The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: nereo on April 01, 2019, 05:02:55 AM
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Some lively debates occur in the 'Off-Topic' sub-forum, but these are not the raison d'etre of this site, and a good number of the more experienced/senior mustachians spend a decent chunk of time posting in 'Off-Topic' (including myself).
Challenge is simple:
Increase the percentage of posts you make this month to the "general discussion" & "Learning, Sharing, and Teaching" sub-forums. Posting in 'Journals' is considered neutral.
Hint: you can see which forums you post most frequently in by clicking your 'profile', then 'show stats' (under your avatar).
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I’m trying to post less in general. So, not sure I will take up this gauntlet.
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I’m trying to post less in general. So, not sure I will take up this gauntlet.
Hey, that's thh beauty of percentages - you can accomplish the goal even while decreasing your total posts.
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Haha, called out. I often end up reading more in the other categories but not posting, especially case studies. So many good responses post so quickly that I often feel late to the party.
In any case, challenge accepted. Does this post count :)
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Guilty. I will take up the challenge, too.
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Accepted. I'm here for the mustachian material, so that's where I should spend my time!
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I'll give it a try.
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I am trying to post less in general, and that will be reflected in my posts to the off topic forum as well. I didn't see this challenge until just now because of it : )
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I'm not sure why I got tagged. :)
OT is my 5th most used forum in terms of absolute number of posts, and only by a few hundred posts, otherwise it wouldn't crack the top 5, and isn't even in my top 10 in terms of percent of activity stats.
Seems like a worthy goal though, I like it. I've visited the forums more in the last week than I have probably in any given month in the previous year+ (meaning... maybe 5 hours total in the last week?), and very much enjoyed the mini-resurgence of Mustachianism in me.
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D'oh, all my pasts in the goodbye to the forum thread just went from "General Discussion" to "off topic"
Should've seen it coming :)
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Nereo, there are a couple if threads we're both active on. I am always delighted at how clearly and diplomatically you express yourself. Confession: sometimes, particularly if the answer is complicated, I wait to see how you response. Often, you pen an answer that seems ripped right from my thoughts, except that your answer is far better than what I could have mustered.
Now you've done it again. For some time, I've noticed here are people with big, big journals that never seem to participate anywhere else. It kinda bugs me, but I couldn't figure out a non-dickish way to ask them to maybe pretty please onsider helping out others further down the FIRE escape ladder.
For the record, I don't see them on your list, which might underscore my point, and I'm not going to call them out here. I hope this thread results in more lively conversations.
I just want to say that it gives me the yippie-skippies to see someone get their shit together as a result of the support and encouragement they receive here. (See: @wooljaguar and @Eric222, who are both killing it. ) It feels so good to help others on their journey to FIRE. Really, everyone should try it. Take nereo up on this challenge, whether he pinged you or not.
And nereo, you did it again again. I didn't know about the "show stats" feature. I see I'm only #6 in Off Topic posts, so maybe I need to heed my own advice.
@arebelspy, maybe you just got pinged because everyone loves you.
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I pinged @arebelspy because when he's not traveling he's active, and active everywhere, and because I want to be on "Team arebelspy", as he's both a fountain of knowledge and even-handed when discussing subjects with people whom might have a different viewpoint.
By all means invite others to this challenge. I intentionally phrased it in a positive way (i.e. "post more in the main forums" intead of "stop posting as much in off-topic"), because I do see value in both, but this forum exists to find ways of living better lives through sensible financial choices, and to help others achieve the same.
Just over a week in and I've personally increased my postings in several of the 'main' forums. There's something about helping others that just leads to a warm and fuzzy feeling, vs. perpetual arguing about hot-button topics that leaves me usually feeling annoyed or anxious.
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Hmmm, Off Topic is 4th down my list after General and Ask a Mustachian and basically tied for 5th with Mini Mustaches.
I'm not super interested in RE and don't feel like I have any helpful advice for people who are trying to be hardcore, but sure! I'll at least stay off the off-topics for a while.
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Guilty.
I agree that "on topic" is the main purpose of the forum and helping other on their path to FI is rewarding. However, I do enjoy the interaction of other like minded people in the journals. I would hate to see the forum turn into a percentage based thing where you were banned just because your percentages of post were not balanced in favour of "on topic".
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Like this?
