’re only 25, don’t worry about it!” I just don’t feel like I have the mind or interior structure that people imagine a 25-year-old to have. I was just born old and I’m waiting for my body to catch up. I had to give my age for a form recently and my friend/colleague who is in her early 30s was shocked at how “young” I am. She mentally classed me as the same age as her. But I’ve done a lot of life early. I started a pension at 18, met my now-husband at 19 and settled down with him shortly afterwards, got married a few years ago. I don’t drink, I don’t go out to clubs or whatever in the evenings, I don’t go on “crazy” holidays, or buy the latest clothes or gadgets… an early night and a book are excitement enough for me! So my mind is about 55, my “life stage” is about 35, but everything else is only 25.

[Bertram]

I've tried to categorise these ramblings a bit below, but the main theme is just not really being sure about what I'm doing with my life. I'd appreciate any thoughts you can raise from the tangled mess below.

"Oh, you are unsure about what you're doing with your life? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar." ;)

Some all around good answers here already, so I'll keep it short: Don't overthink it, don't fall for the trap of "big design up front", keep your mind open, try little changes and listen to yourself and how you react. Probably the most important thing you'll learn is listening to yourself. How do you feel about these changes? how does your body react? How about your feelings? your thoughts? First it's really difficult to tune in, because of all the noise of all the external stuff (expectations of loved ones, of society, of well meaning people giving advice etc.), but as life goes on you find out what works for you and what doesn't. Once you arrive at a process to differentiate between things that "do you good" and things that don't, you'll keep improving - and that's all that matters. It's not about having it all figured out and arriving there (wherever there is), it's about finding out when things make you less happy and changing it up until it gets better again. Life is not static anyway, so a recipe that works today will not work until life is over. Yeah there is some common attributes, you see "balance" popping up quite a bit, but don't follow it, because it works for other people, only to see if it works for you.

I think I am lacking purpose in my life, but I don't know where to find one. I also don't really have any close friends to confide in at the moment.

Lacking purpose? It looks like you have a pretty good plan and it looks like you are making progress. It sounds like you are looking for validation, but that's really just another way of asking whether you are conforming to their expectations - don't. You only got one life and the important thing is you're following your own. I think you're only struggling to tune out what's been impressed upon you by others, which I think is pretty normal for that age. It gets better when you figure out to better listen to yourself.

As for not having close friends. There are probably people in your environment that would fill that roll, if you opened up to them. The more complex your worldview/life philosophy and the more different aspects there are to your personality, the less likely it is that  a single person will "get" you completely, and that's fine. Share that with people which they understand, and share the other stuff with other people. Close friends are the people that stick with you over the years/decades even though they only "get" 25% of you and they just accept the rest without getting it. Only simple people or people that conform with broad trends are lucky enough to find perfect counterparts.

I just don't really know how to have friends. Like, what do you do with them?

I hope I haven't drowned you in obvious, superficial wisdoms yet, but success in anything does not stem from knowing things perfectly on the first try, it stems from "keep trying". Yeah, sometimes with some things we're lucky to learn a bit from other people's mistakes, too, but most of the time you just keep standing up one more time than you fall down, and then that counts as success. Thinking back to my teens/twenties the majority of people don't know how to make or keep friends.That's why so many people are hurtful, it's not that they're evil, it's just that they're trying to figure things out and to err is human. Learn what you can from what works not, and move on. Imitate that which you like and see if it works.

Or if you think I should just man the fuck up and stop wanting to be so existentially satisfied and self-actualised

Well, are those very high benchmarks of existential satisfaction and self-actualization really your own; or are they internalized expectations from other? Some people are really good with a top-down approach, they set super high goals and break it down and operationalize them. Other people are very bottom-up, they'll look at all the things going on, and try to find ways to improve little things a little bit. Most people do a mixture of both. Set some broad goals, as a vision, but put most of the effort into those little changes. Like I said I find enjoyment not by having arrived at some mythical zen-place, but I find enjoyment in continuous improvement and following new ideas/interests and making small changes. At least where I am now in life, I guess it requires that the basics/big things are working for you (your job, the network of people you interact with, where you live).

I guess that was quite a bit of rambling on my part as well, hopefully there's 1 or 2 ideas in there that you can put to some use...

[EcoCanuck]

It’s kind of a problem, though, because when people say “You’re only 25, don’t worry about it!” I just don’t feel like I have the mind or interior structure that people imagine a 25-year-old to have. I was just born old and I’m waiting for my body to catch up. I had to give my age for a form recently and my friend/colleague who is in her early 30s was shocked at how “young” I am. She mentally classed me as the same age as her. But I’ve done a lot of life early. I started a pension at 18, met my now-husband at 19 and settled down with him shortly afterwards, got married a few years ago. I don’t drink, I don’t go out to clubs or whatever in the evenings, I don’t go on “crazy” holidays, or buy the latest clothes or gadgets… an early night and a book are excitement enough for me! So my mind is about 55, my “life stage” is about 35, but everything else is only 25.

Hello fellow Old Soul / Introvert.

I'm 5 years ahead of you but similar in many cases. I've felt and been told my entire life that I am much older/mature/etc for my age since I was a child. It has been a hindrance and an opportunity at the same time. Had I only been more extroverted I would probably be leagues ahead in my career.

You're a thinker. This is a good thing. It however can become exhausting and lead you down some darker roads. I've only recently started using the forum and incorporating MMM concepts (generally frugal for life though) but it has had me 'comparing' myself to my friends/family from the financial side of things. I've realized this is unhealthy as a straight-comparison. The issue is that no matter what we've all had different starting points and there's no right way to do any of it. You can compare some superficial things but a lot of life is pure luck, a good chunk of it is hard work and the rest is what you make of it. You need to evaluate why you're comparing and make peace with it. Yes, it will come up again and again, that's human nature. Compare but in moderation. Compare for the right reasons. Straight financial/material comparisons only have a little superficial value.

