Camper van - adventure mobile

[slugsworth]

I'm considering a small van for weekend trips, occasional road trips, etc. This might be worthy of a face punch, but I really don't know, which is why made this post.

I'm hoping someone with background in this niche might point me to some resources to read, any models that aren't money pits that can sit 3+ and are low maintenance, general compatibility for small families. I was looking at Ford Transit Connect  conversions. Thoughts?

Background: family of 3 including a fresh baby, with a reasonably high savings rate, good sized stash in a hcol area and primarily drive to the mountains, beach, etc but might also take this to visit family.

[Wrenchturner]

Low maintenance isn't really a thing with RVs.  Being really handy will help.  Consider renting one first so you have some idea of what you are getting into.

RVs are not built for full time living so they can be disappointing--mainly due to build quality issues.  Not saying it can't be done, just saying you should do some research and keep your glasses from turning rose-colored.

The Sprinter/Transit vans are pretty practical but they are quite expensive.

[MayDay]

Oh man. Some babies this would work fine with but being stuck in a van with a baby is my idea of hell.

I have run the numbers and it's beyond me how it pencils out unless you live in the thing. Do you have a price point in mind?

[jeninco]

We bought a VW Euro-van when our first was 3 months old -- short version is that we looked at each other and said "how will we ever get out again", and went and bought the thing. We did some research, but there weren't many deals to get on them: VW had just re-introduced them to the US, so the choices were engines too small to get us to the mountains at highway speeds or buy something new.

We've loved it.

We bought the weekender package, so no closets, no countertops, but the back seat folds flat as a bed (or to carry 4 X 8 plywood sheets) and the top pops up containing another bed. It's also easy to pop the top and then lift the front half of the upper bed, which makes a space tall enough to stand in. We live in Colorado (AKA it doesn't rain here much) and do most trips to Colorado and Utah, so chose on the principal of "if the weather sucks too much to cook outside, get a motel room."

It gets decent, not great, mileage. It's really, really easy to set up for sleeping: our kids never enjoyed car travel, so for longer trips we'd have dinner at home, put them in their PJs in their carseats, and drive until we were too tired to drive more, then pull off, pop the top, and be sleeping before the engine fan turned off. It's fairly comfortable for long trips, and the extra space in the cabin (along with the popup table) means it's comfy for, say, putting on ski boots, and also we can sit around the table and have lunch (or just take a break) like real civilized human beings. We've gone skiing (both backcountry and at small area, where it really shines) more times then we can count, and taken it on car-camping trips to the desert dozens of times. When the wind picks up in the desert it's really awesome to be able to get out of the blowing sand for a break!

It's also super-convenient that multi-day backpacks for the 4 of us just line up across the back deck, which makes it easy to get going both on skis and hiking boots. It's a small thing that we can all just grab our packs, but it's lovely. It's 2WD, but we've driven it carefully down all manner of not-really 2WD dirt roads. We carry a shovel, just in case we need to do a little road work.

I'm irritated that VW doesn't bring in the TDI/synchro combination, because I'd buy that one immediately, as it has 4wd + better mileage. Right now the car is going on 20 years old and the transmission is purportedly starting to go, and I have no earthly idea what we're going to replace it with.

My suggestion is to do your best to assess what you realistically are going to do. We've found that having the van (and having it pre-loaded with lots of things) reduces the inertial hurdle to getting out and doing stuff, and has definitely been worth it. We sort of got in the habit of going on a trip a month (or more), so it was relatively easy to just get everything packed up and go. The more you don't go, however, the harder it is to go: you'll forget stuff the first time, etc. etc.  Also, with small kids, I highly recommend making some shakedown trips nearby, so if you have to bail it's not too big a deal.

[I'm a red panda]

I was looking at sprinter vans and had no idea people were paying the price of a small house for these things-  $70k+ for the conversion plus $40k or so for the van!  Used models were running between $80k and $140k!  EEK

Unless you are living in it full time, I'd just rent, even if the daily rate is kind of high.

[stoaX]

I was looking at sprinter vans and had no idea people were paying the price of a small house for these things-  $70k+ for the conversion plus $40k or so for the van!  Used models were running between $80k and $140k!  EEK

Unless you are living in it full time, I'd just rent, even if the daily rate is kind of high.

Very true - when I first looked at the prices of campervans I was shocked.  I bought a lightly used 2010 Ford E-150 converted by Pleasureway back in 2014 and the asking price was over $50k!  So yeah, jumping up to the Sprinter style only exacerbates the price problem.

One way to combat that is to watch a bunch of youtube videos and do the conversion yourself...but that comes with it's own challenges.

[stoaX]

One thing to consider is the size - do you want it big enough to stand up in?  Or small enough to put in a garage?  Because I didn't think of it until it was too late, I ended up with one that I couldn't stand up in but at 7 feet high wouldn't fit in the garage. 

