My husband hates his job!

[frizzywhiskers]

Hello Mustachians - hoping for a little advice here!

My husband and I are empty nesters with one child (21), living in Canada, ages 43 and 45 trying to achieve Financial Independance.  We got a late start and are now focusing on paying off our mortgage while still investing and saving for retirement.  We make a combined income of about $210,000/yr (before taxes) and are at a savings rate of about 70%.  It all sounds great on paper and if we keep up at this rate we will be mortgage free by the end of 2018 and FIRE by 2023.

The big problem is that my husband hates his job.  Like he REALLY HATES his job!  I am not sure he is going to be able to hang in there until we are FIRE.  He has 2 degrees and an accounting designation and has spent 20 years advancing in his accounting career.  He is really good at what he does, but he tells me that he hates accounting.

I am trying to be a supportive wife, I have suggested that he look for a new job.  He says that any job he got would still be accounting and would be no better.  I've told him to not worry about the plan and find a job that would make him happy, he said he can't quit this close to retirement and jeopardize every thing we have.  He also doesn't know what else he'd like to do!  I've also suggested that we sell our house, move into a small condo and live off my salary.  He doesn't want to do that either.

I know he feels trapped in his job and that he doesn't want to give up making his current salary, but I don't know how to help him!  I do suggest that he just focus on getting where we need to be so we can get out.  Sometime this works for him for a little while, but eventually he just sinks back into hate again. 

Life is too short to do something you hate everyday and it breaks my heart to see him so sad, but I can't make this decision for him.

Any suggestions on getting through this would be most appreciated!

 

[MoneyStacher]

Well, if hubby hates it enough that you used capital letters, then he's got to leave it. And then he is going to need some time to decompress and clear his head. You just have to figure out how long before he reenters the work place and how you are going to swing it. Your savings rate of 70% means you are living on around 63,000/year so you need to get to about 1.5 million. With the FI dates you are providing it seems that you have a $0 current stache, is that correct? You are starting with $0 currently invested? I think we are going to need to know something about current investments so that we can make this work.

[YoungInvestor]

Out of 210k combined, how much is his salary? I feel like that'd strongly influence the possible solutions.

[frizzywhiskers]

The 210 k is before taxes, his salary is $120,000 of it.  I think we bring home around $135,000 after taxes.  We are living on about $45,000/yr and then piling money in investments and mortgage after that.  We have about $330,000 in combined investments and about $250,000 equity in our home.

[Rezdent]

I'm making some assumptions here that there is nothing clinically wrong with your husband and that he's experiencing changes related to midlife.

He can find something else or he can stay where he is.  By your description of his current analysis,  he will not be happier somewhere else.   This suggests that he could change his way of thinking about this current job - doesn't like it but it is providing value to him.  Can he change his focus from what he doesn't like to what he does?  Can he add enough value outside of work so that the job doesn't consume him?

Neither you, me, nor anyone else can make this work for him.
He needs to make decisions.

However you CAN help by continuing suggestions for alternative actions, thoughts, and visions for the future.   You can support his decision whatever he chooses.  If he chooses to be miserable you can honor his choice, but that's not the same thing as letting his misery make you unhappy.

[frizzywhiskers]

We also have a huge mortgage which is the problem.  $375,000.  Modest house in expensive canada!    I was hoping he could hang in there until at least the mortgage is gone which gives us more options!

[frizzywhiskers]

I'm making some assumptions here that there is nothing clinically wrong with your husband and that he's experiencing changes related to midlife.

He can find something else or he can stay where he is.  By your description of his current analysis,  he will not be happier somewhere else.   This suggests that he could change his way of thinking about this current job - doesn't like it but it is providing value to him.  Can he change his focus from what he doesn't like to what he does?  Can he add enough value outside of work so that the job doesn't consume him?

Neither you, me, nor anyone else can make this work for him.
He needs to make decisions.

However you CAN help by continuing suggestions for alternative actions, thoughts, and visions for the future.   You can support his decision whatever he chooses.  If he chooses to be miserable you can honor his choice, but that's not the same thing as letting his misery make you unhappy.

You are so right on the money with this!  I think he needs to choose to be happy and that's really hard for him!  He is also struggling with finding interests outside of work.  He's exhausted when he gets home and just wants to watch tv which doesn't help matters much!

[genselecus]

What if he tries writing down a list of pros and cons about his job? There may be a way to remove (or reduce) the negative aspects of his job while still maintaining a good, or perhaps somewhat reduced, salary. Maybe he can reduce hours, switch to a new group/manager, etc. If anything, it will help him identify the things he would really want to look for in a new job.

[Metta]

That is an awfully long time to do something you hate. I am fairly sick of my job and during some of the high work periods I just want to do something drastic. (All the motivating self-talk in the world has not made it better.) However, knowing that if it gets desperate I can leave once the mortgage is gone (June, most likely) and that I can definitely leave in 1 year and 10 months is extremely soothing to my soul. Having a definite time to work towards has helped cheer me up immeasurably. Is that something you two can figure out? Could he leave once the mortgage is paid off?

[Rezdent]

I'm making some assumptions here that there is nothing clinically wrong with your husband and that he's experiencing changes related to midlife.

He can find something else or he can stay where he is.  By your description of his current analysis,  he will not be happier somewhere else.   This suggests that he could change his way of thinking about this current job - doesn't like it but it is providing value to him.  Can he change his focus from what he doesn't like to what he does?  Can he add enough value outside of work so that the job doesn't consume him?

Neither you, me, nor anyone else can make this work for him.
He needs to make decisions.

However you CAN help by continuing suggestions for alternative actions, thoughts, and visions for the future.   You can support his decision whatever he chooses.  If he chooses to be miserable you can honor his choice, but that's not the same thing as letting his misery make you unhappy.

You are so right on the money with this!  I think he needs to choose to be happy and that's really hard for him!  He is also struggling with finding interests outside of work.  He's exhausted when he gets home and just wants to watch tv which doesn't help matters much!

Sounds like this is more than just job hate.

Hates job + exhaustion + lots of TV = discuss with his doctor.  He will probably resist.  You might talk him into it - but he's still got to choose to do it.

Could you get him to commit to a regular activity outside the house with you once per week?  Some type of exercise is best, but anything is better than nothing.

