Male preschool teachers

[obstinate]

My question to the forum is: would you be fine sending your kid to a male preschool teacher?  I want to know the truth about this before I start paying to take courses and doing all the things to prepare myself for a second career in this.

I would not send my son to a male preschool teacher. I might consider it if there were multiple teachers in the class, and at least one was a woman, and there were cameras everywhere I could check at any time.

[wepner]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

Yeah this kinda bothered me as well.

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen. The overwhelming majority of billionaires and astronauts are male as well but if I see a dude walking down the street I don't assume he's been in space.

[obstinate]

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen.

Statistically, a child being molested is something that is fairly likely to happen. One in five girls and one in twenty boys. It not remotely as rare as billionaires.

[Psychstache]

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen.

Statistically, a child being molested is something that is fairly likely to happen. One in five girls and one in twenty boys. It not remotely as rare as billionaires.

True, but that 8% comes from all victims of sexual assault under 18. We are talking about a specific subset of sexual abuse (young children under 5 abused by adult male authority figures for the children) which is going to be significantly lower. Not saying we should ignore it, but we need to be more realistic about what the figures actually look like for this scenario.

[randymarsh]

My question to the forum is: would you be fine sending your kid to a male preschool teacher?  I want to know the truth about this before I start paying to take courses and doing all the things to prepare myself for a second career in this.

I would not send my son to a male preschool teacher. I might consider it if there were multiple teachers in the class, and at least one was a woman, and there were cameras everywhere I could check at any time.

But what if the male teacher is also molesting the female teacher(s) along with the students?!? Now she can't even keep your child safe from the evil men!

[former player]

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen.

Statistically, a child being molested is something that is fairly likely to happen. One in five girls and one in twenty boys. It not remotely as rare as billionaires.

True, but that 8% comes from all victims of sexual assault under 18. We are talking about a specific subset of sexual abuse (young children under 5 abused by adult male authority figures for the children) which is going to be significantly lower. Not saying we should ignore it, but we need to be more realistic about what the figures actually look like for this scenario.

I had understood that most sexual abuse of children was by relatives or family friends.  Abuse by teachers is extremely rare.  All those who are hounding men out of teaching young children are not just harming their children's education and making the lives of male teachers unnecessarily difficult, but are looking in the wrong place to really protect their children.   Stupid as well as bigoted (although those two often amount to the same thing).

[aprilchem]

The daycare my kids used to go to just got a male preschool teacher and I've heard he is in great demand.  Moms in my area want their kids to have role models that are diverse, and there's little diversity in preschool and elementary education where I live - my kids have had nothing but white, female teachers, and all but one of their daycare workers has been white and female, even though we live in an area that's more than 50% black/hispanic.  I think you may be more in-demand than you think, if you are engaged and good with kids.

[justajane]

my kids have had nothing but white, female teachers, and all but one of their daycare workers has been white and female, even though we live in an area that's more than 50% black/hispanic.  I think you may be more in-demand than you think, if you are engaged and good with kids.

Yes, the students in my school district are ethnically diverse, but the teachers by and large aren't. One of the newest 2nd grade teachers is an African American female, and I know that several parents with either biracial or black children requested her.

I think people are onto to something when they say that lots and lots of parents would be attracted to a qualified and passionate male preschool teacher. Gender and racial diversity are important. We haven't even touched much having a teacher who is both male and gay (though the latter shouldn't even come up, since this should be a private matter). I wouldn't care in the slightest, but I wouldn't care if they were transgender either, as long as they taught my kids well.   

[J Boogie]

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen.

Statistically, a child being molested is something that is fairly likely to happen. One in five girls and one in twenty boys. It not remotely as rare as billionaires.

True, but that 8% comes from all victims of sexual assault under 18. We are talking about a specific subset of sexual abuse (young children under 5 abused by adult male authority figures for the children) which is going to be significantly lower. Not saying we should ignore it, but we need to be more realistic about what the figures actually look like for this scenario.

I had understood that most sexual abuse of children was by relatives or family friends.  Abuse by teachers is extremely rare.  All those who are hounding men out of teaching young children are not just harming their children's education and making the lives of male teachers unnecessarily difficult, but are looking in the wrong place to really protect their children.   Stupid as well as bigoted (although those two often amount to the same thing).

