I take back every bad thing I said about my gas guzzling van...

[hunniebun]

My 2006 Honda Odyssey Van which currently averages about 14 MPG is my new favorite possession despite being almost un-drivable right now.  Just a few hours ago it save both of my children when we were t-boned by a complete maniac who decided to randomly do a u-turn on a highway across 4 lanes of traffic and slammed into us.  Both my kids were without a scratch and didn't even cry they were so well protected in their car seats and by the sturdy steel structure of my Bohemeith monstrosity. I hearby take back every bad thing I have said about it since finding MMM.  I might be a van fan for life.  (...and yes...I know small cars can be safe too...but I think if this one is not written off...I will be keeping it for a while longer...it feels lucky now). 

[NoraLenderbee]

I'm glad you're all OK!

[Wolf_Stache]

I'm glad you got out unscathed!

I'd ask what moron does a u-turn on the highway but I've witnessed people backing down the freeway before (yes, against traffic) sooooo.... yeah.

[Russ]

It has been repeatedly shown that small cars are SAFER than large ones. If you think your van is an exception you're fooling yourself.

[MDM]

It has been repeatedly shown that small cars are SAFER than large ones. If you think your van is an exception you're fooling yourself.

Citations?

Searching the internet for the phrase "small cars are SAFER than large ones" found at least three saying the opposite.  Didn't find any in support.  But it was a quick search...:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-large-cars.html
http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&id=26212:are-small-cars-less-safe-than-larger-ones&catid=58:health-living&Itemid=89
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1049212_are-larger-heavier-cars-safer-than-smaller-lighter-ones

ETA: Also see http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/CAFE+-+Fuel+Economy/NHTSA+Vehicle+Mass-Size-Safety+Workshop.  While not making an exhaustive check of the papers, the ones read all confirmed "heavier is safer" among cars, minivans, and SUVs.  Pickups may be different, but OP has a minivan.  E.g.,

[Taran Wanderer]

I was a firefighter for 5 years. I can confidently say that small cars are not safer than large cars or trucks. The unfortunate fact is that size usually wins.

[Russ]

We've had this discussion here more than once. I may try and dig up the threads tomorrow if I have time.

Independent of whether or not a small car is safer or less safe for its driver and passengers, I hope you are also taking into consideration other road users for whom your small car is undoubtedly safer. Tragedy of the "car"mons, if you will

[Taran Wanderer]

Pickups don't do so well in rollovers. Not enough structure to hold up the extra weight.

[homehandymum]

SO glad you and your babies are fine!

[hunniebun]

Thanks! No one is happier than me that this story has a happy ending.    Living in Northern Canada where many many people (it feels like 50%) have large trucks and SUVs, driving a small car often feels physiologically more vulnerable.  I used to have a toyota matrix which I also really liked...but when parked beside a jacked up truck, the bumper of the truck looks like it would go right the window, rather than impacting the frame/door!  Safety wise, the van feels more like a tank and the gas mileage certainly reflects that. But as with all things in life, we make our choices and live with them. For me, I will be living with this gas guzzler for a while longer and will be happy to do it!!

[Bob W]

I feel safe in my 18 mpg SUV.   Not swapping for a little car and would never ride a bike around here.  Glad you and the kids are good.

[sol]

We've had this discussion here more than once. I may try and dig up the threads tomorrow if I have time.

The confusion here is because some people are looking at percent of people who survive an accident (big cars are safer) and some people are looking at percent of people who die while driving different types of cars (small cars are safer).

If you're going to crash, bigger is better.  If you'd rather not crash, smaller is better.

[MDM]

...some people are looking at percent of people who die while driving different types of cars (small cars are safer).

It appears that conclusion is opposite to the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin data presented above...?

[Bob W]

Some helpful hints to go beyond the big heavy vs. light small discussion.

Energy/speed are exponential in character - the faster you go it becomes more dangerous on an exponential scale.   Driving 70 is not  27% more dangerous than driving 55.  It is more like 200% more dangerous.  (I'm sure you math wizs can correct that).  Point being driving 55 is way safer than 70.

Intersections are high danger zones.   

