The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: freeazabird on October 17, 2014, 01:16:26 AM
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I 'm considering adhering to a paleo diet to help fight some autoimmune issues I'm having. Anyone have experience with this? If you eat a paleo diet can you tell me what a typical day meal wise looks like for you? Thanks.
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I eat primal[ish] i.e. paleo with dairy, mainly for weight issues. I started properly a couple of months ago and it is tough, I'm not going to lie, but I feel so much better and have lost 8bs so far. Disclaimer: I've fallen off the wagon a couple of times which is why I say it's tough and why I haven't lost more but I'm still working at it and I figure this is a way of life, not a diet - I've changed my lifestyle to ensure I sleep lots and walk lots.
Anyway, I spend £30 a week on food/household/toiletries and since I've eliminated convenience foods this is do-able. I shop at Lidl mostly. Meals tend to be the same a few nights a week and I batch cook lunches so I tend to eat the same thing for lunch. Examples:
Breakfasts
Bacon, egg, mushrooms, tomatoes/ham, cheese, hardboiled egg, avocado/veg and meat [sausage, ham] frittata/smoothie
Lunches
Huge salads in the summer topped with protein - chicken caesar, salmon caesar, prawns in thousand island, tuna mayo/winter tends to be soups/curry/bolognese/chilli/stroganoff.
Dinner
Pretty much protein and veg, with the occasional sweet potatp [baked, wedges, mashed] e.g. lamb chops and cauliflower cheese/pork chop and cabbage/chicken breast and sauteed mixed veggies/fish fillet and sauteed mixed veggies. Nothing complicated and it's usually on the table within 20-30 minutes [I do NOT use a microwave as I don't believe they are good for you].
Breakfast is the hardest for me - I like toast or cereal and it's easier but I definitely feel fuller for longer eating protein. The food is tasty and filling and I just feel better.
So, I tend to buy eggs, meat/fish and veggies - frozen and fresh, dairy and olive and coconut oils. I use spices and dried herbs for flavour but have been known to biuy ready made sauces in a pinch.
Hope that helps!
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Check out marksdailyapple.com for the best, most reasonable take on paleo (in my opinion). I don't have much to add as far as meals go. It might be tough for the first couple transition weeks. It's normal to feel pretty foggy in that period, but after weathering the storm you absolutely will not regret it. Obviously I can't guarantee autoimmune improvement, but I think it's your best shot. I think you'll also gain a new perspective on hunger and energy, which is honestly amazing. Good luck!!
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I eat "low-carb" not paleo. For me the biggest difference between the 2 is that I am fine with dairy and see no reason to stop eating/drinking it. When I went low-carb, my GERD went away (no more Nexium!), my achy joints felt a lot better. My blood work improved (triglycerides went way down, uric acid went down, HDL/LDL ratio improved, CRP went down). When I eliminated grains (totally) I was even better. I haven't lost much weight on this diet, but my health is definitely better.
I eat lots of vegetables (mostly the non-starchy ones, but some squash), some fruits (except starchy ones like bananas), meat, dairy, eggs.
Breakfast: eggs, bacon/sausages, omelets, smoothies
Lunch - usually planned-overs from dinner, maybe brie on gluten-free crackers (I check labels, some gluten-free still has wheat/rye/rice)
Dinner - some meat, lots of vegetables with butter, maybe a few slices of sweet potatoes (drizzled with olive oil, sprinkled with Herbes de Provence, roasted in the oven, yummy), maybe some berries for dessert with a bit of heavy cream, maybe a glass of wine, or sherry before, or liqueur after.
Beverages - coffee, black and green tea, lemon water (cold in summer, hot in winter), hot chocolate (winter), wine, wine coolers (in small amounts because of the sugar).
What I don't eat: potatoes (too much starch for me), wheat, rye, oats, rice, margarine, more than a tsp. of sugar, most vegetable oils (soy, sunflower, canola, etc.)
What I eat rarely: sweet potatoes, wild rice, a bit of honey or maple syrup for flavouring, snacks (because I don't get hungry between meals, these foods are satiating)
What I eat more of than I should : chocolate
There are good cook-books out there and eating this way can be delicious. Plus once the normal large amounts of sugar are gone, I find I appreciate the natural sweetness in foods more, I don't need added sugar.
Hope this helps.
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In the long term it didn't work for me (my preferred diet is heavy in whole grains) but being on a very restricted form of it and reintroducing foods helped me find the foods that were my triggers for sinus and allergy issues.
Turns out I had a peanut sensitivity and I needed to scale my dairy intake waaaaay back. And weirdly enough, cabbage makes me violently ill (but only when cooked).
I'll +1 the Mark's Daily Apple recommendation. Did seem to be the best grounded site. Lots of terrible dietary advice out there.
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Another vote here for Marks Daily Apple.
I eat primal but with dairy. Breakfast is an omelet with cheese and salsa, and dinner is meat or fish and veggies or salad, or sometimes just a big ol salad. Since I still eat dairy I top my salads with cottage cheese instead of dressing. Since going Primal I usually only eat twice a day, but if I go want a lunch it's usually a salad (and then meat & veggies for dinner), follow dinner up with a piece of fruit for desert most nights too. I also keep a bag of almonds and some fruit handy for snacks.
The transition can be difficult (carb cravings) but I got through it by allowing myself to eat as much as I wanted as long as it was "primal" foods. After a couple weeks my body adjusted and my appetite decreased (that's when I went to 2 meals most days instead of 3). I fell off and went back to eating junk for a while and gained 20some pounds back (originally lost about 40), but went back to eating primal about a month ago and have already lost over 10 of it :)
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We base our diet on Paleo principals. Probably around 80% of our meals are 100% paleo ("50% of the time it works every time", lawl), the other 20% are reasonable non-paleo foods that still fit our macros.
Typical weekday (mostly meal-preped on weekend):
Breakfast: Coffee
Lunch: Something we prepared during the weekend, typically meat and veggies. Steak and sweet potato. Butternut squash lasagna (with coconut milk and tomato sauce, ground beef as filling). Texas chili (no beans) with spinach cooked in. Baked chicken and squash. Spaghetti with zucchini noodles. Lots of options here.
Snacks: Not always, but can include pouch tuna, protein powder, banana, boiled eggs, etc.
Dinner: More stuff typically prepared during weekend, but sometimes we make some stove-top steak or fresh stuff, add salads for fiber, etc. Since lunch is always premade and packed, we use dinner to round out our macros (We do 30% protein, 30% carb, and 40% fat)
Typical weekend is meal-prep time. We sometimes have omelettes on weekends since we have time to make breakfast. See link in signature for more recipes from us.
Other information on how we do it:
Alcohol: As long as it fits our macros, we mostly stick to wine and clear liquors, but will occationally splurge on good microbrews.
Beans: Sprouted and cooked well, I keep some in the fridge at all times and use them to add carbs when I need to.
Corn: as long as it's been soaked in lime water; we make chips at home on occation by cutting up corn tortillas, brushing with coconut oil, salting, and baking at 450 F for 12 minutes.
Dairy: Just butter and occational hard cheeses, neither of us do well with milk. Lactase enzymes if there's a lot.
Wheat: As a treat, it's gotta be really good because it causes us gastronomic distress.
Most important things to avoid:
Wheat and gluten-containing grains
Seed oils high in polyunsaturated fatty acids, such as vegetable oil (mostly Omega 6)
Non-traditionally prepared legumes (beans need to be sprouted)
If you have any questions feel free to ask em, done a lot of research on the topic.
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i've had stomach issues my whole life but in the last few years it's gotten worse. i've been taking antibiotics a lot for lymes disease so i figured that was mostly the problem. at the beginning of this year i thought i would try a vegetarian diet to see if it would help my stomach. it worked great at first but as the months went by i was losing weight and feeling worse. i had heard it takes a while for your gut to adapt to all the new fiber so i toughed it out. so finally two months ago i was feeling like crap all the time so my doctor ran some food allergy tests on me. not surprisingly i've got a gluten issue and a dairy issue along with a host of other food sensitivities (i haven't seen the full list yet). i guess doing the meatless thing had me eating more dairy and bread which just compounded the problem. the doctor suggested a more paleo type diet. in the last week i've cut back a lot on dairy and gluten and i've had some beef and chicken. my stomach feels noticeably better. once i get the full list i can really start researching what i can and can't have. i guess i need to find a place to get sustainable raised chicken, pork and beef.
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I've been eating autoimmune paleo on and off for about two years. I'm currently off, in that I reintroduced eggs, nightshades, dairy and nuts in the last two weeks. It's taken about that long for autoimmune symptoms to come back, I'm not sure which food groups are contributory, so I'm going to go back to strict AIP next week.
Typical AIP Breakfasts
-Green smoothies - frozen bananas, frozen berries, avocado, greens, flavorings (lemon juice or ginger), collagen. Base can be water, kombucha, beet kvass - whatever I have on hand
-Homemade sausage patties + side of sauerkraut, sauteed veg, fruit
-Pumpkin porridge - I roast a kabocha squash, puree and cook with coconut milk and spices. You can add in all sorts of things, like raisins, a little maple syrup or honey, tahini if you can eat seeds. I used to add cauliflower rice or shredded coconut for more of an oatmeal-like texture, but honestly I prefer it plain.
-Ground beef hash - with sweet potatoes, spinach, mushrooms - whatever i have on hand
-Fish cakes - canned fish, sweet potatoes as a binder since I can 't use eggs.
-Leftovers
Typical lunch/dinners
-Nori wrapped smoked salmon, avocado and cucumbers
Salmon salad ( I don't like tuna)
Other type of salad with some meat
Sardine dip - puree avocado, olives, artichokes, herbs. Stir in mashed sardines. Serve with plantain flatbread
Chow mein zoodles
Soups of all kinds
Meatballs
Burgers - I use plantain or yuca bread.
Baked chicken - herbs, citrus for flavor
Crockpot meals like carnitas or shredded beef
Baked salmon
Any type of meat dish above stuffed into a starchy dough and baked or fried. E.g., AIP versions of empanadas, pierogies, taquitos, shepherd's pie, pizza
Side dishes to include mashed cauliflower, cauliflower rice, gnocchi, roasted vegetables, plantain crackers
Typical snacks
Rarely: plantain chips or crackers, nori sheets, trail mix (e.g., coconut flakes, sunflower seeds, dried fruit and dark chocolate chips). Note that some people don't recommend chocolate on an autoimmune protocol.
Typical desserts
Sorbet, popsicles, hot chocolate made with coconut milk; chocolate-avocado or chia + berry pudding; gelatin gummies; more rarely caramelized bananas with coconut cream; banana pudding with tapioca pearls and coconut milk;
In comparison, my non AIP menu today: moussaka (aka, nightshade, nightshade, eggs, dairy); pumpkin porridge (thickened with sweet rice flour); baked salmon with asparagus; plantain blondie with heath bar chips (nuts, dairy, soy, added sugar)
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I'm on Day 40 of the Whole30--I'm technically done tomorrow since I'm not reintroducing gluten. It's sometimes hard to eat out on a whim, but it's do-able if you plan ahead. I plan on staying mostly-paleo for the near future, maybe something like 5 days "on", two days "off". (I want to at least try having a drink or two on the weekends, maybe with cheese or some other non-paleo food that I'll still avoid during the week.) I haven't fully decided how far to go long-term, but I genuinely like the paleo diet and I love cooking, not to mention 2/3 of my family has Celiac disease, so there are a lot of things pointing me in that direction.
The thing I learned about halfway through the Whole30 is that paleo is not really that hard to pull off if you "go it alone," but peer pressure and social expectations can really make it seem like a burden. I'd imagine travel makes it difficult too. Once you get used to processed foods pretty much always being off-limits, and you start feeling that grains aren't really a health food so much as a cheap filler, it doesn't seem all that radical. And as time goes by you realize you aren't missing that much, and the things you thought you were missing in the beginning were mostly just habitual cravings that go away once you break your conditioned response.
On the Whole30, I've been eating shit-tonnes of eggs. Also lots of sweet potatoes and plantains. Meats are usually chicken, salmon, or grass-fed beef, but that's not really anything new.
A typical day goes like this:
2 hard boiled eggs, 3 medjool dates, baked plantain chips
large salad w/ dark greens (no iceberg), hard boiled egg, grilled chicken breast, pineapple chunks
2 chicken thighs or 6 oz salmon, steamed broccoli, sweet potato
It may sound boring but honestly I don't feel the need to switch it up too often--good food is good food.
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I'd suggest checking out the fathead blog too. Today's post was actually about how he is adding in some things to his diet he previously had out.
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2014/10/16/my-previous-view-of-the-paleo-diet-got-squashed/
His documentary is what started me down the path. Also I highly suggest his talk "Science for smart people" which was available on his youtube channel last I knew.
I am not strict paleo but am low carb.
Typically I have the following:
Breakfast - Egg caserole (eggs, veggies, sausage)
Lunch - Sandwich without bread (lunchmeat, cheese, some greens), yogurt and many times some almond flour cookies I make
Dinner - Meat and veggies.
When I started I also came up with a cheat day I call "Fuck it Friday" where I just ate what I wanted regardless of what it was on Friday. I never went nuts but I might have pizza for dinner or something. I didn't have any real health issues than slowly gaining weight and not great bloodwork and I really liked my carbs before starting down this path. So having that cheat day made it easier for me to do. I do dairy and sweet potatoes and squash at times.
