Long Angle HNW Forum

[seattlecyclone]

I want to make a quick plug for Long Angle, an online community for high-net-worth individuals. It has discussions about various topics including wealth management, estate planning, and the like. I've learned a few things on there. They had an interesting presentation last month about what exactly a hedge fund is and why you might want to invest in one (I don't want to, but it was nice to hear a hedge fund manager say so), and another one where members shared their asset allocations and people with unusually high allocations in certain areas would explain their reasoning. I think the leaders envision someday being able to monetize the platform by advertising accredited investment opportunities or something like that, but as of now it's free to join and there's no obligation to do anything. If you're a bit past "lean FIRE" levels and want to converse with others in a similar position, check it out! A few more FIRE-minded folks wouldn't be a bad thing. Note that the minimum net worth requirement is $2 million of investable assets (they do ask for proof), and people post using their real names.

[Paul der Krake]

Ooooh that looks pretty cool. Sadly I am not a double millionaire, yet. Bookmarking for the future for sure.

[seattlecyclone]

What constitutes proof of assets?

A screenshot of my Vanguard home page with account numbers redacted was sufficient.

Had you ever checked Bogleheads? If so, how do they compare (just curious, Bogleheads wasn’t a good fit for me).

I haven't spent a ton of time on Bogleheads. Much smaller population, for sure. More diversity of investment strategies (not just put everything in index funds).

[G-dog]

Thanks.

I checked bogleheads back in 2014 - part of what put me off is just how the forum is organized and the software. And it seemed more geared to amassing as much $$ as possible, versus getting enough.  Maybe I would feel different now.

I went to a few local Choose FI meetups too, and they also seemed to be striving for infinite $$, so not my vibe (I am sure it varies a lot by the local group)

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Years ago I enjoyed reddit's FatFIRE, but it has been overrun with people wanting to be FatFIRE.  It used to be mostly HNW people discussing things specific to them - now it's people who want to know what jobs to take or what moves to make... and few HNW people to answer them.

Note that the minimum net worth requirement is $2 million of investable assets (they do ask for proof), and people post using their real names.

Why are people required to use their real names on that website?

I also find it odd the site requests people use discretion - to not DOX other members or post their details... and yet, the site has no privacy policy.  I don't see what stops them from selling their valuable member list.

[ericrugiero]

Years ago I enjoyed reddit's FatFIRE, but it has been overrun with people wanting to be FatFIRE.  It used to be mostly HNW people discussing things specific to them - now it's people who want to know what jobs to take or what moves to make... and few HNW people to answer them.

Note that the minimum net worth requirement is $2 million of investable assets (they do ask for proof), and people post using their real names.

Why are people required to use their real names on that website?

I also find it odd the site requests people use discretion - to not DOX other members or post their details... and yet, the site has no privacy policy.  I don't see what stops them from selling their valuable member list.

+1  I would be concerned about my privacy on that site.  If "just" a screenshot of a 401K/IRA balance suffices for entry I wouldn't be comfortable sharing personal financial details with my real name.  Not that it's wrong, just something I would be concerned about.  Maybe I'm being overly concerned.  It doesn't matter for me anyway. I don't meet the Net Worth requirements. 

[seattlecyclone]

Why are people required to use their real names on that website?

I don't know that it's a requirement per se. I just haven't noticed any pseudonyms.

I also find it odd the site requests people use discretion - to not DOX other members or post their details... and yet, the site has no privacy policy.  I don't see what stops them from selling their valuable member list.

There is a privacy policy accessible to logged-in users. I'll PM you a copy. Your PM settings don't allow messages from me.

[Dicey]

Not to split hairs, but it's $2.1 million. What qualifies as investible assets? I don't want to look beyond the home page at this point.

Funny, I talk about money all the time here, but the thought showing someone my actual statements gives me the heebie-jeebies, and Im pretty sure DH would feel the same way. I don't want to be anybody's target, and I'm not sure I have a burning desire to parlay what we have into "more". We are pretty close to have more than "enough".

