Author Topic: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?  (Read 174212 times)

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #550 on: January 10, 2023, 10:36:08 PM »
Yea the idealist in me hates to see any launch fail (except maybe one from N. Korea), but the RKLB investor wants them all to burn haha.

By all accounts, Virgin Orbit is on the verge of bankruptcy:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/01/even-before-mondays-launch-failure-virgin-orbits-finances-were-dismal/

Between them and Astra, I wonder which company will implode first? Arguably, Astra is already in the process of imploding, given that they canceled their rocket program.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2023, 10:42:38 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #551 on: January 11, 2023, 01:21:16 AM »
With Astra and Virgin Orbit on the ropes, at this point is it safe to say that Rocket Lab is on the verge of winning the small launch market? Nobody else seems close to having a viable Electron-class launcher. Firefly Alpha, Terran One, and RS1 might yet pan out but those rockets are a size up, and priced accordingly.

Furthermore, with a rocket like Electron needing 16 launches per year to be profitable, it seems unlikely that any other company is going to step in and try to take Electron's market share. The cost of developing a competitor to Electron is simply too high, the return on investment too low, and just getting to a break-even point seems almost insurmountable. Astra and Virgin Orbit have spent well over a billion dollars developing their rockets, and they aren't even close to being able to successfully launch 16 rockets in a year. Honestly, I think the most probable outcome is that both of those companies will go bankrupt before they manage to launch another 16 rockets, combined. I just can't see how anyone can build a competitor for Electron at this point.

That being said, although Electron's market share seems very safe, it's never going to be particularly profitable, nor is it going to make Rocket Lab into a company worth tens of billions of dollars. Nevertheless, Electron gives Rocket Lab plenty of experience, launch heritage, and industry connections which is invaluable.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 02:44:06 PM by Herbert Derp »

lemonlyman

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #552 on: January 11, 2023, 08:24:28 AM »
I don't know anything about this company, but I clicked on the thread and checked out the financials. Compared to the previous year: Revenue up 300%+, Positive GM of 12% compared to -2%, and Operating Expenses only increased 46% for that 300% Revenue growth.

Like I said, I don't know anything about the company or how it can continue to improve its numbers, but that's certainly a positive move.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #553 on: January 20, 2023, 02:14:54 AM »
Rocket Lab has posted some more progress on the Neutron tank:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1615511198879059968

That’s a lot of carbon fiber!

BicycleB

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #554 on: January 20, 2023, 09:33:04 AM »
Amidst a general decision to sell most of my stocks (a little too much market timing, maybe!), sold about half of my RKLB position yesterday.

Still viewing long term as positive and price as not crazy, but after multiple dramatic up and down swings between $3.70 and 7.10 (mostly 3.70 and 5.xx), the price of 5.xx a couple days ago made me consider selling some in hopes of buying cheaper later. By the time I sold yesterday, price had fallen to 4.80ish, which substantially increased my realized loss compared to my overall buyin price of 5.50ish.

Realized losses in $700 neighborhood.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #555 on: January 20, 2023, 04:10:19 PM »
Rocket Lab’s Q4 2022 earnings call is scheduled for February 28th:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rocket-lab-announces-date-fourth-211500026.html

I’m not expecting that much from this call but will be good to see what progress they have made.

alcon835

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #556 on: January 22, 2023, 08:49:48 AM »
Amidst a general decision to sell most of my stocks (a little too much market timing, maybe!), sold about half of my RKLB position yesterday.

Still viewing long term as positive and price as not crazy, but after multiple dramatic up and down swings between $3.70 and 7.10 (mostly 3.70 and 5.xx), the price of 5.xx a couple days ago made me consider selling some in hopes of buying cheaper later. By the time I sold yesterday, price had fallen to 4.80ish, which substantially increased my realized loss compared to my overall buyin price of 5.50ish.

Realized losses in $700 neighborhood.

This feels like a terrible stock to swing trade. This is either a 10-year win or its a loss, but in the short term I don't see how we get past rocket lab's insane swings.

BicycleB

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #557 on: January 24, 2023, 10:10:43 AM »
Amidst a general decision to sell most of my stocks (a little too much market timing, maybe!), sold about half of my RKLB position yesterday.