The big thing that Tom from Fathead, Mark from MDA, and others will say that is the best advice is everyone is different and find what works for you. In general less processed and more natural is better. But some people can't handle certain foods that are great for others. Experiment with what works for you.
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+1 for Fathead, great flick!
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
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this week:
breakfast: 3 whole eggs with spinach, 1 sliced tomato, 1/4-1/2 cup of blueberries
Lunch: turkey tenderloin, sauteed cabbage, roasted sweet potatoes
dinner: tilapia or salmon, sauteed cabbage, 1 sliced tomato
snacks: cashews, almond butter, protein shake...maybe a small handful of dark chocolate chips after dinner
cooking oils vary: coconut oil, olive oil, MCT oil
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I'm never truly certain where the divisions lie in the paleo-primal-caveman-keto movements.
I don't eat dairy because I'm violently allergic.
I stay away from flours and sugars because both my parents have type II diabetes, and my A1C of 5.5 puts me at an 86% elevated risk for developing it myself.
I try to stay in ketosis, because it makes me feel good.
Mostly I eat meat, and vegetables. These are my current kicks:
Breakfast Choices: fast; full-fat broth; ground beef & sauteed peppers; oatmeal w/ butter. (I'm not a fan of bulletproof coffee)
Lunch & Dinner Choices: marinated meat w/ roasted brussel sprouts; tuna salad over leaves; salmon salad over leaves; roasted root vegetables w/ chicken
If you're specifically interested in the Autoimmune protocol, you can check out this cookbook (http://www.amazon.com/The-Autoimmune-Paleo-Cookbook-Allergen-Free/dp/0578135213). I can loan you my copy, if you'd like. Just PM me.
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I'm kind of half-assing a paleo. Basically trying to eliminate a lot of wheat and sugar. I do think those two combined cause a lot of issues. I get a lot of bloating from carbs but it's just so hard to stay away.
I've also been on a reduced dairy thing for years... I don't touch milk at all but will occasionally have dairy products like cheese, ice cream, greek yogurt, etc. I found that reducing dairy improved my skin massively.
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I eat "low-carb" not paleo. For me the biggest difference between the 2 is that I am fine with dairy and see no reason to stop eating/drinking it. When I went low-carb, my GERD went away (no more Nexium!), my achy joints felt a lot better. My blood work improved (triglycerides went way down, uric acid went down, HDL/LDL ratio improved, CRP went down). When I eliminated grains (totally) I was even better. I haven't lost much weight on this diet, but my health is definitely better.
This was exactly my experience, except my cholesterol didn't go down, in fact went up a bit. I felt so much better, lost weight, started running again and competing in 10K races. Seasonal allergies pretty much disappeared, etc.
I did Paleo or just low carb for about 7 years, and only stopped when I moved, changed jobs at a much lower income and couldn't afford it. Plus, when I stopped cooking for myself, my wife wasn't on board (she still thinks it's insane) so since she is cooking, I eat what she cooks. Still no gluten, and lots of veggies/fruits, but now including grains and potatoes.
I am expecting to get a much higher paying job in the next month or so, so plan to edge back into low-carb/paleo.
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This is my 12th day of low carb and I'm pretty sure I'd hurt someone if they walked by me with a NYC bagel right now...
I'm eating probably 3x the protein I normally eat and way too much cheese...
Somebody mentioned plantain bread? Where/how? I'm afraid to bake as I'm trying to sorta low call as well but I have bought coconut flour and some other stuff for longer term....never saw plantain flour?
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The_path_less_taken - I made some Low Carb Keto dinner rolls that turned out pretty well and the closest thing I have had to "bread" in probably 6 months. http://healinggourmet.com/healthy-recipes/keto-paleo-dinner-rolls/ (http://healinggourmet.com/healthy-recipes/keto-paleo-dinner-rolls/) I adapted the recipe to make a "sweet" bun by taking out the spices, cutting down the salt and adding some vanilla and cinnamon and a couple chopped prunes (would have used raisins but were out) They were super yummy!
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Today
Breakfast: Half avocado chopped and mixed with diced tomatoes and diced peeled cucumbers.. salted with sriracha. DELICIOUS. Oh and bacon. Eat a large plate of this meal.. it will hold you over for hours.
Lunch: A few macadamia nuts and 1/3 banana. (Normally I eat more than this but I was running errands. However, the large breakfast was holding me over.)
Dinner: Leftover cabbage-burger-tomato-onion casserole and leftover Thai food. Greek Salad because it was already made and in the fridge.
Post dinner snack: 2 cucumber slices with olive paste.
Dessert: One square of chocolate with a smear of almond butter
I drink coffee also, with a dollup of coconut oil. Coffee is not technically paleo but I have to have it. Otherwise I drink carbonated water and water usually and sometimes a little red wine.
This is just a snapshot. You can eat as much of the above that you want and will not gain weight. In fact, make sure you get plenty of fats for energy.
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Without knowing the name, we adhere to this rdiet egarding about 75% of our food consumption.
We need to do better though, a few changes were made last week which we've maintained.
Hopefully this will bring it to 90%. That's good enough for me
So nice to have a name for it! Coffee is my downfall
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Due to auto immune diseases (celiac being just one of them) I grew up eating paleo before it was called paleo. I don't eat any form of dairy what so ever either. I dont however completely eliminate legumes but very rarely eat them. A blog with fantastic recipes my entire family will eat is www.paleomg.com her pizza casserole and buffalo chicken casserole are fabulous. We also love the ham bone soup in the crock pot, my kids beg me to make it. I haven't tried anything from her site that isn't amazing.
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
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The_path_less_taken - I made some Low Carb Keto dinner rolls that turned out pretty well and the closest thing I have had to "bread" in probably 6 months. http://healinggourmet.com/healthy-recipes/keto-paleo-dinner-rolls/ (http://healinggourmet.com/healthy-recipes/keto-paleo-dinner-rolls/) I adapted the recipe to make a "sweet" bun by taking out the spices, cutting down the salt and adding some vanilla and cinnamon and a couple chopped prunes (would have used raisins but were out) They were super yummy!
I love you swick! When I walked the dogs at 11pm it was sleeting sideways with 35mph winds: I had hot chocolate. With a small shot of Frangelico in it. And whipped cream...delicious! So, out of ketosis.
Square one, here I come.
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My DH has an autoimmune disease and he tried the Paleo diet but had much more success with a Vegan diet.
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
Please explain how a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is "scammy." It's only "scammy" if you spend ten bucks on a loaf of "paleo" bread or a jar of "primal" mayonnaise. Then again, show me a diet--including everyone's sainted vegetarianism and veganism--where someone isn't pushing some sort of convenience food (Tofurky, Daiya, etc.).
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
Please explain how a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is "scammy." It's only "scammy" if you spend ten bucks on a loaf of "paleo" bread or a jar of "primal" mayonnaise. Then again, show me a diet--including everyone's sainted vegetarianism and veganism--where someone isn't pushing some sort of convenience food (Tofurky, Daiya, etc.).
Scammy doesn't necessarily mean bad for you. It's a scam because it's just the latest trend and people eat it up (pun intended). Most of the effects people are realizing are placebo IMO. The same has been shown with gluten free diets with the exception of those with celiac. Eating real food and not processed crap is all that really seems to matter. All these other diets have no real science showing they do anything for you.
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
Please explain how a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is "scammy." It's only "scammy" if you spend ten bucks on a loaf of "paleo" bread or a jar of "primal" mayonnaise. Then again, show me a diet--including everyone's sainted vegetarianism and veganism--where someone isn't pushing some sort of convenience food (Tofurky, Daiya, etc.).
Scammy doesn't necessarily mean bad for you. It's a scam because it's just the latest trend and people eat it up (pun intended). Most of the effects people are realizing are placebo IMO. The same has been shown with gluten free diets with the exception of those with celiac. Eating real food and not processed crap is all that really seems to matter. All these other diets have no real science showing they do anything for you.
This is fact. Paleo rated very low on the diet rankings by Doctors and scientists through US News. The top rated diets are DASH, Mediterranean and other that use advocate good fats (non saturated), vegetables and fruits, lean proteins/fish, nuts, and whole grains. Bodies tend to fare the best when exposed to the entire food pyramid and not just a small portion of it because cave men were limited to certain ingredients. I would say that evidence suggests avoiding saturated fats and simple sugars, eating as many vegetables as possible and even organic produce/meats have far more compelling evidence to support them than Paleo or any other severely restrictive diets. Look at where people live the longest/healthiest. People in Okinawa live extremely long and they eat a lot of rice. If complex carbs were not good for your body do you think that people who eat a lot of them would be so healthy/long lived? You know what they don't eat? Do you know what people in cultures that live long and healthy the world over don't eat? Processed/fried foods and simple sugars. This Paleo trend will end shortly and the next scam will start soon afterwards.
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I wouldn't call it a scam, because it's not a lie or a fake. I'd call it a fad diet. Not the first or last. I remember when high-carb, low-fat was the way to go. Lots of people switched to high-carb and guess what, they lost weight, lowered their cholesterol, felt better, etc. To a certain extent, anything that gets you to pay more attention to what you eat is going to benefit you, because you will be a little more conscious and less likely to overeat or eat krap.
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No.
To the extent my diet overlaps with it is coincidence.
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Low carbers at my work are always overweight. January, they go strict with veggies and meat only. Loose some water weight and then pizza boxes start showing up at noon. I just lough at all this. They walk around like zombies with no energy and always hungry.
Me, I'm the skinniest guy at work eating nothing but carbs. Tons of bread, rice and fruit. Low fat, no protein. 5000 calories of it every day for the last 6 years. Some days even 7000 calories. That gives me energy to move around and burn it all. If I stuffed my self with dead animal flesh I would have to lay down and digest for 24 hours, rinse and repeat.
I know, I know, that FAT does not make you FAT but rice will. Go to Asia and find fat people.
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
Please explain how a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is "scammy." It's only "scammy" if you spend ten bucks on a loaf of "paleo" bread or a jar of "primal" mayonnaise. Then again, show me a diet--including everyone's sainted vegetarianism and veganism--where someone isn't pushing some sort of convenience food (Tofurky, Daiya, etc.).
Scammy doesn't necessarily mean bad for you. It's a scam because it's just the latest trend and people eat it up (pun intended). Most of the effects people are realizing are placebo IMO. The same has been shown with gluten free diets with the exception of those with celiac. Eating real food and not processed crap is all that really seems to matter. All these other diets have no real science showing they do anything for you.
This is fact. Paleo rated very low on the diet rankings by Doctors and scientists through US News. The top rated diets are DASH, Mediterranean and other that use advocate good fats (non saturated), vegetables and fruits, lean proteins/fish, nuts, and whole grains. Bodies tend to fare the best when exposed to the entire food pyramid and not just a small portion of it because cave men were limited to certain ingredients. I would say that evidence suggests avoiding saturated fats and simple sugars, eating as many vegetables as possible and even organic produce/meats have far more compelling evidence to support them than Paleo or any other severely restrictive diets. Look at where people live the longest/healthiest. People in Okinawa live extremely long and they eat a lot of rice. If complex carbs were not good for your body do you think that people who eat a lot of them would be so healthy/long lived? You know what they don't eat? Do you know what people in cultures that live long and healthy the world over don't eat? Processed/fried foods and simple sugars. This Paleo trend will end shortly and the next scam will start soon afterwards.
A couple of points on the paleo diet:-
1. The idea that people ate like that in paleo times is palava. Its just a fairy tale. Even if it was true who really cares. We should eat what is healthy for us rather than what some fairy tale story regarding how our paleo ancestors ate.
2. Good carbs which include fibre are really important for your health.
3. Animal foods (meat and dairy) are associated with lots of health problems including heart disease and cancer.
4. Beans and lentils are extremely healthy for you.
The Paleo diet is a scam. It's probably a lot better for you than donuts and beer but there is no scientific or anthropological backing for the diet at all and that is why it is a scam.
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Low carbers at my work are always overweight. January, they go strict with veggies and meat only. Loose some water weight and then pizza boxes start showing up at noon. I just lough at all this. They walk around like zombies with no energy and always hungry.
Me, I'm the skinniest guy at work eating nothing but carbs. Tons of bread, rice and fruit. Low fat, no protein. 5000 calories of it every day for the last 6 years. Some days even 7000 calories. That gives me energy to move around and burn it all. If I stuffed my self with dead animal flesh I would have to lay down and digest for 24 hours, rinse and repeat.
I know, I know, that FAT does not make you FAT but rice will. Go to Asia and find fat people.
This is the facts. I remember trying these low carb diets in winter. Lots of meat and cheese and that sort of crap. In summer I'd naturally eat a tonne of fruit. Basically I'd put on weight in the low carb phase and then lose it in summer.
I eat meat and I still eat some junk food but when I need to lose weight its just more and more fruit and vegetables with plenty of lentils/beans and rice to fill me up.
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
Not sure why you're necroposting just to bad-mouth a diet that other forum members have found success with. Yours was the first post in over a year, which resurrected the thread.
I stand by my post from October 2014 above (the last activity date before steveo's quoted comment), my wife and I personally feel and perform our best when adhering to a Paleo diet. YMMV.
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
Not sure why you're necroposting just to bad-mouth a diet that other forum members have found success with. Yours was the first post in over a year, which resurrected the thread.