[jim555]

"Long Angle welcomes membership applications from any candidates whose investable assets exceed $2.1 million." - LOL

These guys sound like a bunch of d-bags.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Not to split hairs, but it's $2.1 million. What qualifies as investible assets?

Sounds like a brokerage account statement suffices:

What constitutes proof of assets?

A screenshot of my Vanguard home page with account numbers redacted was sufficient.

I also find it odd the site requests people use discretion - to not DOX other members or post their details... and yet, the site has no privacy policy.  I don't see what stops them from selling their valuable member list.

There is a privacy policy accessible to logged-in users. I'll PM you a copy. Your PM settings don't allow messages from me.

For purposes of continuing the discussion in the forum, what concerns did you have before reading the privacy policy?   Were those concerns alleviated?

[seattlecyclone]

For purposes of continuing the discussion in the forum, what concerns did you have before reading the privacy policy?   Were those concerns alleviated?

Honestly I had no real worries. It's billed as a forum for rich people to talk about rich people things, I figured I might learn a thing or two (while shaking my head at the anti-Mustachianness of other things), and I just didn't see much harm likely to come from sharing a one-time snapshot of my investment balance with the site owners in order to gain admittance. I totally get it if you have a different opinion about how private that information is though.

[Dicey]

Not to split hairs, but it's $2.1 million. What qualifies as investible assets?

Sounds like a brokerage account statement suffices:

What constitutes proof of assets?

A screenshot of my Vanguard home page with account numbers redacted was sufficient.

I'm going to be careful here, MustacheAndaHalf, because internet and tone and all that, but I read and understood the original post. Quoting the exact words when someone asks for more information is generally...unhelpful. Please spare me the reprimand, because that's what it felt like, as you were missing my point.

I wanted to know if there were other ways, without having to disclose personal information on their website so I querried the person most likely to know. I'd still like to hear from @seattlecyclone or anyone else who knows.

There are plenty of multimillionaires out there who cannot show $2.1M in a single Vanguard screenshot.

[seattlecyclone]

I wanted to know if there were other ways, without having to disclose personal information on their website so I querried the person most likely to know. I'd still like to hear from @seattlecyclone or anyone else who knows.

There are plenty of multimillionaires out there who cannot show $2.1M in a single Vanguard screenshot.

The community is still small enough that the owners personally approve all new memberships. They seem like reasonable people. Whatever method you propose to show them you meet the criteria is worth a try.

[seattlecyclone]

Why are people required to use their real names on that website?

I don't know that it's a requirement per se. I just haven't noticed any pseudonyms.

This bit is now false.

[BigEasyStache]

I joined.  To qualify I simply took a snapshot of multiple accounts which added up to the $2.1m.  Redacted all sensitive info.  The approval took about a day and I was emailed personally by the managing director.  It's been 3-4 days now and I have not received any spam or ask for any investment.  It appears their format is to hold occasional forums on a specific investment topic and have members participate and offer any info/knowledge.

They are in the very beginning stages of growing their community and have created groups like "asset allocation", "work optional", "grapevine."  Once I participate in a forum with other members I'll have a much better idea of the usefulness.

[G-dog]

I joined.  To qualify I simply took a snapshot of multiple accounts which added up to the $2.1m.  Redacted all sensitive info.  The approval took about a day and I was emailed personally by the managing director.  It's been 3-4 days now and I have not received any spam or ask for any investment.  It appears their format is to hold occasional forums on a specific investment topic and have members participate and offer any info/knowledge.

They are in the very beginning stages of growing their community and have created groups like "asset allocation", "work optional", "grapevine."  Once I participate in a forum with other members I'll have a much better idea of the usefulness.

Please do report back on what you think of their topics and forums.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I joined ...

They are in the very beginning stages of growing their community and have created groups like "asset allocation", "work optional", "grapevine."

Someone seeing your post and joining that website will know who you are - the person who created the "grapevine" topic.  Were you able to use something other than your real name on those forums?

