Author Topic: Rocket Lab (RKLB) - Finally a decent space company that we can invest in?  (Read 117291 times)

Herbert Derp

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Speaking of imploding competitors, Astra’s current problem right now is to figure out how to not get delisted from the Nasdaq. That and not running out of money. Astra will announce their Q4 2022 financials later this week on March 30th. That should give us more clarity on how close they are to running out of money, and I expect it to paint a grim picture. With a market cap of just $112M and in this high-interest financial environment, their options to raise additional capital have dwindled to almost nothing.

With Richard Branson unwilling to provide further funding, Virgin Orbit is in the process of raising $200M from a sucker by the name of Matthew Brown. What Brown attempts to achieve other than losing $200M is anyone’s guess. Virgin Orbit’s technology is at a developmental dead-end and is not financially viable. Launching rockets from planes has turned out to be a dumb idea because the size of the rocket is limited to the size of the plane, and the market has shown that small rockets are not financially viable on their own. Small rockets need to be a stepping stone to large rockets, but Virgin Orbit’s unfortunate choice of technology means they can never build a large rocket. Virgin Orbit is clearly a failing business!

It should go without saying at this point, but space is hard!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 05:14:59 AM by Herbert Derp »

AlanStache

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Any chance VO could pivot to making a weapons system?  I have heard nothing about this and not sure it would make any sense, but could be a option for the new investor to insist the company move towards.  A very long range B52 launched missile could have utility. 

Mr Mark

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Loving RocketLab. I found this video tour of Rocketlab's facilities (although a year old now) amazing. It's not CGI or vapourware. Really good engineering.

And NZ has been at the forefront of carbonfibre technology for a long time with their foiling America's Cup racing yachts. The ability of 3D printed engines to make shapes impossible before additive manufacturing is also wondrous to me.

 https://youtu.be/KKHiPf8cEFk

Mr Mark

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Speaking of imploding competitors,
...
With Richard Branson unwilling to provide further funding, Virgin Orbit is in the process of raising $200M from a sucker by the name of Matthew Brown. What Brown attempts to achieve other than losing $200M is anyone’s guess. Virgin Orbit’s technology is at a developmental dead-end and is not financially viable. Launching rockets from planes has turned out to be a dumb idea because the size of the rocket is limited to the size of the plane, and the market has shown that small rockets are not financially viable on their own. Small rockets need to be a stepping stone to large rockets, but Virgin Orbit’s unfortunate choice of technology means they can never build a large rocket. Virgin Orbit is clearly a failing business!

It should go without saying at this point, but space is hard!

Looks like the deals with Matthew Brown fell through over the weekend, Virgin Orbit employees remain furloughed without pay.

Herbert Derp

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Any chance VO could pivot to making a weapons system?  I have heard nothing about this and not sure it would make any sense, but could be a option for the new investor to insist the company move towards.  A very long range B52 launched missile could have utility. 

I doubt it. For a weapons system you want solid fuel rockets because the rocket has to always be “ready to go” at a moments notice. Liquid fueled rockets like what all the commercial space companies use may be more economical, but they take hours to prepare for launch.

Looks like the deals with Matthew Brown fell through over the weekend, Virgin Orbit employees remain furloughed without pay.

Ouch! Here’s the news article:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/27/virgin-orbit-extends-unpaid-pause-as-deal-collapses-talks-continue.html

Herbert Derp

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Looks like this truly is the end for Virgin Orbit. After failing to secure funding, the company will cease operations and lay off nearly their entire workforce!

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/30/virgin-orbit-funding-ceasing-operations-layoffs.html

markbike528CBX

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Space nerd perspective on the Virgin Orbit issue(s).

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=58469.msg2469037

Herbert Derp

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And just like that, Relativity has cancelled Terran 1. I was not expecting this, but it makes sense given the difficulty of tech startups to raise funding in this financial environment. At this rate, we won’t see any more launches from Relativity any time soon, similar to Astra. Also, the design of Terran R has changed to what is essentially a Falcon 9 clone and the second stage will not be reusable.

https://spacenews.com/relativity-shelves-terran-1-after-one-launch-redesigns-terran-r/

This makes Terran R more similar to Neutron, and seems to validate Rocket Lab’s choice of not pursuing second stage reuse on Neutron. In any case, Relativity definitely seems to have scaled back their ambitions. They will have to make their current cash last as long as possible because it won’t be so easy to raise more.

