Author Topic: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?  (Read 17993 times)

ca-rn

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Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« on: November 02, 2022, 01:16:24 PM »
I'm planning to ExpatFIRE after reaching 55, in 3 years!   Have a lot to figure out and plan...

I have enough to FIRE in the US but want to live in walkable/bikable/transit rich places around the world for 5-10 years while healthy/able. 

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 

All investment with Vanguard- brokerage/rIrA/401k.  Have tiny Fidelity CMA account, opened but never used.  Have separate brokerage account for property to handle major repairs/improvements.  Plan to visit 1-2x/year. 

Plan to slow travel, budget 2-3k/month, using bike/transit over flying (obviously will fly to start).  In bike infrastructure rich countries, I'll take my bike. 
Want to see the usual places- Europe, SE Asia, Asia (Korea,Japan,Taiwan), Central/South America.

1) Plan route with visa restrictions in mind, chasing better weather- less stuff to carry.

2) Explore places I want to stay longer and offer longer visas.

3) Plan how to access my money!  May need to switch to Schwab or Fidelity for long term travel?







 

Poeirenta

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2022, 02:06:06 PM »
We are strongly considering it, so PTF!

Married, no kids, with similar goals and questions. Our two biggest things that we get stuck on are whether/how to hang onto our paid off house and acreage and what to do about our middle aged cat. Because we are fairly remote and have an off grid electrical system, renting it out or even getting a caretaker seems unlikely.

We have the option to work remotely, so the digital nomad visas that are popping up look interesting, except for the ones with the really high monthly income requirements! But we are also open to establishing permanent residency or citizenship elsewhere, with Portugal being at the top of our "dig into the details" list.

We have been using the Schwab Investor checking account for foreign travel since 2016 and it has worked well. I think we would maintain a US address so we could transfer $ from our other accounts into Schwab and/or use Wise to transfer into a local bank account if we went the residency route.

reeshau

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2022, 02:08:24 PM »
If you are planning to stay long enough to establish residency somewhere, be aware that nearly no tax treaties recognize the tax status of Roth accounts.  If you end up getting taxed on remittances in the host country, they may view your Roth dollars as untamed, and take the opportunity to rectify the situation.

Or, just make sure you always stay under that level, and watch just what kind of visa you are getting.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2022, 03:18:15 PM »
We are strongly considering it, so PTF!

Married, no kids, with similar goals and questions. Our two biggest things that we get stuck on are whether/how to hang onto our paid off house and acreage and what to do about our middle aged cat. Because we are fairly remote and have an off grid electrical system, renting it out or even getting a caretaker seems unlikely.

We have the option to work remotely, so the digital nomad visas that are popping up look interesting, except for the ones with the really high monthly income requirements! But we are also open to establishing permanent residency or citizenship elsewhere, with Portugal being at the top of our "dig into the details" list.

We have been using the Schwab Investor checking account for foreign travel since 2016 and it has worked well. I think we would maintain a US address so we could transfer $ from our other accounts into Schwab and/or use Wise to transfer into a local bank account if we went the residency route.

Travelling with an middle aged cat will be challenging, though possible by RV through Mexico, Central America?
Are you planning to travel abroad and return to your home after? 

I'll be generating rental income and will get taxed no matter where in the world so might as well keep my homebase for now. 

I've read that Schwab is more "flexible" for long term abroad travelers compared to Vanguard and Fidelity.  Was that a consideration when you chose Schwab?

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2022, 03:30:19 PM »
If you are planning to stay long enough to establish residency somewhere, be aware that nearly no tax treaties recognize the tax status of Roth accounts.  If you end up getting taxed on remittances in the host country, they may view your Roth dollars as untamed, and take the opportunity to rectify the situation.

Or, just make sure you always stay under that level, and watch just what kind of visa you are getting.

Ugh, taxes and healthcare are big bombs that follow US citizens no matter where we go! 

I did read France, Belgium, Malta, UK, Canada, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania recognizes rIRA as retirement accounts and tax free.

reeshau

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2022, 04:14:08 PM »
Yeah, Canada and the UK are generally the most comprehensive treaties--they stay up-to-date.

A big clue is to look at the last date a treaty was updated.  While there is no guarantee a recent treaty has something worked out, it would be impossible for a tax treaty older than 1997 to recognize a Roth, because they didn't exist.  They are also rather rare as after-tax tax-advantaged accounts.

Unfortunately for me, Ireland's treaty dates from 1997--it's not in there.

Looks like France added a technical note on Roth in 2004.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/united-states-income-tax-treaties-a-to-z

They aren't thrilling reading, but they are easy to word search through.

uk_american1

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2022, 05:50:11 AM »

...two biggest things that we get stuck on are whether/how to hang onto our paid off house and acreage and what to do about our middle aged cat. Because we are fairly remote and have an off grid electrical system, renting it out or even getting a caretaker seems unlikely.


