Author Topic: Letting a friend go. I  (Read 13710 times)

Lulee

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2019, 04:47:32 PM »
I live alone and find that I feel safest by keeping the doors locked at all time so I control entry to my apartment.  Maybe do that while your husband is away and if you see him coming, don't answer.  I've dodged unwelcome visitors by saying I was in a part of the house where I couldn't hear them (it's a weird set up and you actually can miss people knocking if you're not in the right area) and so far, no one's gotten bent out of shape over it.

So sorry that you're going through this.  You have always been one of the wisest posters on these boards IMO and so I'd agree with the others who say to trust your instincts on how to handle this.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2019, 11:18:15 PM »
Thanks so much and I appreciate it.

BicycleB

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2019, 07:42:58 AM »
Wow, that escalated fast. I left this thread somewhere on page 1 a few days ago. Since then dozens of posts have been sucked up discussing female safety with a clueless dude who isn't listening but thinks he is. (ETA: At the start of the thread, I also could be viewed as fitting that description. And maybe still! My apologies to all.)

@Cassie, best wishes for your safety.

@EricL, neither the start of this post nor the rest of this post is an attack, though I admit that my wording in the first paragraph might sound like one. The rest of this post will be an earnest, even tempered attempt to mansplain why your innocent attempt to be helpful has generated a seemingly endless flow of flak in your direction. Since no one has taken your side so far, I will intermittently do so, starting with your own words, which I respect as heartfelt and sincere. You were just being what you feel is a morally upstanding person, and multiple posters keep acting as if your words were negative, right?


 
What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard.  This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman.  Of feminism.  Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend.  Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another. 

Maybe I'm not seeing something.  Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby.  Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better.  In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost.  But she asked and she called him a friend.  So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends.  Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth.  Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself. 

Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.

Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?

Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."

The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know. 

What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill.  The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention.  If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them.  Hopefully he will take her advice.  Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations.  And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him  for good for her own well being.

What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out.  Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.

At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.

Cassie is going to do what she must do.  I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it.  Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb.  I only said what I would do if it was my friend.  As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill. 


I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her.  I ask that other posters stop attacking me.

Re mischaracterizing your advice and creatively misinterpreting as she 'must' confront him, I'll be fair. What you really did is state that if she is truly a friend, she should communicate that he's out of line and maybe he needs a little help.

I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy.

You then raised the emotional and moral stakes by mounting a clear if indirect criticism, by asking if Cassie was "worth being friends with."

Are you worth being friends with?

This question implicitly repeats the statement that if Cassie doesn't confront this guy, she's not being a "true" friend. I think a reasonable person reading your question would conclude that you feel she's a bad person, not worthy of friendship, if she doesn't confront this guy. In other words you're the one who started casting value judgments here, so if others sound self-righteous here, you should realize that you're the one who raised the moral stakes and the emotional temperature. Please note that this paragraph is not attacking you, it is only analyzing the words that you posted in this thread.

Yet the guy you're talking about is one who throws knives and does other stalker-who-might-become-violent type things. For her to confront him clearly carries the potential for danger. Other posters have listed sources you can refer to in order to understand the danger, such as Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear", but danger exists whether you believe it does or not. Most of the comments directed towards you upthread were to explain to you that confronting him puts her in real danger. They are not attacks, they are attempts to explain something that you appear not to understand. I suggest you read the book that posters kept referring to. This suggestion is also not an attack.

Meanwhile, you mischaracterized the remarks that were directed to you in response to your assertion that, basically, a good friend would mention something to this guy instead of just ghosting him. You thought this was a reasonable remark by a caring person, correct? The responses generally explained the situation, pointing out that the danger might last longer or be more serious than you evidently anticipated - but you characterized them as being much angrier than that. The fact that your mischaracterization included several angry-sounding exaggerations suggested that, just like the guy who threw the knife in Cassie's kitchen might do, you yourself were getting angry when being calmly confronted by facts. Do you see the irony that you are writing in this thread in a pattern appears emotionally similar to the very behavior pattern that can be dangerous to Cassie and millions of other women?

Perhaps you do not. But as a guy, I have to say that the position you have taken so far does not appear tenable. It's obvious that you meant well. But so far, you do not seem to understand why other responders feel you stepped over a line. As a practical matter, understanding why they feel that way might help you adjust your advice in future so that it is perceived as helpful.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 08:13:29 AM by BicycleB »

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2019, 02:08:56 PM »
Update:  it’s been close to 2 weeks and he texted me today. My best friend suggested I be direct instead of ghosting. So I texted him why and he apologized in text and in a voicemail.  I responded that the friendship is over. He texted back that is sad. Hopefully, that’s the end of it.