It also makes you wonder about the financial viability of rockets like Terran 1. ABL Space Systems and Firefly are also working on rockets in this class, without a plan to build a Falcon 9 class rocket. If a space company isn’t working on a reusable Falcon 9 class rocket, they might not be competitive in the launch market.

Relativity is now targeting 2026 for the first launch of the Terran R. This means that it is much more likely that Neutron will fly before Terran R or any of the other Falcon 9 competitors.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 08:13:36 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Starship is finally due to launch in just a few days! It could be as early as this coming Monday the 17th of April! I’m expecting some scrubs so I think it is doubtful that it will actually launch on Monday but we shall see. No matter what happens, next week is going to be huge for human spaceflight. Keep your eyes peeled!

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/green-light-go-spacex-receives-a-launch-license-from-the-faa-for-starship/

maizefolk

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It's certainly possible they'll scrub, but I'm gonna get up so early on Monday in case they don't.

Would be so fun to see the rocket go up if it succeeds (and it really could explore even if it doesn't scrub. Starship has been tested, but the design has changed a lot since then. And the Superheavy first stage has never flown before. So we'll see.)

Herbert Derp

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T-minus six minutes to the first Starship launch attempt! There are 941,000 people watching the YouTube stream. I’ve never seen this many people on a livestream before! Wow!

Edit:

And it’s scrubbed! Better luck next time!

Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab just introduced a new constellation class star tracker:
https://www.rocketlabusa.com/updates/rocket-lab-launches-new-constellation-class-star-tracker/

I wonder if they will also be selling these to that same customer who is buying thousands of constellation class reaction wheels per year?

In other news, Rocket Lab has repurposed Electron to act as a “test launcher” for hypersonic weapons for the US military! The first launch is scheduled for later this year. I was not expecting that!

Since Electron is a fragile liquid-fueled rocket that is slow to prep for launch, it seems unlikely that it will be used as a true weapons platform, but it should be an economical way to test hypersonic weapon prototypes such as hypersonic glide vehicles. A ballistic missile launched hypersonic weapons system would use a solid-fueled launcher that is hardened against EMP blasts and robust enough to launch immediately under all weather conditions. Such a launcher would be far more expensive than Electron.

https://investors.rocketlabusa.com/news/news-details/2023/Rocket-Lab-Introduces-Suborbital-Testbed-Rocket-Selected-for-Hypersonic-Test-Flights/default.aspx
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 06:22:58 PM by Herbert Derp »

AlanStache

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"test launcher": I wonder if this is related to being at the Wallops cite as I think they do sounding rocket tests from there.  Is a really good idea to do testing with liquid as I expect you can adjust the thrust/speed profile a lot easier than casing a solid motor to give you what you want.  Iterate with the liquids then manufacture with solids. 

Herbert Derp

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I watched the Starship launch live! It did not disappoint! Looking forward to the next launch in a few months.

In any case, it’s becoming clear that Starship won’t be mature enough for full and rapid reuse for at least another few years. This should give Neutron some more breathing room.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 11:23:15 PM by Herbert Derp »

time is money

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Watched it live as well. It was pretty awesome. It seemed slow in comparison to smaller rockets - must be the weight plus optical illusion as the rocket size is so much bigger.

Interesting that you reference Neutron - aren’t these completely different category rockets that won’t compete with each other?

Herbert Derp

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Starship is much bigger, but Neutron and Starship are both designed to launch satellite megaconstellations. They will be competitors in that space.

Herbert Derp

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In other news, Rocket Lab has announced that they plan to refly their first Rutherford engine in Q3 of this year. This is a significant milestone for Electron reusability.

https://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-to-refly-electron-engine/

maizefolk

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Watched it live as well. It was pretty awesome. It seemed slow in comparison to smaller rockets - must be the weight plus optical illusion as the rocket size is so much bigger.