Not to derail the OP's thread, but consider     https://www.trustedhousesitters.com/    for your home and cat care.

I do cat sitting via the site and off-grid and remote locations do get picked up, especially if it's longer term. I've seen listings for people going on deployment for six or nine months and they go pretty fast. There are often remote sits in South America or Spain with limited/no internet and they attract writers or people who prefer remote living. Even if you need to list it in six months blocks getting one sitter to hand over to another is easily possible.

uk_american1

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2022, 06:04:58 AM »
In addition to visa restrictions, it's helpful to consider taxes and how much time you'll spend on those visits back.

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is often useful if you're living abroad:
https://www.gocurrycracker.com/never-pay-taxes-by-moving-abroad/

For example if you're not coming home each year but want to do a long trip back to the States, you can plan it for December/January so that you're splitting your residency between tax years.

Also, maybe look into a tax accountant who is well-versed in these items if you are going the visa route and expect to have residency in a foreign country, in particular if it's a country that taxes on worldwide income. When I first moved abroad my small hometown accountant wasn't used to this setup so I missed out on some things. When I lived in Germany I had a US based accountant doing my German and US taxes. In the UK I have a UK accountant doing my UK/US ones. 

flyingaway

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2022, 06:48:52 AM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

jim555

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2022, 11:29:54 AM »
I looked into some places since I'm US/UK.  Isle of Man has no cap gains, inheritance, stamp duty, and a top 20% rate.  Gibraltar has no cap gains, no tax on interest or dividends, no inheritance tax, no wealth taxes.  But you need private health cover if you don't pay taxes.

lutorm

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2022, 03:29:56 PM »
IIRC Vanguard is not friendly to non-residents. I believe you'd have to move your assets to another brokerage.

tj

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2022, 08:33:32 PM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

I'm surprised that it costs that much. That's about what I spend in the US. Would I have a higher standard of living over there?

flyingaway

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2022, 09:11:51 PM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

I'm surprised that it costs that much. That's about what I spend in the US. Would I have a higher standard of living over there?

Yes. I was talking about living in a big city like Bangkok with all the activities. You could eat cheap and good food at a restaurant for $2.

tj

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2022, 09:58:33 PM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

I'm surprised that it costs that much. That's about what I spend in the US. Would I have a higher standard of living over there?

Yes. I was talking about living in a big city like Bangkok with all the activities. You could eat cheap and good food at a restaurant for $2.

As someone who loathes cooking, that is quite appealing. I think Bangkok might be too busy for me. I don't care about bars, partying, etc.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2022, 03:18:23 AM »
If you're interested in Europe, Italy (and I think also France) has a retirement visa for non EU citizens with a certain amount of passive income every month.  You can't work at all on the Italian visa including online.  It's called an elective residency visa if you want to google it.

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2022, 05:09:37 AM »
DH and I are absolutely interested in moving, traveling, being nomadic, etc in our next phase of life.

Right now my medical needs are high, but once that's done, assuming I regain my ability to walk, we will likely be off adventuring all over the place for undefined lengths of time.

For now, the closest we've come is buying a small house in a rural fishing village in Newfoundland, which although is still in Canada, might as well be another country. DH has lived abroad in a number of places and he said transitioning to rural Newfoundland was more dramatic a change.

flyingaway

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2022, 05:28:32 AM »
In theory, if you are not formally moving to a country to live permanently there, you can use debit cards to withdraw cash from ATMs to meet your daily money needs.
Living overseas is not for everyone, or even for most people. You have to decide what you want, and what you can give up by not living in the U.S. or whatever is your home country.
As far as I know, most people who choose to retire in another country are: (1) having family ties with that country, one or both were originally from that country, (2) better quality of living for the same amount of money, (3) better weather, (4) and other particular needs.

tarheeldan

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2022, 06:18:20 AM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts. 


Metalcat

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2022, 06:23:03 AM »
In theory, if you are not formally moving to a country to live permanently there, you can use debit cards to withdraw cash from ATMs to meet your daily money needs.
Living overseas is not for everyone, or even for most people. You have to decide what you want, and what you can give up by not living in the U.S. or whatever is your home country.
As far as I know, most people who choose to retire in another country are: (1) having family ties with that country, one or both were originally from that country, (2) better quality of living for the same amount of money, (3) better weather, (4) and other particular needs.

In our case it's a desire to immersively experience different cultures, and I frankly just can't stand living in one place for too long, it makes me antsy.

Both DH and I are looking to do work in retirement that will relocate us all over for various contract lengths. We're particularly interested in regions that aren't necessarily popular for travel.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2022, 12:29:40 PM »
In addition to visa restrictions, it's helpful to consider taxes and how much time you'll spend on those visits back.