[caliq]

I'm making some assumptions here that there is nothing clinically wrong with your husband and that he's experiencing changes related to midlife.

He can find something else or he can stay where he is.  By your description of his current analysis,  he will not be happier somewhere else.   This suggests that he could change his way of thinking about this current job - doesn't like it but it is providing value to him.  Can he change his focus from what he doesn't like to what he does?  Can he add enough value outside of work so that the job doesn't consume him?

Neither you, me, nor anyone else can make this work for him.
He needs to make decisions.

However you CAN help by continuing suggestions for alternative actions, thoughts, and visions for the future.   You can support his decision whatever he chooses.  If he chooses to be miserable you can honor his choice, but that's not the same thing as letting his misery make you unhappy.

You are so right on the money with this!  I think he needs to choose to be happy and that's really hard for him!  He is also struggling with finding interests outside of work.  He's exhausted when he gets home and just wants to watch tv which doesn't help matters much!

Sounds like this is more than just job hate.

Hates job + exhaustion + lots of TV = discuss with his doctor.  He will probably resist.  You might talk him into it - but he's still got to choose to do it.

Could you get him to commit to a regular activity outside the house with you once per week?  Some type of exercise is best, but anything is better than nothing.

+1 

Also, if he is having a medical issue (physiological or psychological), telling him to "just choose to be happy" is really not going to be helpful.

[frizzywhiskers]

I'm making some assumptions here that there is nothing clinically wrong with your husband and that he's experiencing changes related to midlife.

He can find something else or he can stay where he is.  By your description of his current analysis,  he will not be happier somewhere else.   This suggests that he could change his way of thinking about this current job - doesn't like it but it is providing value to him.  Can he change his focus from what he doesn't like to what he does?  Can he add enough value outside of work so that the job doesn't consume him?

Neither you, me, nor anyone else can make this work for him.
He needs to make decisions.

However you CAN help by continuing suggestions for alternative actions, thoughts, and visions for the future.   You can support his decision whatever he chooses.  If he chooses to be miserable you can honor his choice, but that's not the same thing as letting his misery make you unhappy.

You are so right on the money with this!  I think he needs to choose to be happy and that's really hard for him!  He is also struggling with finding interests outside of work.  He's exhausted when he gets home and just wants to watch tv which doesn't help matters much!

Sounds like this is more than just job hate.

Hates job + exhaustion + lots of TV = discuss with his doctor.  He will probably resist.  You might talk him into it - but he's still got to choose to do it.

Could you get him to commit to a regular activity outside the house with you once per week?  Some type of exercise is best, but anything is better than nothing.

+1 

Also, if he is having a medical issue (physiological or psychological), telling him to "just choose to be happy" is really not going to be helpful.

All good points, thanks everyone!  He does exercise a few times a week and he also curls so he is doing something besides work, he's just lacking in a few extra hobbies that might be helpful.  He's always been a fairly big tv watcher and I know that's what helps him relax.  He is very happy on the weekends and on vacations so I'm not sure it's medical but it's definitely something to look into.

I think I'll suggest the list of pros and cons and see if that can put things in a different prospective for him!

Thanks so much for your replies everyone!  Much appreciated!

[Schaefer Light]

Your husband sounds a lot like me (except for the Canadian part ;).  I feel like I'm at a similar crossroads.  Maybe it's just a mid-life crisis and everything will be fine in a couple of years.  I'm very happy on weekends and even more so on vacations, but the workweek just sucks the life out of me.  It gets really bad for me in the winter when there's no time to play golf or even go for a walk after work. 

I've still got about a decade until FI, and I don't know if I can make it that long before reaching a breaking point.  I guess time will tell.

[morning owl]

Dear frizzywhiskers,

I feel for you on this one. My DH and I are in a very similar situation. We have an expensive house in an expensive city and my husband has the golden handcuffs. We haven't solved it yet, but maybe it will help to hear how we are trying to deal with it...

Our situation is slightly different in that the salaries are even more unbalanced. I love what I do, but make literally 1/10 of what he makes. I have thought and suggested to him that I look for a higher paying job, which would mean both of us are miserable. If I managed to get a high enough paying job that could cover our expenses, then he could quit, but it would still be a fraction of what he is currently making, and I would be stuck in it for much longer before we could be FI. He says he can't leave his current job because he is making a lot of money at it, and if he leaves he will be doing the same thing for much less, if he could even manage to find work at all. He also comes home exhausted every night and just wants to watch TV. His job is a huge drain on him, physically and emotionally. IF he can hang in for just 3 more years then we will be FI on paper, but three years at being miserable and stressed out every day might not be worth it. I am worried for his health, and we have a deal that if it ever starts to effect him physically then he has to quit or take a stress leave.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the unknown that scares him. Quitting a high paying job for who knows what is really frightening. I believe he has accepted this situation because of this fear. We've talked about the dozens of alternatives -- selling the house and downsizing (which, like you say, is hard to do in Canada. For us it would mean living in a condo, and neither of us trust the condo market right now, so it doesn't seem like a wise move... or moving to the 'burbs, which my husband refuses to do.)

All you can do is be supportive. In the end, it is his choice to make. You've provided alternative situations. Sometimes I wonder if my DH just lacks vision -- I can envision all sorts of alternative realities, but for him, living in a business world where people save tens of millions before they retire with multiple homes in fancy locations, it probably really scares him to make any sort of sudden leap. We are already oddballs among his peers because we live the way we do. We don't play golf, or drive nice cars, or travel very much. (Which is fine -- he doesn't feel any pressure to do this, but it does make me realize that his work world has a culture that makes it difficult to envision something that, for him, would be so radically different as downsizing to a condo or the suburbs and living on a budget.) I can try to strengthen these alternatives but it is up to him to accept this vision as an option.

So currently he is succumbing to the fact that he will keep his job until they let him go or until we meet some magical number and can be FI. I also worry that reaching this number won't be enough of a reason for him to leave... I can see him having OMY syndrome, even when we reach the number that we've talked about.

To release stress it's SUPER important to eat well and exercise, and he has finally realized this. He's cut out caffeine and sugar, and tries to go for a run or do a workout video a couple times a week. He feels the difference when he does this, so that's the main thing.

