The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Cassie on August 03, 2019, 09:10:43 PM
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We have had a friend for 15 years. I am female and married and am 65. My friend is male and has become part of our group. He had a girlfriend for 5 years and has unsuccessful in finding a new one. Once or twice a month he comes for dinner and brings a salad. He has a golden and I have 2 Maltese. A few years ago he made a joke if my husband was gone he was interested. I didn’t take it seriously. This week when he came in my dogs barked a lot and I took them all outside. When I came in he was making the salad and said this knife is dirty and threw it across my tiny kitchen. I asked if he needed a sharper knife and he said no. He got a really mean look on his face and told me to go into the other room and get away from him. When the timer went off for dinner he told me. Then he drank wine and fell asleep on the couch. He wanted to spend the night and I said no. My plan is to ghost him. It seems like he has gone off the crazy train.
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That sucks and I am sorry he chose to behave that way. I think not hanging out with people who *throw knives* is a clear and sensible boundary to draw.
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One of my friends of 30 years, who is 72, is starting to subtly slide into what looks like the beginnings of mild cognitive impairment or early dementia. You would have to know her well to even notice, but we good friends are aware. I'm not sure there are any good answers for this crummy situation. It seems wrong to back off and not be there for a friend. On the other hand, you can't really be in much of a relationship anymore either. (You sure can't socialize with someone who is throwing knives.) I would say to monitor the situation for now...maybe check with others in the group to see if they are also noticing odd behaviors and/or judgment issues. The management of the situation will probably fall onto the closest relative or the significant other...if there is one. Perhaps you could let his doctor know, if you know who it is. The MD's office won't discuss him with you, of course, but you can acknowledge that, and just say that you are a close friend and feel that you need to report the aberrant behavior, just for their information.
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Sounds like a good idea. Cancel those dinners. Were you alone with this person?
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Cassie, I hope you've talked to your DH and they are on the same page as you. It could be a bit trickier to talk to the rest of your friendship group and work out a course of action that all of you are happy with.
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I guess the other thing is to investigate a little bit to see if there is some crazy in his life. Did something happen at work? Did something happen to his family?
But even if there is some sort of reasonable explanation, you do not have to spend any time with a person whom you feel unsafe around, and it sounds like you may have felt unsafe in your own home.
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Holy fuck.
So your friend is throwing knives around and telling you what rooms in your home you're allowed to be in? Cut him out of your life entirely and be careful about locking your doors.
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I am sorry you were put in this position
Let me start off by saying in no uncertain terms, throwing knives, drinking too much, falling asleep on the sofa, and asking to stay over all seem to cross various lines (some more severe than others). And you should not be made to feel unsafe in your own house.
If this is truly a friend, I would at least try to work past this. For the sake of the relationship and the sake of an individual that I cared about. For example, if this was a one off, perhaps you and your husband can offer a chance to explain (as has been mentioned perhaps something stressful happened, though that is not an excuse) and make it clear that it was unacceptable. From there I would decide how to proceed.
Another thing to consider (I am making the assumption that this friend is a similar age as you) is an age related neurological condition or decline. Perhaps this friend has a neurological condition (diagnosed or undiagnosed) that makes them prone to emotional outburst and the mean look/anger was embarrassment/directed at himself for his behavior. Unfortunately I have seen this pattern in family where an uncontrolled emotional outburst results in frustration and anger (which can be self directed or lashed out). Some of these conditions do get worse in the evening (sundowning) perhaps coinciding with dinner. Again, I am not saying you should place yourself at risk or discomfort to accommodate them; but this would complicate things.
As has been mentioned is your husband on board with this decision, what about the group of friends?
Finally, I don't thinking ghosting will work. First you run in the same circle of friend and are likely to continue to cross paths or be mentioned to each other (or he will hear about an event at your house and assume he is invited, if he has been routinely in the past). Second, he has been in your social circle for 5 years and coming to your house twice a month for years (that is to say he knows where you live). Which brings me to the third item, if he truly gone "off the crazy train" of developed some sort of degenerative condition impacting his emotional stability you should at least be prepared for additional social boundaries to be crossed during the seperation and the subtleties of ghosting to be missed.
In the end you should and must do what is best for your safety and mental well being.
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Like others, I agree that:
1. You're not called to put yourself in danger or accept flying knives.
2. If you and husband dig into it, you may find that your friend is in increasing need, possibly due to growing mental impairment.
It may not be Alzheimer's, just a decline due to loneliness and aging and depression piling upon native detachment. That by itself can be significant and may merit some sort of assistance or intervention, if there is a worthwhile one that you can do. But it may be an underlying neurological decline. My Dad got Alzheimer's and his original crankiness grew as the disease progressed. My sister and I did intervene, making a difference in his quality of life during those years. He probably lived an extra 2 years or more to boot, because he got good care under our supervision...we didn't care for him by hand 24-7, we took charge of the case and supervised a lot, attending doctor visits, visiting the assisted living facility, etc.
Investigate safely, preferably with support or as a group activity...if you choose.
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That sounds scary!
I agree with the others -- if you've known him for 15 years and this behavior is totally out-of-character, there might be something going on with him mentally.
Maybe talk to the other friends and see if they have noticed anything like this? In the meantime, you definitely don't have to host him, but it might be worth figuring out why is acting this way.
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I would talk with your husband to ensure that if you put this boundary in place he will support you. If he is a mutual friend I would want to be on the same page!
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We don’t have the same circle of friends as when we first met. That group slowly fell apart years ago. I invited him to my parties but no one liked him enough to invite him to there’s. My husband has never really liked him and found him annoying. This is the second incident in a month. I don’t know his family or his doctor. He is still successfully self employed. Some of my friends think he is getting too attached to me and frustrated that he cannot find a partner. We are both 65. He only contacts women on dating sites 10 years younger and very pretty. He has a skewed view of his looks. He also doesn’t make much money so is limited on travel, etc. If he looked at women his own age I think he would find someone.
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Extreme personality changes can be the symptom of a brain tumor.