I stand by my post from October 2014 above (the last activity date before steveo's quoted comment), my wife and I personally feel and perform our best when adhering to a Paleo diet. YMMV.
Someone must have edited the thread because I definitely didn't go looking for it. The Paleo diet is a funny one. I've looked into it and it is the worst kind of bro science. Its probably a placebo effect in relation to while you feel good plus you have to look at the longer term effects and not rely on anecdotal evidence.
Diets in my opinion are about odds. I think Steve Jobs was a vegan and I think that style of diet is typically the healthiest and best for minimising your chance of dying from cancer or heart disease but he died from cancer. Eating a paleo diet probably puts the odds against you when it comes to developing weight gain and/or developing some chronic diseases that typically kill people.
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
Not sure why you're necroposting just to bad-mouth a diet that other forum members have found success with. Yours was the first post in over a year, which resurrected the thread.
I stand by my post from October 2014 above (the last activity date before steveo's quoted comment), my wife and I personally feel and perform our best when adhering to a Paleo diet. YMMV.
Someone must have edited the thread because I definitely didn't go looking for it. The Paleo diet is a funny one. I've looked into it and it is the worst kind of bro science. Its probably a placebo effect in relation to while you feel good plus you have to look at the longer term effects and not rely on anecdotal evidence.
Diets in my opinion are about odds. I think Steve Jobs was a vegan and I think that style of diet is typically the healthiest and best for minimising your chance of dying from cancer or heart disease but he died from cancer. Eating a paleo diet probably puts the odds against you when it comes to developing weight gain and/or developing some chronic diseases that typically kill people.
The few studies I've seen that have been done comparing Paleo to other diets for weight loss and other diseases risk factors have shown it to be equal to or better than the Mediterranean diet. Not many have been done since it's fairly new to the scene. I'd hardly think the changes in weight and vital statistics that I personally have effected by switching my diet to Paleo fall under the placebo effect. Been mostly Paleo since 2010 (having tried many diets before, including counting calories and vegetarian, both of which did nothing), health has only improved since. Discount it all you want as n=1, I'll agree with you on the non-robustness of the statistics there. But to say it's dangerous and unhealthy? Strongly disagree. It's been life-changing for me and many others who I have met.
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
Not sure why you're necroposting just to bad-mouth a diet that other forum members have found success with. Yours was the first post in over a year, which resurrected the thread.
It's worth it just for the term "bro science."
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I did it, but I have fallen off the wagon. I think paleo is the greatest thing ever -- when I was on it, I lost 40 lbs, and I was literally running up the stairs when I got to work, just because I felt like it. I'd just jog up five flights of stairs, because it felt better than walking.
I'm up 15 lbs from that, and want to get back on it.
Breakfast was always scrambled eggs, and maybe a piece of sausage, with coffee. Lunch was a salad with some sort of protein. Dinner was protein with vegetables. The food is as boring as hell, but it's worth it.
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What's paleo, where you forage for roots and berries and eat squirrels you killed with a thrown rock?
Or when you just eat a lot of bacon you picked up at the supermarket?
(Insert troll icon here) :D
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Disclaimer: I'm a practitioner of eating a whole food plant based diet.
I think paleo is a great option for many people as long as you stick to eating whole foods. I love the Michael Pollan quote that goes, "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants" This is actually pretty close to what the people the paleo diet is trying to imitate as they did not have much food to begin with and meat was pretty scarce.
I don't adhere to the paleo diet as I don't consume animal products except for cheese on occasion. I've never felt better. I always tell people to give it a try and you'll be amazed at how great you feel. However, I think the paleo diet is a great way for people to move over to a whole food based diet and cutting out all of the processed foods we have is an amazing way to immediately improve your health.
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If your body tolerates Dairy and Gluten then Paleo is a scam. Many people don't tolerate dairy well so that is a big consideration. I tolerate both well and I love fat free Greek yogurt and eat whole grain breads and pasta regularly. Extreme diets (except for those with allergies/sensitivities) are scammy. Limit saturated fats and simple sugars and you need not worry about much else.
Please explain how a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is "scammy." It's only "scammy" if you spend ten bucks on a loaf of "paleo" bread or a jar of "primal" mayonnaise. Then again, show me a diet--including everyone's sainted vegetarianism and veganism--where someone isn't pushing some sort of convenience food (Tofurky, Daiya, etc.).
Scammy doesn't necessarily mean bad for you. It's a scam because it's just the latest trend and people eat it up (pun intended). Most of the effects people are realizing are placebo IMO. The same has been shown with gluten free diets with the exception of those with celiac. Eating real food and not processed crap is all that really seems to matter. All these other diets have no real science showing they do anything for you.
This is fact. Paleo rated very low on the diet rankings by Doctors and scientists through US News. The top rated diets are DASH, Mediterranean and other that use advocate good fats (non saturated), vegetables and fruits, lean proteins/fish, nuts, and whole grains. Bodies tend to fare the best when exposed to the entire food pyramid and not just a small portion of it because cave men were limited to certain ingredients. I would say that evidence suggests avoiding saturated fats and simple sugars, eating as many vegetables as possible and even organic produce/meats have far more compelling evidence to support them than Paleo or any other severely restrictive diets. Look at where people live the longest/healthiest. People in Okinawa live extremely long and they eat a lot of rice. If complex carbs were not good for your body do you think that people who eat a lot of them would be so healthy/long lived? You know what they don't eat? Do you know what people in cultures that live long and healthy the world over don't eat? Processed/fried foods and simple sugars. This Paleo trend will end shortly and the next scam will start soon afterwards.
100% agreed.
Everything I've read about longevity populations living right now, today, suggests whole, un-processed, mostly plant-based foods and minimal meats are most associated with making it to 70, 80, and beyond in good health and with minimal levels of age-related diseases, food-wise. Look up Okinawa (as mentioned), Nicoya, Ikaria, Loma Linda, and Sardinia. They aren't ducking carbs; they're eating whole foods and making it to old age in much better health than folks anywhere else. Is it just the food? Nah...other factors are present (strong social connections, natural exercise, a sense of purpose), but the food part is easiest to replicate, and the formula is more or less the same everywhere.
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In terms of lbs on the scale it makes zero difference what you eat. 1000 calories of chicken and rice is the same as 1000 calories of ice cream in that regard.
What it DOES make a difference in is: digestion, energy, muscle mass retained, etc.
So it's silly when people say, "I did this diet and lost all this weight." Well, that's because they ate less calories. If they simply would've cut back on their regular foods it would have had the same effect.
Personally, I need carbs for energy. I can get them relatively low, but if I switch to like all veggies I just get starving. At my peak fitness/bodybuilding levels I was having around 300-400g protein and 500ish grams of carbs. All while being 220lbs and about 10% BF at just under 5'10.
At the end of the day, unless you have an actual disease, it's all just trial and error. Everyone's bodies are different. What works for one may not for another, and when you start really trying to optimize energy levels and maintaining muscle mass while losing fat, it opens up a whole new ball game. If there's one thing I have figured out, it's that fats, make me gain fat. Period. My body just doesn't process them that well. I don't shy from the standard fats, but I don't work nuts into my diet regularly either.
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At the end of the day, unless you have an actual disease, it's all just trial and error. Everyone's bodies are different. What works for one may not for another, and when you start really trying to optimize energy levels and maintaining muscle mass while losing fat, it opens up a whole new ball game.
I don't think that this is really true. Our bodies aren't that different. I also think that there is a difference between a focus on muscle mass and a focus on health. It you are focussed on health than a Paleo or any low carb/high meat diet is basically unhealthy for you. If you are focussed on muscle mass that style of diet probably works really well.
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I think nutritional science is still too new for anyone to me making definitive statements about health.
I mean, eating saturated fat increases HDL* (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC288145/). And higher HDL is metabolic marker connected with decreases in an individuals chance of developing cardiovascular disease.
But shit (!) eating animal protein increases many cancer markers and will probably give you cardiovascular disease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study).
What's a boy to do?
Everyone can pick their diet camp, but it's not a hill anyone should defending too vigorously. In the end, we're all going to be wrong. The science just isn't mature enough.
*The links are provided for honesty, not because I'm trying to be a know-it-all dick. I hope that comes across.
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At the end of the day, unless you have an actual disease, it's all just trial and error. Everyone's bodies are different. What works for one may not for another, and when you start really trying to optimize energy levels and maintaining muscle mass while losing fat, it opens up a whole new ball game.
I don't think that this is really true. Our bodies aren't that different. I also think that there is a difference between a focus on muscle mass and a focus on health. It you are focussed on health than a Paleo or any low carb/high meat diet is basically unhealthy for you. If you are focussed on muscle mass that style of diet probably works really well.
I absolutely agree there is a difference between a focus on muscle mass and health. I agree that in long term health wise, eating a ton of meat is not ideal. In fact, eating a lot in general isn't ideal, even if you aren't fat.
In regards to being different, I don't think it's any sort of wildly different. Some people just process macronutrients better than others. Just look at this thread. All the people that feel better doing different things and can't digest certain things well.
Personally, I'm part of the "don't knock it till you try it" crowd. I experiment TONS. What I personally believe is moderation and avoiding processed foods and those high in sugar. Have a balanced diet in moderation with those in mind, and it would benefit 95% of the population.
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Paleo is great; my GF and I have been eating that way for almost three years. She's lost 50+lbs and is continuing to lose. We both feel the best we ever have. Neither of us have gotten sick since we started unless we did something stupid (lack of sleep generally).
I, too, hope the "trendiness" of Paleo goes away, at least to the extent of going to the store and seeing "Paleo bars" (that are anything but) or seeing recipes all over for "paleo pancakes" or "paleo pop tarts" and other fake horseshit. They're the processed-soy-fake-meat of the Paleo world and just as awful for you (and expensive generally).
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No because it's probably unhealthy for you and it's the worst kind of bro science.
Not sure why you're necroposting just to bad-mouth a diet that other forum members have found success with. Yours was the first post in over a year, which resurrected the thread.
I stand by my post from October 2014 above (the last activity date before steveo's quoted comment), my wife and I personally feel and perform our best when adhering to a Paleo diet. YMMV.
Someone must have edited the thread because I definitely didn't go looking for it. The Paleo diet is a funny one. I've looked into it and it is the worst kind of bro science. Its probably a placebo effect in relation to while you feel good plus you have to look at the longer term effects and not rely on anecdotal evidence.
Diets in my opinion are about odds. I think Steve Jobs was a vegan and I think that style of diet is typically the healthiest and best for minimising your chance of dying from cancer or heart disease but he died from cancer. Eating a paleo diet probably puts the odds against you when it comes to developing weight gain and/or developing some chronic diseases that typically kill people.
I would disagree that Vegan is the best and the studies I have read would indicate that Vegan plus fish would be overall healthier than vegan. Now no red meat/butter/cream is undoubtedly healthier.
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I think nutritional science is still too new for anyone to me making definitive statements about health.
I mean, eating saturated fat increases HDL* (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC288145/). And higher HDL is metabolic marker connected with decreases in an individuals chance of developing cardiovascular disease.
But shit (!) eating animal protein increases many cancer markers and will probably give you cardiovascular disease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study).
What's a boy to do?
Everyone can pick their diet camp, but it's not a hill anyone should defending too vigorously. In the end, we're all going to be wrong. The science just isn't mature enough.
*The links are provided for honesty, not because I'm trying to be a know-it-all dick. I hope that comes across.
I see on the internet these days a lot of folks who pick a camp and stick to it without much in the way of backup other than an ultra specific reductionist study or two. Those are nice for scientists over the long term to pile up data and MAYBE in a few lifetimes come up with an answer to a close to ideal human diet.
In the mean time though for an individual it'd be a good idea to measure over time markers that we know mean greater health and longer life. Cholesterol and triglycerides, weight and bodyfat, physical ability. If you're doing that, it'll be apparent when you change diets whether the needles move or not. I know from doing it, that a higher protein, meat based diet swings me into to higher bodyfat and higher cholesterol numbers which obviously isn't healthy even if Mark's daily apple says something different. If I severely restrict carbs I can lose the bodyfat but feel like total dogshit (that's a scientific marker) and my speed/endurance on the bike drops like a rock.
So yes, I very much agree. Start with something that rings true in terms of health. Diets that stress real, mostly unprocessed foods are a good sign. Try one, measure your health and be honest with the results even if you want them to be something other than what they are. And even if the results are 'ok', try another, the results might be better!!
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I am eating generic low carb to control T2 diabetes. Four months ago I weighed 300lbs, with an A1C of 11.0, and my lipid panel was so terrible I can't even remember the numbers (everything was out of whack).
I got blood work back last week. HDL, LDL, total cholesterol, triglycerides were all in their desired range and A1C was fantastic. Specifically my A1C went from 11.0 to 5.8, and I also managed to lose 35 lbs. The weight loss is continuing and my guess is that in 6 months my A1C will settle out around 5.5 and I should lost at least another 30lbs (started at 300, now 265, hoping for 235 by summer and 200 by end of year).
My doctor seemed skeptical when I told him I had just started this diet back in October. After the blood work came back he was super happy and told me to keep doing it. For diabetics who know A1C numbers, 11.0->5.8 while taking less medication will speak volumes about what this diet does. Now I just take generic Metformin as the only drug required for diabetic control.