We have friends who've switched careers in their 40s and it's taken them about a year for them to decompress and figure out what to do next. I fully expect this to be the case for my husband. The more stressful and draining the career, the longer it will take to figure it all out. I know this scares my husband as well, because right now he can't even think about the 'what next,' and being unemployed for so long will stress him out as well. He has to reach a point where he can actually accept this idea too -- that it's ok to not be working for a while, that he will eventually figure out what to do next, though I can totally see him sitting on the couch for an entire year watching sports! I have to learn to be OK with that possibility, too. It all takes time.

I'm very fortunate in that I know what I want to do with my life and I am already doing it. FI wouldn't even concern me if it weren't for the fact that my husband hates his job. But I'm doing what I can to facilitate the next stage -- by offering alternative visions, by being OK with whatever he needs to do but nudging him to quit, by keeping costs down so that I'm not a super spendy extravagant wife that he feels the need to support, etc. I feel like that's all I can do.

Please keep me posted, I would love to know how your situation develops. It's really hard to see the one you love be miserable day after day.

[mak1277]

Your husband sounds a lot like me (except for the Canadian part ;).  I feel like I'm at a similar crossroads.  Maybe it's just a mid-life crisis and everything will be fine in a couple of years.  I'm very happy on weekends and even more so on vacations, but the workweek just sucks the life out of me.  It gets really bad for me in the winter when there's no time to play golf or even go for a walk after work. 

I am in the same boat.  Just turned 38 and I'm really struggling with finding any enjoyment at work.  I'm beginning to think it might be a mid-life crisis type of thing.

I'm also an accountant, so I understand that aspect of it. Does he work for a public accounting firm or in industry?  I moved out of public accounting into industry about 18 months ago and while I still don't love work, it was a great switch.  Less travel, less stress, less overtime, and I'm able to focus on hobbies and just "life" instead of being consumed by work and exhausted at the end of every day.

Also, moving to industry might open doors for him to move from pure accounting into operations, finance, etc....something that uses his skills but is still a little different.  Just a thought.

[DoubleDown]

Can I just say you sound like the Best. Wife. Ever?

I mean, giving him all kinds of options including moving and covering things on your own salary so he won't be miserable? Tremendous.

I wish my own wife was as <ahem> supportive as you in such matters!

[MayDay]

My H is 39 and hates his job.  I stay at home, and am very slowly getting back into paid work as our youngest is starting K next fall.  We've kicked around how I can earn more to relieve his burden but the reality is we would have to make significant changes (moving to a much worse school district most likely) that he does not want to do. 

He has been complaining about his job for over a year, looking at job postings, and grumbling that he doesn't want to do them either (basically exchanging one job he dislikes for another one that he is ambivalent at best).  He can't get up the energy to bother applying for other jobs that he is sure he will dislike. 

It is frustrating as the spouse, because he wants to complain and vent, and is crabby and tired sometimes after work, yet he won't DO anything about it. 

But, I can happily report that H decided to take a vacation day next week and apply for some interesting jobs he found.  So maybe we are reaching a light at the end of the Tunnel Of Crabbiness. 

[James]

My only suggestion would be to make sure he knows how the current situation is affecting you. And you need to make sure you realize how much the current situation is affecting you.

He may have decided this is the right way to go, he just hates it, and hates it with a passion. He has decided the right thing is to stick it out, but he hates it. In that case you need to decide if you can tolerate the situation. If not, then you need to let him know it isn't about him, it's about you. Maybe a change needs to be made for your sake, and don't try to convince him it is about helping him at that point. It may be you who can tolerate him hating his job, not him.

It's ok to not be completely focused on him through this, being married to someone who hates their job doesn't just affect them. Not saying you need to make ultimatums or take control,and maybe in the end it doesn't change anything, he just needs to know if the situation is not tolerable for you.

My best advice after saying all that is counseling. Not to "fix" anything, but just to bring about the communication you both need to figure this out. Maybe nothing changes, but I think you need to work through this in a bigger and more substantial way.

[frizzywhiskers]

Your husband sounds a lot like me (except for the Canadian part ;).  I feel like I'm at a similar crossroads.  Maybe it's just a mid-life crisis and everything will be fine in a couple of years.  I'm very happy on weekends and even more so on vacations, but the workweek just sucks the life out of me.  It gets really bad for me in the winter when there's no time to play golf or even go for a walk after work. 

I've still got about a decade until FI, and I don't know if I can make it that long before reaching a breaking point.  I guess time will tell.

Sounds very much like my husband!  Work is literally sucking the life out of him!  We have almost a decade to go as well.....wishing you the best of luck in hanging in there as well!

[frizzywhiskers]

Can I just say you sound like the Best. Wife. Ever?

I mean, giving him all kinds of options including moving and covering things on your own salary so he won't be miserable? Tremendous.

I wish my own wife was as <ahem> supportive as you in such matters!

Ha ha!  Thanks!  That actually just made my day! :)

[frizzywhiskers]

Dear frizzywhiskers,

I feel for you on this one. My DH and I are in a very similar situation. We have an expensive house in an expensive city and my husband has the golden handcuffs. We haven't solved it yet, but maybe it will help to hear how we are trying to deal with it...

Our situation is slightly different in that the salaries are even more unbalanced. I love what I do, but make literally 1/10 of what he makes. I have thought and suggested to him that I look for a higher paying job, which would mean both of us are miserable. If I managed to get a high enough paying job that could cover our expenses, then he could quit, but it would still be a fraction of what he is currently making, and I would be stuck in it for much longer before we could be FI. He says he can't leave his current job because he is making a lot of money at it, and if he leaves he will be doing the same thing for much less, if he could even manage to find work at all. He also comes home exhausted every night and just wants to watch TV. His job is a huge drain on him, physically and emotionally. IF he can hang in for just 3 more years then we will be FI on paper, but three years at being miserable and stressed out every day might not be worth it. I am worried for his health, and we have a deal that if it ever starts to effect him physically then he has to quit or take a stress leave.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the unknown that scares him. Quitting a high paying job for who knows what is really frightening. I believe he has accepted this situation because of this fear. We've talked about the dozens of alternatives -- selling the house and downsizing (which, like you say, is hard to do in Canada. For us it would mean living in a condo, and neither of us trust the condo market right now, so it doesn't seem like a wise move... or moving to the 'burbs, which my husband refuses to do.)