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/pre-web-(historical)-mustachian-people/
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I looked at my profile, no surprises. I do spend a lot of time in the Journals, not surprising. I do post here.
I probably don't post as much as I might in Ask a Mustachian and Case Studies - I got burned a few time in Case studies, and most of the Ask a Mustachian stuff is on things I can't answer. I do check them out! I even started a thread in Throw Down the Gauntlet (Planting/Growing Your Own 2019).
Plus as a retired barely before standard retirement age Canadian, I am kind of an outlier in the forum demographics. But if anyone wants the opinion on something of a late 60-something, retired biologist, born in Quebec living in Ontario, female, divorced mother of 1, passionate gardener, I will give it. ;-)
Buffalo Chip, I grew up in Quebec during the Quiet Revolution (la revolution tranquile) - politics was a main topic of conversation. ;-)
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Plus as a retired barely before standard retirement age Canadian, I am kind of an outlier in the forum demographics. But if anyone wants the opinion on something of a late 60-something, retired biologist, born in Quebec living in Ontario, female, divorced mother of 1, passionate gardener, I will give it. ;-)
Buffalo Chip, I grew up in Quebec during the Quiet Revolution (la revolution tranquile) - politics was a main topic of conversation. ;-)
Oh good. A fellow post 50 person to show these young whippersnappers a thing or two! Pleased to meet you.
I’m not familiar with the quiet revolution in Quebec beyond what I quickly duck duck go’d. I’m more familiar with the so called Reagan revolution and US politics. Was very involved back in the day. Then I walked away. Had a “scales fell from my eyes” moment, and haven’t gone back. Find the whole politicL thing repugnant at this point, and am not shy about telling others about it
What type of biology?
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Plus as a retired barely before standard retirement age Canadian, I am kind of an outlier in the forum demographics. But if anyone wants the opinion on something of a late 60-something, retired biologist, born in Quebec living in Ontario, female, divorced mother of 1, passionate gardener, I will give it. ;-)
Buffalo Chip, I grew up in Quebec during the Quiet Revolution (la revolution tranquile) - politics was a main topic of conversation. ;-)
Oh good. A fellow post 50 person to show these young whippersnappers a thing or two! Pleased to meet you.
I’m not familiar with the quiet revolution in Quebec beyond what I quickly duck duck go’d. I’m more familiar with the so called Reagan revolution and US politics. Was very involved back in the day. Then I walked away. Had a “scales fell from my eyes” moment, and haven’t gone back. Find the whole politicL thing repugnant at this point, and am not shy about telling others about it
What type of biology?
Zoology/ecology mostly.
The quiet revolution basically changed Quebec from a very religious church-run society into a mostly secular society. It made major changes to education (start of the CEGEPs). It probably also unleashed separatism, not because the sentiment wasn't always there, but because the church worked with the authorities to keep everyone quiet and obedient.
My parents were children of the depression, or more accurately teens of the depression, so I grew up in a financially frugal household. Lots of what gets discussed here was second nature to them.
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I'm going to belatedly take up this challenge. Off-topic is fun, but oftentimes seems to just serve as a self-affirming soundboard for one's own thoughts and feelings rather than any kind of productive discourse. On a related note, I think Off-Topic tends to increase my stress levels, which is not cool (it could just be me).
There's something about helping others that just leads to a warm and fuzzy feeling, vs. perpetual arguing about hot-button topics that leaves me usually feeling annoyed or anxious.
I see it's not just me. I'll finish any conversations I'm currently in, but intend to actively ignore all others at least for the rest of this month.
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I'm going to belatedly take up this challenge. Off-topic is fun, but oftentimes seems to just serve as a self-affirming soundboard for one's own thoughts and feelings rather than any kind of productive discourse. On a related note, I think Off-Topic tends to increase my stress levels, which is not cool (it could just be me).
There's something about helping others that just leads to a warm and fuzzy feeling, vs. perpetual arguing about hot-button topics that leaves me usually feeling annoyed or anxious.
I see it's not just me. I'll finish any conversations I'm currently in, but intend to actively ignore all others at least for the rest of this month.
There’s a real theme here; discussion of news and hot-button topics makes us anxious and unhappy. But why would anyone want that?