Most car collisions are when left turns are made.  So much so that many cities have eliminated left turns and UPS tries to run their drivers on right hand turning routes.

Driving at night, in weather,  on poor surfaces is dangerous.

Seat belts and car seats save lives.  (just ask the OP) 

The less miles you drive, the less your chances of a fatality.  Drive solely on city roads under 45 and you will come close to zero statistically.  (this is probably offset if you bike instead of driving but I'm not interested in that discussion.)

Cars with air bags,  side air bags are safer.   So if you opt for a 2001 Camry (my favorite) you won't have side air bags.

Defensive driving works.   Drive slow,  be aware,  drive in off peaks,  drive sober,  don't drive angry,  don't text and drive,  don't use the cell phone,  don't eat,  smoke or be distracted in anyway.   Never drive tired as this is as bad as DUI.   Never be in a hurry driving.  Never!

For a MMM person reducing trips, commutes and overall driving is a huge life extension tool (again if not replaced with biking).   An MMMer who drives less than 2500 miles per year has effectively reduced their chances of dying in a car wreck from 1 in 200 to around 1 in 1000. 

Add the above mentioned safety tips and you can be in the 1 in 5000 range over a lifetime.   Still pretty dangerous by any measure.   Most people would not ride on a roller coaster that kills one out of every 10,000 riders.   Few would fly an airline if 1 jet per week crashed on average.  (something like 100 people per day die on the roads in the US each day with 1000s more injured)

To the OP.  I'm very glad you are alright.   Time to lawyer up my friend.  The near death experience of you and your children was an appalling example of dangerous driving.   I would hope that criminal charges are pursued (press the DA on this).  At very least you should be able to sue for emotional damages.  One would think that a 150K check is in your future.     So that may be a bright side to a bad moment. 

[Russ]

(this is probably offset if you bike instead of driving but I'm not interested in that discussion.)

huge life extension tool (again if not replaced with biking)

pro tip if you don't want to talk about something then don't bring it up (twice!)

but now that you have I'm gonna call your bullshit, unless you can provide evidence that this is something other than your disputable opinion

[lostamonkey]

There was an MMM blog post about this a while back. According to him, bigger vehicles are slightly safer but the extra safety is not worth it based on the extra cost.

[Davin]

Smaller cars are safer... for the poor person being run into by one. There are many ways that larger vehicles are more dangerous, just not usually for their occupants, but for everyone else out there. I was the pedestrian victim of a hit and run in December; I'm sure glad that bitch wasn't driving a big SUV, or I'd probably be dead.

[Taran Wanderer]

Some helpful hints to go beyond the big heavy vs. light small discussion....

...    So that may be a bright side to a bad moment.

Yes to all of the above. Plus, avoid getting T-boned. That's one of the reasons left turns are bad. Nothing good comes from getting t-boned, no matter how big the vehicle. Two vehicles dead straight head on - it's possible to walk away. Two vehicles in a frontal offset crash - serious injuries at a minimum. One vehicle t-bones another - probable fatality. I've seen it be fatal even at 25-30 mph. There just isn't enough steel there to protect you.

Also, where are my manners?  To the OP, I am also glad you are okay.  Despite all the awful things that can happen, modern vehicles and car seats are pretty amazing things. It's wonderful to hear that they worked so well for you.

[Bob W]

(this is probably offset if you bike instead of driving but I'm not interested in that discussion.)

huge life extension tool (again if not replaced with biking)

pro tip if you don't want to talk about something then don't bring it up (twice!)

but now that you have I'm gonna call your bullshit, unless you can provide evidence that this is something other than your disputable opinion

Russ, 

You and your 2 year old are T boned at 40 miles per hour by a crazy driver.   You pick your vehicle  --- Heavy van with child sealed in a car seat,  small car or a bike?   

End of debate. 

[Russ]

that's not how probability and statistics works homie

[I'm a red panda]

There was an MMM blog post about this a while back. According to him, bigger vehicles are slightly safer but the extra safety is not worth it based on the extra cost.

Expected value works for statisticians.  My life may not be "statistically significant" but it's pretty darn significant to me.

I chose a bigger vehicle regardless of cost (though I still drive a compact- I just couldn't do subcompact)
I also chose new instead of old because of safety features. I bet the "expected value" of those aren't worth it; but for me they sure are.