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I know my DIL had a baseball size brain tumor. As I said before I don’t have contact information for his family or I would give them a heads up.
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Even if, on the off chance it actually is a medical condition, you are not responsible for this person. He has twice now acted wildly inappropriately toward you. I'd stop inviting him over and if he comes over anyway, tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not welcome.
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I wouldn’t answer the door if he showed up. I doubt he will do that. He will probably call or text.
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We don’t have the same circle of friends as when we first met. That group slowly fell apart years ago. I invited him to my parties but no one liked him enough to invite him to there’s. My husband has never really liked him and found him annoying. This is the second incident in a month. I don’t know his family or his doctor. He is still successfully self employed. Some of my friends think he is getting too attached to me and frustrated that he cannot find a partner. We are both 65. He only contacts women on dating sites 10 years younger and very pretty. He has a skewed view of his looks. He also doesn’t make much money so is limited on travel, etc. If he looked at women his own age I think he would find someone.
The situation with the knife sounds really scary. Even though you don't have contact information for his family, do you perhaps have contact info. for any close friends he has?
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I don’t.
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Lizzy, I went through early dementia with a good friend of mine for 15 years until she died. We went so far as to help them stay home together with her dying husband for a few years. I became her guardian, put her in a home and drove 2 hours weekly to visit until she died. I don’t think it’s that but regardless we were really stressed for 2 years helping this couple who were much better friends. He is close to his 2 siblings so they will help if needed. I am not going down that path again.
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He may be exactly what he seems: the guy who ends up isolated through his own unreasonable behavior. Flying knives are not a good sign. Follow your own instincts.
PS. You could look up statute of limitations in your state. Throwing a knife...is that not some sort of an assult threat? I don't know if you want to, but you'd be within your rights to report it to the police. Or to tell him that you're within your rights, and that if he does it again, you will report. On those lines, I just suggest making sure you're willing to do whatever you say you're going to do.
Sorry if I'm solutioning when I should be listening. :)
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Bicycle, the last thing I want to do is add to his troubles by calling the police. We live in a big enough town that I never run into him so I don’t ever expect to see him again. He wasn’t trying to hit me with the knife but scary none the less. Plus it was just a regular not sharp knife. What was worse was the look he got on his face when he told me to get out of the kitchen. It was bad.
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Even if, on the off chance it actually is a medical condition, you are not responsible for this person. He has twice now acted wildly inappropriately toward you. I'd stop inviting him over and if he comes over anyway, tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not welcome.
This. He shouldn't get a third chance to frighten and harass you in your own home.
I recently had to go no contact with a male friend whose behavior toward me and a mutual female friend had grown increasingly inappropriate since his divorce. He had escalated to exhibiting stalking behaviors toward me and sexually harassing her. I don't wish him ill and sincerely hope he can get the help that he needs, but I can't be around him and ensure my own safety. His well-being is not my responsibility.
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Wow Jen that’s scary. Thankfully I have never been stalked. I never thought I would have this drama at my age.
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Wow Jen that’s scary. Thankfully I have never been stalked. I never thought I would have this drama at my age.
It's funny you should say that. I recently gave the bare-bones version of the story to a friend in her 70s, and she said (paraphrasing) "No offense, but I'd have thought you'd have aged out of that sort of nonsense" (I'm in my early 40s). I agreed, and then she paused and confessed that multiple male friends had propositioned her in the last few years. I guess there's no age at which we can expect true invisibility.
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We don’t have the same circle of friends as when we first met. That group slowly fell apart years ago. I invited him to my parties but no one liked him enough to invite him to there’s. My husband has never really liked him and found him annoying. This is the second incident in a month. I don’t know his family or his doctor. He is still successfully self employed. Some of my friends think he is getting too attached to me and frustrated that he cannot find a partner. We are both 65. He only contacts women on dating sites 10 years younger and very pretty. He has a skewed view of his looks. He also doesn’t make much money so is limited on travel, etc. If he looked at women his own age I think he would find someone.
That makes him sound much more like an acquaintance or a friend-of-a-friend than a friend (though I did get that tone from the original post).
Given that nature of the relationship, I (personally) would be much more willing to just let it fade away into the background than to put much effort into repairing it.
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Jen, that’s so interesting. I guess you aren’t dead until you really are:))
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I agree that regardless of the underlying reason, this is behavior from which you need to protect yourself.
If you truly, truly believe it is a sign of a medical condition, you *might* consider contacting his family if you happen to know how. But I'd only consider that if I was pretty sure that was the cause, and if you feel confident that the family will handle it delicately. (It sounds like this is not an option for you.) Otherwise, it could amplify his behavior, which is why I would likely do nothing other than distance myself from him, and perhaps warn any other women to whom you are close (and can trust) and with whom he has an association.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
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If he was a female and not interested in me I would. As a human services professional I know this situation is not safe for me.
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We don’t have the same circle of friends as when we first met. That group slowly fell apart years ago. I invited him to my parties but no one liked him enough to invite him to there’s. My husband has never really liked him and found him annoying. This is the second incident in a month. I don’t know his family or his doctor. He is still successfully self employed. Some of my friends think he is getting too attached to me and frustrated that he cannot find a partner. We are both 65. He only contacts women on dating sites 10 years younger and very pretty. He has a skewed view of his looks. He also doesn’t make much money so is limited on travel, etc. If he looked at women his own age I think he would find someone.
I'm reading this is not due to cognitive impairment, but that he has (unrealistic expectations) of you and is frustrated. I'm sorry he put this on you, but I don't think you need to put up with a friendship that no longer works. What would be best if he developed more friendships, both male and female instead of relying on you, but that's his work, not yours. Depending on how you read the situation and how he would react, you can even tell him why you are dropping the friendship, even something short like, "The last time you visited, you were not pleasant to be around and I don't feel I have much in common with you to continue this friendship." Or, you can decline/make excuses any invitations going forward.
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If he was a female and not interested in me I would. As a human services professional I know this situation is not safe for me.
It is not safe for you. I keep thinking of the incident with the knife.