Funny coincidence. I was listening to a Choose FI podcast and the guest was noting that when we’re angry or agitated, we tend to make more reckless or daring financial decisions which I suppose might be the underlying reason there is so much of this crap in the media. If people spend more when they’re angry, wouldn’t that be a good reason for continuing that media model?
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If people spend more when they’re angry, wouldn’t that be a good reason for continuing that media model?
I think you might have just pin pointed why the media is the way it is!
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I've started to interact more with actual financial advice threads. My stats are overwhelmingly journals, but that's been cooling down. It's nice when you get a follow up, even if sometimes people disappear.
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I've started to interact more with actual financial advice threads. My stats are overwhelmingly journals, but that's been cooling down. It's nice when you get a follow up, even if sometimes people disappear.
I love follow-ups like years later.
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Ha, funny you posted this, although I'm not on the list. I decided some time ago to spend less time in the Off-Topic section and more time in other forum sections. Seems like a good challenge for anyone.
Edit to add, just realized this is my 2000th comment. Maybe I spend too much time on here? Nah, it's a fun community!
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Ha, funny you posted this, although I'm not on the list. I decided some time ago to spend less time in the Off-Topic section and more time in other forum sections. Seems like a good challenge for anyone.
Glad you could join us. The list of course isn't all-inclusive, and everyone's invited to participate.
Half way through April and I've made just a few posts in the off-topic and probably doubled my participation elsewhere.
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Well I will not be posting in off topic for awhile so can join this challenge ;-). It's actually helpful having less than 100 posts as it really helps control any immediate desire to post a response in an ongoing heated debate. It's like being forced to count to 10 to cool down and then walk away from an angry discussion.
ETA I'm also refraining from posting in journals as, while most are wonderful reads from inspiring people, they can be a huge time suck and I find it hard not to get involved in the convos so avoid most now.
I’m in the same boat, but am rapidly approaching my 100 post threshold. So I can post off topic!!!!
Or not.
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I actually am a long term member and probably have a few billion posts (OK maybe a few thousand) but am crazy so deleted them all.
Spartana's deleted more posts than 99.9% of active forum members have ever made. It's sad to see @spartana bumped back down to '5-o'clock shadow'
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I’m celebrating over 100 posts and I haven’t been banned yet. Wooohoo!
That also means I can post off topic. Not quite so exciting as not getting banned, but I figured I should do a look at what’s there. Bernie Saunders is hot, as is the US of Russia. So lots of politics.
Ewwww. Gross. Bleccch!
Guess I won’t be posting off topic anytime soon.
Congratulations! I look forward to seeing more posts from you in the main forums ;-)
Follow the forum rules and you won't get banned.
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Do you mean you aren't really a small fluffy white dog sporting a top hat and a monocle IRL? I'm a bit dissapointed, to be honest...
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Well I will not be posting in off topic for awhile so can join this challenge ;-). It's actually helpful having less than 100 posts as it really helps control any immediate desire to post a response in an ongoing heated debate. It's like being forced to count to 10 to cool down and then walk away from an angry discussion.
ETA I'm also refraining from posting in journals as, while most are wonderful reads from inspiring people, they can be a huge time suck and I find it hard not to get involved in the convos so avoid most now.
I’m in the same boat, but am rapidly approaching my 100 post threshold. So I can post off topic!!!!
Or not.
I actually am a long term member and probably have a few billion posts (OK maybe a few thousand) but am crazy so deleted them all.
I like crazy. Normal is in debt, unhappy, regular voter, and a wage slave. I’ll take a pass on normal.
Someone who gets it ;-). But seriously, I put too much personal info on.this forum over the years (pictures too!) and a reader found me IRL and I had some serious issues with him. So now I limit what I say.
Geez, sorry to hear that. The Internet is full of some crazy psychos! This is one of the main reasons I stay away from Facebook, Twitter, etc.
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I think it’s time to fire this one up again. Acknowledge the wickedness and backsliding of my ways and stay off the off topic.
And besides, on-topic has fewer calories.
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I think it’s time to fire this one up again. Acknowledge the wickedness and backsliding of my ways and stay off the off topic.
And besides, on-topic has fewer calories.
Sounds good to me!
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I think it’s time to fire this one up again. Acknowledge the wickedness and backsliding of my ways and stay off the off topic.
And besides, on-topic has fewer calories.
Sounds good to me!
Me too. I have enough crazy in my life.
