Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?

[frugalnacho]

I'm about due to purchase new tires for my car.  I usually use all year tires, but have been reading about the benefits of using dedicated winter tires (I live in detroit).  So I have several questions for the collective mustache:

Where should I purchase new tires to get the best value?
Should I use dedicated winter tires, or stick to all year tires?
If I purchase 2 sets of tires (winter/summer), should I just purchase a new set of rims so I can swap them myself and not have to deal with taking the car in to have tires swapped and rebalanced twice a year?

[Gone Fishing]

How are your All-Season tires treating you now?  How far is your commute?  Can you work from home on particularly sloppy days?  Are chains or other "strap on" traction aids legal in your area?

[Le Poisson]

Working in road safety, I absolutely, totally, completely condone the choice to slap winter boots on your car.

And yes, you should buy a second set of rims. Go to a junkyard and you can probably find them for $25.00 each or so. At the wreckers ask if they will mount/balance your tires while you are there. They may do it cheaper than the garage selling the tires. Just to be helpful... try searching for your rims here: http://www.car-part.com/ - you'll see what yards have them and what their price is. Remember, pretty wheels are more money, and in the winter, it doesn't make much difference.

Many folks buy tires at tirerack.com, but I found I was able to get a better deal (as a Canadian) through https://www.pmctire.com/en/. YMMV.

In my case, I had the tires shipped to me, then picked up this tire change stand from Princess Auto: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/8-to-16-in-tire-changer/A-p2050002e  which is also available at Harbour Freight for about $30). Then I mounted my own tires, the tires on my wife's car, and our trailer tires (on two trailers). I balanced them using dynamic balancing beads (AKA BB-gun Ammo). You just pour 4-6 OZ of BB's into each tire before airing it up, remove the lead balancing weights, and the tire will balance itself when you drive.

In the off-season my tires are stored along the ceiling of our garage so they are always out of the way.

[Gondolin]

Definitely get snow tires - the difference in heavy snow and ice conditions are like night and day.
Also definitely buy a second pair of rims. Without the rims most shops are going to charge $20-25 per wheel to swap the tires. That's $200 per year (2 swaps annually in fall and spring) so the rims will quickly pay for themselves.

[Koreth]

The two major tire chains in my area, Discount Tire and Big-O tire, offer free rotation and balancing for the life of the tire for tires purchased there. Ask your local tire shops, they may offer similar deals. Tirerack.com and Coscto also can be good buys for tires.

IMO, having a dedicated set of quality winter tires  are totally worth it.  It will cost more at  first, but a good tire will allow you to have low rolling resistance (aids fuel mileage) without compromising traction at lower temps or in snow/rain/ice. Aditionally, it you keep the winter tires on a 2nd set of cheap steel rims, yes, you can change them yourself. However, if the shop will swap/rotate/balance the tires for free come each season change, take advantage of that.

[Roboturner]

YES! snow tires are everything "all-weathers" really can't compare, I have 2 sets - crappy cheapo rims with my snow tires. Its one of the better car choices I've made.

[Mother Fussbudget]

I bought my most recent tires on-sale from Wal-Mart on-line.  I picked them up at a store 45 miles away - my nearest store with a tire center.  I saved more than $100 on the tires, and it was $20 to mount and balance. 

[nereo]

(adding my voice to the chorus)

1) yes buy a set of snow tires for snowy detroit.  The difference in cold-weather performance is that good.  Over time it doesn't even cost you that much extra cash, since your summer tires will now last 30-50% longer (depending on how long you keep your winter tires on for each year).  What you loose is basically opportunity cost, or ~7% of ~$400... about $28/year over a couple of years. 

2) yes - buy a set of steel rims for your winter tires.  It saves you money 2x a year having the tires changed (often $40-50 at a tire shop each time).  Your ROI will be less than 2 years by changing your tires yourself. 

3) as prospector noted, I've had good luck with tirerack.com.  Any shop can mount them on your steel rims, and you'll be set for the next several years.

[Le Poisson]

One thing that hasn't been noted yet... check with your insurer to see if they offer a discount if you buy winter tires. Up here many do.

[Papa bear]

What about performance is improved with snow tires?  I don't have any first hand knowledge of using snow tires, but I don't think I've ever thought I needed them.  And I've driven in some nasty snowy conditions.  Like mountain passes in Colorado in a blizzard, lake effect snow Cleveland, shut down the highway snow in upstate New York and PA, snow emergency situations in Ohio.  All were driven with a minivan or midsize sedan with FWD and never had problems...

