Author Topic: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh  (Read 4888 times)

Sailor Sam

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Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« on: June 12, 2023, 08:21:43 AM »
I'm Sam, and I'm currently planning on retiring in March 2027. According to Time&Date.com, that's 3.75 years, and just like parenting toddlers, the days will be long but the years short. I'm starting to realize I truly will need a drawdown strategy, and that I only have a vague plan. I'm seeking input on my sketch, and ideas from improvement.

Current 2023 Assets
Net Worth =         $1.07M
Traditional TSP =   $380,000    @80/20% split
Traditional IRA =   $175,000    @100% stock
Roth TSP =           $0              (just opened this month)  80/20 split
Roth IRA =           $41,000      @100% stock
Brokerage =         $434,000    @100% stock
Cash =                 $38,000

Notes:
- I income'd out of contributing to a Trad IRA in 2017, switching to Roth IRA
- I opened a Roth TSP this month, and will contribute only to Roth TSP 2024-2027
- I'm not contributing to the brokerage, in favor of increasing cash reserves.


Projected 2027 Assets
Net Worth =         $1.61M
Traditional TSP =  $428,000   @80/20 spilt
Traditional IRA =  $199,000   @80/20 split
Roth TSP =          $85,000     @60/40 split
Roth IRA =          $302,000    @60/40 split
Brokerage =        $498,000    @?? split
Cash =                $100,000     


Projected Annual Pension
2023  = $60,000  (covers Apr-Dec 2023)
2024  = $72,000
Projected COLA = 2.5%


Desired Spend
- Baseline = $50,000 in 2023 dollars,  projected inflation = 2.5%
- Special spends = $10,000 to $20,000 per year, some years.

My Plan! (such as it exists)
- Use traditional TSP & IRA as 'long-term' buckets:
  • maintain current 80/20 split
  • leave traditional accounts alone to grow until RMD in 2053
- Use Roth TSP & IRA as 'intermediate' buckets:
  • move to 60/40 split by 2027
  • roll Roth TSP into Roth IRA in 2040, at 60 years old
  • leave Roth IRA to grow until RMD in 2053
- Use Brokerage as 'annual' bucket:
  • set up with ??? split by 2027
  • access annual (unless SORR) for next year's CD

Strategy 2023 - 2026
-  Max out Roth TSP
-  Max out Roth IRA
-  Any further savings to cash, until reserve at $100,000, thence to Brokerage.

Strategy 2027
- Max out Roth TSP (Jan-Mar)
- Max out Roth IRA (Jan-Mar)
- Live on cash savings

Strategy 2028 - 60th birthday
- Use Brokerage to make CD ladder, with $20,000 withdrawn to a CD each year:
  • If pension shortfall: use CD
  • If no pension shortfall: don't use CD, don't access brokerage


Any critiques of my plan, or my intended allocations?  I admin that I'm struggling to come up with a locked in plan, while also wanting a variable annual spend.  The math on the giant spreadsheet indicates my plan is sane, and survivable. However, uncertainty remains. I've appreciate any input y'all are willing to spend the time giving.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 08:15:25 AM by Sailor Sam »

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2023, 09:02:08 AM »
The one thing I had a question about was your allocation decision for traditional vs Roth accounts. I would think those would be reversed or even have all your bonds in traditional and all your stocks in Roth.

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2023, 09:53:19 AM »
With your pension covering basically your entire estimated post-FIRE budget, you don't really need a drawdown strategy -- actual withdrawals from the stash will be so low that you don't need to worry about running out of money ever.  What you might want to put more effort/energy into is a tax minimization strategy, assuming you would prefer to leave more of the large stash you are ultimately going to have to causes that you (rather than Congress) think are worth supporting.

Well played, Captain!

MDM

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2023, 11:56:07 AM »
The one thing I had a question about was your allocation decision for traditional vs Roth accounts. I would think those would be reversed or even have all your bonds in traditional and all your stocks in Roth.
That reversal would be consistent with Tax-efficient fund placement - Bogleheads.