I don't put much stock in Paleo or Atkins or Whole30 or whatever flavor of low carb is currently en vogue. Just get all the damn sugar and excess starch/carbs out of your diet and eat lots of meat and veggies. I drink alcohol (blue cheese olive vodka martinis), have caffeine, artificial sweeteners, lots of things that will invariably break the rules of one of the low carb programs. Know what? It doesn't seem to affect things. Look at what those programs have in common and you will know what's actually important.
Give it a try, don't be too dogmatic about any one program, just get the crap out of your diet. If you're doing 90% of your shopping around the periphery of the grocery store and mostly avoiding the aisles you'll probably be fine. The one caveat I will add is DON'T SABOTAGE YOURSELF. When you adapt to this diet, your appetite almost disappears. Your blood sugar levels will be ruler flat throughout the day, hunger cravings go away, and it becomes very easy to stick with. As soon as you start sabotaging yourself by "cheating" cravings will come back and you'll have difficulty sticking with the diet. These diets do work for weight loss by caloric restriction, but it's because they regulate your blood sugar better throughout the day and you end up with almost no hunger cravings, so you naturally eat less without having to try.
I even hate to use the word "cheating" because cheating gets you ahead without putting in the work. Going off this diet does the exact opposite, it puts you behind and makes you work more. A low carb diet is the real cheat, you start to fix a lot of health problems with it and all you have to do is eat is buttered steaks, cobb salads, bacon and eggs, and lots of other wonderful foods. If that isn't the most awesome cheat I don't know what is.
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See this wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study)
The China Study is " ... based on the China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study described by The New York Times as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology" conducted by the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, Cornell University and the University of Oxford."
This study included participants from 65 rural counties in China, each of which had followed basically the same diet for their whole life and each of which consumed varying levels of animal protein. Blood cholesterol levels were closely correlated with consumption of animal protein, and to the development of Western diseases such as " ... coronary heart disease, diabetes, leukemia, and cancers of the colon, lung, breast, brain, stomach and liver". The higher the level of animal protein consumed, the higher the level of disease.
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See this wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study)
The China Study is " ... based on the China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study described by The New York Times as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology" conducted by the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, Cornell University and the University of Oxford."
This study included participants from 65 rural counties in China, each of which had followed basically the same diet for their whole life and each of which consumed varying levels of animal protein. Blood cholesterol levels were closely correlated with consumption of animal protein, and to the development of Western diseases such as " ... coronary heart disease, diabetes, leukemia, and cancers of the colon, lung, breast, brain, stomach and liver". The higher the level of animal protein consumed, the higher the level of disease.
And leave it to a paleo thread to bring the vegetarians/vegans out of the woodwork.
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See this wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study)
The China Study is " ... based on the China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study described by The New York Times as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology" conducted by the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, Cornell University and the University of Oxford."
This study included participants from 65 rural counties in China, each of which had followed basically the same diet for their whole life and each of which consumed varying levels of animal protein. Blood cholesterol levels were closely correlated with consumption of animal protein, and to the development of Western diseases such as " ... coronary heart disease, diabetes, leukemia, and cancers of the colon, lung, breast, brain, stomach and liver". The higher the level of animal protein consumed, the higher the level of disease.
And leave it to a paleo thread to bring the vegetarians/vegans out of the woodwork.
and here is a great China Study rebuttal for anybody interested
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
the long version
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/#con
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See this wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study)
The China Study is " ... based on the China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study described by The New York Times as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology" conducted by the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, Cornell University and the University of Oxford."
This study included participants from 65 rural counties in China, each of which had followed basically the same diet for their whole life and each of which consumed varying levels of animal protein. Blood cholesterol levels were closely correlated with consumption of animal protein, and to the development of Western diseases such as " ... coronary heart disease, diabetes, leukemia, and cancers of the colon, lung, breast, brain, stomach and liver". The higher the level of animal protein consumed, the higher the level of disease.
And leave it to a paleo thread to bring the vegetarians/vegans out of the woodwork.
and here is a great China Study rebuttal for anybody interested
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
the long version
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/#con
The China Study is one extreme and Atkins is the other. Paleo is way too close to Atkins to be ideal.
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This was on the BBC news today. Little islands where everyone is obese and diabetic because they started to eat meat like the western countries.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35346493
Rice makes you fat, it's a fact.
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In terms of lbs on the scale it makes zero difference what you eat. 1000 calories of chicken and rice is the same as 1000 calories of ice cream in that regard.
You have to consider the effect of chicken and rice on blood sugar and insulin. It does, in fact, make a difference.
I've been experimenting a lot the last couple of years in my attempt to lose the baby weight. I'm more of a middle of the road eater.
When I was pregnant with my first child, we were mostly vegetarian - would only cook/ eat meat a couple of times a month. I ate similarly a few years later while training for a half marathon.
As I got older, I realized that I couldn't handle carbs quite like that anymore.
I kind of like Dr. Mark Hyman's "Paleo-Vegan" suggestion, or Jules from Stonesoup's version of paleo (she eats beans and cheese).
For weight control, I need to limit carbs. But they can't be zero or I get a brain fog.
For the planet and health, I do worry about the amount of meat that is eaten in a paleo diet.
I'm still experimenting.
November 2014, I gave up wheat, sugar, alcohol for a month and dropped 7 lbs, caloric intake not changing (the 3 prior months was 2 lbs a month).
November 2015, I decided to do it again. I lost 6 lbs before the whole family got the stomach flu.
However, in November 2015 I was experimenting with a beachbody program the "Ultimate Reset", which starts healthy and ends vegan by the end of the first week. It's 21 days.
I found that it also worked for me - especially when I had PMS and was craving carbs. Permission to have oatmeal for breakfast and beans and rice for dinner? Yes please.
Still trying to find that right balance of what will work for me long term. I'm not interested in giving up any one food group.
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This was on the BBC news today. Little islands where everyone is obese and diabetic because they started to eat meat like the western countries.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35346493
Rice makes you fat, it's a fact.
That's a massive misrepresentation of the article.
If by 'meat' you mean mutton flaps (which are similar to bacon) and fatty canned meat (like spam), then yes, 'meat' is the problem. No mention of chicken or leaner cuts of pork or beef (aka what is recommended on a Paleo diet). They import only the worst kinds of meat and gain weight, shocker.
"And then there are fizzy drinks." "We used to watch American movies and TV shows and everyone was drinking soda. We sat there and thought, 'Wow, I would love to drink soda and we're poor because we're drinking water.' But now everyone's drinking water and we are drinking soda!" - sounds like a recipe for obesity and diabetes to me.
Then there's this gem:
But there's no question the role that society plays here. "The bigger you are, that's beauty," says Drew Havea, chair of the civil Society Forum of Tonga. Size and status in Tonga have often gone together. The Tongan King Tupou IV, who died in 2006, holds the Guinness record for being the heaviest-ever monarch - 200kg (33 stone, or 440lbs). Being thin would traditionally have indicated a position lower in the social pecking order.
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This was on the BBC news today. Little islands where everyone is obese and diabetic because they started to eat meat like the western countries.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35346493
Rice makes you fat, it's a fact.
That's a massive misrepresentation of the article.
If by 'meat' you mean mutton flaps (which are similar to bacon) and fatty canned meat (like spam), then yes, 'meat' is the problem. No mention of chicken or leaner cuts of pork or beef (aka what is recommended on a Paleo diet). They import only the worst kinds of meat and gain weight, shocker.
"And then there are fizzy drinks." "We used to watch American movies and TV shows and everyone was drinking soda. We sat there and thought, 'Wow, I would love to drink soda and we're poor because we're drinking water.' But now everyone's drinking water and we are drinking soda!" - sounds like a recipe for obesity and diabetes to me.
Then there's this gem:
But there's no question the role that society plays here. "The bigger you are, that's beauty," says Drew Havea, chair of the civil Society Forum of Tonga. Size and status in Tonga have often gone together. The Tongan King Tupou IV, who died in 2006, holds the Guinness record for being the heaviest-ever monarch - 200kg (33 stone, or 440lbs). Being thin would traditionally have indicated a position lower in the social pecking order.
agreed...dont forget this as well
"Some scientists believe Tonga's problem is partly down to genetics - that Pacific islanders in the past had to survive long periods without food so their bodies are programmed to cling on to fats."
pretty sure anybody would gain weight going from eating fish to 1kg of mutton flaps in 1 sitting...especially with a society that puts a premium on being heavy and with a genetic predisposition to 'clinging onto fat'.
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I've been eating nothing but protein, fat, and leafy green vegetables for almost four months now. I've lost 36lbs as of today, and my bloodwork last week was spot on perfect (I can go find numbers if you guys want, but HDL, LDL, all that jazz was in the desired ranges). It's also controlled my diabetes like no other diet has.
Haters gonna hate, and that's fine. More people should be vegan so my steak dinners don't cost so much.
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I am eating generic low carb to control T2 diabetes. Four months ago I weighed 300lbs, with an A1C of 11.0, and my lipid panel was so terrible I can't even remember the numbers (everything was out of whack).
I got blood work back last week. HDL, LDL, total cholesterol, triglycerides were all in their desired range and A1C was fantastic. Specifically my A1C went from 11.0 to 5.8, and I also managed to lose 35 lbs. The weight loss is continuing and my guess is that in 6 months my A1C will settle out around 5.5 and I should lost at least another 30lbs (started at 300, now 265, hoping for 235 by summer and 200 by end of year).
Congratulations on your new found health. My blood panel also benefited greatly from LC. I was pre-diabetic, which is a nice word for Stage 1 diabetes. I also lost 30 lbs and my stenosing tenosynovitis is 95% cured, despite the fact the doctor told me I was headed towards diabetes and carpal tunnel. Makes me wonder what the "LC is nothing but a placebo effect" crowd has to say about all this?
A few more thoughts:
1. Was talking the other day to some friends about the fact that for decades, children with epilepsy have been put on a high fat diet, which helps eliminate seizures. The mechanism has something to do with dietary fat helping protect the fatty myelin sheathing around cranial nerves. There is now research being conducted into the brain protective effect of a LCHF diet as associated with dementia and Alzheimer's.
2. "On May 8, 2015 the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly the American Dietetic Association) made its official comments on the 2015 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, and recommend dropping saturated fat from nutrients of concern due to the lack of evidence connecting it with cardiovascular disease." Read the rest here: http://fitteru.us/2015/05/earth-shattering-pigs-flying-hell-freezing-nutrition-news/
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ct of a LCHF diet as associated with dementia and Alzheimer's.
2. "On May 8, 2015 the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly the American Dietetic Association) made its official comments on the 2015 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, and recommend dropping saturated fat from nutrients of concern due to the lack of evidence connecting it with cardiovascular disease." Read the rest here: http://fitteru.us/2015/05/earth-shattering-pigs-flying-hell-freezing-nutrition-news/
The same group that was taking sponsorship money from Coke, Mars candy, the cattleman's association and other food companies and was shamed away when they got outed for planning to put their seal on Kraft cheeselike products as part of a kids healthy eating campaign?
I'm not arguing against paleo but that group is pretty suspect.
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I have no experience with it myself, but my friend who was pre-diabetic and also suffered from autoimmune issues had great success with the Whals Protocol. It's pretty similar to many other low-carb diets with a focus on including a variety of nutrient-dense veggies. I believe there is a book you can buy, but probably a ton of info online.
I can say that my friend did lose weight (was also exercising), and saw dramatic improvement in their bloodwork and overall wellbeing.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I don't think anyone can dismiss the science for any particular diet that has shown health benefits long-term for people without reading the scientific studies and then taking a diy approach for what works for them.
What I have noticed is that people have a lot of very set beliefs that may or may not be true. Meat is good, Med diet is good, Okinawa diet is best, carbs are bad, dairy is horrible, vegans are not healthy, eat anything if it is whole foods, eat anything in moderation. I don't think anyone has exactly the magic bullet answer and we've seen how medical advice has changed over time.
I thought this site had some interesting information and Dr. Eade takes a scientific and balanced approach to reviewing current diet approaches such as Paleo/Atkings/South Beach/Ketogenic: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/about-dr-ede/
I particularly like the analytical approach she takes to the existing studies on diet.
Currently we are eating a keto diet. We'll try low carb paleo-ish next. Neither of us have known sensitivities to anything, but increasing energy and longevity plus keeping to a recommended weight and body fat % seem like good goals. I'm pretty convinced that reducing sugar, alcohol and refined foods has been helpful for us - as has meal planning and prep on Sundays. Keto works a charm for rapid fat loss. We'll see if Paleo is good for energy.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
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Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
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The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes.
Carbohydrates includes dietary fiber, which is healthy.
I'm not defending the pyramid. Only pointing out that carbs does not equal sugar. Carbohydrates includes sugar but also fiber. Sugar equals sugar.
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The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes.
Carbohydrates includes dietary fiber, which is healthy.
I'm not defending the pyramid. Only pointing out that carbs does not equal sugar. Carbohydrates includes sugar but also fiber. Sugar equals sugar.
Fair enough...and i understand that.
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Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
Do you think diabetes rates are skyrocketing because people are eating home cooked oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes or is it happening because people eat a bacon double cheeseburger, extra large fries and wash it down with a large coke that has 100+ grams of simple sugar? I think we know that answer to that one.
