Author Topic: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?  (Read 18631 times)

P938LVR

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How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« on: January 08, 2015, 09:53:04 PM »
I'm just curious as to how much you plan to live on each year when you retire? Is this amount per person or does it include your spouse or family? What are your plans once you retire?


P938LVR

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 10:05:01 PM »
Thanks for that but I would like to hear from more people.

MDM

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 10:17:47 PM »
Thanks for that but I would like to hear from more people.
No problem - the suggestion is "see also", not "see instead". ;)

Good luck!

MsRichLife

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 10:33:19 PM »
Note: We are in Australia (i.e. High COL)

We plan on FIRE within 18 months or so and are working on a minimum budget of $35K for three of us (two adults and a toddler). That's with a paid off house.

In reality, after running cFIREsim with all different scenarios, our worst case scenario allows us to spend $50K p.a. with 100% chance of 'success'. So our budget of $35K is conservative.

If all is going well, we'll spend more on travel and making our home more of a sustainable homestead. Best case scenario enables us to spend $80K p.a. with a good chance we'll leave our son $Millions.

I guess time will tell how it all works out.

innerscorecard

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 10:41:44 PM »
About $25,000-$30,000 in today's dollars for my spouse and I. Perhaps more for children, perhaps not. Children probably aren't in the end as expensive as non-Mustachian media says. It will be a very abundant and luxurious life.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 11:23:01 PM »
Going to try and live on about $20,000 for a married couple no kids.  No house, homemade RV we built from scratch.   We plan to spend a lot of time in the wilderness hiking and hunting.   No rental properties or other mustachian cash flow things but we have saved up $1.3M to $1.4M (lower figure is if we fire sale the house in a couple of weeks vs trying to get market+ value for it which could take a year)

After about 6 years we are going to sell the RV, motorcycles and buy a used but serviceable ~40 foot blue water sailboat and sail around the world.   Budget might go up or stay the same, but likely we will need $100K for the boat and new rigging.  Assuming we still feel in good health (currently age 45).  I sure hope we can as I love sailing.

aspiringnomad

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 07:45:34 AM »
$50K p/a for my spouse and me. That allows for a good sized buffer since we plan to move at least once during FIRE and to travel as much as we want.

EDSMedS

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 07:51:26 AM »
Planning on ~$40K/yr expenses, though we know that is stupid high!  We will consider ourselves FIREd when we have ~$600K (15X), but we also have a pension of ~$18K, and plans to never stop generating income on some level.

boarder42

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2015, 08:27:27 AM »
55k for my family once we retire in 9 years.  need to be able to travel freely etc.

obviously not a "true" mustachian but we use this site for the advice and concept of ER rather than 100% following everything

GardenFun

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2015, 08:40:41 AM »
Planning for $50K, but will realistically need around $40K.  DH is conservative with money but not completely frugal.  Plus we are engineers so the whole "add 25% safety factor/rule of thumb" is ingrained in our head.   

The harder question is what to do after FIRE.  I really don't think DH will completely FIRE.  He likes engineering.  But FIRE funds will enable us to move anywhere with decent COL and for him to find a job that appeals to his creativity, regardless of the money.  Or we can stay put and he can take a less-stressful position at his current employer (good employer so this is definitely possible).  So needless to say, we have the money aspect understood and planned out, but are still sorting through the "then what?" second question. 

KMMK

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2015, 09:12:06 AM »
I'm planning for about $20,000 including taxes for one half of a couple, at least  6 months of the year in Canada, but will know better as I get closer to FIRE.

ysette9

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2015, 10:34:39 AM »
This is a tough question for me and numbers that I pour over again and again. A lot of it will depend on whether we will have a paid off house in 10 years when I think we can retire or not. We live in one of the most expensive areas in the country (and love it here!) so our eventual house purchase will have a big impact on when/how we can retire. I keep that idea front and foremost with my husband as we look at the meager real estate listings out there.