Might I persuade you to change the title to remove the “April” from the thread? Staying off off-topic is timeless :-p
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I think it’s time to fire this one up again. Acknowledge the wickedness and backsliding of my ways and stay off the off topic.
And besides, on-topic has fewer calories.
Sounds good to me!
Me too. I have enough crazy in my life.
Might I persuade you to change the title to remove the “April” from the thread? Staying off off-topic is timeless :-p
I changed it to "July" --- though through some glitch in the matrix it shows up that way in the list of recent threads but not when you are reading the actual thread (that comes later... i think... don't know why).
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I think it’s time to fire this one up again. Acknowledge the wickedness and backsliding of my ways and stay off the off topic.
And besides, on-topic has fewer calories.
Sounds good to me!
Me too. I have enough crazy in my life.
Might I persuade you to change the title to remove the “April” from the thread? Staying off off-topic is timeless :-p
I changed it to "July" --- though through some glitch in the matrix it shows up that way in the list of recent threads but not when you are reading the actual thread (that comes later... i think... don't know why).
OK. That works. Thanks for making the change!
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I'd forgotten about this thread. I see Off Topic has moved from #6 to #8 in my stats. I'll take that for a win.
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I'd forgotten about this thread. I see Off Topic has moved from #6 to #8 in my stats. I'll take that for a win.
Off topic is 4th for me. Got some work to do!
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Off topic is 5th for me in posts but 10th in activity. But it says gardening is #1 in activity and so I don't think the activity part is very accurate.
I would like off topic to go down to 7th!
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Progress so far: I don’t believe I’ve visited off topic in the last week. Not posted there at all. I have 175 posts in off topic. That’s about 174 too many. So long as I post throw down the gauntlet more, it’ll slip to 5th hopefully by next month.
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I think more members here need to read, re-read, then follow the MMM “Low-Information Diet” article.
I wish the Off Topic wasn’t so politically driven, makes it really really easy for me to avoid it in general.. It’s so easy to get sucked into BS debates which add virtually zero value to anyone involved in them..
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Progress so far: I don’t believe I’ve visited off topic in the last week. Not posted there at all. I have 175 posts in off topic. That’s about 174 too many. So long as I post throw down the gauntlet more, it’ll slip to 5th hopefully by next month.
II I’ve been posting far less over the last two weeks.. but sadly a few times in OT. So..l fail?
Will do better over the next two weeks
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I avoid political topics like the plague here. Just for fun, I looked to see what else is in Off Topic. Wait a damn minute! There is some good info there, especially the food-related stuff. I often find great recipes on in the dinner thread and acorns thread is invaluable for eating well on a miniscule budget.
Now I'm not so sure what the point of this thread is...I may have to rethink this prohibition.
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I avoid political topics like the plague here. Just for fun, I looked to see what else is in Off Topic. Wait a damn minute! There is some good info there, especially the food-related stuff. I often find great recipes on in the dinner thread and acorns thread is invaluable for eating well on a miniscule budget.
Now I'm not so sure what the point of this thread is...I may have to rethink this prohibition.
It's not a prohibition. The challenge isn't to avoid posting in the Off-Topic section altogether, but to spend more time in the main subforums... the raison d'etre so to speak.
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I avoid political topics like the plague here. Just for fun, I looked to see what else is in Off Topic. Wait a damn minute! There is some good info there, especially the food-related stuff. I often find great recipes on in the dinner thread and acorns thread is invaluable for eating well on a miniscule budget.
Now I'm not so sure what the point of this thread is...I may have to rethink this prohibition.
It's not a prohibition. The challenge isn't to avoid posting in the Off-Topic section altogether, but to spend more time in the main subforums... the raison d'etre so to speak.
B-b--b-but I like the frugal food stuff and the daily inspiration! They are definitely within our raison d'etre, IMO.
Maybe the Off Topic topic could use a little refining. @acorn's amazing thread is a gift to all mustachians.
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
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I think more members here need to read, re-read, then follow the MMM “Low-Information Diet” article.
Hypothetical question. Let's say I have a brother that really believes in the Low-Information Diet but has little to no self control on this issue? What is he to do? : (
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I stopped posting there at all when the first thread came up and only hit it on rare topics, usually that I think should be in a different area, but I was pretty far underwater and I've dropped my posting way down over the last year.