When we talk about the Standard American Diet and it's rates of obesity and disease it's all about a massive surplus of calories and a massive deficit in nutritional quality. Truthfully Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc. all shouldn't be arguing about which of those ways of eating is 'best' when the elephant in the room is how we've allowed convenience and the profit of food companies to destroy the health of our nation.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
-
Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
Do you think diabetes rates are skyrocketing because people are eating home cooked oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes or is it happening because people eat a bacon double cheeseburger, extra large fries and wash it down with a large coke that has 100+ grams of simple sugar? I think we know that answer to that one.
When we talk about the Standard American Diet and it's rates of obesity and disease it's all about a massive surplus of calories and a massive deficit in nutritional quality. Truthfully Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc. all shouldn't be arguing about which of those ways of eating is 'best' when the elephant in the room is how we've allowed convenience and the profit of food companies to destroy the health of our nation.
No, I tend to agree with you. My feelings on the food pyramid are still the same though. I am a believer in a HFLC diet as opposed to the opposite.
I also agree with your other point. Paleo, atkins, vegan, vegetarian...we probably wouldnt be having this convo if convenience foods didnt exist because we'd only be eating meats, veges, fruits, and nuts...all to varying degrees depending on your diet.
all this food talk...could really go for a pizza and beer right now...im starving
-
Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
Do you think diabetes rates are skyrocketing because people are eating home cooked oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes or is it happening because people eat a bacon double cheeseburger, extra large fries and wash it down with a large coke that has 100+ grams of simple sugar? I think we know that answer to that one.
When we talk about the Standard American Diet and it's rates of obesity and disease it's all about a massive surplus of calories and a massive deficit in nutritional quality. Truthfully Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc. all shouldn't be arguing about which of those ways of eating is 'best' when the elephant in the room is how we've allowed convenience and the profit of food companies to destroy the health of our nation.
-
I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
Citations please?
Not that I'm disagreeing, but I'd like a definition of what "high meat" is, also.
One can be paleo without a "high meat" diet, as you can get plenty of calories from fat.
-
Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
Do you think diabetes rates are skyrocketing because people are eating home cooked oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes or is it happening because people eat a bacon double cheeseburger, extra large fries and wash it down with a large coke that has 100+ grams of simple sugar? I think we know that answer to that one.
When we talk about the Standard American Diet and it's rates of obesity and disease it's all about a massive surplus of calories and a massive deficit in nutritional quality. Truthfully Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc. all shouldn't be arguing about which of those ways of eating is 'best' when the elephant in the room is how we've allowed convenience and the profit of food companies to destroy the health of our nation.
Well, you also have to factor in exercise too - I know it's mostly diet - but consider that your blood sugar and insulin levels are affected both by diet and exercise - if you "burn it off", so to speak, the carbs you eat (whether they be brown rice or white bread) will have less of an effect on the blood sugar.
One reason why if you compare various "diets" it doesn't tell you the whole story. Activity matters.
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If I throw my chocolate bar in the bush and have to forage for it, does that make it Paleo?
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Thanks to PCOS induced IR (insulin resistance) I'm always one step away from Diabetes. So low carb is a way of life with me. You should see how my sugar shoots up if I eat pasta or rice (yes, even whole grain).
Breakfast: varies every week, sometimes it will be a Keto muffin, egg fritta, breakfast sausage ball
Lunch: 2 cups of veggies including leafy greans, this is about 90% of my daily carbs.
Snacks: almonds, walnuts, cheese sticks. If I'm feeling decadent I'll make myself prosciutto cover mozzarella sticks for my post-workout snack
Dinner: lean meats (DH doens't like beef or steak too much) and usually a veggie of some sort
Sweets: low carb popsicles, or "fat bombs" sweetened with Stevia. I'm not a big fan of synthetic sugars so I try to only use these is extreme craving emergencies.
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If I throw my chocolate bar in the bush and have to forage for it, does that make it Paleo?
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Thanks to PCOS induced IR (insulin resistance) I'm always one step away from Diabetes. So low carb is a way of life with me. You should see how my sugar shoots up if I eat pasta or rice (yes, even whole grain).
Breakfast: varies every week, sometimes it will be a Keto muffin, egg fritta, breakfast sausage ball
Lunch: 2 cups of veggies including leafy greans, this is about 90% of my daily carbs.
Snacks: almonds, walnuts, cheese sticks. If I'm feeling decadent I'll make myself prosciutto cover mozzarella sticks for my post-workout snack
Dinner: lean meats (DH doens't like beef or steak too much) and usually a veggie of some sort
Sweets: low carb popsicles, or "fat bombs" sweetened with Stevia. I'm not a big fan of synthetic sugars so I try to only use these is extreme craving emergencies.
This is pretty fascinating. I read a blog of a woman with diabetes. She did a short-lived period of time of low carb, and had a really hard time with her insulin. She was used to giving herself a lot more, but needed less, and at different times, when she was low carb.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
The best site on the web is http://nutritionfacts.org/.
Basically though the evidence is overwhelming when it comes to the best diets to protect against food related diseases. I'd like to see any thing you can find that contradicts what I've stated. Facts should always provide the basis for making these decisions but from what I can see it's a one sided beat down. The facts that are perpetuated by the low carb community (Atkins/Paleo) etc aren't really facts. They are just anecdotal evidence. There will be a study or two stating that what they are doing is correct but it will probably be a massive twist of the actual study or completed by an interest group.
There was a youtube discussion that I watched that was Atkins vs nutritionists and it was hilarious. They asked him why there hasn't been one study to back up his dietary approach and his response was their was no money in it. In reality the money has been on the side of the meat industry.
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If I throw my chocolate bar in the bush and have to forage for it, does that make it Paleo?
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Thanks to PCOS induced IR (insulin resistance) I'm always one step away from Diabetes. So low carb is a way of life with me. You should see how my sugar shoots up if I eat pasta or rice (yes, even whole grain).
Breakfast: varies every week, sometimes it will be a Keto muffin, egg fritta, breakfast sausage ball
Lunch: 2 cups of veggies including leafy greans, this is about 90% of my daily carbs.
Snacks: almonds, walnuts, cheese sticks. If I'm feeling decadent I'll make myself prosciutto cover mozzarella sticks for my post-workout snack
Dinner: lean meats (DH doens't like beef or steak too much) and usually a veggie of some sort
Sweets: low carb popsicles, or "fat bombs" sweetened with Stevia. I'm not a big fan of synthetic sugars so I try to only use these is extreme craving emergencies.
This is pretty fascinating. I read a blog of a woman with diabetes. She did a short-lived period of time of low carb, and had a really hard time with her insulin. She was used to giving herself a lot more, but needed less, and at different times, when she was low carb.
Insulin is spiked via eating meat.
-
Death by Food Pyramid - A pretty good book that goes over the politics and history on how the current food pyramid originated.
Also recently found Dr. Perlmutte...neurologist who advocates for a high fat diet.
But even before the paleo/primal fad came onto the scene i always found the traditional food pyramid completely upside down. Diabetes is skyrocketing in the US. The base of the food pyramid is carbs. Carbs = sugar. Sugar = Diabetes. Am I the only one who finds this crazy? I'm not saying this holds true for all people, but logically, how could have this not have been the outcome with a carb based food pyramid? Fat has far less impact on blood glucose levels.
Definitely. You've got dudes like the 30 bananas a day guy that's eating all fruit but biking some insane amount, I'm sure the sugar from the fruit is fueling that activity.
Do you think diabetes rates are skyrocketing because people are eating home cooked oatmeal, brown rice and sweet potatoes or is it happening because people eat a bacon double cheeseburger, extra large fries and wash it down with a large coke that has 100+ grams of simple sugar? I think we know that answer to that one.
When we talk about the Standard American Diet and it's rates of obesity and disease it's all about a massive surplus of calories and a massive deficit in nutritional quality. Truthfully Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc. all shouldn't be arguing about which of those ways of eating is 'best' when the elephant in the room is how we've allowed convenience and the profit of food companies to destroy the health of our nation.
Well, you also have to factor in exercise too - I know it's mostly diet - but consider that your blood sugar and insulin levels are affected both by diet and exercise - if you "burn it off", so to speak, the carbs you eat (whether they be brown rice or white bread) will have less of an effect on the blood sugar.
One reason why if you compare various "diets" it doesn't tell you the whole story. Activity matters.
-
I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
Spot on. Some people here are confusing losing weight and good bloodwork with being the total indicator of health. Cancer risk doesn't tend to show up in the typical blood work. Beef and pork consumption as well as processed meats of all kinds are proven to drastically increase your risk of cancer. My source is the World Health Organization study of studies from October 2015. It's proven.
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Another source is Dr. William Li who gave an awesome TED talk on using diet to prevent angiogenesis which is the formation of new blood vessels. In this case it's what feeds a cancer cell and turns it from something benign into a malignant tumor. Meat was one of the foods he mentioned that promotes angiogenesis.
https://www.ted.com/talks/william_li?language=en
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
The best site on the web is http://nutritionfacts.org/.
Basically though the evidence is overwhelming when it comes to the best diets to protect against food related diseases. I'd like to see any thing you can find that contradicts what I've stated. Facts should always provide the basis for making these decisions but from what I can see it's a one sided beat down. The facts that are perpetuated by the low carb community (Atkins/Paleo) etc aren't really facts. They are just anecdotal evidence. There will be a study or two stating that what they are doing is correct but it will probably be a massive twist of the actual study or completed by an interest group.
Thanks, I'll read through it. Here is some of what I've read that supports a paleo diet as being good for disease control and long-term health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/faq/#meat
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
Spot on. Some people here are confusing losing weight and good bloodwork with being the total indicator of health. Cancer risk doesn't tend to show up in the typical blood work. Beef and pork consumption as well as processed meats of all kinds are proven to drastically increase your risk of cancer. My source is the World Health Organization study of studies from October 2015. It's proven.
And some people here might be posting without actually reading the studies or the information on alternate diets.
The report from the World Health Organization has concluded that there is clear scientific evidence that eating processed meat causes cancer. In particular, the WHO specifically mentioned processed pork products such as bacon, sausages and hot dogs.
I'm not sure how this is now a debate centred around processed meat which is not part of a paleo or keto diet in any event:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-paleo-recipes/2/#axzz3xpPHa4yO
http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-recipes.html
In fact, a paleo diet can and often is centred around vegetables and other types of protein and fat like nuts, fish, seafood, eggs, cheese, chicken and olive oil.
And as far as "drastically increase the risk of cancer" - that is overblowing it. The report notes that red meat might be linked to an increase in cancer risk but that the WHO could not rule out other factors being responsible for this.
Also, I looked at the http://nutritionfacts.org/ site and it is the opinion one doctor who has embraced veganism and completely avoids the research that does not support his position. In fact, a bunch of other md's have posted a review of his claims here: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/ His diet might be good, but his science is not particularly balanced.
I agree accounting for activity level is important and a lot of the studies do not do this on both sides of any theory. I don't know the truth of the best diet in the world but it probably can't be separated from stress, activity and genetics. I think you need to find the best peer-reviewed information you can and then try some stuff out and see how you feel.
Our plan is to spend more for high quality grass-fed meat, fish ourselves, continue to grow stuff and eat it and experiment.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
The best site on the web is http://nutritionfacts.org/.
Basically though the evidence is overwhelming when it comes to the best diets to protect against food related diseases. I'd like to see any thing you can find that contradicts what I've stated. Facts should always provide the basis for making these decisions but from what I can see it's a one sided beat down. The facts that are perpetuated by the low carb community (Atkins/Paleo) etc aren't really facts. They are just anecdotal evidence. There will be a study or two stating that what they are doing is correct but it will probably be a massive twist of the actual study or completed by an interest group.
Thanks, I'll read through it. Here is some of what I've read that supports a paleo diet as being good for disease control and long-term health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/faq/#meat
You question the veracity of other studies (ones using real science on a large scale) yet include links that is one Drs opinion (third link) and another (first link) that talks about how limited it is. None of these links you posted address increased cancer risk.
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i've been doing 4 hour body on and off for almost 4 years now. The "off" is when i travel for work and am notpaying for my beer or meals. its quite similar to paleo but you're not allowed fruit, but allowed beans. it makes feeling full much easier b/c of all the beans. you can make chili's etc. on 4 hour body slow carb. i drop on avg 5 lbs per week on it and i only add back in cheese once i get to my ideal weight. i even have recipes for a garbanzo bean pizza crust/chips/ whatever you want to use it for thats really good. i think paleo and 4 hour and primal or whatever you want to do all work very well. and i have the vital signs to prove it. all my blood work is off the charts great whenever i'm sticking to one of these cold turkey.
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If I throw my chocolate bar in the bush and have to forage for it, does that make it Paleo?
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Thanks to PCOS induced IR (insulin resistance) I'm always one step away from Diabetes. So low carb is a way of life with me. You should see how my sugar shoots up if I eat pasta or rice (yes, even whole grain).
Breakfast: varies every week, sometimes it will be a Keto muffin, egg fritta, breakfast sausage ball
Lunch: 2 cups of veggies including leafy greans, this is about 90% of my daily carbs.
Snacks: almonds, walnuts, cheese sticks. If I'm feeling decadent I'll make myself prosciutto cover mozzarella sticks for my post-workout snack
Dinner: lean meats (DH doens't like beef or steak too much) and usually a veggie of some sort
Sweets: low carb popsicles, or "fat bombs" sweetened with Stevia. I'm not a big fan of synthetic sugars so I try to only use these is extreme craving emergencies.
This is pretty fascinating. I read a blog of a woman with diabetes. She did a short-lived period of time of low carb, and had a really hard time with her insulin. She was used to giving herself a lot more, but needed less, and at different times, when she was low carb.
