First-time salary negotiation and career path

[8oLibPu2FrLf7lEHfQ]

A year ago I decided to take steps to becoming an actuary.  I plan to sit for the first two of the actuarial exams this summer or so.

In December 2019 I picked up a remote gig of working for an act sci textbook company.  It has been going very well and the CEO reached out to inquire about a permanent job.  Not an offer; just an inquiry.  In the interview he made clear:  if you take the position, then you will probably not be able to get into industry.  So my earning potential would be capped.

The position would require relocation to an affluent neighborhood with a cost of living 3-4 times where I am at now.  He wants someone for the long-term.

In the interview he asked for my salary requirements.  I held off.  He said the typical starting salary is about that of an entry-level actuary position, so I guess about $60,000.  But he also said that he still wants to interview a few more people.

I prefer to be in industry making more, but I am aware that I am older (46) and it will be difficult to gain an entry-level position in industry.  I should be able to gauge that better when I pass some actuarial exams.  But he wants a decision soon.

What do you think?

I like working with the people at this company.  I feel pretty sure I could be successful to some extent there and even author my own books for them.  But a big motivator at my age is the potential money of being in industry.  Although it is competitive to gain a foothold, it is in high demand as you rise through the ranks and pass exams.

[mozar]

What does it mean to work in industry? How is that different from your remote gig? It doesn't really makes sense to me that the CEO is asking you to move to a col that is 4 times as expensive for a capped salary of 60k. If there was potential for more maybe. I say leave this job to someone else who doesn't know how to do a cost benefit analysis.

[8oLibPu2FrLf7lEHfQ]

Working for this textbook company would be considered working in "actuarial education".  Working in industry means working for an insurance company, for example, providing pricing, risk analysis, valuation, reserving, and using probability and statistical analysis on the insurance/claims data.  So no experience or skills learned at the textbook company would really match up with skills needed to work at the insurance company.

Where I live now rent is about $500 for a studio and I am 3-4 miles from everything I need.  In this affluent town of the textbook company rent is $1500-$2000 and there seem to be hardly any studios.

The starting salary should be about $60,000 (plus money for a mover which they would pay directly).  He said that raises would happen as I added more value to the company.  I doubt it would ever get to be over six figures.  In industry within five years I would be at six figures or very close, and eventually would surpass that to closer to $150,00 or so.

Note again that I can negotiate the salary since he asked what my salary requirements were.

[acepedro45]

Hello, credentialed actuary here. I also got into it as a second career.

First question - you've been looking to get into the field for a year but you're just now starting to plan for the first two exams? Try those exams for Pete's sake, especially as a math major. The fees are cheap and if you aren't anywhere close to passing, you've gotten valuable information about your suitability for this career.

Second question - From snooping through your past posts on this forum, aren't you pretty much dead in the water right now career-wise? This opportunity will more than double your salary and get you at least headed in the actuarial direction. I'd accept the offer while continuing to study and pass the first few exams, especially if you like the people and the work at the textbook company. Nothing prevents you from moving on to an entry-level position a year from now if you can land one.

You're right that the entry level is totally saturated with applicants now, so getting an initial toehold is quite difficult.

If your username is truly a random string of characters, you may have the correct mindset and disposition for actuarial work.

ETA: There's a whole forum just for aspiring actuaries at Actuarial Outpost you may wish to canvass too.

[8oLibPu2FrLf7lEHfQ]

Hello, acepedro45.  Thank you for responding.

A year ago I picked up study manuals for P and FM.  But then I quickly decided to take act sci classes at my local university.  I have taken courses in probability, theory of interest, loss models, and statistics.  I am really prepared for both exams.  I put sitting for them off because I wanted to take the courses first.  The math part is easy (I don't find what's required deep at all); I am currently working on my speed.  I will probably sit for P in July and FM in August.  I know Excel, R, and some Python.

Yes, my current career is dead in the water, so to speak, but I have increased my income.  I created a course, increased my rates, and expanded to higher lever courses.  Some debt is gone, but not all.

Prior to my focus on actuarial science I had been deeply serious about math.  I had been engaged with research as an undergraduate, I took graduate classes, and did some independent study.  Some notes I wrote in math (spanning 100 pages) and some problems I wrote for students (typeset) is what got me this gig at the textbook company.

Again, my fear is that once I accept this position, I will not be able to switch into industry which was my goal.  The CEO made this very clear (the whole company is designed to help actuaries succeed through texts, study manuals, and online quizzing).

It doesn't help that I have never negotiated a salary before.  I thought I would get an offer first before salary talk.  It seems he wants a figure and then will still interview others.

Yes, my username is a string of random characters :)

[acepedro45]

A year ago I picked up study manuals for P and FM.  But then I quickly decided to take act sci classes at my local university.  I have taken courses in probability, theory of interest, loss models, and statistics.  I am really prepared for both exams.  I put sitting for them off because I wanted to take the courses first.  The math part is easy (I don't find what's required deep at all); I am currently working on my speed.  I will probably sit for P in July and FM in August.  I know Excel, R, and some Python.

As a point of light criticism, taking actuarial science classes was probably a mistake. Passing exams is the best way to make yourself stand out as an entry level candidate, not coursework. But the past is the past and you're correctly focused on the future.

Yeah, I figured you were working for one of the actuarial test prep companies from your original post. With your interest in tutoring and coaching, you might find it to be a great fit. It's basically the same skillset as tutoring, only with much higher pay.

I'm still not seeing why accepting this position prevents you from continuing an entry level job search. With zero exams passed, you are at least 2 months from even sending a resume out.

I guess my advice is to take the job offer since it's a huge step forward for you, Obviously try to negotiate as much salary as you can. I think $65-70k is definitely realistic if it's comparable to a good entry-level offer, and I doubt they will want to prolong their job search over 5-10k a year if they have somebody they like already in hand.

Medium term, pass the first two exams. Evaluate how much you like the new gig, and then decide how aggressively you want to pursue an entry level position at an insurance company or consultancy or if you want to at all.