The optical illusion factor is real. Large rockets moving the same speed as small rockets take longer to move a single body length up into the sky.

But superheavy was also flying with between two and six rocket engines out of commission, so the thrust to weight ratio at the start sucked even more than it normally does at the start of a launch (but thankfully not quite as much bad as Astra's TWR 1 launch a few months ago).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2023, 07:01:30 AM by maizefolk »

Mr Mark

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to me it's another reminder that launching rockets off the planet is really hard.

I like Rocketlabs simplicity, focus, and execution record, and that they are NOT trying to get NASA to pay for a rocket that theoretically can "go to Mars in the thousands".

A nice sized rocket to reliably launch 98% of payloads into orbit, plus the moon, sounds perfect to me.

Oh, another plus: RKLB is not run by a meglomaniacal fantasist asshole constantly distracted by a zillion other things.

MustacheAndaHalf

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I watched replays of the SpaceX launch a few times.  The goal was just to clear the launch tower, so the other milestones are a bonus.  They throttled down and up the engines, went through "max Q", but did not get stage separation.  Below is the launch replay with a time offset that starts at T minus 11 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wcilQ58hI&t=2693s

BicycleB

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Just noticed an article from last week (hence, out of date opening sentence) by Tim Fernholz at the Space Business newsletter. He asserts that the industry is hungry for mid-sized rockets, discusses competitors and timelines. Speaking well of Rocket Labs' track record, he mentions Neutron as a possible leader in this area. Full text pasted below link.

https://qz.com/emails/space-business/1850352835/space-business-lab-rats

"How do you have a space renaissance without rockets?

All eyes will be on today’s attempt to fly SpaceX’s next-generation Starship rocket, but the bigger near-term problem is with the current generation of launch vehicle development. The issues aren’t just with the new rocket firms fighting their way to orbit, but aerospace giants as well: It’s not clear when United Launch Alliance’s Vulcan will be ready, and now Europe’s latest rocket, Ariane 6, is so delayed that it will have to hire SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket to launch its next set of Galileo navigation satellites.

Indeed, if you’re a Western company and want to launch anything weighing more than 500 kg or benefit from the efficiency of sharing a launch vehicle with multiple customers, you have to go to Elon Musk’s space firm.

This isn’t the ideal situation for driving down the cost of going to space—SpaceX will happily grow its margins and its volume picking up more business, just as it did with rival satellite operator OneWeb when Russia stopped letting Western firms launch on its Soyuz rockets.

The demand for medium-lift rockets, which generally carry between two and 20 metric tons of payload to low-earth orbit, is so clear that many start-ups with plans to deploy and operate smaller rockets are pivoting to bigger ones.

Astra, which scrapped a smaller design after a failed mission for NASA, is working on a vehicle that could carry 600 kg to orbit. Relativity Space tested its smaller Terran 1 rocket for the first time in March; after it failed to reach orbit, the company decided to take those learnings and focus on a larger, reusable vehicle called Terran R. This is exactly what SpaceX did nearly 15 years ago—abandon its small Falcon 1 rocket to build the Falcon 9.

The most interesting of these efforts is from Rocket Lab, the only winner thus far in the race to operate small rockets. Despite a regular flight cadence with its smaller Electron rocket, the company has made clear that its future is in developing a larger, reusable vehicle called Neutron capable of launching 13,000 kg to low-earth orbit. That vehicle could head for orbit as soon as next year. One key sign of the desire for bigger vehicles comes from the US military, one of the biggest spenders on rocket launch, which changed its bidding process to allow new entrants like Rocket Lab.

What makes Neutron promising is Rocket Lab’s record of execution, which includes Electron and two recent announcements. First is that the company will fly one of its rocket engines on an Electron rocket after recovering it from a previously-flown vehicle and refurbishing it. That kind of practice bodes well for scaling up. The second is that the company will use a version of its current rocket dubbed HASTE (Hypersonic Accelerator Suborbital Test Electron) to test hypersonic vehicles for the US military. “HASTE is not the promise of a future capability—it’s a completed launch vehicle ready for flight now,” Rocket Lab executive Brian Rogers said in a statement.

