How to relate to sibling after his divorce

[jrhampt]

My brother announced he was moving out and wanted a divorce from my sister in law a few months ago.  They have two small children; the youngest just turned two years old.  My sister in law wanted to go to counseling together and try to work things out, but he refused.  He has already moved on with a new girlfriend, although the divorce is not yet final, and it is unclear when he actually started seeing this new person, since he has lied about it.  Both my brother and sister in law have full time jobs, and just before my brother asked for a divorce, he got a new job which requires him to travel quite a bit, so he is not doing much of the parenting.  What time he has available, he spends much of visiting friends or the new girlfriend, rather than with his kids.  I feel like he's being a complete jerk and abandoned his children. I hardly know him anymore.  He wants to stay in contact with me but I don't know how to respond.  I really don't want to see him or talk to him right now.  I should say that my sister in law is a very nice person who has never cheated on him or done anything to deserve this; my brother claims that they have nothing in common and that he's doing this for her own good because he was a bad husband.  So far I don't see how this is working out well for her; she's had to move back in with her parents and do the bulk of the childcare while he is having fun with his new girlfriend.  Has anyone here had to deal with a similar situation?  How did you respond?

[mxt0133]

I've gone through this situation with friends that have done similar things in the past.  I was a bit younger and at the time I decided to distance myself from them because I didn't approve of their behavior.  It had the effect of loosing the friendship because of me being judgmental.  It had nothing to do with our friendship and I should have done a better job communicating how I felt and not sever the relationship.

I guess it's up to you to decide how you want your relationship continue with your brother.  But I think you need to recognize that you are one being judgmental and that it is you who will be changing the relationship. 

If it was my brother, which I am pretty close to and he did something similar. I would hold judgement as best as I can.  I would not sever my relationship with him just because I don't agree with some of his decisions.  I would do my best to empathize with him and understand so that I can get over myself and continue to have a healthy relationship with my brother.

[mak1277]

My brother is my brother...while I don't expect to agree with all of the things he does, I wouldn't ever discard him from my life just because he did something I don't agree with. 

That said, I would absolutely have long and serious conversations with him about a situation like this, particularly what appears to be his lack of parenting of his kids. 

[jrhampt]

@mxt0133:

That's my problem - he's my brother.  If it had been a friend who was a total jerk to another friend, I'd probably just let the friendship go.  I'd like to have a relationship on the one hand, but on the other hand, yes, I am judging him.  Because what he's doing is wrong and hurtful to other members of the family (my sister in law and his kids), and he shows no remorse whatsoever.  He's not open to discussing it either.

[Jim2001]

@mxt0133:

That's my problem - he's my brother.  If it had been a friend who was a total jerk to another friend, I'd probably just let the friendship go.  I'd like to have a relationship on the one hand, but on the other hand, yes, I am judging him.  Because what he's doing is wrong and hurtful to other members of the family (my sister in law and his kids), and he shows no remorse whatsoever.  He's not open to discussing it either.

You say he's not open to discussing it but wants to stay in touch, which puts you in a bind and requires you to ignore something which seems to bother you.  When my brother complained about having to pay child support, I reminded him of his obligation as a father, regardless of the relationship with his ex. 

In the end, I cut him out of my life because of his lack of commitment to his children and other character flaws.  The one thing I would do differently is to have been more involved with his kids.  For various reasons (my own kids to raise and 2000 miles between us), I didn't stay as close to them as I should have...

So, my $.02 based on experience is to speak up and let the chips fall where they may.  More importantly, reach out to the children and focus on staying connected to the innocent family members impacted by his decisions.

[bonjourliz]

As close as you may be, you are still an outsider here.  You don't know exactly what their marriage was like and,frankly, at this point it doesn't even matter.  They are were they are, whether that is the result of prudent choices or not.

I'd try to keep the door open to him and the kids.  You don't need to be his best friend and you definitely don't need to validate nonsense. But you do want to keep the relationship intact.  At least for now.  At some point maybe you will choose to revisit that, but it sounds like for now you arent ready to write him off.

[MsSindy]

I think there's a grey area between having a relationship with your brother and being an acquaintance and polite at the next family get together.  It sounds like he's being an ass without a good reason - I don't hang out with asses, nor should you.  That doesn't mean you have to cut him out of your life completely.  Be polite.  It leaves the door open for some time in the future if he wants to have a conversation to help you fully understand why he did what he did.  Or...you may find out that he's just an ass.

Either way, lend your time and emotional energy to your SIL and the kids....not your brother.

[golden1]

It is really hard when a family member disappoints you, and even harder because your brothers children are also your family, so your loyalties are torn between two family members.  Personally, I'd let your brother do his thing, not concentrate on him at all, and do what you can to support your nieces or nephews, because they are innocent here. 

[MrsDinero]

It is really hard when a family member disappoints you, and even harder because your brothers children are also your family, so your loyalties are torn between two family members.  Personally, I'd let your brother do his thing, not concentrate on him at all, and do what you can to support your nieces or nephews, because they are innocent here.