MDM

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2023, 12:07:50 PM »
Notes:
- I income'd out of contributing to a Trad IRA in 2017, switching to Roth IRA
- I opened a Roth TSP this month, and will contribute only to Roth TSP 2024-2027

Annual Pension
2023  = $60,000  (covers Apr-Dec 2023)
2024  = $72,000
Are you receiving a pension now, in addition to the W-2 earnings that support Roth TSP contributions?  If so, what is your current marginal tax rate and is that still low enough to make Roth the odds-on choice now?

Quote
My Plan! (such as it exists)
- Use traditional TSP & IRA as 'long-term' buckets:
  • maintain current 80/20 split
  • leave traditional accounts alone to grow until RMD in 2053

Strategy 2028 - 60th birthday
- Use Brokerage to make CD ladder, with $20,000 withdrawn to a CD each year:
  • If pension shortfall: use CD
  • If no pension shortfall: don't use CD, don't access brokerage
You might want to use years between retirement and turning 63 to do some Roth conversions.  Why 63?  Because that's when IRMAA tiers become a consideration.  See Roth Conversion with Social Security and Medicare IRMAA.

Of course, revisit every year or so as tax laws and your situation evolve.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2023, 12:25:21 PM »
The one thing I had a question about was your allocation decision for traditional vs Roth accounts. I would think those would be reversed or even have all your bonds in traditional and all your stocks in Roth.
That reversal would be consistent with Tax-efficient fund placement - Bogleheads.

I admit I don't have much grounding in stock vs bond splits. I was 100% in various stocks until about a year ago, when I started moving towards more conservative splits.

My logic behind the 80/20 and the 60/40 splits was driven by the traditional advice to be aggressive inside funds that have a long timeline, and less aggressive inside funds that have a shorter timeline. I'm currently planning on letting the 80/20 traditional accounts sit un-accessed until 2050's, and the  Roth accounts sit until (at least) the 2030's.

I'll have to read up on the theory of allocations based on tax efficiency, rather than 'safety.'  I read the Bogglehead article @MDM so helpfully linked, but man, Boggleheads articles always make my eyes glaze over. I might have to find another source.

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2023, 12:26:40 PM »
I'm at the point in life where DH and I are asking similar questions.  Do you have a sense of whether you'll have a significant VA rating.  (As I understand it, that makes part of your pension non-taxed at the federal level.)  And will you live in a state that taxes your pension.  (IDK if CG pensions are treated the same as other services.)

It seems like your pension will cover all or nearly all of your expenses most years, depending on the tax picture. 

Also, we have a very, very low bond allocation because I consider the inflation-adjusted pension to serve much the same purpose as bonds.  You might consider whether that will work for you, especially in the early years when SORR is a concern.  (Though given how low your projected WR is, it may not matter anyway.) 

Sailor Sam

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2023, 12:39:09 PM »
Notes:
- I income'd out of contributing to a Trad IRA in 2017, switching to Roth IRA
- I opened a Roth TSP this month, and will contribute only to Roth TSP 2024-2027

Annual Pension
2023  = $60,000  (covers Apr-Dec 2023)
2024  = $72,000
Are you receiving a pension now, in addition to the W-2 earnings that support Roth TSP contributions?  If so, what is your current marginal tax rate and is that still low enough to make Roth the odds-on choice now?

No I currently am not receiving a pension.

My 2023 earnings are projected to be:
- $118,000 base pay
- $35,000 untaxed benefits

My effective tax rate, when on course to maximize my traditional TSP was:
- 15% of gross pay (base + benefits)
- 18% of base pay (base)

My effective tax rate, once I officially switch to Roth TSP will be, approximately:
- 19% of gross pay (base + benefits)
- 25% of base pay


Quote
My Plan! (such as it exists)
- Use traditional TSP & IRA as 'long-term' buckets:
  • maintain current 80/20 split
  • leave traditional accounts alone to grow until RMD in 2053

Strategy 2028 - 60th birthday
- Use Brokerage to make CD ladder, with $20,000 withdrawn to a CD each year:
  • If pension shortfall: use CD
  • If no pension shortfall: don't use CD, don't access brokerage
You might want to use years between retirement and turning 63 to do some Roth conversions.  Why 63?  Because that's when IRMAA tiers become a consideration.  See Roth Conversion with Social Security and Medicare IRMAA.