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is often useful if you're living abroad:
https://www.gocurrycracker.com/never-pay-taxes-by-moving-abroad/

For example if you're not coming home each year but want to do a long trip back to the States, you can plan it for December/January so that you're splitting your residency between tax years.

Also, maybe look into a tax accountant who is well-versed in these items if you are going the visa route and expect to have residency in a foreign country, in particular if it's a country that taxes on worldwide income. When I first moved abroad my small hometown accountant wasn't used to this setup so I missed out on some things. When I lived in Germany I had a US based accountant doing my German and US taxes. In the UK I have a UK accountant doing my UK/US ones.

I don't plan to work at all after retiring.  But will have passive income (rental income), withdrawals from brokerage account and accessing 401k (via rule of 55) to convert into RothIRA to file taxes for.

At this time, I plan to travel for 10 years (returning annually) and then finally return back to the US at 65'ish and decide to stay or not.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2022, 12:31:48 PM »
IIRC Vanguard is not friendly to non-residents. I believe you'd have to move your assets to another brokerage.

Yes, that's the plan to move them out of Vanguard into Schwab or Fidelity. 
If after 65, I find a "forever" place outside of the US, I will transfer to IB. 

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2022, 12:38:07 PM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

I'm surprised that it costs that much. That's about what I spend in the US. Would I have a higher standard of living over there?

That's my planned budget to include travel and exploring, including housing and buying vs making food.

My current personal budget (minus mortgage) is tons less because I cook at home and honestly don't do a lot of traveling and exploring further from home (also not easy unless I use a car and I hate to drive).  I take long walks now and it costs nothing to very little.

I want to travel to walkable/bikable/transit rich places and just walk or jump on a bus and explore.  Quiet exploring in places not dominated by cars.

I expect spending will be less in SE Asia and more in Europe.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2022, 12:48:15 PM »
In theory, if you are not formally moving to a country to live permanently there, you can use debit cards to withdraw cash from ATMs to meet your daily money needs.
Living overseas is not for everyone, or even for most people. You have to decide what you want, and what you can give up by not living in the U.S. or whatever is your home country.
As far as I know, most people who choose to retire in another country are: (1) having family ties with that country, one or both were originally from that country, (2) better quality of living for the same amount of money, (3) better weather, (4) and other particular needs.

My main reason for long term traveling is if I'm going to buy healthcare (once retired) I should also spend that time living in walkable/bikable/transit rich countries too.  And get to experience other cultures, people, foods, weather...

I live in Los Angeles, will soon own my property out right, with "amazing" weather but its also car choked and is just getting me down lately especially when I know there are other cities/countries that prioritize moving people over cars.

So I think I'm traveling for better quality of life overall and hope that after 10 years, my little neighborhood will be more transit/bike friendly than it is today.

Otherwise, i'll of had 10 years experience living and looking for a place to land long term. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 12:51:14 PM by ca-rn »

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2022, 12:54:54 PM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you! I knew Vanguard is the worst if planning to expat but I didn't know Fidelity is also no good. 

I do plan to keep my home in the US, does that still make Fidelity workable?

I had planned to split my Vanguard account into Fidelity and Schwab, then 2 atm cards, 2 baskets...

reeshau

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2022, 03:40:28 PM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you! I knew Vanguard is the worst if planning to expat but I didn't know Fidelity is also no good. 

I do plan to keep my home in the US, does that still make Fidelity workable?

I had planned to split my Vanguard account into Fidelity and Schwab, then 2 atm cards, 2 baskets...

If your home will be your US mailing address, then yes that works fine.  I was in Ireland for 2 years, but used my in-law's address as my US address, for all financials, driver's license, etc. with no problems, after establishing residency there.

But if you will be renting out your place, you will have to resolve a separate mailing address, or trust them to handle it.

If you really want to "don't ask, don't tell" your US banks, you should also have a US phone number.  So many use 2 factor authentication, at least occasionally as your anti-virus cleans out your cookies.  If you can't set that to an email address, you will want a US phone number because a) their system may only work with US numbers or b) it could be a clue you aren't residing in the US.  It isn't too expensive to move your US phone to a VOIP provider, or switch to Google Fi for global access.

flyingaway

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2022, 05:43:19 PM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you! I knew Vanguard is the worst if planning to expat but I didn't know Fidelity is also no good. 

I do plan to keep my home in the US, does that still make Fidelity workable?

I had planned to split my Vanguard account into Fidelity and Schwab, then 2 atm cards, 2 baskets...

Based on what you wrote and my own experience, you will have no problem to leave your assets at Vanguard or any other firms. You are not retiring to another country, but travel to other countries on a long-term basis.