I found a lot of clarity and purpose taking an environmental direction with my career/hobbies. Before this point I was floating through life. Struggling to find purpose in a system that is... broken at its core. It also helped with comparing myself to others. I see a lot of waste when I look at comparisons now. I work to do good and I live to do good and even if people disagree with the 'why' of doing good I'm still trying to make things healthier and better for people. I get to earn money for it as well! That being said it is very frustrating and mentally exhausting discussing this field with people.

My general advice is to try and enjoy the moment more. Create some short, medium and long term goals and after completing each goal evaluate your direction. Make a list (i love lists) of things you haven't tried or random concepts to look up and challenge yourself to try some new things. If one of these things you enjoy see if you can start a small business from home or if there's anything in town/nearby. Watch some TED talks about things you've never considered. Etc. To me it sounds like you need to add some life experiences, you need to feel challenged. It doesn't necessarily need to be in the working world. As an introvert looking for purpose I highly recommend the environmental route.

You might feel old but there is a lot of life to live. Best of luck to you.

EcoCanuck

[cerat0n1a]

Staying at Home
My husband and I have talked about having children in the next few years but I just worry that my life as an independent being would be over then. I would want to care for my children and hopefully homeschool them, but I don't want to not have had the opportunity to live a little first. I will never again have the freedom that I do now, and I don't even know what to do with it.

You've had loads of sensible advice and good comments, already, so just a couple of extra points.

Had children in my late twenties (seemingly earlier than almost all middle class people in Britain...) and they'll be off to university soon. Most of our friends are people with children of a similar age. You go through a fairly intense physical & emotional life-changing experience at the same time and then have things which bring you together socially on a daily basis for many years afterwards. For nearly all of human history, this wasn't something that you consciously decided to do, it just happened.

From observation of peers, it seems to stop worries about "what is my purpose" and "am I wasting my life" and all that kind of stuff - at least for a few years, because you have something incredibly absorbing (both in a good way and a bad way) that you are forced to pay attention to. It also gives (for women in particular) a certain social position.

So - absolutely not a suggestion that having children would make things better, but an observation that a child makes a lot of these kind of "first world problems" go away - or at least puts them on hold.

Comparing
So I compare myself to other people. I compare myself to the people I graduated with. I compare myself to my friends.

And those people will be comparing themselves to you and saying "oh my god, she's already married, I'm going to be left on the shelf", "oh my god, she's so clever, she went to the best university in the country", "oh my god, she has a job doing something she loves, while I'm stuck in this boring corporate job". How many 20somethings have any savings whatsoever, let alone a pension & 3 years worth of household expenses saved up?

Find a CBT technique that works to stop you doing this - just don't allow yourself to think this way. I think it's a particularly acute problem for your generation, because of Facebook etc.

Purpose
I think I am lacking purpose in my life, but I don't know where to find one. I also don't really have any close friends to confide in at the moment. I can talk to my husband but he's just so fucking supportive and nice all the time. I need a bit of a wall to bounce off. Not facepunches exactly, but maybe a stern talking to.

Yup, you just need to HTFU :-)

I don't think it's reasonable for your husband to be your only person to confide in. It's too much to expect of him and not good for your relationship long-term. No one person can meet all of your emotional needs.  Even us introverts are social animals. Sounds like making a friend should be high on your agenda.

I'd also add that if you turned up to either of my GP friends complaining about feeling slightly depressed, their first question would be about how much exercise you do!

[matchewed]

The desire to be self actualized before you define what that means is a meaningless desire. Let it go. Define your life for yourself.

[palebluedot]

AoM is geared towards men but it has a great series on creating a life blueprint. Hopefully you can get something out of it and mold it to your situation.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/02/08/create-a-life-plan/

[fallstoclimb]

It’s kind of a problem, though, because when people say “You’re only 25, don’t worry about it!” I just don’t feel like I have the mind or interior structure that people imagine a 25-year-old to have. I was just born old and I’m waiting for my body to catch up. I had to give my age for a form recently and my friend/colleague who is in her early 30s was shocked at how “young” I am. She mentally classed me as the same age as her. But I’ve done a lot of life early. I started a pension at 18, met my now-husband at 19 and settled down with him shortly afterwards, got married a few years ago. I don’t drink, I don’t go out to clubs or whatever in the evenings, I don’t go on “crazy” holidays, or buy the latest clothes or gadgets… an early night and a book are excitement enough for me! So my mind is about 55, my “life stage” is about 35, but everything else is only 25.

This may bring you some reassurance (although I admit it is not the most scientific resources):  http://www.bustle.com/articles/92889-3-ways-your-brain-changes-in-your-twenties-according-to-science

You may be a very mature 25, but your brain is still changing, every day.  I think that people like to be able to take credit for most of their personal growth over time, but you can't discount the effects of your brain.

I'm an INFP, and I relate to much of what you say (except I'm one who embraces the "greys" and shies away from black and white thinking).  When I was 25, I had no idea what I was doing.  I was about to start grad school in something that interested me but I had no clear plans for what I would do after.  All I knew was that my current office job was making me miserable.

Now I'm 31, and while many things in my life really have changed for the better, my happiness has increased exponentially to those life changes.  I'm more resilient, less stormy.  Sure we could say this is because I discovered MMM and hiking and cycling and am on top of my finances and learned to trust myself....but, also, my brain changed. 

There's also research implying that you can drive some of the ways in which your brain changes over time (meditation, exercise, blah blah blah) but you can't stop the change from happening.

Which is not to say just give up on designing a life to make yourself happy.  (That puttering around at home sounds amazing to me).  But, take comfort in the fact that you have more growing and changing to do, whether you like it or not. 

I've been getting into meditation (recommend it for everyone), and one thing I'm learning is the danger in assuming you know what the next moment will bring, or the next, or the next.  You don't know everything.  Let yourself be surprised. 

[Parizade]

I think that part of the problem is that when you’re 19 it’s easy to say “Oh yeah, it’s my parents’ fault” but a few years down the line it starts to be your own fault and I think I’m getting to that “Oh fuck… personal responsibility…” stage

Personal responsibility is essential to growth, but please don't underestimate the damage done by bad parenting. At your age I tested as an INFJ with my Introversion score at the top of the charts, but guess what: if you've been socially isolated, neglected, and punished for seeking relationships from the time you were a toddler you will appear to be an introvert. If you've been punished every time you expressed any joy or passion you learn to repress those feelings.