Am I missing out on something amazing that I don't know about yet? 


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[Le Poisson]

What about performance is improved with snow tires?  I don't have any first hand knowledge of using snow tires, but I don't think I've ever thought I needed them.  And I've driven in some nasty snowy conditions.  Like mountain passes in Colorado in a blizzard, lake effect snow Cleveland, shut down the highway snow in upstate New York and PA, snow emergency situations in Ohio.  All were driven with a minivan or midsize sedan with FWD and never had problems...

Am I missing out on something amazing that I don't know about yet? 


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Yes you are.

The tires are made from different rubber compounds, with different traction patterns. There is a very notable difference in stopping distance and skid/slide behaviour with winter tires. Originally I thought this was a marketing tool to get car owners to run out and spend $600 - $800, but then I caved in and bought a set. The difference in cold weather is remarkable.

BUT... if you live in an area where it doesn't get below freezing for extended periods of time, I wouldn't bother. Anything much about 10°C (50°F??) will cause the tires to wear at an alarming rate.

Tire Rack did the following tests - there are others out there but I don't have time to dig right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfvyPtYR0Y

[GuitarStv]

Winter tires just work better in the winter.  They grip better on bare road, they stop faster on ice, they don't slip as much in snow.  It's a great idea to get a set of rims with the tires . . . that way it's just a 15 minute job to swap your tires in the fall and in the spring, no rebalancing, no damage to the tire by taking it off and putting it on the rim.

[Gone Fishing]

MMM himself commented on snow tires a while back:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/12/01/all-wheel-drive-does-not-make-you-safer/

[Matt in Akron]

Craigstlist is your friend here.  What is the exact year/make/model/wheel size of the vehicle you drive??  I might be able to help recommend some alternate sizes that will also work so you have better selection.  The nice thing about CL is that you can usually find used tire/wheel assemblies - so everything is already mounted/balanced and ready for you to install on the car yourself.

If CL doesn't pan out, as others have suggested I would search local salvage yards for steel wheels or cheap alloy wheels.  I recently when through this exercise to source winter wheels for my Nissan Leaf - I found a set of 2005 Nissan Altima "steelies" at a local salvage yard for $25/ea.

[Papa bear]

I watched those videos and damn does it look like it takes the sport and fun out of winter driving!  Looks safer for sure... But it would be much harder to scare the shit out of my wife by purposely spinning out in a parking lot =)


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[JLee]

I watched those videos and damn does it look like it takes the sport and fun out of winter driving!  Looks safer for sure... But it would be much harder to scare the shit out of my wife by purposely spinning out in a parking lot =)


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Not at all - it lets you have far more control over where you are going (and where you are not).

[dess1313]

I have an older car, i hit a scrap yard and got new rims for $25 a pop.  I can change em out within about 90 minutes and i don't even have a proper garage.  bought winter tires (michelin XIce) and they're fantastic!!!!!  I've avoided a couple accidents due to them. They paid for themselves right there.  great traction and good stopping/starting.  Its been worth it to me.  Also they and my other tires have lasted 2x as long due to the swaps.  Each are only getting about half the mileage.  i live in Winnipeg MB so we get a lot of snow and ice for a long time.

I watched those videos and damn does it look like it takes the sport and fun out of winter driving!  Looks safer for sure... But it would be much harder to scare the shit out of my wife by purposely spinning out in a parking lot =)

Not really, staying out of an accident that would have written my car off was much more preferable to me!

[frugalnacho]

Wow, overwhelming support for snow tires.  I'm sold.

The car is a 2010 Toyota Corolla LE.

Last winter (February?) I drove down to florida.  On the way home we got caught in a wicked bad rain/ice/snow storm that stretched from alabama to north of detroit.  It turned a 22 hour drive into a 30 hour drive and was nerve-racking.  I've never used, or thought I needed dedicated snow tires, but I wish I had them on that drive.  Once we made it back from that safely, and the snow thawed, I decided to not get new tires until I needed to drive on ice/snow again. The penny test indicates I need to replace my tires.

Seems like replacing my current tires with new summer tires, and buying a new set of steel rims and getting them mounted with new winter tires is what I need to do.  I should be able to get some kind of discount if I purchase it all from the same place at the same time.