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Lizzy, I went through early dementia with a good friend of mine for 15 years until she died. We went so far as to help them stay home together with her dying husband for a few years. I became her guardian, put her in a home and drove 2 hours weekly to visit until she died. I don’t think it’s that but regardless we were really stressed for 2 years helping this couple who were much better friends. He is close to his 2 siblings so they will help if needed. I am not going down that path again.
The more I read, the more this sounds like a situation where the OP needs to protect herself, her home, and her own family (i.e. husband) from this angry, frustrated guy's behavior. If there are bona fide health issues (dementia? brain tumor?) in play, then his own family would be the appropriate ones to help him. If it's just bad behavior, there's no reason to continue this relationship, and every reason to end it. I don't think there's any need for some big, dramatic confrontational scene. Just make yourselves unavailable to him.
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If he was a female and not interested in me I would. As a human services professional I know this situation is not safe for me.
So what would you advise someone else in this situation do? Then do it.
Sounds like you need to ghost him. I would not want to ever see again a "friend" who threw something at me.
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TBH, it's hard to simply ghost someone who you've known for 15 years, knows where you live, and is mentally ill.
I would write an email letting him know you felt unsafe around him, want him to get help, don't feel safe seeing him until he does, and will call the police if he knocks on your door before then.
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TBH, it's hard to simply ghost someone who you've known for 15 years, knows where you live, and is mentally ill.
I would write an email letting him know you felt unsafe around him, want him to get help, don't feel safe seeing him until he does, and will call the police if he knocks on your door before then.
I'm torn. I think sending an email can be effective, but threatening to get the police involved might actually trigger a violent episode (this can happen with restraining orders in some cases, depending on the stability of the person against whom the order was filed).
When I had to go no-contact with my ex-friend/stalker, I simply emailed to tell him that further contact would not be welcomed and any contact through any channel would be considered harassment. I left him to draw his own conclusions about the meaning of that statement. But then, he'd never been physically violent around me.
This is a tough case. It doesn't sound like he's capable of being rational when he's in an episode. Maybe ghosting would be the safest option for Cassie, rather than initiating further contact.
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Yeah, it doesn't sound like you are close enough to him to warrant involvement with his health care.
Ghosting may be your best option. If you initiate some sort of closure conversation to explain why you don't want to see him anymore, the convo could make him angry and aggressive, whereas ghosting is just a fade to black with no more contact. It seems safer for you in this situation.
You can save full-on "confrontation mode" for if he starts harassing you or showing up at your house uninvited.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
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We have had a friend for 15 years. I am female and married and am 65. My friend is male and has become part of our group. He had a girlfriend for 5 years and has unsuccessful in finding a new one. Once or twice a month he comes for dinner and brings a salad. He has a golden and I have 2 Maltese. A few years ago he made a joke if my husband was gone he was interested. I didn’t take it seriously. This week when he came in my dogs barked a lot and I took them all outside. When I came in he was making the salad and said this knife is dirty and threw it across my tiny kitchen. I asked if he needed a sharper knife and he said no. He got a really mean look on his face and told me to go into the other room and get away from him. When the timer went off for dinner he told me. Then he drank wine and fell asleep on the couch. He wanted to spend the night and I said no. My plan is to ghost him. It seems like he has gone off the crazy train.
It sounds like he may be a narcissist who’s low on supply. I think society looks the other way a lot with those who we consider grumpy old men. Tell him to leave you alone and be glad he’s out of your life, they don’t get better as they age.
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Once again, Villanelle has articulated clearly what I have been attempting to write. It is not on Cassie that her friend broke the social contract, he is not her job to fix and she is under no obligation to stay friends with him simply because he has already driven everyone else away.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Having a friend go with you is a great plan! I assume that friend is going to stay with you 24/7 and has the skilsl to keep you safe, right?
I was stalked by an Ex. I was deeply, deeply worried about his behavior (which included things like breaking in to the house where I lived because he knew where the spare key was, and stealing photos, and other charming behaviors). I didn't report it to his family because I felt fairly certain it would only escalate his behavior.
If in your world that makes me not worth dating, I can live with that.
This man hurled a knife! HE is the one who ended the friendship, the moment that and his other creepy, inappropriate behavior happened. That's a de facto termination of friendship, and, as far as I'm concerned, releases someone from then risking her own safety and well-being by poking the hornet's nest that is clearly his life. he's clearly unstable. he's shown that. So the risk to her well-being is not created from thin air. HIS behavior led to that fear. His wildly inappropriate, not friend-worthy behavior.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Seriously? Some things, you lose your friend card. How he's acting is one of them. Just because he's such a jerk he's driven everyone else away, doesn't mean it's now her job as last man standing to "save" him. Especially if he's fixating on her.
The most id say, if he calls or tries to get in touch with her, the husband talks to him, explains she doesn't want to talk to him and he should get help.
And yeah I had a friend in hs, broke the friendship, and when I said we are no longer friends he said but you can't stop being my friend! We will always be friends. He ended up stalking me and other members of my family with phone calls, trespassing, and even breaking into my family's house. I'm not saying this guy will do this but always be someone's friend no matter what is bs.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Seriously? Some things, you lose your friend card. How he's acting is one of them. Just because he's such a jerk he's driven everyone else away, doesn't mean it's now her job as last man standing to "save" him. Especially if he's fixating on her.
The most id say, if he calls or tries to get in touch with her, the husband talks to him, explains she doesn't want to talk to him and he should get help for whatever is going on with him.
This. I can speak from personal experience: the fixation is creepy and scary, and any further contact feeds it. If her friend contacts Cassie to ask why he hasn't heard from her, a blunt, honest answer and request for no more contact is fine. But she's not being a bad friend if she doesn't make the next contact to someone who threw knives and scared her in her own home.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Eric, you are a man. This former friend is a man. Cassie is a woman, which means she is physically more vulnerable to this former friend. Please notice that all the posters pointing out the dangers and suggesting ghosting him are women. Maybe we are seeing things in this situation that you are not? As in, he is a potential danger to her? And he broke the social contract first.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Seriously? Some things, you lose your friend card. How he's acting is one of them. Just because he's such a jerk he's driven everyone else away, doesn't mean it's now her job as last man standing to "save" him. Especially if he's fixating on her.