Of course, revisit every year or so as tax laws and your situation evolve.

I'm definitely considering roth conversions, once I get into the pipeline of getting my pension, and figuring out how much static head I have in whatever bracket I end up in.

I wasn't aware of IRMMA, I'll have to read up on the rules, and see if they apply to me. I'll be under TRICARE for Life, but there are still gaps in my understanding of the difference between bog standard Medicare, and military retirement TRICARE.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2023, 12:42:09 PM »
I'm at the point in life where DH and I are asking similar questions.  Do you have a sense of whether you'll have a significant VA rating.  (As I understand it, that makes part of your pension non-taxed at the federal level.)  And will you live in a state that taxes your pension.  (IDK if CG pensions are treated the same as other services.)

It seems like your pension will cover all or nearly all of your expenses most years, depending on the tax picture. 

Also, we have a very, very low bond allocation because I consider the inflation-adjusted pension to serve much the same purpose as bonds.  You might consider whether that will work for you, especially in the early years when SORR is a concern.  (Though given how low your projected WR is, it may not matter anyway.)

Yeah, @spartana and you both brought up good points about the VA free monies. I was originally assuming I'd get around a 30% rating, for the knees and the back. I don't anticipate pushing the VA overly hard to maximize benefits, because that sounds life draining and I'm lucky enough that the extra funds are nice-to-have instead of must-have.

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2023, 02:17:00 PM »
I would think that you are set. Based on your spending plan you would barely touch your investments in retirement. Federal taxes on $72,000 for a married couple would be about $5000. Which would leave you with net approx $67,000. If you reach the high end of your spending plan of $70,000 you would only need to take out $3,000 from your brokerage account. You would pay 0% capital gains tax with your projected income.

If you get VA compensation, you would be more than set for life.

ETA: assuming of course if you live in a state with no income tax. But with your added VA compensation, it might cover all your taxes.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 02:19:23 PM by baludon »

MDM

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2023, 03:03:32 PM »
I'll have to read up on the theory of allocations based on tax efficiency, rather than 'safety.'  I read the Bogglehead article @MDM so helpfully linked, but man, Boggleheads articles always make my eyes glaze over. I might have to find another source.
Yes, Bogleheads wiki articles can get overly complicated, and make it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

The general idea is that Roth accounts are often the last you would want to withdraw from, thus putting things that have the best odds of growth into Roth (so they have that much more time to grow) is the odds-on choice.

MDM

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2023, 03:08:09 PM »
Notes:
- I income'd out of contributing to a Trad IRA in 2017, switching to Roth IRA
- I opened a Roth TSP this month, and will contribute only to Roth TSP 2024-2027

Annual Pension
2023  = $60,000  (covers Apr-Dec 2023)
2024  = $72,000
Are you receiving a pension now, in addition to the W-2 earnings that support Roth TSP contributions?  If so, what is your current marginal tax rate and is that still low enough to make Roth the odds-on choice now?

No I currently am not receiving a pension.
Might want to edit the calendar years in the OP then.

Quote
My effective tax rate....
Your effective tax rate, i.e., (total tax)/(total income), is irrelevant when it comes to making finance choices.  What matters is how a choice effects things "at the margin" so it's your marginal rate now vs. your expected marginal rate later that matters.

Quote
I wasn't aware of IRMMA, I'll have to read up on the rules, and see if they apply to me. I'll be under TRICARE for Life, but there are still gaps in my understanding of the difference between bog standard Medicare, and military retirement TRICARE.
That would be nice for you if IRMAA doesn't apply - I don't know.

infromsea

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2023, 04:25:41 PM »
Retired MCPO here.....

