Male preschool teachers

[Mustache Fatty]

I've really enjoyed this discussion, and it has made me think a lot about this particular issue and discrimination more generally.  I honestly have not been able to process just what it all means to me, but a few things have bounced in and out of my head that I thought I would share:

- I am questioning myself now about the whole premise of my OP.  I might as well have asked, "How uncomfortable would everyone be with me, as a middle-aged male, teaching your preschool-aged child...because if everyone here agrees that you wouldn't trust me with your child then I want to just move on from this idea." This tells me that at some level I can totally accept discrimination, and that I don't even want to put people in the situation to have to face their discriminatory fears!  I would rather just move on from the opportunity than make a bunch of parents have to make the call to actively shun my class.  I don't know quite yet what that says about me.  At worst, maybe I also discriminate, find it acceptable, and don't want to be called out on it?

- I only take this "I don't want to create a ruckus due to my maleness, so if I can't be a preschool teacher, so be it" attitude because a) I don't have an absolute, burning passion for it, and b) at some level I obviously find it OK to be potentially (and unfairly) shut out of an opportunity here and there.  I think that if I had latched on to this idea of being a preschool teacher early on, trained hard for it, and then bumped up against this issue then my attitude would be different.  Similarly, if my life experience was such that I kept bumping in to this type of discrimination again and again then I could see myself eventually getting angry about it and being far less desirous of making everyone feel comfortable.  As it stands, this is really only the second time in my life where I felt like my being male has somewhat blocked the path of capitalizing on the opportunities available to me.

Anyway, in case you didn't see my earlier post, I am applying to be a substitute preschool teacher at the local school where my son went.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for a very enlightening discussion.

[Psychstache]

To try add in some info for the OP, I would like to add my 0.02 as a male who has worked in education for about a decade, most of it in elementary school settings.

1. I think in general, being a male interested in ECE and working with younger students will be seen as a bonus in most situations. I live in the Deep South, but in a major metro area, and being male working in education has been a positive. Perhaps if I were in a more rural and traditional region it would be more of a weird situation, so I would keep that in mind.

2. Most males working in ECE and teaching in elementary school that I have worked with have been incredible and highly sought after for being such great teachers. I think it makes sense because if you are a man working as a Kinder teacher, they probably directly sought that job out despite societal challenges, so they really wanted it. I have female elementary teachers who are not super into it and just like a job with summers off and are waiting to get married and pregnant to become SAHMs (this is not representative of a significant percentage of teachers I have met, but wanted to note it as it does not apply to any of the male teachers I have worked with).

3. If this is what you are passionate about and what you want to do, go for it. I think those that talked about trying to shadow and otherwise be involved in the center made some great recs above. Best of luck.

Also, wanted to add a couple of points to those of you about safety concerns for children. (Disclaimer: Again, this is an extremely rare circumstance to begin with, but I understand those wanting to be vigilant.)

1. If you are concerned about potential abusers, you can always make efforts to volunteer in your child's school and classroom. Nothing like being present to help address your fears.

2. You should be far less concerned about the teacher than you should about the classroom teacher and more concerned about paraprofessionals and classroom aids. Most teachers are bogged down by paperwork, lesson planning, and meetings these days, so aids spend significantly more time with students and are usually the ones supporting with things like bathroom breaks and such. Also, the qualifications to become a para are far lower (I've known aids whose last job was sandwich artist and oil rig worker and no education background).

3. I think it is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more likely that you will have a female teacher who is emotionally abusive to your 5 year old boy than it is for you to have a male teacher who is sexually abusive to your 5 year old girl. Just some food for thought.

[Gin1984]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

Except that as a white woman, I am more likely to be harmed by a white male, not a black one:
According to Justice Department statistics (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

[CheapskateWife]

This tells me that at some level I can totally accept discrimination, and that I don't even want to put people in the situation to have to face their discriminatory fears!  I would rather just move on from the opportunity than make a bunch of parents have to make the call to actively shun my class.  I don't know quite yet what that says about me. 

It says that you are a very self aware human. 

I obviously find it OK to be potentially (and unfairly) shut out of an opportunity here and there.

I look back on my time as a woman in the Military and realize that there was a very low glass ceiling due to being shut out of combat roles, that I was willing to accept this in order to be there, and serve.  Now, the ceiling has moved up, and I'm so thrilled for women who have come after me.  You are in a position to change the trust dynamic by being an awesome ECE teacher.

Anyway, in case you didn't see my earlier post, I am applying to be a substitute preschool teacher at the local school where my son went.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for a very enlightening discussion.

Congratulations on deciding to push through the culturally accepted discriminatory suggestions!  I wish you the best of luck pursuing your goal!