The most id say, if he calls or tries to get in touch with her, the husband talks to him, explains she doesn't want to talk to him and he should get help.
And yeah I had a friend in hs, broke the friendship, and when I said we are no longer friends he said but you can't stop being my friend! We will always be friends. He ended up stalking me and other members of my family with phone calls, trespassing, and even breaking into my family's house. I'm not saying this guy will do this but always be someone's friend no matter what is bs.
Seriously. If he's a friend it's not too much to inquire why he's acting weird and suggest he get checked. But I'm not saying approach him while he's using a chain saw or while traveling down a dark alley for Christ sake. I'm not even saying the OP should foot the bill for his radical surgery if he's got a tumor acting on the aggression area of his brain or wait on him hand and foot while he convalesces.
Maybe I read too much into the relationship in the post. Maybe he's just a turd who had one good cup of tea conversation before losing it and she just needs to scrape him off her boot.
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@EricL please take this in the gentlest way possible but what you are doing here is really common in male/female dynamics. Women are expected to extend endless sympathy and care even in situations where it puts them in danger, if they are hurt as a result then they should have cut things off earlier, and when the slightest hint of a boundary is suggested or defended then the hyperbole comes out. "Are you worth being friends with" "don't approach him while he's using a chain saw" "scrape him off her boot"
You can flounce off if you like, but it's not something that is new to any woman. Not the sitch with the friend or what you are doing here.
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Eric, you are a man. This former friend is a man. Cassie is a woman, which means she is physically more vulnerable to this former friend. Please notice that all the posters pointing out the dangers and suggesting ghosting him are women. Maybe we are seeing things in this situation that you are not? As in, he is a potential danger to her? And he broke the social contract first.
What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
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What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
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I really appreciate all the supportive posts. I don’t really think men can appreciate how vulnerable it is to be a woman. I have always went above and beyond for people. However, for some reason he is fixated on me and I am scared. My mom said if you ignore your intuition you will be sorry. I am trying to listen.
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What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill. The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention. If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them. Hopefully he will take her advice. Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations. And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him for good for her own well being.
What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out. Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.
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What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill. The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention. If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them. Hopefully he will take her advice. Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations. And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him for good for her own well being.
What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out. Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.
At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.
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@Cassie , if you haven't read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker, you may find it useful. One of the main themes is "trust your instincts."
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What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill. The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention. If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them. Hopefully he will take her advice. Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations. And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him for good for her own well being.
What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out. Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.
At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.
Cassie is going to do what she must do. I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it. Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb. I only said what I would do if it was my friend. As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill.
I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her. I ask that other posters stop attacking me.
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The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
Where did she ask? This was posted in "off topic" not "ask a mustachian" and if you read her posts here, not a single one was really asking anything.
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Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.
When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?
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What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill. The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention. If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them. Hopefully he will take her advice. Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations. And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him for good for her own well being.
What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out. Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.
At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.
Cassie is going to do what she must do. I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it. Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb. I only said what I would do if it was my friend. As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill.
I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her. I ask that other posters stop attacking me.
EricL: Are you worth being friends with?
Also EricL: I hold no judgment.
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Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.
When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?
Incredibly, I did. And I was small for my age. Make of that what you wish.
Edit: @Kris I am.
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Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.
When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?
Incredibly, I did. And I was small for my age. Make of that what you wish.
Edit: @Kris I am.
And what did the bully do?
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I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy. If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost. Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.
Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger.
If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy. But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior. If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.
You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend. I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to. But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health. It might save their life. Hell, it might save other people’s lives.
I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either. But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?
Eric, you are a man. This former friend is a man. Cassie is a woman, which means she is physically more vulnerable to this former friend. Please notice that all the posters pointing out the dangers and suggesting ghosting him are women. Maybe we are seeing things in this situation that you are not? As in, he is a potential danger to her? And he broke the social contract first.
What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
It's not putting women out as frail and weak to say, "you don't own risking your safety to anyone who has behaved wildly inappropriate. You don't have to be the nice girl if you feel there is risk in doing so."
That's a risk of empowerment. For me, where the male/female dynamic comes in to place is that some men do feel entitled to a woman's attentions and will absolutley snap whtn they don't get it. As such, it's something from which women need to protect themselves.
This guy is not her friend. He stopped being her friend WHEN THE THREW A KNIFE!
You are throwing out these glib comments about not confronting him while he's holding a weapon. The entire point is that if he doesn't take it well, he can find her at any time. It's not as though he disappears from existence so as long as she is safe when she addresses him, so he could never be a threat to her again.
Are you aware of some of the interesting research on restraining orders? (No, I'm not going to go dig it up, even though yes, I am citing it.) Many experts actually recommend NOT getting a restraining order because once someone has snapped to the point of violence, it's not especially likely that the threat of an additional charge of violating an order of protection is going to be a deterrent. But the act of receiving a restrainign order can absolutely enrage them and make things worse.
Addressing his behave is, in some ways, comparable to getting a restraining order. Sure, it could make a rational person say, "Oh shit, I really have been behaving badly and need to stop". Or if could make someone who is already unstable feel humiliated, insulted, and rejected. Not a good combo. Even if he's not clutching a chain saw at the moment of the conversation.
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Cassie has been trying to be nice by inviting this guy over for years, even though no one else in the social circle likes him much, and Cassie's husband finds him annoying.
Her kindness has been repaid by him inappropriately hitting on her -- and now, aggressive outbursts.
At this point she should trust her gut about this guy. He seems to be harboring frustration (especially about women), and he is prone to snapping. Why poke the bear?
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Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.
When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?
Incredibly, I did. And I was small for my age. Make of that what you wish.
Edit: @Kris I am.
And what did the bully do?