Mrs. stoaX and I do love it for short camping trips, long trips mixing both camping and hotels, and more often than not, the joy of using it for daytrips.   It's nice to have the "kitchen" for both meals and coffee making.  And not having to use a foul fast food joint bathroom, state park outhouse or beach toilet, but rather your own clean port-o-potty is quite nice.

[I'm a red panda]

I was looking at sprinter vans and had no idea people were paying the price of a small house for these things-  $70k+ for the conversion plus $40k or so for the van!  Used models were running between $80k and $140k!  EEK

Unless you are living in it full time, I'd just rent, even if the daily rate is kind of high.

Very true - when I first looked at the prices of campervans I was shocked.  I bought a lightly used 2010 Ford E-150 converted by Pleasureway back in 2014 and the asking price was over $50k!  So yeah, jumping up to the Sprinter style only exacerbates the price problem.

One way to combat that is to watch a bunch of youtube videos and do the conversion yourself...but that comes with it's own challenges.

Man, my dream of a campervan was pretty shortlived... We needed space + seat belts for 4, so it's fairly limited.
Rentals it is for us; even those $300+ per night can also be hard to swallow...

[Aegishjalmur]

DW and I live full-time in a Ram promaster high roof van we converted into an RV. So, few things- 1). PVC tubing can be used to make a light weight bed frame so even if you just get a minivan you can make a bed with understorage. 2) instead of the heavy wood cabinets you see on Pinterest or Instagram, we used wire shelving and zip ties to attach to the frame( 250 lb tensile strength zip ties are awesome).

Once we are done traveling we can just pull everything out and will use the van until it dies.

[JoJo]

I'm a single and I've been spending a few months each of the last 2 years in a Ford Transit connect.

With 3 (might you add another? if so consider that). Other big question is do you need a bathroom, shower? 

Here are the 3 routes you might want to go:
1.  buy a cargo van and update yourself, this is the cheapest way.  New vans the size you need are around 35K.  For toilet, it's a portable or a bucket with this choice.
2. buy a cargo van and pay for the update.  I've seen beautiful updates but they can run as high as 35K.
3.  buy a class B RV - these are the vans, many new ones are 80K+, and the market for used isn't much better, they are really hot now.
4.  buy a class C RV - these are a bit bigger, but for a growing family may be best.  Still can get less than 24 footer.  The used market for this seems a bit more buyer-friendly.

But in general, RV market is a sellers market right now due to COVID.  I had been thinking to buy before this all happened, I'm now hopeful that some people are way overpurchasing now and when COVID ends they will realize they didn't need it so a future buyers market?

I've written a bit about my van camping experiences, my trip to Alaska last summer was awesome!  https://thehotflashpacker.com/van-camping/

[mm1970]

I think it probably depends on your lifestyle and how much $ you have and how much you'd use it. 

I can see that a campervan makes it a lot easier to go out and do things.  My neighbors bought/ had built a Sportsmobile campervan.  They use it a LOT, but they have the flexibility to do so.  They've had it a long time...10 years maybe?  Weekend camping trips, longer trips (they are trying to hit all of the national parks), and most summers they go somewhere for at least a month, if not all summer.

And we learned one weekend when camping with them that it sleeps 7.  Our tent was blowing down, so they put their family of 5 in the top and my hubby and son in the bottom (I slept in our hatchback).  If you keep it mostly packed, it can be relatively easy to get up and go.  For us, we have a small car and a tent, so to pack up for us takes a day or two (Thule box and rack, packed to the gills, etc.)  Thus, we don't go often.  And actually, our personality is to not go often anyway. 

Vans have the added advantage of being able to sleep in them in inclement weather, plus you can do dispersed camping on BLM lands.  I don't think they have had quite the number of problems that come with regular RVs (my sister has had many RV problems).  Their van has a sink, fridge, but no bathroom.  It was probably at least $100,000.

How much would you use it?  Could you rent first and see?  As an aside, my family of 4 spent July 4 with a friend who had kayaks.  He took the boys out in the harbor.  Hubby came home itching to buy a kayak.  Dude, we aren't gonna use it. We WANT to be that kind of family, but we aren't. So, a month later I bought him a 12 hour punch card for kayak rental.  We have used 4 hours.  I bought him the punch card 6 years ago.  I think we are going to use 2-3 hours next week, take the kids out on a weekday.

[jeninco]

I think it probably depends on your lifestyle and how much $ you have and how much you'd use it. 

I can see that a campervan makes it a lot easier to go out and do things.  My neighbors bought/ had built a Sportsmobile campervan.  They use it a LOT, but they have the flexibility to do so.  They've had it a long time...10 years maybe?  Weekend camping trips, longer trips (they are trying to hit all of the national parks), and most summers they go somewhere for at least a month, if not all summer.