[wepner]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

Except that as a white woman, I am more likely to be harmed by a white male, not a black one:
According to Justice Department statistics (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

I don't think black people are super dangerous or anything, but just to play devils advocate... That statistic you are citing is mostly telling you that as a white woman you have a vastly lower chance of being in an intimate or family relationship with a black person. Look on page 5 of the link you posted, Something like 80% of all murders are between people that know each other well.

More people die from falling in the shower than from being trampled by an elephant but I'll take the shower every time.

[Letj]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

+1000

The whole premise that a teacher's gender would matter is disgusting.  I would think that a teacher who was fired over the idea that his gender made parents uncomfortable would have the right to sue the hell out of a private or public school for wrongful termination. 

To the OP, if teaching brings you joy, do it!  I would be thrilled to have a variety of teachers in my son's school...as it is currently only middle aged white ladies.  The classroom however is full of a wide variety of students, and if the teacher population could better reflect that diversity, I would be very pleased.  But more importantly...would you be a good teacher?  If so, go for it!

It's not so much that black people commit more murders on a per capita base. The color is irrelevant. Communities with low levels of education, low levels of employment and experiencing discrimination tend to have higher levels of crime most of which will be economic crimes. This is true in any society. It's the same reason why the Roma people in Europe who have experienced systematic and ongoing discrimination have such high level of poverty and the resulting social ills. Luckily for them Europe does not have the dangerous combination of guns and drugs that we have in America.
 The drug trade is responsible for the overwhelming number of crimes in the black community.

Crimes are less among poor whites primarily because most of them live in more spread out rural
 Communities and are more likely to be employed through connections even with a prison record. There are numerous studies on this, google them. To the poster that said they will avoid blacks because statistically blacks commit more murders, you are sadly misguided. The average black person does not commit crimes and being around them doesn't make you more susceptible. If you choose to associate with gangs and drug dealers then you have something to worry about.

[obstinate]

This is really an astounding post, so the worst case scenario for you would be to discriminate against a member of an oppressed group of people, the 2nd worse would be increasing the risk of danger to you and your family and the most preferable would be discriminating against all men.

Almost. I don't actually buy that it would ever likely to be necessary to discriminate an oppressed group to increase my family's safety. But you are right that I'm perfectly fine discriminating against men.

That notwithstanding. Op, I would follow my dreams if I were you. Just because there are some people who would not use your services does not seem fatal to your idea. I don't believe it is wrong for men to do ECE. I'm just not comfortable with the risk personally.

[bacchi]

To the poster that said they will avoid blacks because statistically blacks commit more murders, you are sadly misguided. The average black person does not commit crimes and being around them doesn't make you more susceptible.

Is this true? Wow, that's a relief. It was hard trying to avoid my neighbor down the street. When I saw him walking his dog, I'd turn around and hustle back to the house. I think he was insulted.

I'm assuming that the average man isn't a pedophile, too, right?

[shanghaiMMM]

I was a social worker police man working with abused kids in terrorism and those kids victims are scarred for life.  Guess how many terrorists were sexually abused by a woman non-arabs?  ZERO!!!

This was done before and is still applicable now. As a male elementary teacher who knows several ECE male teachers, I find your views in this thread rather insulting to be honest.

[Cassie]

That's fine. I am sure most men are not perverts but I am not willing to risk my own children or those of others to not discriminate.  I truly wish it was not true.  I am fine with elementary male teachers or preschool if they don't do bathroom duty.  I love men-I have 3 adult sons and a loving husband.  It is just sad that most sexual abusers are men.

[shanghaiMMM]

It is, of course, your prerogative to raise your children as you see fit.

I can't help but feel that such attitudes are why many prejudices of various kinds exist, and I would prefer to do what I can to eradicate such sad ideas.

[darkadams00]

"Bigoted", "stupid", "prejudiced", "biased", "phobic"--terms with mostly negative connotations that are too easily tossed about in this thread and others along similar topics. People make choices every day based on their personal experiences, their childhood, their personality, and their approach to risk. They rely on their social interactions among family, friends, acquaintances, and strangers. They "learn" from listening, reading, and consuming media. Some percentage of these inputs as well as others possibly not mentioned will be compiled into a person's decision process, weights applied as deemed appropriate, and then a decision made.

How about wearing a bike helmet? Or wearing a seatbelt. Or running 3 miles in the neighborhood after dark. Or owning a gun? Is a young adult who has lost a mother, a child, or a spouse due to a drunk driver "stupid" for weighting future decisions more heavily against the use or inclusion of alcohol than someone who has never felt that grief? Hopefully we would think such language to be insensitive.