Bullies plural. In different schools in different years. It want as badly as you expect to hear. The worst was breaking the arm. It was a fluke and shouldn’t have happened in a grade school fight. Fortunately the bully recovered. I like to think he’s a better person for it. But I was mortified at the time.
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Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.
I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there). I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.
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Yes, like Partgypsy says it is a balancing thing. Cassie's needs to be safe first of all.
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Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.
I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there). I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.
Jesus. I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken. (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.) Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him. I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health. Under controlled circumstances if necessary. "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends. And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice. I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend.
I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here.
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Yes, in my experience a man who is not respecting your boundaries does not get the message unless you go full scorched earth and cut off all contact. It only gets worse if you try to reason with them. In retrospect, I would always have listened to my gut sooner and not tried to give them a chance at behaving like a rational being. It doesn’t work.
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I read the Gift of Fear 25 years ago and it was excellent. Eric mentioned intervening with friends but we have no mutual friends. It’s not my job to fix him and in the past if I thought a friend needed help and suggested it never went well. In 2 months my husband will be out of town for 3 weeks and I will be alone. I am not going to do anything to further inflame this situation. I care deeply about my friends but sometimes go over and above for people I feel sorry for or know that they are lonely. This time I am just looking out for myself.
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Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.
I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there). I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.
Jesus. I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken. (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.) Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him. I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health. Under controlled circumstances if necessary. "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends. And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice. I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend.
I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here.
I've been reading along and thought I would offer some insight for you.
You've said a lot of things that are upsetting to women who have experienced male violence.
You can either accept that and try to understand it, or you can continue to dig your heels in.
Contrary to what you think, you are not being misunderstood, but you are indeed misunderstanding the affect your words are having.
I'm not mad at you, or trying to attack you, or even a remotely sensitive person, but your words have been uncomfortable to read, as someone who has experienced male violence.
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I read the Gift of Fear 25 years ago and it was excellent. Eric mentioned intervening with friends but we have no mutual friends. It’s not my job to fix him and in the past if I thought a friend needed help and suggested it never went well. In 2 months my husband will be out of town for 3 weeks and I will be alone. I am not going to do anything to further inflame this situation. I care deeply about my friends but sometimes go over and above for people I feel sorry for or know that they are lonely. This time I am just looking out for myself.
Trust your instincts, I can't emphasize that enough.
If you feel ghosting will be the least triggering, then do that. If you feel a firm email is best, do that. Do whatever you feel will make you safest, but do not hesitate to let the police know NOW about what happened. You don't have to press charges, but just make them aware.
There's a man in my apartment building who recently said something in French to me in the elevator that was disturbing. I pretended I didn't speak French and he started repeating himself in English and then said "you know what, nevermind".
I immediately alerted the super and called the police officer that I dealt with for a stalker. It's not so much to do anything about it as to make sure that if it's happening to others that the police can quickly see a pattern.
Again, trust your instincts.
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Thanks M. I think ghosting is safest at this point.
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Thanks M. I think ghosting is safest at this point.
It usually is.
The ones who escalate in response to ghosting will usually escalate no matter what you do.
Contact is best when you know you have no option to avoid them, as it can help prevent the initial conflict being in person, which is almost always worse.
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I will never run into him as the town is big and the events we go to he doesn’t. We have never run into him anywhere.
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I will never run into him as the town is big and the events we go to he doesn’t. We have never run into him anywhere.
Ghosting it is then.
Any way someone can stay with you while DH is away?
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Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.
I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there). I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.
Jesus. I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken. (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.) Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him. I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health. Under controlled circumstances if necessary. "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends. And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice. I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend.
I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here.
As I've brought up several times, how do you control circumstances beyond the initial conversation? You think that someone who is inspired to commit violence doesn't have the patience to wait a few hours or a couple days? It's exceptionally patronizing to simply suggest that she not confront him when he's "holding a chainsaw", as though he couldn't come to her house that evening or the next day? That's the concern and the thing against which it is almost impossible to meaningfully guard one's self. "In case I need to spell it out".
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No one is going to stay 3 weeks. I had a big protective dog but he died. I do have 2 little yappers . I may get a security system.
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@EricL please take this in the gentlest way possible but what you are doing here is really common in male/female dynamics. Women are expected to extend endless sympathy and care even in situations where it puts them in danger, if they are hurt as a result then they should have cut things off earlier, and when the slightest hint of a boundary is suggested or defended then the hyperbole comes out. "Are you worth being friends with" "don't approach him while he's using a chain saw" "scrape him off her boot"
You can flounce off if you like, but it's not something that is new to any woman. Not the sitch with the friend or what you are doing here.
This is so spot on. I am standing and applauding !
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I am in the middle of reading Invisible Women: Data bias in a world designed for men. I recommend Eric read it. Anyone, really, but especially the demographic the world is basically designed for - white men, and more specifically young white men. They are the ones data is collected on, they are the ones the world is designed for. And basically they do not notice it, any more than a fish notices water.
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No one is going to stay 3 weeks. I had a big protective dog but he died. I do have 2 little yappers . I may get a security system.
Maybe one with an audible alarm (louder than the dogs). Also some video surveillance (digital, hooks to computer, motion activated). Also good security lights. Do contact the police for extra patrols as well. It doesn’t have to be the same person staying each night, do you have a neighbor or 2 that you trust that you could alert if he shows up.
would it help to check in to this forum (not necessarily this thread) or a contact person (DM) here every day? I’d feel better knowing you are OK.
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@EricL please take this in the gentlest way possible but what you are doing here is really common in male/female dynamics. Women are expected to extend endless sympathy and care even in situations where it puts them in danger, if they are hurt as a result then they should have cut things off earlier, and when the slightest hint of a boundary is suggested or defended then the hyperbole comes out. "Are you worth being friends with" "don't approach him while he's using a chain saw" "scrape him off her boot"
You can flounce off if you like, but it's not something that is new to any woman. Not the sitch with the friend or what you are doing here.
This is so spot on. I am standing and applauding !