Still viewing long term as positive and price as not crazy, but after multiple dramatic up and down swings between $3.70 and 7.10 (mostly 3.70 and 5.xx), the price of 5.xx a couple days ago made me consider selling some in hopes of buying cheaper later. By the time I sold yesterday, price had fallen to 4.80ish, which substantially increased my realized loss compared to my overall buyin price of 5.50ish.

Realized losses in $700 neighborhood.

This feels like a terrible stock to swing trade. This is either a 10-year win or its a loss, but in the short term I don't see how we get past rocket lab's insane swings.


You’re probably right!

To me it seems like if I buy some in the $3.xx’s and sell in the $5.xx’s I’d make a profit, and if I keep some I’m still in for the long haul, just at a lower net basis. In other words the swings are an opportunity. Maybe the long term value is a fail safe in case shorter moves go wrong?

In any case, I’ve never really traded or long term held an individual stock before, so probably I’ll just find the pitfalls by stepping in them. Hopefully my learning adventure is free education for wiser readers.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 10:17:11 AM by BicycleB »

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #558 on: January 24, 2023, 05:47:23 PM »
Rocket Lab's first launch from the United States has successfully reached orbit! Fantastic news!

https://www.space.com/rocket-lab-1st-us-electron-launch

alcon835

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #559 on: January 25, 2023, 07:14:11 AM »
Rocket Lab's first launch from the United States has successfully reached orbit! Fantastic news!

https://www.space.com/rocket-lab-1st-us-electron-launch

I am really excited by all the things Rocket Lab is doing! Here's to 2023 and far, far beyond!

talltexan

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #560 on: January 25, 2023, 11:23:36 AM »
If your goal is to build a position, you deal with the volatility by dollar-value-averaging into it. Buy $1,000 worth today. One month from now, add enough to make your stake worth $2,000. If it goes on a run, that may mean you have to sell a small portion for one of the months. But you'll make it back up with buying more at a lower price when it comes available.

AlanStache

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #561 on: January 25, 2023, 11:47:26 AM »
If your goal is to build a position, you deal with the volatility by dollar-value-averaging into it. Buy $1,000 worth today. One month from now, add enough to make your stake worth $2,000. If it goes on a run, that may mean you have to sell a small portion for one of the months. But you'll make it back up with buying more at a lower price when it comes available.

This would work so long as the price moves up and down, but if it trends up your position will gradually decrease?

maizefolk

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #562 on: January 25, 2023, 04:26:58 PM »
If your goal is to build a position, you deal with the volatility by dollar-value-averaging into it. Buy $1,000 worth today. One month from now, add enough to make your stake worth $2,000. If it goes on a run, that may mean you have to sell a small portion for one of the months. But you'll make it back up with buying more at a lower price when it comes available.

This would work so long as the price moves up and down, but if it trends up your position will gradually decrease?

I think in the scenario tt is talking about the goal would be your position is worth $1,000 more each month and buy or sell enough stock each month to make the happen.

If the stock trends up, you'll be investing less and less each month and eventually selling some each month (but the value of your position will also be increasing each month).

Of course if it trends down you end up spending more and more money buying shares each month.

AlanStache

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #563 on: January 25, 2023, 06:11:47 PM »
So the target position increases by 1k$ each month - buy or sell to hit that.

Going to have to play with some data on this one.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #564 on: January 26, 2023, 01:58:52 AM »
Ars Technica has a good article about Rocket Lab’s first US launch:

Rocket Lab’s first US launch: Big for the company and the site

Scandium

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #565 on: January 26, 2023, 09:13:01 AM »
Ars Technica has a good article about Rocket Lab’s first US launch:

Rocket Lab’s first US launch: Big for the company and the site

Damn, I got lost in all the postponed launches, so I forgot to look east the other day. I could have seen it from my house! I'll have to watch my stocks go up instead I guess (I hope..)

LightStache

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #566 on: February 04, 2023, 06:22:55 AM »
Anyone have a guess why RKLB popped yesterday while indexes were sharply down?

joemandadman189

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #567 on: February 06, 2023, 10:13:46 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw


LightStache

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #568 on: February 07, 2023, 07:28:37 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw

Don't click this link like I did. It's an Elon Musk deepfake crypto ad and we shouldn't be supporting traffic to it.

joemandadman189

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #569 on: February 07, 2023, 09:33:16 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw

Don't click this link like I did. It's an Elon Musk deepfake crypto ad and we shouldn't be supporting traffic to it.