Turns out I'm a naturally social person who craves social interaction on a regular basis. I'm also a naturally optimistic and happy person, my mother had to  work extremely hard to turn me into a depressive type (because how dare I be happier than her, she'd show me). Oh, and I'm naturally organized and tidy, but I didn't know that until I learned to overcome the panic attacks that hit any time I tried to do the dishes or laundry (you're not doing it right you ugly stupid thing, how could I have given birth to such a loser).

If you were raised by a narcissist you won't know who you really are until you do the work to untangle what was done to you. It's hard, but soooooo worth it. And everything else in life becomes so much easier.

[pbkmaine]

In my extended family is a woman who appears to have Made It. She has a PhD, a Very Big Job at a top consulting firm, a really nice wife and two adorable children. They live in a house overlooking the ocean and have millions conservatively invested. I was sitting next to her at a family wedding, she'd had a few drinks, and there it was. Imposter Syndrome. "I keep wondering when they are going to find out I have no idea what I'm talking about." It is absolutely amazing how many people have it.

[milliemchi]

I just wanted to quickly comment...

I think the best you can do now is to do what you do well, as best as you can.  If you can improve, do.  This goes for your work, for your marriage, your friendships, spirituality, finances, and anything you find important in life. Read self-help books. Learn what you can. Practice being useful to others and yourself.

You are young now, and being a bit lost is par for the course. Some years later, a switch will come on, you will look back at all you've accomplished, and you will realize what your worth is.  You will make a transition from valuing yourself against outside measures (how do I compare to peers, what does my husband/mother/boss think of me) to valuing yourself for who you are and what you have accomplished so far,  within the constraints of your own circumstances.  This is part of personal growth, and it takes time.

I'm in my forties now, and from my experience, and from observing my friends' lives, I think women go through a transition in their thirties, coming out much wiser and less anxious about themselves and their worth. Having accomplished something in your twenties helps that process, obviously.

[milliemchi]

Also, look up and read up on 'the impostor syndrome'.  This is the feeling that you are not quite worthy of the professional position you are in, and is rampant among women across all fields. A lot of successful women talk about experiencing it in interviews. I am quite successful in what I do, and the only reason I am self-confident is that I did read about the syndrome, realized that these feelings are not specific to my situation, and that I should not take them seriously. For me, it was really about education, learning that these feelings are irrational, and that men at the same level of accomplishment do not have them.  Then I buckled up, owned my current successes, and took it from there.

While on the topic, there is a lot written about self-sabotaging that professional women tend to do to themselves, because of the way they have been socialized.  It was very useful to me, professionally, to read about that, which allowed me to take up more risk by asking for more responsibility (for more pay) at work. You can read Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In to get some perspective.  What also helped me was a comment from Hilary Clinton: she said that when she mentions a promotion to her female aids, they all ask "do you think I'm ready?" The men all ask "when do I start?" Nuff said.

[sing365]

I don't have any useful advice to offer, but thank you for posting. It really resonated with me, and it's always nice to know that you're not alone. And thank you to everyone else for your thoughtful comments, as they are really helping me as well! This particularly stuck out:

I had a huge wobble when I got to university and felt like I had done everything I was supposed to and got to “the end” only to find out it wasn’t the end any more, and now there was suddenly this terrifying option of “what do I want?” I think I just keep having aftershocks from that wobble – it’s like a caged animal having the door opened onto a great big amazing world but wanting to stay in the cage because it feels safe there.

I'm 30. I quit my "high-powered" job last summer - basically, I just didn't feel like doing it anymore. Like you, I was always on the so-called "right track" in life - this university, that job, this business school, that promotion. In some ways, quitting that "right" job without a plan was the bravest thing I have ever done. At first, the freedom was exhilarating. I felt like I was finally my own woman! But it can also be overwhelming - because now I need to define my own success. I have been casting about, doing freelance projects, and I absolutely don't know "what to do with my life." Of course, this is a VERY nice problem to have, and I absolutely recognize that.

It doesn't help that I'm pregnant. The zombie-like exhaustion and hormones have not improved my outlook on life (ha). I am also not sure what I will do after the baby comes, and I also feel feminist guilt about potentially staying home. I also make unhelpful comparisons. I imagine what my peers will think - "she couldn't hack it," "she gave up." In reality I'm sure no one actually cares but me, and I just need to work on strengthening my internal compass. Anyway, no advice here, just trying to relate. Good luck to you.

[FINate]

I struggled with imposter syndrome for many years and was constantly afraid of being discovered as a fraud at work. Learning that imposter syndrome is a thing, then reading about it and talking with others about it was a big help in [mostly] getting over it. I was surprised by how common it is, and the competency of those around me who also struggled with it.

As I read your post it occurred to me that you're dealing with a lot of expectations, real or perceived, from others (parents, peers, alma mater). I think it's important to be brutally honest with yourself about *your* values and priorities, and then make decisions based on these. This may require disappointing some people, but it's your life not theirs. Better to disappoint others than yourself.

[DollarBill]

Following and no time to add to post

[Reader]

Reader: I had a huge wobble when I got to university and felt like I had done everything I was supposed to and got to “the end” only to find out it wasn’t the end any more, and now there was suddenly this terrifying option of “what do I want?” I think I just keep having aftershocks from that wobble – it’s like a caged animal having the door opened onto a great big amazing world but wanting to stay in the cage because it feels safe there.

I know I’m young to be worrying so much about having children but I really don’t want to be an old parent. I have a personal mental deadline of 30 to either start trying or decide on never. This is partially a biology thing and partially because my parents had me quite old and it just sucks.

So my mind is about 55, my “life stage” is about 35, but everything else is only 25.