Yes. I've been in this dynamic multiple times. It floored me how much certain people expected me to put up with in order to "be nice" when there was more than a hint of physical danger.
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It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.
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G dog, I appreciate the support. I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.
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G dog, I appreciate the support. I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.
That is so good to hear. And wee yappy dogs are an excellent alarm system.
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G dog, I appreciate the support. I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.
That is so good to hear. And wee yappy dogs are an excellent alarm system.
They are! “Look, a leaf! / squirrel / another dog / bird / cat / not sure but just in case / bad guy / good guy / kid / bicycle/ ......”
I’ve found with strangers that those that are up to no good are still often put off by even a small happy dog. Though this guy knows the dogs, which changes everything.
I’m glad your friend will check on you. Also please put her on speed dial and call if he shows up at your place (or call 911 or non-emergency police line).
Most likely nothing will happen, but it helps to plan for the “just in case” scenarios.
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He knows my husband is going to the graduation but has no clue when he’s going. He’s flying so his car will be here. They bark at everyone that comes in including us. They are dumb dumbs:)). They are only 5 lbs. The support on this forum is awesome. I think men in general don’t understand. When I left my ex I moved across the country because he had said I would never leave him. After 22 years I was afraid and my mom was terrified for me. 22 years later I am still alive. But I took a lot of precautions.
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It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.
I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.
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It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.
I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.
Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood. Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help. Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".
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It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.
I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.
Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood. Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help. Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".
You're absolutely right about that. It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy." I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in. Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed. I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before. Even fierce and bitter ones. But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.
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res ispa loquitur.
I tried.
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G dog, I appreciate the support. I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.
That's a good plan. I hope it's uneventful.
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You're absolutely right about that. It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy." I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in. Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed. I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before. Even fierce and bitter ones. But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.
As a guy, I'm happy to have this conversation with you in a different thread, but stop making Cassie's thread all about yourself. Playing a victim card here while misrepresenting what you said (which is clearly visible to everyone in the thread) is juvenile.
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You're absolutely right about that. It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy." I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in. Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed. I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before. Even fierce and bitter ones. But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.
As a guy, I'm happy to have this conversation with you elsewhere, but stop making Cassie's thread all about yourself. Playing a victim card here while misrepresenting what you said (which is clearly visible to everyone in the thread) is juvenile.
If we're taking this outside, let's take it outside! You'll find me in the Monster Energy Drink shirt drinking a Red Bull.
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I am so sorry you're going through this. The guy sounds like he's losing it, and while you've been close in proximity, you don't seem like you'd have chosen to hang with this dude.
I've had to let some friendships go over the past few years (5 years now; can't believe it's been that long), and I still think about them, but found that I was pretty much immediately better off. Especially when I started putting that time into other people/things.
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Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons? It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of. It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.
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It doesn't sound like he was in the habit of inviting you to things. Therefore, I think that you probably won't hear from him again if you ghost him.
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Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons? It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of. It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.
Or if she's not quite ready to take that step (I'm not there yet myself), a pepper spray canister.
I run a moderate risk of running into my ex-friend/stalker due to mutual acquaintances and community events, and the pepper spray on my key-ring means that if he approaches me when I'm alone—his preferred mode of harassing me, particularly in parking lots—I have a better chance of being able to get away from him as my keys would be in hand.
Cameras on the house may also be useful (we installed one that covers the front of our property), as well as an alarm system if it seems he might escalate.
Cassie, whether or not you do ever decide to contact him again, there's no reason to rush the decision and certainly not while you'll be home alone. I think you're doing a smart thing by having people check on you while your husband is gone.
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Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons? It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of. It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.
I'll take this one. Perhaps the lady doesn't want to own a gun. That is a very personal decision. I think for many people, adding a gun in the mix does not increase safety and also elevates the stress levels.
I'll second the recommendation for the book, The Gift of Fear. Also, how responsive are your local police? Make sure your home is secure and do not open the door for this person. Do not answer phone calls. Be very careful upon entry and exit of your home. Just basic situational awareness.
I hope all is well and your life is uneventful. Keep your phone charged and handy at all times, just in case. Stay in touch with us here, too, if you don't mind!
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Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons? It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of. It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.
I'll take this one. Perhaps the lady doesn't want to own a gun. That is a very personal decision.
Lol captain obvious over here
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It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.
I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.
Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood. Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help. Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".
You're absolutely right about that. It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy." I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in. Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed. I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before. Even fierce and bitter ones. But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.
YOu didn't just say that it might be good idea as a friend to try to help. You said she should not approach him while he holds a chainsaw, which is incredibly patronizing (since you bring up how it feels to be patronized) and that she might well not be worth being friends with if she doesn't do that.
Can you not see how that goes well beyond, "it might be a good idea, as a friend, to try to approach him"?
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No guns for me as I would probably shoot my husband or one of my kids. He often initiated contact by saying let’s have dinner and play cards. I am just hoping that doesn’t happen. I would sometimes invite him and occasionally he brought a pizza. Villanelle , thanks for explaining to Eric better than I could how his comments made me feel. We have seen our friends through illness to death and have helped care for them. I have always been a good friend. I have severed a few friends when it became unhealthy. I have put up with more crap than most people.
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No guns for me as I would probably shoot my husband or one of my kids. He often initiated contact by saying let’s have dinner and play cards. I am just hoping that doesn’t happen. I would sometimes invite him and occasionally he brought a pizza. Villanelle , thanks for explaining to Eric better than I could how his comments made me feel. We have seen our friends through illness to death and have helped care for them. I have always been a good friend. I have severed a few friends when it became unhealthy. I have put up with more crap than most people.
If he contacts you, you're well within your rights to tell him that his previous behavior made you feel unsafe and you are not comfortable spending time with him. What he does with that information is up to him. You definitely don't need to tell him whether your husband is home or not. If your husband is not home, maybe see if another friend can stay with you for a few days after you respond to this man. And keep some form of physical protection (pepper spray, baseball bat, etc.) with you at home.
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Yes if he contacts me I will text him that. I am not taking phone calls. Hopefully he noticed I unfriended him on Facebook because that should give him the hint.