Is a person a "bigot" because decades of life have indicated that certain career paths DO tend to be dominated by certain genders. The mention of "he" or "she" in casual conversation can simply reflect that reality. A pronoun is not a statement of how one would advise or how that person views the current status of society. Not everyone tries that hard to filter out every little politically correct nuance. That can be harder than getting rid of the "um's" in one's speech.

Face it. We all make decisions. We base those decisions on factors that resonate with us individually. To apply labels to demean people for basing their decisions on inputs different from your own is not passive. It is deliberate, and it says more about the one pointing the finger. (How many fingers are pointing back?)

[former player]

The "bigoted" and "stupid" comments apply to people who on the basis of what they think they know (and we all have limited information about the world) apply that knowledge to whole groups of people based on a characteristic those people have no control over, such as their race, their gender or their sexual orientation.  Anyone saying "some men are paedophiles so I won't let any man teach my children" is being prejudiced, irrational, bigoted and stupid, and probably bringing their child up to be the same.

Someone who is concerned about the potential for a teacher to assault or otherwise mistreat their child should make sure that the school has appropriate policies in place to make that impossible/unlikely and applies those policies properly.  So, the "no man must teach my child" people should have instead said "I am putting my child in the care of people (of both sexes) I don't know, so I will do due diligence on the school's safety policies, compare them to the safety policies at other schools and make my choice accordingly"?  None, I bet.

Also, all those people thinking "a male kindergarten teacher could be a paedophile and I won't let my child near one" probably aren't thinking "my child's father, uncle, brother or family friend could be a paedophile so it's not fine for my child to spend as much unsupervised time with them as they ask for", when statistically this is the situation which is many times more dangerous.

[justajane]

Also, all those people thinking "a male kindergarten teacher could be a paedophile and I won't let my child near one" probably aren't thinking "my child's father, uncle, brother or family friend could be a paedophile so it's not fine for my child to spend as much unsupervised time with them as they ask for", when statistically this is the situation which is many times more dangerous.

Yes, that's the frustrating part. You are causing certain men, as evidenced by comments on this thread and, well, common sense, since who likes to be reduced solely to their sex chromosomes, to feel publicly marginalized and like shit, and your decision is not really making your children much safer, if at all.

[ender]

Also, all those people thinking "a male kindergarten teacher could be a paedophile and I won't let my child near one" probably aren't thinking "my child's father, uncle, brother or family friend could be a paedophile so it's not fine for my child to spend as much unsupervised time with them as they ask for", when statistically this is the situation which is many times more dangerous.

Yes, that's the frustrating part. You are causing certain men, as evidenced by comments on this thread and, well, common sense, since who likes to be reduced solely to their sex chromosomes, to feel publicly marginalized and like shit, and your decision is not really making your children much safer, if at all.

To be fair, this could be the same thing as the race discussion earlier - perhaps those factors are controlled for (ie not allowing their kids in situations 1/1 with non-spouse relatives/friends). If you look at things blindly using statistics without applying the details of each situation you can end up with ridiculous conclusions.

I suspect that risk of abuse in this way goes down considerably if the following are satisfied:

• Child is not alone with people who do drugs / alcohol
• Child is not alone with someone with a mental illness
• Child is not left alone/neglected
• Child is not around people who end up in prison, committing crimes, etc
• Parents have stable job and/or college degree
• Parents have income considerably above poverty level
• Child's parent remain married

Guaranteed? No, but my guess is that controlling for most of those factors would greatly lower the risk your child was abused statistically. Probably considerably more than controlling for whether they have a male/female preschool teacher.

[Psychstache]

To those people who aren't okay with a male elementary or EC teacher, are you okay with your 15 year old daughter being in a male coach/teachers class? I have never had an issue with the elem teachers I have worked with, but have personally seen multiple HS teachers dismissed for this reason. Are you comfortable with this risk since it is more commonplace for a man to be a high school teacher?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Gin1984]

To the poster that said they will avoid blacks because statistically blacks commit more murders, you are sadly misguided. The average black person does not commit crimes and being around them doesn't make you more susceptible.

Is this true? Wow, that's a relief. It was hard trying to avoid my neighbor down the street. When I saw him walking his dog, I'd turn around and hustle back to the house. I think he was insulted.

I'm assuming that the average man isn't a pedophile, too, right?