And we learned one weekend when camping with them that it sleeps 7.  Our tent was blowing down, so they put their family of 5 in the top and my hubby and son in the bottom (I slept in our hatchback).  If you keep it mostly packed, it can be relatively easy to get up and go.  For us, we have a small car and a tent, so to pack up for us takes a day or two (Thule box and rack, packed to the gills, etc.)  Thus, we don't go often.  And actually, our personality is to not go often anyway. 

Vans have the added advantage of being able to sleep in them in inclement weather, plus you can do dispersed camping on BLM lands.  I don't think they have had quite the number of problems that come with regular RVs (my sister has had many RV problems).  Their van has a sink, fridge, but no bathroom.  It was probably at least $100,000.

How much would you use it?  Could you rent first and see?  As an aside, my family of 4 spent July 4 with a friend who had kayaks.  He took the boys out in the harbor.  Hubby came home itching to buy a kayak.  Dude, we aren't gonna use it. We WANT to be that kind of family, but we aren't. So, a month later I bought him a 12 hour punch card for kayak rental.  We have used 4 hours.  I bought him the punch card 6 years ago.  I think we are going to use 2-3 hours next week, take the kids out on a weekday.

I want to reinforce this: you and your partner need to have a couple of honest conversations about how much you'd really, really use such a thing. And then, if you get one, you need to get in the habit of really, really using it. Don't be the person who buys a super-expensive <item> because you want to be the kind of person who gets out and uses <item> and then ... not be.  Also, consider what you really need and will use -- as I mentioned, we opted out of the cooking setup: it makes the complication level much higher (now you need exhaust fans, and a CO monitor, ...) , and the weather's generally pretty good in the places we're going to be. (We did have a little immersion heater that plugs into the second battery, in case we had a cocoa-requiring emergency with small kids.)

What do you honestly need? (OK, "need": this is MMM) What will you honestly use? Can you get the same results other ways? Is there a way to try it out? If you do a couple of rentals (especially of different types of vehicles) you might get a sense of what is helpful/useful for you and what isn't. We have friends who really love their pop-ups for camping with kids at state parks.

Also, as a complete side note, I have vetoed all high-profile vehicles: I've driven our Eurovan on I-80 through Wyoming just before they closed the highway for high winds, and it's tough to express how much that sucked for me. Be aware. Although, that reminds me -- you're not JUST going to be camping in the thing, you also have to drive it there. Try some different vehicles out and see what you think: we've avoided your typical 4WD jeeps because the driving 5-9 hours to get to where we'd be on 4WD roads seems quite not-fun.

[I'm a red panda]

How much would you use it?  Could you rent first and see?  As an aside, my family of 4 spent July 4 with a friend who had kayaks.  He took the boys out in the harbor.  Hubby came home itching to buy a kayak.  Dude, we aren't gonna use it. We WANT to be that kind of family, but we aren't. So, a month later I bought him a 12 hour punch card for kayak rental.  We have used 4 hours.  I bought him the punch card 6 years ago.  I think we are going to use 2-3 hours next week, take the kids out on a weekday.

OMG- I purchase so much for my fantasy self.

I think our tandem kayak has been used 12 times...  Now that my daughter is 3 though, my husband is starting to take her out in it more; but a kayak is cheap compared to a van... so it's nice to be able to easily go out without the hassle of renting.  But this is SUCH good advice.  Are you SURE you are going to use it? What's the cost per use? 

It's like buying a motor boat...it's rarely a good idea.

[mm1970]

How much would you use it?  Could you rent first and see?  As an aside, my family of 4 spent July 4 with a friend who had kayaks.  He took the boys out in the harbor.  Hubby came home itching to buy a kayak.  Dude, we aren't gonna use it. We WANT to be that kind of family, but we aren't. So, a month later I bought him a 12 hour punch card for kayak rental.  We have used 4 hours.  I bought him the punch card 6 years ago.  I think we are going to use 2-3 hours next week, take the kids out on a weekday.

OMG- I purchase so much for my fantasy self.

I think our tandem kayak has been used 12 times...  Now that my daughter is 3 though, my husband is starting to take her out in it more; but a kayak is cheap compared to a van... so it's nice to be able to easily go out without the hassle of renting.  But this is SUCH good advice.  Are you SURE you are going to use it? What's the cost per use? 

It's like buying a motor boat...it's rarely a good idea.

I want to reinforce this: you and your partner need to have a couple of honest conversations about how much you'd really, really use such a thing.

I have another story!!  Actually, when I met my husband, he'd gotten sucked into this "vacation plan".  Think: like a timeshare, only it's a big, group, generic plan.  He'd put his card in a bucket at a bar, and "won", and you know everyone wins those things.

Now, I have nothing against timeshares if you want to use them.  Or vacation plans with Hilton or whatever.  I LOVE that I can flat out rent a condo from someone else who has been saddled with the timeshare they don't use.  I almost got to go to the Bahamas to use a friend's.  She has two timeshares (and actually used hers every year).

So, he has this vacation club where he paid $3000 up front, and then $400 a year, for a "free" vacation each year.  So many places to choose from.