All you can do is be supportive. In the end, it is his choice to make. You've provided alternative situations. Sometimes I wonder if my DH just lacks vision -- I can envision all sorts of alternative realities, but for him, living in a business world where people save tens of millions before they retire with multiple homes in fancy locations, it probably really scares him to make any sort of sudden leap. We are already oddballs among his peers because we live the way we do. We don't play golf, or drive nice cars, or travel very much. (Which is fine -- he doesn't feel any pressure to do this, but it does make me realize that his work world has a culture that makes it difficult to envision something that, for him, would be so radically different as downsizing to a condo or the suburbs and living on a budget.) I can try to strengthen these alternatives but it is up to him to accept this vision as an option.

So currently he is succumbing to the fact that he will keep his job until they let him go or until we meet some magical number and can be FI. I also worry that reaching this number won't be enough of a reason for him to leave... I can see him having OMY syndrome, even when we reach the number that we've talked about.

To release stress it's SUPER important to eat well and exercise, and he has finally realized this. He's cut out caffeine and sugar, and tries to go for a run or do a workout video a couple times a week. He feels the difference when he does this, so that's the main thing.

We have friends who've switched careers in their 40s and it's taken them about a year for them to decompress and figure out what to do next. I fully expect this to be the case for my husband. The more stressful and draining the career, the longer it will take to figure it all out. I know this scares my husband as well, because right now he can't even think about the 'what next,' and being unemployed for so long will stress him out as well. He has to reach a point where he can actually accept this idea too -- that it's ok to not be working for a while, that he will eventually figure out what to do next, though I can totally see him sitting on the couch for an entire year watching sports! I have to learn to be OK with that possibility, too. It all takes time.

I'm very fortunate in that I know what I want to do with my life and I am already doing it. FI wouldn't even concern me if it weren't for the fact that my husband hates his job. But I'm doing what I can to facilitate the next stage -- by offering alternative visions, by being OK with whatever he needs to do but nudging him to quit, by keeping costs down so that I'm not a super spendy extravagant wife that he feels the need to support, etc. I feel like that's all I can do.

Please keep me posted, I would love to know how your situation develops. It's really hard to see the one you love be miserable day after day.

Thank you for such a heartfelt reply!!  It does sound very much like our situations are similar! I do believe you are right, being there for them with love and support is the best we can do!

[frizzywhiskers]

Your husband sounds a lot like me (except for the Canadian part ;).  I feel like I'm at a similar crossroads.  Maybe it's just a mid-life crisis and everything will be fine in a couple of years.  I'm very happy on weekends and even more so on vacations, but the workweek just sucks the life out of me.  It gets really bad for me in the winter when there's no time to play golf or even go for a walk after work. 

I am in the same boat.  Just turned 38 and I'm really struggling with finding any enjoyment at work.  I'm beginning to think it might be a mid-life crisis type of thing.

I'm also an accountant, so I understand that aspect of it. Does he work for a public accounting firm or in industry?  I moved out of public accounting into industry about 18 months ago and while I still don't love work, it was a great switch.  Less travel, less stress, less overtime, and I'm able to focus on hobbies and just "life" instead of being consumed by work and exhausted at the end of every day.

Also, moving to industry might open doors for him to move from pure accounting into operations, finance, etc....something that uses his skills but is still a little different.  Just a thought.

He works in the food industry.  I have suggested switching to an entirely different industry to see if that would help, but this is the industry he knows well and is comfortable in.  There seems to be a familiar trend in this thread - job hate at mid life! Hmmmmm! :)  Good luck to you as well!

[frizzywhiskers]

My H is 39 and hates his job.  I stay at home, and am very slowly getting back into paid work as our youngest is starting K next fall.  We've kicked around how I can earn more to relieve his burden but the reality is we would have to make significant changes (moving to a much worse school district most likely) that he does not want to do. 

He has been complaining about his job for over a year, looking at job postings, and grumbling that he doesn't want to do them either (basically exchanging one job he dislikes for another one that he is ambivalent at best).  He can't get up the energy to bother applying for other jobs that he is sure he will dislike. 

It is frustrating as the spouse, because he wants to complain and vent, and is crabby and tired sometimes after work, yet he won't DO anything about it. 

But, I can happily report that H decided to take a vacation day next week and apply for some interesting jobs he found.  So maybe we are reaching a light at the end of the Tunnel Of Crabbiness.

Sounds like there are a lot of good wives on this forum! :o)  How wonderful of you to want to relieve the burden!  I hope you are nearing the end of the tunnel!

[frizzywhiskers]

My only suggestion would be to make sure he knows how the current situation is affecting you. And you need to make sure you realize how much the current situation is affecting you.

He may have decided this is the right way to go, he just hates it, and hates it with a passion. He has decided the right thing is to stick it out, but he hates it. In that case you need to decide if you can tolerate the situation. If not, then you need to let him know it isn't about him, it's about you. Maybe a change needs to be made for your sake, and don't try to convince him it is about helping him at that point. It may be you who can tolerate him hating his job, not him.

It's ok to not be completely focused on him through this, being married to someone who hates their job doesn't just affect them. Not saying you need to make ultimatums or take control,and maybe in the end it doesn't change anything, he just needs to know if the situation is not tolerable for you.

My best advice after saying all that is counseling. Not to "fix" anything, but just to bring about the communication you both need to figure this out. Maybe nothing changes, but I think you need to work through this in a bigger and more substantial way.

Thank you for this!  Very good points, sometimes we focus so much on the other person we neglect what it is doing to us and our marriage!  We have had a lot of communication on this as it has been an ongoing theme for the past few years.  Appreciate your thoughts!

[iknownothing]

How about looking at this from another angle. You are empty nesters living in a pretty expensive house. Granted, I have no knowledge of your area and what kind of house you are currently living in, but is downsizing an option? It could cut your expenses dramatically and help you reach FI much sooner. Maybe that would be a good motivator, seeing that FI could be reached in 4 years instead of 10? I obviously just made up those numbers, but maybe worth looking into and running the numbers yourself.