9.6%, or nearly 1 in 10 K-12 students are subjected to sexual misconduct from school personnel. 

http://edsource.org/2014/schools-failing-to-protect-students-from-sexual-abuse-by-school-personnel-federal-report-says/57023

[former player]

Also saying that men molest kids more often doesn't mean that it is at all likely to happen.

Statistically, a child being molested is something that is fairly likely to happen. One in five girls and one in twenty boys. It not remotely as rare as billionaires.

True, but that 8% comes from all victims of sexual assault under 18. We are talking about a specific subset of sexual abuse (young children under 5 abused by adult male authority figures for the children) which is going to be significantly lower. Not saying we should ignore it, but we need to be more realistic about what the figures actually look like for this scenario.

I had understood that most sexual abuse of children was by relatives or family friends.  Abuse by teachers is extremely rare.  All those who are hounding men out of teaching young children are not just harming their children's education and making the lives of male teachers unnecessarily difficult, but are looking in the wrong place to really protect their children.   Stupid as well as bigoted (although those two often amount to the same thing).

9.6%, or nearly 1 in 10 K-12 students are subjected to sexual misconduct from school personnel. 

http://edsource.org/2014/schools-failing-to-protect-students-from-sexual-abuse-by-school-personnel-federal-report-says/57023

The 10% refers to all school personnel, so it goes much wider than just teachers.

This DOJ site has 30% of abuse by family members, 60% by people known to the family and 10% by strangers -

https://www.nsopw.gov/en-GB/Education/FactsStatistics?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Statistically, anyone concerned about their children being sexually abused would do much better to prevent the children's father and other male family and friends from having any contact with the child, not a male teacher.  Children are still statistically much safer from sexual abuse at school than they are at home.

[J Boogie]

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

But your assumption is that all men attend sporting events due to the skill of the players or that entertainment value can only be gained if the players are skilled. Would it make you uncomfortable or surprise you that a woman might want to attend a kindergarten soccer game because, well, little ones kicking around a ball aimlessly can be adorable? If so, why should it be any different for a man to just find childish exuberance entertaining to watch, even if they never score and there is no real competition?

I just hate that watching children has somehow become solely the domain of perverts in public consciousness.

Well, to be honest I didn't consider the entertainment value of cute kids running around.  It wouldn't surprise me to know that you like watching cute kids run around, but I would be a little surprised to know that a man would choose to spend his time watching cute kids run around.  Why? because I've never known a man who did that or anything similar. I guess you could say I find that behavior unusual.  I have no problem with someone watching a youth soccer game, but I might keep an eye on that person until all the kids have headed home.  That's my general practice when I witness unusual behavior and there is (albeit minuscule) potential for danger.  I don't call the police or confront unless things escalate, but I make sure I'm paying attention so I can act if things DO escalate.

[charis]

The bottom line is that child abuse happens, a lot, and, sometimes at school or daycare, and most often familiar or well known people.  The perpetrators are overwhelmingly male.    It's utterly unfair that male teachers have to be subjected to the often irrational fears of parents that come as result of this type of crime.   But I can assure you, from experience, that most reported or charged incidents of child sexual abuse are not reported by the media, for some obvious reasons.   If you have ever been abused or no someone who has, and are familiar with the devastating life long effects, you will do what you can to prevent your child from becoming a statistic. 

I say this, though I am fully comfortable with the male preschool teachers that cared for my children and I fully support male teachers at every level.  But there is no shame in people expressing their fears.

[CheapskateWife]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

+1000

The whole premise that a teacher's gender would matter is disgusting.  I would think that a teacher who was fired over the idea that his gender made parents uncomfortable would have the right to sue the hell out of a private or public school for wrongful termination. 

To the OP, if teaching brings you joy, do it!  I would be thrilled to have a variety of teachers in my son's school...as it is currently only middle aged white ladies.  The classroom however is full of a wide variety of students, and if the teacher population could better reflect that diversity, I would be very pleased.  But more importantly...would you be a good teacher?  If so, go for it!

[former player]

The bottom line is that child abuse happens, a lot, and, sometimes at school or daycare, and most often familiar or well known people.  The perpetrators are overwhelmingly male.    It's utterly unfair that male teachers have to be subjected to the often irrational fears of parents that come as result of this type of crime.   But I can assure you, from experience, that most reported or charged incidents of child sexual abuse are not reported by the media, for some obvious reasons.   If you have ever been abused or no someone who has, and are familiar with the devastating life long effects, you will do what you can to prevent your child from becoming a statistic. 