You know.. you may well be the case of the grand dame who woke up one morning and realised she's 18 again! now what would she do with all that boundless energy at her disposal now without the need to impress anyone.. :)

on babies and mental deadlines. never say never. i know a couple from univ who swore to be DINKS and never have kids. married at 25, got one dog at 30, the second dog at 32. they have three daughters now :)

[The_path_less_taken]

The_path_less_taken: I’m curious – how old did you think I was? I almost always come across as older than I am – in print and in person! I’m both surprised and glad that you favourably recall some of my previous posts! Thank you!

It’s kind of a problem, though, because when people say “You’re only 25, don’t worry about it!” I just don’t feel like I have the mind or interior structure that people imagine a 25-year-old to have. I was just born old and I’m waiting for my body to catch up. I had to give my age for a form recently and my friend/colleague who is in her early 30s was shocked at how “young” I am. She mentally classed me as the same age as her. But I’ve done a lot of life early. I started a pension at 18, met my now-husband at 19 and settled down with him shortly afterwards, got married a few years ago. I don’t drink, I don’t go out to clubs or whatever in the evenings, I don’t go on “crazy” holidays, or buy the latest clothes or gadgets… an early night and a book are excitement enough for me! So my mind is about 55, my “life stage” is about 35, but everything else is only 25.
[/quote]



Because you come across as someone with so much common sense, but who also has a heart....I assumed you were 40ish. IOW I felt you exhibited a writing style of someone much older, who had already weathered the slings and arrows, etc. Someone who has had their heart broken, broke someone's heart, been broke, been not broke....someone with a lot more miles on them than your calendar age.

To be as articulate as  you are, and as concise a writer as you are, is VERY rare at your age!

Kudos! 

[MissMoneyBags]

A lot of what you say resonates with me, as I also work in a creative field (theatre design), and I honestly wish I had questioned some of my beliefs when I started out 15 years ago. I used to think that having a job I loved (something creative), would mean "that I'd never work". But guess what? After a while everything turns into a job.. And the things people do in the name of art, are no better than what people do in the pursuit of profit. Somehow it's ok to ask creative people to work for little/no money - for the prestige/credit/experience/for what it will lead to. Some times that works out, most often it doesn't. And I'm not talking about fringe theatre companies. I'm talking about multi million pounds operations.

So I don't think you should feel that being creative in your job should be a reward in itself - if that's not how you feel!

[shelivesthedream]

Somewhat rambly update:

I have been pondering everything in this thread and letting it compost over the past week and a bit. Then I went to the countryside over the weekend. And then today I went to a strategic planning session for a local organisation that I am involved with... and I feel like a veil has been lifted from my eyes. A problem we have been having with the organisation is just going round and round in circles about what we do and who we are, and so have been unable to make any policy decisions on some important issues. The facilitator today worked with us about the hierarchy of planning.

First you have your vision: what your perfect world would look like.
Then you have your mission: a bit like your vision, but with verbs and how you as an organisation fit into it.7
Then you have your values: fundamental things you believe in and fundamental ways you want to act.
Only then can you write your strategic objectives and develop your SMART goals.

It was huge for us as an organisation because we realised that our current "mission statement" is in fact a mishmash of mission, objectives, goals, action points... So the reason we can't seem to do anything is because we don't know what we're trying to do. We've got it all the wrong way round - we were trying to paint the walls before we'd build the house.

I feel like I've been hearing about values and priorities and all that kind of stuff for years and years and just never really understanding it. I read a lot of self help books as a teen and they all seemed to waffle on endlessly about needing to live life by your values but offered no way to figure out what they were. I now realise that I was failing to understand the difference between a value and some other stuff. I was trying to fit the low level stuff into the higher levels slots and wondering why it wasn't working.

I would highly recommend strategic planning consultancy instead of therapy for minor philosophical-type life satisfaction-type problems.

I've also been trying to write an application for a grant whose brief is very wide: basically, developing you as an artist. And it's been such a struggle! I've realised that it's because I didn't have any artistic objectives and I thought that was the same as not having artistic values. I'm still trying to get over the guilt of applying for such a selfish grant... it's so hard to write about why I should win the money. I keep thinking "But I don't deserve to develop as an artist." But I am managing to reply "But then nor does anyone else and they'll all be applying!" Even if I don't win, the process has been very valuable in thinking about what I would do artistically if I had a pot of money to spend on anything I liked as long as it made me a better artist. I have come up with an idea that I am very interested in, which I don't think I would have given myself permission to think through before. But now I am thinking that maybe I should try and do something like it even if I don't win. One of my original problems was not feeling very driven in my creative work and feeling guilty about that. That is still sort of the case (that I don't have some massive vaulting ambition that I would kill puppies to achieve), but I do now think that I also didn't feel like I had "permission" to want certain things.

I also thought that I knew about impostor syndrome, but although I knew about it intellectually I didn't actually do anything with that knowledge. Now I look at people I look up to and specifically imagine them thinking "I have no idea what I'm doing". https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnhzjP2MemqZDc4/giphy.gif It kind of helps, but only when I remember about it.

[Bertram]

I feel like I've been hearing about values and priorities and all that kind of stuff for years and years and just never really understanding it. I read a lot of self help books as a teen and they all seemed to waffle on endlessly about needing to live life by your values but offered no way to figure out what they were. I now realise that I was failing to understand the difference between a value and some other stuff. I was trying to fit the low level stuff into the higher levels slots and wondering why it wasn't working.

I would highly recommend strategic planning consultancy instead of therapy for minor philosophical-type life satisfaction-type problems.

So, has it helped you actually find and formulate a vision or strategy for your life? I find it a bit difficult to transfer some stuff from the organizational side (was one of my majors) to the personal side. Simply because it's natural for an organization to have a narrowly defined focus and leave out stuff that doesn't bring you closer to whatever goals. But as a person it's the opposite, you want to get a wide variety of inputs and things (see the topic on well-roundedness), or maybe it's just me because I feel strongly about being a generalist. I just can't understand how people that have a narrow and deep focus are happy at all.

Hence why I was talking about top down vs bottom-up planning earlier in this topic. I feel like the most random decisions and things I did had the most profound and lasting impact on my life, simply because it opened up huge new areas, topics and people to explore and get to know. I like the "do one thing that scares you" type philosophy of walking through life.