Right now my best guess is around $50-60k/year, knowing there is a lot of wiggle room in there. We also just had a baby so the spending is in flux for the time being.

Cassie

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2015, 10:42:44 AM »
We have been retired almost 3 years. The first year we spent $40,000 for 2.  The 2nd year $67,000 due to home remodeling & travel.  This year more of the same for above expenses so $100,000.  Home is now completely done so will travel more while we can.  However, we both work p.t. consulting so don't take any $ from our savings to do this.  Our pensions are the first $40,000.   As we age I know the traveling will slow down (we are at age 60 now

Bateaux

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2015, 10:16:36 PM »
Roughly 2 million.  Looking to do a 3% withdrawl rate. We expect to be there in 3 to 5 years.

iamlindoro

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2015, 11:17:01 PM »
Looking at about $50K a year from retirement accounts, and potentially $20K a year in cash flow from real estate.  Pretty good start on the retirement accounts, started building the real estate portfolio late last year.  It's going to be a more than adequate amount of money per year; we're building in a substantial margin because we'd like to be able to travel internationally half-time... at least until we decide we don't want to do that any more.

rmendpara

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2015, 11:35:09 PM »
If I was retiring with a spouse today, I'd like to have around 40k in spending power (excluding housing). Depending on whether I eventually own or rent, that could add another 25k in spending.

So, on a 3-4% withdrawal rate on 65k total spending, 1.6-2.2 million so 1.9 as a midpoint in today's dollars?

nora

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2015, 05:11:33 AM »
65k per year net for the two of us and 1-5 children. Shooting for 2.4m invested for this. Hoping to retire in six years if all goes well.

soccerluvof4

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2015, 05:54:16 AM »
If i cashed out now at 4% be about 90k but with 4 kids (2 in HS) i want to get them gone , keep building our stash and at least have access to more on a 3% swr with the 2 left at home, wouldn't need it but would like to have it. But not sure if i can put up with what i am currently doing any longer. So we will see

Dawn

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2015, 06:13:33 AM »
We will spend @ $35k for a family of 4. Trying to get our homestead going for a veggie garden and hope to build an off grid home. We will live off of rental income.

b4u2

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 06:27:53 AM »
Our FIRE is so far away (14 years?) still so I haven't really tried to come up with a real number. I know what we want to do and have a rough plan.

For the most part in the early years of retirement (FIRE) we want to buy an RV toy hauler and travel to where it's not cold. We currently have a our main house and one rental property that we intend to sell when we retire. Part of the money will go towards the rv and the rest into an account to possibly purchase a very small house when we decide to stop traveling. Current value of house 1 150k current value of house 2 114k. Cost of rv toy hauler today is approx 150k.

Gas budget would be about 500 per month for rv and motorcycle. Lot rents vary depending on if we travel to campgrounds or rv lots. Possibly 900 per month but not really sure.

No idea what health care will cost us in 14 years.

Currently estimating 40k-50k a year is my best guess.

Roots&Wings

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2015, 06:49:22 AM »
Currently planning for $30k/yr, $1m stashe, 3% withdrawal rate. 

Healthcare is my biggest FIRE budget concern (budgeting $8.5k/yr based on subsidized annual premiums + max out of pocket expenses for bronze plans available in my state).

morning owl

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2015, 06:50:52 AM »
I would say we'd need $60k per year for the two of us. The house is paid for, so this would be for basic expenses plus some wiggle room for travel and house repairs.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2015, 07:08:01 AM »
Some of these budgets seem a bit large for typical Mustachians.

A paid for house and a couple needing $50,000 to $60,000?

Remember that in retirement you will not pay SS or Medicare tax, won't have a 401K or IRA deduction, and if you are clever, won't pay much federal or state tax.

This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2015, 07:17:11 AM »
Currently planning for $30k/yr, $1m stashe, 3% withdrawal rate. 

Healthcare is my biggest FIRE budget concern (budgeting $8.5k/yr based on subsidized annual premiums + max out of pocket expenses for bronze plans available in my state).