My experience is to get a checking account a Fidelity or Schwab (or both) to use their debit cards with no fees. Although U.S. dollars can be handy and easily exchanged to local currencies at very close to the official rate, you certainly need some debit cards for long term travels.

Rubic

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2022, 06:07:45 AM »
I've submitted my D7 visa application to the Portuguese embassy and expect to hear back from them in about 4-6 weeks (based on crowd-sourced data). My plan is to relocate to Lisbon in January.

I've signed a 12-month lease (renewable) in a nice walkable neighborhood which has subway access, bus, and ebike rentals. I'll be selling my 22 yo Toyota just before I leave the US.

The D7 visa has a 5-year pathway to citizenship if I were to decide to pursue it. I will qualify for DHR tax status which will apply to my first 10 years of residency -- afterward I will pay normal Portuguese tax rates.

Single, no kids, no pets, so my specific situation makes things much easier to relocate. I grew up as a military brat, so living in a foreign country isn't a new thing for me. It's quite possible that this whole adventure may turn out to be a bust, but even if I later return to the US, I will have enjoyed the opportunity to live outside the US for the experience.

I shall try to adhere to Expat Rule #1: Don't purchase anything you can't take with you or leave behind.


ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2022, 08:22:34 PM »
I've submitted my D7 visa application to the Portuguese embassy and expect to hear back from them in about 4-6 weeks (based on crowd-sourced data). My plan is to relocate to Lisbon in January.

I've signed a 12-month lease (renewable) in a nice walkable neighborhood which has subway access, bus, and ebike rentals. I'll be selling my 22 yo Toyota just before I leave the US.

The D7 visa has a 5-year pathway to citizenship if I were to decide to pursue it. I will qualify for DHR tax status which will apply to my first 10 years of residency -- afterward I will pay normal Portuguese tax rates.

Single, no kids, no pets, so my specific situation makes things much easier to relocate. I grew up as a military brat, so living in a foreign country isn't a new thing for me. It's quite possible that this whole adventure may turn out to be a bust, but even if I later return to the US, I will have enjoyed the opportunity to live outside the US for the experience.

I shall try to adhere to Expat Rule #1: Don't purchase anything you can't take with you or leave behind.

Congrats! 

Have you been to Portugal before?  I've been to Spain and France but didn't have a chance to explore Portugal yet- the weather/cost of living/taxes are appealing.

A D7 visa requires on to stay in Portugal for more than 183 consecutive days.  Does that mean you can't leave anytime within the 183 days for a short trip outside of Portugal?



Rubic

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2022, 06:10:36 AM »
Have you been to Portugal before?  I've been to Spain and France but didn't have a chance to explore Portugal yet- the weather/cost of living/taxes are appealing.

I did a scouting expedition back in September to get a feel for the neighborhood
that I was interested in living, and to meet with my realtor.

Quote
A D7 visa requires on to stay in Portugal for more than 183 consecutive days.  Does that mean you can't leave anytime within the 183 days for a short trip outside of Portugal?

The requirements are a bit more complicated, but a simplified version is that I'll be
living in the country 6 consecutive months, or 8 non-consecutive months, per year.

For my situation, this won't be a problem, but if you had commitments that would
take you out of the country for more than a few months out of the year, it's probably
not the visa you'd apply for.

-Rubic



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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2022, 09:51:43 AM »
We moved from the US to rural Nova Scotia (pre-FIRE, but close).  In terms of brokerages, I've found Fidelity is OK for retirement accounts but not for taxable.  IB was a non-starter (even for retirement accounts) for US citizens in Canada.  TD Ameritrade, TIAA and Nationwide have also been fine for retirement accounts.  We moved our taxable account to a Canadian brokerage (in USD) which has been handy as they give tax docs for both the US and Canada.

Once DD is out of the house (or possibly before then) we've talked about spending longish stints in other countries.  DW and I are both ESL teachers (her currently, me historically) so it would be pretty easy for one of us to get a part-time job in a lot of places that would get us a visa.  There's also the ELF program through the state department that has 1-2 year projects all over the world.  I've been invited to do a few programs through them over the years, and in retirement it could be a fun way to see some interesting places.

As far as where, I'm personally interested in Eastern Europe, and I've spent a lot of time in Asia (living 5 years in Taiwan and 1 in China).  Bhutan is definitely on my bucket list, and there's a program to teach English there for a couple of years that really appeals to me.  I need to convince DW about driving on the mountain roads, though. :)

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2022, 05:42:33 PM »
Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address.
This is not what Fidelity told me. They said you can't open an account as a non-resident, but you can keep your existing accounts. (But it does seem to depend somewhat on what your country of residence is.)