He literally never used it.  So we used it for our honeymoon.  Yep, after joining and paying probably the $3000 plus $400 a year for 5 years, we got to stay for free in a crappy condo for our honeymoon.  (We showed up at the condo and they didn't have our reservation.  We showed them our reservation # and they let us stay anyway.  Turns out ... this was pre-cell phone...the company had upgraded us to a 5-star resort, and had called my almost-husband.  Two weeks after he left his apartment in California to come get married.  So we never knew until he checked his messages a month later.  Fun times.)

There was a class action lawsuit years later.  We got a check for $184.  Ha.


Likewise, I really was looking at a teardrop trailer for camping years ago.  Easier than a tent.  I went down the rabbit hole:
1. The teardrops that are small enough to be towed by a Matrix (1000 lb-ish) will sleep 3.  It's basically a bed, and a back that pops open with the kitchen (a cooler).  These were affordable.
2.  However, I was pregnant.  So we'd need to sleep 4.
3.  Start looking at something that would sleep 4.  That requires a bigger car, so you'd need something that will tow more.  So, an SUV, minivan, etc.

That was 8 years ago, and I am still driving the Matrix.  For our camping trips (every 2 years), we instead bought 3 camping cots for comfort.

[slugsworth]

Jeninco, awesome story - what you've got is basically what I would like - and yeah, I wish someone was importing their euro vans to the US.

We've found that having the van (and having it pre-loaded with lots of things) reduces the inertial hurdle to getting out and doing stuff, and has definitely been worth it.

This is my hope.

Unless you are living in it full time, I'd just rent, even if the daily rate is kind of high.

Yeah, not interested in living in it - and not interested in a sprinter. Basically I want something pretty tiny. Poptop no bathroom, minimal kitchen, no need to stand up - though that would be nice.

Aegishjalmur, thanks for the tips. My goal is to no as little build out as possible. I've renovated a house and the build out of an RV, while cool is just going to keep me from being in the mountains!

JoJo! We met at a meetup once, in Seattle, I remember your blog! I'll look it over - option #2 is basically what we are thinking. Obviously lower cost would be ideal - but $35k is probably the upper threshold of what I would consider!

No plans to enlarge the family any further!

2. buy a cargo van and pay for the update.  I've seen beautiful updates but they can run as high as 35K.

[slugsworth]

Jennico and mm1970, I fully agree - there is absolutely no use buying something for the 'aspirational' you - communication is key and yes absolutely renting before buying is a very good idea.

With a baby our family is now pretty different - in the past we would go backpacking or bike touring. We have hopes of continuing those sorts of adventures but realize there will be a lot more car camping in our future- hence the campervan.

The base vehicles I'm eyeballing are:
-Ford Transit Connect
-dodge promaster city 'wagon'
-mercedes metris
-nissan nv200 looked like it didn't have an option for a second row of seats, but there is a company called recon that apparently had crash test rated back seats that turn into beds

My ideal would be too but a vehicle with somewhere between 0-60,000 miles and for the conversion to not cost $20k if we can help it. I guess renting will help us decide what features are necessary and which aren't. I would love to hear the thoughts of any weekenders though.

[dblaace]

I have a Ram Promaster City. I use it for my daily driving as well as camping. It gets 26 mpg so not to bad. Only thing I've done is put a rug down in the back and a cot. It's the same size as the Connects and works ok for a single person but it would be really cramped with more.

I would rather have a truck with a topper or camper on it though.

[stoaX]

In addition to deciding if garage-ability is important or not, determining if the ability to fit into a normal size parking space is another criteria for your search.  I'm glad I didn't go bigger than my Ford E-150 van for that reason.  And also when I think about some of the small, windy roads that I have driven it on...  But we are a family of two, not three. 

[the_fixer]

We were / are set to FIRE in 2021 and planned to travel, bike, hike and explore and wanted something that would do a better job of towing our trailer that would be our primary domicile while traveling.

I looked at trucks, I looked at the new style sprinter / transit vans and eventually ended up buying a GMC savanna cargo van.

The sprinter was way too expensive when configured to tow our trailer, the ford transit with the eco boost would have been right at the max capacity when towing / loaded and was also pretty expensive.

The older body style of vans are cheap and plentiful, they are not cool or in style so can be had from a few thousand on up.

Mine had 3,600 miles on it and was 2 years old with the remaining factory warranty and it came in just over 18k. It will have a minimal build just enough to make it good for a few nights while out MT biking or hiking but will basically be for towing the camper, bikes, kayaks and stuff for the road.

Plenty of people turn them into nice little weekend campers and can be done pretty quick / easy. They have AWD versions and different motors so you can focus in on what is more important to you mileage, towing or being able to get back on 4x4 trails.

Might be worth a consideration, you can pick them pretty cheap for an older one with some miles to affordable for a newer one like I got.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloodaxe]

I'm considering a small van for weekend trips, occasional road trips, etc. This might be worthy of a face punch, but I really don't know, which is why made this post.