[milliemchi]

First you have your vision: what your perfect world would look like.
Then you have your mission: a bit like your vision, but with verbs and how you as an organisation fit into it.7
Then you have your values: fundamental things you believe in and fundamental ways you want to act.
Only then can you write your strategic objectives and develop your SMART goals.

I feel like I've been hearing about values and priorities and all that kind of stuff for years and years and just never really understanding it. I read a lot of self help books as a teen and they all seemed to waffle on endlessly about needing to live life by your values but offered no way to figure out what they were. I now realise that I was failing to understand the difference between a value and some other stuff. I was trying to fit the low level stuff into the higher levels slots and wondering why it wasn't working.

I would highly recommend strategic planning consultancy instead of therapy for minor philosophical-type life satisfaction-type problems.

I think you've had a very important breakthrough on you journey to a fulfilling life, which is great. Still, I think 25, even a very old 25, is too young to fix and fully define your values, goals, etc.  You will likely have many experiences, and will learn about other people's experiences, which will help form your value system over the years. There's nothing wrong in planning your life the best you can now, just keep in mind that there will be (significant) evolution in the future. In practical terms, this would mean being open to different kinds of experiences, projects, people, etc., and taking chances that open up for you, even if they don't fit your plan exactly.  It's good to have a plan for your career, but sometimes serendipity brings about good things.

[Ynari]

So many things in your post resonated with me. I'm 23, with an Ivy-class degree in economics, yet I find myself pursuing a career in performance and athletics.

My biggest recommendation is meditation. I use the app Headspace, as a friend gave me a code for a free subscription. There's a free community based one called Insights Timer, and Raptitute has some good beginner guides.

Meditation, first and foremost, gets me out of my depressive state. It takes my anxious worries and lets them evolve into realistic thoughts. "I'm not good enough and nobody should hire me" becomes "I'm working hard and people seem to like what I do, perfection is not the goal - engaging with others is." "I don't work hard enough to ever be good" turns into "I can only really control today - so where can I make progress?"

Secondly, it helps define that "drive". Now, with Mustachian influences, I probably could have withstood the rat race for a nice early retirement, but I found I don't even really have the drive to work for oodles of money because I've found I don't *need* oodles of money. I've also found that doing What I Love does not mean I have Passion - in fact, I think Passion is a misused term (See productivity bloggers/authors like Cal Newport and Scott H Young.)  Ultimately, when I meditate, I see where I find value, in myself and others. It's no good to compare myself to people who live for performance and therefore spend hours a day training and creating. While I would like a facet of performance, another aspect of my "drive" is more on the side of teaching, inspiring, and helping other people. I really don't think this is a bad thing. I was never the sort to want fame and fortune - but I'd love to work on community art programs.

Anyway, that's how I deal right now. It isn't perfect, but it helps.

[arebelspy]

A lot of your first post resonated with me as well.

You aren't alone.  :)

First you have your vision: what your perfect world would look like.
Then you have your mission: a bit like your vision, but with verbs and how you as an organisation fit into it.7
Then you have your values: fundamental things you believe in and fundamental ways you want to act.
Only then can you write your strategic objectives and develop your SMART goals.

I feel like I've been hearing about values and priorities and all that kind of stuff for years and years and just never really understanding it. I read a lot of self help books as a teen and they all seemed to waffle on endlessly about needing to live life by your values but offered no way to figure out what they were. I now realise that I was failing to understand the difference between a value and some other stuff. I was trying to fit the low level stuff into the higher levels slots and wondering why it wasn't working.

Even with those definitions, I still have a hard time deciding what my vision, mission, and values are.

Starting top down is obviously the way to go, but when you get stuck at the first step...?

:)

[Erica]

You are doing so well! Others are probably intimidated you are not mentally chained to the rat race.

Enjoy your life as you have been. If you feel like you are being judged, you might be intimidating them again. So be it

[2Cent]

A lot of your first post resonated with me as well.

You aren't alone.  :)

First you have your vision: what your perfect world would look like.
Then you have your mission: a bit like your vision, but with verbs and how you as an organisation fit into it.7
Then you have your values: fundamental things you believe in and fundamental ways you want to act.
Only then can you write your strategic objectives and develop your SMART goals.

I feel like I've been hearing about values and priorities and all that kind of stuff for years and years and just never really understanding it. I read a lot of self help books as a teen and they all seemed to waffle on endlessly about needing to live life by your values but offered no way to figure out what they were. I now realise that I was failing to understand the difference between a value and some other stuff. I was trying to fit the low level stuff into the higher levels slots and wondering why it wasn't working.

Even with those definitions, I still have a hard time deciding what my vision, mission, and values are.

Starting top down is obviously the way to go, but when you get stuck at the first step...?

:)

The way to go is not just top down, but also iterative(as opposed to first time right). So you pick a simple life vision that you like and start working down. Then when you're done ask yourself what you like doing and what things you value that don't derive from your simple vision or if there are other things that are more important to you. Then you work out what that means for your original vision and start back from step one.

This could be a life long process.

[arebelspy]

The way to go is not just top down, but also iterative(as opposed to first time right). So you pick a simple life vision that you like and start working down. Then when you're done ask yourself what you like doing and what things you value that don't derive from your simple vision or if there are other things that are more important to you. Then you work out what that means for your original vision and start back from step one.

This could be a life long process.

Very true.

But to iterate, you need to do it a first time.  And if you're stuck on the first step of doing it initially, the idea to ask yourself what went well, or what wasn't working with your vision doesn't help.

This reminds me, though, of a conversation I had a month and 1/2 ago on a blog with another MMM reader.

He talks about the same concept, of developing your life's vision:
http://thehappyphilosopher.com/why-your-life-never-seems-to-change/

He breaks it down into vision, strategy, and tactics, versus the vision, mission, and values mentioned here... same basic idea though.

My reply, in the comments:

I just hit my previous vision (retiring to travel the world) and am putting time into trying to develop my current vision.

After focusing on this goal for so long, I have no idea “what’s next,” so I’m working on trying to figure that out.