I also believe that if you tell them a US address you don't actually live at just to pretend that you are still a US resident without being so, you're still in violation of the account terms of the brokerages that don't serve US nonresidents and are at risk of having your account closed when they find out...

tarheeldan

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2022, 11:53:15 AM »
You can keep the account but it's liquidation only.  My Dad was with them,  and moved to Schwab International because of this

rachael talcott

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2022, 10:16:34 AM »
I moved to Paris in January at the age of 47, and just renewed my visa for 2023.  I'm loving it so far.  It sounds like you're less interested in settling in one place, though.

lutorm

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2022, 01:01:57 PM »
You can keep the account but it's liquidation only.  My Dad was with them,  and moved to Schwab International because of this
Again, not what Fidelity told me. According to them, that only applies to mutual funds. Maybe it's country specific. What country did he move to?

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2022, 07:23:01 PM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you! I knew Vanguard is the worst if planning to expat but I didn't know Fidelity is also no good. 

I do plan to keep my home in the US, does that still make Fidelity workable?

I had planned to split my Vanguard account into Fidelity and Schwab, then 2 atm cards, 2 baskets...
Another consideration: if your house is in CA, NY or a high tax state, they might argue you are only moving away temporarily - and owe state taxes.

For expats, Schwab International and IBKR seem to be good choices.

You file FBAR once your foreign bank accounts and other assets exceed $10,000 :
"the aggregate value of those foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported."
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

And then above $200,000 in assets ($400k married), you become a reporting person.  I'm not sure if foreign banks will keep your account open after this:
"FATCA will also require certain foreign financial institutions to report directly to the IRS information about financial accounts held by U.S. taxpayers"
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/summary-of-fatca-reporting-for-us-taxpayers

HenryDavid

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2023, 06:27:38 PM »
We have been half and half, Canada/France, for years now. Just set up house sitters for a 10 month French sojourn this time around.
It helps to have EU status, which we do because: ancestors.
It’s fascinating how each experience sheds light on the other.
But mainly, in France there are not so damn many cars every place. Where we live.

Metalcat

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2023, 09:58:03 AM »
We have been half and half, Canada/France, for years now. Just set up house sitters for a 10 month French sojourn this time around.
It helps to have EU status, which we do because: ancestors.
It’s fascinating how each experience sheds light on the other.
But mainly, in France there are not so damn many cars every place. Where we live.

How are you managing residency and healthcare if you are going for 10 months?

Villanelle

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2023, 11:02:17 AM »
We are considering it, though only at an abstract at this point.  I can see us being nomadic, slow-travelers for a year or so (hitting ~10-12 places plus a some for very short stays en-route).  And then settling somewhere and traveling a few times a year.  I would almost certainly want to settle in Europe (or maaaaaaybe South America) which makes visas more complicated (but not impossible) and isn't as cheap as parts of Asia.  I also need to figure out healthcare.  We will have great insurance with DH's military retirement, but I don't think there is international coverage, so thats a huge barrier because it's an expense we haven't been counting on.  We could always return to the US for major medical care if-needed, but that wouldn't cover expensive accidents or smaller things. 

But we've spent so long living overseas for DH's work that I won't consider it while our parents are still around.  Hopefully, they will stick with us for quite a while, so all this is still pretty far out. 

Villanelle

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2023, 12:23:26 PM »
We are considering it, though only at an abstract at this point.  I can see us being nomadic, slow-travelers for a year or so (hitting ~10-12 places plus a some for very short stays en-route).  And then settling somewhere and traveling a few times a year.  I would almost certainly want to settle in Europe (or maaaaaaybe South America) which makes visas more complicated (but not impossible) and isn't as cheap as parts of Asia.  I also need to figure out healthcare.  We will have great insurance with DH's military retirement, but I don't think there is international coverage, so thats a huge barrier because it's an expense we haven't been counting on.  We could always return to the US for major medical care if-needed, but that wouldn't cover expensive accidents or smaller things. 

But we've spent so long living overseas for DH's work that I won't consider it while our parents are still around.  Hopefully, they will stick with us for quite a while, so all this is still pretty far out.
Check out Tricare Overseas which covers health insurance for military retirees living overseas. The VA also covers overseas veterans who have a service-connected injury or disability but only for that not overall healthcare.  https://www.tricare-overseas.com/

I'm FIRE already and am heading overseas (Europe) soon to do a bit of longer term nomadic travel (how long? IDK!) and had thought often about being a full time expat.  I sold my house awhile ago, got rid of most everything I own, single,  no kids or close family here except sister (and long term friends) and have been renting (which I'm giving up) so nothing really holding me back. But I'm unlikely to do it for various reasons, healthcare being one as I can use the VA for very low cost coverage anywhere in the US,  and after some travel I will likely settle back in the US. But you never know!