I'm hoping someone with background in this niche might point me to some resources to read, any models that aren't money pits that can sit 3+ and are low maintenance, general compatibility for small families. I was looking at Ford Transit Connect  conversions. Thoughts?

Background: family of 3 including a fresh baby, with a reasonably high savings rate, good sized stash in a hcol area and primarily drive to the mountains, beach, etc but might also take this to visit family.

Minivan with air mattress? If you already have a minivan, just need the mattress :)

[honeybbq]

check out r/vandwellers on reddit

[slugsworth]

I would rather have a truck with a topper or camper on it though.

I've considered this, but trucks are pretty expensive and I haven't seen any campers that really got me excited - and with the possible exception of a diesel I'm not going to see remotely good mileage from a truck with a camper. Happy to hear otherwise!

I have seen some modified promaster cities for rent, so I'll definitely try that as you do have me a little nervous on space.  We are backpackers and used to small spaces so our perceptions might be different.

The older body style of vans are cheap and plentiful, they are not cool or in style so can be had from a few thousand on up.

I'll definitely review this option - sounds like you've got a pretty good post fire plan! I'm really hoping not to tow anything!

Minivan with air mattress? If you already have a minivan, just need the mattress :)

Definitely an option - that and some car camping equipment. I don't have a vehicle long enough for either adult to sleep in right now (attempts have been made) - but there is a real appeal to not having to pack anything and to make it slightly more comfortable/easy with the kiddo.

K_inSoCal, thanks it sounds like you had a sweet ride!  But yeah anything based on the sprinter or really anything that big is more than I want. I'm not too concerned about sleeping 4, I just want two adults and a kid to fit in there!

   I won't buy a Mercedes van again, as everything is more expensive to maintain

One of the vehicles that seems like a popular conversion is the Mercedes metris, any intel on it? Or won't have the lift issues that a bigger vehicle would have, but I am nervous about the maintenance costs.

[APowers]

Now, if only they made something like this anymore. *sad face*
If I was in the market for a weekend/car camping vehicle for 1-2 adults + 1-2 kids, I would absolutely fantasize about one of these. 4' shorter than a Suburban, easily sleeps 3 (two in the large main bed + 1-2 in the pop-up), 20mpg, AWD optional, giant sliding bay door....



Although........given what you're looking at spending on a nearly new van, you could easily price yourself into camper-Vanagon-with-a-Subaru-engine-conversion territory (~$15-20k)....

[Wrenchturner]

Now, if only they made something like this anymore. *sad face*
If I was in the market for a weekend/car camping vehicle for 1-2 adults + 1-2 kids, I would absolutely fantasize about one of these. 4' shorter than a Suburban, easily sleeps 3 (two in the large main bed + 1-2 in the pop-up), 20mpg, AWD optional, giant sliding bay door....



Although........given what you're looking at spending on a nearly new van, you could easily price yourself into camper-Vanagon-with-a-Subaru-engine-conversion territory (~$15-20k)....

I have a soft spot for the Vanagons too.  The popup roof is a big plus!

[APowers]

Now, if only they made something like this anymore. *sad face*
If I was in the market for a weekend/car camping vehicle for 1-2 adults + 1-2 kids, I would absolutely fantasize about one of these. 4' shorter than a Suburban, easily sleeps 3 (two in the large main bed + 1-2 in the pop-up), 20mpg, AWD optional, giant sliding bay door....



Although........given what you're looking at spending on a nearly new van, you could easily price yourself into camper-Vanagon-with-a-Subaru-engine-conversion territory (~$15-20k)....

I have a soft spot for the Vanagons too.  The popup roof is a big plus!

I learned to drive in one when I was 15, as it was the family car at the time. The only minivan that could seat all 9 of us (well, 8.5, as the middle seat on the front bench was pretty cramped for legroom, so it was reserved for one of the smaller non-carseat kids). It could seat 10 without stretching too much, which we did sometimes. And we went camping with it (though ours wasn't a camper, so we packed a ginormous tent or two)...enough cargo space for all 9-10 of us, plus about 7 bikes strapped on the front bumper's bike rack. I'm really sad that there isn't any kind of equivalent vehicle sold today. IIRC, they're rated as a 1-ton vehicle, so you literally can load them to the gills with people and stuff, and they just....keep going. They're not fast (though with a Subaru engine swap, I bet they're plenty peppy!), but we didn't have any issues keeping up on the freeway. Now I'm stuck browsing craigslist and wishing I had $20k to burn on an adventure van.

[Wrenchturner]

I'm really sad that there isn't any kind of equivalent vehicle sold today. IIRC, they're rated as a 1-ton vehicle, so you literally can load them to the gills with people and stuff, and they just....keep going. They're not fast (though with a Subaru engine swap, I bet they're plenty peppy!), but we didn't have any issues keeping up on the freeway. Now I'm stuck browsing craigslist and wishing I had $20k to burn on an adventure van.