[BicycleB]

I joined.  To qualify I simply took a snapshot of multiple accounts which added up to the $2.1m.  Redacted all sensitive info.  The approval took about a day and I was emailed personally by the managing director.  It's been 3-4 days now and I have not received any spam or ask for any investment.  It appears their format is to hold occasional forums on a specific investment topic and have members participate and offer any info/knowledge.

They are in the very beginning stages of growing their community and have created groups like "asset allocation", "work optional", "grapevine."  Once I participate in a forum with other members I'll have a much better idea of the usefulness.

Please do report back on what you think of their topics and forums.

Yes :)

(Even though my only reason is curiosity - I don't qualify)

[BigEasyStache]

I joined.  To qualify I simply took a snapshot of multiple accounts which added up to the $2.1m.  Redacted all sensitive info.  The approval took about a day and I was emailed personally by the managing director.  It's been 3-4 days now and I have not received any spam or ask for any investment.  It appears their format is to hold occasional forums on a specific investment topic and have members participate and offer any info/knowledge.

They are in the very beginning stages of growing their community and have created groups like "asset allocation", "work optional", "grapevine."  Once I participate in a forum with other members I'll have a much better idea of the usefulness.

Please do report back on what you think of their topics and forums.

Yes :)

(Even though my only reason is curiosity - I don't qualify)

So I've read through a few threads on Long Angle and I'm finding it informative.  They do a pretty deep dive on setting up an LLC for Real Estate Crowdfunding and also how to separate funds between spouses for inheritance purposes.

There's another thread discussing maximum drawdowns on your portfolio in different situations.

I think the main info hit will be when participating in the monthly member workshops where they have a sort of round table on the topic being discussed.

Different from MMM but still a good source of info.  YMMV.

[Car Jack]

I might be interested in joining if I can actually learn about things I want to know about like setting up trusts and tax strategies.  I hit "apply" but X'd out.  Makes me uncomfortable sending my financial info.  I would absolutely NOT use my real name.  Like quite a few here, I do easily qualify financially.  I don't know......the forum description sort of makes it sound like the owner doesn't really understand high net worth people.  The description points to super successful, high end executives, CEOs and business owners.  I've always been a peon worker, working for the man and expect I'll hit double their requirement soon enough. 

[WSUCoug1994]

I joined as well.  I am not opposed to using my name but I also don't publicly disclose my numbers online in any forum.  I did a screenshot of my Mint investment assets (no account numbers listed anywhere) and that was good enough.  I did a 30 minute zoom with one of the founders before being allowed access who shared his personal finance story with me on how they came into their assets as well as why they started the forum.  They are looking at a variety of different financial models from subscription based access as well as inviting members to exclusive investment opportunities (a few of those have already happened as I read through some of the older posts). 

What I have seen so far seems good.  A lot of topics I am interested in (hedgefunds, diversification, insurance, taxes, etc.) that I don't know a lot about.  There isn't a lot of volume yet - as they are just getting started - but I have enjoyed the content I have read so far.  I am going to attend a couple of these workshops and see what they are like but I am excited to watch this platform grow and what I can learn from the user base.

[smoghat]

Call me curious, but not sure. I can easily meet their assets requirements more than two times over, but I dunno.

1. I have a distinctive name and don’t want to have my assets tied to my name on any forum anywhere.
2. I don’t have much interest in hearing about investments. I’ve done my own research, I’ll be glad to share it, but I’ve made 10% over the five years I’ve been FIRE’d while living like a glutton. Meanwhile one wealthy friend was encouraging me to invest in commercial real estate. No, dude, I’m not buying your loser strip mall with a Walgreen’s and an adult book store … He’s basically bankrupt, out of money and his wife is threading eyebrows to keep them afloat. So no, thanks.

I would love to talk to high net worth individuals though, since much as I admire someone FIRE’ing on my monthly spend, I’d like to talk to people more like me. Like where can I get health insurance without it being shitty Obamacare?

[smoghat]

I wrote them and they said that there were no pseudonyms allowed so I wrote back and told them that’s a deal breaker.

I have other things I’m doing and I need the amount of wealth I have to be tied to my name like a hole in the head. And I’m not into trepanning.