Starship is exciting, but even with a successful test flight today, it’s hard to see the vehicle coming into full service for years. Serious testing likely to be focused on NASA’s Artemis program, which aims to use the huge spacecraft as a lunar lander. The rest of the world needs a completed launch vehicle ready for flight now."
« Last Edit: May 01, 2023, 02:06:22 PM by BicycleB »

BicycleB

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Ars Technica writes that RocketLab has distinguished itself by executing where competitors have been failing, discusses Neutron as well as Electron.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/05/rocket-lab-hitting-its-stride-with-high-cadence-new-venture-for-electron/
« Last Edit: May 06, 2023, 07:58:36 PM by BicycleB »

Mr Mark

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Nice 15% bump in the share price in the past few days - from circa $3.90-$4.00 jump to $4.65. More successful launches. Plus more NASA contracts transferred to RocketLab. (esp nice they'll launch from launch pad #1 in NZ). Great news.

Long RKLB

Michael in ABQ

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Nice 15% bump in the share price in the past few days - from circa $3.90-$4.00 jump to $4.65. More successful launches. Plus more NASA contracts transferred to RocketLab. (esp nice they'll launch from launch pad #1 in NZ). Great news.

Long RKLB

I loaded up on shares a week ago so those are in the green. Unfortunately, my average cost basis is still over $5.00 since my first few shares were purchased back when it was still a SPAC at $12.08 per share. It's still a very minor position in the grand scheme of my portfolio.

Herbert Derp

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Here’s the CNBC article for Rocket Lab’s recent earnings results:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/09/rocket-lab-rklb-q1-2023-results.html

I like that the cadence of launches is picking up. Rocket Lab really is the only New Space company besides SpaceX that is routinely and reliably sending stuff into orbit—and I expect it to remain this way for quite some time. I also like that Rocket Lab is signing customers who are ready to launch right away. For NASA’s “swarm” satellites, they plan to launch within three months of contract signing. This is in contrast to seemingly endless delays with customers in the past.

Herbert Derp

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It has just been announced that Rocket Lab is buying Virgin Orbit’s rocket factory in California. Rocket Lab bid $16.1 million for the lease on Virgin Orbit’s main production facility in Long Beach, California, along with machinery and equipment there. Rocket Lab has its headquarters and a production facility just a couple blocks away in Long Beach.

This looks like a big win for Rocket Lab! They just got a new manufacturing facility in a convenient location. It shows that Rocket Lab is eager to ramp up production of its products and is still willing to make big investments in new infrastructure with an eye towards future growth.

https://spacenews.com/three-companies-to-buy-most-virgin-orbit-assets/

TechCrunch had the following to say in their article:
https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/23/virgin-orbits-launch-business-sold-for-parts-to-vast-stratolaunch-and-rocket-lab/

Quote from: TechCrunch
Rocket Lab already has a massive footprint in Long Beach, and it will only benefit from the additional square footage and machines, like 3D printers and specialty tank welding machines.

“The combination of [Virgin’s] assets with Rocket Lab’s existing production, manufacturing, and test capabilities is expected to advance the production of Rocket Lab’s larger launch vehicle, Neutron,” Rocket Lab said in a statement. “Rocket Lab will not be integrating Virgin Orbit’s launch system within its existing launch services.”

Peter Beck says that the new facility will accelerate and reduce the cost of the Neutron program:
https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1661156741793579009

Quote from: Peter Beck
Virgin Orbit built a fantastic production facility with the very best equipment. We're fortunate to have nearly completed the acquisition of this facility and equipment to help advance Neutron’s future production and reduce the overall cost of the program significantly.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 07:11:30 AM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab just successfully launched the last batch of the TROPICS cyclone tracking satellites for NASA:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2023/05/coming-to-a-storm-near-you/

This brings them to five launches in the first five months of the year. Rocket Lab is comfortably hitting a monthly launch cadence and is ahead of the three launches they had this time last year. Business is picking up! Looking to see even more launches as part of the HASTE program!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Electron_launches
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 07:35:38 AM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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According to Michael Sheetz and Jefferies, the value of the Virgin Orbit facility and equipment that Rocket Lab purchased was $100M: $80M of equipment and $20M of real estate. Not a bad deal for $16M!