[RWD]

I also want to cast my vote for using dedicated winter tires. Running two sets of tires has the additional benefit of allowing you to run "summer" tires during the warmer months and ignore all-season tires entirely. Summer tires will perform better than all-seasons in both the dry and the wet when temperatures are higher than near-freezing.

[Le Poisson]

One more video - in before the 4X4 fans try to tell us you don't need winter tires if you have 4X4 - this pretty much disproves that as well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

[snogirl]

another yes, winter tires + its own wheels.  Michelin Ice/X get the best ratings. 
I'm running bridgstone blizzaks I purchased hardly used off CL.
On my 4th season here in Vermont.

[GuitarStv]

One point to note . . . even the shittiest/cheapest winter tires will outperform all seasons for stopping and cornering in the winter.  There's no need to spend a ton on them.

[dess1313]

I drive a 98 corolla and even on that i notice such a difference.  I drove through an intersection before dropping my car off for repairs once, and no problems on my snow tires.  perfect braking and stopping.  no spinning.  Got the rental car and almost skidded through the SAME intersection with the ABS brakes freaking out.  and i was being careful since i didn't know the car.  The last accident i almost hit the car in front of me and barely missed it.  Couldn't help the guy behind me hitting my bumper, but it went from an accident with front and back damage that may have written my car off due to its age, to just a cracked bumper that wasn't a big issue

[nereo]

I drive a 98 corolla and even on that i notice such a difference.  I drove through an intersection before dropping my car off for repairs once, and no problems on my snow tires.  perfect braking and stopping.  no spinning.  Got the rental car and almost skidded through the SAME intersection with the ABS brakes freaking out.  and i was being careful since i didn't know the car.  The last accident i almost hit the car in front of me and barely missed it.  Couldn't help the guy behind me hitting my bumper, but it went from an accident with front and back damage that may have written my car off due to its age, to just a cracked bumper that wasn't a big issue

Weird - here in Quebec all rentals are required to have snow-tires during teh colder months.  They even put a special "snow-tire charge" of a few dollars/day on your bill which I find outrageous since you don't pay a 'summer-tire' charge and winter tires aren't that much more than summer tires.

... but I relate to your story - our University has vehicles that can't be driven during the winter (they don't put snow tires on them) but occasionally we have to move them from one parking lot to another.  It's like night and day comparing similar cars with different tires.

[peeps_be_peeping]

Yes, get winter tires. They absolutely improve traction and safety. Where I live everybody runs winter tires on their cars 6 months out of the year. Around here Nokian Hakkapeliitta and Bridgestone Blizzak are the most popular unstudded tires. I have had Altimax Arctic studded tires for 7 winters and they get me where I want to go all winter.

[Syonyk]

Am I missing out on something amazing that I don't know about yet? 

Yes.  You've clearly never driven in a car with anyone with snow tires, or driven them yourself.

Find a friend with a Subaru and snow tires, and ask for a demo when it's really nasty out.  The braking, acceleration, and control that they'll have on sloppy, nasty, ice and snow, is a good percentage of dry pavement traction.  The things feel like literal magic.

=========

When I had snow tires, I just ordered them from Tire Rack with a set of stamped steel wheels.  No hubcabs.  I really liked the "gloss black steel and big snow tires" look on that car.  If you can find a cheap set of rims locally, go for it, but the Tire Rack steelies aren't that expensive, and you can swap over to the snow tires yourself.

[bobechs]

I got Haakapellitta snow tires by calling Discount Tire online using the number published in their ebay listings.  They beat the price anywhere else -including the ebay listing itself- and had them delivered free (and tax free) to the local Discount Tire brick and mortar store, which is evidently a different operation.  They would have been equally happy to deliver to any other store or my house if I wanted to haul them around myself- which I didn't.  Local store mounted and balanced for their standard charge.

I went that route because I was winter travelling from the southern plains and the local dealers were completely uninterested in selling snow tires except as a special extra expensive order.

The Hakkas are bar none the best snow tires out there. Look it up, you have the internet at your command.

The size I needed was  15x165 and four tires added up to just about $400 all included.  Good deal.  I checked.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

One point to note . . . even the shittiest/cheapest winter tires will outperform all seasons for stopping and cornering in the winter.  There's no need to spend a ton on them.

This is what I was told, so... I bought the shittiest cheapest winter tires. My car is old and I wasn't sure it would be worth a big investment. All four installed (did not bother with new rims b/c of age of car) for less than $350.