Not sure of your age or asset distribution, but it is possible it would be cheaper for you to purchase a silver plan and receive cost sharing.   For a younger single person, say age 40, with a MAGI of $20,000 a subsidized silver plan would have a monthly premium of around $84 a month.  The out of pocket costs are subsidized also on the silver plans (not the bronze plans) and would be no more than $2250 per year.

So if you can live on about $20,000 or have some of your money in already taxed investments (maturing CDs or stocks with little gains), you could end up spending no more than about $3000 a year max on health insurance.

This would bring your SWR down to around 2.5% instead of 3% and give you exactly the same money for living expenses.  (your original budget was $21,500 for living and $8,500 for medical)

begood

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2015, 07:19:47 AM »
If I was retiring with a spouse today, I'd like to have around 40k in spending power (excluding housing). Depending on whether I eventually own or rent, that could add another 25k in spending.

So, on a 3-4% withdrawal rate on 65k total spending, 1.6-2.2 million so 1.9 as a midpoint in today's dollars?

This is pretty much our plan too! Housing will depend on location, and location will depend on whether we follow our one kid wherever she goes. ;)

Roots&Wings

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2015, 07:51:47 AM »
Currently planning for $30k/yr, $1m stashe, 3% withdrawal rate. 

Healthcare is my biggest FIRE budget concern (budgeting $8.5k/yr based on subsidized annual premiums + max out of pocket expenses for bronze plans available in my state).

Not sure of your age or asset distribution, but it is possible it would be cheaper for you to purchase a silver plan and receive cost sharing.   For a younger single person, say age 40, with a MAGI of $20,000 a subsidized silver plan would have a monthly premium of around $84 a month.  The out of pocket costs are subsidized also on the silver plans (not the bronze plans) and would be no more than $2250 per year.

So if you can live on about $20,000 or have some of your money in already taxed investments (maturing CDs or stocks with little gains), you could end up spending no more than about $3000 a year max on health insurance.

This would bring your SWR down to around 2.5% instead of 3% and give you exactly the same money for living expenses.  (your original budget was $21,500 for living and $8,500 for medical)

Thanks!  Unsure if the pricing changed recently or what I was looking at previously, but that is an amazing difference...the Silver plan numbers are much better (~$3k/yr) than bronze ($~7k/yr) for a 40 year old with my expected retirement income. 

I'm probably 6-10 years out from FIRE (currently 32), and will be interesting to see how healthcare costs play out in the meantime.

Miss Prim

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2015, 07:56:05 AM »
Some of these budgets seem a bit large for typical Mustachians.

A paid for house and a couple needing $50,000 to $60,000?

Remember that in retirement you will not pay SS or Medicare tax, won't have a 401K or IRA deduction, and if you are clever, won't pay much federal or state tax.

This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

Yes, $60k for me and hubby and we are planning to take trips to Europe and spend 3 months renting a place down in Florida!  We are very mustachian otherwise and these are none negotiable.

                                                                         Miss Prim

Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2015, 10:04:40 AM »
Some of these budgets seem a bit large for typical Mustachians.

A paid for house and a couple needing $50,000 to $60,000?

Remember that in retirement you will not pay SS or Medicare tax, won't have a 401K or IRA deduction, and if you are clever, won't pay much federal or state tax.

This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

Yes, $60k for me and hubby and we are planning to take trips to Europe and spend 3 months renting a place down in Florida!  We are very mustachian otherwise and these are none negotiable.

                                                                         Miss Prim

Excellent!  Then no problem with that at all.  You worked for your money and should get to enjoy it.

We also plan to vary our spending.   We are going to live like tramps in the woods camping and hiking for months at a stretch then rent a $3000 small house in the Florida Keys and sail our small boat for a few months at a stretch.  Budget might be $20k one year and $70k the next year, then $20k again.

NinetyFour

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2015, 10:24:02 AM »
Very interesting to see these responses.