Insulin is spiked via eating meat.
That's interesting because her meat intake did not change, she just cut back on carbs.
So her normal breakfast would be, for example, eggs and carbs. She would aim for a particular blood sugar level and give herself a certain amount of insulin before her lunch time workout.
When she cut the carbs, her blood sugar was a lot lower when she checked it - so, for example, she'd end up taking less insulin and/or skipping her workout.
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http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insulin-index/#axzz3xu8muxAv
here a thing from mark's daily apple on how Meat affects insulin and at the bottom he addresses that low carb is beneficial even for diabetics.
and a whole article focused on it
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/#axzz3xu8muxAv
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems. I imagine they would have seen major improvements with any drastic dietary switch that included more vegetables/lean proteins and less processed foods/sugars, regardless of the underlying philosophy. But maybe the Paleo diet was easier for them to stick with, and thus could be deemed more successful? Do whatever works for you.
For my part, I have no specific dietary philosophy or strict rules, but my diet could best be described as a mediterranean diet. We eat whole grains like farro and barley, we make our own bread, we eat yogurt and occasional cheese, beans, lots of veggies, meat or fish a couple times a week, and very little sugar. It's all about moderation. If we have a big italian meal and over do it on the carbs one day, we'll balance with a big salad or a fritatta the next. We maintain our weights and seem to be healthy, so I see no reason to change.
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems. I imagine they would have seen major improvements with any drastic dietary switch that included more vegetables/lean proteins and less processed foods/sugars, regardless of the underlying philosophy. But maybe the Paleo diet was easier for them to stick with, and thus could be deemed more successful? Do whatever works for you.
For my part, I have no specific dietary philosophy or strict rules, but my diet could best be described as a mediterranean diet. We eat whole grains like farro and barley, we make our own bread, we eat yogurt and occasional cheese, beans, lots of veggies, meat or fish a couple times a week, and very little sugar. It's all about moderation. If we have a big italian meal and over do it on the carbs one day, we'll balance with a big salad or a fritatta the next. We maintain our weights and seem to be healthy, so I see no reason to change.
you're making a pretty grand assumption. just b/c the biggest affects are seen in people coming from a very bad scenario doesnt mean the affects dont work on others. i was a slightly overweight (by BMI) 26 year old male when i found a paleo like diet. it has still improved my health.
but the simple fact is when we first walked this earth we werent eating grains and fruits at the current level we consume them and our bodies havent really adjusted to the extra glucose and sedentary lifestyles.
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staggering results are in your body... after only 3 months on this diet ( i was already within all healthy ranges) my body weight had dropped from 215-195 (i'm 6/4)
and my blood work was
HDL's 50
LDL's 88
TRY's 50
Glucose 75
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems.
I'd say the most interesting thing in this thread is how the folks who don't subscribe to a Paleo diet are the most active when the OP initially asked for folks with experience in the diet to give meal advice.
In the spirit of the OP, here's a picture of a pretty typical lunch of mine. Dinner is typically identical, with breakfast consisting of 3 eggs and 2 slices of bacon:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160121/b3fda03251d5ff046fc2da8e8f37b833.jpg)
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems.
I'd say the most interesting thing in this thread is how the folks who don't subscribe to a Paleo diet are the most active when the OP initially asked for folks with experience in the diet to give meal advice.
In the spirit of the OP, here's a picture of a pretty typical lunch of mine. Dinner is typically identical, with breakfast consisting of 3 eggs and 2 slices of bacon:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160121/b3fda03251d5ff046fc2da8e8f37b833.jpg)
How would anyone's body respond to eliminating simple sugar? Paleo is for people who otherwise stretch the definition of refined sugar. It's better than eating twinkies and drinking pop all day. It's not ideal. The reason why so many people like Atkins or Paleo is because they don't have to think when it comes to carbs. Examples would be if 100% whole grain bread is good for you but I like the softness of this 'multigrain,' I can just eat the multigrain. If Greek Yogurt is healthy then I don't need to get the plain and add fruit, I can get the one with flavoring (sugar) already added. Paleo and Atkins give significant weight loss and lab number improvement for the vast majority of Americans. The VAST VAST majority of Americans aren't going from Mediterranean to Paleo. They're going from disgusting to Paleo. In that case, Paleo is a gigantic improvement. If you think that bacon is healthier than 100% whole grain toast or Oatmeal for breakfast then I'm not sure were going to agree on much.
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but the simple fact is when we first walked this earth we werent eating grains and fruits at the current level we consume them and our bodies havent really adjusted to the extra glucose and sedentary lifestyles.
We seem to have adjusted to the extra glucose just fine, as the dawn of agriculture and the resulting nutritional stability allowed for population expansion, reduced infant mortality, longer life spans, and the creation of civilization as we know it.
Am I saying people should live on processed corn and wheat alone? No. But I don't think grains are poison either unless you have celiac or some other intolerance. And I'm glad you feel healthier on your Paleo diet than on your previous _____ diet. You probably are healthier, and that is great. Though I suspect that pre-paleo it wasn't the case that you were eating super healthy but those pesky apples and whole grains you were consuming were just holding you back.
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
The best site on the web is http://nutritionfacts.org/.
Basically though the evidence is overwhelming when it comes to the best diets to protect against food related diseases. I'd like to see any thing you can find that contradicts what I've stated. Facts should always provide the basis for making these decisions but from what I can see it's a one sided beat down. The facts that are perpetuated by the low carb community (Atkins/Paleo) etc aren't really facts. They are just anecdotal evidence. There will be a study or two stating that what they are doing is correct but it will probably be a massive twist of the actual study or completed by an interest group.
Thanks, I'll read through it. Here is some of what I've read that supports a paleo diet as being good for disease control and long-term health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/faq/#meat
You question the veracity of other studies (ones using real science on a large scale) yet include links that is one Drs opinion (third link) and another (first link) that talks about how limited it is. None of these links you posted address increased cancer risk.
I think it is pretty clear that some of the studies relied upon in the blog link you provided as the best of the "overwhelming evidence" for a "one-sided beat down" that "most good stuff comes from plant stuff" are flawed.
I made no such similar assertion about Paleo being the answer, I only responded to your assertions and statement that the blog had the best proof you know of for your set of beliefs and you'd like me to provide evidence to the contrary. I find the underlying data in that blog somewhat unreliable as support for the assertions made and I did provide alternative peer reviewed sources, including the links in Dr. Ead's site which I have read and it appears you may not have.
I'm not convinced that "meat" is evil. I am convinced that processed meat is not good in that it does have a proven higher associated risk of colorectal cancer - not all cancer. I've seen no similar evidence for other types of meat. There are studies on the Inuit that date back to contact and the rates of cancer are extremely low despite a diet based predominantly on meat and fat. http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
And meat is a pretty big category to blacklist on scientific evidence. There is evidence that fish may lower bowel cancer risk and chicken is recommended as an alternate to too many servings of red meat. How the meat is cooked is a factor too.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence
http://www.cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/cancer-101/what-is-a-risk-factor/diet/meat/?region=on
And I'm not here to convince you of anything in particular. Eat what you want. The only part that is a bit annoying is when someone professes to have the answer but hasn't actually done the research to back it up. There is a self-reinforcing bias if you are looking for research that supports your belief. Get's worse if someone is trying to sell something. Sorting through it all takes time and even then I don't believe we have a definitive answer overall. Just what is really bad, and what generally works better for some people and enough evidence that exercise is important and genetics are strongly linked to risk.
I personally hold the unproven belief that animals that lead happy lives and eat well are better for me to eat, I admit I have not done the research to back this up but I'm okay to act on that for ethical reasons anyway.
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems. I imagine they would have seen major improvements with any drastic dietary switch that included more vegetables/lean proteins and less processed foods/sugars, regardless of the underlying philosophy. But maybe the Paleo diet was easier for them to stick with, and thus could be deemed more successful? Do whatever works for you.
I haven't found this assertion to be supported by evidence, even anectodal. Of course overweight people with a poor diet are going to experience improvement losing weight and improving their diet. However, many people who are healthy to start with have also experienced health benefits from Paleo including:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/18/the-amazing-waist-slimming-wallet-fattening-nutrient/
It might end up being another fad diet with a hidden dark side - who knows - remember when eggs were bad? It is clear that that it has been useful for many already relatively healthy people. I don't think the studies are really definitive.
http://authoritynutrition.com/5-studies-on-the-paleo-diet/
https://www.google.ca/search?q=paleo+science&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&ei=wnahVoCmDeWh8weq7q6YDQ
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I've recently become quite interested in nutrition. I don't know what diet is best but I think it is good to read up and change up your diet and see how you feel.
I agree but the jury is basically out on this stuff now. The scientific research pretty clearly states that a high meat diet is unhealthy. So are bad carbs. So is bad fat. Good fats and carbs and proteins are good for you.
Most good stuff comes from plant foods. Atkins/Paleo etc are all low carb/high meat diets that put the odds against you with regards to heart disease, cancer and lots of other diseases.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian but honestly do the research. It's a one sided beat down when it comes to long term health.
What studies are you relying on for these assertions? I'd like to read them. I've read a fair bit that contradicts this information as well.
The best site on the web is http://nutritionfacts.org/.
Basically though the evidence is overwhelming when it comes to the best diets to protect against food related diseases. I'd like to see any thing you can find that contradicts what I've stated. Facts should always provide the basis for making these decisions but from what I can see it's a one sided beat down. The facts that are perpetuated by the low carb community (Atkins/Paleo) etc aren't really facts. They are just anecdotal evidence. There will be a study or two stating that what they are doing is correct but it will probably be a massive twist of the actual study or completed by an interest group.
Thanks, I'll read through it. Here is some of what I've read that supports a paleo diet as being good for disease control and long-term health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/faq/#meat
You question the veracity of other studies (ones using real science on a large scale) yet include links that is one Drs opinion (third link) and another (first link) that talks about how limited it is. None of these links you posted address increased cancer risk.
I think it is pretty clear that some of the studies relied upon in the blog link you provided as the best of the "overwhelming evidence" for a "one-sided beat down" that "most good stuff comes from plant stuff" are flawed.
I made no such similar assertion about Paleo being the answer, I only responded to your assertions and statement that the blog had the best proof you know of for your set of beliefs and you'd like me to provide evidence to the contrary. I find the underlying data in that blog somewhat unreliable as support for the assertions made and I did provide alternative peer reviewed sources, including the links in Dr. Ead's site which I have read and it appears you may not have.
I'm not convinced that "meat" is evil. I am convinced that processed meat is not good in that it does have a proven higher associated risk of colorectal cancer - not all cancer. I've seen no similar evidence for other types of meat. There are studies on the Inuit that date back to contact and the rates of cancer are extremely low despite a diet based predominantly on meat and fat. http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
And meat is a pretty big category to blacklist on scientific evidence. There is evidence that fish may lower bowel cancer risk and chicken is recommended as an alternate to too many servings of red meat. How the meat is cooked is a factor too.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence
http://www.cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/cancer-101/what-is-a-risk-factor/diet/meat/?region=on
And I'm not here to convince you of anything in particular. Eat what you want. The only part that is a bit annoying is when someone professes to have the answer but hasn't actually done the research to back it up. There is a self-reinforcing bias if you are looking for research that supports your belief. Get's worse if someone is trying to sell something. Sorting through it all takes time and even then I don't believe we have a definitive answer overall. Just what is really bad, and what generally works better for some people and enough evidence that exercise is important and genetics are strongly linked to risk.
I personally hold the unproven belief that animals that lead happy lives and eat well are better for me to eat, I admit I have not done the research to back this up but I'm okay to act on that for ethical reasons anyway.
You are confusing me with Stevio, my friend.
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Sorry. Not sure how that happened.
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Here is a New York Times article about how scientific evidence suggests starches were consumed by prehistoric man and that the consumption of starches played a large role in the evolution of man. Much evidence suggests that the Paleo diet was concocted without true evidence of the diet of prehistoric man and just used the fringe diets (think Eskimos with 99% meat diets,etc) of the few hunter gatherer species that remain. These people didn't win the exolutionary contest and that's why they lived at the margins of earth and were not integrated into the dominant society.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/science/for-evolving-brains-a-paleo-diet-full-of-carbs.html?_r=0
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Paleo - what a crock. People overthink this stuff, most often because they don't exercise enough.
Been climbing, back country skiing, road/mt biking, and hiking for 40 yrs. Follow Michael Palin's advice (Omnivore's Dilemma):
Eat food (real food, not processed), not too much, mostly vegetables.
If you push your body you need carbs to perform, simple as that. Keep the sugar down, moderate alcohol, avoid processed food. And exercise at least 5 days a week. Cheers
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From what I can tell Paleo is as much a "crock" as you decide it to be if you don't do your own research or try it out yourself. I'd be much more inclined to pay attention to your views if you had tried it first or had credible research on the adverse health impacts.
What you are doing works for you. Great. Probably would work for others too. No reason to change if you are not interested in it.
There is; however, a large body of anectodal evidence that supports low processed, low alcohol, low carb, low sugar, higher vegetable, higher fat and higher protein diets bringing good results for people too - whatever you want to call it. The only difference between what you've followed and this diet appears to be the take on carbs.