I also got mine at Discount Tire. They were far and away the cheapest price I could find.

[TheThirstyStag]

I know I'm late to the party here, but yes absolutely do it!

I'm approaching my third season on Blizzaks and couldn't be more thrilled.  It really is amazing how much of a difference winter tires make when it drops below 40 degrees.  Even if there is no snow or ice on the road, the performance enhancement is amazing since they stay pliable at low temps.

All season tires are like sneakers - Not really good to wear in the snow, and in the summer they make your feet sweaty.  Get a pair of boots for the winter and flip flops for the summer :)

[Valetta]

Following. I live in MN and had never considered snow tires. I don't really know anyone that uses them. Going to follow some of the suggestions here and look at prices now. I'm sure DH could change them himself, he's great with car repairs.

[GuitarStv]

Cool thing about swapping to snow tires is that it reduces wear on your regular tires (you're using them less) . . . So since everything lasts longer they don't end up being much more expensive to run in the end, but are much safer.

[JAYSLOL]

Yes, get winter tires. They absolutely improve traction and safety. Where I live everybody runs winter tires on their cars 6 months out of the year. Around here Nokian Hakkapeliitta and Bridgestone Blizzak are the most popular unstudded tires. I have had Altimax Arctic studded tires for 7 winters and they get me where I want to go all winter.

Another vote for snow tires on rims, and as many people have mentioned, although they aren't cheap, the Nokian Hakkapelittas, Bridgestone Blizzaks, and Michelen X-Ice are some of the best options.  Unless you do a road trip to Alaska in January, these studless tires will do everything you need and more, and you won't need to mess around with chains either. 

[frugalnacho]

Ok so i've been doing some research and getting some prices.  It seems no place wants to install a full set of wheels without the tire pressure monitoring system (tpms) in place.  Apparently they cost about $60/each, and you have to program them into your car's computer.  So my options at this point, from worst to best:

1. Buy winter tires and have them mount them on my current wheels, and just pay to switch them every time.  This is a shitty option because it requires me to make an appointment to take my car in twice a year and I have to pay to swap the tires, and also pay to reregister the tpms to the car.  Every time.  Every single person I talked to recommended this option (because they want me to pay them now, then twice every year!), even after I explained my entire purpose was to save myself money in the long run and just swap tires myself.   Initial expense of about $900 (for 2 new sets of tires), and about $200/year to constantly switch them out.

2. Buy a new set of winter wheels, plus $240 worth of tpms.  I still have to pay the dealer or tire service center to reregister the tpms twice a year.  Unacceptable.  Initial cost of about $1350, and about $100-200 recurring cost every year.

3. Buy new set of winter wheels with tpms, and buy the tool to register them myself.   This has the advantage of never needing to go into a service center, but the disadvantage of purchasing a $150 tool upfront and learning how to register my tpms myself.  This option will cost me close to $1500 upfront, with no recurring cost. 

4. Buy new set of rims without tpms installed.  I don't know if this is an option purchasing from a brick and mortar store.  I didn't ask specifically, but many sources online indicate they can't legally install a tire without tpms on newer (2007+) models.  I don't know if that's applicable in my state or not.  It seems like I can order a set online without it though (although I didn't actually go through the order process, just put it in my cart to get a total price).  This option will still cost me about $1100, but I will have no recurring costs.  Of course I won't have a tpms with my winter tires on either.

5. Get new wheels with cloneable tpms.  This way no reprogramming of the car is needed.  You just clone the 4 IDs of the current tires, and reprogram the new wheels with the same sensor IDs, then when you swap sets your car can't tell the difference and reads the same set of sensor IDs.  This will probably cost around $1500 total, and I will have to pay the service center to clone the new tpms IDs for me, but then I should be all set from that point forward.


I think option #5 is the clear winner if possible.  I am hoping I can take the car in and have new tires put on in the next week, and get them to give me the current tpms IDs, then in the next month or so I can order my new wheels/winter tires online, and hopefully have whoever I order them from preprogram my cloned IDs before they ship them.  Then I could just slap those babies on as soon as they arrive and have a fully functional tpms.

[Kitsune]

Yes, get winter tires. They absolutely improve traction and safety. Where I live everybody runs winter tires on their cars 6 months out of the year. Around here Nokian Hakkapeliitta and Bridgestone Blizzak are the most popular unstudded tires. I have had Altimax Arctic studded tires for 7 winters and they get me where I want to go all winter.