Thank you!  I had no idea that was a thing and I just did a cursory search.  Seems like it is all treatment at an MTF.  I have to figure out if you are eligible if you don't actually live near an MTF but are willing to travel.  Still wouldn't work for emergencies or hospitalizations for something serious where you can't travel, but it might work at least for regular care and non-emergent situations, depending on where we hypothetically would be.  Thanks!

merryt

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2023, 01:09:00 PM »
We are doing something similar. We are doing mostly one month rentals on airbnb/booking.com or doing pet sits with trustedhousesitters. We switched our US address to in-laws, use google voice + vpn for things that require you to be in the states. We havent went through the formal steps of saying we live somewhere else. It has been 19 months, but had to take a 3 month break in the middle to help with someone dying. We have ran into other retired folks who are doing the same.

We are currently doing tourist visas everywhere, only issue so far is managing schengen days. We are doing a dog sit for someone who lives in a schengen country but doesnt have citizenship. She manages to make it work through frequent trips to the UK.

If you like biking and are okay being more nomadic we did some of the eurovelo trails and i would highly recomend them.

I would guess we are breaking some kinda tax law, or not optimizing our taxes perfectly. However it is really nice to try lots of different places.

tj

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2023, 02:02:09 PM »

US citizen, single, no kids, investment property will be paid off with family members who will manage/live on site, with 1-2 units rented- 1 rental covers tax/insurance/utilities/small repairs. 
 

In my opinion, single and no kid are two important criteria for that kind of life style. I just came back from a month long trip to SE Aisa, I can visualize living there long term as a single and no kid person on $2~3k per month.

I'm surprised that it costs that much. That's about what I spend in the US. Would I have a higher standard of living over there?
I agree. Especially if you are living in LCOL countries/areas. Also consider sharing with another person to cut costs. I'm also single and kidless but don't really have a budget. I  was planning on about $20k/year for living expenses while travelling but leaving it flexible.

ETA: I just read that @ca-rn is planning on that amount to cover travel related expenses too not just housing/lodging, food, etc. So that is a good budget for a single kidless person imho. And if they are planning on 10 years if travel and expat living in many places then that will likely be low-ish.

Ah, I did not realize the stated budget included ongoing global travel costs. I interpreted it as settling down long term in one specific part of SE Asia.

HenryDavid

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2023, 02:56:53 PM »
We have been half and half, Canada/France, for years now. Just set up house sitters for a 10 month French sojourn this time around.
It helps to have EU status, which we do because: ancestors.
It’s fascinating how each experience sheds light on the other.
But mainly, in France there are not so damn many cars every place. Where we live.

How are you managing residency and healthcare if you are going for 10 months?

Residency: one of us has an EU passport, just luck since dad was not yet Canadian when she was born. And for moi, it was not too hard to do the bureaucracy to get a "carte de sejour," or long-stay visa. After 15 years of renewals, it's now permanent. You can ask Canada for a Canadian long-stay visa for France, but in my experience, that paperwork took longer than the French paperwork. So much for the French red-tape clichés.

Health care: Canada and France both have socialized medicine, yay, and have made some kind of agreements about coverage. So, if a Canadian visits a French doctor, they bill you (say $50 Cdn for a consultation, maybe about your terrible allergies, or an ear infection) and then give you a form to claim the costs back from your provincial health plan. (Ditto at the pharmacy. You pay for the allergy drugs and they give you a claim form to take home. Works for the dentist too.)
It's kind of the same for the hospital--except they just bill the whole thing to your Canadian provincial plan, which then bills you personally for any difference in what's covered. As in, say an MRI is deemed to cost $1000 in Canada, and France tells your provincial plan that your French MRI cost $1500.00.  You pay the difference. These are completely made-up amounts to illustrate the concept. For example, a friend had a hiking mishap and got all the ER tests and scans, a shoulder sling, drugs, etc., and ended up paying $300 Canadian once back in B.C.

So the gist of it is that, for everyday living, if you have no demanding health care needs, there's very little to think about. Another  Canadian friend had emergency stroke care, with stents put in place, and it all worked as described above. Including the helicopter ambulance from their small village to the big city! Amazing.

We self-insure for the scary catastrophic prospects like emergency transport back to Canada. Yet another Canadian friend needed this, and because he was so elderly and frail, he required a nurse to accompany him. It cost many thousands. We keep the funds on hand.

One important thing though: if you are absent from your province for more than 6-7 months in a year (this varies by province), you may no longer be covered upon your return, until a designated number of months have passed. In our case, we can call the province's health care admin and say "we are leaving for a long sabbatical/work/educational trip and will exceed this limit next year." Supposedly this is OK to do, intermittently. This year will be our first test of this arrangement. Check with your provincial health care plan.