I plan to retire at age 56 with $700,000.  My mortgage balance will still be about $175,000.  That means I would have $525,000 free and clear, which yields a yearly sum of $21,000 to cover the rest of my expenses.  That's pretty luxurious for me.  (Single, no kids.)

Exflyboy

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2015, 11:17:08 AM »
I think some of these responses show why it is important to get an accurate estimate of what your real living expenses are today. Until you know what your baseline is your really grasping at straws.

Also as Roland pointed out your income will be much closer to what your actual expenses will be because the tax burden will be much lower.

For us we will have a full year of expenses compiled in Feb (after I cut and slashed everything) and I suspect (dearly hope) that it will be well less that $30k with a paid off house... that includes taking a 3 week camping road trip this Summer.

When we have that baseline then we can add any extras we need such as paying for our own HC, trips abroad etc etc.


morning owl

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2015, 12:04:51 PM »
Some of these budgets seem a bit large for typical Mustachians.

A paid for house and a couple needing $50,000 to $60,000?

Remember that in retirement you will not pay SS or Medicare tax, won't have a 401K or IRA deduction, and if you are clever, won't pay much federal or state tax.

This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

I know it sounds like a lot, and we could do with a lot less if we lived in a low COL area. But we live in an expensive Canadian city, so the most basic expenses (property taxes, utilities, insurance, transportation, and food) come to about 40k. I'm adding buffer and a healthy travel / home repair budget (we live in an old house).

Just starting out here on this forum, so maybe eventually I can figure out how to cut this number back...

Cassie

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2015, 12:24:40 PM »
My mom loved to travel-more then us but as she aged she wanted to go less & less. So at 60 we want to do a lot of it while we can & want to.  Her expenses went down considerably once she got sick of traveling & am assuming the same for us.  We also spent a lot of $ fixing up our very old house that we got very cheap.  We won't need anything for a long time.  WE also had to buy 2 lightly used cars this year since both of our cars at 14yo gave up the ghost.


Earthling

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2015, 12:41:33 PM »
Roland:

We (my wife and I; no kids) would also like to sail around the world when we are FIRE.

(1) Can you post your budget (actual or planned), including boat acquisition and maintenance costs? I can't make $20K-$70K per annum work. More details would be appreciated as we'd like to follow your path. (And if you have a journal, my apologies.)

(2) Can you also post a source for your premium data for a subsidized Silver plan? Cutting and pasting a screen shot from the relevant market (federal or state) would be helpful. I don't see those numbers in my area (including the federal exchange and my state exchange), but perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

AlexK

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2015, 12:48:24 PM »
I'm planning about $18k/yr for just myself. I have $660k saved and paid for house so the numbers say I'm good to go any time now. My wife doesn't want to quite her day job and we have separate finances (she saves about 50% of her income so I'm not complaining).

I like to be productive and make money so I think it's likely I will start some kind of small business after retirement. But first I want to see the world and go on some adventures. I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life but I figure being exposed to as many new things as possible will fire me up for something.

webguy

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2015, 01:26:40 PM »
I have no idea yet what we'll be doing with our lives when we're FI so it's hard to predict. I'd love to do something completely different and take up some outdoor sports and that may add to our budget. I'm going to keep on stashing money till I get burnt out working and then see how much we have. I'd estimate we'd spend around $50k a year with the mortgage included, or about $30k when the mortgage is gone.

iamlindoro

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2015, 01:54:00 PM »
This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

I think it's a little bit of both for me.  I acknowledge the relative luxuriousness of our retirement budget, but it's all about compromise.  My girlfriend/future wife is very attached to home and has never lived elsewhere.  Unfortunately "home" is the SF Bay Area.  Part of getting her onboard with retiring early, following a budget, and cutting out a lot of her luxury spending has been showing her that it's possible, on her average salary, to RE and at least have the option to live here.  I personally would be happy with moving someplace very low cost of living.  That may yet happen, and may change our numbers a little or a lot.

We also want to travel about half time, and to have the option of traveling wherever we want.