[keyvaluepair]

Thanks.

I checked bogleheads back in 2014 - part of what put me off is just how the forum is organized and the software. And it seemed more geared to amassing as much $$ as possible, versus getting enough.  Maybe I would feel different now.

Well, I'm a boglehead and it is really more about low cost investing and staying the course. Furthermore, Jack Bogle wrote the book called "Enough" ;-). There are quite a few folks on BH who are FIRE'ed. If you want to read about trusts, check out the BH Wiki.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Call me curious, but not sure. I can easily meet their assets requirements more than two times over, but I dunno.

I checked recently, and they have two membership levels: $2.2 million and $5 million.

I wrote them and they said that there were no pseudonyms allowed so I wrote back and told them that’s a deal breaker.

That's really unfortunate, but thanks for mentioning it here.

There's a right to privacy, which includes using false names online.  But it can't be to apply for credit or pose as someone else.  Still, that website does have group investments which members can join.  So are the membership documents just for reading/posting on a forum, or are they also involved in the investments?  Seems like a lawyer would be needed to figure out if a false name is legal for that website.

EDIT: struck out part based on new information from law firm's website.

[Paul der Krake]

There is no right to using a false name on a website if the website owner doesn't allow it.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

There is no right to using a false name on a website if the website owner doesn't allow it.

I found a law firm that thinks it can be illegal anywhere - classified as hacking.  That seems strange, but this law firm specializes in online cases:

Using Fake Names
People use fake names on the Internet all the time—but that doesn’t make it legal.  Whether for Facebook accounts, Xbox Live, or a pointless survey that your friend asked you to fill out, using a fake name online in any capacity could get you arrested.  Moreover, you could be charged with the federal crime of hacking, which is punishable for between 5-20 years in prison.

https://hutchersonlaw.com/illegal-online-acts/

Luckily, I logged in to say I'd rather use my real name if I'm going to join.  What I'm curious about is why Angle HNW Forum requires people use real names.  What is their reasoning?

[seattlecyclone]

There is no right to using a false name on a website if the website owner doesn't allow it.

I found a law firm that thinks it can be illegal anywhere - classified as hacking.  That seems strange, but this law firm specializes in online cases:

Using Fake Names
People use fake names on the Internet all the time—but that doesn’t make it legal.  Whether for Facebook accounts, Xbox Live, or a pointless survey that your friend asked you to fill out, using a fake name online in any capacity could get you arrested.  Moreover, you could be charged with the federal crime of hacking, which is punishable for between 5-20 years in prison.

https://hutchersonlaw.com/illegal-online-acts/

I wouldn't put much stock in that blog post. Federal hacking charges are typically brought under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986. This law criminalizes access of a computer without authorization, or exceeding authorized access to a computer. There had historically been a dearth of precedent establishing exactly what this means. An expansive reading would mean that anyone breaking the terms of service on any website was guilty of a felony, since they did something on a computer beyond the written policies that govern access to that system.

The Supreme Court heard a case about this earlier this year. The particulars of the case were that a police officer used a license plate lookup database. He was allowed to use this database as part of his work, but he broke his employer's written policy and used it for personal reasons instead. The Court decided that this type of access was not a felony under the CFAA, essentially because he didn't do anything to circumvent the computer's access controls. All he did was violate a written policy governing the proper use of that information. At the end of the summary of their decision (in which they rejected the Government's more expansive interpretation of the CFAA), they write the following:

The Government’s interpretation of the “exceeds authorized access” clause would attach criminal penalties to a breathtaking amount of commonplace computer activity. For instance, employers commonly state that computers and electronic devices can be used only for business purposes. On the Government’s reading, an employee who sends a personal e-mail or reads the news using a work computer has violated the CFAA. The Government speculates that other provisions might limit its prosecutorial power, but its charging practice and policy indicate otherwise. The Government’s approach would also inject arbitrariness into the assessment of criminal liability, because whether conduct like Van Buren’s violated the CFAA would depend on how an employer phrased the policy violated (as a “use” restriction or an “access” restriction).