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I live alone and find that I feel safest by keeping the doors locked at all time so I control entry to my apartment. Maybe do that while your husband is away and if you see him coming, don't answer. I've dodged unwelcome visitors by saying I was in a part of the house where I couldn't hear them (it's a weird set up and you actually can miss people knocking if you're not in the right area) and so far, no one's gotten bent out of shape over it.
So sorry that you're going through this. You have always been one of the wisest posters on these boards IMO and so I'd agree with the others who say to trust your instincts on how to handle this.
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Thanks so much and I appreciate it.
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Wow, that escalated fast. I left this thread somewhere on page 1 a few days ago. Since then dozens of posts have been sucked up discussing female safety with a clueless dude who isn't listening but thinks he is. (ETA: At the start of the thread, I also could be viewed as fitting that description. And maybe still! My apologies to all.)
@Cassie, best wishes for your safety.
@EricL, neither the start of this post nor the rest of this post is an attack, though I admit that my wording in the first paragraph might sound like one. The rest of this post will be an earnest, even tempered attempt to mansplain why your innocent attempt to be helpful has generated a seemingly endless flow of flak in your direction. Since no one has taken your side so far, I will intermittently do so, starting with your own words, which I respect as heartfelt and sincere. You were just being what you feel is a morally upstanding person, and multiple posters keep acting as if your words were negative, right?
What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard. This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman. Of feminism. Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend. Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby. Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better. In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost. But she asked and she called him a friend. So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends. Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth. Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.
Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.
Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?
Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."
The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know.
What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill. The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention. If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them. Hopefully he will take her advice. Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations. And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him for good for her own well being.
What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out. Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.
At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.
Cassie is going to do what she must do. I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it. Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb. I only said what I would do if it was my friend. As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill.
I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her. I ask that other posters stop attacking me.
Re mischaracterizing your advice and creatively misinterpreting as she 'must' confront him, I'll be fair. What you really did is state that if she is truly a friend, she should communicate that he's out of line and maybe he needs a little help.
I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy.
You then raised the emotional and moral stakes by mounting a clear if indirect criticism, by asking if Cassie was "worth being friends with."
Are you worth being friends with?
This question implicitly repeats the statement that if Cassie doesn't confront this guy, she's not being a "true" friend. I think a reasonable person reading your question would conclude that you feel she's a bad person, not worthy of friendship, if she doesn't confront this guy. In other words you're the one who started casting value judgments here, so if others sound self-righteous here, you should realize that you're the one who raised the moral stakes and the emotional temperature. Please note that this paragraph is not attacking you, it is only analyzing the words that you posted in this thread.
Yet the guy you're talking about is one who throws knives and does other stalker-who-might-become-violent type things. For her to confront him clearly carries the potential for danger. Other posters have listed sources you can refer to in order to understand the danger, such as Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear", but danger exists whether you believe it does or not. Most of the comments directed towards you upthread were to explain to you that confronting him puts her in real danger. They are not attacks, they are attempts to explain something that you appear not to understand. I suggest you read the book that posters kept referring to. This suggestion is also not an attack.
Meanwhile, you mischaracterized the remarks that were directed to you in response to your assertion that, basically, a good friend would mention something to this guy instead of just ghosting him. You thought this was a reasonable remark by a caring person, correct? The responses generally explained the situation, pointing out that the danger might last longer or be more serious than you evidently anticipated - but you characterized them as being much angrier than that. The fact that your mischaracterization included several angry-sounding exaggerations suggested that, just like the guy who threw the knife in Cassie's kitchen might do, you yourself were getting angry when being calmly confronted by facts. Do you see the irony that you are writing in this thread in a pattern appears emotionally similar to the very behavior pattern that can be dangerous to Cassie and millions of other women?
Perhaps you do not. But as a guy, I have to say that the position you have taken so far does not appear tenable. It's obvious that you meant well. But so far, you do not seem to understand why other responders feel you stepped over a line. As a practical matter, understanding why they feel that way might help you adjust your advice in future so that it is perceived as helpful.
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Update: it’s been close to 2 weeks and he texted me today. My best friend suggested I be direct instead of ghosting. So I texted him why and he apologized in text and in a voicemail. I responded that the friendship is over. He texted back that is sad. Hopefully, that’s the end of it.
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Update: it’s been close to 2 weeks and he texted me today. My best friend suggested I be direct instead of ghosting. So I texted him why and he apologized in text and in a voicemail. I responded that the friendship is over. He texted back that is sad. Hopefully, that’s the end of it.
Thanks for updating. It sounds like he took it well, and I'm glad. Please continue to be cautious for a while, but you are most likely in the clear.
Did he offer any explanation for his ridiculously inappropriate behavior, or just an apology?
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His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier. He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase. They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.
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His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier. He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase. They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.
Ah, so it's a bullshit answer. interesting.
Well, I hope that is that - but I doubt it will be that easy.
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His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier. He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase. They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.
Ah. Annoying dog noise, so the obvious response is "hurling blades". Mmmmhmmm.
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His explanation was that the barking of my 2 little dogs greatly disturbed him. Well we used to have 4 and it was noisier. He brings his golden who gets very excited and runs and my dogs chase. They all run to the back door and I take them outside until they all calm down. It’s been the same routine for 7 years.
Same routine for 7 years and he suddenly loses it? If he does contact you again (and I hope he doesn't) you might point this out to him. Excuses, excuses, or something has changed for him that what he could tolerate is something he can't any more. And it is up to him (not you) to figure out why his tolerance level has changed.
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If he contacts me I am ignoring him. Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.
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If he contacts me I am ignoring him. Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.
I think that went well. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to contact you again, and maybe another time too. But keep to your resolve to not interact with him again .
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If he contacts me I am ignoring him. Who goes to anyone’s house and acts like that. No one.
You may want to block him on all channels, especially if it seems like he isn’t going to let up. I hope he does the decent thing and leaves you alone.
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I unfriended him on Facebook and took the code out of my front door lock.