The problem is, so many of the resources say “figure out your vision” (or whatever terminology they use for it), and then talk about how to develop from there (e.g. make a dream board, or figure out the strategies/tactics, or whatever), but I’m having trouble finding resources on how to actually figure out the overall vision itself.

The “imagine your perfect day” comes closest, I suppose, though things one might want to do may not show up in a particular day. Also if you have no idea what you want that to look like?

I’m pretty good at taking a vision and making it happen. But how do I generate a brand new vision from nothing?

I’m struggling a bit more with that.  :)

I still haven't found any good resources for kickstarting the first step.  I feel fairly confident in taking a vision and making it happen.  But how to make a vision?  No idea.  And haven't found anything helpful in that area.  Yet.  Still looking.  :)

[shelivesthedream]

The way to go is not just top down, but also iterative(as opposed to first time right). So you pick a simple life vision that you like and start working down. Then when you're done ask yourself what you like doing and what things you value that don't derive from your simple vision or if there are other things that are more important to you. Then you work out what that means for your original vision and start back from step one.

This could be a life long process.

Very true.

But to iterate, you need to do it a first time.  And if you're stuck on the first step of doing it initially, the idea to ask yourself what went well, or what wasn't working with your vision doesn't help.

This reminds me, though, of a conversation I had a month and 1/2 ago on a blog with another MMM reader.

He talks about the same concept, of developing your life's vision:
http://thehappyphilosopher.com/why-your-life-never-seems-to-change/

He breaks it down into vision, strategy, and tactics, versus the vision, mission, and values mentioned here... same basic idea though.

My reply, in the comments:

I just hit my previous vision (retiring to travel the world) and am putting time into trying to develop my current vision.

After focusing on this goal for so long, I have no idea “what’s next,” so I’m working on trying to figure that out.

The problem is, so many of the resources say “figure out your vision” (or whatever terminology they use for it), and then talk about how to develop from there (e.g. make a dream board, or figure out the strategies/tactics, or whatever), but I’m having trouble finding resources on how to actually figure out the overall vision itself.

The “imagine your perfect day” comes closest, I suppose, though things one might want to do may not show up in a particular day. Also if you have no idea what you want that to look like?

I’m pretty good at taking a vision and making it happen. But how do I generate a brand new vision from nothing?

I’m struggling a bit more with that.  :)

I still haven't found any good resources for kickstarting the first step.  I feel fairly confident in taking a vision and making it happen.  But how to make a vision?  No idea.  And haven't found anything helpful in that area.  Yet.  Still looking.  :)

This is the thing that changed for me with the way this strategic planning consultant explained things. I'm thinking of writing up in a longer form article, but I won't have the time for a little while. However, I can explain a bit of it now, though I don't know if I'll do a very good job. I'm very happy to answer more questions to clarify, though.

Things that people think are visions are often not visions. Rather, they take things from lower down the pyramid (vision --> mission --> values --> strategic objectives --> 3-5 year goals) and try to stick them up in vision or mission. To use an example from the article you linked to,  "I will achieve financial freedom by age 50 so work becomes a choice and I will have complete autonomy to follow my passions" is in fact a strategic objective. How can you tell? It's something that can be 'finished'. The real vision behind it might be "a free, unattached, passionate life". The vision should not be something that can be ticked off and then you move on. That's a strategic objective. The vision might change and should be revisited, but it should be something that might very slowly evolve. Like maybe he would eventually have a wife and children and then his vision would be "a free, loving, passionate life".

The point is that everything hangs on the level above it (with the semi-exception of values which sort of sit alongside mission) so that your 3-5 year goals should align directly upwards with your vision. And a vision is SIMPLE. One sentence, a few words... They might be something you can unpack lower down, or something that has implicit associations to you, but your vision is not wordy and is not some "achievable" thing and is not overly specific.

I'm tossing some things around myself at the moment, but I'm thinking about "a peaceful, free, natural life". If I want to do something (from buying a KitKat to moving house or changing career) then fundamentally I can just ask myself whether it is peaceful, free and natural, and then the decision is halfway made. Obviously it's not totally that simple, and those words have a plethora of implicit associations for me that mean they might mean something completely different to you, but that's what a vision is. A perfect day or travelling around the world are strategic (major overarching) objectives (which are then broken down into SMART goals/tactics with a plan for achieving them). The strategic objectives are naturally iterative because circumstances change and you might complete some bits and then come up with others, but the vision should be something that is designed not to change change for the whole life of the organisation.

I'm surprised, arebelspy, to hear that you don't feel like you have a vision. You seem so sorted and so directed and value-driven on this forum. Every time I read one of your posts (be it about entitled millenials or about travelling the world with a baby) I think "Man, that guy really has his shit together. He knows where he's going in life."

[arebelspy]

Things that people think are visions are often not visions. Rather, they take things from lower down the pyramid (vision --> mission --> values --> strategic objectives --> 3-5 year goals) and try to stick them up in vision or mission. To use an example from the article you linked to,  "I will achieve financial freedom by age 50 so work becomes a choice and I will have complete autonomy to follow my passions" is in fact a strategic objective. How can you tell? It's something that can be 'finished'. The real vision behind it might be "a free, unattached, passionate life". The vision should not be something that can be ticked off and then you move on. That's a strategic objective. The vision might change and should be revisited, but it should be something that might very slowly evolve. Like maybe he would eventually have a wife and children and then his vision would be "a free, loving, passionate life".

The point is that everything hangs on the level above it (with the semi-exception of values which sort of sit alongside mission) so that your 3-5 year goals should align directly upwards with your vision. And a vision is SIMPLE. One sentence, a few words... They might be something you can unpack lower down, or something that has implicit associations to you, but your vision is not wordy and is not some "achievable" thing and is not overly specific.

I think I'm explaining myself poorly, because you're missing my point.  :)

My point is, however you want to define vision, I don't know how to go from "nothing" to "vision."  How do I jump start into knowing what I want?

If you want to define it as simple, a few words, whatever... how do I even generate that?