Another vote for snow tires on rims, and as many people have mentioned, although they aren't cheap, the Nokian Hakkapelittas, Bridgestone Blizzaks, and Michelen X-Ice are some of the best options.  Unless you do a road trip to Alaska in January, these studless tires will do everything you need and more, and you won't need to mess around with chains either.

Seconding a rec for the Blizzak tires if you're in a place that gets snow/ice regularly. They're pricy, but they last a long time and are MUCH better on roads.

I live in Quebec: it's actually not legal for a car registered in Quebec to be on the roads without winter tires from December to March, basically. It DOES make a difference. (Also, seriously: it's super-satisfying to go down to Maine during a snowstorm and cruise up a hill in a Honda Fit, right past the SUVs that are stuck spinning their wheels halfway up the hill...). In my experience (which may be determined by location and garage, so your milage may vary), rims are $$$ and don't lower the price of getting the tires switched out twice a year by that much... when I checked it out, it took 5+ years to break even. If you can do the work yourself and have the space to do it, obv get the tires on rims, though, because you cut the recurring expenses entirely. (I had an apartment with street parking and no space for car work, so... I paid. No other real option at the time.)

Just be sure to put the tires on as late as possible and take them off as early as possible : they're a different rubber compound than all-season tires, and, as others have pointed out, they wear out like CRAZY in warmer weather.

[nereo]

option #6).  Find a place that will mount the tires on a new (to you) set of steel rims.  DON'T have them put the tires on the car (which may trigger local regulations which require TPMS sensors if your car is a newer model).  Have them write it up as a "trailer wheel" or similar if that's what it takes (trailers don't require TPMS sensors AFAIK, and can use the same tires as passenger vehicles).  Once the tires are on the new rims, change the tires yourself with a simple torque wrench. 

...also... i've seen winter tires mounted on their own rims with their own TPMS sensors.  They can be changed by you each season.  If the TMPS sensor doesn't "talk" to the car, all you get is a dash-light which you can safely ignore (I was under the impression that once calibrated a re-calibration was never necessary).  Cars didn't have TPMS sesnors for decades and we all did ok.  Check tire pressure occasionally.  Done.

[Matt in Akron]

Wow, overwhelming support for snow tires.  I'm sold....The car is a 2010 Toyota Corolla LE... I should be able to get some kind of discount if I purchase it all from the same place at the same time.

Try your local Toyota Dealer, believe it or not.  Right now most Toyota Dealers are running a "Buy 3 tires, get the 4th for $1" promotion on tires - plus allowing you to take advantage of any mail in rebates from tire manufacturers.  Pretty great time to buy tires.

[frugalnacho]

option #6).  Find a place that will mount the tires on a new (to you) set of steel rims.  DON'T have them put the tires on the car (which may trigger local regulations which require TPMS sensors if your car is a newer model).  Have them write it up as a "trailer wheel" or similar if that's what it takes (trailers don't require TPMS sensors AFAIK, and can use the same tires as passenger vehicles).  Once the tires are on the new rims, change the tires yourself with a simple torque wrench. 

...also... i've seen winter tires mounted on their own rims with their own TPMS sensors.  They can be changed by you each season.  If the TMPS sensor doesn't "talk" to the car, all you get is a dash-light which you can safely ignore (I was under the impression that once calibrated a re-calibration was never necessary).  Cars didn't have TPMS sesnors for decades and we all did ok.  Check tire pressure occasionally.  Done.

The car's computer has memory slots for 5 ID codes (4 tires + 1 spare).  You have to clone the ID you have for it to recognize it as the same sensor.  If you don't clone them (ie you have 9 total unique tpms IDs) then you need a tool to go into the car's computer and replace the sensor IDs.  Then you need to redo it again when you swap back to the orignal set, and so on and so forth every time you swap sets.   Or you need to pay someone to do it every time.

Yes you can install a wheel without registering the tpms, or without a tpms at all (option #4), and you will just have a dash light flash when you start the car, and remain solid while the car is running.  I could deal with the light being on for 3-4 months I suppose, but it would be mildly annoying.

[nereo]

Yes you can install a wheel without registering the tpms, or without a tpms at all (option #4), and you will just have a dash light flash when you start the car, and remain solid while the car is running.  I could deal with the light being on for 3-4 months I suppose, but it would be mildly annoying.

may I suggest the Click&Clack solution of black electrical tape?