This is not a math thing, it's an emotional and mental thing...

Your money sitch is fine. Relax. Don't try to micro it.

I know how hard it is, a few spaces on the path ahead of you.

LMK if you wanna chat, helps to talk to others in mickey mouse club.

secondcor521

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2023, 05:55:17 PM »
Batsignal @Nords.

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2023, 11:15:13 PM »
Drawdown? What drawdown? In an average year you'll spend less than your pension, and if you do owe taxes on most/all of this income that tax expense might cause you to barely exceed your pension in your occasional "special" spending years. The dividends from your taxable account should be more than enough to cover that overage with no need to mess around with a CD ladder (unless you really want to). No "drawing down" of your assets will be at all likely to occur if your spending projections prove accurate. Congrats on winning the game!

Sailor Sam

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2023, 09:14:30 AM »
I'll have to read up on the theory of allocations based on tax efficiency, rather than 'safety.'  I read the Bogglehead article @MDM so helpfully linked, but man, Boggleheads articles always make my eyes glaze over. I might have to find another source.
Yes, Bogleheads wiki articles can get overly complicated, and make it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

The general idea is that Roth accounts are often the last you would want to withdraw from, thus putting things that have the best odds of growth into Roth (so they have that much more time to grow) is the odds-on choice.

Understood, and thanks for the mini education!

Might want to edit the calendar years in the OP then.

Done. I only realized in retrospect that the placement was confusing. More thanks.

My effective tax rate....
Your effective tax rate, i.e., (total tax)/(total income), is irrelevant when it comes to making finance choices.  What matters is how a choice effects things "at the margin" so it's your marginal rate now vs. your expected marginal rate later that matters.

Okay, I'm now tracking. It's pretty obvious I glossed over your link, assuming I knew what you were talking about. Apologies for that, I know that must be frustrating.

My current taxable salary is $118,500, which means:

1. When maximizing my Roth TSP and taking the standard deduction, I'm paying 24% in fed tax on anything above $118,500-13,850-95,376=9,274. Working out to $9,274*0.24 = $2,226 above the initial $16,290, for a total tax burden of $16,290+2,226=$18,476.

2. When maximizing my Trad TSP and taking the standard deduction, I'm paying 22% in fed tax on anything above $118,500-13,850-22,500-44,726=37,424. Working out to $37,424*0.22=$8,233 above the initial $5,147, for a total tax burden of $8,233+5,147=$13,380

3. Meaning I pay $18,476-13,380=$5,096 "extra" in taxes when fully switching from trad to Roth TSP.

I don't currently have the skills to say if the smarter strategy is to pay that "extra" 5k in taxes now and continue to load the Roth TSP, or if I the smart action is to use the Trad TSP and delay paying taxes on that income.

My initial logic was:
- Assuming the IRS doesn't implement a big change, I project being in the 22-ish% tax bracket in my early retirement, with comfortable headroom before I hit the next bracket up. I can use that headroom for Roth conversions, etc.
 
- I project bumping up a bracket once I start drawing SS.

- I project a precipitous increase in tax bracket once I start taking RMD, since my projected income will be above $200k.

I'm aware of the upcoming tax implications, and I am interested in managing it, but I'm obviously in the initial learning steps. I always shooed this kind of research until "later," which as inevitably become "now." I'm grateful for any guidance on how to learn this stuff, especially as boggleheads is often incomprehensible to me.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 10:17:34 AM by Sailor Sam »

Sailor Sam

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2023, 09:19:38 AM »
Retired MCPO here.....

This is not a math thing, it's an emotional and mental thing...

Your money sitch is fine. Relax. Don't try to micro it.

I know how hard it is, a few spaces on the path ahead of you.

LMK if you wanna chat, helps to talk to others in mickey mouse club.

Thanks Master Chief, your post is appreciated.

