Author Topic: The Election Results Thread  (Read 66097 times)

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #200 on: November 09, 2016, 08:29:01 AM »
Someone needs to take Comey behind the woodshed for this crap.
No, someone needs to take Hillary and her staff behind the wood shed for not taking care of their own emails and what should have been private data.  Yeah, let's blame the FBI for her and her staffs mistakes.  Or maybe we can blame the lady who Hillary had print her documents for her, you know, the classified ones that no one was supposed to see.

It's her own damn fault, reap what you sow.
What egregious emails were those? What laws were broken? I wish someone could break that down for me. Seriously, please do. The reality is, there is nothing there. I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but please respond with something substantive instead of "she's corrupt. She's a liar."

dividendman

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #201 on: November 09, 2016, 08:29:44 AM »
Well, Bernie-hating DNC shills, I hope you're fucking happy!

If the Democrats had done literally anything other than trying to single-mindedly shove Hillary down our throats, the election would have been a landslide in their favor.

It is useful to note that Hillary outperformed Obama (and likely Bernie too) in several states - just not enough to actually win them. Look at Texas, Arizona, Georgia, etc. We may see a shifting of the map where the industrial northeast.

You have exactly zero evidence to support that claim. I know for a fact that Bernie would have gotten at least one vote in Georgia -- mine -- that Hillary did not get.1

(1 FYI to the dumbass false dichotomy trolls: Trump didn't get it either.)

My only evidence is that Clinton won the primaries of all of these states (some by very large margins) and, as I mentioned, made them more competitive than Obama.

dividendman

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #202 on: November 09, 2016, 08:31:19 AM »
What egregious emails were those? What laws were broken? I wish someone could break that down for me. Seriously, please do. The reality is, there is nothing there. I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but please respond with something substantive instead of "she's corrupt. She's a liar."

I think we need to get off of the emails now. I think Trump will never mention them or jailing Clinton again. Trump has a track record of viciously attacking his opponents and then basically ignoring (or praising) them after he wins.

I also think the Republicans are going to spend time passing legislation rather than investigating a failed candidate.

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #203 on: November 09, 2016, 08:38:25 AM »
@sol, I assume the two wars you're referring to are Iraq and Afghanistan.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I remember it, it was a bunch of Afghans that started it, what with the planes crashing into office towers and all that.
I or rather, Wikipedia will correct you:
Quote
The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
All we got from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was dead people, debt, increased terror and the legal quagmire of Guantanamo.

Probably the reason this election went the way it did: Although we have the marvelous internet at our fingertips and Google searches can bring an instant answer for those who can sift through less reliable sources in literal seconds, our electorate is too God damn lazy to do that and also will not do that because it might challenge beliefs, not fact. If they do end up reading it along the way, they'll ignore data by saying a source is biased or corrupt.

Jack

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #204 on: November 09, 2016, 08:41:31 AM »
Well, Bernie-hating DNC shills, I hope you're fucking happy!

If the Democrats had done literally anything other than trying to single-mindedly shove Hillary down our throats, the election would have been a landslide in their favor.

It is useful to note that Hillary outperformed Obama (and likely Bernie too) in several states - just not enough to actually win them. Look at Texas, Arizona, Georgia, etc. We may see a shifting of the map where the industrial northeast.

You have exactly zero evidence to support that claim. I know for a fact that Bernie would have gotten at least one vote in Georgia -- mine -- that Hillary did not get.1

(1 FYI to the dumbass false dichotomy trolls: Trump didn't get it either.)

My only evidence is that Clinton won the primaries of all of these states (some by very large margins) and, as I mentioned, made them more competitive than Obama.

I've got a newsflash for you: primaries are bullshit and utterly useless as measures of the sentiment of an entire populace. They only measure the people who pick that primary to vote in.

The voters who would have provided Bernie's margin of victory in the general election were busy either sitting out the primary or voting in the Republican one.

This is especially true for people in places like Cobb and Gwinnett (Atlanta suburbs that are increasingly diverse but still controlled by the Republicans): they were forced to pick Republican ballots because of the down-ballot races that would have no credible Democratic opposition and thus be decided by the primary, so their latent preference for Bernie was not possible to measure. (This is yet another reason why political parties are evil -- by all rights, everyone should be allowed to vote in both primaries!)

onlykelsey

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #205 on: November 09, 2016, 08:41:50 AM »
What egregious emails were those? What laws were broken? I wish someone could break that down for me. Seriously, please do. The reality is, there is nothing there. I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but please respond with something substantive instead of "she's corrupt. She's a liar."