[Clean Shaven]

I use a second set of wheels for winter tires - factory wheels that I bought on craigslist. Had them mounted at Walmart, without any TPMS sensors, for about $60. I get a TPMS warning light on the dash all winter, but no big deal. Swap the wheels over myself.

[GuitarStv]

option #6).  Find a place that will mount the tires on a new (to you) set of steel rims.  DON'T have them put the tires on the car (which may trigger local regulations which require TPMS sensors if your car is a newer model).  Once the tires are on the new rims, change the tires yourself with a simple torque wrench. 

This is the best option.  (You don't actually need a torque wrench though, you can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.)

TPMS sensors are stupid.  If you just bother to check your tire pressure every month or so, they're utterly unnecessary.

[frugalnacho]

option #6).  Find a place that will mount the tires on a new (to you) set of steel rims.  DON'T have them put the tires on the car (which may trigger local regulations which require TPMS sensors if your car is a newer model).  Once the tires are on the new rims, change the tires yourself with a simple torque wrench. 

This is the best option.  (You don't actually need a torque wrench though, you can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.)

TPMS sensors are stupid.  If you just bother to check your tire pressure every month or so, they're utterly unnecessary.

I agree, it's just a matter of being annoyed by the warning light all winter every winter.  If it was only up to me I would put up with it, but it will probably annoy my wife too.  So is it worth listening to her complain about being annoyed by the light all winter?

[Syonyk]

This is the best option.  (You don't actually need a torque wrench though, you can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.)

Have you ever tried to change four tires with the utter rubbish that passes for a jack these days?  More likely than not, you'll twist the handle off as you try to get the lug nuts free, and the jack might survive for one tire, but... doing four with it?  No.

A four way tire iron and hydraulic jack are well, well worth the money if you do your own tire changes.

[GuitarStv]

This is the best option.  (You don't actually need a torque wrench though, you can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.)

Have you ever tried to change four tires with the utter rubbish that passes for a jack these days?  More likely than not, you'll twist the handle off as you try to get the lug nuts free, and the jack might survive for one tire, but... doing four with it?  No.

A four way tire iron and hydraulic jack are well, well worth the money if you do your own tire changes.

I've been using the OEM jack and tire iron that came with our 2005 Corolla to change the tires for ten years now.  No problems, and they work great.  It would probably be slightly easier with higher priced tools, but we're just talking about a 20 - 30 minute procedure twice a year to swap tires.

[frugalnacho]

This is the best option.  (You don't actually need a torque wrench though, you can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.)

Have you ever tried to change four tires with the utter rubbish that passes for a jack these days?  More likely than not, you'll twist the handle off as you try to get the lug nuts free, and the jack might survive for one tire, but... doing four with it?  No.

A four way tire iron and hydraulic jack are well, well worth the money if you do your own tire changes.

I rotate my own tires so it won't be an issue.  Rotating is like changing four tires.

[Syonyk]

I'm impressed an OEM jack and tire iron works for that long.  I've watched them fail the first time they were used, many times, which is why I carry the tire iron.  For that matter, my tire iron is slightly bent from fighting some lug nuts.

[Jack]

Screw winter tires; just drive extreme-performance summer ones all year 'round! : D

(<-- note the location. YMMV.) ; )

(Actually, that makes me wonder if I could benefit from winter tires, even this far south...?)

Ok so i've been doing some research and getting some prices.  It seems no place wants to install a full set of wheels without the tire pressure monitoring system (tpms) in place.  Apparently they cost about $60/each, and you have to program them into your car's computer.  So my options at this point, from worst to best:

[five bad options]

Option #6: sell the car, buy one old enough not to use a damn TPMS in the first place. Seriously, new cars sound like they're a total pain in the ass (for a lot of reasons, not just TPMS)!

You can change the tires with the tool and jack already in your car for putting on your spare tire.

... if you're a masochist. Otherwise, you go to Harbor Freight and get yourself a cheap-yet-decent floor jack and a breaker bar.

[eil]

Okay, so I'm a few days late but I live in SE Michigan too (I'm in Ann Arbor). And I can't for the life of me fathom why you would need dedicated snow tires here.

If you lived north of Flint or Saginaw where it typically gets colder and freezes more often, maybe. If you lived west of Lansing where lake-effect snow is practically a weekly occurrence, maybe. If you lived in a rural area where snow plows are a novelty, then sure. If you have the kind of job where you can't work from home or take the day off due to a snow day (i.e. you work for a utility or public safety), then sure.