Your explanation gave a different spin on what it is, sure, but not how to come up with it.  THAT'S what I'm stuck on.  :)

I'm surprised, arebelspy, to hear that you don't feel like you have a vision. You seem so sorted and so directed and value-driven on this forum. Every time I read one of your posts (be it about entitled millenials or about travelling the world with a baby) I think "Man, that guy really has his shit together. He knows where he's going in life."

Another example of me communicating poorly.  I don't know *.   :)

[The Happy Philosopher]

I've thought about these issues for some time now and don't have it all figured out, but here is an idea.

One way to look at it is this - your vision is not what is important. What is important are what makes you happy, what excites you, what you are passionate about. These should be your goals. The vision is an important tool to realize these fundamental goals, and the main point I was trying to make in my post was that people often focus on specific strategies and tactics without using the framework of a vision.

I also purposefully used a simple vision that was easy to illustrate.

What may be more useful is a list of goals and a mission statement or something similar.

JD Roth has a good example of this in the middle of this post.

http://moneyboss.com/personal-mission-statement/

When in doubt WRITE. Just start writing. There is something magical about just typing your life into a computer and reading it back (although for this I'm old school and like a pen and paper - uses the brain in a slightly different way).

The other thing to know is that this is a messy process. It may take years to figure this out, and in fact will probably always be changing. I'm still figuring this stuff out for myself.

Don't know if that was helpful or more confusing, but I do know I write better after a cup of coffee and I haven't had one yet!

I will eventually be writing about this stuff further on my blog, and if I remember I will throw a link over on this thread if I write any posts that I think might be useful :)

[Bertram]

My point is, however you want to define vision, I don't know how to go from "nothing" to "vision."  How do I jump start into knowing what I want?

If you want to define it as simple, a few words, whatever... how do I even generate that?

Your explanation gave a different spin on what it is, sure, but not how to come up with it.  THAT'S what I'm stuck on.  :)

This is where I'd say: Bottom up. Look at the life experiences you have had, and how they made you feel. Try to understand why they made you feel that way, and start from there.

We're not building a living machine from scratch which we are breathing life into and that we have to give some framework. We've already been living for a long time, and we've made plenty of experiences so there's already some things that make us tick and that guide/inform our decisions. They're probably just not very consistent yet, but we can tell what we like and what we don't like, and we can try to extrapolate from there what could be.The key is to understand oneself first, and then think about changing or defining it next. THat's what I meant in my earlier posts with learning to listen to oneself.

[Torran]

Hi there,

I'm just chiming in here to express what my personal experience was - hopefully to help you to go a bit easier on yourself and not be too harsh on yourself about the problems you're facing.

Basically, my mid-twenties were the worst time of my life.

I'm 30 now, so, I hope I have a lot more life to live, and hey, there will no doubt be bad times and good times ahead. But I can definitely confirm that being 25 was the time in my life when a perfect storm occurred, made up of a horrible murky mix of other people's expectations/my feelings of failure/apathy about the future/feeling I was wasting my freedom.

I really feel for you - I wish I could give you a hug and tell you that it will definitely get better. It will get SO much better, in so many different ways.

I left highschool convinced I was going to be mega-awesome at life (like every teenager, ever). I travelled in exotic places for 6 months. I came back to the UK, went to uni, collected a long-term relationship, moved in with my boyfriend, graduated with a first. In my final year I gained more experience teaching abroad (a field I was interested in). So far, so good.

Then I couldn't get a job, and sat around my flat a lot, feeling friendless and lonely, and over-privileged, and bored, and pointless. I got a 'worthwhile' job in social care, which was stressful and draining, and nothing that I really wanted to be doing. But, more pertinent to your problem, I remember the overriding feeling of that time was that I had failed spectacularly to live up to my potential. I knew there were problems with my behaviour and my choices, but I just didn't have the energy to try and fix them. I didn't want to make friends, because I didn't have the energy or motivation, and honestly, I didn't even really see the point. I had permanent feminist guilt, exactly as you describe - I didn't judge other women but I sure as hell judged myself. I was constantly aware that I had a lot of free time of my hands which so many women throughout the world/and-all-of-history never had, and I was wasting it. I knew I wasn't ready to have kids because I still wanted time to DO stuff by myself, but I had no idea what the stuff might be. Change the world? Write a book? Start some sort of no-pants-party cult? Whatever it was, I was not doing it. I was sitting around reading, crying, napping, and watching movies, while feeling evil and guilty, spoilt and stupid.

What helped to dig me out of this hole was, basically, getting a bit older and life changing a bit. Sorry to offer such a crappy solution - and I know it didn't feel like a solution at the time - but now, 5 years later, I am a much better, different person.

Just after I turned 25, the following things happened: a break-up, a redundancy, a serious health scare, and then, when I was just about to turn 26, moving back in with my parents, with a life in tatters. And then recovering my health, moving back to the big city, getting a new job, digging myself out of a financial hole and into financial security, meeting a new man and falling in love, getting promoted (and rainbows and freshly cut flowers, etc. Basically everything went shockingly terrible and then got remarkably better).

I had to do a few things:

Let go of the intense anger I felt toward myself. What made me so special? Why wasn't it ok that I was just living a fairly average life? Why did I hate myself for not having written the Greatest Novel Of Our Time? There was a whole big bundle of big-fragile-ego and low-self-esteem that I had to unravel. Once I could afford it, I had some therapy. It made a world of difference.

Completely let go of other people's expectations. I now know that I will not have the perfect CV; I won't be the girl that did That Amazing Thing, I do not have a glittering career; and all the achievements I have made are pretty much invisible to anyone but me.

Really get a grip on what's important. My health problems completely pulled the rug out from under me, and removed the most basic sense of safety from my life. I have recovered and feel entirely more optimistic and happy than I was before the health scare. I monumentally don't give a shit about 'looking successful' anymore. At all. It's a cliche, but it's true - it really has made me feel genuinely grateful for what I have. I thoroughly enjoy watching a silly movie at home these days, and I don't feel bad that I'm wasting my time; I just enjoy the fact that I'm sitting there having a good time, which is kind of a miracle, in the extremely grand scale of things.