I think we need to get off of the emails now. I think Trump will never mention them or jailing Clinton again. Trump has a track record of viciously attacking his opponents and then basically ignoring (or praising) them after he wins.

I also think the Republicans are going to spend time passing legislation rather than investigating a failed candidate.

I agree that I don't think Trump actually cares about the emails or will bring them up again.  But I really don't know who is going to run his cabinet and inner circle, and there are some people who are definitely out for blood on emails. 

I'm still thinking this all through, but I'm not sure what policies Trump will actually push now that he is in charge.  I don't think the TPP was going through either way.  I guess he could try to reform the tax code but that seems beyond our gridlocked Congress' capabilities right now.  I don't think he actually cares much about immigration, either, but we'll see how protectionist/populist the Senate ends up being. 

I guess I keep coming back to being more afraid of things he does accidentally than concerted policy efforts.

oldtoyota

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #206 on: November 09, 2016, 08:43:49 AM »
So it's called for Trump. What an upset. A horrible campaign till the end, but a well executed one. Will the Democrats/media/"intellectuals" ever stop underestimating the "dumbass" Republican candidate?

Probably never. But it's not just Democrats. Romney underestimated Obama, too.

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #207 on: November 09, 2016, 08:45:47 AM »
What egregious emails were those? What laws were broken? I wish someone could break that down for me. Seriously, please do. The reality is, there is nothing there. I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but please respond with something substantive instead of "she's corrupt. She's a liar."

I think we need to get off of the emails now. I think Trump will never mention them or jailing Clinton again. Trump has a track record of viciously attacking his opponents and then basically ignoring (or praising) them after he wins.

I also think the Republicans are going to spend time passing legislation rather than investigating a failed candidate.

You're right we should get off the emails. The problem I have is just the soundbite stupidity of it all. Doesn't matter if it's emails, or as a poster mentioned the "Clinton Cartel." People will mention her emails without even knowing what the fuck they are talking about. If you've got a real beef with something, then have something to back it up. Yes, the Clintons may have used their position and authority to prosper. So what's different from Trump?

deadlymonkey

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #208 on: November 09, 2016, 08:45:59 AM »
What egregious emails were those? What laws were broken? I wish someone could break that down for me. Seriously, please do. The reality is, there is nothing there. I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but please respond with something substantive instead of "she's corrupt. She's a liar."

I think we need to get off of the emails now. I think Trump will never mention them or jailing Clinton again. Trump has a track record of viciously attacking his opponents and then basically ignoring (or praising) them after he wins.

I also think the Republicans are going to spend time passing legislation rather than investigating a failed candidate.

I agree that I don't think Trump actually cares about the emails or will bring them up again.  But I really don't know who is going to run his cabinet and inner circle, and there are some people who are definitely out for blood on emails. 

I'm still thinking this all through, but I'm not sure what policies Trump will actually push now that he is in charge.  I don't think the TPP was going through either way.  I guess he could try to reform the tax code but that seems beyond our gridlocked Congress' capabilities right now.  I don't think he actually cares much about immigration, either, but we'll see how protectionist/populist the Senate ends up being. 

I guess I keep coming back to being more afraid of things he does accidentally than concerted policy efforts.

He ha a republican house and senate and within the first 100 days probably a republican supreme court.  He can just rubberstamp everything the republicans want and there is very little the democrats can do about it.

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #209 on: November 09, 2016, 08:47:32 AM »
Two other points:

Clinton wont the popular vote= The Electoral College is hot garbage.

What happened to this "rigged" election? That's what I though.

onlykelsey

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #210 on: November 09, 2016, 08:50:23 AM »

He ha a republican house and senate and within the first 100 days probably a republican supreme court.  He can just rubberstamp everything the republicans want and there is very little the democrats can do about it.

I get that, but we've had both republican and democratic majorities over the last decade that haven't even been able to get a budget together in time.  I'm not sure the Republicans are a cohesive force ready to draft new legislation.  They'll probably try to repeal ObamaCare again, but it seems like a lot of their goals the last 8 years have been phrased in the negative.  What will they do now?  It seems like the GOP is so divided on Trump, and has a sort of populist mandate but no real leaders of conservative populism outside of Trump, who doesn't seem to have real policy goals.  I guess either the social conservatives or maybe the more traditional conservatives could coalesce and get things done...