I haven't done any TAPs classes yet, but I've been talking to a retired O-6 about the emotional parts of getting ready to leave the comfy nest, and I can verify I'm definitely on the glide path. Like most lifers, I love this job and I loath it, and it's going to be a kick in the pants to leave it. Especially because I don't see any opportunity to join the Reserves and once I'm out, I'm out. But I do see myself starting to inhabit a future beyond service, which I think is an important thing.

Nords

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2023, 09:50:37 AM »
Batsignal @Nords.
Thanks @secondcor521!

And Sam, congratulations on your last lap before your finish line! 

You’re on a great track, and now your choices are mostly tinkering at the margins. 

This is a very long post (for other readers as well as for you) so let me know if you have more questions about the details below.

Notes:
- I income'd out of contributing to a Trad IRA in 2017, switching to Roth IRA
- I opened a Roth TSP this month, and will contribute only to Roth TSP 2024-2027
- I'm not contributing to the brokerage, in favor of increasing cash reserves.

Any critiques of my plan, or my intended allocations?  I admin that I'm struggling to come up with a locked in plan, while also wanting a variable annual spend.  The math on the giant spreadsheet indicates my plan is sane, and survivable. However, uncertainty remains. I've appreciate any input y'all are willing to spend the time giving.
I'm definitely considering roth conversions, once I get into the pipeline of getting my pension, and figuring out how much static head I have in whatever bracket I end up in.
I’m not sure what “income’d out of contributing to a Trad IRA” means. 

If it means you were no longer able to take a tax deduction for the contribution, then you were still able  to (and still can) make non-deductible contributions to a traditional IRA.  The mix of tax-deductible (tax-deferred) and non-deductible contributions gets tracked by tax software (and the IRS) and eventually at withdrawals it all gets sorted into its appropriate income-tax brackets.

Ironically, it’s hypothetically possible that today (on active duty) you’re in the lowest (marginal) income-tax bracket you’ll ever see.  Contributing to your Roth TSP (and your Roth IRA) might be the most tax-efficient move today, although you could make different choices after active duty if you start earning other income.

If you’re planning to never earn another dollar in retirement then you might have a few years after active duty (with lower taxable income) for you do do Roth IRA conversions.  But if your contact network (and your curiosity about challenging & fulfilling projects or even paid employment) leads you to the typical post-military bridge career, then you might not get much of your traditional TSP & IRA converted to your Roth IRA before your Required Minimum Distribution age of 72.

If we could all figure out our income-tax brackets for every year between now, RMDs, and death then we’d all know whether to contribute to traditional or Roth accounts now.  We’d also do all of the conversions in between military retirement and age 63. 

The reality is that (each year before & after retiring from active duty) you’re going to make the comparison between your latest marginal income-tax bracket and your projected RMD income-tax bracket (including Social Security deposits).  You’ll also look at whether those RMDs (in your 70s) will push you up into IRMAA territory.

(Civilian health insurance premiums from the Affordable Care Act exchanges also come into consideration for Roth IRA conversions because their premiums are subsidized at various income levels.  Since you’re on Tricare Prime or Tricare Select after retirement-- and on Tricare For Life when you start Medicare-- then you can ignore discussions about ACA subsidies, Health Savings Accounts, and high-deductible health plans.)

The simple, easy answer on RMD taxes is that it might make sense (in 2023-2027) to keep contributing to your Roth IRA & Roth TSP.  Then during retirement you can use a Roth IRA conversion calculator (each year) to decide whether you want to do a partial Roth IRA conversion (and how much).  If you minimize your taxable income during military retirement then maybe you could’ve spent your final years of active duty stuffing more into your traditional accounts and doing more Roth IRA conversions in retirement, but the tax difference over the next few years is more margin-tinkering. 

I admit I don't have much grounding in stock vs bond splits. I was 100% in various stocks until about a year ago, when I started moving towards more conservative splits.