As for private extended heath care plans, once people hit their 60s this starts to be less and less useful. So we self-insure as I said.

As a general point, French people have enormously high expectations of their health system, and these are mostly met. There's a lot of private-sector involvement, but no one cares because it's still a single-payer government plan and most everything is covered. Some people pay a bit extra for "top-up" coverage, which they call "la mutuelle," like our Blue Cross, in order to get some supplementary benefits for glasses, etc. As I understand it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 02:59:24 PM by HenryDavid »

FrugalAussie

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2023, 05:21:16 AM »
CAMBODIA: I'm currently working at an NGO in Siem Reap, a beautiful small city near Angkor Wat temples. The people are very friendly, the climate is hot (very hot and wet half the year or more) and living cost are reasonable eg. Rent for a nice apartment is $250 - $400 USD/mth. There's a welcoming expat community and lots of travel and volunteer opportunities. Retirement visa is $295 USD/year. I pay about $200/mth for international health insurance and also pay for Khmer language classes which range from free to $9/hr. I'm looking forward to extensive South East Asia travel while I'm here. I like living in Siem Reap very much. I'm happy to answer any questions.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2023, 07:05:48 PM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you!  I checked out your video, it was informative and reinforces that I have way more planning to do! 

I plan to keep my US address, in CA.  I am used to paying taxes so I just need to budget them in BUT moving everything from Vanguard to Schwab is probably the safest move.
I won't be working but will have some passive (rental) income to report and need to figure that out. 

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2023, 08:01:03 PM »
In theory, if you are not formally moving to a country to live permanently there, you can use debit cards to withdraw cash from ATMs to meet your daily money needs.
Living overseas is not for everyone, or even for most people. You have to decide what you want, and what you can give up by not living in the U.S. or whatever is your home country.
As far as I know, most people who choose to retire in another country are: (1) having family ties with that country, one or both were originally from that country, (2) better quality of living for the same amount of money, (3) better weather, (4) and other particular needs.

My desires to expat are to be able to live and experience new cultures/foods/sights without needing a car/being constantly surrounded by huge vanity suv/pickup trucks while trying to move safely in between the huge amount of public infrastructure they eat up.  I.hate.cars for transportation.

Scooters, tuktuks, bikes, trains, buses, ships, Kei sized cars/trucks and walking are all good. 

I hate flying too which is why I want to slow travel. 

Access to quality healthcare is important too.  I make sure to eat healthy (mostly plant based), sleep, exercise etc but a big (US) fear is medical bankruptcy which isn't an issue nearly any where else in the world.   

Are these reasons odd?  Sometimes I'm concerned my expatFIRE reasons don't sound rational.   Most everyone I know (even high earners) will never be able to FIRE and are working for the conventional aspirations- big houses, big cars(always a huge vanity suv/pickup), big vacations. 


I traveled some in my 20's and experienced how in some countries, multiple generations lived simply in a small space that wasn't overflowing with stuff.  But I got home, decided it was time for college/adulting and then worked- house/car/responsibilities/buying stuff etc. 

Now that I can FIRE, I want to live even simpler than I currently do now and am decluttering, minimizing my home so it will be a place that is open with only the belongings I need for now and whenever I return.

ca-rn

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2023, 08:14:10 PM »
We are considering it, though only at an abstract at this point.  I can see us being nomadic, slow-travelers for a year or so (hitting ~10-12 places plus a some for very short stays en-route).  And then settling somewhere and traveling a few times a year.  I would almost certainly want to settle in Europe (or maaaaaaybe South America) which makes visas more complicated (but not impossible) and isn't as cheap as parts of Asia.  I also need to figure out healthcare.  We will have great insurance with DH's military retirement, but I don't think there is international coverage, so thats a huge barrier because it's an expense we haven't been counting on.  We could always return to the US for major medical care if-needed, but that wouldn't cover expensive accidents or smaller things. 

But we've spent so long living overseas for DH's work that I won't consider it while our parents are still around.  Hopefully, they will stick with us for quite a while, so all this is still pretty far out.


I'm FIRE already and am heading overseas (Europe) soon to do a bit of longer term nomadic travel (how long? IDK!) and had thought often about being a full time expat.  I sold my house awhile ago, got rid of most everything I own, single,  no kids or close family here except sister (and long term friends) and have been renting (which I'm giving up) so nothing really holding me back. But I'm unlikely to do it (be a perm. expat) for various reasons, healthcare being one as I can use the VA for very low cost coverage anywhere in the US,  and after some travel I will likely settle back in the US. But you never know! Right now the plan is fly to Europe beginning April (UK as have dual citizenship), go to France and start using a 3 month Eurail Pass around So. Europe and eventually end up in Sweden (family there) in Summer then back to UK to stay awhile in summer. After that...???

