July: spend larger % of time posting in On-Topic forums

[Dicey]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

[use2betrix]

I think more members here need to read, re-read, then follow the MMM “Low-Information Diet” article.

Hypothetical question.  Let's say I have a brother that really believes in the Low-Information Diet but has little to no self control on this issue?  What is he to do?  : (

If he truly believes in it, then he’ll work to practice it. There’s a lot of actions you can take. For example, I hid ALL people on my Facebook that made any political posts, right or left. Probably 200-300 people. I also removed the “news” page from my phone. I also don’t do my best to avoid these conversations with friends and family.

[thd7t]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!

[MonkeyJenga]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!

Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.

[nereo]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!

Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.

Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both?   Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?

[MonkeyJenga]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!

Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.

Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both?   Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?

I joined this challenge, I support people participating in both areas! But I've seen quite a few comments over the years about the "journal folk" taking over, and not participating in the community, when the commenters don't participate in that part of the community! As if the non-journal threads have some inherent value and worth that the journals don't.

I do understand why people would stick to journals. You make connections there, the vibe tends to be different, and you're not dealing with arguments or repetitive questions. For people with limited time, it makes sense that they hang out there, update on their progress once in a while and check in with internet friends.

[LWYRUP]

hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too. 
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums.  Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)

My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.

I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts.  It cuts through a lot.  There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.

My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.

I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!

Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.

Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both?   Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?

I joined this challenge, I support people participating in both areas! But I've seen quite a few comments over the years about the "journal folk" taking over, and not participating in the community, when the commenters don't participate in that part of the community! As if the non-journal threads have some inherent value and worth that the journals don't.

I do understand why people would stick to journals. You make connections there, the vibe tends to be different, and you're not dealing with arguments or repetitive questions. For people with limited time, it makes sense that they hang out there, update on their progress once in a while and check in with internet friends.

I find the journals to be the opposite. Most are very long and difficult to follow without reading each from the beginning. Which can be a very time consuming thing compared to reading individual thread topics about a specific topic. Most also seem like discussion between friends who have lots of history and inside knowledge about each other  and I often feel odd posting in them...like I'm an intruder who doesn't get the jokes. That said I do follow some journals even if I rarely post in them, and really enjoy the sense of community and friendship they bring. But yes, I'm in camp @Dicey and miss some of the knowledge on individual forum topics that now only get posted in journals and are difficult to find.

That said I've rarely been posting in OT these days myself.

I hear you.  I am trying to solve that one by just picking reading some of the short ones.  I avoid the long ones.  I started a journal because I wanted to sort out my thoughts, and then I figured I should probably be sociable and read some others as well.  It can be fun to see someone else's journey over time.  But I definitely understand and feel the vibe of feeling out of place about making a comment on some longstanding poster's very long journal.  I do think when people "refresh" their journal from time to time that can help.  On the other hand, someone's journal is their journey so they should do as they wish. 

[Dicey]

Note: These are just my personal thoughts. Yours may differ. If so, I welcome your input. If we keep this conversation going and friendly, perhaps something good will come of it.

Full disclosure: I love the Journals section!
__________________________________

In pre-pandemic days, I was an active library volunteer. I've on the board of our "Friends" group for over a decade. We have donation bins in the library. We sort, collate and eventually arrange thousands of books for quarterly book sales. Right next to the bins is a table that has been designated the "Tutor's Table". Occasionally, a tutor will get pissed off when a volunteer works the bins while they have a student. Periodically one will complain to the staff.

First, the "Tutur Table is just to make sure that there's always one available. A tutor is free to use any open space anywhere in the library. Second, the tutors are completely independent of the library system. The library offers them a free, convenient space where they can ply their trade. Yup, the County Library System is completely absorbing the cost of the tutor's overhead, while the tutors are charging their pupils a pretty penny. WTF? On the other hand, the volunteers are giving their own time to raise money for the exclusive benefit of the library. In other words, the volunteers are raising money for the library, and the tutors are getting a free place from which to operate their own small business.* Nice for them, right?

This is kind of how I feel about people who don't venture out of the journals section, or their own journal**. I'd love it if people would "pay" a little rent for their free journal space by helping other FIRE seekers out. They are all intelligent people who have valuable life experience and lots of good advice to share. Plenty of people feel the way Sparty does - unwilling to wade into a 40 page long journal, and so the exclusive journalers' wisdom becomes confined to a small circle.

Sparty and I are old timers here (don't be fooled by her post count). We remember the days where there were lots of great conversations all over the place. Many prolific contributors did not have journals. Over time, anyone who could spin a decent yarn was told repeatedly they should start a journal, so many did. The most benevolent ones (again, IMO) continue to do both.

Hell, I have a crazy long journal. I'm reluctant to start a new one, because mine is full of dangling stories and half-told lies tales. Honestly, I can't believe I've kept it going this long.

*Note to side gig seekers - tutoring looks to have a lot of upside potential.

**Yes, I know no one's getting paid to journal, the way the tutors are (well, were, in pre-pandemic days), it's just an analogy.

[Buffaloski Boris]

I like the journals although I don’t bother with one. I find the topics elsewhere interesting and journaling isn’t my thing. I do wish that the old hands would be more welcoming to the new folks; yeah, it might be the 1400th time a question has been asked, but a new person doesn’t know that and it’s new for them. And exciting.

As for off topic, what can I say? It’s mostly politics. I intensely dislike politics as well as the sort of poor behavior it seems to bring along with it. Not to mention it’s usually the same arguments over and over and over and over. In the end the discussion accomplishes less than nothing. It doesn’t educate, it doesn’t persuade, and it doesn’t make the world a better place.