Pleasureway was carrying the torch to some degree, they have this guy out but it's 73k MSRP.  Honestly I think it's all the safety regulations making vans huge and expensive that's making these difficult to build and sell.  Winnebago has one out as well called the Solis, 101k, and there's one by a Quebec company called 5 Mars.  All poptops built on a promaster chassis.

[stoaX]

The mini van with an air mattress is a good idea.  But you will have to address the issue of ventilation.  2 or 3 people sleeping in the van with the windows up will result in a lot of moisture.  Windows slightly open can let the bugs in.  If you go this route, get creative with some screening material.

[JoJo]

The mini van with an air mattress is a good idea.  But you will have to address the issue of ventilation.  2 or 3 people sleeping in the van with the windows up will result in a lot of moisture.  Windows slightly open can let the bugs in.  If you go this route, get creative with some screening material.

I created two front window screens with one of these plastic mesh things that are meant to pop into a rain gutter, cost like $1.50 each:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax-Home-Products-3-ft-White-Snap-In-Filter-Gutter-Guard-86270BX/100520851

then I cut it out to fit the window, I also had to cut out a small piece since the windows are round, you can either super glue or wire to the big cut out piece.


Edited:  I don't use the often.  There are some places where the condensation from just me means the ceiling is completely soaked when I wake up.  Luckily I don't have insulation or other areas that seem to retain the condensation.  My mattress and bed don't seem to ever feel damp.

[47%MMM]

Now, if only they made something like this anymore. *sad face*
If I was in the market for a weekend/car camping vehicle for 1-2 adults + 1-2 kids, I would absolutely fantasize about one of these. 4' shorter than a Suburban, easily sleeps 3 (two in the large main bed + 1-2 in the pop-up), 20mpg, AWD optional, giant sliding bay door....



Although........given what you're looking at spending on a nearly new van, you could easily price yourself into camper-Vanagon-with-a-Subaru-engine-conversion territory (~$15-20k)....

As the owner of a '90 Vanagon with a Subaru, I can confirm they are awesome (except in high winds that an earlier poster commented on with the Euro van) but I think your pricing is a little low right now. The Subi conversion is going to cost you ~$15K alone so if you find a Vanagon for $15-20K, you're asking for a lot of other issues to deal with.

In my family there are 4 of us, the two kids sleep up top. We do manage to use it a lot, even going for hikes it's great to bring for the sink and the cassette toilet we put in there but the entire purchase is still a face punch worthy deal. That said, for the memories and the happiness it brings I'll work another year.

[slugsworth]

Pleasureway was carrying the torch to some degree, they have this guy out but it's 73k MSRP. 

I've found a few others for less, peacevansmodern.com and a few others make a metris poptop, the metris weekender is 'official' with Mercedes even smaller that is a Nissan poptop, https://www.reconcampers.com/

I don't understand how 30 year old vw's hold their value so well when they have such notorious mechanical issues.

If it was just the two of us, there are a few companies doing internal furnishings for ~$7-8 but none of those will accommodate seating for more then 2.

[47%MMM]

Pleasureway was carrying the torch to some degree, they have this guy out but it's 73k MSRP. 

I've found a few others for less, peacevansmodern.com and a few others make a metris poptop, the metris weekender is 'official' with Mercedes even smaller that is a Nissan poptop, https://www.reconcampers.com/

I don't understand how 30 year old vw's hold their value so well when they have such notorious mechanical issues.

If it was just the two of us, there are a few companies doing internal furnishings for ~$7-8 but none of those will accommodate seating for more then 2.

Your research into alternatives is answering why they are holding their value.

[DireWolf]

Sportsmobile offers a popup top install for around $8500, restricted to certain vans. If you can find a used van on their list, have them do the top, and then outfit the rest yourself, it might be reasonable by comparison.

Wish VW would bring back their pop ups.

As much as I’d love a van, I’m probably gonna end up with something towable like an Opus or Cricket or Flyer Pursue.

[APowers]

Pleasureway was carrying the torch to some degree, they have this guy out but it's 73k MSRP. 

I've found a few others for less, peacevansmodern.com and a few others make a metris poptop, the metris weekender is 'official' with Mercedes even smaller that is a Nissan poptop, https://www.reconcampers.com/

I don't understand how 30 year old vw's hold their value so well when they have such notorious mechanical issues.

If it was just the two of us, there are a few companies doing internal furnishings for ~$7-8 but none of those will accommodate seating for more then 2.

Your research into alternatives is answering why they are holding their value.

Yup. There just *aren't* any other vehicles on the market that can match the VW van for practicality, capacity, and versatility in a "shorter than a minivan" package.

