Author Topic: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours  (Read 5276 times)

TravelJunkyQC

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Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« on: October 27, 2015, 01:33:07 PM »
The past
I have been at my present work for 1,5 years (2 years in February). I was hired as a maternity leave replacement (Editor-in-chief of one of the best selling cooking magazine in the province). They liked me, so when my replacement ended, they offered me a full-time position as Content Manager for our 3 decorating magazines. This position however, is under the present Editor-in-chief, and as such, was a step down in terms of responsibility. For the past almost-year, I've been slowly losing my mind with boredom... I'm pretty much one step above an assistant (I don't blame the Editor-in-chief... this is the kind of help she needed, and the higher-ups didn't want to let me go so this is where they stuck me). Throughout the past year, I have voiced my concerns regarding my job, my lack of satisfaction, the fact that I can do more, etc. I have also taken it upon myself to create new projects such as streamlining inter-departmental operations between the production and sales departments. My salary has been 41,600$ up to 42,325$ after a yearly indexation.

The now
Today, the General Director called me into her office to offer me a new position of Manager of distribution and digital production. This is a brand new position, reporting to the Director of Distribution, but having a lot of collaboration with the President of the company, as well as the General Director. I will basically act as market analyst, external communications coordinator, and developing the new digital production (a department that doesn't exist but that they are slowly realizing MUST exist because print is on its way out). As I see it, I will be the Distribution Director's right hand woman (he's great at getting contracts, horrible at basic management), as well as the President's strategic analyst so she can stop making decisions based on emotions and instead make them with numbers. For these new rather lofty responsibilities, they are offering me the joke-of-a-salary (as if mine wasn't already) of 45,000$. I have compiled a spreadsheet of comparables for all of Canada, as well as Stat Can's Cost of living index (to show that a national median is equivalent to our province's median).

My question is three-fold (please note that this is an atmosphere with 85% women, all of whom are rather easily scared. My determination and boldness is often a turn-off. I don't say this to be sexist, but rather to express that any negotiation will be deemed aggressive on my part).
1. If the median salary for the job they are offering me, with my experience, is at the low end, 67,000$, knowing my present salary, how much is a reasonable amount to ask for.
2. Is showing them the statistics too aggressive on my part? Should I just say them verbally and assume they know these things?
3. The fact that I charge 40$ an hour USD for my abilities for my freelance consulting (that they don't know about), is NOT something I should divulge, am I correct in assuming this?

If it matters, I am no where near FI, but I have an FU fund equating to two to three years of living at my present level. I still don't want to get fired though.

redbird

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 01:46:37 PM »
If they're only offering $45k, I doubt $67k is in the cards for you, even if you should be getting paid more. However, I think asking for more than $45k is a very fair thing to do. That sounds like a very large step up in responsibility for a less than $3k/year raise. Assuming you work ~40 hours a week, then that raise is approximately a $1.29 per hour raise. That's not very much.

I would ask for more. If you can't get more, I don't see how it's worth taking the job. Especially because I wouldn't be surprised if a job with that many responsibilities will make you be in the office for more hours per week.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 01:53:52 PM »
Thank-you for your reply.

Indeed, I work 40 hours a week, so the raise is minimal. I am very aware that 67,000$ will never happen at this present company. However, I'm thinking of asking 55,000$, and accepting 50,000$. At the very least, the job responsibilities and title could be a good jumping off point for going elsewhere (something I've been trying to do for a year now) - I don't want my salary to be too low, because it will be a hinderance when I DO end up leaving.

In terms of accepting the job or not, I'm torn between my boredom at my present position, and holding my ground in asking for what I deserve. Knowing I have nothing waiting for me if I don't accept it (apart from random freelance)... is something to consider.

AZDude

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 02:06:03 PM »
Asking for $55K seems fair, although this is a fairly important step-up. These kinds of promotions dont happen often and its much easier to move laterally than to move up. Negotiate as best you can and take the job. Look for a lateral move to another company in about a year, with a more market-rate salary.

mm1970

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2015, 02:50:27 PM »
I would for sure show them your statistics.  Absolutely.  No question.  Aggressive or not.  (That has worked for people that I've counseled in the past, all men though).

Ask for $67k.  Gives you more wiggle room.

Jack

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 03:15:47 PM »
First of all, it's a brand new position, so there's no company "established salary" for it -- which is to your benefit.

Second, they need the position whether it's you that fills it or not, and they'll never be able to fill it unless they pay market wages (at least if they want somebody competent).

Third, you have options (FU money or even just keeping your current title & responsibilities), and that gives you bargaining power too.

All of these things add up to "you should negotiate aggressively," but especially that first one does. You have a golden opportunity to educate them on what this new position is and now much its worth, rather than accept their half-baked delusions about it.

I don't know what "median salary... at the low end" of $67K actually means, but you should ask for at least that (but be willing to accept $50K, if you'd be happy with it).

(Your freelance rate is mostly irrelevant, though.)