Based on this precedent I don't see how simply using a pseudonym online, even on a site that had rules against that, would be accepted by the courts as a violation of the CFAA. If you use a fake name to impersonate another person as part of another crime such as fraud, that's a different story.

Luckily, I logged in to say I'd rather use my real name if I'm going to join.  What I'm curious about is why Angle HNW Forum requires people use real names.  What is their reasoning?

I haven't asked them about it, but I'd guess it's the same reasoning used by other social networks such as Facebook or Google+ when they have required the use of real names. These companies have expressed a belief that attaching a real name and face to a person's post results in a different (and arguably better) culture of discourse on the site. This decision has not been universally popular. Plenty of online communities (this one included) use pseudonyms and it works fine. Pseudonymous communication is especially popular among marginalized groups who might not want their membership in the group to be easily traceable to their real-life identity. I definitely empathize with this viewpoint. We all have our own risk calculus when it comes to putting our information out there online.

[secondcor521]

Regardless of whether or not I would qualify:  If they don't trust me to accurately self-attest my net worth, I don't trust them with my real name tied to my investment assets.

I generally trust people who self-report their net worth on here (on the Net worth progression threads, for example).  I'm sure some don't follow GAAP, some exaggerate, and maybe a few lie.  I've never noticed, but I'm not particularly looking for those behaviors.

I think the discourse here is about on par with another in-person, curated, self-attested, real-name forum I'm in.  So I value neither real names nor net worth "verification".  (It's laughably easy to have a Vanguard screen print say any number you want.)

My 2 cents.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

https://hutchersonlaw.com/illegal-online-acts/

I wouldn't put much stock in that blog post.... Based on this precedent I don't see how simply using a pseudonym online, even on a site that had rules against that, would be accepted by the courts as a violation of the CFAA.

The reason I did put stock is their home page, where they discuss a defamation case where they couldn't get the website to take down the material.  They instead gathered evidence and presented their case to Google, and got it taken down from Google's search results.  That strikes me as something an internet savvy law firm would figure out.  Still, you could be right that the blog entry is more of a scare tactic.

Luckily, I logged in to say I'd rather use my real name if I'm going to join.  What I'm curious about is why Angle HNW Forum requires people use real names.  What is their reasoning?

I haven't asked them about it, but I'd guess it's the same reasoning used by other social networks such as Facebook or Google+ when they have required the use of real names. These companies have expressed a belief that attaching a real name and face to a person's post results in a different (and arguably better) culture of discourse on the site.

That's a good point - there's less hiding behind someone's real name.  You are literally putting your name behind everything you say... then again, on Facebook that hasn't stopped all kinds of misinformation.  But I'd guess with Angle's membership requirements, they probably get far fewer Russian bots ...

[BicycleB]

Looking forward to hearing about any high net worth bots that do show up!  ;)

[SESW Tech]

I wanted to add my two cents as well from joining the group a few months ago.  I've found the signal-to-noise ratio and sophistication of the threads is very impressive.  They've also started to organize collaborative investments.  When a member finds a deal and enough other people find it compelling, the group sets up an LLC to invest collectively to hit high minimums.

The one other thing I wanted to give credit for is the organizers seem to be genuinely taking a community approach.  They run polls a lot. "should we charge a membership fee?" (there is no fee) "should we organize deal flow?" "what topic should we cover in the next Zoom call?"  "should we keep validating net worth?" and then share the raw results and actually follow what the members say.  The guys who started it sold their company, which seems to make them not pushy to monetize... sort of like MMM.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Unfortunately they seem to think ghosting is classy.  They simply ignored my application.  I deliberately mentioned things related to investing, but not investing itself.  If it's 100% about finding things to invest in, that's a very narrow focus.

UPDATE: They caught the earlier mistake and apologized.  The people who run the forum believe this is a less than 1% occurrence.  I ultimately joined the Long Angle HNW forum to discuss things like investments and taxes.