I say this, though I am fully comfortable with the male preschool teachers that cared for my children and I fully support male teachers at every level.  But there is no shame in people expressing their fears.

I agree with much of what you say.  But I do think there is some harm done by expressing fears about male teachers.  Firstly, it harms the teachers themselves and makes it less likely for men to go into teaching, when there is always a shortage of good teachers - many people suffer devastating life long effects from bad teaching.  Secondly, it puts the emphasis on male teachers being potentially sexually dangerous, rather than on a school having policies, procedures and practices which minimise the possibility of any sort of abuse from any staff member - a school with male teachers and good policies and practices is quite likely to be better, and safer, than a school with all female teachers and poor practices.  And thirdly it deflects concern away from the main sources of sexual danger to children, which is family and friends  - it's like standing in the middle of a highway while looking with concern at the traffic on a minor road.

[charis]

The bottom line is that child abuse happens, a lot, and, sometimes at school or daycare, and most often familiar or well known people.  The perpetrators are overwhelmingly male.    It's utterly unfair that male teachers have to be subjected to the often irrational fears of parents that come as result of this type of crime.   But I can assure you, from experience, that most reported or charged incidents of child sexual abuse are not reported by the media, for some obvious reasons.   If you have ever been abused or no someone who has, and are familiar with the devastating life long effects, you will do what you can to prevent your child from becoming a statistic. 

I say this, though I am fully comfortable with the male preschool teachers that cared for my children and I fully support male teachers at every level.  But there is no shame in people expressing their fears.

I agree with much of what you say.  But I do think there is some harm done by expressing fears about male teachers.  Firstly, it harms the teachers themselves and makes it less likely for men to go into teaching, when there is always a shortage of good teachers - many people suffer devastating life long effects from bad teaching.  Secondly, it puts the emphasis on male teachers being potentially sexually dangerous, rather than on a school having policies, procedures and practices which minimise the possibility of any sort of abuse from any staff member - a school with male teachers and good policies and practices is quite likely to be better, and safer, than a school with all female teachers and poor practices.  And thirdly it deflects concern away from the main sources of sexual danger to children, which is family and friends  - it's like standing in the middle of a highway while looking with concern at the traffic on a minor road.

I completely agree that the emphasis should be on policies and procedures that eliminate, to the extent possible, the potential for abuse.  And to be vigilant people do need to accept that abuse happens much more often in families than anywhere else.  But pooh-poohing the idea that people have no cause to be concerned about a male individual having possibly unsupervised access to their children, to the point of being called bigoted, is also fairly ignorant and deflective.

[FIREdancer]

If it is something you really want to do and you think you would enjoy, I think you should do it regardless of the gender stereotype that may or may not exist.  If every woman didn't do what they wanted to do because "it's a man's job" we probably never would have female doctors, construction workers, etc.  If someone doesn't do it, things will never change.

I also agree with some of the other suggestions of having a female co-teacher.  Unfortunately stereotypes don't change overnight, but small changes are good.

I work in a public library and for the longest time we only had female children's librarians, but for the past couple years we had a male children's librarian, and people love it.  They like having a different perspective and a male role model for kids that might not have a male role model in their lives.

If some people don't like it, they just won't put their kids in your class.  No big deal.  Different things work for different people, but you'll never know unless you try it.

I also understand that you don't want to invest the time and money into become a preschool teacher if it is not going to work out.  So my other thought is that you could just go for being a pre-k classroom helper/assistant.  For that you wouldn't really need any additional training depending on the requirements where you live.  Try that out and then go from there.  This would let you know if you really do like it as much as you think you would and also how other people will respond to a male influence in the pre-K classroom.

[randymarsh]

I say this, though I am fully comfortable with the male preschool teachers that cared for my children and I fully support male teachers at every level.  But there is no shame in people expressing their fears.

There actually should be shame though. Expressing those "fears" lends credibility that men are going to screw your kids the second you turn around. 

It's not OK anymore to be discriminatory against women, blacks, gays, etc. But men are stuck as society's punching bag for anything & everything that goes wrong.

[former player]

I do think people who would not accept any male teacher for their young child, and the people who would hound a male teacher out of his job simply for being male, are being bigoted and stupid.