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1663948612684873731

Rocket Lab is apparently selling their helicopter for $11.6M. If so, this would fund most of the Virgin Orbit purchase!

https://twitter.com/trancsitu/status/1656054276865822722
« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 05:16:56 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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Finally, some more progress on Archimedes! Now at least we have something that is starting to look like an engine:
https://twitter.com/rocketlab/status/1666250770298322944

LightStache

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Finally, some more progress on Archimedes! Now at least we have something that is starting to look like an engine:
https://twitter.com/rocketlab/status/1666250770298322944

Ha I was expecting to see feedlines and turbines and all that "engine" stuff. Cool pic though. What do you call that AM robotic arm thingamajig?

Mr Mark

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report that Kathy Wood bought more RKLB on Tuesday, nice continued bump in the stock price.

And yeah, what a great deal from Virgin Orbit's fire sale!

Mr Mark

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big bump up today. Now $6 a share. sweet. A nice sign the stock price is stabilizing / trending upwards.

A successful build/launch for the Varda space microFab company  https://varda.com/ was a plus, and the realisation slowly dawning in the market that there's really no-one else performing in this 'space' but SpaceX and RocketLab?

Still, long RKLB, so far so good.

Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab’s first HASTE mission was a success:
https://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-launches-first-suborbital-version-of-electron/

Looking forward to more of these launches in the future!

BicycleB

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big bump up today. Now $6 a share. sweet. A nice sign the stock price is stabilizing / trending upwards.

A successful build/launch for the Varda space microFab company  https://varda.com/ was a plus, and the realisation slowly dawning in the market that there's really no-one else performing in this 'space' but SpaceX and RocketLab?

Still, long RKLB, so far so good.

It was a nice bump!

Earlier, figuring that a general downturn was coming at some point, I told myself that if RKLB got above the $5.50 level of my net cost to date, I'd lighten up a little and then buy more later at a hopefully better price. After it went above $5.50 last week I followed my plan, selling half. But if it never drops again, I'll never get to buy more. :( 

In recent months, it seemed weird that news for the company was usually good, but the the stock price was low and volatile. It seemed like investors were reading bad news about other rocket stocks or something. Are they now becoming more optimistic due to the wider market going up, or actually recognizing RocketLab's advantages?

BicycleB

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Rocket Lab’s first HASTE mission was a success:
https://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-launches-first-suborbital-version-of-electron/

Looking forward to more of these launches in the future!

Interesting article, especially where it mentioned the greater secrecy surrounding the HASTE launch. Maybe we'll see (or not see, so to speak) more of these media blackout missions with the increasing defense contracts. Less fun as a viewer, but probably good as an investor. :)

Mr Mark

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big bump up today. Now $6 a share. sweet. A nice sign the stock price is stabilizing / trending upwards.

A successful build/launch for the Varda space microFab company  https://varda.com/ was a plus, and the realisation slowly dawning in the market that there's really no-one else performing in this 'space' but SpaceX and RocketLab?

Still, long RKLB, so far so good.

It was a nice bump!

Earlier, figuring that a general downturn was coming at some point, I told myself that if RKLB got above the $5.50 level of my net cost to date, I'd lighten up a little and then buy more later at a hopefully better price. After it went above $5.50 last week I followed my plan, selling half. But if it never drops again, I'll never get to buy more. :( 

In recent months, it seemed weird that news for the company was usually good, but the the stock price was low and volatile. It seemed like investors were reading bad news about other rocket stocks or something. Are they now becoming more optimistic due to the wider market going up, or actually recognizing RocketLab's advantages?

especially frustrating when that BS pseudo-space company Virgin Galactic gets a bump for doing squat. Sigh.