So anyway, you're spot on in that it's a luxurious budget, but I'm not sure it's fair to call it not mustachian, since we still aim to retire early, and limit our consumption and lifestyle only to what makes us happy.  I think that's Mustachianism at its best.

Tyler

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2015, 01:58:39 PM »
Not sure of your age or asset distribution, but it is possible it would be cheaper for you to purchase a silver plan and receive cost sharing.   For a younger single person, say age 40, with a MAGI of $20,000 a subsidized silver plan would have a monthly premium of around $84 a month.  The out of pocket costs are subsidized also on the silver plans (not the bronze plans) and would be no more than $2250 per year.

+1.

Silver plans are much better deals than bronze plans at low incomes.  The silver plan for my wife and I (late 30's in TX) is actually less expensive for the both of us (both in premium and OoP max) than the one you quoted.  The result is a great deal for frugal retirees.

Also, FWIW, when I first started reading about financial independence (only a few years ago), my assumption about how much money I needed per year was about 4x what it is today in reality.  Once I started walking the walk, my whole perspective changed. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 02:07:53 PM by Tyler »

Earthling

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2015, 02:31:16 PM »
This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

I think it's a little bit of both for me.  I acknowledge the relative luxuriousness of our retirement budget, but it's all about compromise.  My girlfriend/future wife is very attached to home and has never lived elsewhere.  Unfortunately "home" is the SF Bay Area.  Part of getting her onboard with retiring early, following a budget, and cutting out a lot of her luxury spending has been showing her that it's possible, on her average salary, to RE and at least have the option to live here.  I personally would be happy with moving someplace very low cost of living.  That may yet happen, and may change our numbers a little or a lot.

We also want to travel about half time, and to have the option of traveling wherever we want.

So anyway, you're spot on in that it's a luxurious budget, but I'm not sure it's fair to call it not mustachian, since we still aim to retire early, and limit our consumption and lifestyle only to what makes us happy.  I think that's Mustachianism at its best.

+1

Claims here without supporting evidence are puffery. And calling people out as non-frugal is also unwarranted as everybody is in a different situation. So best wishes to you. You are frugal and don't owe anybody an explanation.

So I still call BS on the poster claiming to "camp in the woods" X months out of the year, then sailing the world the rest of the time -- and doing so on $20K-$70K.

And anybody else have a budget that swings by more than 200%?

A boat is a hole in the water you pour money in to.

The only people I know who have boats -- let alone those who claim said vessel is capable of sailing the seven seas -- are wealthy, and certainly not frugal.

If the following question appeared on a quiz, I'd expect the vast majority of frugal people to answer "no": "If you want to save money and be frugal, would you buy a boat?"

So I await the budget for the poster claiming the above on a budget of $20K-$70K.

There is too much undocumented puffery here. We're all basically frugal. Folks claiming others are over-spending need to document their own situations explicitly so we can all conduct a peer review.

MMMdude

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2015, 02:45:35 PM »
I plan to draw approx 36k per year and aiming for about 1.3mil.  Im at 800k now so getting fairly close....about five more years to go. Might decide to ditch full time work sooner and go part time

Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2015, 03:54:21 PM »
A boat is a hole in the water you pour money in to.

The only people I know who have boats -- let alone those who claim said vessel is capable of sailing the seven seas -- are wealthy, and certainly not frugal.

If the following question appeared on a quiz, I'd expect the vast majority of frugal people to answer "no": "If you want to save money and be frugal, would you buy a boat?"

So I await the budget for the poster claiming the above on a budget of $20K-$70K.

There is too much undocumented puffery here. We're all basically frugal. Folks claiming others are over-spending need to document their own situations explicitly so we can all conduct a peer review.