After all that, I found that I made new friendships effortlessly, all of a sudden, as if it was no big deal.
I became more politically active, less apathetic, and found that I had energy and actually, deep down, cared about things again.
I started to concentrate on my writing (fiction) and found some small (but much treasured) success in this area. I realised that I had finally admitted to myself that this was the only thing I really wanted to pursue. My day job is just to earn the dough. I'm ok with that.
I went from being in debt to having savings.
Although I have not achieved any great public glittering careery achievement, even so, the lingering feeling of failure has completely disappeared, and it has lifted a weight from my shoulders.

I guess my main point is not to diminish what you're feeling or punish yourself for it. When I was 24/25, I just thought I was a spoilt bored person with too much time to dwell on feelings. I can now see that I was dealing with mental health problems as well as physical problems. I wish I'd gone easier on myself. I wish it hadn't taken me so long to stop giving a shit about what I 'should' be doing, and just be ok with doing what I really *felt* like doing.

It sounds, to be honest, that you are already doing immensely well, and handling all of life with self-awareness, careful thought and a lot of motivation. I am definitely not saying that you would need to go through a bit rollercoaster of events/emotions to change - I actually think you're already really on top of things. I hope that you can give yourself a very well deserved pat on the back, or at least, an acknowledgement to yourself that you're kinda nailing it right now.

I wish you all the very best wishes in the world - I'm sure you'll find a way to be that feels entirely right for you.

Finally: this is why I HATE the obsession in the media/culture with youthfulness. Getting older is the best thing ever.

[milliemchi]

Very true.

But to iterate, you need to do it a first time.  And if you're stuck on the first step of doing it initially, the idea to ask yourself what went well, or what wasn't working with your vision doesn't help.

This reminds me, though, of a conversation I had a month and 1/2 ago on a blog with another MMM reader.

He talks about the same concept, of developing your life's vision:
http://thehappyphilosopher.com/why-your-life-never-seems-to-change/

He breaks it down into vision, strategy, and tactics, versus the vision, mission, and values mentioned here... same basic idea though.

My reply, in the comments:

I just hit my previous vision (retiring to travel the world) and am putting time into trying to develop my current vision.

After focusing on this goal for so long, I have no idea “what’s next,” so I’m working on trying to figure that out.

The problem is, so many of the resources say “figure out your vision” (or whatever terminology they use for it), and then talk about how to develop from there (e.g. make a dream board, or figure out the strategies/tactics, or whatever), but I’m having trouble finding resources on how to actually figure out the overall vision itself.

The “imagine your perfect day” comes closest, I suppose, though things one might want to do may not show up in a particular day. Also if you have no idea what you want that to look like?

I’m pretty good at taking a vision and making it happen. But how do I generate a brand new vision from nothing?

I’m struggling a bit more with that.  :)

I still haven't found any good resources for kickstarting the first step.  I feel fairly confident in taking a vision and making it happen.  But how to make a vision?  No idea.  And haven't found anything helpful in that area.  Yet.  Still looking.  :)

Or, to put it differently, arebelspy does not know what he's doing. ;)
https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnhzjP2MemqZDc4/giphy.gif

(The message being, you seems to be doing great already.)

[tooqk4u22]

Very true.

But to iterate, you need to do it a first time.  And if you're stuck on the first step of doing it initially, the idea to ask yourself what went well, or what wasn't working with your vision doesn't help.

This reminds me, though, of a conversation I had a month and 1/2 ago on a blog with another MMM reader.

He talks about the same concept, of developing your life's vision:
http://thehappyphilosopher.com/why-your-life-never-seems-to-change/

He breaks it down into vision, strategy, and tactics, versus the vision, mission, and values mentioned here... same basic idea though.

My reply, in the comments:

I just hit my previous vision (retiring to travel the world) and am putting time into trying to develop my current vision.

After focusing on this goal for so long, I have no idea “what’s next,” so I’m working on trying to figure that out.

The problem is, so many of the resources say “figure out your vision” (or whatever terminology they use for it), and then talk about how to develop from there (e.g. make a dream board, or figure out the strategies/tactics, or whatever), but I’m having trouble finding resources on how to actually figure out the overall vision itself.

The “imagine your perfect day” comes closest, I suppose, though things one might want to do may not show up in a particular day. Also if you have no idea what you want that to look like?

I’m pretty good at taking a vision and making it happen. But how do I generate a brand new vision from nothing?

I’m struggling a bit more with that.  :)

I still haven't found any good resources for kickstarting the first step.  I feel fairly confident in taking a vision and making it happen.  But how to make a vision?  No idea.  And haven't found anything helpful in that area.  Yet.  Still looking.  :)

Or, to put it differently, arebelspy does not know what he's doing. ;)
https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnhzjP2MemqZDc4/giphy.gif

(The message being, you seems to be doing great already.)

Arebelspy - I fully get what you are saying.  I think part of the problem/perspective is that you may have never had a vision in the first place, you clearly had a goal or even a mission but maybe not a vision. In some ways, a vision is much like answering "Who do I want to be when I grow up?" 

I had a vision of saving money, retiring early and traveling....oh crap, it happened and now looking back those were goals/objectives. I think my absence or inability to figure out or even think about my vision is contributing entirely to OMY syndrome...at least you don't have that issue. I hadn't really thought about it this way until this post, so I need to explore this more. Thanks for that.

A quick search yielded this, but I am sure there is better. 
http://humanresources.about.com/od/success/a/personal_vision.htm

[milliemchi]

I had a vision of saving money, retiring early and traveling....oh crap, it happened and now looking back those were goals/objectives. I think my absence or inability to figure out or even think about my vision is contributing entirely to OMY syndrome...at least you don't have that issue. I hadn't really thought about it this way until this post, so I need to explore this more. Thanks for that.

A quick search yielded this, but I am sure there is better. 
http://humanresources.about.com/od/success/a/personal_vision.htm

I read a number of books on time management, and most devoted significant space to formulating your vision statement, goals, etc. They do point out that the statement needs to be revisited and updated every year, couple of years, or so, and that it's an evolving document.