Do people have cause to be concerned about a male individual having possibly unsupervised access to their children?  Quite possibly.  But they probably have much less cause to be concerned about a male teacher in a well-run school with appropriate policies and supervision than they do about their children's fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles and family friends, who are far less likely to have had appropriate vetting and far more likely to have unsupervised access to their children for longer periods of time.

[J Boogie]

Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

To respond to this and a couple other comments that made a similar argument, I'd like to point out a few things.

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.  There is nothing about having dark skin that makes a person more dangerous than anyone else.

- In the US at least, I believe we have a shared obligation to do our part in trying to make this country a better place to live for black people.  Our economy was boosted by the free labor of their ancestors, and while my ancestors grew in economic stability, theirs had little to no rights under the law.  For this reason I would not advocate that people look to skin color as an indicator of danger; rather I would look for other indicators that correlate to violent behavior.  For instance, I would encourage people not to spend time in neighborhoods that have high crime rates, or be cautious around people who have tattoos on their face.

- Your assertion about black people being more likely to kill my kid is not true.  A white person is actually more likely to be killed by another white person than a black person.  84% of white victims were killed by whites. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide

Finally, why are we worried about gender bias against men? I suspect we all mostly believe men in general will not have a problem achieving their career aspirations. 

It seems many here are interested in doing away with traditional gender norms - as you can probably guess, I'm not in favor of that.  I think flattening our gender differences in the name of equality comes at the detriment of our common good.  In this case, that common good is the safety of our children.  In the case of lowering the rigor of the physical requirement test for female firefighters, we sacrifice the safety of those who pass out in burning buildings. 

I encourage the OP to teach preschool.  I welcome any passionate and qualified person to a career of their choice, and quite refreshing when their choice is unusual for their gender.  But I am against a general push to achieve a perfect gender balance in every field.  It seems to be a goal without a clear benefit, and especially problematic when it involves pushing girls in directions they don't want to go.

[GuitarStv]

There are about thirty early childhood educators at my son's daycare.  0 are male.  I never really thought about it before, but yeah . . . as a guy I would naturally steer myself away from seeking out that type of job because of sexual assault related prejudices.

[GuitarStv]

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.

What makes a man an inherently more gruesome abuser of children than a woman?

[Macrolide]

When I was a social worker working with abused kids we had to take them to the bathroom and help them ,etc and our agency never hired a male because of the fear of accusations by the kids. I wouldn't mind a male elementary teacher for my kids because they don't need help with the bathroom by that age but would not want a male pre-school teacher helping my little daughter in the bathroom. My kids are long grown so I am thinking to what Iould have done in the past.

False accusations are a real concern. With four-year-olds the line between fact and imagination is blurry, and you may never know if they are telling the truth. I'm talking about good kids, who may say off the wall things with no intention of getting someone in trouble and no understanding of the implications of what they claim. If it's not the school's policy, make it your own that you are never alone with kids in the bathroom or anywhere else.

I won't go into detail, but my daughter at this age made an accusation against a boy in her class. I've seen this boy be very aggressive and run into the girls bathroom before. We got her checked out at the hospital and child services investigated the daycare. I honestly still don't know if anything really occurred - maybe when she is older she will be able to confirm what happened. For now, I believe her and we immediately took her out of that school. Doing nothing would have been far worse. My point is, just don't ever put yourself in a position where there could be any weight to an accusation like that.

[use2betrix]

This is clearly a topic that needs to receive more publicity. Everything is all about minorities or women's rights, but I'm BEYOND happy to see that it isn't just me that feels like there is a negative connotation about men and young children.

I don't know that I've ever spoken to anyone about it, but that moment when the neighbor kids are playing in your yard and their parents see you talk to them and say something to their kids it really gives the feeling they may think you're a predator and it's a total shit feeling to have. And clearly, this thread reinforces that feeling. I'm a 27 young married male, I'm well groomed, dress nice, fit and athletic and there's absolutely nothing creepy about me at all (that I see.) it's not like I'd go ask them to play, but when they approach me or are playing in front of my door and I'm walking inside I'm not going to just rudely ignore them or whatever.

Would love to see if there's articles about this.

[onlykelsey]

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.

What makes a man an inherently more gruesome abuser of children than a woman?

For older children, the size/strength differential could be greater.  But for 2 year olds, it seems like both men and women are effectively infinitely more powerful and large.  I guess in theory men would be able to inflict more damage, be more threatening in covering things up, and restrain a victim more easily.