Trede

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2015, 03:19:34 PM »
Keeping in mind my own experience is in a male-dominated industry and company, my thoughts on your situation are these:

1. How confident are you in your statistics on average salary?  How comparable were the comparables, were they in the same industry or similarly performing industries, same size companies, etc.?  There can be a really wide spread with internet-available statistics, so worth it to doublecheck whether if they start asking detailed questions, if the answers will help or hurt your position.

2. That said, my best raise ever was 25% when I took on a promotion to a significantly higher role.  So, that is one benchmark in the real world.  It would get you to a number in the $50Ks.  But, I never stated a number in my situation.  When the job was pitched to me, I said something like "You've offered me a great opportunity, but you haven't given me the figures that support my taking on such greater responsibilities."  Or something like that.

3. Since they've already pitched you their number, in theory that sets their negotiating expectation, but I would definitely push back, but in a positive way.  Express outright enthusiasm for the role, how excited you would be to help the company develop and grow their digital product(s), how great it will be to drive success in these new areas of responsibility, any specific ideas you have for how you can uniquely contribute/lead/whatever in the role, etc.  They already realize your value, so double down on that, then pitch your own line (like in my #2) that signals you want to negotiate.  Bring in your salary research if you remain confident in it.  If $67K is what would make you happy, then go there.  Don't start at less than $55K in my opinion.

4. If they don't budge off $45K, they probably know you aren't going to be happy if you asked for $67K. Your only other fallback position is to request a salary review after six months in the job, stating that you will prove your worth and would expect an honest reevaluation of the compensation at that time.

mandy_2002

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2015, 04:23:09 PM »
I would for sure show them your statistics.  Absolutely.  No question.  Aggressive or not.  (That has worked for people that I've counseled in the past, all men though).

Ask for $67k.  Gives you more wiggle room.

I would even say that bringing your statistics would be the least aggressive way to ask for more money.  Request with no backing - aggressive.  Request with documentation of market rates - informed.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 05:24:20 PM »
I would for sure show them your statistics.  Absolutely.  No question.  Aggressive or not.  (That has worked for people that I've counseled in the past, all men though).

Ask for $67k.  Gives you more wiggle room.

I would even say that bringing your statistics would be the least aggressive way to ask for more money.  Request with no backing - aggressive.  Request with documentation of market rates - informed.

+1

I am a woman and worked in magazine publishing... do not sell yourself short and do not go into this thinking that asking for what you are actually worth is "too much." Women are always afraid to negotiate and it ends up with them accepting less than they are worth because of some fear of being seen as bitchy or demanding.

Go in there with your statistics, be pleasant and enthusiastic, but sell yourself as a freaking bargain at $67K for what they are wanting. I wouldn't accept less than $60 for what they want you to do! As others have stated, this is a completely new position and it will entail quite a bit of oversight and work for you... and you deserve to ask and receive a salary that is equivalent to that work.

Good luck!!


lhamo

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 08:23:37 PM »
I would share your research/numbers, and see how they respond.  If they immediately jump from 45 to 50k, then aim to get as close to 60k as you can.  55 would be a good compromise at that point, but if you start saying you will accept 55 you probably are never going to get it. 

It might also work to talk about regular performance bonuses or raises tied to concrete performance targets.  So if digital circulation grows 50% in the first 6 months or 1 year, you get a pre-determined bonus of 20% of base, or a raise of 10-15%.  That way your personal success/growth is tied to the growth/success of the company -- if they do well, you do better, but if you aren't meeting targets then they don't need to raise your compensation.

Good luck and let us know how it goes -- sounds like an exciting opportunity!

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 07:07:44 AM »
Thanks for all the insight!

Unfortunately, no dice on much movement on their part. I explained the numbers, my worth to the company, etc. She responded that what they were offering me was the salary of a starting team leader in the company (even though what they're offering me doesn't have any subordinates at the moment). She asked me what I was going to ask for, when I saw that there was no wiggle room, I asked for 55K. She said it would be impossible, even 5-year team leaders don't make that. She said that if I was asking for an extra 1K she might have been able to convince the higher-ups, but not really anything more. I then asked if at least my two years of experience within the company could be taken into account, so it would be 45K + 2 years experience («raises» here are around the rate of inflation, so it might account for a 2 to 4 percent increase of that). She said she'd see what she could do.

She was very understanding in my analysis, but explained that since we're a private company (president makes all the decisions), and the only magazine publishing company outside of Montréal, the president has all the power in the world to keep the salary scale low yet still attract solid employees. My suggestion of reevaluating my salary after 6 months was also rejected as «that's not how the president does things, once you're in the ladder, you can't skip a rung unless you change positions - and even then, your rung is predetermined».

My hope now is to kick ass at this position, put it on my resume, and make a lateral move elsewhere. Hopefully, this on my resume will make it easier. I could also move back to the states and pretty much double my salary overnight... Something to consider.