What are you talking about? its a direct link to a clip from the Lex Fridman Podcast where he interviews Tim Dodd who is the host of the Everyday Astronaut YouTube channel, where he teaches about rocket engines and all things space travel.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #570 on: February 07, 2023, 02:16:50 PM »
Yeah that link is legit, not sure what you’re talking about LightStache.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #571 on: February 08, 2023, 05:58:09 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw
Don't click this link like I did. It's an Elon Musk deepfake crypto ad and we shouldn't be supporting traffic to it.
It is not.  Lex Friedman is better described as the highest IQ interviewer I've seen.  The first question is about competitors to SpaceX, where RocketLab is mentioned.  Elon Musk doesn't appear in the video at all, so I think you didn't visit the same video.

I wonder if some cache temporarily went wrong and presented you with something other than the YouTube video.  The video id on YouTube appears after a "v=" in the URL, and this one starts with "yO" and ends with "Sw".  If this happens again, compare the video id where you wind up to the one in this thread.

LightStache

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #572 on: February 08, 2023, 06:58:41 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw
Don't click this link like I did. It's an Elon Musk deepfake crypto ad and we shouldn't be supporting traffic to it.
It is not.  Lex Friedman is better described as the highest IQ interviewer I've seen.  The first question is about competitors to SpaceX, where RocketLab is mentioned.  Elon Musk doesn't appear in the video at all, so I think you didn't visit the same video.

I wonder if some cache temporarily went wrong and presented you with something other than the YouTube video.  The video id on YouTube appears after a "v=" in the URL, and this one starts with "yO" and ends with "Sw".  If this happens again, compare the video id where you wind up to the one in this thread.

Oh yea, I just followed it again and it worked fine. This was the scam I was seeing when I clicked on the link yesterday:

https://petapixel.com/2022/06/13/a-deep-faked-elon-musk-is-scamming-people-on-youtube/

joemandadman189

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #573 on: February 08, 2023, 09:33:58 AM »
Sorry if i came off as rude there

BicycleB

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #574 on: February 09, 2023, 01:59:34 AM »
This interview has some glowing praise for Rocket lab and talks about many of the spaceX competitors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOeLsdFyQSw
Don't click this link like I did. It's an Elon Musk deepfake crypto ad and we shouldn't be supporting traffic to it.
It is not.  Lex Friedman is better described as the highest IQ interviewer I've seen.  The first question is about competitors to SpaceX, where RocketLab is mentioned.  Elon Musk doesn't appear in the video at all, so I think you didn't visit the same video.

I wonder if some cache temporarily went wrong and presented you with something other than the YouTube video.  The video id on YouTube appears after a "v=" in the URL, and this one starts with "yO" and ends with "Sw".  If this happens again, compare the video id where you wind up to the one in this thread.

Oh yea, I just followed it again and it worked fine. This was the scam I was seeing when I clicked on the link yesterday:

https://petapixel.com/2022/06/13/a-deep-faked-elon-musk-is-scamming-people-on-youtube/

@LightStache, you got Musk-rolled. ;)

TomTX

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #575 on: February 11, 2023, 11:04:10 AM »
With Astra and Virgin Orbit on the ropes, at this point is it safe to say that Rocket Lab is on the verge of winning the small launch market? Nobody else seems close to having a viable Electron-class launcher. Firefly Alpha, Terran One, and RS1 might yet pan out but those rockets are a size up, and priced accordingly.

Furthermore, with a rocket like Electron needing 16 launches per year to be profitable, it seems unlikely that any other company is going to step in and try to take Electron's market share. The cost of developing a competitor to Electron is simply too high, the return on investment too low, and just getting to a break-even point seems almost insurmountable. Astra and Virgin Orbit have spent well over a billion dollars developing their rockets, and they aren't even close to being able to successfully launch 16 rockets in a year. Honestly, I think the most probable outcome is that both of those companies will go bankrupt before they manage to launch another 16 rockets, combined. I just can't see how anyone can build a competitor for Electron at this point.
While this may sound a bit over-the top, I believe Starship to be the biggest potential threat to Electron's economic viability. If SpaceX can come even close to their cost and reuse goals, it's going to be cheaper to launch a fully reusable Starship one more time than it is to build and launch an Electron.