My logic behind the 80/20 and the 60/40 splits was driven by the traditional advice to be aggressive inside funds that have a long timeline, and less aggressive inside funds that have a shorter timeline. I'm currently planning on letting the 80/20 traditional accounts sit un-accessed until 2050's, and the  Roth accounts sit until (at least) the 2030's.
Also, we have a very, very low bond allocation because I consider the inflation-adjusted pension to serve much the same purpose as bonds.  You might consider whether that will work for you, especially in the early years when SORR is a concern.  (Though given how low your projected WR is, it may not matter anyway.)
When you’re on active duty, you never know when you’ll want an asset allocation that supports leaving active duty. 80/20 (or even 60/40) is great for reducing the volatility of your investments and sleeping better-- especially if you’re in the middle of a transition and still searching for a post-military bridge career.

But an inflation-adjusted military pension is the equivalent of bond income from a huge bucket of I bonds or TIPS.  (This analogy is flawed because bonds have maturity dates, but the analogy is good enough for discussing asset allocations.)  When you have a military pension, then mathematically you can invest the rest of your assets in equities or real estate.  You never have to care about bonds again, unless you want more sleep-at-night comfort from lower volatility.  Your short-term assets can be in cash, and you might only need a year or two of expenses in cash. 

Your military pension’s cost-of-living adjustment also makes you relatively immune to sequence-of-returns risk.  You could invest in CD ladders (perhaps two years of expenses) for your discretionary spending if it makes you feel more comfortable, but most financially-independent people are only vulnerable to SORR during the first decade after FI.  By the end of that decade with the 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate your spending has risen with inflation, yet your pension has also risen with inflation.  More significantly, your investments (with a high-equity asset allocation) will grow faster than inflation.  At the end of that decade, your withdrawal for your 11th year of spending might be around 3.5% of your latest net worth.  Your lower withdrawal rate means that even Karsten Jeske of EarlyRetirementNow would grudgingly agree that your assets will survive for 50-60 years.

Don't forget to add any non-taxable VA benefits you'll likely qualify for. Otherwise you're set for life but taxes - yeah gotta reduce those. Isn't some of your Gov pension tax free?
Do you have a sense of whether you'll have a significant VA rating.  (As I understand it, that makes part of your pension non-taxed at the federal level.)  And will you live in a state that taxes your pension.  (IDK if CG pensions are treated the same as other services.)
Yeah, @spartana and you both brought up good points about the VA free monies. I was originally assuming I'd get around a 30% rating, for the knees and the back. I don't anticipate pushing the VA overly hard to maximize benefits, because that sounds life draining and I'm lucky enough that the extra funds are nice-to-have instead of must-have.
VA disability compensation is tax-exempt federally, state, and locally.  It never even shows up on a tax form.

You’ll be surprised how high your VA disability rating could be.  You’ve already paid the price for it, and now the military is just trying to lighten your tax burden.  At even higher levels you’re getting more lifestyle-adjustment benefits like job retraining, hiring preferences in the civil service, lower state property taxes, and even clothing allowances.

You do not want to get competitive about having a high VA disability rating.  Nobody wants to be a member of that club.  However you’ve already paid the price, and VA disability compensation is an inadequate amount for that sacrifice.

Let me ease your concerns on the life-draining aspect and the nice-to-have issue.

Military healthcare is about making you fit to fight, or at least keeping you on active duty.  (It’s more about the military than about us.)  We’re all very good at minimizing (or even hiding) the symptoms in order to avoid adverse career impacts like losing sea pay or even getting beached.  In extreme cases, if the pain can be managed then you’re back to full-duty status.

VA disability ratings are based on compensating you for your impaired ability to support yourself after the military.  It’s no longer about how much pain you can endure in your knees or back, but rather when the pain starts.  (And frankly, maybe it never stops hurting.)  When you do the Compensation & Pension exam, and the doc is measuring your range of motion, they not only care about how big a ROM you have-- but also when the pain starts in that ROM and how severe it is.