Scandium

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Anyone selling covered call options for RKLB? Interest has suddenly jumped, so can get e.g. $0.25 for oct 20, $10 call. But I'm nervous it's possible we'd get a few more of these "hype jumps" of 10% (3-4 to be exact), and I'd loose my shares! Of course I'd get a nice profit on the sale, but the taxes stink, and STCG on the options income? Ugh. Not sure it's worth if for a few hundred bucks..

Maybe I'm just to nervous and/or dumb to mess with options, specifically covered calls. Every time I check it just looks like collecting pocket change for some potentially nasty tax consequences and loosing out on the stock rising..?

markbike528CBX

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…snip….
Maybe I'm just to nervous and/or dumb to mess with options, specifically covered calls. Every time I check it just looks like collecting pocket change for some potentially nasty tax consequences and loosing out on the stock rising..?
Precisely.  Very well said. 
You should be on the rewrite team for the next edition of Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options, also known as the options disclosure document (ODD).
No snark intended.

Unless you absolutely want to sell a stock, you shouldn’t use call options to sell.  They are useful as a “paid” , automated limit sell order.

Disclosure: I use naked (Cash backed) puts to buy stocks. I can’t bear paying market price, a limit order doesn’t pay anything, a put separates in time my order and it’s execution, and it feels sportier to use an option.  Has it worked out? Not really, my last one was RKLB at 4, I made a half buck, but RKLB is up two bucks and rising fast.  The good news is I used my rotting cash to do something.


Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab just scooped up a bunch of new launch contracts, including some satellites that were supposed to launch with Virgin Orbit.

One launch for NASA:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230509006091/en/Rocket-Lab-to-Launch-Small-Satellite-Swarm-for-NASA

Two launches for NorthStar (former Virgin Orbit customer):
https://spacenews.com/northstar-pivots-to-rocket-lab-following-virgin-orbits-collapse/

Two launches for Synspective:
https://www.rocketlabusa.com/updates/rocket-lab-signs-multi-launch-deal-to-further-deploy-synspective-constellation/

It is great to see former customers of Astra and Virgin Orbit coming over to Rocket Lab! It shows that Rocket Lab can deliver the goods, while those companies cannot!

Rocket Lab’s next launch a few days from now is going to include ocean recovery of the Electron booster, which has been modified with additional waterproofing:
https://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-takes-another-step-towards-reusability-on-next-electron-launch/

I’m very interested to see how this waterproofing strategy works out for Rocket Lab. It would be amazing if they can actually relaunch a booster that was fished out of the ocean!

Meanwhile, Astra is running out of money:
https://parabolicarc.com/2023/05/17/astra-space-revenue-cash-reserves-dwindle/

In their last earnings report, Astra reported a loss of $44.9M and ZERO revenue. They ended Q1 2023 with just $62.7M in funds remaining and expressed “substantial doubt” about the company’s survival.

Quote from: Astra
The Company believes that its current level of cash and cash equivalents and marketable securities are not sufficient to fund commercial scale production and sale of its services and products. These conditions raise substantial doubt regarding its ability to continue as a going concern for a period of at least one year from the date of issuance of these unaudited condensed consolidated financial statements.

Now, they are doing a 15-1 reverse stock split and are attempting to raise $65M by issuing new shares:
https://spacenews.com/astra-to-raise-up-to-65-million-in-stock-sale/

With a market cap of just $101.36M, that $65M capital raise represents a 40% dilution for existing shareholders. I sense that bankruptcy is drawing near for Astra.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 11:11:32 PM by Herbert Derp »

Herbert Derp

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especially frustrating when that BS pseudo-space company Virgin Galactic gets a bump for doing squat. Sigh.

In Virgin Galactic’s defense, they did manage to complete their first commercial flight a few weeks ago:
https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-completes-first-commercial-spaceshiptwo-suborbital-flight/

That said, Virgin Galactic still has antiquated semi-obsolete technology that amounts to a technological dead end. Plus, the company moves at such a glacial pace. SpaceShipOne first flew in 2003, and the technology hasn’t really changed since then!