There is the counter argument that a number of customers are willing to pay more for some of their launches if it means there are 2 viable competitors in the market - they don't want a SpaceX monopoly.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #576 on: February 12, 2023, 01:28:35 AM »
While this may sound a bit over-the top, I believe Starship to be the biggest potential threat to Electron's economic viability. If SpaceX can come even close to their cost and reuse goals, it's going to be cheaper to launch a fully reusable Starship one more time than it is to build and launch an Electron.

There is the counter argument that a number of customers are willing to pay more for some of their launches if it means there are 2 viable competitors in the market - they don't want a SpaceX monopoly.

Agreed about the monopoly thing. Nobody wants a SpaceX monopoly! I doubt even SpaceX would want that, as it would invite unwanted governmental scrutiny.

I am highly skeptical about Elon Musk’s claims about Starship launch costs. First, SpaceX has spent billions developing Starship. They need to earn back this initial investment by charging more for launches. Secondly, regardless of how much Starship’s internal launch costs are, SpaceX is still going to charge as much as the market will allow.

Therefore, there’s no way that we see Starship launches for $10M until one, SpaceX recoups Starship development costs and two, another company comes out with a Starship competitor with equally low internal launch costs and sparks a price war on launch costs. I am confident that there’s just no way that the above will come true in this decade. So don’t expect to see $10M Starship launches anytime soon.

That being said, SpaceX has already established themselves as Rocket Lab’s strongest competitor in the small launch market, by virtue of their “Transporter” rideshare missions on the Falcon 9. SpaceX is launching more smallsats than Rocket Lab. Check out this article:
https://spacenews.com/small-launch-industry-warns-of-bloodletting/

Quote from: Arianespace SVP Marino Fragnito
If we talk about 50 kilograms, 100 kilograms, this kind of satellite size, this is the size of the Transporter missions. The reference price is the Transporter price. With that price, nobody will make money.

Quote from: Rocket Lab CFO Adam Spice
I think the fact is that Transporter missions have suppressed prices in the market. I think the fact is they’ve taken a lot of volume off of the market. That’s a reset that really wasn’t there in the model even only a few years ago.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 01:46:01 AM by Herbert Derp »

BicycleB

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #577 on: February 12, 2023, 05:13:46 PM »
That quote from Adam Spice is chilling (to me as a RKLB shareholder). Very good to have relatively open discussion though.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #578 on: February 17, 2023, 07:42:31 PM »
Rocket Lab just announced some new spacecraft components for sale:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230208005931/en/Rocket-Lab-Increases-Space-Systems-Offerings-with-New-Products-for-Small-Satellites

Good to see them expanding their product portfolio. But I would really like to see some more launches this year. They said 14 launches were expected this year but we are clearly behind that launch cadence!

In other news the DOD is changing their procurement process for launches, making it less selective and easier for additional launch providers to participate in the bidding process. It used to be that any DOD launch provider needed to be capable of launching any DOD mission. Now, the DOD is willing to do business with launch providers who are only capable of launching some of their payloads. This is great news for Neutron in particular:
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1626400068868661249
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 07:52:50 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Re: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?
« Reply #579 on: February 21, 2023, 09:01:42 PM »
Good news! Rocket Lab is preparing all three of their launch pads for upcoming launches. Rockets will be on the pads soon!
https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1628165082101485573?t=SB9SPiMto5QQ-MEgJyqIgA

Meanwhile, Relativity Space continues to surpass Rocket Lab with their progress on the Terran R engine. Their first full test article engine buildout is almost complete. This test article engine will be used to test the "powerpack". The second test article engine they build will be used for hot fire testing.

https://twitter.com/thetimellis/status/1626699544665927680

https://twitter.com/thetimellis/status/1625987160821350400

Rocket Lab has built something that looks like the above for Archimedes, but that is just a mock-up and not a functional test article:
https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1590811859665686528
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 09:03:46 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Lots of new Rocket Lab news came out today with the Q4 2022 earnings report! CNBC summary.

Rocket Lab has signed a four-launch contract with Capella Space to launch Earth observation satellites. Launches for this contract start in Q3 2023. This is addition to the existing Capella Space mission scheduled for this month.

Rocket Lab plans to launch two missions in March 2023. One for Capella Space and one for BlackSky. BlackSky is launching from New Zealand and Capella Space is launching from Virginia. It's great to see parallel launch campaigns and the new US launch pad getting some action!

Rocket Lab has established an Australian subsidiary to take advantage of Australian government incentives for their country's space industry.