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #211 on: November 09, 2016, 08:55:02 AM »
I get that, but we've had both republican and democratic majorities over the last decade that haven't even been able to get a budget together in time.  I'm not sure the Republicans are a cohesive force ready to draft new legislation. 
I agree with this. Trump will have to form coalitions with a few old school Republicans (conservative but not wacko), Democrats (who are like herding cats) and Tea Party Republicans (wackos).

eljefe-speaks

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #212 on: November 09, 2016, 09:05:47 AM »
On the plus side, I'm really motivated now to try to be a really good person and make the world a better place. It looks like these sentiments are echoed by some in this thread which I find encouraging.

TOTALLY agree. My city has a really good volunteer program for assisting newly-arrived refugees. I am going to contact them. This, of course, assumes refugees can stay in the country.

My takeaway is to stay the eff away from heavily biased news sources from now on. I honestly did not know I was in an echo chamber. Their polls, opinion pieces were just wildly off-base.

Election is over, Trump, time to govern.

Jack

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #213 on: November 09, 2016, 09:11:13 AM »
Clinton wont the popular vote= The Electoral College is hot garbage.

Or maybe the popular vote is hot garbage.

If the Electoral Collage were working as it had been originally designed, Trump would never have had a chance in the first place. Hillary Clinton would be the President-elect and Jeb Bush would be the Vice-President-elect (or maybe vice-versa).

Metric Mouse

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #214 on: November 09, 2016, 09:21:33 AM »
Two other points:

Clinton wont the popular vote= The Electoral College is hot garbage.

What happened to this "rigged" election? That's what I though.

And I was wrong. I did see this election breaking exactly the opposite of how it did in regards to the popular vote.  My bad everyone...

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #215 on: November 09, 2016, 09:21:52 AM »
Clinton wont the popular vote= The Electoral College is hot garbage.

Or maybe the popular vote is hot garbage.

If the Electoral Collage were working as it had been originally designed, Trump would never have had a chance in the first place. Hillary Clinton would be the President-elect and Jeb Bush would be the Vice-President-elect (or maybe vice-versa).
I've been reading over at FairVote.org. Their plan makes sense, but what are the cons?
http://www.fairvote.org/national_popular_vote#what_is_the_national_popular_vote_plan

deadlymonkey

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #216 on: November 09, 2016, 09:25:47 AM »
serious question.  Is there a way to determine the trading activity of someone in a reasonable time scale.  Since Trump will not place his assets in a blind trust, and his kids are going to run the businesses, I would imagine that observing the trading activity of the kids would give strong early indicators of what the market might do in response to policy positions not yet public.

Insider trading on them, keen observation for us.

deadlymonkey

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #217 on: November 09, 2016, 09:28:24 AM »
Clinton wont the popular vote= The Electoral College is hot garbage.

Or maybe the popular vote is hot garbage.

If the Electoral Collage were working as it had been originally designed, Trump would never have had a chance in the first place. Hillary Clinton would be the President-elect and Jeb Bush would be the Vice-President-elect (or maybe vice-versa).
I've been reading over at FairVote.org. Their plan makes sense, but what are the cons?
http://www.fairvote.org/national_popular_vote#what_is_the_national_popular_vote_plan

The con is that it doesn't solve the electoral college problem.  Instead of focusing attention on just a few swing states, all the focus would be on a few very high population states.  Those states are overwhelmingly blue states which is why they signed on to it.  Flyover red country will never sign on because it will dilute their influence.

TexasRunner

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #218 on: November 09, 2016, 09:30:16 AM »
On the plus side, I'm really motivated now to try to be a really good person and make the world a better place. It looks like these sentiments are echoed by some in this thread which I find encouraging.

TOTALLY agree. My city has a really good volunteer program for assisting newly-arrived refugees. I am going to contact them. This, of course, assumes refugees can stay in the country.

My takeaway is to stay the eff away from heavily biased news sources from now on. I honestly did not know I was in an echo chamber. Their polls, opinion pieces were just wildly off-base.

Election is over, Trump, time to govern.

Exactly what news sources are you considering?  There is literally NO ONE in the middle, IMO not even close to it.

It doesn't surprise me that the polls and media were caught viciously off guard considering the stigma they attached to Trump early on (rather than seeing what he was doing).

This may interest some, posted on September 9th of this year:  http://blog.dilbert.com/post/150170746191/measuring-the-shy-trump-supporters

as well as this one posted on May 30th about how Trump could (and is) bringing the right to a more left position on several fronts:  http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145160928141/climate-change-and-trump

tldr:  Stock getting so worked up, the world won't end over the president and he is likely more liberal than most admit.

mm1970

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #219 on: November 09, 2016, 09:33:10 AM »
If this is what America wants, then this is what it deserves.