[TrMama]

I'm so glad you and the children are alright. Take it easy for the next couple days until you figure out if any of you have whiplash, or any injuries that take a while to show up. Also, if I remember correctly, I think car seats are supposed to be replaced after an accident like that. Your insurance should cover new ones.

[Bob W]

that's not how probability and statistics works homie

I'm well aware how statistics work.   I also have children and know they aren't statistics.   You didn't pick a vehicle?

[southern granny]

So glad your little ones are safe.  Re:  small vehicles vs big vehicles.  There was a head on collision in my area a week or so ago.  Head on collision between a SUV and a car.  The two people in the car died at the scene.  The two people in the SUV had only minor injuries.  Everyone was wearing a seat belt.  It was very sad.  The two fatalities were young men in their twenties who from all accounts were very nice guys.  The SUV crossed the line. 

[Dicey]

This article was featured on Yahoo yesterday. The colums didn't align correctly when I cut and pasted it, but it's easy to see that the Honda Odyssey is in the number two position on the list. To Russ' point, I see a couple of sedans on this list, but nothing that's classified as a small car. Here's a link to the article, in which the columns are aligned perfectly. If you scroll down, there is also a list of the worst vehicles. Plenty of small cars there.

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/death-proof-cars--study-finds-nine-models-with-zero-driver-fatalities-190624666.html

"The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the research arm of the nation's auto insurance companies, studied driver deaths between 2009 and 2012 for mass-market vehicles. (It did not examine passenger deaths due to unreliable data.) Overall, it found that new models with newer technology, especially stability control, had cut the overall death rate in vehicles by a third in the three years since it had last run the numbers. Had vehicle tech been frozen at 1985 levels, the IIHS estimates by 2012 an additional 7,700 people would have died in crashes.

Vehicle   
Deaths per million registered vehicle years
Multi-vehicle crashes   Single-vehicle crashes   Rollovers
Audi A4 4WD   0   0   0   0
Honda Odyssey   0   0   0   0
Kia Sorento 2WD   0   0   0   0
Lexus RX 350 4WD   0   0   0   0
Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 4WD   0   0   0   0
Subaru Legacy 4WD   0   0   0   0
Toyota Highlander hybrid 4WD   0   0   0   0
Toyota Sequoia 4WD   0   0   0   0
Volvo XC90 4WD   0   0   0   0
Honda Pilot 4WD   2   0   2   0
Mercedes-Benz M-Class 4WD   3   3   0   0
Ford Crown Victoria   4   4   0   0
GMC Yukon 4WD   4   0   4   0
Acura TL 2WD   5   5   0   0
Chevrolet Equinox 2WD   5   3   2   0
Chevrolet Equinox 4WD   5   5   0   0
Ford Expedition 4WD   5   5   0   0
Ford Flex 2WD   5   0   5   0
Mazda CX-9 4WD   5   0   5   5
The IIHS calculates its death rate per years registered of a particular model; the industry average is 28 deaths per one million registered years for 2011 models in 2012; in 2008, the rate was 48. When it dug deeper, the IIHS found nine 2011 models that had no recorded deaths of drivers — the first time the group had found any such vehicles. Six of them were SUVs; overall, SUVs had the lowest death rates of any vehicle type, mostly due to the mandate of electronic stability controls and the physics of larger vehicles offering more protection from the forces of a crash than smaller ones. (Compared to 2004 models, SUVs from the 2011 model-year on have a rollover rate that's 75 percent less.)"

To the OP: I'm glad you and your precious babies are okay.

[hunniebun]

Thanks to everyone for the posts! One week post accident and I am happy to report that we are all fine and whiplash free.  The kids car seats have been replaced and the lunatic who hit us has claimed full responsibility for the accident, so all that is left is for me to find somewhere to have the van fixed.  The assessment for repairs is for 5000$ which is not too bad. I am glad it was not more because our van is a 2005 I was a bit worried 'they' would write it off!

It doesn't surprise me that the Odyssey is at the top of the safety list...it is kind of like a baby-hauling tank. It just FEELS heavy and safe...and the gas consumption confirms it :)