Author Topic: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???  (Read 16827 times)

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2013, 03:48:20 PM »
Why does religion (or lack of) have to be involved anyway...isn't that what church is for?

I like 4H in that regard.

Southern Stashian

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2013, 07:45:18 PM »
Why does religion (or lack of) have to be involved anyway...isn't that what church is for?

I like 4H in that regard.

+1

We have had a great week with the scouts. We had a fundraiser at the church for the troop, but not once was being a member or joining it brought up. Everyone was really laid back and nice, with the parents of the boys not focused on religion which was a relief.

The boys (and some parents including me) served @ 175 people and did everything from setting it up to breaking it down and all of the cleanup. They definitely learned some food and customer service skills while doing it. My employer also let me use some of my community service time that they provide and paid me for being there. Gotta love that!

Today our son had his Boy Scout swimming certification at a local pool. We arrived to find out that it was going to be twice the distance that he expected to swim. He did so well that he inspired me to do it with him and we both passed! I have been having such a great time with him and the scouts that I'm now considering becoming an assistant scout master with another guy who is a recently retired Army Ranger. We'll see.

I'm finding that I'm really enjoying the Boy Scouts and its possibly due to becoming more Mustachien over time. Just like our future early retirement that took us a while to get on board with, being involved in the scouts is something that I missed as a child, but its possibly more enjoyable now as its with my son and the pressure of debt and money isn't looming over us. Either way, we're having a great time together.


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« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 04:10:19 AM by Southern Stashian »

Spork

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2013, 07:28:59 AM »
Why does religion (or lack of) have to be involved anyway...isn't that what church is for?

I like 4H in that regard.

In my area: the churches are generally the sponsors for scouts. 

rtrnow

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2013, 08:21:04 AM »
As others have said, so much depends on the individual troop. My scouting experience was great and a time I look back on very fondly. I'm in my mid 30's and still include Eagle Scout on my resume bc it was a big deal and took a lot or work to get. My first job interview consisted of a discussion of scouts that ended with a job offer. I'm also gay. So I have had my struggles with how and if to continue my support for the scouts. I'm glad to see they are becoming more inclusive and with time I'm sure it will get even better. I was approached about being a leader and quickly said that as a gay man I cannot do that. I also display an Eagle Scout plaque in my office where I'm also out. Acceptance is driven by more people understanding.

To the original question, scouts can teach some great life tools that fit with MMM very well, self reliance, money management, do it yourself projects, etc.

Southern Stashian

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2013, 10:17:37 AM »
As others have said, so much depends on the individual troop. My scouting experience was great and a time I look back on very fondly. I'm in my mid 30's and still include Eagle Scout on my resume bc it was a big deal and took a lot or work to get. My first job interview consisted of a discussion of scouts that ended with a job offer. I'm also gay. So I have had my struggles with how and if to continue my support for the scouts. I'm glad to see they are becoming more inclusive and with time I'm sure it will get even better. I was approached about being a leader and quickly said that as a gay man I cannot do that. I also display an Eagle Scout plaque in my office where I'm also out. Acceptance is driven by more people understanding.

To the original question, scouts can teach some great life tools that fit with MMM very well, self reliance, money management, do it yourself projects, etc.

Glad to hear that you had a great experience with the scouts despite their stance with homosexuality. Its a shame that someone is judged for who they are naturally versus what they contributed to the scouts (in your case becoming an Eagle), but like you I can appreciate it for the positive things that are gained from becoming a scout.

I would hope that the stance with gays is something that is not widespread throughout the organization, and just an agenda of a small group of closed minded people. If religion or homosexuality comes up to me tonight during our sit down about becoming an assistant scout master, I don't think that they will like my answer.

I just want to keep it about the boys and building and strengthening relationships, not what my preferences in religion and sexuality are - which is no ones business but mine.

I can see so many things in the scouts being inline with MMM - personal responsibility, being outdoors, helping others, money management, health and fitness and spending quality time with family .... among others. I just hope that personal choices don't get in the way of a so far great experience.

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RetiredAt63

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 11:16:46 AM »
Another Canadian perspective: (sorry, long, memories)

I didn't find my Girl Guides experience (a long time ago) or my daughter's Scouting experience to be particularly mustachian.  Guides and Scouts both emphasized doing things instead of buying things, so the basic is there.  They were interesting in other ways.  And as others have posted, a lot depends on the local leaders.