You are right, BUT so far we have not found women who are.  Women who abuse children including sexual abuse but not those who met the psychological/medical definition of a pedophile. 
That said, I find the position I am in, odd.  I like seeing men in positions like this.  I've had male babysitters for my daughter and would never have a problem with a male preschool teacher.  But even so, pretending the statistics of violence/abuse between male and female is not there is a problem to me and I feel like I need to speak up.
However, most data shows that the violence/abuse is not based off your biology but how we raise those we identify as girls or boys.  For a man to be able to ignore/disregard the culture attitude of our society to want to be a teacher/nanny/babysitter indicates that he is least likely to be violent and probably the least risk to women or children. 

[former player]

I suspect that risk of abuse in this way goes down considerably if the following are satisfied:

• Child is not alone with people who do drugs / alcohol
• Child is not alone with someone with a mental illness
• Child is not left alone/neglected
• Child is not around people who end up in prison, committing crimes, etc
• Parents have stable job and/or college degree
• Parents have income considerably above poverty level
• Child's parent remain married

Guaranteed? No, but my guess is that controlling for most of those factors would greatly lower the risk your child was abused statistically. Probably considerably more than controlling for whether they have a male/female preschool teacher.

Also, the couhild is taught from an early age that being touched in inappropriate ways and/or in ways they are uncomfortable with, by anyone at all, is something to 1) say no to, immediately and loudly 2) tell their parents about and 3) not blame themselves for.

[shelivesthedream]

All y'all who are terrified of male preschool teachers abusing your children are crazy. I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in these safeguarding-aware times, no adult is ever left alone with a child (supposedly unless they have a DBS check, but for ass-covering reasons in practice it is never). Maybe I would be uneasy privately hiring a male nanny to work alone with my children in my home (because I'm not convinced I'd be in a position to do proper background checks) but I'd sure as hell have a male teacher in a preschool and would probably hire a male nanny from a reputable and thorough agency. I'd be a LOT more worried about a male high school teacher because teenage girls can get all sorts of ideas in their heads and I'd worry they might have a crush on them.

As for the bathroom thing... If male teachers can't go into the girls bathroom then female teachers can't go into the boys bathroom. I'd be OK with that rule - seems fair. But the only other option is a bathroom free-for-all. Anything else is stupid.

People are whipping out a lot of statistics about how many abusers are male, but I've not seen any on how many preschool teachers are abusers (from, say, the last decade because safeguarding practices have changed a lot recently). Is it less than 1% of all preschool teachers? Is it less than 1% of all male preschool teachers? I bet it is.

Also, all of you anti-male-preschool teacher people, if your child was put in a class with a male teacher, would you write to the school saying "There is a small chance that Mr X is a paedophile so a I would like my child to be transferred to a different class"?

[Cassie]

Preschools are a business and we pay for that. I would have my child moved to a different class or move them to a different preschool. There is a lot of competition here for clients.

[jrhampt]

I think it's important for us as a society to get used to seeing men taking care of small children, just as women do.  This applies to both the workplace and the home.  As a woman, I think women could only benefit from this.

[Mika M]

I would be fine with it. Personally I would love to see more gender diversity among early childhood educators. Some people might worry about male teachers for very young children, yes, but I'd like to see that barrier broken down more.

Men certainly don't have a monopoly on things like abuse and molestation cases. I've seen news stories and even whole books written about female teachers and caregivers abusing kids.

Sadly group-think will keep most people believing whatever they're set on believing (e.g. a male interested in working as an early childhood educator must be a child-molester).

But I say go for it if you really want to, esp if you can find a school/neighborhood that wouldn't feel too awkward about it.

[randymarsh]

I think it's important for us as a society to get used to seeing men taking care of small children, just as women do.  This applies to both the workplace and the home.  As a woman, I think women could only benefit from this.

It's the only way anything resembling true equality will ever work. The focus on women's equality has been "We need to have women be CEOs, Senators, Doctors, etc".

But that doesn't change that these positions are still seen as "male". And because of the male childcare stigma, you end up with A) Women in high level jobs also doing most of childcare when they're not at work and B) Men feeling like they aren't contributing if they don't have a great job.

Women have succeeded greatly in entering the workforce. Men have not succeeded in entering the home.

[Gin1984]

I think it's important for us as a society to get used to seeing men taking care of small children, just as women do.  This applies to both the workplace and the home.  As a woman, I think women could only benefit from this.

It's the only way anything resembling true equality will ever work. The focus on women's equality has been "We need to have women be CEOs, Senators, Doctors, etc".

But that doesn't change that these positions are still seen as "male". And because of the male childcare stigma, you end up with A) Women in high level jobs also doing most of childcare when they're not at work and B) Men feeling like they aren't contributing if they don't have a great job.

Women have succeeded greatly in entering the workforce. Men have not succeeded in entering the home.

I agree with you both.

[onlykelsey]

x1000.

