Seeking advice for upcoming negotiation

[tygertygertyger]

Hello!

My partner and I have been renting an apartment in a small owner-occupied building for several years. A new owner (but local to the neighborhood) bought our building last fall, and lives here also now. We're supposed to meet with him to discuss a new lease soon, and I wanted to get opinions on our asking for an additional clause to be added...

We've been looking for a house for the last two years, with no success (obviously!). We're interested in explaining to our landlord that while our search is currently on hold, we wonder if he'll consider allowing us to give 60 days notice if we do find a house. We'd want him to have plenty of notice, and we've heard other landlords have been amenable to that.

Before we have that conversation with him, I thought I'd come on here and see if that sounds reasonable to you all who have been doing this for longer? Any modifications or alternatives that you might suggest? We're talking about what our backup plan might be if he says no. Maybe a 6 month lease in that case, but we'll talk about it more. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts!

ETA: We've paid rent on time every month and believe we're on fine terms. Our dogs are friends. The only down note was one month when our city was having big mail delays, our rent check was late. Landlord reached out to us and we talked about what to do (it was well-known about the mail delays) but it did arrive and was clearly dated before the due date. We've been VERY careful since then to send it even earlier!

[ResolLaTot]

As a smalltime landlord myself, I think this is reasonable. The reality for me is, I live on a property with my tenants and have no desire to hold hostages on the premises.  A more professional landlord on this forum may have a very different and valid POV.

Here are some ideas for making your proposition more palatable:
1. Provide generous access upon giving 60 day notice for apartment fixes and showings. Promise to maintain your unit in good "showing condition" while the owner seeks new tenants.
2. Give the owner entry to your unit now so they can assess how much work will be needed to turn over the apartment. 
3. Offer to go month to month. This may undercut your sense of security. But really, you are asking for a month to month lease.
4. If the above is not sufficient, you could offer to plump your security deposit by one month. This is a last resort. Idea being if you were to pull up stakes at a time of year that is difficult for rentals, your landlord has an extra month to find candidates before feeling the pain.

These are my ideas. I'd be surprised if #1 didn't do the trick. One question, if your landlord is an owner occupant, why do you mail the rent?
Good luck!

-RLT

[Jon Bon]

I am willing to give a bunch of leeway for good tenants as is sounds like you are.

The advice above is spot on. I would also not really call that a negotiation, feels too adversarial. My really good tenants I kind of view as in a partnership. I get income they get a nice place to live, everyone wins.

For goodness sake send that rent electronically! Mr. Landlord will like that ever more!

[uniwelder]

I think if you've already been living in the same apartment for several years and on good terms, just ask about going month to month with 30 days notice.  I don't know your area, but I would think one month should be plenty of time to get a new tenant to take your place without forcing you to potentially pay rent and mortgage on two places longer than necessary. 

Once you have an offer accepted on a house, it'll likely take 30 days to close, but it won't be until near the end that you'll be 95% certain its going through or isn't delayed.  After closing, you might want to paint, redo carpet, etc, before moving in.  Plus perhaps a week for the move itself to give lots of time.  I wouldn't want to give official notice until the closing actually happens, just in case something falls through, hence the month to month with 30 days suggestion.  Once you have the offer accepted, I'd tell the landlord verbally how you found a house you like and keep him informed about progress, then give official 30 days notice upon closing.

Otherwise, I like the previous advice.

[chemistk]

I think if you've already been living in the same apartment for several years and on good terms, just ask about going month to month with 30 days notice.  I don't know your area, but I would think one month should be plenty of time to get a new tenant to take your place without forcing you to potentially pay rent and mortgage on two places longer than necessary. 

Once you have an offer accepted on a house, it'll likely take 30 days to close, but it won't be until near the end that you'll be 95% certain its going through or isn't delayed.  After closing, you might want to paint, redo carpet, etc, before moving in.  Plus perhaps a week for the move itself to give lots of time.  I wouldn't want to give official notice until the closing actually happens, just in case something falls through, hence the month to month with 30 days suggestion.  Once you have the offer accepted, I'd tell the landlord verbally how you found a house you like and keep him informed about progress, then give official 30 days notice upon closing.

Otherwise, I like the previous advice.

Definitely this.

We were required to give 60 days' notice by our landlord's PMG, and although the extra months' rent + utilities that we have to pay isn't ideal at all, we've been able to knock out a ton of projects at the new house - stuff that would have been way more challenging to do if we had to move in immediately.  Also helps that our new house is about half a mile from out rental.

Most importantly - do not give notice to vacate until you close on a new place. You're free to tell your landlord that you're under contract on something and keep him posted but by no means should you formally give notice until you know that you own the new house. You absolutely don't want to be without a place to live if you can't close and you've already given notice to leave your rental.

[PMJL34]

OP,

You've received excellent advice. In your shoes, I'd just ask to go month to month and keep the owner updated if you get into escrow for a property.