That's a more compelling argument for 5 or 10 year olds, though.

[J Boogie]

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.

What makes a man an inherently more gruesome abuser of children than a woman?

For older children, the size/strength differential could be greater.  But for 2 year olds, it seems like both men and women are effectively infinitely more powerful and large.  I guess in theory men would be able to inflict more damage, be more threatening in covering things up, and restrain a victim more easily.

That's a more compelling argument for 5 or 10 year olds, though.

I wasn't very clear as I hoped to err on the side of decorum.  I was referring to penetration.

For protective parents dropping their kids off, knowing they're with women can at least reassure them THAT won't happen.

[charis]

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.

What makes a man an inherently more gruesome abuser of children than a woman?

For older children, the size/strength differential could be greater.  But for 2 year olds, it seems like both men and women are effectively infinitely more powerful and large.  I guess in theory men would be able to inflict more damage, be more threatening in covering things up, and restrain a victim more easily.

That's a more compelling argument for 5 or 10 year olds, though.

I wasn't very clear as I hoped to err on the side of decorum.  I was referring to penetration.

For protective parents dropping their kids off, knowing they're with women can at least reassure them THAT won't happen.

This is inaccurate.  You may want to review the penal code in your jurisdiction for the elements of such offenses, since I doubt anyone will want to discuss it here.  I think this thread has gone too far afield the original post.

[MicroRN]

I would be perfectly fine with a male preschool teacher.  I'd be ok with a male nanny too, as long as they passed the same metrics as a female nanny - clean background check, multiple excellent references, and a good gut feeling from me.

I've also seen several male OB/GYNs, worked with male nurses, and male CNAs.  We often have female patients who don't want male nurses/CNAs, but the ones I have worked with have been extremely professional - and they often have to provide very personal care.  My son has a male therapist that sees him alone on a regular basis.  I pay attention to how my kids behave around people and exercise normal caution, but I can't live my life terrified that something's going to happen to them. 

My husband has realized how men and women are treated totally differently when it comes to kids.  He's an extremely devoted father, and loves kids more than I do.  Sometimes he'll comment to someone on what a cute kid they have - he's learned when he's on his own, he'll get suspicious looks so he just keeps it to himself now.  Even smiling back at a kid who waves at him can get him the look.  If he's with our kids, it's fine.  I can comment on anyone's kid, and no one gets concerned.               

[obstinate]

But what if the male teacher is also molesting the female teacher(s) along with the students?!? Now she can't even keep your child safe from the evil men!

The scenario you described is far less likely. Not sure if expected only positive responses or trolling. It beggars belief that you would be surprised that someone holds my view. It is the most common one among the public.

To your earlier question about whether I'd be OK discriminating against black people on the same basis. Of course not. Black people are an oppressed group. Additionally, in the case of Black people, the differential risk is nowhere near as high, especially if you start controlling for things like socioeconomic background.

I would be concerned if my actions were perpetuating injustice against an oppressed group. Fortunately, men are not an oppressed group (if anything, they are quite the opposite), and I have zero problem discriminating against them when my family's safety is on the line.

[justajane]

- A significant part of my argument is that men aren't just more likely to abuse than women, they're also able to abuse in a gruesome way that women are not.

What makes a man an inherently more gruesome abuser of children than a woman?

For older children, the size/strength differential could be greater.  But for 2 year olds, it seems like both men and women are effectively infinitely more powerful and large.  I guess in theory men would be able to inflict more damage, be more threatening in covering things up, and restrain a victim more easily.

That's a more compelling argument for 5 or 10 year olds, though.

I wasn't very clear as I hoped to err on the side of decorum.  I was referring to penetration.

For protective parents dropping their kids off, knowing they're with women can at least reassure them THAT won't happen.

This is inaccurate.  You may want to review the penal code in your jurisdiction for the elements of such offenses, since I doubt anyone will want to discuss it here.  I think this thread has gone too far afield the original post.

Yes, I agree. Female predators can exact just as much physical and psychological damage on children as male predators can. I also will not specify here, but it shouldn't take that much time for you to figure out how. The case of Melissa Huckaby -- a twenty something Sunday School teacher nonetheless -- comes to mind.

[davisgang90]

My oldest had a male teacher for first grade.  I was deployed at the time and my wife was very happy for my son to have a strong role model while I was gone.

Not sure where the people who assume any man who would want to work with kids must be a molester are coming from but it is ridiculous and offensive.