Check out this article from 2009:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6761213/Richard-Branson-unveils-Virgin-Galactics-spaceship-Enterprise.html

If SpaceShipTwo had flown thirteen years ago as planned, maybe Virgin Galactic would have gone somewhere. At this point, the company is a joke! These guys have literally been fiddling around with the same rich person toy spaceplane technology for the last 20 years, and time is passing them by. They are clearly going nowhere.

It’s even worse when you consider how Virgin Galactic can ever hope to make back the ridiculous amount of R&D that they wasted over the last decade plus. The minuscule space tourism market just isn’t going to make them back their money!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 12:48:00 AM by Herbert Derp »

MustacheAndaHalf

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Virgin Galactic (SPCE) 1 year return -45%
Rocket Lab (RKLB) 1 year return +62%

I suspect when RKLB is 3 years old, it will not have -40%/year performance like Virgin Galactic stock.

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/spce/trailing-returns
https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnas/rklb/trailing-returns

Herbert Derp

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I decided to put some numbers on Virgin Galactic’s “business model”.

Virgin Galactic tickets are $450K per passenger. SpaceShipTwo can hold 6 passengers, which means revenue per launch is just $2.7M, about one third the revenue of an Electron launch. The company plans to fly once per month. At 12 flights per year, that’s an annual revenue of $32.4M! Virgin Galactic has spent over a billion dollars on R&D over the last decade plus. Do you think they are ever going to make that money back?

By the way, just last quarter the company reported a net loss of $159M!

These numbers are just soooo bad, I can’t even…



But all joking aside, maybe Virgin Galactic can scale up their business and increase launch cadence? Well, good luck finding more people willing to pay $450,000 for what amounts to an amusement park ride. Virgin Galactic claims their long term goal is 400 flights per year. Never going to happen, the market doesn’t exist! Not with the meager capabilities of this hardware, and not at these ticket prices!

But wait, perhaps SpaceShipTwo is a stepping stone to greater things? SpaceShipThree could accommodate more passengers and do Earth to Earth or Earth to space station travel. But when will Virgin Galactic be able to produce such a spaceplane, 2040? Actually, SpaceShipThree is just a minor improvement over SpaceShipTwo, won’t be capable of anything like that, and it still isn’t ready despite being announced two years ago. Looks like we’ll have to wait until at least SpaceShipFour for anything resembling a commercially viable product.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 12:36:11 AM by Herbert Derp »

Michael in ABQ

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I decided to put some numbers on Virgin Galactic’s “business model”.

Virgin Galactic tickets are $450K per passenger. SpaceShipTwo can hold 6 passengers, which means revenue per launch is just $2.7M, about one third the revenue of an Electron launch. The company plans to fly once per month. At 12 flights per year, that’s an annual revenue of $32.4M! Virgin Galactic has spent over a billion dollars on R&D over the last decade plus. Do you think they are ever going to make that money back?

But maybe they can scale up their business and increase launch cadence? Well, good luck finding more people willing to pay $450,000 for what amounts to an amusement park ride. And when will SpaceShipThree be ready, 2040?

By the way, last quarter the company reported a net loss of $159M!

These numbers are just soooo bad, I can’t even…



It's OK though, because the state of New Mexico spent $250-300 million to build them a spaceport but only collect about ~$1 million a year in rent. So that will totally pay itself off in just 300 years or so.

Herbert Derp

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Rocket Lab just completed another successful launch and ocean recovery! Seven satellites deployed into orbit. Let’s see how this “waterproofing” works out!

https://www.space.com/rocket-lab-electron-launch-recovery-july-2023
« Last Edit: July 17, 2023, 11:02:53 PM by Herbert Derp »

AlanStache

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Even going from 450k to 50k it would seem a stretch to sell that many rides.

Has VG said anything about transitioning to long distance rapid 'airline' like travel?  ultra short duration flights between major city pairs might be lucrative.  But Concord never made a profit and airlines are commercial plane makers are not know for being high margin business.

Herbert Derp

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Even going from 450k to 50k it would seem a stretch to sell that many rides.