Camping on BLM land in a RV we scratch built from steel and aluminum.  We are selling our house and so will have no mortgage, real estate tax, maintenance.  We will have maintenance on the truck and RV, but the RV is built better than most houses with a continuous aluminum roof with no holes or seams to caulk.  2 inches of polyiso flame resistant insulation, 1100 watts of solar panels, 100 gallons of water and 100 gallons of propane.  It also has a workshop/garage that houses our two dual sport motorcycles and it pulls our 17 foot Montgomery sailboat.  The base truck is a 2006 Isuzu
NRR diesel with lowish miles.  Fairly reliable and not too bad to fix.

A typical month camping might be (we are married, no kids):

$300 fuel
$400 food
$300 health insurance
$50 phone/internet (when near a tower)
$100 vehicle insurance
$200 vehicle maintenance/registration (should be no more than $2400 a year)
$200 hotel/B&B stay (probably 2 or 3 nights a month)
$100 state campground (going to try to stay on National Forest/BLM but occasionally will stay in parks
$200 (misc. camping supplies, toiletries, books)

So about $1850 a month or $22,200 a year.  Maybe a bit more if we dry store our sailboat at a cheap mini-storage yard (no point in taking sailboat in the middle of the desert or up a mountain).  Certainly under $25,000 a year.


Now, for sailing around the world, I have read a lot of books and we have taken blue water cruising classes, but I do not have actual budget figures yet.  I have priced good used boats in the $50k range and would figure another $50k for new rigging and gear.  There are plenty of couples who sail on much less than a $70k budget, but I just threw that figure out there.   I will let you know in 5 or 6 years when we are finished touring the states and buy a sailboat  :-)

Here is a pic of our camper, and a pic of the construction progress on our garage pod that mounts behind the camper where the motorcycles currently sit on the flatbed.  The garage has a ramp door and built in workbench because I want to still work on odd projects on the road.




Earthling

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2015, 04:02:09 PM »
Roland:

Thank you.

As to your camping budget, you said "might be" so I don't know what to make of that.

Plus, if you are on BLM lands, our tax dollars are collectively subsidizing your lifestyle.

When you have your sailing budget in 5 or 6 years, let us know.

And I'm aware of no BLM lands near any coast.

Until then, I'd be modest about calling out your fellow frugal travelers as blowing budgets on European travels. We're all on the same path.



Roland of Gilead

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2015, 04:14:52 PM »
I wasn't really calling them out.  I totally respect someone saying they want to spend $60k a year in retirement if they want to take trips and such.   I said we plan on spending $70k or so when sailing (a guess).

We haven't started camping yet, so I can't say anything but "might be" for our budget.

I do understand that tax dollars are subsidizing our lifestyle.   The past several years we have been paying around $60,000 in federal tax while living on about $30,000 (saving over $120,000 a year in 401K, IRA, HSA and everywhere else I can tuck it).  I figure we have prepaid for our future lifestyle subsidy by taxpayers.  :-)

You don't have to sail a 17 foot boat near the coast, a large lake will do.  We have sailed Lake Chelan in WA state many times and there are BLM lands all around there.   Our boat has wheels.


DMoney

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2015, 06:27:51 PM »
still a ways off but we're building our models assuming our annual costs will be around $100-120k/year in retirement

Edited to add:  family of 5
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 07:13:37 PM by DMoney »

boarder42

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2015, 06:36:37 PM »
This can turn a $60,000 income with a paid off house into a similar economic situation as a couple earning $90,000 or more.

Maybe a lot of you plan on taking trips to Europe every year or something...

I think it's a little bit of both for me.  I acknowledge the relative luxuriousness of our retirement budget, but it's all about compromise.  My girlfriend/future wife is very attached to home and has never lived elsewhere.  Unfortunately "home" is the SF Bay Area.  Part of getting her onboard with retiring early, following a budget, and cutting out a lot of her luxury spending has been showing her that it's possible, on her average salary, to RE and at least have the option to live here.  I personally would be happy with moving someplace very low cost of living.  That may yet happen, and may change our numbers a little or a lot.

We also want to travel about half time, and to have the option of traveling wherever we want.

So anyway, you're spot on in that it's a luxurious budget, but I'm not sure it's fair to call it not mustachian, since we still aim to retire early, and limit our consumption and lifestyle only to what makes us happy.  I think that's Mustachianism at its best.