The last time we elected a Republican we got two foreign wars and a ruined global economy.  Think Trump can top that?
Don't tempt  him!

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #220 on: November 09, 2016, 09:36:49 AM »
serious question.  Is there a way to determine the trading activity of someone in a reasonable time scale.  Since Trump will not place his assets in a blind trust, and his kids are going to run the businesses, I would imagine that observing the trading activity of the kids would give strong early indicators of what the market might do in response to policy positions not yet public.
I don't know the answer to your question, and I heard about them not entering the blind trust. Only more evidence that I've entered Bizarro World

mm1970

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #221 on: November 09, 2016, 09:39:26 AM »

The last time we elected a Republican we got two foreign wars and a ruined global economy.  Think Trump can top that?

So we elected a Republican president and you are saying a Democrat is any different?  Answer the question.

So you are fine with droning Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.  I guess you are right.  There is no difference between what Trump might do compared to Obama.  You are showing your ignorance.

Does anybody know how much droning costs?  I'm curious.

I ask because I'm currently reading Hot, Flat, and Crowded by Thomas L. Friedman. (from 2008).  The section I read last night said that they did some research when they were in Iraq.  They had a lot of small distributed bases.

On one base, they found they were trucking in 10,000 gallons of diesel a day.  9000 gallons of that was to run generators, and 95% of that was to air condition the tents.  (needed because of people, equipment, and 121F temperatures).

One base, $171,000 in diesel a day.  How many bases were there?  (They then started researching ways to increase the efficiencies of the AC by insulating the tents, and also looked into using solar panels, etc.)

FIPurpose

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #222 on: November 09, 2016, 09:40:56 AM »
Well I'm as surprised as everyone else in the world. Honestly the popular/electoral vote inversion is always a surprising outcome, and even then, as far as this election goes, it is one of the closest popular votes in our history (<0.15%). When the election runs that close it usually seems to be a coin flip on how votes distribute across states.

Who are the losers? Well I think it's terrible that a person with terrible PR and no international respect (well at least from countries that we historically like?) was elected. But honestly, I imagine that the real losers are the suckers that Trump convinced to vote for him. I doubt he'll be appealing to them too much longer. Now that he has the power, he'll be running things as he sees fit. Evangelicals will once again not gain anything that they were promised, and hang onto the next race for that ever extending carrot of pro-life promises. Moderate GOP members of House and Senate will be making the calls, and they're going to pass moderate legislation that can actually move through a tight Senate.

The justice replaced is going to replace Scalia. Scalia's vote was obvious every time. No major court decisions will change.

People that thought they were blowing up the system will be disappointed to find that Trump is part of it. They'll see him working with Dems and GOP to rubber stamp things to make himself feel like he's doing something, and do nothing that his supporters actually want.

mm1970

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #223 on: November 09, 2016, 09:42:10 AM »
Just watched his acceptance speech.  Time to invest in wall building companies.  Good night all.

Silver lining is my husband's job, while not building walls, involves a fair bit of working on contracts for Homeland Security.

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #224 on: November 09, 2016, 09:44:43 AM »

The last time we elected a Republican we got two foreign wars and a ruined global economy.  Think Trump can top that?

So we elected a Republican president and you are saying a Democrat is any different?  Answer the question.

So you are fine with droning Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.  I guess you are right.  There is no difference between what Trump might do compared to Obama.  You are showing your ignorance.

Does anybody know how much droning costs?  I'm curious.

I ask because I'm currently reading Hot, Flat, and Crowded by Thomas L. Friedman. (from 2008).  The section I read last night said that they did some research when they were in Iraq.  They had a lot of small distributed bases.

On one base, they found they were trucking in 10,000 gallons of diesel a day.  9000 gallons of that was to run generators, and 95% of that was to air condition the tents.  (needed because of people, equipment, and 121F temperatures).

One base, $171,000 in diesel a day.  How many bases were there?  (They then started researching ways to increase the efficiencies of the AC by insulating the tents, and also looked into using solar panels, etc.)

I think this is why we should audit the Department of Defence.

I wonder how many Democrats are thinking today "should have gone with Sanders..."

mm1970

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #225 on: November 09, 2016, 09:45:51 AM »
So classic!  Went there and done that.  Can't blame anyone for not answering what they don't believe in because at this point they don't know any better.  If anyone believe's Trump is any different than Hillary then I feel sorry for you.
Seriously? You don't see any political differences on issues between a Democrat and Republican? I think there is the possibility of a lot of changes in the future to everything from the ACA, abortion, environmental issues, taxes, gun control, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,  immigration, women, gays and transgender people in the military, gay marriage, foreign trade policy, veterans issues, funding for a variety of social issues, etc... Probably more I can't think of at the moment.