In their Q4 2022 earnings report webcast, Rocket Lab had some interesting things to say:

1. [18:03] Rocket Lab thinks they might be able to make Electron first stage waterproof and just recover it from the ocean every time. They are going to do another ocean recovery with additional waterproofing modifications. If they can stick to marine recovery, it will introduce additional savings to the recovery process and also they will improve from 50% of missions being recoverable to 60-70%.
2. [20:15] The first Neutron development building has been completed, which will be used for stage assembly and integration. Work has commenced on the Neutron launch pad as well.

On the financial side, Rocket Lab's order backlog decreased again. They went from $546M at the end of Q1 2022, to $531.4M in Q2, to $520.6M in Q3, and to $503.6M in Q4. This is the third straight quarter that the order backlog has decreased. Overall, I suspect that this could be connected to the economic downturn over the course of 2022. Hopefully we will see some positive changes in the order backlog soon!

Rocket Lab had a GAAP Operating loss of $135.2M in 2022, up from $102M in 2021. Rocket Lab currently has about $484.3M of funds on hand, meaning they have about three years of funding remaining at the current burn rate.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 04:13:26 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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In other news, Relativity Space has set March 8th, 2023 as the date of their first launch:
https://spacenews.com/relativity-space-sets-date-for-first-terran-1-launch/

Very excited to see what happens with them! The progress they've been making on the Terran R engine has been very impressive.

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I don't always buy options and shares based on interweb advice...but when I do I never expect to see that money again.

alcon835

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A lot of announcements!

To your point, the biggest concern is the decreasing backlog. Space is a massive market and there aren't a ton of successful players in it at this point. And, of course, the recent market downturn isn't great for RKLB. I'm still in the accumulation phase for RKLB stock at the moment and still well within my 10-year time horizon for significant returns. Still, I am hoping to see an increase in revenue this year as the markets start to pick back up and maybe even flirting with profitability in 2024. That'll be when I really start to get nervous - if I've 4 years in to this investment and they still are struggling to find enough diversification and market to become profitable.

I think they are well positioned to get there overall, they just need more launches. If there isn't a market for more small launches there may not be a path to profitability in the current environment. What I really want is updates on Neutron. I would like to see some meaningful progress there in the coming year.

AlanStache

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Do we know what the optimal back log is?  Clearly greater than zero is good but I have trouble with the idea that "always increasing" is the desired state. 

maizefolk

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Do we know what the optimal back log is?  Clearly greater than zero is good but I have trouble with the idea that "always increasing" is the desired state.

This seems like a good question. My gut instinct response is that looking at backlogs are informative in the specific context of high growth companies (or companies trying to achieve high growth). If you're trying to grow production rapidly, and spending a lot of money to do it, the argument for what spending all that money is a good idea that the market is currently are supply limited rather than demand limited so increasing your capacity to supply your good or service will translate 1:1 into increased an increase in revenue.

An increasing backlog suggests that there is a lot more steady state demand for your product or service than you can currently supply and further investment in growing production/cadence is likely to translate directly in more long term revenue.

A stable or slowly declining backlog suggests that steady state supply and demand are pretty well matched, so spending a lot more money to speed up production/cadence will increase revenue in the short term as you chew through your backlog but may leave you with expensive excess capacity in the long term.

A declining backlog can have lots of causes (like a recession) but rapidly declining could also be a warning signal that the productive capacity has overshot long term demand and annual revenue is likely to drop once the backlog clears.

AlanStache

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Do we know what the optimal back log is?  Clearly greater than zero is good but I have trouble with the idea that "always increasing" is the desired state.

This seems like a good question. My gut instinct response is that looking at backlogs are informative in the specific context of high growth companies (or companies trying to achieve high growth). If you're trying to grow production rapidly, and spending a lot of money to do it, the argument for what spending all that money is a good idea that the market is currently are supply limited rather than demand limited so increasing your capacity to supply your good or service will translate 1:1 into increased an increase in revenue.

An increasing backlog suggests that there is a lot more steady state demand for your product or service than you can currently supply and further investment in growing production/cadence is likely to translate directly in more long term revenue.

A stable or slowly declining backlog suggests that steady state supply and demand are pretty well matched, so spending a lot more money to speed up production/cadence will increase revenue in the short term as you chew through your backlog but may leave you with expensive excess capacity in the long term.