I did Sparks and Brownies in one town, they were fun and we did lots of camping.  We moved as I was moving up to Guides, and that lasted only a year, the fun (to me) parts were gone, we sat around and did semi-girlie things.  Back then (look at my name and do the arithmetic) shopping was not a past-time.

My daughter went into Beavers the first year Scouting in Canada went genderless - this was new and exciting and a bit scary to some, so we had two groups, one took in girls and the other stayed boys only, for the ones who wanted to stay an all-boys group. Same for Cubs. I was a leader for Beavers and Cubs (call me Akela).  My daughter tried Sparks and Brownies, too girly.  But again, local leaders - a friend was recruited as a Guide leader and lasted less than a year, because in our area the leaders didn't want to do the camping and so on.  I did all the nature stuff with my groups that she had wanted to do for the Guides, so it is a matter of priorities.  However, Scouting pushed it - in leader training courses (Woodbadge) we were told repeatedly to remember the OUT in ScOUting - get outside.  And we did - one year for Beavers (ages 5-7) we were outside for all four February meetings; temperatures ranged from +2C to -20C.

Re the original poster's issues - we met for Beavers in a church hall, for Cubs and Scouts in a school gym - basically whatever was available in the community.  No church involvement as such - hey, we were in Quebec, where even in a small "white-bread" town like ours there was lots of diversity.  I don't know if Scouts Canada has any sort of religious or gender orientation policy, it certainly never came up in training.  We did have the "god and country" in the oath, but that was pretty generic.  We did some things that were standard when I was young but are not now - we raised the flag and sang the anthem at the start of Cubs meetings (not Beavers, too young).  Most had never raised a flag, and most didn't know the words for the anthem - I did at 8, but back then we sang the anthem at school assemblies.  As good Canadian Cubs we always did the anthem bilingually ;-)
     Also, there should be training available to new leaders, and it is really worthwhile to push it.  I learned a lot in my training courses, they definitely made me a better leader.  I even used meeting planning for my daughter's birthday party one year, and it went really well.

My best memory of Scouts Canada's attitude was when my daughter came back from a Scouting jamboree, and told me all the fun things she had done with some Scouts from BC.  When she showed me pictures I realized the two she hung out the most with were of Chinese/Japanese origin - and this was so non-newsworthy that she never mentioned it.

Actually, the Baden-Powell Scouting in the US looks a lot like what we did.

For me the best part for both Guides and Scouts was the camping, being out in the wild, doing nature-oriented things.  If anyone is interested I can post a list of things we did.

MrsPete

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2013, 08:39:19 AM »
My siblings and I were all involved in scouting when we were kids, and my children have been involved in scouting.  It's been very good for all of us.  I genuinely use something that I learned (or had reinforced) in scouting each and every day. 

The key, however, is understanding that every troop isn't equal.  Some leaders are really great, seek out wonderful opportunities for their kids, plan good trips and service projects . . . and others just bring in coloring pages.  You'll find some troops that are very outdoorsy, others who focus on trips, others who are crafty.  As a parent, it's incumbent upon you to ask about what the troop has done in past years and determine whether this is a troop that fits your child's needs.  You can do this by asking the council office or the service unit for specifics beyond, "This is a troop for 4th-6th graders and it meets on Tuesdays."  Also pay attention to the meeting place.  In our area we have two churches that are VERY supportive of scouting, who provide excellent meeting rooms, storage closets, etc.  The best, most active leaders tend to be in these spots. 

As for the money, scouting is pretty low-cost compared to other kids' activities.  When my children took gymnastics, it was something like $60/month . . . in contrast, scouting costs more like $100/year.  Of course, that's off-set by fund raisers, but scout fund raisers are supposed to be activities that actively involve the kids -- for example, car washes, yard sales, or yard clean ups -- instead of sales of candy bars and wrapping paper.  Of course, this is going to depend heavily upon the leader and the troop into which you happen to fall.  Some troops do trips to Build-a-Bear and other expensive places, while others take part in near-free activities like touring the Post Office.  Again, it's all about making sure you get into a troop that supports your values.   