[frizzywhiskers]

How about looking at this from another angle. You are empty nesters living in a pretty expensive house. Granted, I have no knowledge of your area and what kind of house you are currently living in, but is downsizing an option? It could cut your expenses dramatically and help you reach FI much sooner. Maybe that would be a good motivator, seeing that FI could be reached in 4 years instead of 10? I obviously just made up those numbers, but maybe worth looking into and running the numbers yourself.

We do have an eventual downsize in our plan where we will sell our current house and move into a condo.  This was going to coincide with our retirement date.  We just built this home in 2013 as a downsize from our previous home and need to stay here for at least 5 yrs to get the value out of it.  For sure something to think about though! 

[CU Tiger]

Once my husband told me that every day I came home from a job I hated in a rage or a depressed mess. He said it was not much fun wondering which wife was coming home, the angry one or the weepy one. It was not said in a hurtful way, but in a serious way, to let me know how It made him feel.

Could you have that discussion with your husband?

I left that job soon after. He was right, it was not a good fit for me and life is both too short and too long to voluntarily be miserable. Or to make your loved one miserable too.

[Bolshevik Artizan]

My H is 39 and hates his job.  I stay at home, and am very slowly getting back into paid work as our youngest is starting K next fall.  We've kicked around how I can earn more to relieve his burden but the reality is we would have to make significant changes (moving to a much worse school district most likely) that he does not want to do. 

He has been complaining about his job for over a year, looking at job postings, and grumbling that he doesn't want to do them either (basically exchanging one job he dislikes for another one that he is ambivalent at best).  He can't get up the energy to bother applying for other jobs that he is sure he will dislike. 

It is frustrating as the spouse, because he wants to complain and vent, and is crabby and tired sometimes after work, yet he won't DO anything about it. 

But, I can happily report that H decided to take a vacation day next week and apply for some interesting jobs he found.  So maybe we are reaching a light at the end of the Tunnel Of Crabbiness.

Sounds like there are a lot of good wives on this forum! :o)  How wonderful of you to want to relieve the burden!  I hope you are nearing the end of the tunnel!

Just wanted to second this point. Please see my thread on our situation, which is v similar and also in Canada, only I am the husband that wants to change job!!!

[Vilgan]

An important thing in this position imo is to feel like you have options. Figure out what they are, then try something. Some random options to consider:

1) Change to a very similar job. New company can feel like a breath of fresh air, even if the work still sucks. Might only last 6-12 months, but they then you are a year further down the road
2) Figure out all the jobs with similar skills and pick one. Doing accounting? Can you do accounting as a consultant and bounce around? Can you teach? Can you audit other people's work instead of doing the drudgery yourself?
3) Move! Hey, maybe consider moving somewhere that is super cheap to live.
4) Stop working so hard. Go in, give a solid 6 hours effort and then 2 hours relaxing/reading/doing stuff you want to do. Or less, whatever. It seems like it is a LOT harder to get fired than people expect.

Just some random ideas. I was in a rut for a bit because I hated where I lived, but then I moved and life has been 100x better since then. The hardest part for the wife was just really thinking that she had options and that she wasn't stuck where she was. It was easy after she got over that hump.

[frizzywhiskers]

An important thing in this position imo is to feel like you have options. Figure out what they are, then try something. Some random options to consider:

1) Change to a very similar job. New company can feel like a breath of fresh air, even if the work still sucks. Might only last 6-12 months, but they then you are a year further down the road
2) Figure out all the jobs with similar skills and pick one. Doing accounting? Can you do accounting as a consultant and bounce around? Can you teach? Can you audit other people's work instead of doing the drudgery yourself?
3) Move! Hey, maybe consider moving somewhere that is super cheap to live.
4) Stop working so hard. Go in, give a solid 6 hours effort and then 2 hours relaxing/reading/doing stuff you want to do. Or less, whatever. It seems like it is a LOT harder to get fired than people expect.

Just some random ideas. I was in a rut for a bit because I hated where I lived, but then I moved and life has been 100x better since then. The hardest part for the wife was just really thinking that she had options and that she wasn't stuck where she was. It was easy after she got over that hump.

Good points to consider!  Thanks!

[frizzywhiskers]

Once my husband told me that every day I came home from a job I hated in a rage or a depressed mess. He said it was not much fun wondering which wife was coming home, the angry one or the weepy one. It was not said in a hurtful way, but in a serious way, to let me know how It made him feel.

Could you have that discussion with your husband?

I left that job soon after. He was right, it was not a good fit for me and life is both too short and too long to voluntarily be miserable. Or to make your loved one miserable too.

We have had this discussion, he is quite conscious of trying not to bring his grumpiness and stress home.  But of course it doesn't always work!  I just feel bad for him overall but we will get it figured out!  Thanks for your prospective!

[CommonCents]

He has been complaining about his job for over a year, looking at job postings, and grumbling that he doesn't want to do them either (basically exchanging one job he dislikes for another one that he is ambivalent at best).  He can't get up the energy to bother applying for other jobs that he is sure he will dislike. 

It is frustrating as the spouse, because he wants to complain and vent, and is crabby and tired sometimes after work, yet he won't DO anything about it. 

OP, my husband has this exact issue as well.  This is partially why I stumbled across and joined this forum.  He was miserable at his last job and didn't like his boss' management techniques so I encouraged him to move.  He interviewed at one job and took it.  He's now been there for 4.3 years, and in my armchair diagnosis, he's been depressed for 3 of them.  We got married in 2012 and a friend of mine even told me then that I should threaten to call of the wedding unless he agreed to counseling (by himself or couples). 

So what MayDay says in particular resonates - he says he has no energy to apply elsewhere so he's stuck in a terrible rut.  He says all the time that *this time* he means it and he is going to go.  Yet he thinks he's not suited for any job beyond the type he's doing (which is ridiculous, he's got fantastic qualifications), and he won't take a single step to look elsewhere after something that fell in his lap didn't pan out (he could have gotten a job there if he had wanted it).  This means he complains ALL THE TIME, which is really unbelievably hard for a spouse.  (Oddly he actually recognizes that his friends may not want to hear about it every time that he sees them, so he's started censoring himself there, but he doesn't recognize or acknowledge the toll this takes on me, or do anything to help himself to help me.  And this is without even considering putting my life dreams on hold - I'm 35, he's 39, and we aren't able to think about having kids yet because he doesn't think we have the time or money for them, and I'm afraid we're running out of time.)  He refuses to see a counselor, refuses to see a doctor and refuses to accept that drugs could potentially help him.