A woman trying to do a "man's job" gets a LOT less shit than a man trying to do a woman's.  Extends to all spheres, including clothing.  Obviously we had outrage when women began wearing pants, but it's been accepted for nearly a century.  Not so much the other way around.

A transgender friend of mine (MtF) comments on this all the time.  People apparently question MtF folks a LOT more than FtM.  Her theory is that implicitly people understand why you'd want to get the benefits of being a man.  Why move to the lower status of a woman?

[shelivesthedream]

Preschools are a business and we pay for that. I would have my child moved to a different class or move them to a different preschool. There is a lot of competition here for clients.

But what reason would you give? Would you say "because I am worried Mr X is a paedophile" or would you lie about it?

[dycker1978]

x1000.

A woman trying to do a "man's job" gets a LOT less shit than a man trying to do a woman's.  Extends to all spheres, including clothing.  Obviously we had outrage when women began wearing pants, but it's been accepted for nearly a century.  Not so much the other way around.

A transgender friend of mine (MtF) comments on this all the time.  People apparently question MtF folks a LOT more than FtM.  Her theory is that implicitly people understand why you'd want to get the benefits of being a man.  Why move to the lower status of a woman?

First Let me say that I am not challenging your directly onlykelsey.  I do not believe that your view, nor your friends is wrong.  I believe this is a societal view that needs to be challenged.

I think that the last part of your statement is the theory that we need to challenge in society in regards to the  transgender community.  These people are not choosing to be anything other then they are.  They were born a gender that is different then the sex assigned at birth.  They are not choosing to go up(or down) in the social status.  They are being true to themselves.

On the other side of that, we also need to break down the view that women are lower in status then a man.  If we can brake stereo types down, then society as a whole can advance.  These stereo types need to broken down in all aspects.  Such as religious views, race, sexual orientation, and gender.  Until we, as a society, can accept a woman mechanic as competent, as well as a male preschool teacher as safe, society will suffer as a whole.

[onlykelsey]

First Let me say that I am not challenging your directly onlykelsey.  I do not believe that your view, nor your friends is wrong.  I believe this is a societal view that needs to be challenged.

I think that the last part of your statement is the theory that we need to challenge in society in regards to the  transgender community.  These people are not choosing to be anything other then they are.  They were born a gender that is different then the sex assigned at birth.  They are not choosing to go up(or down) in the social status.  They are being true to themselves.

On the other side of that, we also need to break down the view that women are lower in status then a man.  If we can brake stereo types down, then society as a whole can advance.  These stereo types need to broken down in all aspects.  Such as religious views, race, sexual orientation, and gender.  Until we, as a society, can accept a woman mechanic as competent, as well as a male preschool teacher as safe, society will suffer as a whole.

You're 100% correct, I was being sloppy with words.  I didn't mean to imply that she (or anyone else) chose to be a certain gender. My friend was summarizing other peoples views of her "choices".  Neither of us thought that those were real "choices".  But I think to people outside that sphere, and even to some inside it, the higher level of bafflement at "choosing" to be a woman than "choosing" to be a man reveals something interesting.

That said, I think people can move in social status as a result of outwardly transitioning.  My friend always (tongue in cheek) says that now she gets served less spicy food at restaurants, is perceived to be bad at science, is perceived as more emotional, etc.  It's fascinating to hear form someone who has presented both ways what life is like.

[Gin1984]

x1000.

A woman trying to do a "man's job" gets a LOT less shit than a man trying to do a woman's.  Extends to all spheres, including clothing.  Obviously we had outrage when women began wearing pants, but it's been accepted for nearly a century. Not so much the other way around.

A transgender friend of mine (MtF) comments on this all the time.  People apparently question MtF folks a LOT more than FtM.  Her theory is that implicitly people understand why you'd want to get the benefits of being a man.  Why move to the lower status of a woman?

My mother was not allowed to wear pants at school less than 50 years ago, in San Francisco, a pretty liberal area in a liberal school.  Truly when I hear people talk of women's advancement often we think it happened many year before it did.

[Gracie]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

[Cassie]

I would tell them the truth that I was not comfortable with it.  Sometimes life is not fair but that is the way it is.  Many here seem to be ignoring the fact that yes some woman sexually abuse but it is mostly men and you can't undo the damage. As a SW that has worked with these kids I saw lives ruined.  I am not saying men can't teach-I say teach K and up just not preschool.  I would have never risked my children's well being in order to be fair.  If others want to that is fine. They will live with the consequences if something occurs.  The agency I worked for also was protecting the men by not hiring them to work with abused kids because we were alone with the kids. We transported to the visits, supervised the visits and took the kids to the bathroom because the parents couldn't be trusted.  They were protecting the men's reputation as much as protecting the kids. If falsely accused by a kid even if not proven to be true their professional careers would be ruined.  These kids had already been abused at least onceand small children don't always tell the truth or get confused.