[flyingaway]

I prefer to hang on with LNW people so that I could be out-standing.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I've been on Long Angle HNW forum for about a month.  They host a Zoom call with each potential member to ensure there's a fit, so the membership will naturally be smaller than a forum that just requires an email.  There's fewer posts, but it's more valuable reading each one.

Periodically they offer investment opportunities that have been initially vetted by some of the members.  Think of a hedge fund or venture capital opportunity.

Their current (Jan 2022) requirements are $2.2 million NW, which probably keeps pace with inflation.  Personally I don't agree with trusting random strangers on the internet, so the verification makes sense to me.

[exit2019]

I've been on Long Angle HNW forum for about a month.  They host a Zoom call with each potential member to ensure there's a fit, so the membership will naturally be smaller than a forum that just requires an email.  There's fewer posts, but it's more valuable reading each one.

Periodically they offer investment opportunities that have been initially vetted by some of the members.  Think of a hedge fund or venture capital opportunity.

Their current (Jan 2022) requirements are $2.2 million NW, which probably keeps pace with inflation.  Personally I don't agree with trusting random strangers on the internet, so the verification makes sense to me.

They basically represent a database of real named individuals and proof of both assets and specific brokerages. I would not be comfortable at all with this data sitting in the typically not-secure-at-all site that you find pretty much everywhere.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Their current (Jan 2022) requirements are $2.2 million NW, which probably keeps pace with inflation.  Personally I don't agree with trusting random strangers on the internet, so the verification makes sense to me.

They basically represent a database of real named individuals and proof of both assets and specific brokerages. I would not be comfortable at all with this data sitting in the typically not-secure-at-all site that you find pretty much everywhere.

I think I might bring up that point, actually - how much security do they have around member names and the account information.  I mitigated that risk myself by providing a page of my statement with no account numbers.

They don't require specific brokerages - real estate investors can join, for example.

On the Long Angle website they mention "Deal Flow", which is real.  They reach out to hedge funds, setup the needed legal framework, and members can invest as a group with lower minimums.  Sometimes deals require the investor have $5M in assets in order to participate - and then require less than 1% of that to invest in it!

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Follow up: Long Angle uses the ultimate security for materials used to apply to the website: they're deleted.

One surprise downside: I thought on Long Angle I'd be comfortable sharing exact dollar amounts instead of percentages, but I'm still more comfortable only talking percentages.

Upside: reddit had a "FatFIRE" forum that started as mostly discussions between very rich people - like how to sell their business.  Now those people are completely outnumbered by random people, which turns it mostly into noise.  Limiting membership prevents that problem, among others.

[NoEllipsis]

Follow up: Long Angle uses the ultimate security for materials used to apply to the website: they're deleted.

One surprise downside: I thought on Long Angle I'd be comfortable sharing exact dollar amounts instead of percentages, but I'm still more comfortable only talking percentages.

Upside: reddit had a "FatFIRE" forum that started as mostly discussions between very rich people - like how to sell their business.  Now those people are completely outnumbered by random people, which turns it mostly into noise.  Limiting membership prevents that problem, among others.

They may delete the account verification stuff, but they still have a database full of real names and email addresses for high net worth individuals. It's like a database full of juicy targets. If someone stole that list, while they might not know the specifics of where your assets lie I bet if they created some fraud alert to everyone about their Vanguard/Shwab/Fidelity account, a high number of those people would have those accounts.

Hopefully most high net worth people know how to deal with spam/fraud/fishing but new creative ways to steal this info keep happening and if they get 1 high net worth account then it was all worth it to them.

[bacchi]

What happens if you joined but now have less than the $2.2m minimum? Are you booted?

Asking for a friend.

[shuffler]

What happens if you joined but now have less than the $2.2m minimum? Are you booted?

Asking for a friend.

NSF Fees.

[FreshlyFIREd]

Some might call me an imposter on this forum.

I am not extreme ... in a frugal way. I spend excessive amounts of money on luxury items that others on this forum would not agree with. I. am retired, but I worked until I was in my late fifties. I am here because of the content. There are really great ideas and lots of wisdom here. I hang out at Bogleheads, and other sites. I have assets in excess of the HNW forum, so I guess I could join ... but I'm not even going to consider it for a minute. It sounds like a club.