As for the label "Paleo", I don't believe that the reason for the success rate for this diet for many people is because they are eating like cave people. It likely is partly because it is an improvement on their current diet, but I think the focus on fat is interesting. Fat used to be bad for you. Now it is good for you. I'd like to experiment with that because I happen to like fat and I don't much care about carbs - I can do without them.
My point is not that a low carb diet is the only way to go, but that the scientific and anecdotal evidence does appear to support the health benefits of this type of eating. I'm convinced enough to give it a try and see if I have any benefits. Why not? If it isn't good for me I won't keep doing it and it is good to have a set of eating rules and patterns with health in mind.
I don't want to convince you to do it but I also dislike the dismissal of any diet without strong, credible scientific backing. Your diet can be good for you and you don't have to call something else "crap" just based on belief.
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Wait. There will be another hipster urbanist trend soon enough.
Yea - I'm a scientist - "a large body of anectodal evidence....
Oh, now I'm convinced
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Anecdotal evidence usually precedes scientific research. If you scroll up you will see that I've posted links to some of the existing scientific research on this. Read it first please before personally attacking and labelling me. I have no interest in engaging in an exchange of personal insults when the question is one of what is the current state of our knowledge on this topic. Focus on this, do some research, and if you find something that is identifies clear health concerns and substantiates your "crap" statement get back to me. If it is correct that would be valuable information.
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MOD NOTE: I would like to remind everyone of the forum rules of attacking an argument, not a person. If you do want to engage in debate and a sharing of ideas than stay at the top of Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/forum-rules/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/forum-rules/)
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Anecdotal evidence usually precedes scientific research. If you scroll up you will see that I've posted links to some of the existing scientific research on this. Read it first please before personally attacking and labelling me. I have no interest in engaging in an exchange of personal insults when the question is one of what is the current state of our knowledge on this topic. Focus on this, do some research, and if you find something that is identifies clear health concerns and substantiates your "crap" statement get back to me. If it is correct that would be valuable information.
But what about the more proven than anectdotal evidence that red meat causes cancer? A poster who eats paleo earlier says he eats bacon for breakfast everyday (fits into paleo.) Would you suggest that his/her diet is healthier than a breakfast that fits into the Mediterranean diet? Is there any non anectdotal evidence that 100% whole grains (without added sugar) cause health problems in people who aren't celiac or diabetic? Paleo is far better than the typical American diet. It relies far too much on animal protein/animal fat to be ideal, imho.
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The insanely popular Paleo diet, which shuns dairy, legumes, grains, and processed junk foods in favor of nuts, meat, and other foods said to be preferred by our ancient ancestors, has suffered a major blow. In its annual Best Diets Rankings, U.S. News and World Report placed it dead last, based on input from a panel of health experts.
The panel assessed 35 different diets based on a number of factors including nutrition, safety, ease of adherence, weight-loss friendliness, and protectiveness against diabetes and heart disease. Among some of Paleo's criticized points: It's hard to sustain, too high in fat, and shuns entire food groups often thought to be healthy.
The way science typically works is that a theory is proposed - such -as the Paleo diet thingy, then proponents carry the burden of proof, not the other way around.
Some of us had a good laugh on a climb recently where a friend brought two other friends who were seeped in the Paleo thing. Despite being 20 years younger than all of us we pounded them into the ground on the 6k ascent and then skied back to the car. I think we waited 1.5 hrs for them to join us at the car while we enjoyed our carb-infested IPAs. Cheers!
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There is; however, a large body of anectodal evidence that supports low processed, low alcohol, low carb, low sugar, higher vegetable, higher fat and higher protein diets bringing good results for people too - whatever you want to call it. The only difference between what you've followed and this diet appears to be the take on carbs.
This is what kills me. The evidence against the Paleo diet is pretty significant. I also don't know why people continue to come up with anecdotal stories that just don't cut it because there is a massive amount of evidence that a high meat based diet leads to diseases like cancer and heart disease.
Carbohydrates are not the issue if we are trying to be mature about the topic. By mature I mean of course a high carb diet of ice cream is bad for you but surely that isn't what people are suggesting. Good quality carbohydrates are good for you though. Too much meat causes cancer and it causes insulin spikes which is supposedly a key issue that you are meant to avoid on a Paleo diet. Legumes and beans are one of the healthiest foods that you can possibly eat and yet the Paleo diet says they are bad for you.
To be fair I don't know why I even respond because there will be some link to some dodgy non scientific site that will pile on the palava stating Paleo is healthy when it's clearly not. The argument that this is what we ate during the Paleo times is also crazy. I mean who cares because all that matters is what is healthy and its also something that was quite simply made up.
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Exactly. The urban hipster diet de jour. Just wait long enough and another will pop up. The paleo, or any other diet can best be summed up as - Eat less, exercise more.
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I'm wondering if someday there will be a personal nutrition test. The results would tell you what you, personally, should eat for maximum health.
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I think the most interesting thing about this thread is that the people who have seen tremendous benefits from switching to Paleo diets were people who were substantially overweight and had diabetes or other health problems. I imagine they would have seen major improvements with any drastic dietary switch that included more vegetables/lean proteins and less processed foods/sugars, regardless of the underlying philosophy. But maybe the Paleo diet was easier for them to stick with, and thus could be deemed more successful? Do whatever works for you.
For my part, I have no specific dietary philosophy or strict rules, but my diet could best be described as a mediterranean diet. We eat whole grains like farro and barley, we make our own bread, we eat yogurt and occasional cheese, beans, lots of veggies, meat or fish a couple times a week, and very little sugar. It's all about moderation. If we have a big italian meal and over do it on the carbs one day, we'll balance with a big salad or a fritatta the next. We maintain our weights and seem to be healthy, so I see no reason to change.
I think that might be a bit of a stretch for this forum.
But in any event - I read a book several years ago by an obesity doctor. Book was "Refuse to Regain" by Dr. Barbara Berkeley. Her dietary recommendations involve minimizing carbs.
In her experience and studies, she found that people who are "POW" (previously overweight) metabolize carbohydrates very differently than people who are "NOW" (never overweight). Even by virtue of having been overweight or obese, you can permanently change how your body is affected by carbohydrates. Not being a medical professional, I have to assume it's related to insulin resistance. I read the book a long time ago and purged it. Kind of wish I'd kept it.
At the time, I didn't have a weight problem and was running a lot. I only found that I had to cut my starchy food intake from 6 to 2 servings per day after baby #2 and after 40. I no longer have the time, nor the joints, for sustained high impact workouts.
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I'm wondering if someday there will be a personal nutrition test. The results would tell you what you, personally, should eat for maximum health.
I swear I recently read somewhere that there is one already... but of course, who knows if it's the real deal.
I'd like to point out that what works for you will change as you age, too.
My personal favorite philosophies, so far are-
1. Luise Light "What to Eat". She led the USDA group tasked with developing the food pyramid in the 1980s. She quit in frustration. What was eventually released bore little resemblance to what her team of experts recommended, based on results of actual studies.
Not surprisingly, I like it because it doesn't eliminate much.
- Grains: whole only, 1-2 servings/day for women, 3-4 for men
- Fruits and vegetables: 5-9 or more per day, organic if possible
- Eat natural fats
- Eat wild fish
- Eat free range / anti-biotic free meats
- avoid processed foods
Etc...
(Note, I was very resistant to cutting my starchy foods from 6 servings to 2, until I read this book.)
2. On that note, Jules at Stonesoup has joined the "paleo" bandwagon, but she has edited it to include beans and dairy.
3. Dr. Mark Hyman and his "pegan" (Paleo-Vegan), does not demonize beans.
http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/11/07/pegan-paleo-vegan/
4. Dr. Joel Fuhrman - well, of course he's pro-vegan, but he does not demonize fat or meat completely like many of the other Vegan docs do (Barnard, Esselstein, etc.) When I hear "plant-based diet" and see the demonization of wild fish and good fats, it drives me a little batty.
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I must say I'm pretty surprised by the responses in this thread. Though I am relatively new, I've generally seen nothing but support for people on various threads on a variety of topics (except for the obligatory face punches). Here however, many posts seem rather condescending in tone. While it is pretty common on other sites for people to be critical of other people's diet choices (i.e. most people will vehemently defend their own choice regardless of any support to the contrary), I was surprised at the smugness represented above. Now, if the comments were along the lines of "that's really expensive to maintain and competes with my financial goal of X" I could somewhat understand. Oh well, I suppose it is good to know that people are consistent.
For the record, we follow a "paleo / primal / whole food / don'teatshitprocessedfood / don'tbelievewhatthefoodindustryshovesdownyourthroat / whatevernameyouwanttocallit" diet and it has been nothing but great for our family. In fact, I could not even begin to put a price tag on the health benefits we have reaped from it. I would encourage anyone to do the research on their own to determine what is best for themselves, but please, go a little deeper than a U.S. News and World Report article. LOL!
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My apologies if any of my comments were tone deaf. And one final point - my primary problem with the paleo diet, if taken literally as it is presented - is that there is no science behind it. I'm a scientist and so fact based. As posted above by others - there is no scientific reason to disparage whole grains and beans, for instance, and quite a lot of very solid science to show why it is beneficial to avoid red meat, or at least to keep it to an occasional meal. All this of course is predicated on non-food allergy assumptions.
The second thing that is very non-scientific is that rather than just concentrate on the items that are proven to be science based and beneficial to your health, Americans seem to glom on to whatever-the-latest-media-trend of the day is put in front of them.
Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants. And get you butt out there an exercise - more than you think you need to. It's really not rocket surgery.
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My apologies if any of my comments were tone deaf. And one final point - my primary problem with the paleo diet, if taken literally as it is presented - is that there is no science behind it. I'm a scientist and so fact based. As posted above by others - there is no scientific reason to disparage whole grains and beans, for instance, and quite a lot of very solid science to show why it is beneficial to avoid red meat, or at least to keep it to an occasional meal. All this of course is predicated on non-food allergy assumptions.
The second thing that is very non-scientific is that rather than just concentrate on the items that are proven to be science based and beneficial to your health, Americans seem to glom on to whatever-the-latest-media-trend of the day is put in front of them.
Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants. And get you butt out there an exercise - more than you think you need to. It's really not rocket surgery.
I'm sorry if I sound condescending as well but the facts are clear cut on this point and it's so easy to find it out.
The science against a high meat low carb diet is really clear and it's not good for you.
The science for eating legumes and beans is really clear and it's really good for you.
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The science against a high meat low carb diet is really clear and it's not good for you.
The science for eating legumes and beans is really clear and it's really good for you.
Please link your sources for each of these.
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The science against a high meat low carb diet is really clear and it's not good for you.
The science for eating legumes and beans is really clear and it's really good for you.
Please link your sources for each of these.
I provided a site that provides these details previously within the thread. There is now a tonne of evidence linking meat consumption to diseases and that legumes and beans are amongst the healthiest foods that you can eat.
You are welcome to go and do some research on this. It is pretty easy to find solid scientific studies that back up my comments. Its not one or two anecdotal studies either.
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The science against a high meat low carb diet is really clear and it's not good for you.
The science for eating legumes and beans is really clear and it's really good for you.
Please link your sources for each of these.
I provided a site that provides these details previously within the thread. There is now a tonne of evidence linking meat consumption to diseases and that legumes and beans are amongst the healthiest foods that you can eat.
You are welcome to go and do some research on this. It is pretty easy to find solid scientific studies that back up my comments. Its not one or two anecdotal studies either.
I agree with Steveo. What are even the claims against eating beans? I would say Paleo minus the red meat might be an interesting diet to discuss. Paleo with the red meat and it's so outside of scientific understanding that it tends to rank in the bottom 10% of 'healthy' diets. Traditional Paleo is still 100x better than typical western diet. It's just loaded with unhealthy red meat and apparently allows daily consumption of processed meats as demonstrated by the daily bacon eater.
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I provided a site that provides these details previously within the thread.
You did. My apologies. I admit I didn't read every post as most contained the same drivel I've read before.
You are welcome to go and do some research on this.
I have. Both as an undergrad and as a grad student, but even more so recently. I'll just state that my observations/conclusions are different.
Sorry again for missing your link. :)
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-evolutionary-guide-revised-on-what-to-eat-1453306447
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I must admit, the paleo diet has never appealed to me. For starters, some of the bans just don't make a lot of sense: no beans?! I sort of get the general philosophy but the meals that come out of it are bizarre. How can sausage and bacon for breakfast every day be so much better than truly whole grains? Some of it is the usual problem with all dietary guidelines of people following the letter of the law, rather than the spirit.
Second, I have BIG ethical problems with the paleo diet. It relies hugely on imported food (e.g. Coconut products) and on meat meat meat. We are not hunting this meat any more, we are farming it. That has a totally different impact from shooting an elk in the Alaskan wilderness.
Third, it's just not very nice! All the example meal plans I see end up being really boring and not very pleasant! I'd much rather eat your average vegan meal than your average paleo meal on taste alone.
Finally, to chip in my own anecdotal evidence, I find eating a lot of meat (like every day) kinda clogs me up inside (if you know what I mean...). My main dietary motivation is ongoing digestive problems (mostly resolved through discovering specific intolerances, and most of the remaining problems are my own stupid fault for eating too much carb-n-sugar combos and cheese, but there's still that bit left that won't quite go away). Do all you paleo people never have a problem digesting all that meat? I find myself feeling much better inside on a whole grain and veg diet.