[Gin1984]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

[davisgang90]

Remember kids, being discriminatory to one race, gender etc. is stereotyping and is wrong.  Unless that gender is male and then you can say anything you want including accusing them of potentially being a pedophile with a clear conscience.  The pretzel-logic required for this mindset truly boggles my mind.

[dycker1978]

Remember kids, being discriminatory to one race, gender etc. is stereotyping and is wrong.  Unless that gender is male and then you can say anything you want including accusing them of potentially being a pedophile with a clear conscience.  The pretzel-logic required for this mindset truly boggles my mind.

This mindset is also harmful and unhelpful.  All stereo typing is wrong and needs to be stopped.  To say that it is not socially acceptable to stereotype other groups is false.  Even the fore runner of one of the political parties in the  USA did against an entire country(or three) with out any major backlash.  Several publicly bash gay equality and transgender rights.

If you think that bashing CIS males(had to include CIS and Trans* males are routinely bashed) is the only group that get discriminated against you are wrong.  I suspect it is because you are a CIS male and you feel the pain.

For cripe sakes it is legal to fire a transgender person in more than 1/2 of the US states, for no other reason than being transgender.  Here in Canada, it is somewhat better for transgender people, but they are not even protected completely under the Canadian human rights code.  Not sure how that is not considered saying anything you want.

[davisgang90]

Remember kids, being discriminatory to one race, gender etc. is stereotyping and is wrong.  Unless that gender is male and then you can say anything you want including accusing them of potentially being a pedophile with a clear conscience.  The pretzel-logic required for this mindset truly boggles my mind.

This mindset is also harmful and unhelpful.  All stereo typing is wrong and needs to be stopped.  To say that it is not socially acceptable to stereotype other groups is false.  Even the fore runner of one of the political parties in the  USA did against an entire country(or three) with out any major backlash.  Several publicly bash gay equality and transgender rights.

If you think that bashing CIS males(had to include CIS and Trans* males are routinely bashed) is the only group that get discriminated against you are wrong.  I suspect it is because you are a CIS male and you feel the pain.

For cripe sakes it is legal to fire a transgender person in more than 1/2 of the US states, for no other reason than being transgender.  Here in Canada, it is somewhat better for transgender people, but they are not even protected completely under the Canadian human rights code.  Not sure how that is not considered saying anything you want.

Nobody said CIS males.  I just said males.  You can try to make this about something else, but what we have is several people who say it is absolutely OK to discriminate against men based only on gender on the off chance they might be a pedophile. 

[dycker1978]

Remember kids, being discriminatory to one race, gender etc. is stereotyping and is wrong.  Unless that gender is male and then you can say anything you want including accusing them of potentially being a pedophile with a clear conscience.  The pretzel-logic required for this mindset truly boggles my mind.

This mindset is also harmful and unhelpful.  All stereo typing is wrong and needs to be stopped.  To say that it is not socially acceptable to stereotype other groups is false.  Even the fore runner of one of the political parties in the  USA did against an entire country(or three) with out any major backlash.  Several publicly bash gay equality and transgender rights.

If you think that bashing CIS males(had to include CIS and Trans* males are routinely bashed) is the only group that get discriminated against you are wrong.  I suspect it is because you are a CIS male and you feel the pain.

For cripe sakes it is legal to fire a transgender person in more than 1/2 of the US states, for no other reason than being transgender.  Here in Canada, it is somewhat better for transgender people, but they are not even protected completely under the Canadian human rights code.  Not sure how that is not considered saying anything you want.

Nobody said CIS males.  I just said males.  You can try to make this about something else, but what we have is several people who say it is absolutely OK to discriminate against men based only on gender on the off chance they might be a pedophile.

But Trans* males are discriminated against openly.  They can get fired for being how they are.  CIS males do not need to face this?  How is a candidate coming out and saying that a whole of a certain country are rapists not being accepted discriminatory? 

[davisgang90]

I think all males be they CIS or Trans should not be discriminated against.  Also, I think Trump is a moron. 

Now back to the issue at hand.  If I said women couldn't work as high school teachers because most prostitutes are female therefore women shouldn't be around teenage boys, people would think me crazy.  But if we say most pedophiles are men so men shouldn't be allowed to teach young children, that is deemed an acceptable position to hold.

[dycker1978]

I think all males be they CIS or Trans should not be discriminated against.  Also, I think Trump is a moron. 