I agree.  I voted for Hillary.  I agree with her on most issues.  I voted for her in 2008.  I MUCH preferred her to Bernie.  I like Bernie, but he's a little too far to the left for me.

Now, Bernie vs. Trump, I'd vote Bernie.

But I have many many a Republican friend or relative to crossed the aisle to vote for Hillary who most certainly would have not voted for Bernie. 

If the Bernie voters crossed to Trump?  Well, you reap what you sow man.

(And I do sort of agree with whomever said they aren't *that* much different.  Certainly, it's hard to pin down Trump because what he SAYS is all over the map.  But if you dig in to what he said earlier on, before he started saying ANYTHING to get elected...they were  both pretty moderate.)

Chris22

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #226 on: November 09, 2016, 09:46:21 AM »
Who are the losers? Well I think it's terrible that a person with terrible PR and no international respect (well at least from countries that we historically like?) was elected. But honestly, I imagine that the real losers are the suckers that Trump convinced to vote for him. I doubt he'll be appealing to them too much longer. Now that he has the power, he'll be running things as he sees fit. Evangelicals will once again not gain anything that they were promised, and hang onto the next race for that ever extending carrot of pro-life promises. Moderate GOP members of House and Senate will be making the calls, and they're going to pass moderate legislation that can actually move through a tight Senate.

As a relative social liberal/fiscal conservative, if Trump can drag the GOP kicking and screaming from some of its dumber/more divisive policies (LGBT issues, abortion, etc) that would be fantastic. 


Frankly, I think Trump will be ultimately ineffective at doing much of anything, and will spend the next 4 years tilting at windmills and basically just running around like an idiot, and that's just fine with me.  I don't have any problems that I expect the government to solve, so if those idiots can distract each other with nothingness while the rest of us adults are at work, so much the better.

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #227 on: November 09, 2016, 09:51:45 AM »
Props to the now absent Moonshadow, and a handful of others who called this race correctly. They said that this time, the polls really were wrong. They were correct.

I am on record (somewhere in one of these threads back during the end of the GOP primaries) as saying I was afraid of Trump because I thought he was the only GOP candidate with a decent shot at yanking the rust belt/Great Lake states away from the Dems, but I thought Clinton would still squeak out a win because of her ground game. I'm extremely disappointed, if not shocked, to be wrong.


accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #228 on: November 09, 2016, 09:54:06 AM »
As a relative social liberal/fiscal conservative, if Trump can drag the GOP kicking and screaming from some of its dumber/more divisive policies (LGBT issues, abortion, etc) that would be fantastic. 

I don't see it happening and agree with your second thought. I think the Trump supporters mainly hated Obama. Pence said it at the speech: "The American people have spoken" The election results are obviously a mandate to screw over everything they don't like.

Northwestie

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #229 on: November 09, 2016, 09:59:22 AM »
On the plus side, I'm really motivated now to try to be a really good person and make the world a better place. It looks like these sentiments are echoed by some in this thread which I find encouraging.

TOTALLY agree. My city has a really good volunteer program for assisting newly-arrived refugees. I am going to contact them. This, of course, assumes refugees can stay in the country.

My takeaway is to stay the eff away from heavily biased news sources from now on. I honestly did not know I was in an echo chamber. Their polls, opinion pieces were just wildly off-base.

Election is over, Trump, time to govern.

Holy cow.  Yep - I was dead wrong on this one.  I didn't forsee this dumpster fire.  Who knew the uneducated, angry, white guy was going to peg the meter on the rural vote.  You have to admit he ran the table - Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania for crying out loud!

Ok folks, you want him, you got him:  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+trump+mocking+disabled+reporter&view=detail&mid=E1B8917DF9FB9BB7C30AE1B8917DF9FB9BB7C30A&FORM=VIRE


Chris22

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #230 on: November 09, 2016, 10:00:18 AM »
As a relative social liberal/fiscal conservative, if Trump can drag the GOP kicking and screaming from some of its dumber/more divisive policies (LGBT issues, abortion, etc) that would be fantastic. 

I don't see it happening

Me neither, that was a response to FIPurpose, wishful thinking but I don't see it happening.  Frankly, I don't think he'll do anything on those issues.

Quote
and agree with your second thought. I think the Trump supporters mainly hated Obama Hillary. Pence said it at the speech: "The American people have spoken" The election results are obviously a mandate to screw over everything they don't like.