Another problem is he doesn't believe he'll be able to retire early so he believes there is no end in sight.  It doesn't help he literally doesn't believe me when I say "Here's how much we have.  Here's the figures for each account" and disagrees with all of my assumptions about the future.

At some point, I realized that MY highest goal is actually taking care of me, not him.  Put your air mask on first on the plane, then...  By this, I mean that I had to make sure that his depressed black rain cloud didn't obliterate me in it's path.  So it means that sometimes, I don't feel guilty if I've decided to go out with friends when he's been in a very dark mood for a while.  I don't take responsibility for his lack of activities beyond playing Minecraft and Hearthstone.  (I do plan activities with our friends, but I don't personally internalize it when he's deeply sad that we stopped playing soccer ~4 years ago because the team fell apart and we didn't have enough players.)  And yes it's important to listen, but sometimes, I have to just let the words wash over me and not try to engage him so much in trying to fix things or talk through the issues that are bothering him.  (I haven't yet joined a support group myself although trust me, I've considered it.)

I have noticed that getting more sleep, eating healthy, and getting outside to exercise helps a little, so I have tried to incorporate healthier meals in our rotation, I've been trying to get us more sleep, and to get him outside for things like a walk or ice skate every so often.

So my advice is: Be supportive, but keep yourself afloat - don't let yourself drown trying to help him.  Focus on the things you can change and not the things you can't (his job).  Create your own
support group.

P.S. This week has been worse than normal.

[train_writer]

You are so helpful to him!
I don't have a similar experience, but the first thing that came to mind when I did not feel well at work was applying for an immediate 3 weeks break. Granted, that won't be enough for your husband probably. But there may be an option to quit his job or take a year leave? Just to create some 'space', some energy to explore other options, to 'be able to hear yourself think again'?
Because it sounds like his job is currently so draining that he needs recovery (time; change of scenery maybe?) to even think about other options.

[markum9]

One quick point that I don't think anyone brought up...

Do you think you could find a career coach/councelor for your husband to talk to?  It may be helpful to have an objective third party to help find potential career options out there that he has yet to explore.  Also, even if he's not fully qualified at this time for a different field or role, working to gain experience or taking classes towards making a career move may help give him a light at the end of the tunnel that he can focus his energy on.

[Goldielocks]

I don't know where you are, but ensure this is not aggravated by SADD ( lack of sun) which hits us more often as we age. On the coast it is a real problem. Regina and Winnipeg, not so much.

Another trick to enjoyong work more is to take lunch walk while literally keeping you chin up, and the best one.  : Firing yourself without actually quitting.

I discovered this when I was totally burnt out and about to take medical stress leave,   Just stop doing 1/3 of the things you normally do that you don't like. , like email or certain forms and reports. Just stop and then tell seine that you made a mess and need help. Then start leaving at exactly 7.5 hrs per day. 

I did this as a last resort as I could not actually get more done. And you know what?  They keep giving me more money increases and large bonuses. I don't get it but I think relaxing about work and doing a lot less with less stress increased my profile or something.

Most people can get through a 7+ hr day if they leave it and thinking about it work.

To help, schedule fun or volunteer things at 5 pm sharp. It is always easier to leave when people rely on you. He could join a non profit community board  or read to kids or anything at all.

[Lmoot]

Just make sure the stress is not taking a toll on his health (ex: heart, blood pressure, mental state--anxiety). As someone who got out of situation that was stressful to me, I am still recovering from the health ramifications of staying much longer than I should have (lingering panic attacks which developed only last year, at the height of my work-related stress).

If his health is being compromised, he needs to get to work on an exit plan NOW. Even if he takes a lower-paying wage, it would be less financially devastating than a trip to the ER plus a catscan to make sure the blood vessels in your head didn't pop due to your 232/115 BP, like my sister experienced a week ago. She is still in the same job I left 6 months ago (same exact position also). She's an otherwise perfectly healthy 38 YO with no major medical history, petite, eats healthy and works out, and is now on short-term (hopefully) BP medication at her young age. It was a very scary situation and it forced her to realize that she's working to kill herself. There's no point in working hard to provide for your family if you'll be dead soon.

[kathrynd]

Hello Mustachians - hoping for a little advice here!

My husband and I are empty nesters with one child (21), living in Canada, ages 43 and 45 trying to achieve Financial Independance.  We got a late start and are now focusing on paying off our mortgage while still investing and saving for retirement.  We make a combined income of about $210,000/yr (before taxes) and are at a savings rate of about 70%.  It all sounds great on paper and if we keep up at this rate we will be mortgage free by the end of 2018 and FIRE by 2023.

The big problem is that my husband hates his job.  Like he REALLY HATES his job!  I am not sure he is going to be able to hang in there until we are FIRE.  He has 2 degrees and an accounting designation and has spent 20 years advancing in his accounting career.  He is really good at what he does, but he tells me that he hates accounting.

I am trying to be a supportive wife, I have suggested that he look for a new job.  He says that any job he got would still be accounting and would be no better.  I've told him to not worry about the plan and find a job that would make him happy, he said he can't quit this close to retirement and jeopardize every thing we have.  He also doesn't know what else he'd like to do!  I've also suggested that we sell our house, move into a small condo and live off my salary.  He doesn't want to do that either.

I know he feels trapped in his job and that he doesn't want to give up making his current salary, but I don't know how to help him!  I do suggest that he just focus on getting where we need to be so we can get out.  Sometime this works for him for a little while, but eventually he just sinks back into hate again. 

Life is too short to do something you hate everyday and it breaks my heart to see him so sad, but I can't make this decision for him.

Any suggestions on getting through this would be most appreciated!

Are both of you taking advantage of maximizing your RRSP's?

It sounds like your husband really needs to quit this job.
Maybe not today, but have a close enough end date, so the job is at least bearable.

You may need to either sell or rent your home, and move into something cheap.
That will speed up your saving. Don't worry about what your friends or family will say.