The one exception, of course, is Girl Scout cookies.  Someone commented that the girls only keep a small portion of the cookie sales.  This is true, but not really complete:  Cookies (in my area) sell for a whopping $4 per box.  The scout troop itself keeps .75 of each box, and the girls can use that for a camping trip or a service project or whatever.  That sounds bad.  BUT the council office keeps something like $2 from each box, and when you're talking about a council being half a state, you're talking about a great deal of money.  The council spends that money on camps.  These camps tend to have troop houses, platform tents, cabins, etc. that can be rented for $25/night.  Our council puts out a 350-page book every fall with LOADS of programs for troops.  Leaders don't have to seek out their own resources; they can just sign up for these programs.  They vary widely:  We've taken our scouts to the indoor climbing place, we've done an overnight at a history museum, we've taken them to high-adventure overnights where they completed high-ropes courses, we've done an overnight in a cave, we've attended womens' sports events at colleges . . . and so much more.  Also, the council has tubs that leaders can "check out" that are themed for various badges; these are big time savers for leaders.  This is all very welcome to the leaders because we can't all have resources for everything -- for example, when my troop wanted to learn archery, I didn't have a place to get equipment, etc., so I was glad to be able to sign up to attend a Saturday at one of our camps, knowing that everything was provided, including the trainer.  And these programs are all cheap for the troops; except for overnights, the programs are rarely more than $5/girl.  So council offices are using that money well. 

I personally think they've done less well in the past few years, but I think I believe that because my girls are older now.  They focus the majority of their programs on the elementary /middle school girls, girls who also make up the majority of the membership and who sell the most cookies.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:41:48 AM by MrsPete »

scrubbyfish

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2013, 10:53:18 AM »
I was using the search function to find a different topic, and came across this one. Very pleased to find it! My kid and I recently joined Scouts. We're in Canada where Scouts has been gay-friendly for some time, but I didn't want people to incorrectly assume we're anti-gay, so I've kept it private. I'm really relieved to hear how people on this thread are approaching this delicate issue, i.e., with thoughtfulness.

Anyway...  I agree 100% that Scouts differs dramatically from group to group, and that a group's "culture" depends very much on who is leading it. We landed in an awesome one on our first go, so I thought Scouts was amazing. Then I started attending events/camps/etc that went beyond our group, and found all the chaos, disorganization, bullying, defeatism, resignation, religion, etc. So, now I see *our* particular group as phenomenal -loving, kind, well-organized, really facilitating self-leadership in the kids, very aligned with Mustachiansim. It keeps the nationalism/religion/rites to an absolute bare minimum (just that which is required annually for investiture). And I see the larger organization as a bit of a write-off at this point in its journey, and one I would not recommend because of how I see kids affected (I'm a leader and have spent days and nights on-site). I have hope that it will eventually find its way to being a safe, supportive, leadership-building organization. In the meantime, I am very active with our own group so that new people can come to ours and also actively support kids' safety when at larger events. Several members of our group tried out up to 10 groups before finding and subsequently joining ours, so some others are experiencing the same.

Shop around, sign up for the group that reflects your values, then have an incredible time!

Gerard

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2013, 03:30:08 PM »
I was in post-hippie-era Scouts in Quebec (Canada) for years, and my dad was a troop leader. At the time I felt it was kinda square, and I didn't like that we wore uniforms. But looking back, boy, I got a lot out of it. We were all fairly poor, and without Scouts very few of us would have had any experience with canoes, or archery, or mountain hiking, or wilderness camping. And I learned a lot about self-reliance and the value of peer mentoring.

Reading the other comments, it's possible I was just very lucky and associated with a good group. Expenses were low (we collected newspapers to sell for recycling, and it's amazing how many dads will volunteer to drive the kids to camp if it means a weekend alone with mom). And I don't remember any homophobia or other forms of exclusion -- we were multi-faith slash non-faith, our members and leaders included developmentally delayed adults and one guy who'd had a really bad acid trip, and now that I think about it, one of our leaders once brought his boyfriend along to a jamboree for a weekend.

So looking back on it, hell, yes, Scouts helped form me in a positive way, in a lot of ways that overlap with my interpretation of Mustachianism. I haven't really thought about it for a while, so thanks, OP, for taking me down this trail!

LalsConstant

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Re: Boy Scouts ... A good foundation for becoming Mustachian later in life???
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2013, 11:25:51 AM »
Short answer is I think scouting or something like it is a good thing.

As for the BSA itself, I was actually excluded from one local troop for no being a member of the right religion.

And I am a heterosexual Baptist (a Protestant Christian denomination).  The point is their discrimination policies are highly localized and quite varied so you really have to find out what local practices are the written rules mean diddly.

I continued in Scouting through a faith based local organization that was the same idea only inclusive.   We even had an atheist member because they weren't allowed in the BSA troop either.