+1

[FINate]

Relationships have been broken, people hurt. As an outside observer you are put in a position where you must judge who is in the wrong. As long as your assessment of the situation is reasonably objective then you should be confident in your conclusion that your brother broke his vows and family commitments and therefore he bears the responsibility. This doesn't make you "judgemental" in the negative connotation sense of the word, it's simply the reality of the situation.

He should know that you disagree with his *behavior* while still being his brother. Continue to remind him of his responsibility as a father, both emotionally and financially.  If this bothers that's his problem and his choice if he decides to distance himself. As others have already stated, I would prioritized energy with your SIL and your nieces and nephews.

[big_owl]

Personally I don't see why anybody should be forced to maintain a relationship with somebody just because they're a sibling.  WGAF?  If you really dislike him that much then just go about it like you would any other friend who you have a falling out with - let the relationship fade away.  It's not like you had any sort of choice in him being your brother to begin with.  If you'd rather show your allegance to the SIL then so be it.  I err on the side of "it's none of my GD business" but that's just me.

[Kitsune]

It is really hard when a family member disappoints you, and even harder because your brothers children are also your family, so your loyalties are torn between two family members.  Personally, I'd let your brother do his thing, not concentrate on him at all, and do what you can to support your nieces or nephews, because they are innocent here.

+1

+2

What happens in a marriage (or the failing thereof) is no one else's business (barring abuse and the like, obv), so maybe don't get into that with him at all.

But regardless of his relationship with his ex, he has a relationship with his kids. Failing at that speaks to character, commitment, and, frankly, makes me question why he'd want your support so much - like, if family as a concept is super important, hows about you treat your kids well, y'know? Mind: not keeping in close contact is likely to lead to a chillier relationship with him down the road, but it's up to you to decide whether you want a close relationship with a man who treats his kids like that.

[Cpa Cat]

I think the first thing you need to accept is that it's none of your business why his marriage fell apart. His wife may be a saint, but relationships are complicated. Clearly, he's not in love with that saint anymore.

It's unfortunate that her financial and emotional life is not going well - you can certainly assist her with child care or whatever else. But blaming your brother for not maintaining an unhappy relationship with her isn't helpful to her, you, or him. Sometimes people break up. Sometimes nice people break up.

That said, what he's doing to his children by not being involved with them is unfair. If you maintain a friendship with your brother, you might be able to influence him to do more for them and with them. It's possible that once the excitement of his "new life" dies down, he'll decide to become more involved. Or, he might not. If that happens, you'll need to decide if your brother is someone you care to have in your life.

Keep in mind, that you do not need to make any drastic decisions. You can let the relationship fade by politely declining invitations, exiting conversations, not giving him nice birthday gifts, etc.

I suggest that you wait and see. Their divorce isn't even final yet. It will take them time to learn how to co-parent in a divorce, if that's what they end up doing.

[golden1]

I couldn't really finish my thoughts before on this because I had to go somewhere. 

My husband was really close to his brother, and about 10 years ago he made a series of decisions that we (and my in-laws) felt were very unwise.  We gave him our advice, he rejected it, and he now lives with the consequences, fairly unhappily.  We basically just decided to maintain a presence in his life, but at a distance, so that he knew that we would be there if he really needed it, but not getting too involved with the train wreck that his life became.  I can say that my husband was very bewildered at that time, and still is to some extent, although he has made his peace with it.  I feel sorry for my BIL and sometimes I am a bit angry with him too, but there aren't any children involved, yet (and hopefully not ever).  He asks for money sometimes, and we drew a hard line in the sand there.  But we are happy to have him come visit and see our kids, come for game nights etc....  It is tough balance to try to maintain a relationship while not getting sucked into the drama, but it is necessary sometimes.

Good luck.  I know it sucks. 

[Noodle]

There's really no way to know what went on in the marriage, even though there was nothing visible to outsiders going wrong. Apparently one of the primary causes of marital issues and divorce is bedroom problems, and I always wonder if that's what's really going on in some of the cases where people give vague or unconvincing answers as to the reason for breaking it off. At any rate, all you can see is what he's done since the separation, especially in regards to his children, which as their uncle/aunt you do have standing to mention (even with a gentle "I think the kids really miss you.")  The problem with bringing down the hammer on family members, even deservedly, is that it can backfire by making people double-down on bad behavior out of spite or resentment, or at the very least make it tough for them to walk it back when time and distance have made them come around to your way of thinking. So in your case, I think I would do everything I could for the nieces and nephews, have whatever relationship you want with SIL, and then just try to accept that bro is not being his best self right now and encourage every step back in that direction. Whatever went on in their marriage has probably been brewing for a long time, and your brother would not be the first person to go a little wild during such a big life change, which you say yourself was only a few months ago. In another six months, he may have his act together.

[elaine amj]

Good luck - the fallout from a breakup can be far-reaching.

DH's best friend from childhood separated from his wife a couple of years ago - because he "wasn't happy". Two years later, I don't know if he's "happy". He's been dating someone for over a year now. I was actually closer to him for many years. After the breakup, I was very concerned for the wife so spent a lot of effort reaching out to her and we have been extremely close since.