Like others, very curious about sending a check to an owner who lives in the same property lol.

[uniwelder]

Like others, very curious about sending a check to an owner who lives in the same property lol.

I’m going to guess this was to the previous owner, before the new one started living at the property. Otherwise, maybe OP doesn’t have physical checks and the bank mails them instead of electronic transfer. That’s what happens with one of my tenants that uses Wells Fargo. Takes 10 days for the money to appear in my account.

[tygertygertyger]

Thank you all for your replies! Yes, I have my bank mail out the check to him, even though he lives downstairs. I haven't had physical checks in a long time, so this has been my standard practice... I think it usually works okay (he gets to cash them several days in advance).

I think we'll try asking first to continue on a month-to-month basis with 30 days notice. Technically we're month-to-month now, as our lease under the previous owner expired a few months back. The new owner wants to come up and talk to us about the new lease while we sign it. He already told my partner about the rent increase.

And thanks for all the reminders not to give notice until we actually close. I admit I hadn't thought about it - this imaginary future house will be the first we buy, so to me, getting an offer accepted still seems like magic. Thank you!

[Lucky Recardito]

2c as a very small-time, live-in landlord -- consider whether seasonality matters in your area when discussing with your landlord. eg, I'm in the Midwest, and it is MUCH harder to get tenants for leases starting 11/1 - 3/1. Fewer people looking to move in the winter. Apts with winter lease-start dates often rent for less than those that start in warmer months. So consider the fact that such logic might play into your landlord's mental math. eg, our current lease has a 5/1 start. Our (wonderful) tenant has expressed that he will be buying a place sometime in the future; I'd be happy to work with him on a short month-to-month extension into the summer, but I wouldn't accept an arrangement that put my apt on the market in December. Just not in my best interest.

[affordablehousing]

We had this happen. THere was no way I wanted to stand in the way of a tenant becoming a homeowner. She was grateful for the early release, and she helped find a replacement tenant and worked with them to have no economic vacancy. That was a total win all around. The situation you describe has lots of room for benefits other than just the rent you pay.

[ResolLaTot]

+1s to @Jon Bon  and @Lucky Recardito !  I'm a landlord and, as such, I get pretty dang excited when people I know embark on becoming property owners. I'm a bit of a freak about it. I've been known to grill a tenant who has indicated they are looking, and then proceed to send them listings that I think are good deals and meet their requirements. I like Jon Bon's advice to avoid approaching this as a stiff negotiation. Explain where you are at in your life vis-a-vis a property search and ask how to best handle if/when you succeed. Wait to hear their response before offering lease riders and what not.

I am also in the Midwest and Lucky Ricardito is right about difficulties renting in winter. But that might be a great time of year to find a deal on your end. I would lean into the collaborative approach, should you go under contract at a down-market time of year (whatever that means in your locale). While there is a smaller pool of renters, there is also less available rental stock. There will always be people leaving a relationship or relocating. Life is bumpy! It just takes more patience to hold out for a candidate who meets the income/credit bar. Since the owner lives on-site, they will likely be more choosey too.

Good luck on your conversation OP, and let us know how it went!

-RLT
Edited to add, I love @affordablehousing 's experience.  Getting a lead on a new tenant from a known quantity is gold!

[tygertygertyger]

UPDATE:

Our conversation with our landlord went well. He brought up the new lease (seems standard but I'll read through it before we sign). I brought up our interest in buying a house without requesting anything in particular - just said that we've been looking on and off, and if we did find one, how might that play out with the lease. He nodded, but then said, well, what are you thinking?

Based on everyone's help above, I told him if that we found a house, we'd let him know once we were under contract, but that we wouldn't want to give notice until we closed. He definitely understood that! He initially suggested 3 months notice, but we offered 2 months, and he thought that would be okay. Said he wouldn't want to stand in our way of buying a house, though he did seem to hope that we wouldn't find one in the middle of winter. 

He's going to type up an addendum and bring it up later. All in all, it went pretty well! My partner felt strongly about having a lease (and not just month-to-month), which is fine with me.

Our landlord requested additional money toward our security deposit to bring the deposit in line with our current monthly rent. I was glad he did NOT request a pet deposit or additional monthly pet fees, so that's excellent. We segued into talk about some minor repairs about the place, and that's all!

I appreciate everyone who weighed in - you gave me more confidence for this conversation. 

[tygertygertyger]

One last mini-update. Our landlord dropped off the addendum, and it doesn't include any mention of prorating the last month.

From the addendum:

(a) Resident will give Landlord written notice at least sixty (60) days prior to the final rent payment due date; (b) Pay the full final month rent through the agreed cancellation date selected;

Am I misreading? "Full final month rent" seems pretty clear, so I don't think I'm misunderstanding.

I suppose I'll hope to close nearer the end of the month rather than the beginning!