When our 4 children left the nest, we turned our 4 bed home into a rental, and bought a 5 unit at house.
It is certainly nothing fancy, but it allows us to live basically rent free.
Our adult children live in the other 4 units, and split the costs (Our portion was the down payment)

Depending on how bad you want something, you are willing to sacrifice some things.
We used all the equity in our house, to use as down payments on several  rental properties.
We both quit work, and live off rental income.
As we are still aggressively paying off mortgages, we do live on a very small income.

However, it is worth it.

[rdy4er]

I am in a similar situation, I was working as a cargo pilot at a job I hated. I recently left to try working as a domestic, passenger pilot, thinking maybe the change would make it tolerable. Now I am working for 1/5 the pay and can't stand it. I was close to FI. I should of stayed in the original job for 3 years more and been done. Now I'm wondering what to do.

[frugal rph]

My husband has had a job like this for years. He progressed from moderate stress to pure misery. He developed insomnia and numerous other health problems. He would also come home from work and either veg out in front of the TV, go to sleep, or rant about how terrible his life is. He also had no energy for anything else. I begged him for years to quit, work part-time, start fixing up rental houses or not work at all.  I earn enough to easily support us and our stache is $900,000+.  He just kept at his job.

 The toll on our life was terrible. We finally separated last summer.  He had become unbearable to live with and refused to do anything about it. I had to look out for me and the kids.  I feel terrible for him, but he won't do anything about his situation. His parents and brother have tried to talk him into making a change, but he just won't.  He is an angry shell of the man I married.

To the OP, FI is not worth the sacrifice of your family's happiness. I hope your husband can make some changes whether they are at work or through therapy.  I went to counseling myself when he either wouldn't go at all or constantly cancel due to work obligations.  It helped me a lot.  Good luck.

[kathrynd]

My husband has had a job like this for years. He progressed from moderate stress to pure misery. He developed insomnia and numerous other health problems. He would also come home from work and either veg out in front of the TV, go to sleep, or rant about how terrible his life is. He also had no energy for anything else. I begged him for years to quit, work part-time, start fixing up rental houses or not work at all.  I earn enough to easily support us and our stache is $900,000+.  He just kept at his job.

 The toll on our life was terrible. We finally separated last summer.  He had become unbearable to live with and refused to do anything about it. I had to look out for me and the kids.  I feel terrible for him, but he won't do anything about his situation. His parents and brother have tried to talk him into making a change, but he just won't.  He is an angry shell of the man I married.

To the OP, FI is not worth the sacrifice of your family's happiness. I hope your husband can make some changes whether they are at work or through therapy.  I went to counseling myself when he either wouldn't go at all or constantly cancel due to work obligations.  It helped me a lot.  Good luck.

This sounds like clinical depression.

Anger is a big symptom , when men are depressed.
I went thru this a couple of years ago.

Medication has helped....a LOT.

[frizzywhiskers]

Thanks everyone for all your replies and insight!  Lots of good points to consider!  What a great forum this is!

[rdy4er]

I'm someone who hated his job, but I decided to take and downsize to more relaxed job that I work 100% from home, at my kitchen table, drinking a cup of coffee.   Doing so will add about 3-4 years to my FI date... but ultimately I decided that it's not enough just to reach FI - I want to get there in one piece.  I don't want to be a worn-out dish rag that has all this money... my 2 cents.

I would love to work from home, where do you find legit work from home jobs

[Wendyimhome]

Much of what you describe is unfortunately not that uncommon amongst professionals in their 40s.  However, it sounds like depression is clearly at work here as well.  He should try to work out a sabattical (2-3 months off work).  If the employer values him, it will make this work.  During that time, he needs to get in to see a psychiatrist, get on some medication (and hopefully get some face to face counseling as well), and he will probably find that he has a better and healthier perspective as he eases back into the saddle.  All jokes aside, Xanax works wonders when the stress gets high, and a baseline med (Paxil, Zoloft, or whatever the doc calls for) is probably needed to.

You also should downsize that house - now.  If you could sell it and invest another $100 - 150K or so towards retirement, it would do wonders for his mental health.  Just knowing that the "go to hell" fund is closer to where it needs to be is quite therapeutic.  And if you have expensive, gas-guzzling cars, cash those in too. 

Finally, tell him to keep in mind the job could be worse - he could be a lawyer...

[Goldielocks]

I'm someone who hated his job, but I decided to take and downsize to more relaxed job that I work 100% from home, at my kitchen table, drinking a cup of coffee.   Doing so will add about 3-4 years to my FI date... but ultimately I decided that it's not enough just to reach FI - I want to get there in one piece.  I don't want to be a worn-out dish rag that has all this money... my 2 cents.

I would love to work from home, where do you find legit work from home jobs

Three ways to find / get work at home jobs that I know of (other than self employment)

1) Jobs with extensive travel (e.g., more than 4 out of 5 days) usually will hire if you are close to an airport, and work from home or any city is ok.  Usually advertised without a city in the job search engine.  Some jobs like city health inspector have you out of the office on site so much that you can take your reports home to work on them, only coming in a acouple of times a week.
2)  Transform current job after 2 years into partial work from home.   Only good for certain types of office work.   Recruiters and HR  telephone interview support are examples.   Wholesaler / salesmen that make deals with clients in other cities over the phone, etc.
3) Work for a company that has high office costs and routine work.   Here, the local internet / phone companies have call support positions that can work from home, but you need to log / track all your tickets and meet target goals.   Works in bigger cities with horrible commutes, more employers are open to the idea.     I also had a client that had a small manufacturing business,that had run out of space,  and had one product as "package at home".   The women would pick up supplies once a week, and package the product at home, and return it later for piece rate pay.    Think of the final touches to package things you see on etsy...  The piece rate for these jobs are either way too high or way too low.   This only works where you go in person to pickup / drop off materials -- have a "look me in the eye" relationship with your employer.  Small towns, etc.

[Spondulix]

To save you some money on therapy or the career coach, I'll share some advice that I paid for: if you're unhappy with something in life, the three things you try to change are job, location, or relationship. Eventually, the problem will catch up to you.