[Dicey]

We just bought a new-to-us 2012 Serenity by Leisure Travel. It's a Sprinter chasis. We only used it once before Shelter In Place orders came down. DH has used the time to work through it and feels it's pretty fiddly and expensive as hell. And he has mad DIY/mechanical skills. He's owned an RV before and did shitloads of research before deciding what to buy. We're also FI/RE and made a good profit on our last flip project, so buying this rig won't derail our budget, but damn, some of the costs are insane. And there are lots of gotchas engineered into the Sprinter.

I'm posting under the influence of insomnia, so let me add this before I hopefully drift off. There's a vlog rabbit hole called Keep Your Daydream that is very informative. They change rigs frequently and have a ton of helpful content. They recently had a teardrop setup that you might find interesting.

Also, our own Mr. Green is on the simple van conversion path right now. He likes company.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/after-money-comes-time/

[Jack0Life]

I wish VW would sell these in the US. I would seriously think about getting one.

[shadowmoss]

Go to cheaprvliving.com and look for van builds in the forums.  There are lots.  Look on YouTube for that same named channel and then search for no build van builds.  Search for HOWA ( Home On Wheels Alliance ), which is a non profit by the same folks, and who build out minivans and donate them to homeless women (mostly as that is Bob Wells' mission) to get ideas.  Most of the builds will be set up for a single person but it is a good way to see the pros and cons of building out an RV on a standard vehicle.

[shadowmoss]

As an alternative, go to the Cruise America site and look at their used class C RVs.  They are totally reconditioned and quite nice.  For your budget you can probably find a nice one there.

I live in my 21yo class A full time with my cat and have been rv living for about 5 years.  I live around Phoenix, which is the used RV capital of the US I think.  I would always buy used.

[scottnews]

I agree with spartana.    The worst case scenario is a day long down pour.   Are you going to stay in the van the whole time or go to town to get some ice cream/coffee.   I’d go into town.    In this case, a cabin tent is no different than a van.  Its the same with a couple hours of down time.  Watch a movie, read a book, nap, whatever, these can be done in either a tent or van.  Get some cots and sleeping pads, and you will be comfortable.

You may have to tear down in some bad weather, but that won’t add up to the maintenance another vehicle would require.

Check out kodiak canvas tents.    We are a family of 3 and car camp from a Prius C, bring our bikes, sleep with cots in a cabin tent, and enjoy the flexibility it offers with low cost.

[the_fixer]

Typical white cargo van. I want to call it Vanna White wife wants to call it great white and paint shark jaws on the front.

Made a slide out bike tray yesterday

Mounted my ARB fridge / freezer fits nicely between the seats


Put in some insulation and started on the floor


Hope to mount the tray, flooring, tie downs, and water tank before our next trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jeninco]

I agree with spartana.    The worst case scenario is a day long down pour.   Are you going to stay in the van the whole time or go to town to get some ice cream/coffee.   I’d go into town.    In this case, a cabin tent is no different than a van.  Its the same with a couple hours of down time.  Watch a movie, read a book, nap, whatever, these can be done in either a tent or van.  Get some cots and sleeping pads, and you will be comfortable.

You may have to tear down in some bad weather, but that won’t add up to the maintenance another vehicle would require.

Check out kodiak canvas tents.    We are a family of 3 and car camp from a Prius C, bring our bikes, sleep with cots in a cabin tent, and enjoy the flexibility it offers with low cost.

Not the OP, but this may depend on exactly where you're going -- in parts of the Utah desert where we'd want to be camping for a week or so at a time the roads become impassable during a rainstorm. We'd be far, far better off sleeping/reading/chilling until several hours after the rain has ended and the road has recovered from being expanded mud.

In fact, we've been in that situation. Which is why I really, really wish VW would bring back the vans!
(Our previous desert vehicle -- when there were just 2 of us -- was a 73 Chevy Blazer, with a convertible soft top in the summer. We took out the back bench seat, which left a fair amount of room for stretching out in the back, although we couldn't stand in it.)

[Just Joe]

Have you considered smallish camper trailers? Popup tent trailers or smallish fiberglass trailers like the Scamp?

https://www.thepopupprincess.com

[Financial Ascensionist]

Full time nomad here.  I think it greatly depends on where you go. 

Where I go, I can find cheap short term rentals most of the time.  When I can't, I'm sleeping in a tent for weeks at a time.

Last time I did the math, it was clear that the purchase price of a pre-converted van combined with the poor gas efficiency meant that I would only save a few thousand dollars compared to short term rentals.  Given the huge bump in comfort of living in a house with a bed, an oven, and a shower, I prefer slightly the more expensive option.  If you can do the conversion yourself, then you would obviously save more. 

If you only use the thing part-time, you won't save anything.  I would advice you to invest in a top-of-the-line mattress pad, a powerful dual burner camp stove, and a set of earplugs.  It's very possible that you will find tent camping to be very pleasant and sustainable at a fraction of the cost of a van.