But the Detroit suburbs get very little in the way of inclement weather compared to anywhere else in the state. And when we do get hit, the road crews usually do a decent job of getting the main roads cleaned up within 12 hours. When you have to go out, just drive carefully and watch for morons who don't.

I drive a Mazda Protege and my wife drives a Mazda 5, both with all-season tires. They are just fine in moderate ice and snow. ABS helps a lot. If we ever think the roads are questionable, we don't drive, period. Driving is already incredibly dangerous in clear weather, why compound the risk? Even if you have the great expensive super-sticky tires when the snow, rain, and death are pouring from the sky, the other guy careening into you probably doesn't.

[frugalnacho]

Okay, so I'm a few days late but I live in SE Michigan too (I'm in Ann Arbor). And I can't for the life of me fathom why you would need dedicated snow tires here.

If you lived north of Flint or Saginaw where it typically gets colder and freezes more often, maybe. If you lived west of Lansing where lake-effect snow is practically a weekly occurrence, maybe. If you lived in a rural area where snow plows are a novelty, then sure. If you have the kind of job where you can't work from home or take the day off due to a snow day (i.e. you work for a utility or public safety), then sure.

But the Detroit suburbs get very little in the way of inclement weather compared to anywhere else in the state. And when we do get hit, the road crews usually do a decent job of getting the main roads cleaned up within 12 hours. When you have to go out, just drive carefully and watch for morons who don't.

I drive a Mazda Protege and my wife drives a Mazda 5, both with all-season tires. They are just fine in moderate ice and snow. ABS helps a lot. If we ever think the roads are questionable, we don't drive, period. Driving is already incredibly dangerous in clear weather, why compound the risk? Even if you have the great expensive super-sticky tires when the snow, rain, and death are pouring from the sky, the other guy careening into you probably doesn't.

.

Because we get a solid 4 months of cold weather, ice, and snow?  The winters are absolutely terrible here. I've never had winter tires before, but I do notice significantly reduced traction during the winter months, especially during snow storms.  If I can get dedicated winter tires that will significantly improve my traction and safety during those several months, and not really cost me any extra money over the life of the car (because winter tire usage takes place of summer tires, and I plan to wear both sets out completely eventually), then why wouldn't I get dedicated tires?

[Le Poisson]

Okay, so I'm a few days late but I live in SE Michigan too (I'm in Ann Arbor). And I can't for the life of me fathom why you would need dedicated snow tires here.

If you lived north of Flint or Saginaw where it typically gets colder and freezes more often, maybe. If you lived west of Lansing where lake-effect snow is practically a weekly occurrence, maybe. If you lived in a rural area where snow plows are a novelty, then sure. If you have the kind of job where you can't work from home or take the day off due to a snow day (i.e. you work for a utility or public safety), then sure.

But the Detroit suburbs get very little in the way of inclement weather compared to anywhere else in the state. And when we do get hit, the road crews usually do a decent job of getting the main roads cleaned up within 12 hours. When you have to go out, just drive carefully and watch for morons who don't.

I drive a Mazda Protege and my wife drives a Mazda 5, both with all-season tires. They are just fine in moderate ice and snow. ABS helps a lot. If we ever think the roads are questionable, we don't drive, period. Driving is already incredibly dangerous in clear weather, why compound the risk? Even if you have the great expensive super-sticky tires when the snow, rain, and death are pouring from the sky, the other guy careening into you probably doesn't.

.

Because we get a solid 4 months of cold weather, ice, and snow?  The winters are absolutely terrible here. I've never had winter tires before, but I do notice significantly reduced traction during the winter months, especially during snow storms.  If I can get dedicated winter tires that will significantly improve my traction and safety during those several months, and not really cost me any extra money over the life of the car (because winter tire usage takes place of summer tires, and I plan to wear both sets out completely eventually), then why wouldn't I get dedicated tires?

Because when Eil is careening into you he will be laughing about all the money he saved on tires and blaming you for his collision on no-season radials. Makes you look like a fool, right! Right?

[GuitarStv]

Winter tires aren't just for snow.  They work better all the time in the cold.  It's like wearing a seatbelt.  I've only really been in one accident where I needed to have it on . . . but I'm sure glad that I had it on that time my mom rolled the car down the side of a hill.