So, I wouldn't go in circles asking if he should quit the job, and instead zero in on what it is about the job that he hates. Is he bored? Is it the people, stress, routine, etc? Is he ready to retire, and it's getting harder to focus at work? Or, is it more a reflection of what he's been doing over his career?

That may help you identify if it's situational or a side effect of upcoming FIRE, and find a better solution to the problem. If he's tired of working, he may hate every job. If he's bored of the work or people, maybe it is the right time to look for another job. Or, if you're that close to FIRE, how about switching to part time and going FIRE a year later?

A couple people have brought up health and mental health, and I think that is something serious to consider. Depression and heart attacks take months (or years) to recover... At the end of the day, is it more important to have that extra money in the bank, or a spouse who is healthy and engaged with family for those years in the meantime?

[Spondulix]

He has been complaining about his job for over a year, looking at job postings, and grumbling that he doesn't want to do them either (basically exchanging one job he dislikes for another one that he is ambivalent at best).  He can't get up the energy to bother applying for other jobs that he is sure he will dislike. 

It is frustrating as the spouse, because he wants to complain and vent, and is crabby and tired sometimes after work, yet he won't DO anything about it. 

OP, my husband has this exact issue as well.  This is partially why I stumbled across and joined this forum.  He was miserable at his last job and didn't like his boss' management techniques so I encouraged him to move.  He interviewed at one job and took it.  He's now been there for 4.3 years, and in my armchair diagnosis, he's been depressed for 3 of them.  We got married in 2012 and a friend of mine even told me then that I should threaten to call of the wedding unless he agreed to counseling (by himself or couples). 

So what MayDay says in particular resonates - he says he has no energy to apply elsewhere so he's stuck in a terrible rut.  He says all the time that *this time* he means it and he is going to go.  Yet he thinks he's not suited for any job beyond the type he's doing (which is ridiculous, he's got fantastic qualifications), and he won't take a single step to look elsewhere after something that fell in his lap didn't pan out (he could have gotten a job there if he had wanted it).  This means he complains ALL THE TIME, which is really unbelievably hard for a spouse.  (Oddly he actually recognizes that his friends may not want to hear about it every time that he sees them, so he's started censoring himself there, but he doesn't recognize or acknowledge the toll this takes on me, or do anything to help himself to help me.  And this is without even considering putting my life dreams on hold - I'm 35, he's 39, and we aren't able to think about having kids yet because he doesn't think we have the time or money for them, and I'm afraid we're running out of time.)  He refuses to see a counselor, refuses to see a doctor and refuses to accept that drugs could potentially help him.

So my advice is: Be supportive, but keep yourself afloat - don't let yourself drown trying to help him.  Focus on the things you can change and not the things you can't (his job).  Create your own
support group.

P.S. This week has been worse than normal.

CommonCents and MayDay I completely relate (I had the 100 response post recently about the spouse who made little money but refused to look for another job). The thing that's really striking me right now is that I was getting called out for being an unsupportive wife yet the OP here is getting complimented for being helpful. I think it's important to recognize that we ALL probably started like the OP, but over time these situations can turn exhausting, resentful, frustrating, and draining. When your spouse is struggling, it can be extremely one-sided in terms of being a support giver (vs a support receiver). CommonCents said it well above: "I realized that MY highest goal is actually taking care of me, not him."

CommonCents - I'm sorry you're having a tough week, and I just want to say to both you and MayDay that you are helpful spouses. It can be incredibly difficult to support someone who is stuck in a rut, where it seems like nothing you say or do changes it. We aren't married to difficult people - we're married to people going through difficult times.

I agree 1000% with CommonCents advice above that it's not just about helping your spouse solve a problem - it's about deciding what you need, as well. We can't fight their depression, boredom, or feelings of fear or insecurity for them.

[Schaefer Light]

One quick point that I don't think anyone brought up...

Do you think you could find a career coach/councelor for your husband to talk to?  It may be helpful to have an objective third party to help find potential career options out there that he has yet to explore.  Also, even if he's not fully qualified at this time for a different field or role, working to gain experience or taking classes towards making a career move may help give him a light at the end of the tunnel that he can focus his energy on.

In this type of situation, I wonder if it makes more sense to see a career coach or a psychologist.  I'm wondering because I'm trying to make this decision myself.

[neo von retorch]

I apologize in advance for contributing without reading ALL of the comments. I just wanted to say that satisfaction in your job isn't necessarily a function of "what you do." You can hate one accounting job and love another. There has been lots of research performed to determine this... scroll to the bottom of this article for the "12 questions" he can ask himself about his current job (and his future employers) to hopefully hone in a specific employment situation that suits him and his (physiological) needs.

http://www.fastcompany.com/43419/marcus-buckingham-thinks-your-boss-has-attitude-problem

[BrooklineBiker]

Hi,
I just want to say I sympathize totally. I am 47 and totally burned out. I am saddled with student debt (still) and my wife and I share a fat mortgage in an expensive US city. We have nothing in the bank. We have 2 little kids. I love the outdoors. Due to health problems and poor early career choices, I am likely stuck working indoors at a desk until retirement.  I am looking into home based jobs. I am a writer so those jobs seem to be out there. I think an accountant might be able to find similar jobs. IT and insurance seem to have the most openings for at home professional work. We are looking to sell our pricey house and move to a less expensive town and rent. We have cut our lifestyles back. Depending on what is irritating your husband, I recommend a similar approach. Where do children fit in your future plans? I think as humans having children is always something sitting in your subconscious?

[ChrisCambria]

Hi everyone!
it is good to read your stories, it is similar to what I went through in the last two years. i hope you take it as a serious problem and get out a bit better than i did. here is my story in a few words:
i hated my job as an architect so much that i was grumpy all the time. except weekends and vacations were great :) but when i realised that my job made me unhappy and decided to quit my relationship was already damaged too much. half a year after i left the office we broke up, including moving out of our appartment. luckily we had no children!
so PLEASE! take it as a serious problem when there is a part in your life that makes you feel uncomfortable and influences your mood and interaction in other parts of your life. its not worth it to bite through a couple of years of unhappy corporate life, there is too much to loose - it is always possible to find something different, any change offers the possibility of improvements.
hope all of you find a way to enjoy life or at least leave all the grumpyness at work so that it doesn't influences your private life!
good luck to all from europe!