It’s also not about nice-to-have.  (The VA does not limit compensation by their available funding-- they simply tell Congress that they need more money for your higher disability rating.)  You want to get this claim done now, while all the memories and details are in your mind (and in all of your official records).  You want to get all of your symptoms in your baseline (your initial claim) because 10-20 years from now-- even with great cardio health and strength-- you’re gonna see some higher pain levels and even osteoarthritis.  If spinal stenosis rears its ugly head you may even be facing surgery. 

You minimize the life-draining part by using a Veteran Service Officer.  They’re free to us (they’re paid by the VA or other funds.)  Most servicemembers contact one from their local VA clinic or their local chapter of the American Legion, DAV, VFW, or even MOAA.  (You don’t have to be members of these organizations-- you just check their website or call your local chapter to get a VSO’s contact info.)  The VSOs are highly skilled at going through records to spot issues, and they know how to use the applicable medical vocabulary as well as document the issues.

Let me be clear:  it’s not gaming the system or Tough Guy Syndrome.  It’s about documenting everything now (with the VSO’s experienced help) and then using the Disability Benefits Questionnaires to communicate with doctors in their vocabulary to enable them to complete their assessments with the criteria that’s needed by some anonymous rater at the VA who actually assigns the numbers.  Most of the VSOs are very good and they will support you.  Most of the docs are all right, but it’s essential to use their vocabulary so that they don’t draw the wrong conclusions.

Ironically, the people who are most in need of the VA’s compensation and support... tend to be the people who are least able to navigate the bureaucracy.  Use the VSO now to avoid more bureaucracy later.

More importantly, in 10-20 years when the VA documents a new presumptive condition from the things you’ve been exposed to, you’ll already have everything in your record and you won’t have to go through another round of life-draining effort to update your rating.

Anecdotally, when the word “back” or “spine” pops up along with knees, you’re possibly looking at a VA disability rating of 50% or higher. 

At a rating of 40% or below your pension is offset by the VA disability compensation.  (Your DFAS Form 1099-R is smaller and you pay lower income taxes.)  At a rating of 50% or higher you’re eligible for Concurrent Retirement and Disability Pay.  Instead of replacing a little of your taxable pension with the same amount of tax-exempt VA disability compensation, CRDP means that you’ll now get to keep your entire pension as well as the additional VA disability compensation.

I wasn't aware of IRMMA, I'll have to read up on the rules, and see if they apply to me. I'll be under TRICARE for Life, but there are still gaps in my understanding of the difference between bog standard Medicare, and military retirement TRICARE.
I wouldn’t worry about researching IRMAA until you’ve actually retired and you’re doing your comparisons on Roth IRA conversions versus RMDs.  IRMAA is more tinkering at the margins. 

After military retirement and before Medicare, you’re getting the world’s cheapest health insurance from Tricare Prime or Select.  Your retiree ID is coded to expire at age 65 so that you’re forced to get a new ID then.  At that point you show the ID-card facility your Medicare card and they update your DEERS record to Tricare For Life.  Tricare’s regional manager eventually updates your status in their system.

TFL is Medicare supplemental insurance, which means that Medicare covers 80% of the bills and TFL covers the remaining 20%.  TFL also includes some prescription co-pays, so you don’t need Medicare’s prescription insurance.

When you start Medicare (typically age 65), the Medicare staff uses your two-year-old income-tax returns (as early as age 63) looking for high income (or big spikes of income) from cashing out of real estate, large dividend/interest income, large capital gains distributions, or Roth IRA conversions.  You might pay higher Medicare premiums for the following year, and then next year the comparison starts all over again to see if you’ll still pay the higher premium for another year.

Aside from Roth IRA conversions (minimizing RMDs) and managing your income spikes, your only other control over IRMAA is delaying your Social Security deposits until age 70.

MDM

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2023, 01:13:28 PM »
I'm aware of the upcoming tax implications, and I am interested in managing it, but I'm obviously in the initial learning steps. I always shooed this kind of research until "later," which as inevitably become "now." I'm grateful for any guidance on how to learn this stuff, especially as boggleheads is often incomprehensible to me.
As Nords said, you have all the big parts in place and the tax issues (e.g., Roth vs. traditional; IRMAA; etc.) will be secondary. 