[Cassie]

Having a male elementary teacher is entirely different then having a male preschool teacher.  The first is fine the 2nd one not so much.  Accusing people of being discriminatory when males are the majority of the molesters is not fair.  It is reality that we have to live with. When that changes then fine -men can do that job.   

[CheapskateWife]

Having a male Arab elementary teacher flight attendant is entirely different then having a male Arab preschool teacher pilot.  The first is fine the 2nd one not so much.  Accusing people of being discriminatory when males Arabs are the majority of the molesters terrorists is not fair.  It is reality that we have to live with. When that changes then fine -men Arabs can do that job.

FIFY - still feel good about this statement?

[Sailor Sam]

Having a male elementary teacher is entirely different then having a male preschool teacher.  The first is fine the 2nd one not so much.  Accusing people of being discriminatory when males are the majority of the molesters is not fair.  It is reality that we have to live with. When that changes then fine -men can do that job.

I truly don't understand why, and the stance seems like one that should be robustly challenged. The baseline of the argument seems to be:

1. Penises are capable of abusing children
2. Therefore all penis owners should be kept away from young children, and watched carefully.

It doesn't make any sense to me. As several people have pointed out before, the bias seems to falls under the exact same umbrella as saying black folks are dangerous, and gay folks are perverted. Can you explain to me how barring men from early childhood education is different?

[davisgang90]

Having a male elementary teacher is entirely different then having a male preschool teacher.  The first is fine the 2nd one not so much.  Accusing people of being discriminatory when males are the majority of the molesters is not fair.  It is reality that we have to live with. When that changes then fine -men can do that job.

A couple questions:

How is men in elementary school entirely different from pre-k? 

Blacks commit more crimes then whites, should we limit black people to only certain jobs?  Why or why not?

Women have the plumbing to be prostitutes, should we limit their job opportunities to ensure they don't join the oldest profession?

Do you think men should be legally barred from holding positions in early education?

[charis]

It doesn't make any sense to me. As several people have pointed out before, the bias seems to falls under the exact same umbrella as saying black folks are dangerous, and gay folks are perverted. Can you explain to me how barring men from early childhood education is different?

Blacks commit more crimes then whites, should we limit black people to only certain jobs?  Why or why not?

Women have the plumbing to be prostitutes, should we limit their job opportunities to ensure they don't join the oldest profession?

Do you think men should be legally barred from holding positions in early education?

Barring men from early childhood education is discriminatory.  But stating that male individuals are by and large the perpetrators of sexual abuse against children is statistically accurate, while stating that black people are dangerous and gay folks are perverted is not.  So that argument doesn't hold up.  And the women/prostitute analogy makes no sense.   I think only one person on this thread has tried to argue that men shouldn't be preschool teachers.  Is it helpful to get hung up on one outlier?

[davisgang90]

I've found getting hung up on people with whom I agree doesn't make much sense.

[Cassie]

I was a social worker working with abused kids and those kids are scarred for life.  Guess how many were sexually abused by a woman?  ZERO!!!

[randymarsh]

It beggars belief that you would be surprised that someone holds my view. It is the most common one among the public.

That's the problem! Common ≠ right.

[randymarsh]

Finally, why are we worried about gender bias against men? I suspect we all mostly believe men in general will not have a problem achieving their career aspirations. 

Because if gender bias is bad for women, it's bad for men too. The fact that this thread exists is proof that men do have problems with some career aspirations.

[randymarsh]

I was a social worker working with abused kids and those kids are scarred for life.  Guess how many were sexually abused by a woman?  ZERO!!!

Oh, well in that case it's settled!

[Cassie]

I am not saying that woman never sexually abuse but it is extremely rare.

[onlykelsey]

I am really floating off topic at this point, but this thread explains some really strange experiences I've had as a woman in my 20s in NYC. 

Every few months, I will be walking to the subway, or in a doctor's waiting room, and a total stranger (always a woman, and not always my race or age or apparent class) will ask me to hold her kid for a moment, or stand with the stroller while she parks the car, or hold the infant while she dresses her four year old, etc.

I have no intention of harming or kidnapping these kids, obviously, and I don't know what it's like to be raising several kids in Manhattan (especially without a nanny, etc), but I'm always sort of amazed how much they trust me.  It seems like women get a lot of trust placed in them.