Fixed, I've said all along, I think people on the left sincerely underestimate how unlikable the right and much of the middle finds Hillary.  Frankly, had almost any other candidate been in the race, on either side, that candidate would've won in a landslide.

SunshineAZ

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #231 on: November 09, 2016, 10:04:13 AM »
Sharing because it made me LOL

frugalnacho

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #232 on: November 09, 2016, 10:05:25 AM »
Fixed, I've said all along, I think people on the left sincerely underestimate how unlikable the right and much of the middle finds Hillary.  Frankly, had almost any other candidate been in the race, on either side, that candidate would've won in a landslide.

I know, right?  I feel like either side could have replaced their candidate with a literal turd sandwich and increased their odds.

Obligatory south park reference



FIPurpose

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #233 on: November 09, 2016, 10:06:54 AM »
Trump has no real moral convictions. I kind of doubt he has any real legislative convictions either. He can probably be convinced by just about anyone to do anything. The question will be who will Trump be listening to? Pence? Ryan? McConnell? GOP will either spend its time passing tax simplification or social issues that will waste millions of dollars and then be brought down by the courts. 50/50?

Chris22

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #234 on: November 09, 2016, 10:10:22 AM »
Trump has no real moral convictions. I kind of doubt he has any real legislative convictions either. He can probably be convinced by just about anyone to do anything. The question will be who will Trump be listening to? Pence? Ryan? McConnell? GOP will either spend its time passing tax simplification or social issues that will waste millions of dollars and then be brought down by the courts. 50/50?

I think at his core he's a businessman and a deal maker, and I really don't think he gives a crap about social issues.  I think he cares about 1) money and 2) appearing to win, so he'll focus on areas where he can do/gain those things.

LeRainDrop

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #235 on: November 09, 2016, 10:14:33 AM »
Trump has no real moral convictions. I kind of doubt he has any real legislative convictions either. He can probably be convinced by just about anyone to do anything. The question will be who will Trump be listening to? Pence? Ryan? McConnell? GOP will either spend its time passing tax simplification or social issues that will waste millions of dollars and then be brought down by the courts. 50/50?

I think at his core he's a businessman and a deal maker, and I really don't think he gives a crap about social issues.  I think he cares about 1) money and 2) appearing to win, so he'll focus on areas where he can do/gain those things.

+1

FINate

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #236 on: November 09, 2016, 10:16:44 AM »
Trump has no real moral convictions. I kind of doubt he has any real legislative convictions either. He can probably be convinced by just about anyone to do anything. The question will be who will Trump be listening to? Pence? Ryan? McConnell? GOP will either spend its time passing tax simplification or social issues that will waste millions of dollars and then be brought down by the courts. 50/50?

I think at his core he's a businessman and a deal maker, and I really don't think he gives a crap about social issues.  I think he cares about 1) money and 2) appearing to win, so he'll focus on areas where he can do/gain those things.

+1

He's a politician, essentially

accolay

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #237 on: November 09, 2016, 10:16:50 AM »
Fixed, I've said all along, I think people on the left sincerely underestimate how unlikable the right and much of the middle finds Hillary.  Frankly, had almost any other candidate been in the race, on either side, that candidate would've won in a landslide.

Yeah, Hilary, sure, but Obama was definitely part of it. I said it somewhere else...I wonder how many Democrats are saying this morning, "We should have gone with Sanders..."

bacchi

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #238 on: November 09, 2016, 10:21:25 AM »
Trump has no real moral convictions. I kind of doubt he has any real legislative convictions either. He can probably be convinced by just about anyone to do anything. The question will be who will Trump be listening to? Pence? Ryan? McConnell? GOP will either spend its time passing tax simplification or social issues that will waste millions of dollars and then be brought down by the courts. 50/50?

I think at his core he's a businessman and a deal maker, and I really don't think he gives a crap about social issues.  I think he cares about 1) money and 2) appearing to win, so he'll focus on areas where he can do/gain those things.

If Trump truly doesn't put his assets into a blind trust, he'll definitely gain a lot of money during his term.

The big concern with Trump is his off the cuff remarks and, well, temper tantrums. Angering powerful nations, such as China, makes it more difficult to work with them.


robartsd

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #239 on: November 09, 2016, 10:30:20 AM »
I see the Trump win as largely a referendum on establishment politics (I expect that Sanders would have captured this sentiment for the Democrats). In spite of a majority in both houses in congress, the presidency, and (soon) a favorable supreme court, I don't think Republicans will be able to erode any of the civil liberties that many seem to fear they will nor will they be able to outright repeal Obama Care. For one thing, the Democrats still have the ability to filibuster in the Senate. I don't see the Democratic Senators allowing legislation that would eliminate protections for people with preexisting conditions or completely eliminate subsidies.