When it appeared (due to the "2023" and "2024" years under "Annual Pension") that you would be getting both W-2 and pension income, using traditional now was plausible.  But if your marginal rates now and after retirement will be the same (or even higher in retirement) then all Roth now is good.

If you are a "visual learner", creating something like this chart for your own situation (both current and projected future) might be useful.  I think the case study spreadsheet was used to generate the curves, and the poster added the labels.

And you do have plenty of time!


BicycleB

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2023, 07:08:15 PM »
Just here to say that tax minimization is relevant if you want to spend large sums on your future self, slightly less so if your spending projections prove accurate and you decide to donate excess income to charity. I imagine that large charitable donations will solve any remaining tax problems.

Kudos on getting the basics right already, and thanks for your service.

PS. I do have a secret vision of you buying a boat and training people on it. Not sure if personally buying a boat is a logical option when your skills and personality seem like you'd be able to receive or hustle up enough boats without spending a penny, but such are the mysterious ways of visions. Even visions that involve the confusing possibility of large unexpected withdrawals from retirements accounts.

Keep us posted on retirement adventures. :)

Rural

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2023, 03:32:15 PM »
Seconding everything Nords said about the VA. They broke some parts that belong to you. Let them make up for it a little bit. Don't wait 30 years; the bureaucracy is much harder then (I know because Husband just got his rating a couple weeks ago).

Car Jack

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Re: Case Study - The Drawdown Draws Nigh
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2023, 09:25:16 AM »

I wouldn’t worry about researching IRMAA until you’ve actually retired and you’re doing your comparisons on Roth IRA conversions versus RMDs.  IRMAA is more tinkering at the margins. 


I'd like to correct this a bit.  Maybe just describe the focus.  I retired 2 weeks ago.  I'm already 66 1/2, so as Medicare starts, they're looking at my income from 2 years ago which was something like $255k.  THIS is where IRMMA bites you.  Medicare part B is $164 a month.  At over $194k of income, that's upped by $64 a month.  At over $250k, it's upped by $164 a month.  The drug plan also gets increased with income.  You CAN put in for a redetermination of income if you have a good, solid reason.  Mine was that I stopped working this year 1/2 way through the year.  They'll be charging me about double until they approve (I hope) my appeal.

Going forward, look at RMDs.  These are even more killer than dividends and equal to interest from an owing tax perspective.  Roth conversions now get rid of the tIRA RMD numbers which can be huge.  Why do you care?  Depending on what ends up in your tIRA type accounts (includes 401k and the like), you must remove the RMD or get a penalty of 1/2 of what you were supposed to remove and then you still get taxed on 100% of what should have been removed.  First year RMD is approximately the amount you have in all those accounts divided by about 26.  That's added as ordinary income for taxes.

So I did careful analysis of this year's income at the job, RMDs, ESPPs, and tradeline sale income and subtracted that from $194k (max before IRMMA for married filing jointly) and that amount is my Roth conversion amount.  You're in way better shape because you don't have that much in those types of accounts so you could literally divide what's there by the number of years till RMD and do that much a year in conversions, of course subtracting any income.  In my case, most of my savings is in these traditional IRAs so I can't really avoid IRMMA without staying lower in conversions.  I did $50k conversion today and for following years, it'll be more like $150k a year or a bit more.  But I'm older, so will be bitten by RMDs later.  It's not about tax bracket for me, it's about IRMMA and nothing else. 

So my point is to not ignore this.  Getting the Roth conversions done now will make things far cheaper in the future.  Medicare is NOT cheap regardless.  DW is below 65 and doing Cobra as it's cheaper than ACA for her.  Between the 2 of us, our health care premiums are 5 times what they were with my work's group plan. 

You might want to start a spread sheet.  It's what I did.