Did I get smarter at $1, 2, 3, 4, 5MM?? Contrary to belief ... is that having money doesn't make you smarter. I have been involved in many restricted access clubs, events, etc. I come from money (kinda). There are LOTS of dumb people with money ... just like there are lots of smart people with no money.

I'm not saying that there could be an advantage or two by hanging out there. All I'm saying is that I came from money ... I've had access to the brokers, lawyers, CPA's, education, etc. My real education about money didn't come from privilege and access, it came from books, and web sites such as Bogleheads and MMM.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

What happens if you joined but now have less than the $2.2m minimum? Are you booted?

Asking for a friend.

The minimum used to be $2m, and they delete your verification info.  So I don't see how they could.  Someone joining with over $5m has access to certain deals with that requirement, so they probably track $2.2m vs $5m NW.

I haven't seen anything on the site that tells me who has $5m NW and who doesn't.  It seems to only matter as a requirement for certain deals.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

I am not extreme ... in a frugal way. I spend excessive amounts of money on luxury items that others on this forum would not agree with. I. am retired, but I worked until I was in my late fifties. I am here because of the content. There are really great ideas and lots of wisdom here. I hang out at Bogleheads, and other sites. I have assets in excess of the HNW forum, so I guess I could join ... but I'm not even going to consider it for a minute. It sounds like a club.

Did I get smarter at $1, 2, 3, 4, 5MM?? Contrary to belief ... is that having money doesn't make you smarter. I have been involved in many restricted access clubs, events, etc. I come from money (kinda). There are LOTS of dumb people with money ... just like there are lots of smart people with no money.

I'm not saying that there could be an advantage or two by hanging out there. All I'm saying is that I came from money ... I've had access to the brokers, lawyers, CPA's, education, etc. My real education about money didn't come from privilege and access, it came from books, and web sites such as Bogleheads and MMM.

I would say MMM is better as a source for general investment information.  But I think certain investment books are even better than MMM in that regard (like A Random Walk Down Wall Street).  There's also far more members on the MMM forums, and the site has already scaled up to deal with that level of activity.

I'm not sure where you got the impression Long Angle exists to make people smarter.  I haven't seen that as a goal on any investment forum.  It does provide a place where people with high net worth can share information, but even then it's still random strangers on the internet (with real names, which are required).

Many years ago reddit's FatFIRE consisted mostly of high NW people discussing topics of interest to them.  But it has been overrun, and is now almost entirely people wanting to get rich asking how.  I liked what FatFIRE was originally, and I view Long Angle as similar to that - with the added benefit of optional deals for members to participate in.

[waltworks]

My whole neighborhood/zipcode probably qualifies and IMO there's not much point in seeking out the opinions of rich people as a group. There's a lot of born on 3rd basers, a lot of middle managers who were in the right place at the right time, etc. They aren't very creative or particularly fun as a general rule, but I'm comparing to my long term friends who are all PhD/world adventurer/professional athlete (or all of the above) types so maybe that's unfair.

And IMO they're not great investors. I have had many conversations about money/investing (in which I mostly nod affirmatively and listen) with folks in my neighborhood and they're... not sophisticated at all.

Maybe this new rich people forum attracts the more sophisticated rich folks, but that's probably just really an older and stodgier version of the people here when it comes right down to it. Investing is very boring and very simple if you're doing it right, so there's only so much to really say once you're 30 years in and loaded other than "yeah the boring simple thing worked".

-W

[FreshlyFIREd]

I'm not sure where you got the impression Long Angle exists to make people smarter.  I haven't seen that as a goal on any investment forum.  It does provide a place where people with high net worth can share information, but even then it's still random strangers on the internet (with real names, which are required).

Definition of smart, smarter: "...learning or thinking about things..."

Maybe I've been going about this whole internet thing wrong???? I'm really confused now.

I'm on financial forums to learn or think about things related to finance.

I'm on sporting forums to learn or think about things related to sports.