Has VG said anything about transitioning to long distance rapid 'airline' like travel?  ultra short duration flights between major city pairs might be lucrative.  But Concord never made a profit and airlines are commercial plane makers are not know for being high margin business.

As far as I know, they have no plans to build spaceplanes with those capabilities, and their existing technology isn’t suitable for the kind of larger, long-distance spaceplanes that you would need for this purpose. Just redesigning SpaceShipTwo to make it fly higher and dock with the International Space Station is probably beyond Virgin Galactic’s technical capabilities. Their design just isn’t meant to handle reentry velocities from those altitudes. New Shepard on the other hand could probably be evolved to fly higher and dock with commercial space stations.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 07:46:27 AM by Herbert Derp »

AlanStache

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...

As far as I know, they have no plans to build spaceplanes with those capabilities, and their existing technology isn’t suitable for the kind of larger, long-distance spaceplanes that you would need for this purpose. Just redesigning SpaceShipTwo to make it fly higher and dock with the International Space Station is probably beyond Virgin Galactic’s technical capabilities. Their design just isn’t meant to handle reentry velocities from those altitudes. New Shepard on the other hand could probably be evolved to dock with commercial space stations.

thanks.  Sub-orbital long distance ballistic shots are an easier incremental improvement vs going full orbit.  Was thinking private jet type service between London & New York in <1hr.  Is still a tiny market with huge problems; I expect regulators will would be interested in how VG stored countless tons of high explosives for the solid rocket component at JFK or LaGuardia. 

Herbert Derp

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RKLB hit $8.05 today! Not clear what that’s in response to, could be broader market dynamics or maybe people think that Rocket Lab’s upcoming earnings report on August 8th is going to be really good.

In any case, it is becoming much more obvious that Rocket Lab is a legitimate company with a bright future, whereas the other publicly traded rocket companies turned out to be pretenders. Perhaps this is why the stock is up 100% since May 2023.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 08:16:53 PM by Herbert Derp »

alcon835

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RKLB hit $8.05 today! Not clear what that’s in response to, could be broader market dynamics or maybe people think that Rocket Lab’s upcoming earnings report on August 8th is going to be really good.

In any case, it is becoming much more obvious that Rocket Lab is a legitimate company with a bright future, whereas the other publicly traded rocket companies turned out to be pretenders. Perhaps this is why the stock is up 100% since May 2023.

It really feels like Rocket Lab is artificially low because of the general failure of the space market - most space companies are not going to survive for much longer and it really feels like they're getting caught up in that. Here's hoping market sentiment is starting to turn, I still believe this is a $100 stock in the next 8 years.

BicycleB

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RKLB hit $8.05 today! Not clear what that’s in response to, could be broader market dynamics or maybe people think that Rocket Lab’s upcoming earnings report on August 8th is going to be really good.

In any case, it is becoming much more obvious that Rocket Lab is a legitimate company with a bright future, whereas the other publicly traded rocket companies turned out to be pretenders. Perhaps this is why the stock is up 100% since May 2023.

It really feels like Rocket Lab is artificially low because of the general failure of the space market - most space companies are not going to survive for much longer and it really feels like they're getting caught up in that. Here's hoping market sentiment is starting to turn, I still believe this is a $100 stock in the next 8 years.

Wow, I hadn't imagined $100!

I have trouble deciding exactly what a reasonable estimate is for the size of the market that RocketLab can address and SpaceX can't. Add in a discount for the possibility of some legit competition (Relativity Space, maybe?) instead of none, and I end up with much lower imagined values, like peaks of $30 or $50 before 2030 if things go well.

I want to keep some long term, and if I knew this was the lowest it'd ever be, would want more now than I have. But I'm uncertain enough about the next 2-3 years for the market as a whole to be unure this is the lowest ever. Anyway, I'd promised myself that around $7 to $8, I'd sell some so that my remaining risk in the overall adventure was low, even though that also risks less gain in the future.

So I sold part of my stake today. Remaining shares have market value between 1% and 2% of portfolio's investable assets. Sorry for the personal sidetrack.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2023, 12:56:18 PM by BicycleB »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!