Since the breakup, we see the husband still - but definitely not as frequently. My own DH is a family man and just isn't as interested in "guys nights", etc. Plus the husband was into all kinds of things we're not, including clubbing, drinking, and partying. Our idea of awesome friend time is dominoes and a potluck meal. We didn't shut him out because we didn't like what he was doing, but it has cooled off some. He just changed so much. Thankfully, he's starting to be more like his old self and we're definitely enjoying that a lot more. I still have lunch with him occasionally (we work in the same area of town). He's been there for DH in recent tough times and we definitely will continue being friends with him - he's DH's "brother from another mother".

It's awkward though. He's DH's best friend. She's MY best friend. Plus, his mother and father both love the wife and have stayed close with her (they've told her she'll always be their daughter). Plus things have not gone well with his relationship with his teen girls. On the good side, he does try. Unfortunately, he keeps messing it up - to the point that his daughters are keeping their distance from him. It's so very painful to watch. He's not acting as much of a "jerk" as your brother is seeming though. I don't know if we could maintain relationship if he was.

[Metric Mouse]

I've gone through this situation with friends that have done similar things in the past.  I was a bit younger and at the time I decided to distance myself from them because I didn't approve of their behavior.  It had the effect of loosing the friendship because of me being judgmental.  It had nothing to do with our friendship and I should have done a better job communicating how I felt and not sever the relationship.

I guess it's up to you to decide how you want your relationship continue with your brother.  But I think you need to recognize that you are one being judgmental and that it is you who will be changing the relationship. 

If it was my brother, which I am pretty close to and he did something similar. I would hold judgement as best as I can.  I would not sever my relationship with him just because I don't agree with some of his decisions.  I would do my best to empathize with him and understand so that I can get over myself and continue to have a healthy relationship with my brother.

+1

Hold judgment, be there for your brother, and be there for his kids, if you wish. No sense in wishing he was unhappily in a relationship with someone just because they had kids. He made a poor choice by marrying his ex and choosing to have children; he's clearly trying to move past his prior mistakes and jumping down his throat to push the moral high ground isn't going to help him through his rough patch.

[Pigeon]

I think there's a grey area between having a relationship with your brother and being an acquaintance and polite at the next family get together.  It sounds like he's being an ass without a good reason - I don't hang out with asses, nor should you.  That doesn't mean you have to cut him out of your life completely.  Be polite.  It leaves the door open for some time in the future if he wants to have a conversation to help you fully understand why he did what he did.  Or...you may find out that he's just an ass.

Either way, lend your time and emotional energy to your SIL and the kids....not your brother.

This. No matter what the reason for the break up, he is treating his children badly at a time when they probably need him most. I would be polite but would support the SIL.

[Fishindude]

You can't do anything about his behavior, but that doesn't mean you can't call him out on it.
If it was my brother, I'd let him know he was being a real dick, and why he was being a real dick, and if he didn't like those comments, tough sh!t.   

After that I would be friendly to he and his ex and try to be good to the kids.   Several of my siblings have divorced and I still remain friendly with their ex.   Things can get a little uncomfortable at times during gatherings, etc. but that's not my problem, it's theirs.   Most important is, do what you can for the kids in this situation.

[Cassie]

I think I would maintain some distance but leave the door open for the future. I would also try to help your SIL as much as I could. She is having a rough time while he has a new life. Ugh!

[jrhampt]

Thanks all for the comments.  He is now trying to cast himself as the victim since unanimously, all of his friends and family members have told him it's a bad decision.  So he now has no friends and he's upset that everyone's being "so judgmental".  So be it.  I told him the truth and he's not taking it well.

[hoping2retire35]

You need to separate the issue of the divorce from not seeing the kids.

As for the divorce I mostly agree with others that it is basically none of your business, however his attitude about his GF and the kids seems to indicate he cheated or something to end the marriage. Personally if had a close family member that cheated I would take issue with it, but that is a more personal call, how your family dynamic works, etc.

As for the kids on the other hand, it is clear he is a jerk. For certain people, and it sounds like he is or is becoming one of them, a somewhat polite phone call of "the kids miss you it is irresponsible to not take more care of them" isn't going to cut it. He will only become defensive and turn up the victim stuff. Perhaps something, in person of course, more along the lines of "Hey dick, take your kids to the park!" is what may be necessary to get the ball rolling. That simple shouted sentence says a lot, like "hey brother I care about you and my nephew and niece and I don't want you to do(or not do) something you are going to regret later. You need to change you attitude immediately so you can maintain the relationship with your children".

You will of course have to make the decision yourself and own it, best of luck.

[purple monkey]

So, try to stay on the fence, for the kids' sake.
Yes, it won't do any good to tell your sibling that what he is doing is bad.
He already knows that.
There will be consequences.
Keep sister-in-law happy without taking sides.
Good luck.  I have already been through this and now my sister-in-law is acting out, but my brother did start all the drama.
So sorry you all are going through this.