Villanelle

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2019, 03:10:49 PM »
Update:  it’s been close to 2 weeks and he texted me today. My best friend suggested I be direct instead of ghosting. So I texted him why and he apologized in text and in a voicemail.  I responded that the friendship is over. He texted back that is sad. Hopefully, that’s the end of it.

Thanks for updating.  It sounds like he took it well, and I'm glad.  Please continue to be cautious for a while, but you are most likely in the clear.

Did he offer any explanation for his ridiculously inappropriate behavior, or just an apology? 

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #105 on: August 12, 2019, 03:47:16 PM »
His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier.  He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase.  They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #106 on: August 12, 2019, 04:44:35 PM »
His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier.  He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase.  They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.

Ah, so it's a bullshit answer.  interesting.

Well, I hope that is that - but I doubt it will be that easy.

Villanelle

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #107 on: August 12, 2019, 05:48:33 PM »
His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier.  He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase.  They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.

Ah.  Annoying dog noise, so the obvious response is "hurling blades".  Mmmmhmmm. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #108 on: August 12, 2019, 05:55:49 PM »
His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier.  He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase.  They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.

Same routine for 7 years and he suddenly loses it?  If he does contact you again (and I hope he doesn't) you might point this out to him.  Excuses, excuses, or something has changed for him that what he could tolerate is something he can't any more.  And it is up to him (not you) to figure out why his tolerance level has changed.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #109 on: August 12, 2019, 07:40:38 PM »
If he contacts me I am ignoring him.  Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.

iris lily

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #110 on: August 12, 2019, 07:43:59 PM »
If he contacts me I am ignoring him.  Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.

I think that went well. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to contact you again, and maybe another time too.  But keep to your resolve to not interact with him again .

OtherJen

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #111 on: August 12, 2019, 07:53:44 PM »
If he contacts me I am ignoring him.  Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.

You may want to block him on all channels, especially if it seems like he isn’t going to let up. I hope he does the decent thing and leaves you alone.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #112 on: August 12, 2019, 07:56:27 PM »
I unfriended him on Facebook and took the code out of my front door lock. 

happy

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #113 on: August 12, 2019, 09:16:15 PM »
I agree with what you are doing, and hopefully this will be the end of an unsettling situation for you.

partgypsy

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2019, 08:15:00 AM »
That you texted him and gave him a clear answer seemed to be the right move, as there is no ambiguity in his mind where he might continue to contact you. I guess the best thing I can say, a learning experience for both of you?

The reason I spoke up as I referenced in an earlier post, I did have a friend in HS, he did some unforgivable things, I told him we were no longer friends. I ended up continuing talking to him longer than I should to explain. And it didn't make a difference. He did have a psychotic break and ended up stalking various family members for years and years. Anyways at least in my case trying to explain did not work. Only thing that worked was an active restraining order (and frequently changing our phone numbers). 

GuitarStv

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2019, 08:16:44 AM »
Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.

When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?

Incredibly, I did.  And I was small for my age.  Make of that what you wish.

Edit: @Kris I am.

And what did the bully do?

Bullies plural. In different schools in different years. It want as badly as you expect to hear.  The worst was breaking the arm.  It was a fluke and shouldn’t have happened in a grade school fight.  Fortunately the bully recovered.  I like to think he’s a better person for it.  But I was mortified at the time.

It's interesting how different people's experiences can be.  I stood up to a larger bully who was aggressive and violent towards me when I was in highschool.  Ended up knocked out, with a broken nose, ribs, and eye socket.  If someone hadn't interrupted him while he was kicking my unconscious face things likely would have turned out much worse.  My experience has led me to believe that life is not really like the movies where there's always a happy ending for those who stand up for themselves.  If you plan to take the path of violence to solve a problem, you need to have a solid strategy to kill the other person because they may be ready to do the same to you.

Villanelle

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2019, 08:47:51 AM »
Ignoring is definitely the way to go forward.  You've told him the relationship is over.  That's a finite thing.  Any additional explanations just give him traction for engagement.  If you say X, he can argue that it's really Y, or that Z mitigates X, or that you misunderstood and it was never X, or anything else.  There's no reason to give him additional ways to engage. 

Just Joe

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2019, 10:37:50 AM »
It's interesting how different people's experiences can be.  I stood up to a larger bully who was aggressive and violent towards me when I was in highschool.  Ended up knocked out, with a broken nose, ribs, and eye socket.  If someone hadn't interrupted him while he was kicking my unconscious face things likely would have turned out much worse.  My experience has led me to believe that life is not really like the movies where there's always a happy ending for those who stand up for themselves.  If you plan to take the path of violence to solve a problem, you need to have a solid strategy to kill the other person because they may be ready to do the same to you.