A declining backlog can have lots of causes (like a recession) but rapidly declining could also be a warning signal that the productive capacity has overshot long term demand and annual revenue is likely to drop once the backlog clears.

Yes. 

I think this could get real complicated real quick.  Potentially interesting (but not so much I would go back to school to study business :-)  )

Back log and back log rate are both of consequence, and probably both require context. 

Here with launches we are doing small sample size statistics, one launch is a large percent of the total, one can of soup for Campbells is nothing. 

Herbert Derp

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What I really want is updates on Neutron. I would like to see some meaningful progress there in the coming year.

Rocket Lab did provide updates on Neutron. During their earnings call they shared that the first Neutron development building has been completed, which will be used for stage assembly and integration. Work has commenced on the Neutron launch pad as well. Finally, they said that they have been able to acquire manufacturing hardware for Neutron and that supply chain issues were not a problem. Rocket Lab has also shared progress of the Neutron fuel tanks and engine test stand on Twitter.

maizefolk

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I think this could get real complicated real quick.  Potentially interesting (but not so much I would go back to school to study business :-)  )

Agreed on both points.


Quote
Here with launches we are doing small sample size statistics, one launch is a large percent of the total, one can of soup for Campbells is nothing.

Also agreed but with the proviso that a single launch is not AS big a percentage of the total as my initial gut check would have suggested.

It sounds like the average electron launch is only bringing in about $7M of revenue. So if the $500M backlog is all for electron launches that suggests a backlog of 70+ launches or ~8 years as rocketlab's historical launch cadence.

Herbert Derp

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To your point, the biggest concern is the decreasing backlog.

Good news on that front. More news just came out about the changes the US military has been making to their launch provider bidding process. The US military is about to put about $10B+ of launch contracts up for grabs, and they have specifically modified their bidding process to support companies like Rocket Lab:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/the-gold-rush-for-the-next-round-of-military-launch-contracts-has-started/

Another article, this could be well over 50 missions:
https://spacenews.com/space-force-looks-to-energize-industry-with-next-round-of-launch-contracts/

Rocket Lab is almost guaranteed to get a slice of this pie! When it comes to space, the US government is known for spreading their contracts around in order to nurture young technology companies.

Herbert Derp

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Virgin Orbit is furloughing nearly all its employees and pausing operations for a week as it looks for a funding lifeline. This looks grim:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/15/virgin-orbit-pauses-operations-furloughs-staff.html

alcon835

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Rocket Lab had their second successful launch from Virginia!
https://investors.rocketlabusa.com/news/news-details/2023/Rocket-Lab-Successfully-Launches-34th-Electron-Rocket-Second-Mission-from-Virginia/default.aspx

I'm looking forward to the day when these launches are so routine, they're not even noteworthy anymore.

Herbert Derp

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Relativity’s first launch has ended in failure. The first stage performed well, passing through max q and successfully performing stage separation, but something went wrong with the second stage and the rocket failed to reach orbit:
https://spacenews.com/relativity-launches-first-terran-1/

Space remains hard. I’m sure Relativity will have another go at it soon! I’m curious to see which of Firefly, ABL, and Relativity will reach orbit first. At this point, all three companies have attempted launches and failed, but success is just around the corner!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 11:01:57 PM by Herbert Derp »

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Getting safely off the pad and clearing the tower on the first launch attempt for a new rocket built by a new company is a win in my book. It appears that the first stage and stage separation happened flawlessly, and they actually got into space (if not into orbit.) It will be interesting to find out why the second stage failed to perform.

Mr Mark

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I heard yesterday that Rocket Lab had purchased SolAero Technologies last year. What I also didn't know is that SolAero solar power technology powers ~50% of all satellites. 50%!

Also the US Defense Dept are contracting a lot of small launches. This will be great news for RKLB
Bought some this morning. :-)

Fun to be in the space business.


Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab shared some new numbers for Neutron today. Rocket Lab is targeting a launch price of $50-55M for Neutron:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/rocket-lab-neutron-launch-price-challenges-spacex.html

This is compared to $67M for Falcon 9. Rocket Lab plans to fly each Neutron booster about 10-20 times, and have profit margins of 50%, implying a Neutron launch cost of $20-25M.