ETA: Re-read the OP's question. I used to suffer from IBS and some associated joint pain and fatigue issues and did the FODMAPS elimination plan to discover which foods were causing my problems. I would STRONGLY recommend a full elimination of all suspect foods (gluten and dairy at a minimum) for a substantial period of time (I think I had to do ten weeks, and didn't see a change until week four, then started feeling SO much better) and then a graded reintroduction. I found out that gluten was not a problem at all but excessive dairy made me feel wretched. I haven't eliminated it but I've cut right back. However, had I just "gone paleo" (or whatever other diet) I would have been cutting out gluten too for no reason. Also, my major food intolerance is the alium family (onion, garlic, leeks) and that's not a very "standard" one to have, so I might have missed it if I'd just adopted a diet wholesale.
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I need to write up a blog post on this...
Quickly:
I am a physician
I thought the gluten free/paleo piets were sensationalized bullshit
I've since changed my mind
In short, when I experimented with hard core paleo I felt great. I didn't realize how food was affecting me until I got rid of a lot of it. I don't know if it's the gluten, pesticides, fermentable carbohydrates or whatever, but I had many low level problems get better or disappear. My headaches decreased by a factor of 10, GERD went away, seasonal allergies gone, and overall GI system just felt better. It was pretty fucking mind blowing to be honest - and I'm a very skeptical suspicious person. It was not placebo. It was dramatic 'WTF' levels of change. Ultimately I couldn't do paleo to the letter, just lowered my hunger to the point I couldn't get enough calories in. It is an awesomely scary way to lost weight by the way. I will come back to this thread and throw a link up when the article is finished, as I think many here may be interested.
To the original question: If I had an autoimmune or chronic inflammatory condition I would go to diet as a first line treatment. I would cut out all dairy and gluten at a minimum for 30 days and see how it affected me. I have personally known people with inflammatory arthritis that is much better on a gluten free diet.
Disclaimer: I'm not your doc. This is not medical advice. This is what I would do for me. Think for yourself and don't necessarily listen to random people on the internet! ;)
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I must admit, the paleo diet has never appealed to me. For starters, some of the bans just don't make a lot of sense: no beans?! I sort of get the general philosophy but the meals that come out of it are bizarre. How can sausage and bacon for breakfast every day be so much better than truly whole grains? Some of it is the usual problem with all dietary guidelines of people following the letter of the law, rather than the spirit.
Second, I have BIG ethical problems with the paleo diet. It relies hugely on imported food (e.g. Coconut products) and on meat meat meat. We are not hunting this meat any more, we are farming it. That has a totally different impact from shooting an elk in the Alaskan wilderness.
Third, it's just not very nice! All the example meal plans I see end up being really boring and not very pleasant! I'd much rather eat your average vegan meal than your average paleo meal on taste alone.
Finally, to chip in my own anecdotal evidence, I find eating a lot of meat (like every day) kinda clogs me up inside (if you know what I mean...). My main dietary motivation is ongoing digestive problems (mostly resolved through discovering specific intolerances, and most of the remaining problems are my own stupid fault for eating too much carb-n-sugar combos and cheese, but there's still that bit left that won't quite go away). Do all you paleo people never have a problem digesting all that meat? I find myself feeling much better inside on a whole grain and veg diet.
ETA: Re-read the OP's question. I used to suffer from IBS and some associated joint pain and fatigue issues and did the FODMAPS elimination plan to discover which foods were causing my problems. I would STRONGLY recommend a full elimination of all suspect foods (gluten and dairy at a minimum) for a substantial period of time (I think I had to do ten weeks, and didn't see a change until week four, then started feeling SO much better) and then a graded reintroduction. I found out that gluten was not a problem at all but excessive dairy made me feel wretched. I haven't eliminated it but I've cut right back. However, had I just "gone paleo" (or whatever other diet) I would have been cutting out gluten too for no reason. Also, my major food intolerance is the alium family (onion, garlic, leeks) and that's not a very "standard" one to have, so I might have missed it if I'd just adopted a diet wholesale.
Okay, just my personal experience, but, first, paleo meals are as tasty and attractive as you want to make them, veggies, fruits, nuts, fish meat whatever. And most paleos don't eat all raw, so you get to cook the ingredients however you want to. The only thing a vegan would eat that a paleo wouldn't is the bean-based meat replacements. So your paleo meal should look at least as good as the vegan meal, unless tofu is particularly visually attractive to you.
About getting 'clogged up' as you put it, I had exactly the opposite experience. Paleo got me normal like nothing else, and in just a few days. No more alternating constipation with runs, no more nasty farting. Man did that improve my life.
The primary thing for me was the wheat. Nothing else made as big a difference. I could eat milk or beans and not notice a change, but go back to bread and pow, back to farts and constipation.
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I need to write up a blog post on this...
Quickly:
I am a physician
I thought the gluten free/paleo piets were sensationalized bullshit
I've since changed my mind
In short, when I experimented with hard core paleo I felt great. I didn't realize how food was affecting me until I got rid of a lot of it. I don't know if it's the gluten, pesticides, fermentable carbohydrates or whatever, but I had many low level problems get better or disappear. My headaches decreased by a factor of 10, GERD went away, seasonal allergies gone, and overall GI system just felt better. It was pretty fucking mind blowing to be honest - and I'm a very skeptical suspicious person. It was not placebo. It was dramatic 'WTF' levels of change. Ultimately I couldn't do paleo to the letter, just lowered my hunger to the point I couldn't get enough calories in. It is an awesomely scary way to lost weight by the way. I will come back to this thread and throw a link up when the article is finished, as I think many here may be interested.
To the original question: If I had an autoimmune or chronic inflammatory condition I would go to diet as a first line treatment. I would cut out all dairy and gluten at a minimum for 30 days and see how it affected me. I have personally known people with inflammatory arthritis that is much better on a gluten free diet.
Disclaimer: I'm not your doc. This is not medical advice. This is what I would do for me. Think for yourself and don't necessarily listen to random people on the internet! ;)
I have a friend who is a PA. She used to roll her eyes at her patients who went gluten free, thinking it was a useless fad.
Then she tried it. Mind blowing how much better she felt. How much better her digestion was...
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Boom. Don't knock it til you try it. It's been around long enough its not a fad anymore. It actually works.
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It's just loaded with unhealthy red meat and apparently allows daily consumption of processed meats as demonstrated by the daily bacon eater.
How can sausage and bacon for breakfast every day be so much better than truly whole grains? Some of it is the usual problem with all dietary guidelines of people following the letter of the law, rather than the spirit.
...
Third, it's just not very nice! All the example meal plans I see end up being really boring and not very pleasant! I'd much rather eat your average vegan meal than your average paleo meal on taste alone.
As the "daily bacon eater", I'll chime in to say that my bacon only contains 2 ingredients: pork belly and salt. Not processed. As far diet being "loaded with unhealthy red meat", we eat chicken and fish more than we do pork and beef, so you're totally off-base yet again. I find this to be true with the majority of Paleo/Primal eaters that I know (and I know quite a few through the Crossfit community).
@shelives, look back a few posts and check out the lunch I posted. Lemon pepper chicken, Chinese broccoli stir-fry, pressure-pot garlic sweet potatoes, and clementines. Does that looks boring and not very pleasant? Most of our meals are like that: spicy chicken, saute/roasted veggies, some form of sweet potatoes, and a fruit or 3.
Edit: I've attached a nutritional facts label of what a typical day looks like to this post.
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If I throw my chocolate bar in the bush and have to forage for it, does that make it Paleo?
Sorry. I couldn't help it. Thanks to PCOS induced IR (insulin resistance) I'm always one step away from Diabetes. So low carb is a way of life with me. You should see how my sugar shoots up if I eat pasta or rice (yes, even whole grain).
Breakfast: varies every week, sometimes it will be a Keto muffin, egg fritta, breakfast sausage ball
Lunch: 2 cups of veggies including leafy greans, this is about 90% of my daily carbs.
Snacks: almonds, walnuts, cheese sticks. If I'm feeling decadent I'll make myself prosciutto cover mozzarella sticks for my post-workout snack
Dinner: lean meats (DH doens't like beef or steak too much) and usually a veggie of some sort
Sweets: low carb popsicles, or "fat bombs" sweetened with Stevia. I'm not a big fan of synthetic sugars so I try to only use these is extreme craving emergencies.
This is pretty fascinating. I read a blog of a woman with diabetes. She did a short-lived period of time of low carb, and had a really hard time with her insulin. She was used to giving herself a lot more, but needed less, and at different times, when she was low carb.
Insulin is spiked via eating meat.
That's interesting because her meat intake did not change, she just cut back on carbs.
So her normal breakfast would be, for example, eggs and carbs. She would aim for a particular blood sugar level and give herself a certain amount of insulin before her lunch time workout.
When she cut the carbs, her blood sugar was a lot lower when she checked it - so, for example, she'd end up taking less insulin and/or skipping her workout.
My insulin has never spiked eating meat. But my meat intake did not change with my diet - only my carb intake and my fat intake went up about 20% (no issues so far with cholesterol or blood pressure) and I've never heard of meat causing anyone's insulin to spike as long as it wasn't covered in a sugary glaze. I'm certainly not advocating eating steak 3x a day but lean meats with veggies is one of the easiest and healthiest meals for someone with IR or diabetes.
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People love to say this diet is the best or that one. The bottom line is EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT! Some people will be fine eating nothing but jolt and pixie sticks. Some will appear fine and drop dead from hidden conditions. Others will have horrid issues. Yet others will only have moderate problems. In the end everyone needs to find the diet that works for them.
For those still demonizing fat I suggest checking out the following book (link provided for reference, feel free to borrow from your local library, friends, etc). It should help and realize it is written by a scientist and cites many clinical studies.
Know your Fats
http://smile.amazon.com/dp/0967812607
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People love to say this diet is the best or that one. The bottom line is EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!
I'd be interested to know whether anyone has ever done a study looking at whether an individual's optimal diet is linked to their ancestry. It seems that America would be the ideal place as you are all relatively recent immigrants from somewhere or other. (Yes, 300 years is recent in the grand scheme of things!) Do people who are gluten intolerant have ancestors primarily from low-gluten places? Ditto lactose intolerance. I know it's a bit wishy-washy and self-reported, but do people who feel better on the paleo diet have a meat-eating-heavy country of ancestry, and the inverse for people who feel better as vegans?
I was wondering why everyone is different and remembering some studies I read about with many Asian people not being able to digest alcohol well because they don't have the gene for it. Could it be the same for, say, Scots and gluten? (Well-known oat-eaters that they are...)
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For those still demonizing fat I suggest checking out the following book (link provided for reference, feel free to borrow from your local library, friends, etc). It should help and realize it is written by a scientist and cites many clinical studies.
Know your Fats
http://smile.amazon.com/dp/0967812607
This is another good point. Somehow fats got a bad rap in the '80s and there was this (non-scientific) push for zero fat products. The problem is that the industry made up for this by adding sugar to everything. Take a look at the label for any non-fat yogurt from the major manufacturers. This is like giving your kids dessert - unless you go with something that has no sugar or artificial sweetners (Nancy's nonfat).
Regarding different diets for different folks, that also has some truth. But widespread, unscientific generalizations, such as the Paleo diet being healthy, are just not true.
Anecdotal information such as - "I feel great using the Paleo thing" doesn't offer much from an objective scientific review. Lots of folks say they feel great eating McDonalds five times a week.
Here's a couple of concise reviews that explain some of the details with reference to other studies.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/01/michael-pollan-paleo-diet-inquiring-minds
http://www.nutritionaction.com/daily/diet-and-weight-loss/shed-pounds-on-a-paleo-diet/
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For those still demonizing fat I suggest checking out the following book (link provided for reference, feel free to borrow from your local library, friends, etc). It should help and realize it is written by a scientist and cites many clinical studies.
Know your Fats
http://smile.amazon.com/dp/0967812607
This is another good point. Somehow fats got a bad rap in the '80s and there was this (non-scientific) push for zero fat products. The problem is that the industry made up for this by adding sugar to everything. Take a look at the label for any non-fat yogurt from the major manufacturers. This is like giving your kids dessert - unless you go with something that has no sugar or artificial sweetners (Nancy's nonfat).
Regarding different diets for different folks, that also has some truth. But widespread, unscientific generalizations, such as the Paleo diet being healthy, are just not true.
Anecdotal information such as - "I feel great using the Paleo thing" doesn't offer much from an objective scientific review. Lots of folks say they feel great eating McDonalds five times a week.
Here's a couple of concise reviews that explain some of the details with reference to other studies.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/01/michael-pollan-paleo-diet-inquiring-minds
http://www.nutritionaction.com/daily/diet-and-weight-loss/shed-pounds-on-a-paleo-diet/
I don't think anyone claims to feel good eating McDonalds 5 times a week...
There will never be good data regarding diet, it is just an impossible experiment to do using randomized control trials. It is all natural experiments ( like looking at immigrants that change their diet) and observational data. Pollan discusses this at length in one of his books. There is actually quite a bit of pretty scary studies regarding gluten, although again - tough to do really great controlled studies. If you are waiting for robust randomized controlled studies you may as well never change your diet...they are not coming to a theater near you any time soon.
Based on the preponderance of the evidence I would minimize sugar and grains in my diet, and if I had any kind of autoimmune/inflammatory/allergic condition I would go "hair on fire" crazy and radically eliminate things from my diet until I figured out what, if anything was the offending agent.