However, this thread made me take another look at why I come to the forum and I enjoy it more when I'm here now!
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
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I avoid political topics like the plague here. Just for fun, I looked to see what else is in Off Topic. Wait a damn minute! There is some good info there, especially the food-related stuff. I often find great recipes on in the dinner thread and acorns thread is invaluable for eating well on a miniscule budget.
Now I'm not so sure what the point of this thread is...I may have to rethink this prohibition.
Exactly. There is a lot on this we site that isn’t off topic that I’ve never even explored. The tax topic is fascinating and I don’t think I’d ever been there until a couple of weeks ago. There is a real estate section that I have yet to check out. So why sort through off topic chaff when there are gold nuggets just laying about elsewhere?
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
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I think more members here need to read, re-read, then follow the MMM “Low-Information Diet” article.
Hypothetical question. Let's say I have a brother that really believes in the Low-Information Diet but has little to no self control on this issue? What is he to do? : (
If he truly believes in it, then he’ll work to practice it. There’s a lot of actions you can take. For example, I hid ALL people on my Facebook that made any political posts, right or left. Probably 200-300 people. I also removed the “news” page from my phone. I also don’t do my best to avoid these conversations with friends and family.
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!
Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!
Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.
Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both? Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!
Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.
Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both? Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?
I joined this challenge, I support people participating in both areas! But I've seen quite a few comments over the years about the "journal folk" taking over, and not participating in the community, when the commenters don't participate in that part of the community! As if the non-journal threads have some inherent value and worth that the journals don't.
I do understand why people would stick to journals. You make connections there, the vibe tends to be different, and you're not dealing with arguments or repetitive questions. For people with limited time, it makes sense that they hang out there, update on their progress once in a while and check in with internet friends.
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hey, IMO there's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the OT portion of the forum, and clearly I like to post there too.
This is just a voluntary challenge to post more in the other subforums. Because your wisdom is needed there too ;-)
My pet peeve is the people who post in their journals and nowhere else. I hang out here to help others on the path to FIRE. I also like interacting with others who have a wider range of experience than I do. I may be FIRE, but there's still a lot I don't know.
I usually just mark all journals as read before I look at unread posts. It cuts through a lot. There have occasionally been really interesting journals, though.
My issue is not with the journals - I love them! It is with the people who ONLY post in their journals and don't contribute to the wider community.
I probably miss out on anything useful they have to say, which really validates your point!
Journals are a huge part of the community, and a way of making changes stick and continually learning from people's individual journeys. One could argue that ignoring them all has the same effect as ignoring non-journal threads.
Not disagreeing with you - but why not participate in both? Wouldn't that be optimal in terms of being an active, contributing forum member?
I joined this challenge, I support people participating in both areas! But I've seen quite a few comments over the years about the "journal folk" taking over, and not participating in the community, when the commenters don't participate in that part of the community! As if the non-journal threads have some inherent value and worth that the journals don't.
I do understand why people would stick to journals. You make connections there, the vibe tends to be different, and you're not dealing with arguments or repetitive questions. For people with limited time, it makes sense that they hang out there, update on their progress once in a while and check in with internet friends.
I find the journals to be the opposite. Most are very long and difficult to follow without reading each from the beginning. Which can be a very time consuming thing compared to reading individual thread topics about a specific topic. Most also seem like discussion between friends who have lots of history and inside knowledge about each other and I often feel odd posting in them...like I'm an intruder who doesn't get the jokes. That said I do follow some journals even if I rarely post in them, and really enjoy the sense of community and friendship they bring. But yes, I'm in camp @Dicey and miss some of the knowledge on individual forum topics that now only get posted in journals and are difficult to find.
That said I've rarely been posting in OT these days myself.
I hear you. I am trying to solve that one by just picking reading some of the short ones. I avoid the long ones. I started a journal because I wanted to sort out my thoughts, and then I figured I should probably be sociable and read some others as well. It can be fun to see someone else's journey over time. But I definitely understand and feel the vibe of feeling out of place about making a comment on some longstanding poster's very long journal. I do think when people "refresh" their journal from time to time that can help. On the other hand, someone's journal is their journey so they should do as they wish.
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Note: These are just my personal thoughts. Yours may differ. If so, I welcome your input. If we keep this conversation going and friendly, perhaps something good will come of it.