Now back to the issue at hand.  If I said women couldn't work as high school teachers because most prostitutes are female therefore women shouldn't be around teenage boys, people would think me crazy.  But if we say most pedophiles are men so men shouldn't be allowed to teach young children, that is deemed an acceptable position to hold.

I agree with what you are saying.  I just want to make you and everyone aware that it is not just males being discriminated against.

You are 100% correct though.  I am not sure how some people feel about other issues, but the fact that they are saying that men should not teach preschool is about as backwards and bigoted as it gets.  I would want any teacher that was teaching my child,  to be background checked extensively. 

Your example of high school teachers is a good one...

[wepner]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

Sir, we have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is that your 4 year old child was sexually abused, the good news is that the abuser was not a pedophile.

Does this help show how useless the distinction you are making is?

[GuitarStv]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

http://news.sky.com/story/1560352/utterly-depraved-female-paedophile-jailed

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583647/Female-paedophile-21-jailed-two-years-sex-eight-year-old-boy-50-times-starting-16.html

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/psychopathology-and-personality-traits-pedophiles


?

[Gin1984]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

http://news.sky.com/story/1560352/utterly-depraved-female-paedophile-jailed

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583647/Female-paedophile-21-jailed-two-years-sex-eight-year-old-boy-50-times-starting-16.html

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/psychopathology-and-personality-traits-pedophiles


?

Actually this a perfect example of what I was saying.  The first two articles are talking about child sexual abusers and calling them pedophiles even though they may not met the clinical definition.  For the third article, I'll have to check their sources because of the journal articles I know, there have not been women who met the criteria and the author states that they were using male only because there were not enough females but I need the actual research articles to tell if they again are using it correctly.  That said, as I had said earlier this was from a year ago, if I find anything that does show a female pedophile, I was correct myself here and otherwise, but according to my classes and my last check there is gender difference.

[Gin1984]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

Sir, we have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is that your 4 year old child was sexually abused, the good news is that the abuser was not a pedophile.

Does this help show how useless the distinction you are making is?

It actual is quite useful because treatment as well as certain pathologies are different between the two.  Ignoring a difference and using incorrect terminology is a problem even if you don't get why.

[wepner]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

Sir, we have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is that your 4 year old child was sexually abused, the good news is that the abuser was not a pedophile.

Does this help show how useless the distinction you are making is?

It actual is quite useful because treatment as well as certain pathologies are different between the two.  Ignoring a difference and using incorrect terminology is a problem even if you don't get why.

I appreciate that you have a nuanced view about the idea of male preschool teachers, and I generally enjoy reading your posts (I know my last post didn't convey that at all, sorry) but I found it curious that you felt the need to add on to someone's post about how not all men are pedophiles (which seems like a fair statement to me) by explaining that women are never/ can never be pedophiles. Why? What point were you trying to make? Were you just trying to entertain us by saying a thing you heard/read/studied or more likely you were bringing it up as a potential downside of male preschool teachers.

If you brought it up as a potential downside why didn't you take this opportunity to clarify, unless we are misunderstanding each other (or I'm misunderstanding you) more than I thought. What about the difference in treatment or pathologies is an important factor for preschool teachers, is this evidence better/different than simply stating that men are more likely to sexually abuse kids?

Also, what was your take on my hypothesis that you are more likely to be attacked by a white guy because you are way more likely to be around white guys? Genuinely curious.   

[Gracie]

If you study this, though, men and women can be pedophiles. The key is to inact policies under which any pedophile would have difficulty gaining access to children. Identifying Child  Molestors is a good book on the topic by a Canadian psychologist who has studied their behaviors.

Child molesters and pedophiles are not the same thing.  And, as of my last check there has not been a reported female pedophile found.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/42/4/404.full

Sir, we have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is that your 4 year old child was sexually abused, the good news is that the abuser was not a pedophile.

Does this help show how useless the distinction you are making is?

It actual is quite useful because treatment as well as certain pathologies are different between the two.  Ignoring a difference and using incorrect terminology is a problem even if you don't get why.

That is a pedantic argument, but okay, all child Molestors are pedophiles, but not all pedophiles have harmed children..but the only ones regularly identified have harmed children.   Also, you cite a legal argument. We are talking about preventing a behavior so it doesnt have the opportunity to become a legal argument. The legal definition is not important. For this prupose, no one should have the opportunity to molest a child.

Identifying Child Molestors is essentially a text book by Dr. Carla van Dam who has done extensive research into pedophilia and the behavior of molestors. She has identified female pedophiles.

There is nothing in your citation supporting zero female pedophiles.