+1

Claims here without supporting evidence are puffery. And calling people out as non-frugal is also unwarranted as everybody is in a different situation. So best wishes to you. You are frugal and don't owe anybody an explanation.

So I still call BS on the poster claiming to "camp in the woods" X months out of the year, then sailing the world the rest of the time -- and doing so on $20K-$70K.

And anybody else have a budget that swings by more than 200%?

A boat is a hole in the water you pour money in to.

The only people I know who have boats -- let alone those who claim said vessel is capable of sailing the seven seas -- are wealthy, and certainly not frugal.

If the following question appeared on a quiz, I'd expect the vast majority of frugal people to answer "no": "If you want to save money and be frugal, would you buy a boat?"

So I await the budget for the poster claiming the above on a budget of $20K-$70K.

There is too much undocumented puffery here. We're all basically frugal. Folks claiming others are over-spending need to document their own situations explicitly so we can all conduct a peer review.

I own a boat.  I enjoy my boat and use it a ton yes it costs money to maintain and use. Not everyone here plans to live under a rock. Boating if done properly can be enjoyable and you can do it relatively cheaply. If there are any golfers here I bet i spend less annually on boating than they do golfing. Your take while correct for 99% of people who use a boat as a status symbol or achievement may be correct but like anything you do you can do it cheap and affordably. I'm an avid wakeboarder and choose to spend a bit of money on my hobby. But I paid 14k for a boat I can sell today for 21k. I bought it a year ago. What investment do you have that could have turned a 50% profit in the last year.  Now I'm not selling it but just saying it can be done.

Metta

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2015, 06:53:59 PM »
I'm just curious as to how much you plan to live on each year when you retire? Is this amount per person or does it include your spouse or family? What are your plans once you retire?

We estimate our tight budget at $36,000 (if we have to tighten our belts because the market crashes) and our firehose-of-wasteful-spending budget as $55,000 a year. We figure a normal year will hover between $45,00 and $50,000. This is for two of us. We plan to cuddle into the magnificent high desert in New Mexico and write our little hearts out while feasting on homemade gourmet food. Occasionally we will emerge from our hermitage to hike.

travelbug

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2015, 06:58:55 PM »
We will be between 50-60k pa. This will vary as we are Australian and will be travelling full time. We also have 2 young children.

our income will be more than this but when we live in Asia, cost will be lower than when we live in France/UK.

Our plans to be nomadic mean we will sell our home and invest that money too.

TB

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2015, 07:34:55 PM »

We estimate our tight budget at $36,000 (if we have to tighten our belts because the market crashes) and our firehose-of-wasteful-spending budget as $55,000 a year. We figure a normal year will hover between $45,00 and $50,000. This is for two of us. We plan to cuddle into the magnificent high desert in New Mexico and write our little hearts out while feasting on homemade gourmet food. Occasionally we will emerge from our hermitage to hike.

This sounds FANTASTIC. Can I join you? :)

Zikoris

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2015, 10:16:20 PM »
We assume current spending will continue - $25K/year, split between two people. However, the reality is it will probably be lower since we're looking at some major lifestyle changes, including extended stays in low cost of living areas like eastern Europe. We also plan on doing some volunteer work in exchange for board from time to time. Basically just enjoying life and doing slow travel!

Zikoris

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Re: How much will you retire on when you FIRE?
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2015, 11:05:47 PM »
And keep in mind: even just 3 years ago, how much would you have budgeted for future cellphone use?  And if that's not absurd enough for you, how much would you have budgeted for future cell phone use 16 years ago? :)

Three years ago I assumed I'd hold steady at $30-$40/month for a cell phone plan. Fortunately, I spend less than that - $22.40/month.

16 years ago I would not have future-budgeted for a cell phone, since they were uncommon, but I would have budgeted for a land line at around $25-$30/month. Now I just have a cell phone, at a comparable price, so that worked out well.