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I agree with what you are doing, and hopefully this will be the end of an unsettling situation for you.
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That you texted him and gave him a clear answer seemed to be the right move, as there is no ambiguity in his mind where he might continue to contact you. I guess the best thing I can say, a learning experience for both of you?
The reason I spoke up as I referenced in an earlier post, I did have a friend in HS, he did some unforgivable things, I told him we were no longer friends. I ended up continuing talking to him longer than I should to explain. And it didn't make a difference. He did have a psychotic break and ended up stalking various family members for years and years. Anyways at least in my case trying to explain did not work. Only thing that worked was an active restraining order (and frequently changing our phone numbers).
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Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.
When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?
Incredibly, I did. And I was small for my age. Make of that what you wish.
Edit: @Kris I am.
And what did the bully do?
Bullies plural. In different schools in different years. It want as badly as you expect to hear. The worst was breaking the arm. It was a fluke and shouldn’t have happened in a grade school fight. Fortunately the bully recovered. I like to think he’s a better person for it. But I was mortified at the time.
It's interesting how different people's experiences can be. I stood up to a larger bully who was aggressive and violent towards me when I was in highschool. Ended up knocked out, with a broken nose, ribs, and eye socket. If someone hadn't interrupted him while he was kicking my unconscious face things likely would have turned out much worse. My experience has led me to believe that life is not really like the movies where there's always a happy ending for those who stand up for themselves. If you plan to take the path of violence to solve a problem, you need to have a solid strategy to kill the other person because they may be ready to do the same to you.
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Ignoring is definitely the way to go forward. You've told him the relationship is over. That's a finite thing. Any additional explanations just give him traction for engagement. If you say X, he can argue that it's really Y, or that Z mitigates X, or that you misunderstood and it was never X, or anything else. There's no reason to give him additional ways to engage.
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It's interesting how different people's experiences can be. I stood up to a larger bully who was aggressive and violent towards me when I was in highschool. Ended up knocked out, with a broken nose, ribs, and eye socket. If someone hadn't interrupted him while he was kicking my unconscious face things likely would have turned out much worse. My experience has led me to believe that life is not really like the movies where there's always a happy ending for those who stand up for themselves. If you plan to take the path of violence to solve a problem, you need to have a solid strategy to kill the other person because they may be ready to do the same to you.
Like everything else it is situational. I stood up to a few bullies, fought back and life got better because they left me alone. There was one character that was downright dangerous though and he made serious threats. After high school he went on to kill a police officer.
I'll suggest avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. Talk to a school's faculty as often it is necessary to get them to take action. Some school systems have a special school for problem kids.
In 1955 a petty conflict might be solved with a busted lip and a black eye. In 2019 so much conflict as been redefined Hollywood style and people don't just hurt each other, they try to kill each other over the same petty problems.
I've never missed school. College/university yes. Never school.
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He didn’t stalk his girlfriend when she broke up with him although she did live in a different town. He frequently looked her up on Facebook which is why I unfriended him. I really don’t expect to hear from him again.
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How's it been going, @Cassie ? Has he left you alone so far?
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I haven’t heard a word from him and I don’t expect to. Thanks for caring.
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I was actually just thinking about you this morning as well.
I was watching Big Little Lies last night and wondering if there was any fallout for you.
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I have always been a big chicken so always keep the doors locked even when my husband is home. Once we lived in a town of 2k people and we were the only people that locked our doors. If someone wasn’t home people would go in their friends house and leave a note that they dropped over. This was decades ago. We lived in Wichita when the BTK killer was around. I was home alone with a baby and my husband was in the military and working. Someone tried to break in by opening the back door at midnight but I was awake.
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^What did you do??
Did they just go away and you only knew they tried because happened to be awake? (Or did you do something that made them go away!?)
Was going to post "glad your 'friend' went silent, I hope that's the end of it", but got sidetracked by BTK story. Stay safe.
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I was only 20 and had a 1 year old sleeping. I was frozen with fear in the kitchen and couldn’t move. Luckily he couldn’t get in. I am not good in a crisis:))
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You might be better now!
I hope you never need to find out. But if you do, here's hoping it becomes "That little kid was gonna drown until that Cassie pulled him out of the pool" or some such.
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Amazing enough I do not freeze when it comes to kids. I actually rescued a neighbor child that was getting chemical burns. I also had a weird thing happen in the 80’s and I took action. We lived on a dead end street with 4 houses. I got to the corner to turn and I see a girl about 12 being talked to a older guy and she’s slowly backing away and it’s dark. She looks terrified. I backed up my huge truck and pointed it at him. He walked over and held up a police badge. He was dressed in a suit and trench coat like detectives did back in the day. He said he saw her walking down the street crying and was going to give her a ride home. His car was shabby so not like a police car. I told him that if he got any closer I was going to run him over and check out the facts later. I told the girl to get in my car and I would drive her home. He obviously wasn’t a cop because he would have called for backup. I just seem to suck when protecting myself.
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Cassie I want you to be our neighbor! Nerves of steel!
Those late night trespasser stories always give me a chill. Someone elsewhere on the web told one about their dogs going bonkers suddenly late one night. When they looked there was footprints in the new snow leading up to their back door. They were way out in the country so it was really an odd situation.
Despite being a big dude living in a safe place I'm still a door locker. No stranger surprises are welcome.
A million years ago I always got up at 3AM to help our bed wetter to the bathroom. Now all these years later the 3AM habit is still there. These days I wander through the main floor of the house and make sure everything is locked and TV/lights turned off. Our teens will sometimes fall asleep on the couch and wake up just enough to get to their bed leaving everything on. Our family dog is in charge of announcing unfamiliar noises.
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I was so happy when the military transferred us. The killer was writing letters to the newspaper begging them to find him before he killed again. He might have killed my son too. 5 years ago we inherited my son’s 80 lb Shepherd/husky that was very protective of me. I felt safe. But he died and I have bad asthma so can’t replace. I do have 2 5lb ankle biters:)). I am still debating getting a security system or will I just have the big one during a false alarm.