Like everything else it is situational. I stood up to a few bullies, fought back and life got better because they left me alone. There was one character that was downright dangerous though and he made serious threats. After high school he went on to kill a police officer.

I'll suggest avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. Talk to a school's faculty as often it is necessary to get them to take action. Some school systems have a special school for problem kids.

In 1955 a petty conflict might be solved with a busted lip and a black eye. In 2019 so much conflict as been redefined Hollywood style and people don't just hurt each other, they try to kill each other over the same petty problems.

I've never missed school. College/university yes. Never school.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2019, 10:43:56 AM »
He didn’t stalk his girlfriend when she broke up with him although she did live in a different town. He frequently looked her up on Facebook which is why I unfriended him. I really don’t expect to hear from him again.

Lulee

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #119 on: August 28, 2019, 07:11:14 AM »
How's it been going, @Cassie ?  Has he left you alone so far?

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #120 on: August 28, 2019, 09:49:58 AM »
I haven’t heard a word from him and I don’t expect to. Thanks for caring.

Metalcat

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #121 on: August 28, 2019, 10:01:24 AM »
I was actually just thinking about you this morning as well.
I was watching Big Little Lies last night and wondering if there was any fallout for you.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #122 on: August 28, 2019, 10:07:51 AM »
I have always been a big chicken so always keep the doors locked even when my husband is home. Once we lived in a town of 2k people and we were the only people that locked our doors. If someone wasn’t home people would go in their friends house and leave a note that they dropped over.  This was decades ago.  We lived in Wichita when the BTK killer was around. I was home alone with a baby and my husband was in the military and working. Someone tried to break in by opening the back door at midnight but I was awake.

BicycleB

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #123 on: August 28, 2019, 12:57:25 PM »
^What did you do??

Did they just go away and you only knew they tried because happened to be awake? (Or did you do something that made them go away!?)

Was going to post "glad your 'friend' went silent, I hope that's the end of it", but got sidetracked by BTK story. Stay safe.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #124 on: August 28, 2019, 02:27:54 PM »
I was only 20 and had a 1 year old sleeping. I was frozen with fear in the kitchen and couldn’t move. Luckily he couldn’t get in. I am not good in a crisis:))

BicycleB

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #125 on: August 28, 2019, 06:56:37 PM »
You might be better now!

I hope you never need to find out. But if you do, here's hoping it becomes "That little kid was gonna drown until that Cassie pulled him out of the pool" or some such.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #126 on: August 28, 2019, 07:10:57 PM »
Amazing enough I do not freeze when it comes to kids.  I actually rescued a neighbor child that was getting chemical burns.   I also had a weird thing happen in the 80’s and I took action.  We lived on a dead end street with 4 houses. I got to the corner to turn and I see a girl about 12 being talked to a older guy and she’s slowly backing away and it’s dark.  She looks terrified.  I backed up my huge truck and pointed it at him. He walked over and held up a police badge. He was dressed in a suit and trench coat like detectives did back in the day. He said he saw her walking down the street crying and was going to give her a ride home. His car was shabby so not like a police car. I told him that if he got any closer I was going to run him over and check out the facts later. I told the girl to get in my car and I would drive her home.  He obviously wasn’t a cop because he would have called for backup.  I just seem to suck when protecting myself.

Just Joe

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2019, 02:45:51 PM »
Cassie I want you to be our neighbor! Nerves of steel!

Those late night trespasser stories always give me a chill. Someone elsewhere on the web told one about their dogs going bonkers suddenly late one night. When they looked there was footprints in the new snow leading up to their back door. They were way out in the country so it was really an odd situation.

Despite being a big dude living in a safe place I'm still a door locker. No stranger surprises are welcome.

A million years ago I always got up at 3AM to help our bed wetter to the bathroom. Now all these years later the 3AM habit is still there. These days I wander through the main floor of the house and make sure everything is locked and TV/lights turned off. Our teens will sometimes fall asleep on the couch and wake up just enough to get to their bed leaving everything on. Our family dog is in charge of announcing unfamiliar noises.

Cassie

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Re: Letting a friend go. I
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2019, 04:45:00 PM »
I was so happy when the military transferred us. The killer was writing letters to the newspaper begging them to find him before he killed again.  He might have killed my son too.  5 years ago we inherited my son’s 80 lb Shepherd/husky that was very protective of me.  I felt safe.  But he died and I have bad asthma so can’t replace. I do have 2 5lb ankle biters:)).  I am still debating getting a security system or will I just have the big one during a false alarm.