Full disclosure: I love the Journals section!
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In pre-pandemic days, I was an active library volunteer. I've on the board of our "Friends" group for over a decade. We have donation bins in the library. We sort, collate and eventually arrange thousands of books for quarterly book sales. Right next to the bins is a table that has been designated the "Tutor's Table". Occasionally, a tutor will get pissed off when a volunteer works the bins while they have a student. Periodically one will complain to the staff.
First, the "Tutur Table is just to make sure that there's always one available. A tutor is free to use any open space anywhere in the library. Second, the tutors are completely independent of the library system. The library offers them a free, convenient space where they can ply their trade. Yup, the County Library System is completely absorbing the cost of the tutor's overhead, while the tutors are charging their pupils a pretty penny. WTF? On the other hand, the volunteers are giving their own time to raise money for the exclusive benefit of the library. In other words, the volunteers are raising money for the library, and the tutors are getting a free place from which to operate their own small business.* Nice for them, right?
This is kind of how I feel about people who don't venture out of the journals section, or their own journal**. I'd love it if people would "pay" a little rent for their free journal space by helping other FIRE seekers out. They are all intelligent people who have valuable life experience and lots of good advice to share. Plenty of people feel the way Sparty does - unwilling to wade into a 40 page long journal, and so the exclusive journalers' wisdom becomes confined to a small circle.
Sparty and I are old timers here (don't be fooled by her post count). We remember the days where there were lots of great conversations all over the place. Many prolific contributors did not have journals. Over time, anyone who could spin a decent yarn was told repeatedly they should start a journal, so many did. The most benevolent ones (again, IMO) continue to do both.
Hell, I have a crazy long journal. I'm reluctant to start a new one, because mine is full of dangling stories and half-told lies tales. Honestly, I can't believe I've kept it going this long.
*Note to side gig seekers - tutoring looks to have a lot of upside potential.
**Yes, I know no one's getting paid to journal, the way the tutors are (well, were, in pre-pandemic days), it's just an analogy.
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I like the journals although I don’t bother with one. I find the topics elsewhere interesting and journaling isn’t my thing. I do wish that the old hands would be more welcoming to the new folks; yeah, it might be the 1400th time a question has been asked, but a new person doesn’t know that and it’s new for them. And exciting.
As for off topic, what can I say? It’s mostly politics. I intensely dislike politics as well as the sort of poor behavior it seems to bring along with it. Not to mention it’s usually the same arguments over and over and over and over. In the end the discussion accomplishes less than nothing. It doesn’t educate, it doesn’t persuade, and it doesn’t make the world a better place.
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Most also seem like discussion between friends who have lots of history and inside knowledge about each other and I often feel odd posting in them...like I'm an intruder who doesn't get the jokes. That said I do follow some journals even if I rarely post in them, and really enjoy the sense of community and friendship they bring.
Friends with lots of history - like a community! That's my main point here. The journals are a community, and they are a part of the MMM community. To say that journal-only folk are freeloaders somehow, and not contributing to the forum community, is silly. To those who are afraid to post in long journals - people are super welcoming! And will often give quick recaps to anyone who doesn't have the time to read the whole thing.
Frankly, on some of my attempts to contribute more to non-journal sections, I ran into such baseless attacks that I got fed up with it, and one poster in particular. I didn't completely abandon non-journal threads, but I can understand why someone would prefer the friendly community of the journals.
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Frankly, on some of my attempts to contribute more to non-journal sections, I ran into such baseless attacks that I got fed up with it, and one poster in particular. I didn't completely abandon non-journal threads, but I can understand why someone would prefer the friendly community of the journals.
I was wondering why I didn’t see you much outside the journals. Fair criticism; I run into it myself. My current site handle is a result of an encounter with the Officially Tolerant being tolerant of all views, except those that contradict their own of course. One of Officially Tolerant accused another poster of being a Russian troll. So, I figured it was time to fess up to my role in the grand conspiracy for the Glory of Vlad and Mother Russia.
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I was wondering why I didn’t see you much outside the journals.
A quick skim of my recent posts shows a decent mix, with a few gauntlets, some general discussion, and some post-FIRE threads, mixed in with catching up with journal buddies. But I probably wouldn't come back here regularly if it weren't for the journals, and they're by far where I've posted the most.