Thanks for your help everyone, better luck next time for me!

Easye418

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 10:17:56 AM »
Thanks for all the insight!

Unfortunately, no dice on much movement on their part. I explained the numbers, my worth to the company, etc. She responded that what they were offering me was the salary of a starting team leader in the company (even though what they're offering me doesn't have any subordinates at the moment). She asked me what I was going to ask for, when I saw that there was no wiggle room, I asked for 55K. She said it would be impossible, even 5-year team leaders don't make that. She said that if I was asking for an extra 1K she might have been able to convince the higher-ups, but not really anything more. I then asked if at least my two years of experience within the company could be taken into account, so it would be 45K + 2 years experience («raises» here are around the rate of inflation, so it might account for a 2 to 4 percent increase of that). She said she'd see what she could do.


My hope now is to kick ass at this position, put it on my resume, and make a lateral move elsewhere. Hopefully, this on my resume will make it easier. I could also move back to the states and pretty much double my salary overnight... Something to consider.

Thanks for your help everyone, better luck next time for me!

The bolded statement should be translated as "Take the job or don't take the job; I will forget we had this conversation in 6 months". 

I took my current job with the promise of "they are working on bonus structure now and you will get promoted within 12-18 months". 

Asked about my bonus within 3 months after proving myself.... Head of HR told my boss "No way".....

Guess who is missing out on a max bonus this year for contributing at a higher level than the managers?  This guy.

I've been with the company 7 months now...I am "locked in" until March on a $10k signing bonus, if I don't get promoted by middle of 2016, I will gladly job hop to another company. 

Thankfully I work in a highly desirable field.  (CPG Sales Finance)

saywhatnot

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 10:32:43 AM »
Are they replacing your role? This might be your only option for a job within the company.


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FrugalFan

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 10:39:31 AM »
Sorry it didn't work out. Hopefully she will come up with a little something, and I think you are correct that the new position may help you move elsewhere. Both sound really cool to me, though! Outside my work expertise but in line with my interests.

James

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 10:41:53 AM »
My hope now is to kick ass at this position, put it on my resume, and make a lateral move elsewhere. Hopefully, this on my resume will make it easier. I could also move back to the states and pretty much double my salary overnight... Something to consider.

Thanks for your help everyone, better luck next time for me!


I think that is a solid plan, enjoy the new job and new responsibility, do great at it, and continually keep your eyes out for the next opening elsewhere. They aren't giving you any promises, you don't owe them anything. Do the job until something better comes along, and then do that. They get the low wage and you get the experience and leg up for your career. If they want long term loyalty they need to pay for it, but I think this sounds like a good move long run for you.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 11:57:50 AM »
Are they replacing your role? This might be your only option for a job within the company.

They're redistributing my work among other people on my current team, and keeping a 3-month-contract employee for the longterm (p.s. none of the employees who will be getting more work will be getting raises - because clearly they can always hire other people to do the job. You know the movie the Devil Wears Prada? Yeah... think about that sort of atmosphere). So not really. I could have stayed in my current position had I wanted to. In terms of professional experience though, this will be a better move.

End result: She was able to bargain with the president for a 3% raise of the initial offer of 45,000$, putting me at 46,350$ (a 9% raise from what I have right now) - important tidbit that I was told: «as with all employees hired after September 1st, you won't be eligible for yearly raises/indexation in April... but you get 6 extra months at a higher salary!». It's an absolute joke in terms of fair-market pay, but the norm within the company. I was told that if the position turned out to be a lot bigger then what they thought, they would reevaluate. I was tempted to say, «thanks, but I don't believe in Santa Clause», but instead I told them fine, I'll come back to them in a few months.

Next step: kick-ass and then get the f*** out.

snuggler

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 03:24:13 PM »
Nice! Congrats on getting her to budge a little!

Hey It's Me

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2015, 06:04:20 AM »
Talk about penny wise and pound foolish. I don't understand how companies fail to take into account that under paying you will provide incentive for you to jump ship as soon as you're offered a higher paying role. Even if they are the only game in town, you have to consider that the cost of recruiting, training and ramping up someone new is worth the extra $5K you would have settled for.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 02:05:49 PM by Ad_Man_Mustache »

Proud Foot

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Re: Job offer within my company - need to respond within 24 hours
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2015, 12:21:49 PM »

End result: She was able to bargain with the president for a 3% raise of the initial offer of 45,000$, putting me at 46,350$ (a 9% raise from what I have right now) - important tidbit that I was told: «as with all employees hired after September 1st, you won't be eligible for yearly raises/indexation in April... but you get 6 extra months at a higher salary!». It's an absolute joke in terms of fair-market pay, but the norm within the company.

I would have argued for at least a partial raise.  I completely understand the yearly raises and not giving them to employees hired less than a year, but you have already been an employee of the company and have merely changed position.

Quote
Next step: kick-ass and then get the f*** out.

Excellent plan. Good luck!