[JoJo]

@Financial Ascensionist any tips on where you find your cheap short term rentals?  I use Airbnb but the fees are high, and lots of locations have quite expensive rentals. 

[Jack0Life]

I've been looking up on camper vans for a while too.
Me and the wife might take 3-6 months next year and drive around the US.
For us, we were looking at 3 options.
1) Buy a smaller camper van. Like a NV200. https://www.caravanoutfitter.com/new-vans/
Its on the small side and since we will be sleeping it most of the time, this will probably be ruled out. Its on the high side too for $38,000 and very little space.
2) Buy a bigger class B van but these are expensive. Starting in the $60k and up. Its a bit expensive for us especially if we don't do use it often.
3) Buy a cargo  van and have a conversion. This is by far the best route. I found a couple of nice places that will do it for you for a reasonable price in Colo. They bases their kit on the RAM Promaster high roof and you can get a brand new one for ~$28k, about $8k below MRSP right now.

- https://wayfarervans.com/walter-camper-kit/ These guys have the best price. They can install a kit in a RAM promaster in less than 3 hours and it starts at less than $10,000. The basic, bed some shelves, kitchen section with sink. Add ons can be roof fan, swivel seats, dining table, windows, more storage and seats. I figure for what we want, it will be $12k-$13k. We like the minimal set-up. The bed can be tilted up. Lots of storage. Basically we would just need to add a portable power supple with solar, frig, and portable potty and we're good to go. I'm thinking $28k for the VAN and +$15k for the conversion. $43k total. The best part is the kit is all modular and you can take everything else and use it as transportion/cargo van on a normal basis. You can get used ones too but I figured if we are driving around for 6 months I want a van thats 100% fail-proof.

- https://dmvans.com/full-build These guys are have much nicer build and runs $19,500. You get as above plus swivel seats, windows, nicer kitchen, roof fan, auto faucet, electrical is included. Basically just add a portable potty for $50 and you're good to go. The finish is nicer too but its gonna be $5K more and I don't think you can take everyone out. Plus their build time will take much longer. One thing I do like their setup is the kitchen faucet can swing outside and you can wash yourself off is needed. Its pricier at just under $50k but the build quality is just as nice as any of the predone vans and those are all above $60k.

Planning to take a ski trip to Colo this Dec and swing by those 2 places possibly to see if we like it.
Yup we're gonna see if we can make it happen next year. Bring 2 small electric bikes with us and we should be good to go.

[Financial Ascensionist]

@JoJo , mostly Airbnb. You can always contacy the hosts, when you stay for multiple weeks, they are often happy to cut you a good deal. Don't shy away from rooms with private entrances. These are almost as good as a full appartment, especially when you have a good camp stove.

[Captain Cactus]

There is a good podcast series on family slow travel, called "Family Adventure Podcast".  Definitely worth a listen.  Some of the episodes interview people living in vans/RVs with their kids as they slow travel around the world.

[slugsworth]

I've been looking up on camper vans for a while too.
Me and the wife might take 3-6 months next year and drive around the US.

That's a good list, I've noticed needing that third seatbelt really limits the options pretty dramatically. If you don't want a Sprinter sized vehicle the poptop becomes essential to fit a bed in.

[slugsworth]

Full time nomad here.  I think it greatly depends on where you go. 

Where I go, I can find cheap short term rentals most of the time.  When I can't, I'm sleeping in a tent for weeks at a time.

. . .
If you only use the thing part-time, you won't save anything.  I would advice you to invest in a top-of-the-line mattress pad, a powerful dual burner camp stove, and a set of earplugs.  It's very possible that you will find tent camping to be very pleasant and sustainable at a fraction of the cost of a van.

I think your use case is pretty different from ours. We are very experienced backpackers and have months of experience sleeping in tents - and we might just get a big family tent and box of car camping stuff. Though that isn't ideal and we are replacing a car anyway.

Really we want to be able to sleep at/near a trailhead and not have the fiddle factor of setting up camp Friday night, breaking down camp Saturday AM - having a wet tent to dry out that first day, etc, etc. We aren't RV folks and airbnb's are great, but not where we want them.

[Dicey]

I only had time to click on one link, so I chose the last one. Seems Dave and Matty have a blog with lots of useful information. Here are just the two I clicked on and found interesting:

https://dmvans.com/blog/customer-review-renting-is-easy

https://dmvans.com/blog/the-irony-of-vanlife

[slugsworth]

I only had time to click on one link, so I chose the last one. Seems Dave and Matty have a blog with lots of useful information. Here are just the two I clicked on and found interesting:

https://dmvans.com/blog/customer-review-renting-is-easy

https://dmvans.com/blog/the-irony-of-vanlife

Thanks!! I hadn't seen the dmvans website before - they look like one of the few working too install extra seats into the promaster!

I have a few nomad friends, rv'ers, housesitters, bike tourists, thru hikers, and van lifers and your each of them is dealing with covid really shows how much those lifestyles are dependent on the communities around them.