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Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P
I didn't think that was your view, sorry if it sounded like that. Dicey's comment came across that way, and I've seen other comments over the years about how journalers aren't "contributing" somehow. I totally understand missing how the forum used to be! That doesn't need to involve putting down the journal section.
I'm not posting as much here anymore in general. I've spent more time on other financial forums and in-person help. And as I referenced before, I've run into attacks so off-base and offensive that it really put me off the forum. At least that poster isn't here anymore. I basically quit some reddit FIRE subs for similar reasons.
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Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P
I didn't think that was your view, sorry if it sounded like that. Dicey's comment came across that way, and I've seen other comments over the years about how journalers aren't "contributing" somehow. I totally understand missing how the forum used to be! That doesn't need to involve putting down the journal section.
I'm not posting as much here anymore in general. I've spent more time on other financial forums and in-person help. And as I referenced before, I've run into attacks so off-base and offensive that it really put me off the forum. At least that poster isn't here anymore. I basically quit some reddit FIRE subs for similar reasons.
Hey MJ, Spartana just nailed what I was getting at in a lot fewer words. Sorry if my phrasing came across as something else. There is so much collective wisdom here. It's nice to see people sharing lessons learned from their own experiences. BTW, I just noticed "bf" in another post. I'm glad to see you've found someone worthy of the designation, and funny, too.
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All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read. I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.” Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.
I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.
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Aww. Btw, my bf has just decided to start calling me HumpyJenga. :P
Haha glad to see I have "inspired" at least one person on the planet ;-).
ETA the "Humpy" name is now my old dogs official name so I.guess you're an.inspiration too ;)
We are both hugely inspiring individuals, nay, heroes.
Thanks Dicey!
Unfortunately I've discovered (rediscovered?) why I have so few posts outside the journals. I've had to go back and delete my posts from some threads so they stop showing up in unread replies and stressing me out. (The notifications tab doesn't suit my needs.)
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All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read. I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.” Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.
I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.
Is it possible to just avoid the political stuff? There are plenty of civilized discourses occurring in the non-political threads.
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All in all, staying off the Off Topic for July has been a success. I stayed off it completely through the end of July. Didn’t post, didn’t read. I took a brief look out of curiosity this morning to see what I was “missing.” Well I missed another cutting edge political discussion where the OP was called brainwashed and a concern troll. Charming. Political discussion really is the gift that keeps on giving. Kind of like an STD.
I think that re-upping the challenge for August will be a good idea for me. No posts, no lurking.
Is it possible to just avoid the political stuff? There are plenty of civilized discourses occurring in the non-political threads.
I took a quick look at the top topics a moment ago. 7 out of the top ten were (arguably) political. I’m just not interested in talking about “Trumps latest outrage” particularly when there is rarely if ever a corresponding thread such as “Biden’s latest gaffe.”
I guess we could spend our time picking through the chaff, but I don’t see the point. There are a lot more polite, interesting, and relevant conversations on the on-topic parts of the forum.
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Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.
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Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.
I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'. Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.
Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around. So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.
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Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.
I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'. Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.
Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around. So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.
It comes down to scope of control. I have some level of control over my finances, my reading choices, my investments, the laundry, what I cook for dinner, and whether I bake cookies. I have zero control over the election or the candidates. If I were gifted with a tongue of silver and amazing persuasive abilities and could get every single person posting on this website to vote one way or the other, it still wouldn’t make one bit of difference in the outcome. It’s completely outside my scope of control. So I try not to waste my time with what I view to be a set of non-choices anyways.
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Another month with no posts to off topic and no lurking. A success! We’ll see how it goes with the election silliness this month.
I wish I could write off the election as mere 'silliness'. Sadly I believe actual people are dying because of it.
Still, I'm not sure posting in OT will change much this go around. So I ought to take my own advice and limit unneccessary exposure.
It comes down to scope of control. I have some level of control over my finances, my reading choices, my investments, the laundry, what I cook for dinner, and whether I bake cookies. I have zero control over the election or the candidates. If I were gifted with a tongue of silver and amazing persuasive abilities and could get every single person posting on this website to vote one way or the other, it still wouldn’t make one bit of difference in the outcome. It’s completely outside my scope of control. So I try not to waste my time with what I view to be a set of non-choices anyways.
Yes, absolutely.
...and a good reminder about ‘circle of control’