I'm on (fill in the blank) forums to learn or think about things related to (fill in the blank).

If you're not in this forum to be smarter, why else would you be here? Why not hang out on the pottery place or the astrophysics forum? Unless (of course) you wanted to get smarter in those subjects.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Do you avoid Facebook?  If your only goal is getting smarter, Facebook doesn't fit - but it's one of the most popular websites out there.  Same with Amazon: you could buy reading material that makes you smarter, but most spending on Amazon is for other things.  I've seen two comedians ask their audience "Anyone use porn?" ... to silence.  And they reply "Oh, so I'm supporting a billion dollar industry by myself?", which is a good way to make the point.  Most of the internet is not about getting smarter.

Similarly, one reason to join Long Angle is community.  If you want to talk about expensive trips or items, you will get mocked on reddit.  You will likely feel uncomfortable asking about it here.  But on Long Angle, you'd know that others may have already spent that kind of money, or won't think it unaffordable.

For me, personally, I've found the deal flow interesting.  I spent hours analyzing the most recent one, and others make points to improve my understanding.  Those deals cannot be offered to someone with $50k NW, as they require someone be an accredited investor.  Some deals are structured in a way that requires an even higher NW, which is also referenced on the site ($2.2M vs $5M NW levels).

[DaTrill]

Are there more advanced discussions on taxes, RMDs, trusts, for those near the exemption amounts?  I'm comfortable with investing but inexperienced with tax avoidance strategies.  Had a "good problem to have" in 2020 and hoping to avoid these tax surprises in the future. 

I'd be weary of any investments, how much the website takes off the top and if the owners of the website are senior and members junior investors.  A few "disruptive" finance platforms I've come across all have dubious policies with deal flow, holding periods, first refusal and priority. 

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Are there more advanced discussions on taxes, RMDs, trusts, for those near the exemption amounts?  I'm comfortable with investing but inexperienced with tax avoidance strategies.  Had a "good problem to have" in 2020 and hoping to avoid these tax surprises in the future.

Some of trusts and real estate, but not a detailed delve into taxes or RMDs.  I had a stunning 2020-2021 myself with returns so good nobody would believe me if I posted the percentages, so I haven't.  I invested in beaten up stocks the market wrote off for bankruptcy - and the market was wrong!  So to be fair, I also wanted to discuss donations and tax implications, and there has been some discussion of philanthropy, but it's a smaller forum with less activity overall.

I'd be weary of any investments, how much the website takes off the top and if the owners of the website are senior and members junior investors.  A few "disruptive" finance platforms I've come across all have dubious policies with deal flow, holding periods, first refusal and priority.

After years of low cost indexing, it will take a lot for me to agree to the typical hedge fund expenses.  There are costs by the hedge fund and to forming an LLC for members to jointly invest in.  They provide a summary of the up front costs, including their own.

I wonder if a missing element in these situations is direct feedback from the hedge fund itself?  Meaning if I get an overview of how the hedge fund performed each month or quarter, I can compare that against the returns I get from the deal flow.  I trust they would be open to the idea, although I don't know the mechanics on the hedge fund side of things.

[DaTrill]

I am in a similar boat and made a five-figure mistake on a six-figure gain. Happy to have the gain but would rather minimize the 'mistakes' in the future.  I'm in "No-man's-land" as far as managing capital.  Have enough to make large mistakes, but not enough to hire someone and make it worth the 1%+ management fees.  I'd estimate one needs about $100 mil to pay for good services, between $20-$100 mil is probably break-even, under $20 mil you are just paying for hand holding and not worth it for any good family office to take on.  Discussion of tax strategies in the do it yourself is what I am looking for.         

HF have extremely flexible fee structures where there are all kinds of side deals and fee structures for different levels of customers.  FOMO is probably significant as one only sees the big gains, but most low-level accredited investors lose in these structures.  Whatever you can imagine happens with HF structures as the assumption is the investor is accredited and can read the prospectus like an attorney and understand all the nuances.  It's beyond my skillset and don't like reading legal briefs designed to confuse.