Rocket Lab also apparently signed a deal with a large mega constellation customer to provide thousands of 12Nms reaction wheels per year:
https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/24/rocket-lab-reveals-big-supplier-deal-with-mystery-mega-constellation-customer/

Small tidbits of information have been leaking out about that deal over the last few months, so this isn’t entirely new information. Rocket Lab had to construct a new reaction wheel production facility just for that single customer. Hopefully we’ll learn more specifics about that deal soon.

Some people speculate the customer could be Amazon and the deal could be worth billions of dollars:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/10xlhxa/rklb_hidden_message_in_new_pr_big_announcement/

Each reaction wheel sells for $100-120K, depending on radiation hardening:
https://www.rocketlabusa.com/assets/Uploads/Rocket-Lab-12-Nms-RW4-RW5-reaction-wheel-datasheet.pdf

To put this into context, the contract could easy be as big or bigger than Globalstar. For example, 5,000 reaction wheels at $70K each is $350M! Unfortunately, at this point we don’t have enough specifics about the deal other than “thousands of reaction wheels per year”.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 10:39:23 PM by Herbert Derp »

Mr Mark

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Rocket Lab shared some new numbers for Neutron today. Rocket Lab is targeting a launch price of $50-55M for Neutron:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/rocket-lab-neutron-launch-price-challenges-spacex.html
...

Looked like a v well received presentation. They seem on track for the Neutron, and I really like the point that they are getting into space management, and being a one stop shop for the end to end business of advising, procuring, launching and managing of satellites. From that article:

<< “A lot of the companies that we’re [launching to orbit on Electron] now are very unnatural owners of space assets,” >> and

<<Rocket Lab aims to create an “end-to-end platform for customers” who need space-based services. Spice said the company wants to be operating satellites and “delivering data to our customers and developing a recurring revenue stream from that,” essentially eliminating the need for other companies to build and operate their own satellites.>>

These guys at RKLB really seem to have their s**t together, IMHO.

Herbert Derp

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I'm looking forward to the day when these launches are so routine, they're not even noteworthy anymore.

Rocket Lab just launched again. Second time this month! The booster was recovered from the ocean this time, and was equipped with “additional waterproofing”. Rocket Lab thinks they can just recover the boosters from the ocean and refurbish them, like what SpaceX does with Falcon 9 fairings.

This isn’t the first time that rockets have been fished out of the ocean and refurbished—it was done for the Space Shuttle. However, the practice was questionable, as the cost of refurbishing boosters from the ocean was similar to constructing new boosters. Hopefully it will work out better for Rocket Lab.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 02:52:23 AM by Herbert Derp »

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Thanks for all the updates @Herbert Derp

Looks like an exciting times ahead. In regards to Relativity - looking like they might be close to a successful launch - is their rocket a competitor for Neutron? Or a different payload weight?

If you don’t mind - could you please share your thoughts on how you see Rocket Lab’s future in a scenario where Neutron fails?

Herbert Derp

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Thanks for all the updates @Herbert Derp

Looks like an exciting times ahead. In regards to Relativity - looking like they might be close to a successful launch - is their rocket a competitor for Neutron? Or a different payload weight?

If you don’t mind - could you please share your thoughts on how you see Rocket Lab’s future in a scenario where Neutron fails?

Relativity’s Terran R is a competitor to Neutron and Falcon 9. The Terran R has significantly more payload capacity (20,000 kg to LEO) than Neutron (13,000 kg to LEO). That said, the rocket that Relativity just launched is the smaller Terran 1 (non-reusable, 1,500 kg to LEO), which in my opinion is not really a competitor to anything.

Terran 1 primarily serves as a technology development platform for Terran R which is still several years out. Terran R is expected to have its first launch around the same time as Neutron, which seems to be around 2025. It is not clear to me that Relativity will continue to fly Terran 1 after Terran R is finished. Relativity claims there is a business case for the Terran 1 but I am skeptical. They might just be saying that so as not to spook their investors. The best comparison would be to SpaceX’s Falcon 1 which was quickly abandoned in favor of Falcon 9.

If Neutron failed, it would be bad for Rocket Lab as their launch business is not really viable with just Electron. Electron will never be a big money maker. Like Falcon 1 and Terran 1, Electron serves as a crucial technology development platform but will always be low-demand, low-revenue, low-volume, and marginally profitable at best. However, Rocket Lab actually gets most of their revenue from their space systems business (satellite components), not launch, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world for them. Rocket Lab would just transition to another satellite company like York Space or Terran Orbital.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 05:25:58 AM by Herbert Derp »