[MonkeyJenga]

Most also seem like discussion between friends who have lots of history and inside knowledge about each other  and I often feel odd posting in them...like I'm an intruder who doesn't get the jokes. That said I do follow some journals even if I rarely post in them, and really enjoy the sense of community and friendship they bring.

Friends with lots of history - like a community! That's my main point here. The journals are a community, and they are a part of the MMM community. To say that journal-only folk are freeloaders somehow, and not contributing to the forum community, is silly. To those who are afraid to post in long journals - people are super welcoming! And will often give quick recaps to anyone who doesn't have the time to read the whole thing.

Frankly, on some of my attempts to contribute more to non-journal sections, I ran into such baseless attacks that I got fed up with it, and one poster in particular. I didn't completely abandon non-journal threads, but I can understand why someone would prefer the friendly community of the journals.

[Buffaloski Boris]

Frankly, on some of my attempts to contribute more to non-journal sections, I ran into such baseless attacks that I got fed up with it, and one poster in particular. I didn't completely abandon non-journal threads, but I can understand why someone would prefer the friendly community of the journals.

I was wondering why I didn’t see you much outside the journals. Fair criticism; I run into it myself. My current site handle is a result of an encounter with the Officially Tolerant being tolerant of all views, except those that contradict their own of course. One of Officially Tolerant accused another poster of being a Russian troll.  So, I figured it was time to fess up to my role in the grand conspiracy for the Glory of Vlad and Mother Russia.

[MonkeyJenga]

I was wondering why I didn’t see you much outside the journals. 

A quick skim of my recent posts shows a decent mix, with a few gauntlets, some general discussion, and some post-FIRE threads, mixed in with catching up with journal buddies. But I probably wouldn't come back here regularly if it weren't for the journals, and they're by far where I've posted the most.

[MonkeyJenga]

Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P

I didn't think that was your view, sorry if it sounded like that. Dicey's comment came across that way, and I've seen other comments over the years about how journalers aren't "contributing" somehow. I totally understand missing how the forum used to be! That doesn't need to involve putting down the journal section.

I'm not posting as much here anymore in general. I've spent more time on other financial forums and in-person help. And as I referenced before, I've run into attacks so off-base and offensive that it really put me off the forum. At least that poster isn't here anymore. I basically quit some reddit FIRE subs for similar reasons.

[Dicey]

Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P

I didn't think that was your view, sorry if it sounded like that. Dicey's comment came across that way, and I've seen other comments over the years about how journalers aren't "contributing" somehow. I totally understand missing how the forum used to be! That doesn't need to involve putting down the journal section.

I'm not posting as much here anymore in general. I've spent more time on other financial forums and in-person help. And as I referenced before, I've run into attacks so off-base and offensive that it really put me off the forum. At least that poster isn't here anymore. I basically quit some reddit FIRE subs for similar reasons.

Hey MJ, Spartana just nailed what I was getting at in a lot fewer words. Sorry if my phrasing came across as something else. There is so much collective wisdom here. It's nice to see people sharing lessons learned from their own experiences. BTW, I just noticed "bf" in another post. I'm glad to see you've found someone worthy of the designation, and funny, too.

[Buffaloski Boris]

All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read.  I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.”  Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.

I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.

[MonkeyJenga]

Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P

Haha glad to see I have "inspired" at least one person on the planet ;-).

ETA the "Humpy" name is now my old dogs official name so I.guess you're an.inspiration too ;)

We are both hugely inspiring individuals, nay, heroes.

Thanks Dicey!


Unfortunately I've discovered (rediscovered?) why I have so few posts outside the journals. I've had to go back and delete my posts from some threads so they stop showing up in unread replies and stressing me out. (The notifications tab doesn't suit my needs.)

[Dicey]

All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read.  I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.”  Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.

I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.

Is it possible to just avoid the political stuff? There are plenty of civilized discourses occurring in the non-political threads.

[Buffaloski Boris]

All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read.  I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.”  Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.

I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.

Is it possible to just avoid the political stuff? There are plenty of civilized discourses occurring in the non-political threads.

I took a quick look at the top topics a moment ago. 7 out of the top ten were (arguably) political. I’m just not interested in talking about “Trumps latest outrage” particularly when there is rarely if ever a corresponding thread such as “Biden’s latest gaffe.”

I guess we could spend our time picking through the chaff, but I don’t see the point. There are a lot more polite, interesting, and relevant conversations on the on-topic parts of the forum. 

[Buffaloski Boris]

Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.

[nereo]

Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.

I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'.  Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.

Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around.  So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.

[Buffaloski Boris]

Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.

I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'.  Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.

Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around.  So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.

It comes down to scope of control. I have some level of control over my finances, my reading choices, my investments, the laundry, what I cook for dinner, and whether I bake cookies. I have zero control over the election or the candidates. If I were gifted with a tongue of silver and amazing persuasive abilities and could get every single person posting on this website to vote one way or the other, it still wouldn’t make one bit of difference in the outcome. It’s completely outside my scope of control. So I try not to waste my time with what I view to be a set of non-choices anyways.

[nereo]

Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.

I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'.  Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.

Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around.  So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.

It comes down to scope of control. I have some level of control over my finances, my reading choices, my investments, the laundry, what I cook for dinner, and whether I bake cookies. I have zero control over the election or the candidates. If I were gifted with a tongue of silver and amazing persuasive abilities and could get every single person posting on this website to vote one way or the other, it still wouldn’t make one bit of difference in the outcome. It’s completely outside my scope of control. So I try not to waste my time with what I view to be a set of non-choices anyways.

Yes, absolutely. 
...and a good reminder about ‘circle of control’