You are so amazing- A true nomad!!!  I have a big hangup about selling my home and never being able to "afford" to move back but selling would be absolutely freeing though terrifying.  This is my first home purchase.  But I also have family living on the property too which is the main reason to keep. 

Please post about your travels!

elysianfields

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2023, 04:59:39 AM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you!  I checked out your video, it was informative and reinforces that I have way more planning to do! 

I plan to keep my US address, in CA.  I am used to paying taxes so I just need to budget them in BUT moving everything from Vanguard to Schwab is probably the safest move.
I won't be working but will have some passive (rental) income to report and need to figure that out.

The American Foreign Service Association issues a tax guide every year.  In this year's, under California, we find:

Quote from: Foreign Service Journal, January/February 2023
Foreign Service employees domiciled in California must establish non-residency to avoid liability for California taxes (see Franchise Tax Board Publication 1031). However, a “safe harbor” provision allows anyone who is domiciled in state but is out of the state on an employment-related contract for at least 546 consecutive days to be considered a non-resident.  This applies to most FS employees and their spouses, but members domiciled in California are advised to study FTB Publication 1031 for exceptions and exemptions.

If you're not working, I'm not sure whether the safe harbor applies.  If that's the case, might it make more sense to establish residency in a state without an income tax and use a mail-forwarding service to maintain a US mailing address?  That could also solve your Vanguard / Fidelity issues as well.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 05:40:19 AM by elysianfields »

elysianfields

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2023, 05:09:03 AM »
If you really want to "don't ask, don't tell" your US banks, you should also have a US phone number.  So many use 2 factor authentication, at least occasionally as your anti-virus cleans out your cookies.  If you can't set that to an email address, you will want a US phone number because a) their system may only work with US numbers or b) it could be a clue you aren't residing in the US.  It isn't too expensive to move your US phone to a VOIP provider, or switch to Google Fi for global access.

Google Voice works for this as well (for many/most providers), as noted by @merryt upthread, and is free!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 05:41:40 AM by elysianfields »

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2023, 11:26:37 AM »
Absolutely. Ymmv but Fidelity is no good if you don't maintain a US address. I'm switching everything from mutual funds to ETFs and using Schwab International. FIREing in Thailand on the Elite visa after a year on educational visa. I used to live in Bangkok and my father lives there now.

My little YouTube hobby will have a video covering american expat finances a week from Friday: frugalnotcheap

Basically FATCA made things harder. Don't forget FBAR. Taxes are more complicated if you open up foreign accounts.

Thank you!  I checked out your video, it was informative and reinforces that I have way more planning to do! 

I plan to keep my US address, in CA.  I am used to paying taxes so I just need to budget them in BUT moving everything from Vanguard to Schwab is probably the safest move.
I won't be working but will have some passive (rental) income to report and need to figure that out.
This is the best article I've ever seen on "CA tax residency".  If you have a rental property and address in CA, those ties to CA can be factors in deciding if you pay CA income tax.
https://www.pillsburylaw.com/images/content/1/2/v2/121792/Revisiting-California-Tax-Residency-After-the-TCJA-JMT-Jan.-201.pdf

Have you considered how you'll move money from the U.S. to the country you're visiting / residing?  If you plan on longer stays, you might consider a mega bank like Citi or HSBC.  You can open an account in the US branch before you go, and a local branch when you arrive.  Some banks will not accept American expats owing to auditing and reporting requirements, but the mega banks have teams of lawyers for that.

ROF Expat

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Re: Anyone planning to ExpatFIRE too?
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2023, 12:06:59 PM »
OP,

I'll be a slightly dissenting voice here.  If you're otherwise happy with your Vanguard account, it isn't clear to me that you need to switch just because you're planning to travel.  It sounds to me like you will be slow traveling around the world.  This is not the same as being an expatriate.  If you expatriate yourself, you might gain certain benefits (like the Foreign Earned Income exlusion), but you will also face disadvantages, like not being able to buy mutual funds (and a lot of US brokers not wanting to deal with you). 

If I understand correctly, you currently have no plan to establish residency in another country, you will have to pay California and Federal taxes on your earnings in the US, and you will probably return to the US once or twice a year.  Unless you see some reason you'd need very large amounts of money, I would guess that you should be able to get by with ATMs and credit cards from your US bank. 

What you might want to do is keep your banking with a separate institution from your investments.  In my experience, your bank really doesn't care if you spend much of your time overseas.  Your broker does care.  If you use the same institution for banking and investing, they may well notice that your banking is all taking place overseas and ask you to prove that you are not an expatriate.  If you do  your banking with a separate institution and keep a US address and phone number, your brokerage will never have any reason to even wonder about your status.