I do think the Republicans will be able to pass tariffs intended to reduce the trade deficit (making cheap Chinese stuff less cheap). They will also be able to cut corporate taxes intending to make america a better place for business. They may be able to modify the ACA reducing required coverage, reducing subsidies, and/or eliminating the individual mandate.

The ACA may be part of why Trump won: it is open enrollment time and people who are unhappy with changes in their plans may have cast their vote for the candidate promising to replace it. Improving it (without screwing up foreign relations or the economy) could be the highlight of Trump's 4-year term (and a key campaign topic for a reelection bid).

HPstache

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #240 on: November 09, 2016, 10:35:10 AM »
Here's another decent article explaining why it happened and how it could not be so bad:

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.1fauc9nzq

TexasRunner

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #241 on: November 09, 2016, 10:36:53 AM »
I see the Trump win as largely a referendum on establishment politics (I expect that Sanders would have captured this sentiment for the Democrats). In spite of a majority in both houses in congress, the presidency, and (soon) a favorable supreme court, I don't think Republicans will be able to erode any of the civil liberties that many seem to fear they will nor will they be able to outright repeal Obama Care. For one thing, the Democrats still have the ability to filibuster in the Senate. I don't see the Democratic Senators allowing legislation that would eliminate protections for people with preexisting conditions or completely eliminate subsidies.
...

And I don't see Trump proposing that in the first place.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Health_Care.htm

Quote
Keep pre-existing condition coverage; not individual mandate

Q: Senator Rubio, you said that Mr. Trump thinks part of ObamaCare is pretty good. Which part?
RUBIO: The individual mandate. He said he likes the individual mandate portion of it; I don't believe that should remain there. We need to repeal ObamaCare completely and replace it with a system that puts Americans in charge of their health care money again.
TRUMP: I agree with that 100%, except pre-existing conditions, I would absolutely get rid of ObamaCare. I want to keep pre- existing conditions. It's a modern age, and I think we have to have it.
Q: The insurance companies say is that the only way that they can cover people with pre-existing conditions is to have a mandate requiring everybody purchase health insurance. Are they wrong?
TRUMP: I think they're wrong 100%. Look, the insurance companies take care of the politicians [and vice-versa]. The insurance companies are making an absolute fortune. Yes, they will keep preexisting conditions, and that would be a great thing.
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016
Removing cross-state barriers solves many insurance issues

Quote
TRUMP: We should have gotten rid of the lines around the state so there's competition. The insurance companies are making a fortune on every single thing they do. You're going to see preexisting conditions, but the price will be down, and the insurance companies can pay. Yes, they will keep preexisting conditions, and that would be a great thing. Get rid of ObamaCare, we'll come up with new plans. But, we should keep preexisting conditions.
RUBIO: Here's what you didn't hear in that answer. What is your plan? I understand the lines around the state, whatever that means. This is not a game where you draw maps. What is your plan, Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: You get rid of the lines, it brings in competition. So, instead of having one insurance company taking care of New York, or Texas, you'll have many. They'll compete, and it'll be a beautiful thing.
RUBIO: So, that's the only part of the plan? Just the lines?
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016

Quote
Taking care of poor sick people isn't single-payer

Q: If Obamacare is repealed & there's no mandate for everybody to have insurance, why would insurance companies insure somebody who has a pre-existing condition?
TRUMP: Well, I like the mandate. I don't want people dying on the streets. The Republican people, they don't want people dying on the streets, but sometimes they'll say "Donald Trump wants single payer."
Q: Will people with pre-existing conditions be able to get insurance?
TRUMP: Yes. Now, the new plan is good. It's going to be inexpensive. It's going to be much better for the people at the bottom, people that don't have any money. We're going to take care of them through maybe concepts of Medicare. Now, some people would say, "that's not a very Republican thing to say." That's not single payer, by the way. That's called heart. We gotta take care of people that can't take care of themselves.
Source: 2016 CNN GOP Town Hall in South Carolina , Feb 18, 2016

But thanks for playing.