[Cressida]

I think it's important for us as a society to get used to seeing men taking care of small children, just as women do.  This applies to both the workplace and the home.  As a woman, I think women could only benefit from this.

It's the only way anything resembling true equality will ever work. The focus on women's equality has been "We need to have women be CEOs, Senators, Doctors, etc".

But that doesn't change that these positions are still seen as "male". And because of the male childcare stigma, you end up with A) Women in high level jobs also doing most of childcare when they're not at work and B) Men feeling like they aren't contributing if they don't have a great job.

Women have succeeded greatly in entering the workforce. Men have not succeeded in entering the home.

I agree with you both.

Me too.

[dreams_and_discoveries]

Have to say, some of the opinions in this thread shocked me - it's 2016 and there is so much gender bias in the world. Why can't a man be a primary teacher? Why can a female teacher change a boy, but not a male teacher a girl?

I do have controversial opinions, that this gender bias is what causes people to identify as trans-gender - and by people changing their genders, it's also perpetuating this societal bias that genders are really different and need to be segregated as binary.

We need more male caregivers as well as female breadwinners, and we need to question the way kids are brought up conditioned into one gender, and the traits/characteristics we associate with genders and move to a gender neutral world.

My utopia would be a world where gender didn't really matter...and was treated as significant as if you prefered tea or coffee.

[jrhampt]

I do have controversial opinions, that this gender bias is what causes people to identify as trans-gender - and by people changing their genders, it's also perpetuating this societal bias that genders are really different and need to be segregated as binary.

We need more male caregivers as well as female breadwinners, and we need to question the way kids are brought up conditioned into one gender, and the traits/characteristics we associate with genders and move to a gender neutral world.

My utopia would be a world where gender didn't really matter...and was treated as significant as if you prefered tea or coffee.

Agreed on all counts.  I don't think gender should matter.  That's why I don't really "get" the trans-gender stuff. 

[shelivesthedream]

I do have controversial opinions, that this gender bias is what causes people to identify as trans-gender - and by people changing their genders, it's also perpetuating this societal bias that genders are really different and need to be segregated as binary.

I wonder about this too. Whether because we have divided the world so strongly into MALE THINGS and FEMALE THINGS people don't feel comfortable being somewhere inbetween or not caring - they feel like they have to choose to be one or the other. Childhood is so much more gendered these days than when I was growing up in the 1990s. We had stuff like Barbies for girls and Action Men for boys, and a bit more pink for girls, but I don't remember the world being completely divided. I passed down clothes to my little brother because they were just plain children's clothes in various bright colours. That would not be possible with the super-gendered children's clothing in shops today. But what is a child to do today if they don't want to wear pink and princess clothes? I was a tomboy but I was able to be that tree-climbing, armour-wearing, dragon-fighting child and still be a girl. And still enjoy sewing and knitting and cooking. I didn't feel like I was or had to be a boy because I was doing those things or had to reject those things because I was a girl. "Girl power" meant that you could be a girl and be however you wanted. Toy shops weren't labelled "Girls Section" and "Boys Section", whereas these days I think a girl wandering into the "Boys Section" would be redirected, even if she was actually looking for the toy trains. Doesn't that tell a child that because you like trains you must "really" be a boy?

(Just to clarify, I don't think transgenderism doesn't exist at all, but I do wonder if there are people who, if the world were less gendered (particularly for children), would feel happy remaining as their birth gender but acting however they wanted. Being a boy but wearing makeup or a dress sometimes, for example.)

[nobodyspecial]

sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

Regardless of what the media says, the statistics DO indicate that men are responsible for 94% of sexual abuse against girls and 86% of sexual abuse against boys.  And girls are victimized 4 times more frequently than boys, so overall men are responsible for about 92.4% of all sexual abuse.

I think similar statistics are the reason we don't let black men become police officers or join the forces - it's just too risky to let them have guns.
 

[esq]

Disclaimer:  Sorry, haven't read the entire thread.  OP, I'm glad to hear you're going to start subbing first.  It's a great way to start.  I have two thoughts:

1.  Co-teaching with an experienced female teacher once you start teaching full time is another good step in a gradual process towards running your own classroom. 

2.  As a teacher of inner-city, at-risk kids in a K-8 charter school, I can tell you these babies are STARVED for male attention (really any adult attention, but especially male).  At home is usually a mom or grandmother that hasn't always had the best life experience with men, and I have seen the effects of their hatred of men on these little ones, especially girls.  Being taught by a male teacher who models caring and compassion would go further for your entire class than any math or reading they might learn, because you as their teacher may be the only time they are exposed to that kind of person. 

Want to make a difference in the world?  Please consider working with these kids at some point in your new career. 

Best of luck to you.