[bacchi]

Barring men from early childhood education is discriminatory.  But stating that male individuals are by and large the perpetrators of sexual abuse against children is statistically accurate, while stating that black people are dangerous and gay folks are perverted is not.

It is statistically accurate, however, to state that black people committed almost 38% of murders in the US. Since black people are only 13% of the population...well, it's why I refuse to go anywhere near black people. It just increases the odds of being harmed. I also don't go near Arab looking people because they're far more likely to be terrorists, as someone stated above.

Hey, don't hate on me! I'm just keeping myself safe and I don't want to become an "experiment" in "political correctness."

[onlykelsey]

Imagine if women followed that logic with men.  There would be literally no heterosexual sex or pregnancy happening.

[bacchi]

Imagine if women followed that logic with men.  There would be literally no heterosexual sex or pregnancy happening.

Yeah, totally. Now imagine if we followed that logic with preschool teachers. There would be very few male preschool teachers.

[wepner]

To your earlier question about whether I'd be OK discriminating against black people on the same basis. Of course not. Black people are an oppressed group. Additionally, in the case of Black people, the differential risk is nowhere near as high, especially if you start controlling for things like socioeconomic background.

I would be concerned if my actions were perpetuating injustice against an oppressed group. Fortunately, men are not an oppressed group (if anything, they are quite the opposite), and I have zero problem discriminating against them when my family's safety is on the line.

This is really an astounding post, so the worst case scenario for you would be to discriminate against a member of an oppressed group of people, the 2nd worse would be increasing the risk of danger to you and your family and the most preferable would be discriminating against all men.

[ahoy]

Yes, I would send my two girls to a male preschool teacher.  I work on the assumption that you have to have faith in people, not everybody is a criminal/pedophile.  I truly believe that most people are good...

[davisgang90]

To your earlier question about whether I'd be OK discriminating against black people on the same basis. Of course not. Black people are an oppressed group. Additionally, in the case of Black people, the differential risk is nowhere near as high, especially if you start controlling for things like socioeconomic background.

I would be concerned if my actions were perpetuating injustice against an oppressed group. Fortunately, men are not an oppressed group (if anything, they are quite the opposite), and I have zero problem discriminating against them when my family's safety is on the line.

What about black men, should they be able to be preschool teachers since they are an oppressed group?

[ender]

This is clearly a topic that needs to receive more publicity. Everything is all about minorities or women's rights, but I'm BEYOND happy to see that it isn't just me that feels like there is a negative connotation about men and young children.

I don't know that I've ever spoken to anyone about it, but that moment when the neighbor kids are playing in your yard and their parents see you talk to them and say something to their kids it really gives the feeling they may think you're a predator and it's a total shit feeling to have. And clearly, this thread reinforces that feeling. I'm a 27 young married male, I'm well groomed, dress nice, fit and athletic and there's absolutely nothing creepy about me at all (that I see.) it's not like I'd go ask them to play, but when they approach me or are playing in front of my door and I'm walking inside I'm not going to just rudely ignore them or whatever.

Would love to see if there's articles about this.

This thread has also given me a lot of insight, too.

[justajane]

This is clearly a topic that needs to receive more publicity. Everything is all about minorities or women's rights, but I'm BEYOND happy to see that it isn't just me that feels like there is a negative connotation about men and young children.

I don't know that I've ever spoken to anyone about it, but that moment when the neighbor kids are playing in your yard and their parents see you talk to them and say something to their kids it really gives the feeling they may think you're a predator and it's a total shit feeling to have. And clearly, this thread reinforces that feeling. I'm a 27 young married male, I'm well groomed, dress nice, fit and athletic and there's absolutely nothing creepy about me at all (that I see.) it's not like I'd go ask them to play, but when they approach me or are playing in front of my door and I'm walking inside I'm not going to just rudely ignore them or whatever.

Would love to see if there's articles about this.

This thread has also given me a lot of insight, too.

Yeah, I was at the dollar store last night with my five year old and noticed the 50-something male checkout worker looking and smiling at my son. It made me think of this whole conversation. When he started checking us out, I learned from him that he was nostalgic about the Pokemon cards that my son was buying, since his own, now grown boys, used to collect them as well. But I imagine some people might think he was being inappropriate or weird by staring at my son and smiling. How unfortunate, especially since the affectionate reaction of an older female dollar store worker would never be questioned.

It stinks, I tell ya.