It seems to me most democrats are being caught by surprise because they were in an echo chamber (albeit possibly unknowingly) and never even listened to what Trump was saying.  He isn't getting rid of pre-existing conditions clause, he is getting (or planning to) rid of forced insurance and they probably are going to replace ACA.  To me, all of these are a good thing if they can pull it off.  F the insurance douchbags that lobbied for insurance to be a mandate in the first place.


mm1970

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #242 on: November 09, 2016, 10:37:41 AM »
Here's another decent article explaining why it happened and how it could not be so bad:

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.1fauc9nzq
Except I don't think Bernie could have won.

waltworks

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #243 on: November 09, 2016, 10:43:36 AM »
On the ACA question, my guess is that if anything, this will hasten the arrival of single payer/medicare for all. Trump has openly supported most (SS, medicare, "don't let people die on the streets") of what it would take already. If you just kill the insurance mandate, but keep the preexisting condition requirement, the insurance companies are pretty much screwed (get seriously ill? Go buy some insurance!) or alternately prices will rise so high that nobody will get insurance at all.

I'm ok with blowing up our healthcare system. It sucks. Hopefully we can do it with minimal disruption.

-W

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #244 on: November 09, 2016, 10:48:07 AM »
Good summary Spartana!

bacchi

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #245 on: November 09, 2016, 10:55:28 AM »
On the ACA question, my guess is that if anything, this will hasten the arrival of single payer/medicare for all. Trump has openly supported most (SS, medicare, "don't let people die on the streets") of what it would take already. If you just kill the insurance mandate, but keep the preexisting condition requirement, the insurance companies are pretty much screwed (get seriously ill? Go buy some insurance!) or alternately prices will rise so high that nobody will get insurance at all.

I'm ok with blowing up our healthcare system. It sucks. Hopefully we can do it with minimal disruption.

-W

Yep, you can't have one without the other. Either way, if the no-mandate passes, it might just lead to single-payer.

Or it could lead to a more bifurcated system where only the wealthy can afford health care.

bacchi

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #246 on: November 09, 2016, 10:58:49 AM »
Here's another decent article explaining why it happened and how it could not be so bad:

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.1fauc9nzq
Except I don't think Bernie could have won.

There also wasn't a Democratic "echo chamber."

An echo chamber is when everyone else is saying that you're going to lose but your friends insist that you'll win because of internal polls. That's what happened to Romney.

With Clinton, EVERYONE, from the polls to the betting lines to the markets, was assuming that she'd win. Even Trump believed that he was going to lose -- he was already suing in NV because he figured that would be a key state and he was also talking up a rigged election.

Big difference.

Cwadda

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #247 on: November 09, 2016, 11:22:17 AM »
This election is already over. Clinton won a long time ago.

Well I was definitely wrong.

frugalnacho

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #248 on: November 09, 2016, 11:33:45 AM »
This election is already over. Clinton won a long time ago.

Well I was definitely wrong.


dragoncar

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Re: The Election Results Thread
« Reply #249 on: November 09, 2016, 11:37:50 AM »
Totally agree to blame Hillary for being such a crappy candidate she allowed trump to win.  All through the night, newscasters kept comparing her progress to Obama.  Uh, she's not Obama... Nowhere near it.  She may mimic his policies but that's where the similarity ends.

It's shit like this that makes me think we deserve what we are getting: http://abc7.com/news/anti-trump-protests-form-across-state-after-election-results/1597889/


Well I'm as surprised as everyone else in the world. Honestly the popular/electoral vote inversion is always a surprising outcome, and even then, as far as this election goes, it is one of the closest popular votes in our history (<0.15%). When the election runs that close it usually seems to be a coin flip on how votes distribute across states.

Who are the losers? Well I think it's terrible that a person with terrible PR and no international respect (well at least from countries that we historically like?) was elected. But honestly, I imagine that the real losers are the suckers that Trump convinced to vote for him. I doubt he'll be appealing to them too much longer. Now that he has the power, he'll be running things as he sees fit. Evangelicals will once again not gain anything that they were promised, and hang onto the next race for that ever extending carrot of pro-life promises. Moderate GOP members of House and Senate will be making the calls, and they're going to pass moderate legislation that can actually move through a tight Senate.

The justice replaced is going to replace Scalia. Scalia's vote was obvious every time. No major court decisions will change.

People that thought they were blowing up the system will be disappointed to find that Trump is part of it. They'll see him working with Dems and GOP to rubber stamp things to make himself feel like he's doing something, and do nothing that his supporters actually want.

Ive always suspected this was true, and hope it turns out to be.  It always seemed like trumps entire platform was just a show calculated to get votes, so it remains to be seen if he feels any obligation to follow through (does he really want a second term?).  I'm 100% sure his goal is self enrichment, but that doesn't necessarily have to cost the nation that much if he walks back his crazier ideas
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 11:42:22 AM by dragoncar »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!